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texflex513
09-20-2006, 12:56 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/mcclain/4199949.html

Really puts alot into perspective..

HOU-TEX
09-20-2006, 01:02 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/mcclain/4199949.html

Really puts alot into perspective..

I like it. He actually speaks the truth.:yikes: Nice find on the article:redtowel:

El Tejano
09-20-2006, 01:05 PM
Decent. I just hate having to keep "put things in perspective" after four long years.

I really would like a win on Sunday. Especially since I am going to the game.

Here's another stat. Last time Brunell came to our house, Leftwich became the permanent starter for the Jville Jags.

Texans Horror
09-20-2006, 01:11 PM
I just want to see them competitive. So far, they've looked like they don't belong in the league.

hollywood_texan
09-20-2006, 01:11 PM
Yeah, it is a good article.

I think his point about the next two games is right on the money that it will really show us who this team is.

I will add, we'll get a good measuring stick for Carr's stats from the first two weeks. If they are as important as some people say they are, we could really win both of these games.

And David Carr winning both these games because of his play would be a great step forward to settling "THE GREAT TEXANS DEBATE".

Texans_Chick
09-20-2006, 01:26 PM
Yeah, it is a good article.

I think his point about the next two games is right on the money that it will really show us who this team is.

I will add, we'll get a good measuring stick for Carr's stats from the first two weeks. If they are as important as some people say they are, we could really win both of these games.

And David Carr winning both these games because of his play would be a great step forward to settling "THE GREAT TEXANS DEBATE".


Ultimately, if you read everything that Kubiak says and does, it is not about individual players on this team. He is loathed to talk about just Mario or just David--he just wants all the pieces and parts to start working together and trusting each other and doing what was practiced.

eriadoc
09-20-2006, 01:43 PM
I will add, we'll get a good measuring stick for Carr's stats from the first two weeks. If they are as important as some people say they are, we could really win both of these games.

And David Carr winning both these games because of his play would be a great step forward to settling "THE GREAT TEXANS DEBATE".

At thi spoint, I think Carr could post a passing TD in each quarter and have a rating of over 100 and the team would still lose. I'd settle for a 10-7 win, if it just showed the defense playing up to par.

hollywood_texan
09-20-2006, 01:45 PM
Ultimately, if you read everything that Kubiak says and does, it is not about individual players on this team. He is loathed to talk about just Mario or just David--he just wants all the pieces and parts to start working together and trusting each other and doing what was practiced.

So what is your point?

My point has nothing to do with how Kubiak handles the media. Which is what your are discussing.

Like I said, Carr winning both of those games directly, would be great boost for this team to give them an identity, and really encourage the fans, which would begin to stop this endless debate. Bottom line, fans pay for this team, and there could be a problem in the near future the way things are going with fans continuing their financial support.

I really don't care to discuss the way Kubiak handles the press, which seems to be your point to me. It really is irrelevant.

hollywood_texan
09-20-2006, 01:49 PM
At thi spoint, I think Carr could post a passing TD in each quarter and have a rating of over 100 and the team would still lose. I'd settle for a 10-7 win, if it just showed the defense playing up to par.

As I have said, these next two games should be in play the entire four quarters. I don't expect high scoring games even as bad as our defense has played against the Colts and Eagles.

If Carr throws a TD every quarter in the next two games, I think the Texans should be able come away with easy victories. The defense will be off the field most of the game, which would be a good thing right now.

Even though David has some good stats, take away the first drive of the Eagles game and the last quarter of the Colts game, and you have a complete disaster.

texflex513
09-20-2006, 01:53 PM
So what is your point?

My point has nothing to do with how Kubiak handles the media. Which is what your are discussing.

Like I said, Carr winning both of those games directly, would be great boost for this team to give them an identity, and really encourage the fans, which would begin to stop this endless debate. Bottom line, fans pay for this team, and there could be a problem in the near future the way things are going with fans continuing their financial support.

I really don't care to discuss the way Kubiak handles the press, which seems to be your point to me. It really is irrelevant.

I think she meant everyone's play should be measured as well as improved every individual player is accountable. and as for the carr debate... problems with the other areas of the team are just as important..

hollywood_texan
09-20-2006, 01:58 PM
I think she meant everyone's play should be measured as well as improved every individual player is a accountable. and as for the carr debate... problems with the other areas of the team are just as important..

