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dantem
09-17-2006, 09:38 PM
I just finished watching the Tivo of the game 1 play at a time to see how Mario Williams had improved since the first game. I did not notice this stuff during the Game but I thought it was interesting.

Beat = Beat his man and was headed for Manning forcing a quicker throw
Tackle = Tackles
Grasp = Had Manning in his Grasp during the throw
Force = Forced Manning to slide or go out of bounds
Off = Off Sides
Stand = Standing around clueless
Held = Blatantly Held and no Holding Call

1st Quarter - only in on Half of the downs
Beat-2
Held-2

2nd Quarter
Beat-2
Tackle-1
Stand-1

3rd Quarter
Beat-1
Tackle-1
Grasp-3
Force-1
0ff-1
Held-3

4th Quarter
Beat-2
Tackle-1
Force-1

So basically in a game against a very good Offensive line he...

Made 3 Tackles
Beat his man and pressured the QB 7 times
Had the QB in his Grasp 3 times when the ball was released
Forced the QB to slide or out of bounds 2 times
Was off sides 1 time
Was standing around 1 time
Was held 5 times with no call - (happens all the time in the NFL) but shows desperation on the offensive linemanís part

I call that a major leap forward from last week.

Kaiser Toro
09-17-2006, 09:43 PM
Nice breakdown.

texflex513
09-17-2006, 09:46 PM
I just finished watching the Tivo of the game 1 play at a time to see how Mario Williams had improved since the first game. I did not notice this stuff during the Game but I thought it was interesting.

Beat = Beat his man and was headed for Manning forcing a quicker throw
Tackle = Tackles
Grasp = Had Manning in his Grasp during the throw
Force = Forced Manning to slide or go out of bounds
Off = Off Sides
Stand = Standing around clueless
Held = Blatantly Held and no Holding Call

1st Quarter - only in on Half of the downs
Beat-2
Held-2

2nd Quarter
Beat-2
Tackle-1
Stand-1

3rd Quarter
Beat-1
Tackle-1
Grasp-3
Force-1
0ff-1
Held-3

4th Quarter
Beat-2
Tackle-1
Force-1

So basically in a game against a very good Offensive line he...

Made 3 Tackles
Beat his man and pressured the QB 7 times
Had the QB in his Grasp 3 times when the ball was released
Forced the QB to slide or out of bounds 2 times
Was off sides 1 time
Was standing around 1 time
Was held 5 times with no call - (happens all the time in the NFL) but shows desperation on the offensive linemanís part

I call that a major leap forward from last week. Finally a broke down analysis of Mario's play thanks... was much needed rather than reading worthless babble from the media.

Houston_Fanatic
09-17-2006, 09:58 PM
I thought Mario looked better this week, but it's nice to have it broken down so succinctly.

Thanks!

whiskeyrbl
09-17-2006, 10:01 PM
Nice breakdown. I think if they leave him at DE like they did in this game. I believe Brunell will be his first casualty.

Honoring Earl 34
09-17-2006, 10:03 PM
I saw Mario's burst upfield for the first time today . With his strength ... I still think he's going to be a beast .

dantem
09-17-2006, 10:05 PM
from what I saw today he should do well against the average offensive lines, and I am hoping by the end of the season he will be a force. I was really concerned the first game... he looked lost and lazy, but this one was much better.

newport texan
09-17-2006, 10:08 PM
i concur... i noticed the improvement as well! how great is TIVO-nice breakdown!

Houston_Fanatic
09-17-2006, 10:18 PM
Nice breakdown. I think if they leave him at DE like they did in this game. I believe Brunell will be his first casualty.

Like the one I just saw on the Dallas game???

muahahaha...!!!!!

:fireball: ---> Brunell

run-david-run
09-17-2006, 10:26 PM
I agree he has gotten better...but at times it seemed he was content on trying to get upfield and rush the passer on a running play and they would run right behind him. Obviously he is a rookie and is not gonna outsmart Peyton Manning, but I hope this isnt because of the pressure on him to get sacks and make plays. He just has to play within himself....and get an inside move..cmon Mario!

yourfavoritetexan42
09-17-2006, 10:31 PM
MARIO WILLIAMS SUCKED, ONCE HE PUTS UP 9 SACKS IN A GAME THEN HE WILL BE HALF OF WAT REGGIE BUSH HAS BEEN...REGGIE BUSH HAD 150+ YARDS LAST WEEK... MARIO WILLIAMS ONLY HAD 3 TACKLES? WHAT IS THAT 20 MILLION DOLLARS PER TACKLE? WE SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN VINCE YOUNG AND PUT HIM BACK THERE WITH DAVID CARR THAT WAY NO ONE COULD KNOW WHICH QB WE ARE USING THAT PLAY!


now my actual response:
i agree, much improvement... i did the same thing but you beat me to it... i just used + and - like our coaches do for our hs team. he would have graded out at 95%... which is very good ... at least in high school... so i thought he improved... he just hasnt made those huge plays yet...those will come.

dantem
09-17-2006, 10:35 PM
MARIO WILLIAMS SUCKED, ONCE HE PUTS UP 9 SACKS IN A GAME THEN HE WILL BE HALF OF WAT REGGIE BUSH HAS BEEN...REGGIE BUSH HAD 150+ YARDS LAST WEEK... MARIO WILLIAMS ONLY HAD 3 TACKLES? WHAT IS THAT 20 MILLION DOLLARS PER TACKLE? WE SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN VINCE YOUNG AND PUT HIM BACK THERE WITH DAVID CARR THAT WAY NO ONE COULD KNOW WHICH QB WE ARE USING THAT PLAY!


now my actual response:
i agree, much improvement... i did the same thing but you beat me to it... i just used + and - like our coaches do for our hs team. he would have graded out at 95%... which is very good ... at least in high school... so i thought he improved... he just hasnt made those huge plays yet...those will come.

