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Barkley
09-20-2006, 11:11 PM
There has been a lot of spirited debate between Texans fans regarding support of the team moving forward. The glass half empty type of people (of which I am a member................suprise, suprise) have criticised the team for poor draft choices and poor management. The glass half full type of people have criticised the team as well for the same things. That said, most of the positive folks have pulled out the old "you are not a true fan card". The fact is that we negative folks love the team just much as the positive folks. We just dont find incompentence acceptable, and we are going to call a spade a spade. We WANT the team to do well, but they are terrible Hell, I rooted for the Oilers for 30 years (when they were be bad, AND when they choked in the playoffs 3 years in a row in the 1990's) and I have baggage from that. Please dont call us bandwagon fans because we are NOT, we just want this team to do well, and we are going to call it like we see it.

infantrycak
09-20-2006, 11:21 PM
we are going to call a spade a spade.

Well then can you call "incompentence" incompetence as well?

Haven't seen a whole lot of true fan cards being flung out this week--maybe a touch of martyr syndrome though.

mexican_texan
09-20-2006, 11:22 PM
You're supposed to stick by your team through thick and thin...whether you think they'll end up in the Super Bowl is a whole other thing.

Capster67
09-20-2006, 11:39 PM
As a longtime fan of professional football in Houston (1978 on) who has lived elsewhere the whole time (Pacific Northwest & Colorado) one of my concerns about the Texan complainers is that they reinforce the notion that Houston fans are fickle. I have put up with decades of pictures of empty seats in the Astrodome, "Save the Oilers" rallies that drew not thousands but dozens, etc that tell the rest of the country Houston doesn't really know how to support football. It has been good to see Reliant Stadium full the first 4 seasons, but I worry that the glass half full people will help once again turn the tide and cause people around the country to say, "Houston just can't get behind a team." I only wish Houston had the fan loyalty of places like Denver and Cleveland. I know the age old excuses about lack of support for the Oilers being linked to Bud Adams and his incompetence. It's time, however, for the city to wake up, look in the mirror, and say, "It's time to stop complaining about others perceptions of us and turn this thing around for ourselves." I for one am willing to do my part in Colorado (I defended the team against rabid Broncos fans at Invesco field during the preseason game, and I take on Texan mockers each week at the sports bar I watch the games at). I'm hoping that the rest of the folks in Housto will do their part as well.

Grid
09-20-2006, 11:42 PM
If you are on a road trip with 2 other guys..and you get lost..and one guy says:

"Well lets break out the map. We cant be that far off course"

and the other says:

"what the HELL were you thinking? Good god I told you we should have just taken the bus, now we are lost and we are probably all going to die in some backwoods shed. Thanks alot for killing us you jerk.. I wanted to have kids some day and now im never gonna get the chance. Its all your fault that we are here and its all your fault that we are dead and I just want you to know that im never going to forgive you for this and my soul will haunt your family for all of eternity. You suck and I hope you die painfully"

Which guy are you gonna kick out of the car?


Your post makes it sound as though we are all being reasonable and logical, we just have different opinions. Its kind of hard to support that theory though.

There are some undeniable truths that many of the "glass half empty" fans refuse to recognize.. like its too early to call Williams a bust.. and its too early to dog on Kubiak..

Additionally, while I can understand a certain degree of unhappiness when the team does something you dont like (like passing on Bush) I cant understand a person who calls themself a "fan" spending months picking apart everything the team does and constantly saying "Well if we had done what I said to do, we wouldnt be in this position". That isnt being a fan.. thats just being a punk.

A fan, in my mind, has the courage and good sense to say "the past is the past" and keep on hoping that the moves we have made will pay dividends in the future. That doesnt mean that there is not a time when it is alright to say "ok, this just isnt working"... such as last season when we went 2 and 14..

I guess you could say there is a grey area.. I am going to call this area "The loyalty zone". The loyalty zone is the period of time exists between the point where your team makes a decision you dont agree with, and the point where you call them out on it.

For the "glass half full" types..they have a Loyalty zone that can stretch for miles. They have patience and they will wait it out and let things run thier cycle before they say "its time for a change". Some glass half empty types get annoyed with this because they think that the positive guys cant see whats in front of thier face.. but they can..they just have made the decision to be LOYAL to the team and see where they are going with it before they raise hell.