Agreed, but I think from what we have seen this first two weeks, since the Texans appear to be playing lesser opponents, if Carr's play stays the same (the arguement is he is playing better than other people on offense), we should be able to get a couple of victories here.

It just seems surprising that Carr's stats are so important but there seems to be a reluctance to put the team on his back, not to mention he is probably the highest paid player on the team and #1 pick in the 2002 draft. He should shoulder most of the responsibility, regardless of how Kubiak handles the media.

As I said, this is a great opportunity for Kubiak and Carr to start to put a stamp on this team.

texflex513
09-20-2006, 02:04 PM
Agreed, but I think from what we have seen this first two weeks, since the Texans appear to be playing lesser opponents, if Carr's play stays the same (the arguement is he is playing better than other people on offense), we should be able to get a couple of victories here.

It just seems surprising that Carr's stats are so important but there seems to be a reluctance to put the team on his back, not to mention he is probably the highest paid player on the team and #1 pick in the 2002 draft. He should shoulder most of the responsibility, regardless of how Kubiak handles the media.

As I said, this is a great opportunity for Kubiak and Carr to start to put a stamp on this team.

Thats going under the assumption that Our QB is our leader... and on most teams the QB is the guy...I think that Carr doesnt want to be vocal or single out any players when he himself is not performing at a high level... hopefully kubiak can show him how to be our general and only then will our team begin to pull itself together.

infantrycak
09-20-2006, 02:15 PM
he is probably the highest paid player on the team and #1 pick in the 2002 draft.

AJ actually has the highest cap hit this year and next is being paid as a franchise WR--he needs to perform to the level of his cap hit as well. Let's face it--every #1 pick the Texans have needs to step up their game and prove their worth--Carr, AJ, Dunta, Babin, TJ and Mario. It is time for several of them to at least seriously be in the discussions for the pro-bowl.

eriadoc
09-20-2006, 02:17 PM
If Carr throws a TD every quarter in the next two games, I think the Texans should be able come away with easy victories. The defense will be off the field most of the game, which would be a good thing right now.

The defense took the field with around a minute left in the half versus Philly, when they hadn't tired out yet (we had won the TOP battle at that point) and promptly gave up a TD. Immediately after halftime, they promptly gave up another TD. I really don't see where the defense being on the field too long has been an issue. Unless you're saying that having them on the field at all is a risk, in which case, I would have to agree with you. But I don't think the offense is going to get 60:00 in TOP ;)

infantrycak
09-20-2006, 02:24 PM
The defense took the field with around a minute left in the half versus Philly, when they hadn't tired out yet (we had won the TOP battle at that point) and promptly gave up a TD. Immediately after halftime, they promptly gave up another TD. I really don't see where the defense being on the field too long has been an issue. Unless you're saying that having them on the field at all is a risk, in which case, I would have to agree with you. But I don't think the offense is going to get 60:00 in TOP ;)

Exactly. The Texans had a lead of 10-7 which could have been more but for a drive stalled by poor blitz pick up (and cut short by Kubiak's admitted poor clock management leaving Philly a chance) and the O had the ball for 8 of the 10 minutes from the 11 minute mark. Poor D on back to back series took a lead to an 11 point deficit.

cowboy62
09-20-2006, 02:33 PM
I just want to see them competitive. So far, they've looked like they don't belong in the league.

you said it, they don't belong in the league.

hollywood_texan
09-20-2006, 02:37 PM
The defense took the field with around a minute left in the half versus Philly, when they hadn't tired out yet (we had won the TOP battle at that point) and promptly gave up a TD. Immediately after halftime, they promptly gave up another TD. I really don't see where the defense being on the field too long has been an issue. Unless you're saying that having them on the field at all is a risk, in which case, I would have to agree with you. But I don't think the offense is going to get 60:00 in TOP ;)

It does appear at this time the defense is a risk. So, the longer the offense can hold onto the football and score TDs, the better chance of winning the game because it really isn't in our best interest to have the defense on the field.

Also, if there is a lead, a defensive coordinator can maybe a take a few more chances. Just food for thought.

As for the Philly game, the defense did get an INT and the offense didn't do a thing with that, they just went three and out. Just putting a little balance...

hollywood_texan
09-20-2006, 02:39 PM
AJ actually has the highest cap hit this year and next is being paid as a franchise WR--he needs to perform to the level of his cap hit as well. Let's face it--every #1 pick the Texans have needs to step up their game and prove their worth--Carr, AJ, Dunta, Babin, TJ and Mario. It is time for several of them to at least seriously be in the discussions for the pro-bowl.


