PDA

View Full Version : Sick of it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


afcman
09-21-2006, 09:38 AM
Man, I am SO SICK of the people (the fans) getting blamed for anything and everything. We should NOT be in this situation. It's not the fans fault that the team is in the position it's in. There are people getting PAID BIG MONEY to make the key decisions for the team. And after all this time we're still complaining about the SAME F'in problems.

Don't give me this "you're not a true fan if...." Blah Blah Blah. My time and money are mine and I'm not gonna follow the team if it's obvious the team is not making adjustments to fix the same OLD problems.

I'm still a Texans fan and think and hope that it will improve. If I stop feeling that way then I'll put the Texans on hold. I'm a football fan first and foremost. Love it. College and the NFL. There's plenty to keep me excited about.

For example, if I had lived in Detroit all this time (gag!) there's no way I'd still be following the Lions. Why? What's the freaking point? You want to spend your money on the Lions? Go right ahead. (Although they seem to be making some headway.) But for the most part I'd see a better game at the local high school then following say, the Raiders or Titans.

OK, I feel a little better now. :whip:

Frills
09-21-2006, 09:40 AM
We now have a description of the Bandwagon

cuppacoffee
09-21-2006, 09:58 AM
Man, I am SO SICK of the people (the fans) getting blamed for anything and everything. We should NOT be in this situation. It's not the fans fault that the team is in the position it's in. There are people getting PAID BIG MONEY to make the key decisions for the team. And after all this time we're still complaining about the SAME F'in problems.

Don't give me this "you're not a true fan if...." Blah Blah Blah. My time and money are mine and I'm not gonna follow the team if it's obvious the team is not making adjustments to fix the same OLD problems.

I'm still a Texans fan and think and hope that it will improve. If I stop feeling that way then I'll put the Texans on hold. I'm a football fan first and foremost. Love it. College and the NFL. There's plenty to keep me excited about.

For example, if I had lived in Detroit all this time (gag!) there's no way I'd still be following the Lions. Why? What's the freaking point? You want to spend your money on the Lions? Go right ahead. (Although they seem to be making some headway.) But for the most part I'd see a better game at the local high school then following say, the Raiders or Titans.

OK, I feel a little better now. :whip:

:hmmm: You are in west texas?

Odessa Permian H.S. usually has a good football team.

You're welcome.

:coffee:

TommyS
09-21-2006, 10:05 AM
Man, I am SO SICK of the people (the fans) getting blamed for anything and everything. We should NOT be in this situation. It's not the fans fault that the team is in the position it's in. There are people getting PAID BIG MONEY to make the key decisions for the team. And after all this time we're still complaining about the SAME F'in problems.



sorry, who's blaming the fans exactly? ? ?

Cjeremy635
09-21-2006, 10:09 AM
Man, I am SO SICK of the people (the fans) getting blamed for anything and everything. We should NOT be in this situation. It's not the fans fault that the team is in the position it's in. There are people getting PAID BIG MONEY to make the key decisions for the team. And after all this time we're still complaining about the SAME F'in problems.

Don't give me this "you're not a true fan if...." Blah Blah Blah. My time and money are mine and I'm not gonna follow the team if it's obvious the team is not making adjustments to fix the same OLD problems.

I'm still a Texans fan and think and hope that it will improve. If I stop feeling that way then I'll put the Texans on hold. I'm a football fan first and foremost. Love it. College and the NFL. There's plenty to keep me excited about.

For example, if I had lived in Detroit all this time (gag!) there's no way I'd still be following the Lions. Why? What's the freaking point? You want to spend your money on the Lions? Go right ahead. (Although they seem to be making some headway.) But for the most part I'd see a better game at the local high school then following say, the Raiders or Titans.

OK, I feel a little better now. :whip:

This comment is what tends to turn people off the most. I know you feel the need to vent, but there are teams that have sucked for decades and I don't really feel like we will be in that boat. I see an organization that put their faith in someone who royally screwed up the system here. I believe Kubiak has a plan and it will take some time to implement it the way he wants to. Be patient AFCman...times will get better. :wild:

noxiousdog
09-21-2006, 10:10 AM
There are people getting PAID BIG MONEY to make the key decisions for the team.

There are people getting PAID BIG MONEY to beat our team too.

If it causes you so much pain, why do you keep exposing yourself to it?

TommyS
09-21-2006, 10:19 AM
I'm not gonna follow the team if it's obvious the team is not making adjustments to fix the same OLD problems.

:

new GM
new HC
new Off C
new Def C
new assistant HC/OL
new LB coach
new WR coach
returning only 26 (aprox i might have miscounted) of last years team

what more do people want?!!!!!!!

overnight we become the Indy offense and the Pitt D? GIVE IT A ********** CHANCE PEOPLE!!!

texflex513
09-21-2006, 10:21 AM
Just think of how bad it would be to have mike brown for an owner a guy who continually hired yes men within the org to coach the bengals and led them into a 10-12 year ditch of losing and horrible draft picks and just recently (3 years) hired a real head coach in Marvin Lewis...We just hire our first REAL head coach in kubiak give him a year or 2 and we will be the team to beat in the afc.