Speaking of Bush... He hasn't gotten one sack or tackle yet, but I guess it's not fair to compare him to a defensive lineman.

jmerog
09-17-2006, 10:41 PM
Speaking of Bush... He hasn't gotten one sack or tackle yet, but I guess it's not fair to compare him to a defensive lineman.


Haha.

Speedy
09-17-2006, 10:44 PM
Perhaps not moving him all up and down the line is the thing to do. I haven't watched the replay yet, but I didn't notice him playing at tackle any during the game.

Also saw a couple of spin moves from him, which I hadn't seen at all in 4 pre-season and 1 regular season games. He even put a lick on Manning once IIRC.

Definite improvement. When the game slows down for him, look out.

gwallaia
09-17-2006, 10:49 PM
The improvement I saw from Mario today was his disengagement from his blocker. It seemed to me he was shedding the blocker quicker and getting into the backfield. Although he seemed to be overrunning the QB and having to chase him from behind. Manning is terrific in the pocket and sensed Mario behind and stepped up.

I'll bet you a Happy Meal he gets his first sack against the Redskins this Sunday.

michaelm
09-17-2006, 11:42 PM
I agree that Mario showed improvement.
One thing that i saw was that he took himself out of a lot of plays.
To be fair, I saw all of oue DEs take themselves out of plays quite a few times.
They were obviously concentrating on getting upfield, and were leaving gaping running lanes behind them.

Khari
09-17-2006, 11:45 PM
I'll bet you a Happy Meal he gets his first sack against the Redskins this Sunday.

a happy meal huh? :howdy:

phan1
09-18-2006, 12:06 AM
There's no question that he was better this week, but I also think you have to compare him with the grand scheme of things. He put on a performance that just about any average DE could make. If you scrutinized billy-go from the Titans, he's probably put on the same performance.

But it's good that he's improving and I think we'll continue to see him get better every week. Hopefully, we'll be able to call him "good" by the end of the year.

edo783
09-18-2006, 08:20 AM
He was a BIT better, but still only uses the bull rush. No moves. I think that will come, but so far.......

real
09-18-2006, 08:27 AM
Im not sure in what way Mario has improved...can someone please explain ???

New_Texans
09-18-2006, 08:36 AM
Next week he will have his 1st sack dangit!!!

real
09-18-2006, 08:43 AM
Next week he will have his 1st sack dangit!!!

I think he will too...Brunell isn't quite as decisive with the ball as Manning, and his scrambling isn't as good as McNabb's...

Mr. White
09-18-2006, 08:44 AM
If he makes more tackles this week than last week, that's an improvement.
If he got closer to the QB than he did last week...that's an improvement.

I think people have unrealistic expectations when they expect to see a highlight reel in every game. I guess it's to be expected from a generation that grew up on MTV, Sportscenter, and Madden.

Maybe Kubes can line him up at tailback, line him up at the slot, and have him return kicks.

Kaiser Toro
09-18-2006, 08:45 AM
Im not sure in what way Mario has improved...can someone please explain ???

I watched the game and saw a more active Mario. He got penetration and he disrupted blockers against the run. Still need to see more "moves," but they will come. You play a game, you go back to the film, you go back to practice and you build those moves and make adjustments based upon your experience. I still have not seen or heard anything that suggests Mario will be a bust.

Mario is not the story, the secondary was the story against the best passing offense the NFL has seen in years. When you cannot get one of the players in the secondary to make one play, it will be a long day.

real
09-18-2006, 08:46 AM
If he makes more tackles this week than last week, that's an improvement.
If he got closer to the QB than he did last week...that's an improvement.

I think people have unrealistic expectations when they expect to see a highlight reel in every game. I guess it's to be expected from a generation that grew up on MTV, Sportscenter, and Madden.

Maybe Kubes can line him up at tailback, line him up at the slot, and have him return kicks.

He didn't get more tackles than he did last week...

Closer to the QB?? LMAO....

Im not looking for a highlight reel...

why not...he played tailback in highschool....

Mr. White
09-18-2006, 08:50 AM
why not...he played tailback in highschool....

Let's put Owen Daniels in at QB while we're at it.

real
09-18-2006, 08:52 AM
I watched the game and saw a more active Mario. He got penetration and he disrupted blockers against the run. Still need to see more "moves," but they will come. You play a game, you go back to the film, you go back to practice and you build those moves and make adjustments based upon your experience. I still have not seen or heard anything that suggests Mario will be a bust.

Mario is not the story, the secondary was the story against the best passing offense the NFL has seen in years. When you cannot get one of the players in the secondary to make one play, it will be a long day.

ehhh...I am not going to analyze the game that much...but...I just want to see a football player....I haven't seen that...I have seen someone who is big, strong and fast...I haven't see someone who comes off the ball low, engages his man, gets rid of man, makes attempt to make play...I have yet to see that sequence...And I honestly believe that Mario got more pressure because the colts are a passing team so he just pinned his ears back and rushed...But at the same time it cost us on some of those runs...when he rushed up the field and the RB just went inside of him...I don't want to break down all of his mistakes because thats not fair to a rookie...but he needs to show more, and I think that if you say you are 100% satisfied with his play then you are lying or don't expect enough...

