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View Full Version : Building through the draft---Worth it or not?


gtexan02
09-17-2006, 10:23 PM
I recently read a thread comparing the past 3 expansion franchises, and an interesting bit of information stood out. The Jags and Panthers went after experienced vets who made an instant change, and then had trouble replacing them.

As the HC of the Texans, Capers wanted to avoid this by building through the draft, using young players at key positions to build a team that would be a contender for years.

We all know the draft is anything but an exact science. It'd be interesting to find out what the average draft position of a starting NFL player (my guess its pretty high). You can geet all-pro players in the end of round 1 just as easily as you can in the beginning it seems. A lot of it is based on coaching, system, and surrounding teammates.

With that said, do you think building through the draft is working? I mean, yes I know we have to be patient and all that business that everyone is constantly forcing into us here on the board, but I feel like we've been patient. We were promised a 3 year plan, and that came and went. I know we're starting a new regime and it will take time to adjust, but teams with a high level of talent can bring in a new coach and immediately turn things around. Our failures just scream no-talent, which given our previous records, seems tough to rationalize. i mean, teams that finish in last place should theoretically have the most talent right?

So I say, no matter how the seasons ends, we need to make a big splash in FA or trade our picks for proven players (the Moulds trade is a perfect example). Im so glad we cut so many high-cap vets so we can pick up some expensive, but proven, nfl talent caliber players.

BlueThunder
09-17-2006, 10:35 PM
Building thru the draft is always the way to move toward,but you have to have a balance of vets to carry the team.The problem with this team is not totally talent.The problem with this team is they got to young to fast.Right now as I said before, our secondary is to young and not ready.Before you start thinking replace a poor talented team,lets not forget that we have film and 14 more games to develope what we have before we morgage the farm.I would like to see more beef in the secondary maybe at CB and Safety but somewhere you have to bring in experence before you take on more projects.Buchanon had a pretty good preseason,.Small but could be used more in some packages..We are just terrible and really look poor coached in the secondary.We have film and this kind of beating can't happen again at the end of this year and not have change.We have a young team and film,so lets get this done.:whip:

If we do get torched I could see picking up a bigger Shut down CB at his 4th year in the league just coming into his own.Those are the best players to go after,everything else is just stop gap..This process speeds up the developement of the team..

I was looking at Kelly Herndon and Ken Hamlin types that have there high cap players and theres tags in use...Those are the team to hit for up comers..

texflex513
09-17-2006, 10:37 PM
If this years draft was an indication then in about 2 more seasons drafting and coaching we should be a really good team. I think our upcoming drafts will get better and better each year.

utahmark
09-17-2006, 10:49 PM
it didnt work. we should be good by now. it wasnt the stratagy however it was the people we had carrying out the stratagy.

Hervoyel
09-17-2006, 10:55 PM
If the way to go was trading our picks for veterans and signing a lot of free agents then the Redskins would all be sporting multiple Super Bowl rings.

They're not because it's a little bit of both. You need to draft well and you need to know when to add that free agent (and when to pass on him too).

Scooter
09-17-2006, 11:28 PM
yes, you have to build through the draft. the team that i use as my example of "how it's supposed to be" is the steelers. last year their starting superbowl roster consisted of 20 players that had only worn black and gold. we cant compare ourselves to the steelers. they're starting draft picks from the early 90's ... something that's obviously impossible for us to do. their entire offensive and defensive lines are draftees, and only one player was drafted after 2002 (max starks, 2004). comparing us to the panthers or jaguars is just unfair because there wasnt anything remotely near the talent pool available for us, nor for the browns. we cant, and wont have that kind of talent this early, although we're moving towards it at a relatively good pace.

what we did this year, and have to continue on is not only accumulating that "home grown talent", but drafting well. again using the steelers, they're a strength team. big nasties that play mean and fit cowher's pure athleticism style. look at who they draft. polumalu. porter. roethlisberger. faneca. hampton. kreider. there's not an ounce of finesse on that team, and that's done on purpose. we dont play that style, although that's the talent pool that kubiak came into because it's what capers tried (unsuccessfully) to build. we're running a speed team, and are farther in the hole because of the total switch. mario. dunta. ryans. spencer. daniels. flanagan. putzier. these guys are speed & finesse. it's going to take kubiak and company many years to put together 50+ players that fit his mold. what we hope for until then is that scheme and coaching can compensate and keep these guys competitive.

i'm rambling. yes, we have to build through the draft, BUT it's unfair to this franchise to compare us to anyone else because we simply havent been around long enough to acquire 15+ years worth of draft picks as a foundation.

BlueThunder
09-17-2006, 11:46 PM
You can't just build only thru the draft because this team needs upgrades now,not 4 years from now.We need both and if a player don't start showing in three years we need to go a different direction.If we find a suprise at a position and can trade one to fill another spot with a solid starter then we should go that route...Draft and picking up players goes on about 9 months out of the year but never ends..

:logo: :trophy:

I WANT TO WIN YESTERDAY

hollywood_texan
09-17-2006, 11:50 PM
Building through the draft is a lot cheaper and easier to manage the salary cap than building a team through free agency (which isn't exact science either).

JDizzle
09-17-2006, 11:56 PM
If the way to go was trading our picks for veterans and signing a lot of free agents then the Redskins would all be sporting multiple Super Bowl rings.

They're not because it's a little bit of both. You need to draft well and you need to know when to add that free agent (and when to pass on him too).

Good post and I agree. Overall we had a pretty good draft as well as a couple key veteran additions in Moulds and Weaver. The Moulds trade looks to be our best offseason move thus far IMO, and we got some pretty good talent in the draft. Daniels, Ryans, Spencer ... all good picks from what I've seen. Hopefully we can get Winston to suit up soon and see if he can beat out Zach Weak-gert for starting RT.

BlueThunder
09-17-2006, 11:57 PM
You want to add youth but this is a business and winning is what sales.Start winning and you can build totally thru the draft but every now and then you have to go to market...Everyone does even the Steeler..:whip:

My theory is don't go to the draft for starters,,,if you get them in the draft then its only a plus..

Most 1st and 2nd rounder should start within the first year for money reasons..

I hope we can get our secondary stopping someone first this year.Two is to pick up a solid starter 4 years in at fare value) or experenced vet picked up at budget on maybe a year)If we fill the spot with a young starter then we draft late there.If we go experenced we draft early and get time with the one year vet as stop gap..You can't go the same way every time...We have a few young players that need time and could take a back seat to develope till there ready..Every team is in different situations at different positions.Some players were not ready to give up on but need more time to develope.You have to win now as a team or die as individuals..As sad as it is I don't see Kubiak lasting more then 3 years without taking the division or a playoff birth.The Corordinators may not last past a season if there isn't improvement as the season goes on.I myself would fire there azz.

threetoedpete
09-18-2006, 12:53 AM
If the way to go was trading our picks for veterans and signing a lot of free agents then the Redskins would all be sporting multiple Super Bowl rings.

They're not because it's a little bit of both. You need to draft well and you need to know when to add that free agent (and when to pass on him too).

agreed: Didn't you do a thread about four weeks ago on this ? "What were you wrong about ? "

It didn't work because 1. We were royally screwed by the other thirty one owners over expansion compensation. 2. CC went out and got the players Capers and Fangio wanted. 3. A lot of those players either we're busts or reaches that didn't pan out.

My memory is not good enough to come up with all of the bust and since the mods have seen fit to lobodimise the archives... I ain't spending a couple of hours on it. No one saw Gary Walkers wheels coming off the wagon last year.
Now at the time...every one was excited about getting the guy...at the time.
We are in a hole because we don't have enough tallent to compete with NFL caliber starters. And I don't care how many starters were in the game on the last series, Untill Dungy called off the dogs at the half, the Texans couldn't compete with them. Yes he called off the dogs. The went to work with their rushing attack for next week. This was a tune up preseason practice for the Colts.

Bosselli, Ryan Tucker, Gaffney, Hollings, Walker, Wand, The player who I swore I wouldn't gripe about this year via Oakland. On and on and on.

Now in 78, 79 & 80 the Bud franchise did what you are advocating in here. Sign up vets and spend draft picks on trades for vets. That was the main personel Bum Phillips used with those teams. It got them to the play offs and conference chapionship games. But in the end that splurge cost them several years in the celler. Is that what you want ?

Now I'm old school. I do not believe in 235 MLBs. I freely admit that Demeeko is a tackling machine. But, Lucy could pound the rock at the middle of our defense. Is it Meecos fault ? DT's ? Or could it be the current starters lack the athletic ablity to compete with the top fifteen teams ? We'll find out the next three games. We don't have the personel to play man coverage. And we don't have the ablity to defend out of the two deep. Not against a top five qb. We ain't done it yet this year. Plus the fact, still, we do not have the athletes to put pressure on the qb against a good offnsive line.

We're two and fourteen last year for a reason. It wasn't a few plays here and there. It wasn't a fluke of the bounce of the ball, missed feild goald, ect. Our players are not upper echelon and the coaches are going to need some time to sweep out the pantry. No excuse for Andre Johnson to drop the passes he dropped to day. The body trapping instead of hand snatching the ball out of the air should of been solved last season. Is he an all pro player are not ? We're paying him like he's one aren't we ? I saw Rice drop a few. But not because the ball was delivered on the wrong shoulder. Stupid rookie mistake. He makes way too much money to make it.

I said all of that to write this: If you do not hold the course and build through the draft the odds of becoming a really good football team deminishes by a factor of ten. I can recall only two franchises that made that system work, trading for vets, spending draft picks on vets, The Jack Pardee Redskins and the Plunket Radiers. I'm sure there might be arguments for more...but that's twice in fourty years in the modern era. You build a team inside out. Through the draft. When you get close....Like the Eagles did just a couple of weeks ago with Stallworth, then you spend your draft capitol on the chance at the brass ring. They may well do what you are advocating. My book says it won't work. Not because I'm a football Einstien. But because NFL history says it doesn't work. You build a team from the inside out, through the draft. Being cautious and prudent with your free agent aquasitions. And so far this franchise has done none of those things. There are no quick fixes. Loosing Spencer absolutly killed this football team. Just like the football team who beat our brains out today....adn last week. You gotta have a tallented intact o-line toghter for a season to mount a consistant attack. Fools will point to Carr. People who know will realize...this will be five years in a row that five compitent guys on our o-line haven't been able to work together for more than a half a season span. We just can't seem to stay healthy there. Comon bond on all of the good lines in the league is they are tallented and they've worked toghether for a while. How many years do we have to keep scrambling there befor it gets fixed ? Nigerian Hammer ? Looks more like a disaster to me. Sherman should sitck to the o-line and leave the personel plagues to Rick Smith. My book says this injury put us back into 2005. Sherman's fault. He gets to fix it. We're well on our way to another 2-14. And, we're looking for another OLT. Mindboggleing. JMHO.

jagibelieve
09-18-2006, 07:56 AM
In my opinion, building through the draft is by far the best way to go, but that goes with something else. When drafting talent, you ALWAYS should take the best available player, rather than draft for a need. Without getting into the whole "Mario vs. Bush" debate, the only comment that I'll make with your first selection was that it seemed to me to be a pick for need more than best available player.

Also, free agency should be limited to the "bargain" players. Someone already used the Redskins as an example of a team going after "big name, high priced" free agents, and squandering their draft picks. In my opinion, the Redskins are way overrated just because of "name recognition" on their roster. Just watch what happens to them when the "cap monster" comes to visit them.

An example of a team that has mastered the draft-and-develop philosophy is the New England Patriots. They aren't afraid to let higher priced vets go for draft picks. Look at some of the vets they let go over the last 4 or 5 seasons, and what they got in return, from the draft.

New_Texans
09-18-2006, 08:03 AM
The texans will have to build via the draft if they want to be an elite team in this league.

No, David Carr is not the problem.

Historyhorn
09-18-2006, 02:33 PM
The draft is the only way to go to garner anything resembling consistent success. Teams that go for the free agent splash usually end up being barely in the playoffs or barely out of the playoffs. In other words, decent teams but no truly great ones.

The Texans had a good/great draft this last year. They went with the longterm view of drafting players to strengthen the O-line and front seven on the D. Taking Williams over Bush was not a mistake, it was a look into how this team will build from here on out. Substance over style.

I believe it will take two more solid to great drafts for us to be a consistently good football team. Maybe not Superbowl, but a legitimate playoff team without sneaking in the back door or anything. So that puts us at being a good football team sometime around 2008, with the beginnings of some hopefully golden years in 2009.

That's a long time to wait. We'll have shaken off the bandwagon fans by then, and anyone who will have wanted lower level seats should be able to have picked them up by then too. We've got to buckle down and suffer through this. CC and DC have done long-term harm to this franchise and it will take some time to mend things.

Go Texans