Cjeremy635
09-21-2006, 10:23 AM
Just think of how bad it would be to have mike brown for an owner a guy who continually hired yes men within the org to coach the bengals and led them into a 10-12 year ditch of losing and horrible draft picks and just recently (3 years) hired a real head coach in Marvin Lewis...We just hire our first REAL head coach in kubiak give him a year or 2 and we will be the team to beat in the afc.

Preach on brother..preach on! :ok: :homer:

SheTexan
09-21-2006, 10:24 AM
Man, I am SO SICK of the people (the fans) getting blamed for anything and everything. We should NOT be in this situation. It's not the fans fault that the team is in the position it's in. There are people getting PAID BIG MONEY to make the key decisions for the team. And after all this time we're still complaining about the SAME F'in problems.

Don't give me this "you're not a true fan if...." Blah Blah Blah. My time and money are mine and I'm not gonna follow the team if it's obvious the team is not making adjustments to fix the same OLD problems.

I'm still a Texans fan and think and hope that it will improve. If I stop feeling that way then I'll put the Texans on hold. I'm a football fan first and foremost. Love it. College and the NFL. There's plenty to keep me excited about.

For example, if I had lived in Detroit all this time (gag!) there's no way I'd still be following the Lions. Why? What's the freaking point? You want to spend your money on the Lions? Go right ahead. (Although they seem to be making some headway.) But for the most part I'd see a better game at the local high school then following say, the Raiders or Titans.

OK, I feel a little better now. :whip:

There is NO instant gratification in the game of football!!!! You have to suffer through the bad times to get to the good! Either hang in there, or don't. Your choice!

cuppacoffee
09-21-2006, 10:33 AM
new GM
new HC
new Off C
new Def C
new assistant HC/OL
new LB coach
new WR coach
returning only 26 (aprox i might have miscounted) of last years team

what more do people want?!!!!!!!

overnight we become the Indy offense and the Pitt D? GIVE IT A ********** CHANCE PEOPLE!!!

I knew we changed a lot of players, but that's half our team isn't it?

I ranted a lot last year about having at least average players that were receiving less that average coaching.

Seems I over estimated some of our players.... slightly..:shades:

But I stand on my opinion of the coaching staff.

At least the ones that we didn't retain..:D

:coffee:

GP
09-21-2006, 10:34 AM
Yeah, AFCman...that was pretty weak.

I feel your pain, but the whole point of following a football team is to suffer WITH them through the tough times so that when the good times come...you're smiling bigger than everybody else because the reward is so much sweeter.

I have no desire to become a Yankees fan because they basically PURCHASE a team every year. I am loving the fact that they cannot get over the top with all their All-Stars.

The entire reason for sports and for following a team is to "bond" with a team you enjoy to watch or to be affiliated with, and to then go through the same agony they go through, and to also enjoy the victories WITH them.

No point in being a die hard fan of a team if you cannot understand that, in the case of the NFL, you have ONE champion out of 32 teams every year. We've had how many Super Bowls? And there's how many teams in the NFL? Man, you have to be good AND lucky to win major sports championships.

It doesn't all ride on a coach or an owner. Granted, they can help or hurt...but they alone are not sinking our ship. It's a culimnation of everything working together (or not working together).

Sorry, bro. You need to re-evaluate and come to what Regis calls a "final decision."

I ain't going anywhere, that's for sure.

Cjeremy635
09-21-2006, 10:36 AM
Yeah, AFCman...that was pretty weak.

I feel your pain, but the whole point of following a football team is to suffer WITH them through the tough times so that when the good times come...you're smiling bigger than everybody else because the reward is so much sweeter.

I have no desire to become a Yankees fan because they basically PURCHASE a team every year. I am loving the fact that they cannot get over the top with all their All-Stars.

The entire reason for sports and for following a team is to "bond" with a team you enjoy to watch or to be affiliated with, and to then go through the same agony they go through, and to also enjoy the victories WITH them.

No point in being a die hard fan of a team if you cannot understand that, in the case of the NFL, you have ONE champion out of 32 teams every year. We've had how many Super Bowls? And there's how many teams in the NFL? Man, you have to be good AND lucky to win major sports championships.

It doesn't all ride on a coach or an owner. Granted, they can help or hurt...but they alone are not sinking our ship. It's a culimnation of everything working together (or not working together).

Sorry, bro. You need to re-evaluate and come to what Regis calls a "final decision."

I ain't going anywhere, that's for sure.


Well said gpshafer....:cool:

NJ Texan
09-21-2006, 10:39 AM
I'm still hanging on the Texans, because 2 games doesn't a season make. .

FILO_girl
09-21-2006, 10:44 AM
Man, I am SO SICK of the people (the fans) getting blamed for anything and everything. We should NOT be in this situation. It's not the fans fault that the team is in the position it's in. There are people getting PAID BIG MONEY to make the key decisions for the team. And after all this time we're still complaining about the SAME F'in problems.

Don't give me this "you're not a true fan if...." Blah Blah Blah. My time and money are mine and I'm not gonna follow the team if it's obvious the team is not making adjustments to fix the same OLD problems.