Cjeremy635
09-18-2006, 08:54 AM
I think he played better for the most part, but I think he needs to stop running around with his hands in the air like a gorilla. I understand if you are in front of the QB and are hoping to knock down a pass, but there was a play where he was chasing Peyton and he had his hands in the air (he was behind him and he wasn't reaching at the time). I don't know about you guys, but I run faster when my hands are lower. That may be that extra second he needs to get the sack or knock down the passer.

Kaiser Toro
09-18-2006, 08:55 AM
ehhh...I am not going to analyze the game that much...but...I just want to see a football player....I haven't seen that...I have seen someone who is big, strong and fast...I haven't see someone who comes off the ball low, engages his man, gets rid of man, makes attempt to make play...I have yet to see that sequence...And I honestly believe that Mario got more pressure because the colts are a passing team so he just pinned his ears back and rushed...But at the same time it cost us on some of those runs...when he rushed up the field and the RB just went inside of him...I don't want to break down all of his mistakes because thats not fair to a rookie...but he needs to show more, and I think that if you say you are 100% satisfied with his play then you are lying or don't expect enough...

Very fair assessment.

houstonhurricane
09-18-2006, 08:56 AM
I watched the game and saw a more active Mario. He got penetration and he disrupted blockers against the run. Still need to see more "moves," but they will come. You play a game, you go back to the film, you go back to practice and you build those moves and make adjustments based upon your experience. I still have not seen or heard anything that suggests Mario will be a bust.

Mario is not the story, the secondary was the story against the best passing offense the NFL has seen in years. When you cannot get one of the players in the secondary to make one play, it will be a long day.

Actually, if you give Manning all the time in the world to throw a pass...NO SECONDARY IN THE NFL will be able to cover that set of receivers. Not saying the secondary played well, but with no pressure it is inaccurate to say they were mostly responsible for that sad performance...

infantrycak
09-18-2006, 08:57 AM
Was held 5 times with no call - (happens all the time in the NFL) but shows desperation on the offensive linemanís part

Holding does happen all the time in the NFL but the officiating in yesterday's game was an abomination. The OT's were getting away with murder putting choke holds on guys which should have automatically drawn flags. Not saying it was one sided without reviewing every play--in fact on one of Carr's TD passes Salaam was holding--just the officiating was bad.

Kaiser Toro
09-18-2006, 08:58 AM
Actually, if you give Manning all the time in the world to throw a pass...NO SECONDARY IN THE NFL will be able to cover that set of receivers. Not saying the secondary played well, but with no pressure it is inaccurate to say they were mostly responsible for that sad performance...

Watch the game again and you will want to cut Dunta today. It was that bad. The time Manning had yesterday is the same time he has against everyone. The guy has to wash his jersey every other game.

real
09-18-2006, 09:02 AM
Watch the game again and you will want to cut Dunta today. It was that bad. The time Manning had yesterday is the same time he has against everyone. The guy has to wash his jersey every other game.

We had decent pressure...but I think our views of pressure may be skewed because of the product we have been watching for four years...Pressure to Carr isn't the Same as pressure to Manning...We put one or two hits on Manning, but for the most part he was stepping up into the pocket when he was making his throws....And our DB's were horid..

66cobra
09-18-2006, 09:20 AM
He was a BIT better, but still only uses the bull rush. No moves. I think that will come, but so far.......

I will swear in a court of law that I saw a spin move by Mario....

Mr. White
09-18-2006, 09:22 AM
I will swear in a court of law that I saw a spin move by Mario....

I saw the same thing. Somebody will come along soon enough to tell us we were wrong.

dat_boy_yec
09-18-2006, 09:34 AM
You guys aren't really paying close attention if all you saw was his little attempt at a spin move. The guy performed a couple of swim moves successfully getting into the backfield. I saw him hesitate a little bit back there almost as if he was surprised the move had worked and the thing I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned was when he pancaked the tackle. I mean the guy showed a ton of improvement. Also he did drop into coverage a couple of times, so he didn't pin his ears back the whole game. A few observations I have though. He got pushed to far upfield, this would have been better times to use the spin move, because how linemen love to grab the pads they would have to let him spin or otherwise be called for holding and Mario would get back into position to make the play. My other observation is he has to do a better job of being aware of his surroundings, not that I expect huge improvements next week, but I do expect him to get better at finding the ball. All in all I'm really glad they left Mario at one spot today or position, because he did play both ends, but he looked more comfortable less hesitant and seemed to find a better rhythm as the game wore on.

real
09-18-2006, 09:38 AM
You guys aren't really paying close attention if all you saw was his little attempt at a spin move. The guy performed a couple of swim moves successfully getting into the backfield. I saw him hesitate a little bit back there almost as if he was surprised the move had worked and the thing I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned was when he pancaked the tackle. I mean the guy showed a ton of improvement. Also he did drop into coverage a couple of times, so he didn't pin his ears back the whole game. A few observations I have though. He got pushed to far upfield, this would have been better times to use the spin move, because how linemen love to grab the pads they would have to let him spin or otherwise be called for holding and Mario would get back into position to make the play. My other observation is he has to do a better job of being aware of his surroundings, not that I expect huge improvements next week, but I do expect him to get better at finding the ball. All in all I'm really glad they left Mario at one spot today or position, because he did play both ends, but he looked more comfortable less hesitant and seemed to find a better rhythm as the game wore on.