The "glass half empty" types can have a very small loyalty zone.. they do not want to wait and see what the team is planning.. they want results right now, and if they dont get the results they want right now, then they arent shy about pointing out that they wanted to go a different route, and they want answers as to why thier team didnt go down the path that THEY wanted..because they are arrogant enough to believe that thier way would have had much better results.

As you can see, im a bit biased in this.

Fact of the matter is that I can see our weaknesses as well as you can, the difference is that what I call a weakness, you call a mistake. A weakness can be improved until it is a strength, while a mistake is still a mistake, no matter what. Just as you cant understand why the positive people arent up in arms, I cant understand why the negative people refuse to give things a chance to develop. You would think that a football dynasty can be created in one offseason, judging by the posts by some people here.

Of course, thier argument is that we have had 4 years. I find that to be a pretty lame view of things. Yah we have had a franchise for 4 years.. but we have only had this coach, and this philosophy, for 1 offseason. I dont see Cardinal fans yelling at thier head coach cause he has had decades to make a superbowl franchise...that would just be stupid.

Anyway..im rambling. Suffice to say that neither side is going to agree with each other because even though they both see the same issues, they react to them in completely opposite ways. Both sides are going to stay annoyed at each other.. there is no getting around it.

Best you can do is pick your fights... focus on shooting down the extreme viewpoints that have no basis in logic.. and let all the intelligent posters talk amongst themselves.

LBC_Justin
09-21-2006, 12:09 AM
There has been a lot of spirited debate between Texans fans regarding support of the team moving forward. The glass half empty type of people (of which I am a member................suprise, suprise) have criticised the team for poor draft choices and poor management. The glass half full type of people have criticised the team as well for the same things. That said, most of the positive folks have pulled out the old "you are not a true fan card". The fact is that we negative folks love the team just much as the positive folks. We just dont find incompentence acceptable, and we are going to call a spade a spade. We WANT the team to do well, but they are terrible Hell, I rooted for the Oilers for 30 years (when they were be bad, AND when they choked in the playoffs 3 years in a row in the 1990's) and I have baggage from that. Please dont call us bandwagon fans because we are NOT, we just want this team to do well, and we are going to call it like we see it.
Here is the problem.

You are forming your "glass is half-empy" opinion after two games against two of the best teams in the NFL. You are not taking into account the age of this team, they are young. You are not taking into account the fact that we are running a new system on every side of the ball. You are not taking into account we have a new coach. I could go on.

We are two freaking games into the season. For the love of god, let the season play out a little. The glass isn't half anything...only a few drops have been poured into it....give it time to fill. It might be two-thirds full / one-third empty. Noone knows yet.

BTW when you call anyone a bust after two games you lose all credability. It makes you sound ignorant.

You aren't 8 years old. Have some patience. This may be your 5th year as a Texans fan, but it is only Kubiak's 1st year coaching this team. He can't be punished for the team's past failures.

HoustonFan
09-21-2006, 07:50 AM
You're supposed to stick by your team through thick and thin...whether you think they'll end up in the Super Bowl is a whole other thing.

Most definitely. Patience sure has run thin over the years though. I feel bad for Kubiak in that the guy came into a system that has been downtrodden after a horrible 4th season - maybe it compiled over the years, but for last season to be a bust like that.... that'll hurt your pride a bit. Kubiak comes into this thing trying to instill a winning attitude in this team and keeping the QB on his feet.

I'm not gonna throw this team under the bus, b/c I really feel they'll do what the Oilers couldn't do when they were here. And that is get to the Superbowl and actually win it. If it's w/ the main characters of this team - Carr, Williams, D. Rob, etc. - or another cast of characters it doesn't matter, this team will make it there. YEAH, I SAID IT!!! :texans: :logo: :wherewill

Mr. White
09-21-2006, 08:52 AM
Bad football is nothing new in Houston. We've all known that we've got a sorry team. For 5 years now.

What is new is good coaching. If anybody deserves the benefit of the doubt around here, it's a coach with 3 Super Bowl rings. Is he gonna make some mistakes? Yeah...

It's possible that the guy doesn't have a clue, but he's been around enough winners to make me think he might know a little bit more than some disgruntled MB posters.

This time last year was the perfect time for whining and complaining. We had a coach that really wasn't qualified to be a head coach and players that aren't even playing in the NFL right now.