I'm still a Texans fan and think and hope that it will improve. If I stop feeling that way then I'll put the Texans on hold. I'm a football fan first and foremost. Love it. College and the NFL. There's plenty to keep me excited about.

For example, if I had lived in Detroit all this time (gag!) there's no way I'd still be following the Lions. Why? What's the freaking point? You want to spend your money on the Lions? Go right ahead. (Although they seem to be making some headway.) But for the most part I'd see a better game at the local high school then following say, the Raiders or Titans.

OK, I feel a little better now. :whip:

I think we just witnessed a fan breakdown.
Harsh stuff, dude.

A little time of reflection on what team you truly love is in order. Walk the dog, take some Cymbalta and it will make you smile again (it just did that in a commercial on TV). Slowly, take small sips of Battle Red koolaid. If this upsets your delicate system, its time to shove off the Texans' train.

I do understand your rant, I really do but your words come across very badly. Even Grandma didn't offer assistance, and she is a nurse! I don't quite grasp what you are rambling about in terms of us fans taking it on the chin (blame). Take a deep breath and a sizeable break from the boards. Seriously.

infantrycak
09-21-2006, 10:46 AM
Seems I over estimated some of our players.... slightly..:shades:

Combination of talent and not fitting the system. Good example would be Moran Norris. Excellent blocking FB but the staff ditched him to get a FB who would catch 6 passes in 2 games.

Mr. White
09-21-2006, 10:52 AM
Don't give me this "you're not a true fan if...." Blah Blah Blah. My time and money are mine and I'm not gonna follow the team if it's obvious the team is not making adjustments to fix the same OLD problems.


I won't pull the true fan card. If you're complaining about a team losing that just changed their coaching, their GM and half their roster...then you're just stating the obvious. And wasting your time.

Blake
09-21-2006, 11:06 AM
"The Sweet is never as Sweet, without the Sour..."

afcman
09-21-2006, 11:17 AM
I HAVE NOT given up on the team. Not at all. I just had to vent because some people were complaining about the fans.

I feel your pain, but the whole point of following a football team is to suffer WITH them through the tough times so that when the good times come...you're smiling bigger than everybody else because the reward is so much sweeter.

I agree. As I've said before, I'm looking forward to next years draft.

And when we beat Philly and the Jags in their stadium I will scream for joy from my roof. :redtowel:

Double Barrel
09-21-2006, 11:35 AM
fa·nat·ic [fuh-nat-ik]
n.
A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause. / person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics [or sports]

Through thick and thin, man. Devotion to the cause is unwavering if you're a fanatic. This doesn't mean you can't question the cause or be critical of it, but it does mean that you have an undying devotion irregardless of timeframe.

Some make the commitment, others don't. But it's all good...just a personal choice. :texflag:

Bear
09-21-2006, 11:54 AM
We now have a description of the Bandwagon

Exactly.

I may not have the same excitement or expectations if they continue their losing ways but I'll never, ever put them "on hold".

A TV show tought me a long time ago that you take the good, you take the bad. You take them both and there you have the facts of life :homer:

Go Texans!

eriadoc
09-21-2006, 01:15 PM
I HAVE NOT given up on the team. Not at all. I just had to vent because some people were complaining about the fans.

I agree. As I've said before, I'm looking forward to next years draft.

Some fans need to be complained about, IMO. We are two games into a rebuilding process and we already have "fans" that are declaring rookies a bust, starting to pile on the brand new coaching staff, and writing off the season, looking forward to next year's draft. Vegas' over/under on Texans' wins this season was 5.5 and that's about right. If you came in expecting more, you were probably deluding yourself. We all hope for more - personally, I laid $20 on the Texans hitting the over when I was in Vegas in July. But to honestly expect more than 5-6 wins is unrealistic and setting yourself up for failure. JMO, YMMV.

Htown34s
09-21-2006, 03:01 PM
I'm always a fan, but I'm much less inclined to spend money on tickets if we stink it up 4 or 5 years straight. McNair will see this if there are enough who feel the same. If not, we could be the Cubs of the NFL, fans who show up no matter the outcome.

I have to say, going into the 5th year of O-Line problems this is getting very, very old.

afcman
09-21-2006, 04:39 PM
I'm always a fan, but I'm much less inclined to spend money on tickets if we stink it up 4 or 5 years straight. McNair will see this if there are enough who feel the same. If not, we could be the Cubs of the NFL, fans who show up no matter the outcome.

I have to say, going into the 5th year of O-Line problems this is getting very, very old.
__________________

exactly. It's not like we JUST STARTED rebuilding. I don't want to be CONSTANTLY in the rebuild mode where we always say, "next year". We need to make better choices and start winning. And I think we are starting to show promise, but time will tell.

Tale Gator
09-21-2006, 04:48 PM
The 14th exclamation point in the thread title makes me think that you really are sick of it. :crying: :francis:

afcman
09-21-2006, 04:50 PM
The 14th exclamation point in the thread title makes me think that you really are sick of it.