Just curious...but did you re-watch the game or were these your first impressions ?

phantom17
09-18-2006, 09:42 AM
I thought Mario did well in his 2nd game that counts, & will continue to improve as the season progresses! Remember that this is a Colts team that protects P. Manning very well & his sack total shows, plus Manning quickly throws the ball to his recievers. I know there are times that he looks kinda green out there but he will learn!:superman:

RiotCommander
09-18-2006, 09:44 AM
You guys aren't really paying close attention if all you saw was his little attempt at a spin move. The guy performed a couple of swim moves successfully getting into the backfield. I saw him hesitate a little bit back there almost as if he was surprised the move had worked and the thing I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned was when he pancaked the tackle. I mean the guy showed a ton of improvement. Also he did drop into coverage a couple of times, so he didn't pin his ears back the whole game. A few observations I have though. He got pushed to far upfield, this would have been better times to use the spin move, because how linemen love to grab the pads they would have to let him spin or otherwise be called for holding and Mario would get back into position to make the play. My other observation is he has to do a better job of being aware of his surroundings, not that I expect huge improvements next week, but I do expect him to get better at finding the ball. All in all I'm really glad they left Mario at one spot today or position, because he did play both ends, but he looked more comfortable less hesitant and seemed to find a better rhythm as the game wore on.



I saw a lot of those very same things. I have grown tired of defending Mario, and David on this board. Eventually Mario is going to be a dominate lineman its just going to take awhile for him to develop all of the skills needed.

66cobra
09-18-2006, 09:53 AM
You guys aren't really paying close attention if all you saw was his little attempt at a spin move. The guy performed a couple of swim moves successfully getting into the backfield. I saw him hesitate a little bit back there almost as if he was surprised the move had worked and the thing I'm surprised hasn't been mentioned was when he pancaked the tackle. I mean the guy showed a ton of improvement. Also he did drop into coverage a couple of times, so he didn't pin his ears back the whole game. A few observations I have though. He got pushed to far upfield, this would have been better times to use the spin move, because how linemen love to grab the pads they would have to let him spin or otherwise be called for holding and Mario would get back into position to make the play. My other observation is he has to do a better job of being aware of his surroundings, not that I expect huge improvements next week, but I do expect him to get better at finding the ball. All in all I'm really glad they left Mario at one spot today or position, because he did play both ends, but he looked more comfortable less hesitant and seemed to find a better rhythm as the game wore on.
Well, I am glad to hear that Mario did a few swim moves as well as the spin move I saw. I didn't get to see much of the defensive side of the ball as I kept missing the game because it was my birthday yesterday. I didn't think to record the game so I could rewatch it. However, I am very, very glad to hear other's observations on Mario's improvement. It makes me think he will get his first sack next week.

dat_boy_yec
09-18-2006, 10:19 AM
Just curious...but did you re-watch the game or were these your first impressions ?

Yeah I re-watched it. He did do some swim moves, the pancake I must have imagined it. No wonder nobody else commented on it. Regardless, he still showed a lot of improvement.

real
09-18-2006, 10:24 AM
VY and RB both did lowsy on sunday! Go jump in traffic.:ok:

Im not sure what VY nor RB had to do with our game against the Colts...please clarify...and for the record..Bush did horrible running the ball, but he was their second leading reciever...And VY did better than Collins and threw his first TD...Not amazing, but not "lowsy" either...

real
09-18-2006, 10:27 AM
Yeah I re-watched it. He did do some swim moves, the pancake I must have imagined it. No wonder nobody else commented on it. Regardless, he still showed a lot of improvement.

I haven't rewatched the game...so I don't know if he did some swim moves...And he may have pancaked someone, but I didn't notice it...
And about him showing improvement...in what way ? I'm not saying that because ,IMO, he didn't show improvement it means he'll be a bust...so please don't go off on me...but honestly in what way did he improve from last week to this week ?

dantem
09-18-2006, 11:16 AM
Im not sure in what way Mario has improved...can someone please explain ???

In the first game he looked like he had no Idea where the QB was...
This game he actually pressured the QB to throw earlier than normal (which for Manning is usually an eternity)

In the first Game I did not see him disengage his man once. In this game he beat his man many times and had a clean shot at the QB (rewatch the Giants Colts game and see how many times there DE acomplished that)

In the first game he did not touch the QB...
In this one he got his hands on him before he released the ball several times.

In the first game he did not force the QB to give up the play...
He did it twice in this game.

I am convinced if we would have been playing a lesser team than the Colts yesterday he would have had at least 3 sacks the way he played.

would'nt you consider all of these items improvements from last week?

dat_boy_yec
09-18-2006, 11:28 AM
I haven't rewatched the game...so I don't know if he did some swim moves...And he may have pancaked someone, but I didn't notice it...
And about him showing improvement...in what way ? I'm not saying that because ,IMO, he didn't show improvement it means he'll be a bust...so please don't go off on me...but honestly in what way did he improve from last week to this week ?