Go look at any franchise's history. When teams are really bad, they change coaches. The new coach usually brings in his own system, his own staff, and his own players. That usually means that they won't win much the first year after a coaching change. That's how it works.

Crazyhorse
09-21-2006, 08:58 AM
Maybe Texan fans should take a page from the CUBS fan book. They haven't been to the World Series in so long that no is still alive from the last time they were there. Inspite of all their hardships year after year the fan love continues to flow and the support is always there. Houston fans could learn from this!!!!!!!!!!!

Texans_Chick
09-21-2006, 09:31 AM
BTW when you call anyone a bust after two games you lose all credability. It makes you sound ignorant.

You aren't 8 years old. Have some patience. This may be your 5th year as a Texans fan, but it is only Kubiak's 1st year coaching this team. He can't be punished for the team's past failures.


Well said.

I would add that people can have any point of view they want on the team, some realistic and some vindictive, some patient and some demanding, some reasonable and some silly.

All I want is for the fans to show up to the game and make a real home field advantage, even if bad things happen in the course of a game. As much as fans talk about not wanting their team to quit, I don't see Texans fans having much patience when stuff goes wrong, and over the course of 4 quarters, it is likely that some bad stuff happens (for both teams).

My problem with the bag heads and glass mostly empty people is that they are just another obstacle the team faces in a season that they have enough to worry about.

I think it is completely possible to be realistic about the team without being ugly about it.

eriadoc
09-21-2006, 09:39 AM
I think it is completely possible to be realistic about the team without being ugly about it.

Amen. This is the biggest problem I have with some of the posters on this board. It's possible to be realistic about your team without being ugly. Damn, I might print that out.

Barkley, no one's bagging on you for trying to be realistic about the team. But if you think anyone's going to take you seriously when you declare Mario a bust after two games, you're sorely mistaken. If you brought forth rational discourse, you would receive the same in kind. The attitude you put forth dictates how people respond to you. Some people revel in presenting a negative image to elicit negative responses - they're called trolls.

TommyS
09-21-2006, 10:03 AM
Maybe Texan fans should take a page from the CUBS fan book. They haven't been to the World Series in so long that no is still alive from the last time they were there. Inspite of all their hardships year after year the fan love continues to flow and the support is always there. Houston fans could learn from this!!!!!!!!!!!

i live in chicago, just a few blocks from wrigley field, take it from me, we dont want to be anything like the cubs fans... imagine Reliant full of people who dont give a ******* about football and just want to drink and hit on each other... its not abotu the game, its about the socialising - they dont have to care about the game coz they know theyre gonna loose... but hey. this is a texans MB, not a "stupid cubs" rant, my apologies.

SheTexan
09-21-2006, 10:45 AM
Well said.

I would add that people can have any point of view they want on the team, some realistic and some vindictive, some patient and some demanding, some reasonable and some silly.

All I want is for the fans to show up to the game and make a real home field advantage, even if bad things happen in the course of a game. As much as fans talk about not wanting their team to quit, I don't see Texans fans having much patience when stuff goes wrong, and over the course of 4 quarters, it is likely that some bad stuff happens (for both teams).

My problem with the bag heads and glass mostly empty people is that they are just another obstacle the team faces in a season that they have enough to worry about.

I think it is completely possible to be realistic about the team without being ugly about it.

DITTO, my thoughts exactly Stephanie!! The only thing I might add is that if you are looking for "instant gratification" in the game of football, you will be sorely disappointed! It takes a lot of patience, passion for the GAME, as well as a lot of loyalty, to be able to withstand the week by week emotions a football team can put you through. Some fans can take that roller-coaster ride of emotions, and some can't. To each his own!

thunderkyss
09-21-2006, 11:42 AM
A "new system" has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with not being able to tackle and not being able to get pressure on the QB. NOTHING! 3-4, 4-3, 4-4, 46 or whatever kind of defense you run...you've known how to TACKLE since you were in Jr. High School...how long does that hold up?

For the most part Blue...... I think we all agree that some of the basics on Defense seem to have been thrown out the window.... we don't know why, and have said as much.

Have there been many missed tackles?? I don't recall one.....

And for many of us...YES we are taking into account a new coach. I know that everyone hates Capers, and personally, I can't stand the guy either. But the FACT is, he was successful in Carolina and he was successful in Jacksonville. Houston? Not so much.