Well, I thought 15 was a bit much. I was ranting. :crying:

kcwilson
09-21-2006, 05:00 PM
And that boys, is why the good lord made decaf.

And I was just thinking... doesn't 'rebuilt' insinuate that at one point, we were 'built'?

I'd like to think that this is like Logan Airport in Boston... always under construction.

afcman
09-21-2006, 05:04 PM
And that boys, is why the good lord made decaf.

And I was just thinking... doesn't 'rebuilt' insinuate that at one point, we were 'built'?

I'd like to think that this is like Logan Airport in Boston... always under construction.
__________________

Ha Ha!! I'm doing the decaf as I type. :mario:

And yeah, when were we built? :shades:

The Pencil Neck
09-21-2006, 05:13 PM
Ha Ha!! I'm doing the decaf as I type. :mario:

And yeah, when were we built? :shades:


Last year, we were built. Unfortunately, it wasn't built to spec and the whole thing got blown away like a house of cards in a hurricane.

So, now we're rebuilding.

FSUBulldog
09-21-2006, 05:33 PM
I don't get it. Something must happen between TC and Week 2 that causes the clock to magically speed up or something. Just a month or so ago the general consensus from those who frequent this MB was that Kubiak & Co. was given a season to get the kinks worked out with an eye on 2007 as the year that we start to turn the corner. Even the habitual naysayers in the group were giving Carr, et. al. six or so games before judgement was passed on their viability. So then what happens? Week TWO rolls around and we are ready to throw DC, Mario, the entire defense, our def. coordinator, etc. under the bus.

The only thing that I can pin this on is the immediate gratification theory that revolves around our constant need for information about our Texans. Message Boards, blogs, talk radio, etc. have turned us all into junkies with little patience to wait for Kubiak to turn this franchise around. What used to take months/years has now been reduced to weeks. It's sad, really... It's the only thing I can come up with to explain the bi-polar rationale of some who visit this place.

If you are really being punished by this season, go find a happy place, unplug your radio, TV and computer and take a little break from information overload. It will probably soothe your nerves a tad... :yikes:

Htown34s
09-21-2006, 05:44 PM
Another thing to keep in mind is that we all knew we were going to have a tought start and that we could be 0-5 or worse to start the year.

Too bad, it would have been nice to have gotten some games against easier opponents at the first of the year to build momentum. As it is now, we're going to have to hope that by mid year the guys are too down on themselves to show promise in the last half of the season.

HomeBred_Texan
09-21-2006, 05:56 PM
We now have a description of the Bandwagon

I just heard a thump...

Was that him jumping off? Just watch though, once the Texans get really good and start kicking the colts tails, he will be right back on...

Porky
09-21-2006, 05:57 PM
Although I am solidly in the die hard catagory, I can definately relate to Afcman's pain. Let's face it. We stunk, we stink, we stank. Look, we are in year 5. By year four of their expansion, the lowly Browns - let me stop and say this again, the B-R-O-W-N-S, the team that was run by a bunch of nimrods top to bottom, had made the playoffs. In year 4, we were 2-14.

Someone said be patient, we are just starting the rebuilding. The key to that word is "re". To rebuild, that would suggest one has built, torn down, and then rebuilt. When we looked into custom home builders, I don't remember walking in to the showroom, and the salesman telling us his company would be glad to rebuild us a new home.

It's frustrating, because I think much of this starts right at the top. As much as I like Mr. Mcnair as a person, I think he has continually made the same stupid mistakes over and over. If one does not learn from his mistakes, he is doomed to repeat them. There has only been one constant throughout the history of the team, and it's the man at the top. I think if we are looking for someone to blame, it's not the fans, and this man needs to look in the mirror.

Htown34s
09-21-2006, 05:57 PM
I just heard a thump...

Was that him jumping off? Just watch though, once the Texans get really good and start kicking the colts tails, he will be right back on...

I don't think you could ever call someone who has followed this particular team for the last 5 years a bandwagon fan...

Double Barrel
09-21-2006, 06:00 PM
I don't get it. Something must happen between TC and Week 2 that causes the clock to magically speed up or something.

No magic involved. We played two great football teams who have been good for years. A lot of teams will probably suffer the same fate at the hands of the Colts and Eagles this year.

With regards to TC to now, pre-season wins are fool's gold. We were playing scrubs vs. scrubs, players who are marginal and probably won't make the team. A 3-1 pre-season record and $5 will get you a vanilla latte at Starbucks. Pre-season wins mean absolutely nothing.

Some folks are prone to extremist thinking, and set unrealistic expectations based upon this thought process. It's just the way it is in Fanatic Kingdom.

It's frustrating, because I think much of this starts right at the top. As much as I like Mr. Mcnair as a person, I think he has continually made the same stupid mistakes over and over. If one does not learn from his mistakes, he is doomed to repeat them. There has only been one constant throughout the history of the team, and it's the man at the top. I think if we are looking for someone to blame, it's not the fans, and this man needs to look in the mirror.

What mistake(s) would that be? :confused:

He fired the entire FO after a disastrous season. He has restructured the FO from a rule-by-committee under Capers to a buck-stops-here mentality with Kubiak.

