PDA

View Full Version : Both sides of are grasping at straws!!


gtexan02
09-18-2006, 01:34 PM
This board is completely split.

Half the people seem to love Carr, the others hate him.

Half the people are willing to give the team a chance to improve over the long run, the other half are claiming the season is over.

Half the people are willing to give Kubiak the benefit of the doubt, the others are comparing him with Capers.

Why can't we all just agree to disagree? Both sides are totally grasping at straws.

The Carr lovers claim Carr has a passer rating of 124, the haters say its all garbage stats. The Carr lovers claim the problems are the defense and teh OL, the haters claim its all Carr. The "give it time" people claim we've played great teams, the haters claim we haven't played great teams well enough. The Kubiak lovers claim he needs time to implement his style, the haters claim we are actually getting worse.

Doesn't everyone see that its impossible to tell this early? Neither side of these arguments has much to work on after 2 games, so why not just agree to wait? You know Rosenfels isn't going to start after Carr puts up a 140 QB rating, whether or not it was in garbage time, so why even bother starting 20 threads about it?

I'm guilty as much as anyone else for posting these comparison pro or anti, but its getting crazy in here!

D-Vizzl
09-18-2006, 01:47 PM
I feel ya dog, the thing is if your performance at your job was no good, what do you think the people would want from you. On the other hand the co-workers close to you and who like you will justify your mediocrity, that's what I think is going here. As far as for David, in two games this year I can find alot wrong with this team and he is not that high on the list. The problem I have with him is that he is trying too hard not to make a mistake, what I mean is he has no int's but he hasn't really opened up the passing game, and with defensive schemes that we have faced the last two weeks the middle of the field is almost always open, but i'm open to the fact that it may be the gameplan, not the QB.

El Tejano
09-18-2006, 01:58 PM
This board is completely split.

The Carr lovers claim Carr has a passer rating of 124, the haters say its all garbage stats.
You know Rosenfels isn't going to start after Carr puts up a 140 QB rating, whether or not it was in garbage time, so why even bother starting 20 threads about it?


Those are the same people that want Rosenfels to start and he hasn't necessarily played in the greatest of situations either.

real
09-18-2006, 02:00 PM
I honestly don't know why we are talking about Carr...He is clearly not the issue at this point...

eriadoc
09-18-2006, 02:21 PM
Try and remember back to the first play of the game. If you saw that play happen and immediately were upset with Carr, then you are obviously beyond objective reasoning. Be honest with yourself and excuse yourself from all Carr-related threads from here on, please.

As to the original post, I kind of thought differently. I figure you have a very vocal minority (what? 10 posters?) that rag on Carr no matter what he does. You probably have that many that defend Carr no matter what he does. Then you have a bunch of us that realize, at this point, Carr doesn't rank in the top five reasons why we're losing football games. He may or may not be the solution at QB - we'll find that out as the season progresses. That's what we all said prior to the season and two games does not change that.

If I have started to form any opinion at all over the first two games as to the long-term outlook, it's that it won't matter who they put at QB short-term. They need to fix the defensive and offensive lines. Assuming Travis Johnson starts to pan out, then you figure they've taken steps on the defensive line, along with Weaver, Babin, Peek, and Mario. As for the offensive line, I don't see it. We all glossed positively about the Flanagan signing, but I haven't been impressed by him yet and the GB fans were saying he's past his prime and wasn't worth re-signing. We're all excited about the Spencer and Winston draft picks, but Winston has had zero impact on this team, even during the preseason, and Spencer's gone for the year now. Add to that the Wand cut, Wiegert moving to RT, and Salaam being our primary backup (now starter) and I don't feel much better about this O-line than I did last year going into the season with Victor Riley.

The QB is the most highly scrutinized position on the field, so he'll catch a great deal of criticism, even when that standard is not applied to the other "stars" on our team. Carr deserves criticism, but right now, he's just not a primary reason we're losing ball games.

AggieTexanFan
09-18-2006, 02:21 PM
When our defense gives up over 500 yards total and 400 through the air, carr could have had the game of his life, just like the Vikings game where Carr lit it up, and still lose, just like the Vikings game.

It just sounds stupid how people are dogging Carr when you look at what he did compared to what the rest of the team did. Sage would have lost just as bad, maybe worst. But I guess people would be happy if the game had the same result, as long as Sage was in there. Freakin stupid.

hollywood_texan
09-18-2006, 02:34 PM
Try and remember back to the first play of the game. If you saw that play happen and immediately were upset with Carr, then you are obviously beyond objective reasoning. Be honest with yourself and excuse yourself from all Carr-related threads from here on, please.



You make a very good point here. And I think that first play was Kubiak's fault. That was just terrible play calling.

However, after a training camp, preseason, and one regular season, the best play the Texans have is that naked bootleg. Which the Eagles took away after the first drive in Week 1.