Personally, the only thing I didn't like about Capers was his tendancy to sit on a lead no matter how small..... I can understand ball control when you're up by 20, no sense in humiliating a team...... but when you're up by a field goal, you don't shut down your offense.

Maybe Kubiak is the "savior," but maybe he's not...I think that fans like Barkley (and myself) are ONLY trying to point out, that there are some problems with the team in it's current form. And there have been problems with it "in it's current form"...for ALL of their current and past forms.

I'm with you, as a matter of fact, I'm in several threads talking to other half full people trying to figure out exactly what those problems are.

[COLOR=blue]I can agree with this statement, here's my question. At which point to homers stop blasting fans that see it a different way, which IMO is based much more in reality than in "you're just not a true fan?" I've seen so many times in the past two weeks where season ticket holders or just occasional attendees say that they've paid their money to boo and they're gonna boo if the team does poorly. They are roasted because they aren't "fans." Why?

They're booing David.... he's had two of his best games ever, and they are booing David... it's like they expect him to be perfect...
... you don't see a problem with that??

& it's not that they are seeing things differently, it's that they are seeing things wrong..... No pressure on the QB?? Manning was throwing balls away, missing his recievers, and scrambling for 1st downs... for cry'n out loud.

McNabb as well.

You want to beat either of these QBs, then yeah you've got to get pressure on them. But you also have to be able to cover their recievers for 3 seconds.

I think that the Texans are TRULY an Awesome Team! I love my team. But if I've gotta leave or check my brain and opinions at the turnstile gate, then what's the point?
:homer:

ojthecat
09-21-2006, 11:47 AM
All of this will be fixed when we start winning. I know it will happen but I do not know when. I am hopefull that it starts this week. When we are winning we will have the best home field advantage in the NFL. I saw it the first 3 years and we were not even winning. Does anyone remember the Dallas game Reliant was ROCKING.

Go Texans.

Double Barrel
09-21-2006, 11:56 AM
There has been a lot of spirited debate between Texans fans regarding support of the team moving forward. The glass half empty type of people (of which I am a member................suprise, suprise) have criticised the team for poor draft choices and poor management. The glass half full type of people have criticised the team as well for the same things. That said, most of the positive folks have pulled out the old "you are not a true fan card". The fact is that we negative folks love the team just much as the positive folks. We just dont find incompentence acceptable, and we are going to call a spade a spade. We WANT the team to do well, but they are terrible Hell, I rooted for the Oilers for 30 years (when they were be bad, AND when they choked in the playoffs 3 years in a row in the 1990's) and I have baggage from that. Please dont call us bandwagon fans because we are NOT, we just want this team to do well, and we are going to call it like we see it.

No offense, man, but you were 25 when the Oilers left town. How could you have supported them for 30 years? :um:

Glass half empty/half full...just be glad you have a glass. :howdy:

TexanBearkat
09-21-2006, 12:08 PM
This team right now is very bad. However, with all the changes that have been made since last season I am very optimistic things will get turned around. It's going to take time, perhaps more than some of anticpated. Here's one thing I am certain of: I am a die hard Texans fan and you'll find me in Section 136 8 games a year screaming loudly rooting for my Texans to win.

thunderkyss
09-21-2006, 12:08 PM
Glass half empty/half full...just be glad you have a glass. :howdy:

POTD

LBC_Justin
09-23-2006, 02:08 AM
Yeah OK....that was a bit of an emotional reaction. I am not TRYING to be a troll, I just want to vent about the team. If they had lost the first two games and shown some improvement, I would not have been so negative. It looked like the same team from last year and we made a very controversial decision in taking Mario over Bush. I WANT to see Mario do well, but again....he has shown absolutely NOTHING in two regular season games.
maybe you don't know what to look for?
click here - interesting thread (http://forums.houstontexans.com/showthread.php?t=28409)

oh and DEs take time to develop. Mario came out as a Junior so he is even younger than the average rookie DE. The guy is going to be a monster, but he is very very young, give him time. I am personally seeing improvement each game. Of couse I actually watch him on most plays, while most fans just follow the ball. He still has a LONG way to go, but I see why they chose him.

PS don't listen to the guys at ESPN....the don't watch our team play, they have no clue what is going on with this team.