He's not a football mind. He is an owner that hires people to make those decisions. Do you really want an owner that makes football decisions, ala Dan Snider?

TexansSeminole
09-21-2006, 06:13 PM
What he said ^^^^

whotex8
09-21-2006, 06:22 PM
Man, I am SO SICK of the people (the fans) getting blamed

No offense to you AFC, but if you picture Nancy Grace yelling this at the top of her lungs and pounding her fists.........it is quite a hilarious visual.
At least to me it is?

bigtex77
09-21-2006, 08:10 PM
sorry, who's blaming the fans exactly? ? ?


No kidding, I thought Carr was getting blamed for everything. :hides:

Porky
09-21-2006, 08:16 PM
No magic involved. We played two great football teams who have been good for years. A lot of teams will probably suffer the same fate at the hands of the Colts and Eagles this year.

With regards to TC to now, pre-season wins are fool's gold. We were playing scrubs vs. scrubs, players who are marginal and probably won't make the team. A 3-1 pre-season record and $5 will get you a vanilla latte at Starbucks. Pre-season wins mean absolutely nothing.

Some folks are prone to extremist thinking, and set unrealistic expectations based upon this thought process. It's just the way it is in Fanatic Kingdom.



What mistake(s) would that be? :confused:

He fired the entire FO after a disastrous season. He has restructured the FO from a rule-by-committee under Capers to a buck-stops-here mentality with Kubiak.

He's not a football mind. He is an owner that hires people to make those decisions. Do you really want an owner that makes football decisions, ala Dan Snider?

Let's start right at the beginning. He hired Casserly. First big mistake. Second mistake was hiring Capers. Third mistake was hiring Palmer. Fourth mistake was the mistakes in the original expansion draft. Fifth mistake was not insisting that they build a semblance of an oline before throwing Carr to the wolves. Sixth mistake was not forcing Capers to insist on professional schemes. Seventh mistake was not telling Capers to chunk his assistants when it was painfully obvious they didn't know their heads from their aholes. Eighth mistake was listening to Casserly too much, and ignoring his instincts. Need I go on? Let's bring us up to April 2006. Mcnoob...I mean Mcnair states that Reggie won't help us beat the Colts. We have to have a pass rush, so he agrees with taking Mario. Fast forward to Sept 17th. How did that one work out for you Bob?:challenge

Texans86
09-21-2006, 08:28 PM
Let's start right at the beginning. He hired Casserly. First big mistake. Second mistake was hiring Capers. Third mistake was hiring Palmer. Fourth mistake was the mistakes in the original expansion draft. Fifth mistake was not insisting that they build a semblance of an oline before throwing Carr to the wolves. Sixth mistake was not forcing Capers to insist on professional schemes. Seventh mistake was not telling Capers to chunk his assistants when it was painfully obvious they didn't know their heads from their aholes. Eighth mistake was listening to Casserly too much, and ignoring his instincts. Need I go on? Let's bring us up to April 2006. Mcnoob...I mean Mcnair states that Reggie won't help us beat the Colts. We have to have a pass rush, so he agrees with taking Mario. Fast forward to Sept 17th. How did that one work out for you Bob?:challenge

I really wish I had people to go around telling me everything I've done wrong in my life. He made educated decisions, and they worked for three years. We had a meltdown last year, and Mr. McNair did what he had to do. I would not have fired my coach after going 7-9 in the third season, and I would not fire him in the middle of the season. He is not a football man, other than the fact that he loves the sport, and he doesn't dabble in football affairs. I have to say that's the way I like my owners. Leave football to those who know football. I don't remember anyone predicting the complete crash last season. Hopes were high, and then something happened that threw all of us for a loop. Mr. McNair did an amazing thing to bring this team to Houston, and is doing the best he can to put a product that everyone enjoys on the field.

Please keep your negative comments about a man who cares so much for this city to yourself. We discuss football here. We don't insult others, especially not the one who is resposible for us even having a team to critique. Complain about what a player does, or second guess a play call, but Mr. McNair is one of the best owners in the league, and I am sure glad he's owner of my team.

Porky
09-21-2006, 08:44 PM
He's one of the nicest, classiest owners in the league. He is nowhere near one of the top owners in the league. He simply hasn't learned from his mistakes. Some of us actually thought we had a pretty disasterous offseason before last year, and thought we were headed in the wrong direction. And, last time I looked it's a free country. I'll state my opinions as I see fit. I don't need to be told otherwise.

Cruuuuuuuz
09-22-2006, 12:20 AM
afcman....
you personify why i left Houston.

Oh SHyt! I had to edit when i found out afcman doesnt live in Houston!
Wow! All these Loyal Texans fans are sticking with em!
FINALLY! Maybe i should move back!

afcman....get lost.

Nbkan
09-22-2006, 01:06 AM
I bleed battle red koolaid and I don't plan on ever going anywhere else.

I love this team for good or bad...and the good days are coming and I will be around to see them.