Your exactly right, the responsibility does need to be spread around a bit.

CenTexNative
09-20-2006, 02:49 PM
Definately a good article. But personally I don't think you can get a good read on how well, or not, a team is doing until you get about halfway through the season. And more importantly how well they do in the last few games up to the halway point. If they are showing improvement then it's a good thing. If not then something will need to change. And that's just my two bits.

powerfuldragon
09-20-2006, 04:14 PM
Other than the fact that he uses the term 'chill pill' in the heading, i'd say that's a good article. The stuff he's written over the last few weeks is making me warm up to the guy.

Mr teX
09-20-2006, 04:21 PM
[QUOTE=El Tejano;446894]Decent. I just hate having to keep "put things in perspective" after four long years.

I really would like a win on Sunday. Especially since I am going to the game.

yeah but it is what it is. I think everyone on this board would like to win this sunday & i also think that most expected to lose the 1st two as well. The fact of the matter is its a new team, new coaches & its going to take some time for them to gel.

cuppacoffee
09-20-2006, 05:13 PM
Other than the fact that he uses the term 'chill pill' in the heading, i'd say that's a good article. The stuff he's written over the last few weeks is making me warm up to the guy.

Has John fallen off the Titan bandwagon?..:thud: :D


:coffee:

Double Barrel
09-20-2006, 06:16 PM
At this point, I think Carr could post a passing TD in each quarter and have a rating of over 100 and the team would still lose. I'd settle for a 10-7 win, if it just showed the defense playing up to par.

I'd like to see Carr play four quarters of good football. It is a big concern for Kubiak, as well, according to this quote:

"He's [Carr] got to play for four quarters," Kubiak said. "I'm gonna be on his butt until he becomes a four-quarter player."

Honestly, it's a little discouraging that a fifth year QB is questionable about putting together an entire game of solid football. We can blame this and blame that, but at the end of the day, it is what it is.

The next two games will definitely be huge for this franchise. We are looking at two opponents with serious issues of their own, and they are not powerhouse teams like we've already faced.

aj.
09-20-2006, 06:33 PM
I've never really discussed it here for various reasons but my baseline for playing QB waiting games has always been Pastorini.

Dante's first three years in the NFL were a lot like Carr's. When Gilman came in during Pastorini's fourth year and installed his new system (this was several years pre-Earl), Dante's career immediately went from "he sux" to "he's ok" with a lot of the same players still around him.

Gregg Williams is going to blitz the living daylights out of us on Sunday. So will Saban the following week. It will continue until someone, or some group, can make someone else or some other group pay.

thunderkyss
09-20-2006, 08:14 PM
Agreed, but I think from what we have seen this first two weeks, since the Texans appear to be playing lesser opponents, if Carr's play stays the same (the arguement is he is playing better than other people on offense), we should be able to get a couple of victories here.

It just seems surprising that Carr's stats are so important but there seems to be a reluctance to put the team on his back, not to mention he is probably the highest paid player on the team and #1 pick in the 2002 draft. He should shoulder most of the responsibility, regardless of how Kubiak handles the media.

As I said, this is a great opportunity for Kubiak and Carr to start to put a stamp on this team.


I'm pretty close to a Carr Hater....... but I don't think David is reluctant to put the team on his shoulder. If David would've placed his foot two inches to his left, on that one scramble against the Eagles(in the 4th), I think that would have been a big stride for David in becoming this teams undisputable leader like he should be.

IT's really been little things like that, and the consistency in which they occur, that has been stopping Carr from emerging as our leader. IMHO.

But I can see how this high QB rating can actually work against him. If he is not trusting our guy to go up & get the ball, more worried about INTs.... personally, I would hate to play for a QB like that.

brewhaus
09-20-2006, 08:49 PM
:texflag: Everyone is looking for a glimmer of hope by now and win or lose, if the Texans play up to thier potential we are all going to notice it. And if the coaches instrument a game plan that makes this all a reality that is going to be noticed as well. :gotexans1

Timbuck2
09-20-2006, 11:47 PM
good, safe article by mcclain. he brings out good points about new offensive and defensive schemes, new players and coaches, adjustments, blah, blah, blah. but let me digress. imho, carr needs to look at each drive as his own personal mission to get points on the board. quit relying on the defense to make the stops. seems like he's not passing for first downs rather taking the short completion well short of the first down. that's how you get a 123 passing rating. if he keeps this up he'll have the great qb rating and an 0-16 team. the defense needs an attitude adjustment. way too passive. hey, defensive coordinator r. smith, ever hear of an all out blitz? you would think that with the longevity of these players in the nfl that they'd play with more passion. how about adding that to your article, johnny? the texans need to look at the next two games against wash and miami as "the sharks looking at chum" instead of the other way around.

valleytexfan
09-21-2006, 01:16 AM
Nice insight by McClain...I like it. I hope he's not just saying that stuff...he needs to realize that stuff as well.

cuppacoffee
09-21-2006, 08:39 AM
I'm pretty close to a Carr Hater....... but I don't think David is reluctant to put the team on his shoulder. If David would've placed his foot two inches to his left, on that one scramble against the Eagles(in the 4th), I think that would have been a big stride for David in becoming this teams undisputable leader like he should be.

IT's really been little things like that, and the consistency in which they occur, that has been stopping Carr from emerging as our leader. IMHO.

But I can see how this high QB rating can actually work against him. If he is not trusting our guy to go up & get the ball, more worried about INTs.... personally, I would hate to play for a QB like that.

TK You still under the misguided impression that Andre will fight for the ball?

Guy's to timid on the field.

:stirpot:

:coffee:

infantrycak
09-21-2006, 09:08 AM
TK You still under the misguided impression that Andre will fight for the ball?

Guy's to timid on the field.


Don't get me wrong--still a very good WR, but AJ does need to be more aggressive. He is huge for a WR plus tremendously athletic and needs to use those to his advantage.

They should have some designed plays for Carr to throw the ball high when he is covered by guys like Dunta. AJ needs to stretch the bounds of the rules as well. Chad Johnson, TO and many of the greats regularly create room by pushing the limits of the pushing off rules. Just like Aaron Glenn learned to push the limits of the contact rules from the DB side, AJ needs to learn to push the limits from the WR side. Shanahan is failing in his responsibility if we don't see some of this.

jerek
09-21-2006, 09:20 AM
Don't get me wrong--still a very good WR, but AJ does need to be more aggressive. He is huge for a WR plus tremendously athletic and needs to use those to his advantage.

They should have some designed plays for Carr to throw the ball high when he is covered by guys like Dunta. AJ needs to stretch the bounds of the rules as well. Chad Johnson, TO and many of the greats regularly create room by pushing the limits of the pushing off rules. Just like Aaron Glenn learned to push the limits of the contact rules from the DB side, AJ needs to learn to push the limits from the WR side. Shanahan is failing in his responsibility if we don't see some of this.

I don't understand why we haven't seen more of the "Randy ratio" in effect for Andre. Not that I want Carr to throw to him if he's just not open, but IMO, there are many routes in which Andre, 1 on 1, is "open" almost by default. Throw him a good pass and let him use his size and strength to go get it. I don't mean to oversimplify it but I think Carr would do well to go to Andre more, especially when he's one on one, and yes, Andre needs to get better as a receiver. I used to dream that we would bring in Jerry Rice as a receivers coach; then we got Moulds, who I still think is plenty capable as a mentor.

infantrycak
09-21-2006, 09:28 AM
I don't understand why we haven't seen more of the "Randy ratio" in effect for Andre. Not that I want Carr to throw to him if he's just not open, but IMO, there are many routes in which Andre, 1 on 1, is "open" almost by default. Throw him a good pass and let him use his size and strength to go get it. I don't mean to oversimplify it but I think Carr would do well to go to Andre more, especially when he's one on one, and yes, Andre needs to get better as a receiver. I used to dream that we would bring in Jerry Rice as a receivers coach; then we got Moulds, who I still think is plenty capable as a mentor.

I don't want to see an Andre ratio--in fact kind of the opposite. When Carr and AJ were in a pitch and catch groove in 2004 it opened up the other WR's and two thirds of the balls went their way--everyone gained. During that time AJ was making spectacular catches going up over double coverage, not dropping balls, etc. Now since the 2nd half of 2004 Carr seems to have a much tighter definition of open but AJ has to make the plays like the missed one in pre-season as well. Call that a misthrown ball if you want (wrong IMO--misjudged by the WR) but those are the balls great WR's get to make the difference--see Plaxico making the tipped spinning reception to almost come back on the Colts.

jerek
09-21-2006, 09:51 AM
I don't want to see an Andre ratio--in fact kind of the opposite. When Carr and AJ were in a pitch and catch groove in 2004 it opened up the other WR's and two thirds of the balls went their way--everyone gained. During that time AJ was making spectacular catches going up over double coverage, not dropping balls, etc. Now since the 2nd half of 2004 Carr seems to have a much tighter definition of open but AJ has to make the plays like the missed one in pre-season as well. Call that a misthrown ball if you want (wrong IMO--misjudged by the WR) but those are the balls great WR's get to make the difference--see Plaxico making the tipped spinning reception to almost come back on the Colts.

I don't care if Andre puts up 500 yards for the season with 3000 to go around to everyone else if we win. I agree that Andre will still command the most attention -- nobody is worried about Moulds or Walter burning them to the end zone -- just to state that IMO, Andre's physical gifts are such that he is technically "open" even while covered in a number of circumstances. Again, no point in throwing bad balls or forcing it, especially if another receiver is more open, but I see QBs on other teams frequently challenging even good 1-on-1 coverage on their elite receivers and I think we could certainly get away with having that mindset with AJ.

AJ has almost always had a problem with drops to certain extent, and he needs to improve. I too thought he just misjudged that long pass in preseason and should've come up with it. He's still a top-10 WR in this league and IMO we could profit in utilizing him a little more, that's all.

PoolMaster21
09-21-2006, 10:39 AM
I've never really discussed it here for various reasons but my baseline for playing QB waiting games has always been Pastorini.

Dante's first three years in the NFL were a lot like Carr's. When Gilman came in during Pastorini's fourth year and installed his new system (this was several years pre-Earl), Dante's career immediately went from "he sux" to "he's ok" with a lot of the same players still around him.

Gregg Williams is going to blitz the living daylights out of us on Sunday. So will Saban the following week. It will continue until someone, or some group, can make someone else or some other group pay.

A history lesson! Pastorini was considered all arm, no brain (or heart) those first few years.

What I would really like to see is for Carr and the offense to start punishing mediocre teams when they blitz. Unless you have a top-notch secondary, a blitz is a defensive tactic used to cover weakness. Let's have our offense go on the offensive.

:fans:

Rightnow
09-21-2006, 11:59 AM
There's an article today about how the defense reverted back to last year after they gave up some points.

Chron story here. (http://chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4203032.html)

Weaver weighed in on the question of the Texans' attitude, which he admitted is "fragile" going into this week's game.

In business organizations a losing attitude can take years to change. The whole "coporate culture". It is faster to change on an NFL team because you can faster replace the management (GM and coaches) and employees (players), but it will still take time. Kubiak and Smith may have to shed more Capers/Casserly players until the team starts to believe they can win.

It sounds to me like they are trying to convince themselves they can win by talking, but actions speak louder than words. I really hope they win this Sunday or it might break the spirit of the team and they could end up winning just two or three games this year. They should play through it, they are paid a ton of money, but they are still human.

thunderkyss
09-21-2006, 12:00 PM
TK You still under the misguided impression that Andre will fight for the ball?

Guy's to timid on the field.

:stirpot:

:coffee:

That's what the other ProBowl reciever is out their for. Throw it to him..... ease up the coverage on AJ............ & let's play some football.

thunderkyss
09-21-2006, 12:04 PM
Call that a misthrown ball if you want (wrong IMO--misjudged by the WR) but those are the balls great WR's get to make the difference--see Plaxico making the tipped spinning reception to almost come back on the Colts.

Just to clarify.... if I said the ball was Misthrown, I meant the ball could've been placed better. AJ had inside position, & was "ahead" of the Corner...... lay it out in front of him(there was no safety), don't make him have to go backwards to get the ball.


He still should've caught it..... we pay him to catch those.... but we also pay the other guy to make better decisions.....

Runner
09-21-2006, 12:09 PM
...
The whole "coporate culture". It is faster to change on an NFL team because you can faster replace the management (GM and coaches) and employees (players), but it will still take time. Kubiak and Smith may have to shed more Capers/Casserly players until the team starts to believe they can win.
...

This sounds good in theory, but there are a couple of problems with it. First of all, it can create a divisive atmosphere in the clubhouse if the old players vs. new players separation gets out of hand.

Second, if not done carefully the team ends up playing other than their best players at each position, because “new” trumps performance. This again causes confusion in the clubhouse (are we trying to win or not), and if the best players aren’t playing then more losing results and your new players are now losers.

It is tough to make changes based on perceived mental states.