TK_Gamer
09-23-2006, 02:45 AM
Again....another personal attack. I guess I'm 8 years old now. the fact is that this team has been in existence for 5 years now and they are worse than year 1. I'm venting my frustration. I'm going to root for this team no matter what, but when they give up almost 1,000 yards of offense in the first 2 games, I am going to call them out

actually this can hardly be called the same team, if we had established guys, established systems, same coaches, and didnt show improvement that would be one thing, unfortunately we havent had that, we have changed at almost every position and every coach, both offense and defense have changed several times with the recent changes being quite drastic. teams like philly and indy and the rams and denver are what they are because they have been able to play basicly the same scheme for a long time, you get better at anything the longer you stick to it. so let's give the team a chance to absorb and perfect the new systems and new personnel before we start being so critical of them. we all want to see the texans win and be a great team, and I think they will be if we give them a chance. my :twocents:

tsip
09-23-2006, 03:16 AM
Bad football is nothing new in Houston. We've all known that we've got a sorry team. For 5 years now.

What is new is good coaching. If anybody deserves the benefit of the doubt around here, it's a coach with 3 Super Bowl rings. Is he gonna make some mistakes? Yeah...

It's possible that the guy doesn't have a clue, but he's been around enough winners to make me think he might know a little bit more than some disgruntled MB posters.

This time last year was the perfect time for whining and complaining. We had a coach that really wasn't qualified to be a head coach and players that aren't even playing in the NFL right now.

Go look at any franchise's history. When teams are really bad, they change coaches. The new coach usually brings in his own system, his own staff, and his own players. That usually means that they won't win much the first year after a coaching change. That's how it works.

I can understand 'all' the new stuff. I can deal with 'all' the time talk. However, I've always had a problem with a HC that tells the media/fans one thing in press conferences/luncheons/etc about his 'philosophies/style of play' that we'll see on the field but-come game day-the team's play reflects something else, something totally different.

Capers was a master of this, keeping us 'at bay' each week by telling us what we wanted to hear and then not doing that on Sunday. Eventually, his 'coaching not to lose' monikor beat out his 'little white lies' that translated into failure on the field.

Now, Kubiak started his reign by telling 'everyone' who'd listen he was absolutely going to 'coach to win' from day one. We would see aggression 'everywhere-game day game plans and any adjustments needed to them in 'real' game time-plays designed to exploit players strength-everything geared to 'win,' etc.etc.

During pre-season, we saw some of this and hope was everywhere, but the first 2 games have left me wondering-not that I expected to win those games-why we did not at least 'play to win.'

Ok, so maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just being too deja vu. I'll take a deep breath-exhale slowly-and believe (with my half full glass) that the best is yet to come and sooner than later...:cowboy1:

Dime
09-23-2006, 03:33 AM
Ok.. whats this half empty/half full junk.

Either your a fan or not. We were 2 and 14 last year. Did you think we were going to the bloody superbowl this year. My gawd, only two games have been played and I swear everyone is complaining we did not win against teams WE HAVE NEVER won against.

AND we are STARTING 5 rookies.

Look at the improvement in the how Carr is. Yes, the D has looked pretty bad, but ummm.. come to think about it, we just went up against two playoff teams and with rebuilding, of course we look bad. Oh, did you forget we were 2 and 14 last year, meaning we were bad last year. The team has a long road to regain its confience, and I sure they get it listening to all here complain on how they cant do anything right.

Forgive my harsh bluntness but Shut Up till we are at least 6-8 minimum games in before claiming the sky is falling, the earth is ending, and all hope is lost.

I have always wondered why some of you here are so smart, why you are not coaches for NFL teams, because alot of you sure know alot more then most coaches in the league.

Face it! Kube has a proven record.. you dont. Give him a bloody chance.

PS folks: I have been one of the HARSHEST critics of the team and certain players on this board, but you got to give them a chance to improve and shine. Do I see bad plays, Oh yes. But I also see something I havent seen in the past 4 years. Moments of very good play. Moments of a pass rush starting, Moments of sacks starting, Moments of good reads and good passes. Lets enjoy the moments..

HJam72
09-23-2006, 03:40 AM
I do wonder if some of us spend more time studying the team than some coaches do, especially the past regime.

thunderkyss
09-23-2006, 09:29 AM
You are correct......but guess what? No winning seasons in 4 years and last year was a complete disaster. How does that make me impatient?

BUt guess what....... after 4 years of subpar football, the organization has done what it was supposed to do. Now, as fans, we need to support their decision, and support our team. We should understand that they are basically the same team as last year, but are going through a change, that will change time.

THe most important thing that happened Sunday..... more important than any win (other than the Dallas game), Is that David has experienced some success...... against a very good team.

Technically, that means squat in the outcome of the game. But for us fans, in the longterm........ think about it..........

think about it.

As I've stated previously, I will continue to root for this team no matter what, but I'm going to criticise them when they are AWFUL. There is nothing wrong with that. They need to be held accountable. I still don't understand how critcizing the team when they are an embarrsement makes you less of a fan. I WANT THEM to be better and am willing to wait, but will be critical when they give almost 1,000 yards of offense up in 2 games. These guys are supposed to be professionals.

I don't have a problem with that..... it's understandable...... but to advocate wearing a bag on your head, or booing on game day........ bad form.

If you want to criticize them that's fine, but not on game day. On game day, we cheer them when they do well. go quite when they mess up (because we know it's going to happen), then make noise when the opposing offense is on the field.

WE appear to have a problem with the OLine........ we looked good in they looked good in Practice, they looked good in Preseason, come gameday, they look like the same old same old... I can understand the fans being upset, and thinking we have the same problems as last year.

But to ignore we have guys who have successfully built OLs working on the problem, to ignore that we have/had a Rookie at LT, a new Center, etc.... etc...

It's a work in progress... look for the small successes each game.... before long, it will turn into big canges... wins against good teams.......

HJam72
09-23-2006, 09:44 AM
Late response:


Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooo!

OK, I'm happy now.

DBCooper
09-23-2006, 12:10 PM
This is not a glass half-empty/half-full issue.

This is a do not boo your team, root-em on till the last second issue.

It's OK to yell and scream when things don't go our way, or when the team doesn't perform well. But don't boo. And don't give up on them.

We want 4-quarters from the team, the team needs 4-quarters from us (and more). We need every advantage we can get. Make it so loud the Redskins can't hear themselves think. Group positive energy goes a long way. Give your positive energy to the Texans!

thunderkyss
09-23-2006, 01:04 PM
[COLOR=blue]YES! I see a HUGE problem with that!!! I think it's repulsive to boo DC after the past two games. He has had some solid stats...although to be completely honest, I think that MANY of those stats were "fluff stats." I think that although they are solid numbers, it doesn't reflect that it was against 2nd string scrubs in the 4th quarter. Just MO. But as far as booing him in a good game...NO CLASS! I don't have much problem (honestly) with booing ANY TEAM if they make a stupid decision. I booed the Astros back in 2001 when they walked Barry Bonds THREE STRAIGHT TIMES he came up to the plate. I cheered when they finally pitched to him at the end of the game...AND I cheered when he blasted a BOMB to the upper deck! :rolleyes:


That's a little bit of an overstatement. Kevin Mathis & the starting Defensive line weren't sitting on the bench watching the second team. Dwight Freeney got hurt, so he was out of the game. The other subsitutions were more along the regular give your starters a rest kinda break. Not the "We've blown them out, so let's sit our starters" kinda thinking.

One of the things about the Colts, they look at this as good practice for their first teams........ it gives them opportunity to work on different aspects of their game, against a real live offense, and not an offense they know what is about to happen.

But... they played softer, no doubt. More prevent type stuff.

done88
09-23-2006, 01:10 PM
The best fans do not accept mediocraty. We support our team and expect it to make moves that make sense. Saying you have to be happy with everything the team does simply incorrect. If your child does bad things you don't say I love them so I'm going to be ok with it. No you scold them, you tell them what they did is wrong so they can better prepare themseleves for the real world. You are actually a better parent for expecting more from your child and you are a better fan for expecting more from your team. You never give up on them but you always expect the best from them.

dantem
09-23-2006, 01:58 PM
Just a side note...
from Websters Dictionary

3fan
Function: noun
Etymology: probably short for fanatic
1 : an enthusiastic devotee (as of a sport or a performing art) usually as a spectator
2 : an ardent admirer or enthusiast (as of a celebrity or a pursuit) <science-fiction fans>

dantem
09-23-2006, 02:03 PM
Ooops, Ileft off the other half of the last post.

Main Entry: 1crit·ic
Pronunciation: 'kri-tik
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin criticus, from Greek kritikos, from kritikos able to discern or judge, from krinein
Date: 1588
1 a : one who expresses a reasoned opinion on any matter especially involving a judgment of its value, truth, righteousness, beauty, or technique b : one who engages often professionally in the analysis, evaluation, or appreciation of works of art or artistic performances
2 : one given to harsh or captious judgment

Grid
09-23-2006, 09:07 PM
The best fans do not accept mediocraty. We support our team and expect it to make moves that make sense. Saying you have to be happy with everything the team does simply incorrect. If your child does bad things you don't say I love them so I'm going to be ok with it. No you scold them, you tell them what they did is wrong so they can better prepare themseleves for the real world. You are actually a better parent for expecting more from your child and you are a better fan for expecting more from your team. You never give up on them but you always expect the best from them.


whew... that is some tightly packed bull**** right there. I dunno how you fit it all into one paragraph.

The best fans dont accept mediocrity... hmm.. no thats pretty much the opposite of the truth. The best fans accept mediocrity and hope, pray, and cheer for something better.

Ya know..there is a difference between "accepting mediocrity" and "delighting in mediocrity". The best fans ACCEPT IT.. but they dont say "hooray for mediocrity!"..that would be delighting in it.

Your comparison to parenting is fine and all..and that applies to children, but it doesnt apply to fans and football teams.


As for the best fans expecting thier team to make moves that make sense. Again..thats just plain false. Ya know why its false? Cause there are too many ignorant fans.. "sense" to some fans would be trading Steve McKinney for Peyton Manning.

Fact of the matter is that a GOOD fan accepts when thier team is playing poorly and remains a fan, and cheers when they play well. They stay for the whole game to show support for thier team, and have faith that they are working to improve. You really think that a team has to have thier fans booing and leaving early in order to feel like they should be trying to win games? Most NFL players.. you could put them in an empty stadium and they would still be playing hard to win.. thats the nature of competitive people. A good fan also doesnt pass judgement on thier team when they make a move which doesnt seem logical to them at the time. Like when we signed Ron Dayne and everyone said "But we have Lundy and Morency!".

TexanFanInCC
09-23-2006, 09:55 PM
You're supposed to stick by your team through thick and thin...whether you think they'll end up in the Super Bowl is a whole other thing.

yessir. im still optimistic on mario williams. sure he hasnt played like we hoped, but its obvious that the coaching staff still thinks very highly of him if they are moving him around the d-line after only playing a few games in the NFL. im not a fan of that. i would rather see him get comfortable playing one spot, but kubes definitely has confidence in him.

NATHANHALE
09-23-2006, 10:22 PM
whew... that is some tightly packed bull**** right there. I dunno how you fit it all into one paragraph.

The best fans dont accept mediocrity... hmm.. no thats pretty much the opposite of the truth. The best fans accept mediocrity and hope, pray, and cheer for something better.

Ya know..there is a difference between "accepting mediocrity" and "delighting in mediocrity". The best fans ACCEPT IT.. but they dont say "hooray for mediocrity!"..that would be delighting in it.

Your comparison to parenting is fine and all..and that applies to children, but it doesnt apply to fans and football teams.


As for the best fans expecting thier team to make moves that make sense. Again..thats just plain false. Ya know why its false? Cause there are too many ignorant fans.. "sense" to some fans would be trading Steve McKinney for Peyton Manning.

Fact of the matter is that a GOOD fan accepts when thier team is playing poorly and remains a fan, and cheers when they play well. They stay for the whole game to show support for thier team, and have faith that they are working to improve. You really think that a team has to have thier fans booing and leaving early in order to feel like they should be trying to win games? Most NFL players.. you could put them in an empty stadium and they would still be playing hard to win.. thats the nature of competitive people. A good fan also doesnt pass judgement on thier team when they make a move which doesnt seem logical to them at the time. Like when we signed Ron Dayne and everyone said "But we have Lundy and Morency!".

When the team started doing so badly last year, did you keep posting on the board like a loyal and real fan and stick with them until the end--syrup and all?

Porky
09-23-2006, 10:26 PM
whew... that is some tightly packed bull**** right there. I dunno how you fit it all into one paragraph.

The best fans dont accept mediocrity... hmm.. no thats pretty much the opposite of the truth. The best fans accept mediocrity and hope, pray, and cheer for something better.

Ya know..there is a difference between "accepting mediocrity" and "delighting in mediocrity". The best fans ACCEPT IT.. but they dont say "hooray for mediocrity!"..that would be delighting in it.