HOU-TEX
09-22-2006, 09:16 AM
I left you rep on this one Porky. I agree completely! Mr. Mcnair is an upstanding guy...but has made some poor "agreements" or "decisions" or "concessions" or whatever anyone wants to call them.

T86, you stated "Leave the football to those who know football..." Who would that be? Casserly? :brickwall Capers? Do I want to see McNair down on the field ala Jerry "Hey Everyone I'm a Goober" Jones? Of course not. But when will we get past the point of "Well AT LEAST he brought football back to Houston?" I'm glad he did, but let's right the ship. With that said, I think that he has made great strides to do that very thing. Good things to come...I hope]

IIRC, Mcnair had stated before that he was football illiterate. And..yes, I hate to say it but those two people were hired to make the football decisions to a certain point. We can obviously see that they were not the ones qualified to do so. Mcnair is an outstanding owner IMO and he knows he shouldn't have to micro-manage. That's what he pays his employees for. I just pray for McNair that the Houston fanbase doesn't disappear like it did once before. Let's keep this team in Houston Forever!:redtowel:

:soapbox:

eriadoc
09-22-2006, 10:41 AM
He's one of the nicest, classiest owners in the league. He is nowhere near one of the top owners in the league. He simply hasn't learned from his mistakes. Some of us actually thought we had a pretty disasterous offseason before last year, and thought we were headed in the wrong direction. And, last time I looked it's a free country. I'll state my opinions as I see fit. I don't need to be told otherwise.

How has he not learned from his mistakes?

Let's start right at the beginning. He hired Casserly. First big mistake. Who had come from a big time program that had won a Super Bowl under Casserly's regime. For those who like to parrot that was Beathard's team, Casserly was solely responsible for drafting 9 of the 11 starters on that SB defense. And when McNair learned that he was getting worked, he fired Casserly. So he made an informed decision, it was a mistake, and he learned from it and corrected the problem. Next?

Second mistake was hiring Capers. Again, he made an informed decision, hiring a coach that had experience starting an expansion team, had seen success in Pittsburgh and Carolina, and was very meticulous. Once he saw that Capers' hold on the team was gone, he fired him. Again, he learned from his mistake and corrected it. Next?

Third mistake was hiring Palmer. This is completely up for interpretation, as many will tell you it was Palmer's playcalling that was trying to open things up and Capers' was to slow things down. However, if you count this as a mistake, then surely you realize that Palmer was the first to go. Again, problem corrected. Moving on ....

Fourth mistake was the mistakes in the original expansion draft. This is where you are just flat out wrong. First of all, McNair shouldn't ne making any decisions on draft day, short of evaluating his coaches' decisions and giving a stamp of approval. There might be four or five owners in all of the NFL that are intimately involved on draft day. Regardless, there were no mistakes made on expansion draft day. They made informed decisions that did not work out. They looked at the physical for Willie Roaf, who had failed, and looked at the physical for Boselli, who had been cleared. They chose Boselli (this refutes one of your subsequent assertions, but all in due time). You have no basis for making this claim short of hindsight, and even that is pretty weak when those decisions weren't McNair's (nor should they have been).

Fifth mistake was not insisting that they build a semblance of an oline before throwing Carr to the wolves. They took Boselli and Ryan Young in the expansion draft, based on all available info. Go back and watch the expansion draft coverage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rdS74jrt3M) (thanks Swisher!) - even the media makes a statement as to how strong the O-line will be. They drafted Pitts in the 2nd round. They drafted other linemen. They tried to build an O-line. A combination of Casserly's inability to draft solid personnel and Capers' inability to coach them up led to the demise of this team. McNair's only on the hook for that insofar as he let them do their job. When he saw that they weren't doing their job, he fired them. Hell, not only did he fire them, he brought in a respected consultant, Dan Reeves, a guy with lots of Super Bowl experience, to evaluate things and make sure he was making the right decision. You are way off base here as well.

Sixth mistake was not forcing Capers to insist on professional schemes. Professional schemes?!?! Where do you pull this stuff from? The schemes that Capers came in with were presumably the same ones that had won him many games in Pittsburgh and Carolina. And since when should an owner know anything about "professional schemes"?? I'm in IT and the minute the CEO walks into my office and starts talking about WPA vs. LEAP and which wireless security is better, I might start to buy this one. Top executives in ANY business hire professionals to do their jobs. That is what McNair did and it was far from a mistake.

Seventh mistake was not telling Capers to chunk his assistants when it was painfully obvious they didn't know their heads from their aholes. And when was that, exactly? You could just as easily make a case that the assistants knew what they were doing and Capers did not. Regardless, your entire line of arguments, throughout this thread, has centered on McNair taking over every aspect of the football operations. Here's a news flash for you - McNair's not a football guy and if he ever does take over football operations, you can expect many more 2-14 seasons.

Eighth mistake was listening to Casserly too much, and ignoring his instincts. How did he not correct this and learn from his mistake? He brought in Dan Reeves, consulted with other owners around the NFL, and ended up firing Casserly for it. That's pretty much corrected. As far as learning from his mistake - well, he brought in a coach and GM that have worked together in the past, he's limited the scope of the GM, and he has been more involved in football decisions.