Well, last week he would stand straight up and look totally lost. I mean the tackle would grab his jersey and basically handle him. He didn't get that much push into the backfield and looked really reluctant to commit, also he didn't try anything other than bull rushing. This week he got push into the backfield tried different ways to get to the QB and overall looked less reluctant, more sure of himself. This week even if he got stood up by the lineman he kept pushing back. He shed the blockers with more ease, unlike last week when he looked like he couldn't shed a blocker to save his life. He was getting close to Manning, so close. Had it been any other team or any other QB, he might have gotten him. The improvement came in how he looked more comfortable out there, I mean it didn't show up on the stat sheet, but if you re-watch the game you can see he looked alot less clueless. Also on a few plays he blew right through the line and unfortunately they were usually running plays to he took himself out, but the explosiveness he showed was pretty scary. I can't wait till next week. He should start really padding his stats against a mediocre offense.

real
09-18-2006, 11:38 AM
In the first game he looked like he had no Idea where the QB was...This game he actually pressured the QB to throw earlier than normal (which for Manning is usually an eternity)

The Eagles and Colts have two totally different offenses...The colts throw more than the Eagles, and the colts tend to have more deep routes than the Eagles which means more time in the pocket for Manning...All Mario did in this game was pin his ears back and rush...including on run plays which hurt us by opening up a huge hole....

In the first Game I did not see him disengage his man once. In this game he beat his man many times and had a clean shot at the QB (rewatch the Giants Colts game and see how many times there DE acomplished that)

I didn't see him "disengage" anyone this game either...The times I saw him put pressure on Manning he was going around the edge...He never once engaged his man, shed the block and come off to make the play....Clean Shot? I saw him hit Manning once, and he was the second person to him...I don't care what the Giants did...that is irrelevant....


In the first game he did not touch the QB...
In this one he got his hands on him before he released the ball several times.

Several times ??? ha ha...

In the first game he did not force the QB to give up the play...
He did it twice in this game
I am convinced if we would have been playing a lesser team than the Colts yesterday he would have had at least 3 sacks the way he played.

If he doesn't get all the blame for completions, how can he get all the credit when the QB can't find an open Man???...I am not even sure what you are talking about here...


would'nt you consider all of these items improvements from last week?

No...I didn't see where he improved...I saw him get more pressure, but I will reserve judgement when I see him play more....I remember him rushing up field and Peyton Stepping up in the pocket...over, and over...and over...again....

real
09-18-2006, 11:48 AM
For everyone who responded to my comments: I am not sure how Mario could have made such drastic improvements over one weeks time...I didn't expect him to have changed much...The only difference I was between last week and this week was "how" he played...We were in nickel most of the game...in fact that was our base defense for this game....Mario definitely was rushing up field more but IMO, that was due to the style of game that the colts play(pass heavy)...Mario still had mental errors, and honestly I didn't see all these swim moves and swims everyone is talking about...IMO, he looked more comfortable playing one position, but as far as his overall performance...it wasn't any better than Vs. the eagles...

Please_Evolve
09-18-2006, 11:48 AM
Seriously just...wow.

What so you want him to look like a pro-bowler week two in his rookie season? The guy makes huge improvments on his game from game one to two. Give the guy at least half of the season to adjust to the speed of the game.

RB faces A real test next week in Atlanta. Bet he gets areality check from that defense. Ron Dayne looked good in his carries and Gado had a nice one. I think Kubiak will start to find the rhytym in the running game in the next week or two now that he knows what he has.

VY...it hurts to have to cheer against a UT guy...but o course he had to became a tack. I'm sure San Diego has to be tired after mauling two straight opponents. They'll let VY have his touchdown. Jeeze ok Carr has a decent game throws 3 scores NO PICKS and manages the offense ok. I'd still like to see us get a little more vertical at times. Take a shot or two down field and that could help us in the running game.

thunderkyss
09-18-2006, 11:52 AM
I just finished watching the Tivo of the game 1 play at a time to see how Mario Williams had improved since the first game. I did not notice this stuff during the Game but I thought it was interesting.

Beat = Beat his man and was headed for Manning forcing a quicker throw
Tackle = Tackles
Grasp = Had Manning in his Grasp during the throw
Force = Forced Manning to slide or go out of bounds
Off = Off Sides
Stand = Standing around clueless
Held = Blatantly Held and no Holding Call

1st Quarter - only in on Half of the downs
Beat-2
Held-2

2nd Quarter
Beat-2
Tackle-1
Stand-1

3rd Quarter
Beat-1
Tackle-1
Grasp-3
Force-1
0ff-1
Held-3

4th Quarter
Beat-2
Tackle-1
Force-1

So basically in a game against a very good Offensive line he...

Made 3 Tackles
Beat his man and pressured the QB 7 times
Had the QB in his Grasp 3 times when the ball was released
Forced the QB to slide or out of bounds 2 times
Was off sides 1 time
Was standing around 1 time
Was held 5 times with no call - (happens all the time in the NFL) but shows desperation on the offensive linemanís part

I call that a major leap forward from last week.

great post..... I wish I had the resolve and creativity to do the same.... but last weeks game was the same.... You should do the same thing with Babin, Peek, TJ & TJ....... there was one guy who kept putting his hand in TJs face... plain as day, you could see his head being pushed back again and again, and again...... I'm talking about the Philly game here.

As soon as the refs start making these calls, we'll be much better off......

Mario is a monster, and I can't see how people are genuinely upset with his play.