Accept mediocrity? Never. Mediocrity is for losers. Go watch Glory Road. To be the best, you accept nothing else. Everything short of your ultimate goal is simply unacceptable. You have to be driven to succeed, whether in sports or in life. You have a losers mentality. If the team itself took your approach, they would never win a damn thing.

done88
09-23-2006, 10:55 PM
AGAIN.....another person missing the point. This guy NEVER said anything about quitiing rooting for this team. He said that he won't accept mediocrity. There is no time limit on it. He is going to continue rooting for the team (just like you) NO MATTER WHAT, but is going to call them out when they are a joke.

My point exactly. I've never left a game early. I do not cheer when they perform poorly. I continue to yell for the defense when we are down by 3 scores with less then 2 minutes. However when they walk off the field and I'm standing there I don't say good game fella's. When they make moves that are completely against conventional wisdom, I say its going to be a long year. I will be here through thick and thin. They will pry my tickets from my dead hands. But after spending a large amount of money on going to each game, if I don't think the Texans are living up to their end of the bargin I'm going to say so. If that means someone on the field quits before the end of the game or the fdront office is making bone head decisions, I'm going to say something. If I did not live up to my end and continue to pay for my tickets you can be guaranteed they would say something to me. This team puts the Fans needs first all the time. That is awsome. The last need we have is to win. I hope they start making more conventional decisions in the front office soon so that we can get to the businees at hand.

Grid
09-23-2006, 11:30 PM
My point exactly. I've never left a game early. I do not cheer when they perform poorly. I continue to yell for the defense when we are down by 3 scores with less then 2 minutes. However when they walk off the field and I'm standing there I don't say good game fella's. When they make moves that are completely against conventional wisdom, I say its going to be a long year. I will be here through thick and thin. They will pry my tickets from my dead hands. But after spending a large amount of money on going to each game, if I don't think the Texans are living up to their end of the bargin I'm going to say so. If that means someone on the field quits before the end of the game or the fdront office is making bone head decisions, I'm going to say something. If I did not live up to my end and continue to pay for my tickets you can be guaranteed they would say something to me. This team puts the Fans needs first all the time. That is awsome. The last need we have is to win. I hope they start making more conventional decisions in the front office soon so that we can get to the businees at hand.

I must have just misunderstood your first post cause I think we are basicly saying the same thing.

Only difference is that I think we should actually wait a bit before we start dogging on our new coach/system/players.




And to the guy that asked if i "accepted" last season, no i didnt. Read my post towards the beggining of this thread for my thoughts on that.


As for the whole "NO! We cant accept mediocrity!" folks.. you are missing the point of what I said. Accepting mediocrity is not the 8th deadly sin.. the "accepting" comes in NOT turning your back on your team when they are struggling. That is all I meant by accepting it. I was pointing out that there is a difference between "accepting mediocrity" (e.g. Not wearing a bag to games..not walking out.. not dogging your team relentlessly).. and "delighting in mediocrity" (e.g. saying "hey you guys did great" when they sucked).

We are saying the same thing.. just in different ways.

bigtex77
09-24-2006, 11:04 AM
I'll be the first to admit that though I'm one of the biggest Texans fans I know, I still get very frustrated with them. Sometimes I wonder why I even bother but then it hits me: I think back to '98, '99 when all I wanted was to have pro football here again. Some of you don't realize what you have, or else you have short memories. Maybe I am the definition of a die-hard, but the Texans could total 7 wins in the next 5 seasons and I would still cheer for them. They are my team. Period.

Vinny
09-24-2006, 11:50 AM
I first became an NFL fan when the Oilers were awful. Back to back 1-13 awful. I have seen some really rotten football here but things go in cycles and I know the NFL is one tough league. It may take us a while to be good...but awful football is awful football. I try to just tell it like it is and hang in there. I don't get the 'homer' spin stuff myself. I don't see how people can be credible by not speaking the truth about what they see.

ghostlight
09-24-2006, 12:13 PM
I first became an NFL fan when the Oilers were awful. Back to back 1-13 awful. I have seen some really rotten football here but things go in cycles and I know the NFL is one tough league. It may take us a while to be good...but awful football is awful football. I try to just tell it like it is and hang in there. I don't get the 'homer' spin stuff myself. I don't see how people can be credible by not speaking the truth about what they see.


Vinny,I can see the light.