Need I go on? Let's bring us up to April 2006. Mcnoob...I mean Mcnair states that Reggie won't help us beat the Colts. We have to have a pass rush, so he agrees with taking Mario. Fast forward to Sept 17th. How did that one work out for you Bob? You can't have it both ways. Either McNair stays out of the football decisions or he doesn't. He got involved here and decided against Bush. Get over it already. You won't know it's a mistake yet for year and you know what? Even if it is, it's a correction for earlier mistakes.

Trying to make a case that McNair has been a poor owner to this point is not only poor form, it's pointless. He's the owner and that's not changing. To this point, he has made a few mistakes, but mostly, he's made informed decisions that haven't worked out for him because of some of the personnel that he's surrounded himself with. Once those problems became clear, he took steps to remedy them. He's always paid out the money for free agents, he's worked diligently to bring football back to Houston, he worked diligently to ensure the city would have state of the art facilities where players would want to practice and play, and he wants to win.

This is, quite frankly, one of the stupidest arguments I've seen on this board in quite some time, and that's saying a lot.

**note to mods: I did not attack the poster, just his post**

TheOgre
09-22-2006, 11:10 AM
I don't remember anyone predicting the complete crash last season.

I remember a few people were skeptical of the changes. I had guarded optimisim. I remember Sescoyote and a few others predicting a horrible season, and they were right.

Porky
09-22-2006, 11:12 AM
How has he not learned from his mistakes?

Who had come from a big time program that had won a Super Bowl under Casserly's regime. For those who like to parrot that was Beathard's team, Casserly was solely responsible for drafting 9 of the 11 starters on that SB defense. And when McNair learned that he was getting worked, he fired Casserly. So he made an informed decision, it was a mistake, and he learned from it and corrected the problem. Next?

Again, he made an informed decision, hiring a coach that had experience starting an expansion team, had seen success in Pittsburgh and Carolina, and was very meticulous. Once he saw that Capers' hold on the team was gone, he fired him. Again, he learned from his mistake and corrected it. Next?

This is completely up for interpretation, as many will tell you it was Palmer's playcalling that was trying to open things up and Capers' was to slow things down. However, if you count this as a mistake, then surely you realize that Palmer was the first to go. Again, problem corrected. Moving on ....

This is where you are just flat out wrong. First of all, McNair shouldn't ne making any decisions on draft day, short of evaluating his coaches' decisions and giving a stamp of approval. There might be four or five owners in all of the NFL that are intimately involved on draft day. Regardless, there were no mistakes made on expansion draft day. They made informed decisions that did not work out. They looked at the physical for Willie Roaf, who had failed, and looked at the physical for Boselli, who had been cleared. They chose Boselli (this refutes one of your subsequent assertions, but all in due time). You have no basis for making this claim short of hindsight, and even that is pretty weak when those decisions weren't McNair's (nor should they have been).

They took Boselli and Ryan Young in the expansion draft, based on all available info. Go back and watch the expansion draft coverage (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rdS74jrt3M) (thanks Swisher!) - even the media makes a statement as to how strong the O-line will be. They drafted Pitts in the 2nd round. They drafted other linemen. They tried to build an O-line. A combination of Casserly's inability to draft solid personnel and Capers' inability to coach them up led to the demise of this team. McNair's only on the hook for that insofar as he let them do their job. When he saw that they weren't doing their job, he fired them. Hell, not only did he fire them, he brought in a respected consultant, Dan Reeves, a guy with lots of Super Bowl experience, to evaluate things and make sure he was making the right decision. You are way off base here as well.

Professional schemes?!?! Where do you pull this stuff from? The schemes that Capers came in with were presumably the same ones that had won him many games in Pittsburgh and Carolina. And since when should an owner know anything about "professional schemes"?? I'm in IT and the minute the CEO walks into my office and starts talking about WPA vs. LEAP and which wireless security is better, I might start to buy this one. Top executives in ANY business hire professionals to do their jobs. That is what McNair did and it was far from a mistake.

And when was that, exactly? You could just as easily make a case that the assistants knew what they were doing and Capers did not. Regardless, your entire line of arguments, throughout this thread, has centered on McNair taking over every aspect of the football operations. Here's a news flash for you - McNair's not a football guy and if he ever does take over football operations, you can expect many more 2-14 seasons.

How did he not correct this and learn from his mistake? He brought in Dan Reeves, consulted with other owners around the NFL, and ended up firing Casserly for it. That's pretty much corrected. As far as learning from his mistake - well, he brought in a coach and GM that have worked together in the past, he's limited the scope of the GM, and he has been more involved in football decisions.

You can't have it both ways. Either McNair stays out of the football decisions or he doesn't. He got involved here and decided against Bush. Get over it already. You won't know it's a mistake yet for year and you know what? Even if it is, it's a correction for earlier mistakes.

Trying to make a case that McNair has been a poor owner to this point is not only poor form, it's pointless. He's the owner and that's not changing. To this point, he has made a few mistakes, but mostly, he's made informed decisions that haven't worked out for him because of some of the personnel that he's surrounded himself with. Once those problems became clear, he took steps to remedy them. He's always paid out the money for free agents, he's worked diligently to bring football back to Houston, he worked diligently to ensure the city would have state of the art facilities where players would want to practice and play, and he wants to win.