It wasn't Carr's fault directly. But, the offense as a whole is limited because they can only run a limited amount of plays from what I have seen. The Texans do not use the entire part of the field.

Who's fault is that?

Probably, the answer is Kubiak. But, part of the problem is limitations with personnel, which probably includes Carr to some extent, regardless of his completion % and QB rating.

This whole team stinks.

And if Carr is so good or great, the best thing for him is to go somewhere else. This organization needs 2 to 3 years to get competitive and 3-4 for playoffs, huh maybe Super Bowl? I don't see how Carr can last that long with the way this team is playing right now.

Probably the best thing for Carr and his career, and at least the Texans can get some value before this thing gets really ugly. This thing could get a lot worse because this entire team could just quit.

After Washington and Miami, if this is the same old situation, they really need to consider that, particularly if Carr still has the high completion % and an outrageous QB rating with zero interceptions. Probably the best for both parties, let Carr try it somewhere else.

FILO_girl
09-18-2006, 02:43 PM
My outlook has not changed one iota. I am not fond of the David Carr experiment as I feel he is not our answer or leader, but he is our QB and I am a fan of this team. I am not a hater, but a Carr Doubter, waiting to be proved wrong.













Still waiting. And waiting. C'mon, prove me wrong.....please!

But no matter, he is here and we need to deal with it. I am doing the best that I can, to do just that. Next time, I will throw my resume in the hat for HC but since I didn't this round...I must just sit back and watch. Same goes for the rest of you armchair Kubiaks. Did you apply? :challenge

The entire team laid a stink pickle in Indy. Like one rabid Texans fan told me on the other board...."they (Texans FO) should have made them walk home."

You're right Gary. They should have. :ok:

eriadoc
09-18-2006, 02:44 PM
This whole team stinks.

Amen.

And if Carr is so good or great, the best thing for him is to go somewhere else. This organization needs 2 to 3 years to get competitive and 3-4 for playoffs, huh maybe Super Bowl? I don't see how Carr can last that long with the way this team is playing right now.

Probably the best thing for Carr and his career, and at least the Texans can get some value before this thing gets really ugly. This thing could get a lot worse because this entire team could just quit.

After Washington and Miami, if this is the same old situation, they really need to consider that, particularly if Carr still has the high completion % and an outrageous QB rating with zero interceptions. Probably the best for both parties, let Carr try it somewhere else.

It won't happen, though. First, it's not like we have a real option at backup. Heck, we only have two QBs on the roster, actually. Assuming anothe rteam would want to take a chance on Carr, what would they give up? A draft pick? Maybe, but then who do you start? Sage, backed up by Porter, backed up by Cody Pickett, if those guys are still around to be signed. That's a major step back; I don't care how much anyone dislikes Carr.

Realistically, Carr will play out this season and the next. If Kubiak feels that Carr really isn't the man for the job after this year, I'd like for them to draft a QB and have him sit for a year as Carr finishes out his contract.

cuppacoffee
09-18-2006, 04:05 PM
Amen.

................

Realistically, Carr will play out this season and the next. If Kubiak feels that Carr really isn't the man for the job after this year, I'd like for them to draft a QB and have him sit for a year as Carr finishes out his contract.

The voice of reason.

I feel this is exactly what we should do. I have been a Carr backer from the get go...still am..but this is his year to step up or step aside. No.. I don't expect miracles if he is flat on his back, but when he is upright I need to see something to keep me in his camp.


:coffee:

HJam72
09-18-2006, 04:12 PM
I'm in the Pickett is God, we have the best pass blockers in world, Moulds is too old, Sherman for HC, Kubiak for DC, Fangio for OC, Flanagan for LT, Pitts for RB, and Carr for RDE group. IT'S PAY BACK TIME *****!!!

geofb
09-18-2006, 04:17 PM
I honestly don't know why we are talking about Carr...He is clearly not the issue at this point...

You are right. I think there are a variety of reasons. The draft VY crowd was so bent after the Texans chose to not draft him, they decided to take it out of Carr. Now he will be crucified week in and week out regardless of how he plays.

It's interesting, Houston was likely the only metropolitan area in the country that thought the right #1 pick for the Texans was VY. That was even pointed out on this board back at the time. Now, if you took a poll of every metropolitan area of the country and asked if David Carr is a legitimate starting NFL QB, he might get the lowest % of votes in Houston vs. any other city. As you point out, I think it's pretty obvious to the unbiased observer that David Carr is not the issue as to why we are off to a bad start. But you'd never guess that by reading this board.

real
09-18-2006, 04:26 PM
You are right. I think there are a variety of reasons. The draft VY crowd was so bent after the Texans chose to not draft him, they decided to take it out of Carr. Now he will be crucified week in and week out regardless of how he plays.

It's interesting, Houston was likely the only metropolitan area in the country that thought the right #1 pick for the Texans was VY. That was even pointed out on this board back at the time. Now, if you took a poll of every metropolitan area of the country and asked if David Carr is a legitimate starting NFL QB, he might get the lowest % of votes in Houston vs. any other city. As you point out, I think it's pretty obvious to the unbiased observer that David Carr is not the issue as to why we are off to a bad start. But you'd never guess that by reading this board.

I'll agree with you to a certain extent....I think in the end when it's all said and done the Texans may regret passing on Young, and I hate to say it...but maybe even Bush...Not because Mario sucks, But I think those two players(VY in particular) are going to be able to put their team on their backs...Maybe not so much Bush but I can see VY as that type of player...But we just don't know...only time will tell...

Vinny
09-18-2006, 04:28 PM
Realistically, Carr will play out this season and the next. If Kubiak feels that Carr really isn't the man for the job after this year, I'd like for them to draft a QB and have him sit for a year as Carr finishes out his contract.That puts this franchise at around 2009 before it has a serious QB ready to play at a high level? No way that happens imo.

If Carr doesn't pan out this year I'd bet just about anything we go after a veteran. Jake Plummer is the most logical choice if you follow the trends. No way Cutler sits next year.

TheOgre
09-18-2006, 05:12 PM
Oh I thought the title read "Both sides are made of straw." That would be very appropriate if we were talking about our two lines.

cred
09-18-2006, 05:39 PM
I'll agree with you to a certain extent....I think in the end when it's all said and done the Texans may regret passing on Young, and I hate to say it...but maybe even Bush...Not because Mario sucks, But I think those two players(VY in particular) are going to be able to put their team on their backs...Maybe not so much Bush but I can see VY as that type of player...But we just don't know...only time will tell...



Dude, I am curious what are you smoking and where can I get it, because what exactly has VY done with the, what 25 pass attempts of both reg season games because I didn't see him put anything on his shoulders so far this season? Big difference from the college level.

MightyTExan
09-18-2006, 05:49 PM
I love my Texans, but this whole mess is starting to mess with my head..............:tease:
I just want to see the Texans resemble an actual NFL team instead of being an embaressment. :hides:

eriadoc
09-18-2006, 05:58 PM
That puts this franchise at around 2009 before it has a serious QB ready to play at a high level? No way that happens imo.

If Carr doesn't pan out this year I'd bet just about anything we go after a veteran. Jake Plummer is the most logical choice if you follow the trends. No way Cutler sits next year.

2008, by my estimation. Look at what the Bengals did. They drafted Palmer after they'd already started fixing the rest of the team and after a year on the bench, he came in ready to play. Give Kubiak a year with a fresh, young QB and I don't see why he couldn't pull it off. We don't even need numbers like Carson put up - just manage the game (look at Big Ben). The worst thing that could happen is to get a rookie QB and throw him to the wolves with this team around him. Getting Jake Plummer or any other vet wouldn't buy much, IMO. The rest of the team is not ready to compete at playoff level and they've already paid Carr. I guess if Carr's cap hit for cutting him is negligible and his base salary for 2007 is higher than what they would spend on a veteran QB that was worth picking up, then they could go that route. It's a pretty lateral move, if you ask me. If you're going to upgrade the position, fix the foundation first, then do it. JMO.

Buffi2
09-18-2006, 06:06 PM
I love my Texans, but this whole mess is starting to mess with my head..............:tease:
I just want to see the Texans resemble an actual NFL team instead of being an embaressment. :hides:
Exactly! :brickwall

Kaiser Toro
09-18-2006, 06:09 PM
This board is completely split.

Half the people seem to love Carr, the others hate him.

Half the people are willing to give the team a chance to improve over the long run, the other half are claiming the season is over.

Half the people are willing to give Kubiak the benefit of the doubt, the others are comparing him with Capers.

Why can't we all just agree to disagree? Both sides are totally grasping at straws.

The Carr lovers claim Carr has a passer rating of 124, the haters say its all garbage stats. The Carr lovers claim the problems are the defense and teh OL, the haters claim its all Carr. The "give it time" people claim we've played great teams, the haters claim we haven't played great teams well enough. The Kubiak lovers claim he needs time to implement his style, the haters claim we are actually getting worse.

Doesn't everyone see that its impossible to tell this early? Neither side of these arguments has much to work on after 2 games, so why not just agree to wait? You know Rosenfels isn't going to start after Carr puts up a 140 QB rating, whether or not it was in garbage time, so why even bother starting 20 threads about it?

I'm guilty as much as anyone else for posting these comparison pro or anti, but its getting crazy in here!

The sides are perpetuated due to us losing. This will not change until we win or at least show us that we are measurably improving. Once we start winning the discourse should change to a more civil and engaging dialogue.