Kaiser Toro
09-18-2006, 11:55 AM
For everyone who responded to my comments: I am not sure how Mario could have made such drastic improvements over one weeks time...I didn't expect him to have changed much...The only difference I was between last week and this week was "how" he played...We were in nickel most of the game...in fact that was our base defense for this game....Mario definitely was rushing up field more but IMO, that was due to the style of game that the colts play(pass heavy)...Mario still had mental errors, and honestly I didn't see all these swim moves and swims everyone is talking about...IMO, he looked more comfortable playing one position, but as far as his overall performance...it wasn't any better than Vs. the eagles...

I do hear what you are saying, but when I see Mario just pushing guys back onto their heels it says more about his tenacity than their style. I watched the game and then watched it twice via the Sunday Ticket's short cuts. All Texans fans should feel a little more encouraged about Mario this morning.

real
09-18-2006, 11:56 AM
As soon as the refs start making these calls, we'll be much better off......

Mario is a monster, and I can't see how people are genuinely upset with his play.

Holding happens on both teams...But as Texan Fans we just notice it more when our player is being held

He is a monster...He needs to eventually live up to that...And I'm not completely disgusted with his play, but can you genuinely say you're satisfied with it ?

Scott747
09-18-2006, 12:01 PM
Not sure why there continues to be such a quick evaluation on Mario, especially considering the two O-lines we just faced.

The improvement is there. Not as much as many would like because the stats are not there. But look at our team defense. Stats are few and far between.

real
09-18-2006, 12:05 PM
I do hear what you are saying, but when I see Mario just pushing guys back onto their heels it says more about his tenacity than their style. I watched the game and then watched it twice via the Sunday Ticket's short cuts. All Texans fans should feel a little more encouraged about Mario this morning.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree...I know Mario is strong and can push some guys around...And I know that It's easy to push a guy back when he is already backing up in pass protection...When Mario demolishes an OLineman that is trying to run block then I will be satisfied...Pushing an OL back on his heels who is already backing up to begin with is IMO, unimpressive...

real
09-18-2006, 12:08 PM
Im not saying Mario will be a Bust...But...Generally speaking Mario hasn't played well...Some may say he's played well for a rookie in his second game but I don't agree with that...I think Mario lacked a lot of skills, and technique because of poor coaching in college and I think he got by on his athleticism...I think Mario has all the potential in the world and right now I put the pressure on our coaches to bring that out...

Kaiser Toro
09-18-2006, 12:09 PM
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree...I know Mario is strong and can push some guys around...And I know that It's easy to push a guy back when he is already backing up in pass protection...When Mario demolishes an OLineman that is trying to run block then I will be satisfied...Pushing an OL back on his heels who is already backing up to begin with is IMO, unimpressive...

If you have the means, watch the game again without emotion (not saying you are emotional now, just that we are all were when watching the first time) and please let us know what you think.

real
09-18-2006, 12:12 PM
If you have the means, watch the game again without emotion (not saying you are emotional now, just that we are all were when watching the first time) and please let us know what you think.

Can Do...and I freely admit that I haven't re-watched the game yet but I will tonight...My judgement may be a bit skewed but It's just my opinion that If you are the first overall pick on a defense full of scrubs you should stand out somewhat...But like I said I will re-watch the game, and give a more fair assessment tommorrow...

Scott747
09-18-2006, 12:16 PM
There were a few prusuit plays from Mario that are downright scary for the opposing RB/QB's, once he shaves .2-.4 sec. off his jump on the snap. That is one part of his game that I've already seen improvement. I doubt anyone even takes a look at this aspect to much, but he has become ever so quicker on his jumps.

thunderkyss
09-18-2006, 12:17 PM
Holding happens on both teams...But as Texan Fans we just notice it more when our player is being held

He is a monster...He needs to eventually live up to that...And I'm not completely disgusted with his play, but can you genuinely say you're satisfied with it ?

absolutely.......

physically, he's got what it takes, that isn't a question for me.. IMHO, he needs to mentally prepare for the game....... his only problems as far as I'm concerned, is when he gets in the backfield, he has to think about what he wants to do, and he's more concerned with the man in front of him, than the man in the backfield. His thinking should be, "I'm gonna git that sukka", and not, "I'm going to prove I'm stronger than this guy"

Should I be having these questions about our #1 overall??

maybe not. But I understand we got him because he is raw with huge potential........ that hasn't changed.

dantem
09-18-2006, 12:18 PM
I didn't see him "disengage" anyone this game either...The times I saw him put pressure on Manning he was going around the edge...He never once engaged his man, shed the block and come off to make the play....Clean Shot? I saw him hit Manning once, and he was the second person to him...I don't care what the Giants did...that is irrelevant....




Well this is proof that you did not watch him play yesterday... for a minute I thought I was discussing Mario's progres with an informed person. Now I know you just like to argue. You would have more credibility if you watch him play before you comment on his progress.

real
09-18-2006, 12:19 PM
Well this is proof that you did not watch him play yesterday... for a minute I thought I was discussing Mario's progres with an informed person. Now I know you just like to argue. You would have more credibility if you watch him play before you comment on his progress.
:ok:

real
09-18-2006, 12:21 PM
I wish we could all watch film together and break down his play because I find it odd how we see the same thing and gather different assumptions about it...

edit: honestly I think a lot of people are or have mistaken Mario for Kalu...you all do know the D-Line rotated every other series right?

Speedy
09-18-2006, 12:29 PM
ehhh...I am not going to analyze the game that much...but...I just want to see a football player....I haven't seen that...I have seen someone who is big, strong and fast...I haven't see someone who comes off the ball low, engages his man, gets rid of man, makes attempt to make play...I have yet to see that sequence...And I honestly believe that Mario got more pressure because the colts are a passing team so he just pinned his ears back and rushed...But at the same time it cost us on some of those runs...when he rushed up the field and the RB just went inside of him...I don't want to break down all of his mistakes because thats not fair to a rookie...but he needs to show more, and I think that if you say you are 100% satisfied with his play then you are lying or don't expect enough...
Geez...no one is saying they're 100% satisfied with his play. They're saying he showed improvement from game one.

dat_boy_yec
09-18-2006, 12:31 PM
I wish we could all watch film together and break down his play because I find it odd how we see the same thing and gather different assumptions about it...

edit: honestly I think a lot of people are or have mistaken Mario for Kalu...you all do know the D-Line rotated every other series right?

I watched it and I can tell you he did diengage from a lot of blocks. Of course they weren't amazing or clean, but he did disengage. I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that I'm impressed with his play yet, but you have to admit there was improvement in his play. Like you said it was an improvement in how he played. I think next week will be the real measuring stick. He plays a less than elite offense and he's had a few weeks to adjust to the speed and work on some technique. If he doesn't put up numbers next week then I'll be really disappointed. As of now though I have to live with the fact that he showed some improvement.

dantem
09-18-2006, 12:34 PM
I wish we could all watch film together and break down his play because I find it odd how we see the same thing and gather different assumptions about it...

I'm pretty sure you would see it through an anoying Reggie Bush filter.

This thread wasn't put out to try to prove something, it was to break down what the National stats don't show about a players progress.

I would do the same for RB's progress but he is not on my home team, I will not be rooting for him, We will not be playing him anytime soon, and at this point he has no relevence to the Texans progress.

As far as I am concerned, every player stands on his own merrit, and has nothing to do with how well another player plays. especially a player at a different position on a different team. The only thing they have in common is inexperience in the NFL and they both had some prety poor efforts in the first few games as well as some good efforts.

real
09-18-2006, 12:41 PM
I'm pretty sure you would see it through an anoying Reggie Bush filter.

This thread wasn't put out to try to prove something, it was to break down what the National stats don't show about a players progress.

I would do the same for RB's progress but he is not on my home team, I will not be rooting for him, We will not be playing him anytime soon, and at this point he has no relevence to the Texans progress.

As far as I am concerned, every player stands on his own merrit, and has nothing to do with how well another player plays. especially a player at a different position on a different team. The only thing they have in common is inexperience in the NFL and they both had some prety poor efforts in the first few games as well as some good efforts.

Don't let the signature fool you...:ok:

dantem
09-18-2006, 12:42 PM
I wish we could all watch film together and break down his play because I find it odd how we see the same thing and gather different assumptions about it...

edit: honestly I think a lot of people are or have mistaken Mario for Kalu...you all do know the D-Line rotated every other series right?

Kalu played well when he was in, but honestly, it was not hard to tell them apart, Mario was playing stronger against the same o-lineman. and he has a big 90 on his back.

If it were legal and I had the time I would post the clips of the plays I referenced they are actually pretty impressive for a second start in the NFL against a very tough offense.

real
09-18-2006, 12:53 PM
Kalu played well when he was in, but honestly, it was not hard to tell them apart, Mario was playing stronger against the same o-lineman. and he has a big 90 on his back.

If it were legal and I had the time I would post the clips of the plays I referenced they are actually pretty impressive for a second start in the NFL against a very tough offense.

I'll be straight up...I honestly don't trust a lot of peoples break down of the games...I don't think some people understand things...thats as honest as I can be...Some may feel the same way about my analysis but oh well...we're all entitled to our own opinion...

For instance...In yesterdays game I saw Mario Rushing up field on almost every play(if not everyplay)...wheras against Philly I saw him standing on the line more, and after he recognized pass he would rush up field...I think it was strictly do to change of gameplan because of the different styles of offenses...period...

Sco-tai
09-18-2006, 01:01 PM
EXCELLENT breakdown.

I also dug the post someone put about "unfair" to ask about Bush's sack total. Great way to point out they are "apples & oranges".

:fireball: :crying:

Thanks for the great post.

:francis:

dantem
09-18-2006, 01:21 PM
I'll be straight up...I honestly don't trust a lot of peoples break down of the games...I don't think some people understand things...

fair enough..

Here is a version of the breakdown that has nothing to do with interperatation or understanding the game.

1) Made 3 Tackles
Delete **Beat his man and pressured the QB 7 times
2) Had the QB in his Grasp 3 times when the ball was released
3) Forced the QB to slide once
4) forced the QB out of bounds once
5) Was off sides 1 time
6) Was standing around 1 time
Delete ***Was held 5 times with no call

Now for the interperatation... This is still an improvement from the first week.

real
09-18-2006, 01:27 PM
fair enough..

Here is a version of the breakdown that has nothing to do with interperatation or understanding the game.

1) Made 3 Tackles
Delete **Beat his man and pressured the QB 7 times
2) Had the QB in his Grasp 3 times when the ball was released
3) Forced the QB to slide once
4) forced the QB out of bounds once
5) Was off sides 1 time
6) Was standing around 1 time
Delete ***Was held 5 times with no call

Now for the interperatation... This is still an improvement from the first week.

I respect and read everyones break down...But like I said I'd rather re-watch it myself because there have been times that posters have commented about a player...I go to watch the tape...and It'd nothing like the said it was...I would bet anything, that a lot of people either didn't hear the announcer say we played nickel as our base defense, or didn't recognize the extra DB on the field...We all have our own opinions..we happen to disagree on Mario's play at the moment...no biggie....

edit: I also notice you have him down for three tackles...Mario had two tackles and no assist so I don't know how you got three...different people see different things

Speedy
09-18-2006, 01:35 PM
I respect and read everyones break down...But like I said I'd rather re-watch it myself because there have been times that posters have commented about a player...I go to watch the tape...and It'd nothing like the said it was...I would bet anything, that a lot of people either didn't hear the announcer say we played nickel as our base defense, or didn't recognize the extra DB on the field...We all have our own opinions..we happen to disagree on Mario's play at the moment...no biggie....Then how about watching the damn tape before coming on here and telling somebody who has watched it that you don't believe blah, blah, blah? I can't tell you how many times I've watched a game, on tv or live, that I catch something I didn't see before after watching the tape. Probably because you can look for certain things, rewind and watch it again, that you can't do during the broadcast of the game or in person.

No, you'll just assume you saw it better the first time than someone who watched the damn replay.

Green Bird
09-22-2006, 09:55 PM
I just finished watching the Tivo of the game 1 play at a time to see how Mario Williams had improved since the first game. I did not notice this stuff during the Game but I thought it was interesting.

Beat = Beat his man and was headed for Manning forcing a quicker throw
Tackle = Tackles
Grasp = Had Manning in his Grasp during the throw
Force = Forced Manning to slide or go out of bounds
Off = Off Sides
Stand = Standing around clueless
Held = Blatantly Held and no Holding Call

1st Quarter - only in on Half of the downs
Beat-2
Held-2

2nd Quarter
Beat-2
Tackle-1
Stand-1

3rd Quarter
Beat-1
Tackle-1
Grasp-3
Force-1
0ff-1
Held-3

4th Quarter
Beat-2
Tackle-1
Force-1

So basically in a game against a very good Offensive line he...

Made 3 Tackles
Beat his man and pressured the QB 7 times
Had the QB in his Grasp 3 times when the ball was released
Forced the QB to slide or out of bounds 2 times
Was off sides 1 time
Was standing around 1 time
Was held 5 times with no call - (happens all the time in the NFL) but shows desperation on the offensive linemanís part

I call that a major leap forward from last week.

While your analysis was very detailed and thorough, you seem to be missing one key point.

They drafted him to sack quarterbacks. That's what DE's do in this league. They're no bonuses for "almost sacks".

Say what you will about his development. As the #1 overall pick, you're expected to make an impact immediately. Not Week 3, not Week 5. Now.

I also saw the Indy game as well, and I can count at least 10 times where he looked clueless, running into the backfield with the running back ran right by him.

I hate to tell you this, Texans fans, but he will never live up to the #1 pick. This isn't a "you screwed up by not getting Bush" comment. But he's got a long way to go, and you needed an immediate impact player.

With that being said, I hope you win this weekend.

dat_boy_yec
09-22-2006, 10:16 PM
Here's something people should chew on. How different the line looked and performed when Mario wasn't in. Kalu a seasoned veteran didn't have the same impact as Mario he didn't get the same push or the same output. By the way I finally understand what xxxroyaltyxx meant when he said how Mario played. I thought he was talking about how he played as in aggressiveness and technique while what I know think is he meant as assignment wise. However if this is the case than I gotta disagree, because we as fans don't know what his assignments were on each play. The thing I find undeniable is that at the snap the first game Mario stood straight up while this week at the snap he went forward. I'm not saying that's all I expect from him as I think he should also be getting sacks, but the guy is moving in the right direction. While I would have loved to see him just come in and devastate I have to withhold judgement, because I don't know how him playing DT throughout all off-season and pre-season affected his play. In his first game left at DE he looked more comfortable and it looks like he's getting comfortable and will make progress quickly there... now. However I gotta think that if we had left him at DE from the beginning he would be more comfortable and would have made a much bigger impact. I got faith he'll put alot more together this weekend and we'll see clear improvement.

run-david-run
09-22-2006, 10:22 PM
While your analysis was very detailed and thorough, you seem to be missing one key point.

They drafted him to sack quarterbacks. That's what DE's do in this league. They're no bonuses for "almost sacks".

Say what you will about his development. As the #1 overall pick, you're expected to make an impact immediately. Not Week 3, not Week 5. Now.

I also saw the Indy game as well, and I can count at least 10 times where he looked clueless, running into the backfield with the running back ran right by him.

I hate to tell you this, Texans fans, but he will never live up to the #1 pick. This isn't a "you screwed up by not getting Bush" comment. But he's got a long way to go, and you needed an immediate impact player.

With that being said, I hope you win this weekend.

I would go ahead and say that sacks are the most overrated defensive stats, at least for an individual. The sack leader the last two years has had 16 sacks. That is one a game. Assuming an average of 25 pass attempts per game, thats a 4% success rate as opposed to a 96% failure rate for the best of the best, if all you are jugding by is sacks. Consistant pressure and hitting the QB, even after he releases the ball is far more important then the one play where the offense loses 7 yards.