This is, quite frankly, one of the stupidest arguments I've seen on this board in quite some time, and that's saying a lot.

**note to mods: I did not attack the poster, just his post**

Good post, and good points. While I still think some of our problems start at the top, your points are very well thought out. I just am of the thinking that most big organizations with consistent failures usually start at the top. Well that, and sometimes I post stuff like this to provoke thought and debate. Points well taken, and you earned rep from me today!

eriadoc
09-22-2006, 11:20 AM
Good post, and good points. While I still think some of our problems start at the top, your points are very well thought out. I just am of the thinking that most big organizations with consistent failures usually start at the top. Well that, and sometimes I post stuff like this to provoke thought and debate. Points well taken, and you earned rep from me today!

I'll agree with that, to a point. Owners like Tom Benson just never put their teams in the best position to succeed. Owners like Jerry Jones think they can, but their meddling often leads to very poor decisions. Those owners have years upon years of a track record to see where the problems really lie, however. I think, in the case of the Texans, it's just harder to get going as an expansion team now than it was with the Jags and Panthers, we've had some very bad luck (Boselli and Young, Colts peaking right when we're coming in, etc.), and the football people he chose to perform that job function didn't do a good job. I feel pretty good about the corrective measures he's taken and I really don't see issues at the top. Just as a coach has to have good players to succeed, an owner has to have good football people around him to succeed. I believe he's started to get the right people in place and things will turn around.

Double Barrel
09-22-2006, 11:42 AM
It's frustrating, because I think much of this starts right at the top. As much as I like Mr. Mcnair as a person, I think he has continually made the same stupid mistakes over and over.

Let's start right at the beginning. He hired Casserly. First big mistake. Second mistake was hiring Capers. Third mistake was hiring Palmer. Fourth mistake was the mistakes in the original expansion draft. Fifth mistake was not insisting that they build a semblance of an oline before throwing Carr to the wolves. Sixth mistake was not forcing Capers to insist on professional schemes. Seventh mistake was not telling Capers to chunk his assistants when it was painfully obvious they didn't know their heads from their aholes. Eighth mistake was listening to Casserly too much, and ignoring his instincts. Need I go on? Let's bring us up to April 2006. Mcnoob...I mean Mcnair states that Reggie won't help us beat the Colts. We have to have a pass rush, so he agrees with taking Mario. Fast forward to Sept 17th. How did that one work out for you Bob?:challenge

I did not ask about his past mistakes, but was inquiring about McNair making "the same stupid mistakes over and over".

What are those repeated mistakes? idonno:

He did not rehire Casserly or Capers, and unless you are implying that not being directly involved with football operations and personel decisions are mistakes that should be corrected, I do not think the rest of your 2nd post can qualify as making "the same stupid mistakes over and over".

Perhaps you want an owner that dictates the schemes that are being run? Perhaps you want an owner than makes personel decisions on draft day and in free agency? Good luck with finding a good head coach that allows the owner to make these decisions. I'm sure Chan Gailey is available, so maybe he'll be your next head coach.

rafterticket
09-22-2006, 11:55 AM
I'm still a Texans fan and think and hope that it will improve. If I stop feeling that way then I'll put the Texans on hold. I'm a football fan first and foremost. Love it. College and the NFL. There's plenty to keep me excited about.

Hey, everybody. Let's cut him some slack. At least he didn't pledge his allegiance to the Cowboys on his seventh post.

Come on, afcman. Keep it together! I'm still holding out for a decent showing this year, but I gotta admit that Jacksonville has made at least one of our potential wins a little more questionable. I still believe we can go at least 5-3 over the second half of the season.

Two weeks from today, you could be singing another tune about a 2-2 record, and maybe things aren't as bad as they seem.

Thank you, all. That was my 200th post!

BattleRedRaider
09-22-2006, 12:14 PM
I'm sure Chan Gailey is available, so maybe he'll be your next head coach.

I believe he's the head coach for the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets. Unless everybody knew that already.........then nevermind.

Gonzo
09-22-2006, 03:39 PM
I'll support my Texans through thick and thin, no matter where I'm living. Plus, it can always be worse -- we could be Browns fans. :heh:

Texanfan4ever
09-22-2006, 04:19 PM
Good post, and good points. While I still think some of our problems start at the top, your points are very well thought out. I just am of the thinking that most big organizations with consistent failures usually start at the top. Well that, and sometimes I post stuff like this to provoke thought and debate. Points well taken, and you earned rep from me today!


Do you have a degree in human psychology? Most all problems start at the top, but Bob McNair, I can assure you, didn't become as successful as he is by not learning from his mistakes. Hence Dan Reeves, and now Kubiak. Take a chill pill and give it some time to work. ROme wasn't built over night, McNair, Kubiak, and everyone involved are not going to lay down and give up. You can be assured they will keep making changes when they can to get it right. Patience is a virtue!!!!!! :superman:

:texan: