View Full Version : Expansion Team Question..."What's Going On w/the TEXANS, Panthers, & Jags?"

09-17-2006, 07:06 PM

I just had a question. NOT trying to "pile on" to the Texans loss...but this just came to mind and I was curious to see what the views were among the board members.

I've heard a LOT of talk about "next year" and "expansion team" and things of this nature. I'm curious as to what an acceptable period of time in which we should be able to EXPECT a not only competitive team, but a WINNING team? I realize fully that our team is in one of the most difficult divisions in the league, but with that said, when should we as fans EXPECT some wins to start piling up? 2 yrs, 3 yrs, 4 yrs, 5 yrs???

Please DO NOT TAKE THIS THREAD as another "Texans Suck!" or "Bench Carr" or "Mario was absent today" gibberish-like rant. I'm just curious as to what you guys say is an appropriate time to be patient.

The Jags were an expansion team in 95 and they posted a 4-12 record in their expansion year. In 96 they had a 9-7 record and went to the playoffs. In 97 they were 11-5 and were the Wild Card team for the second year in a row. In 99 they won the AFC Central division title and went on to a 14-2 record. (((By the way...NOT a Jags fan...I think they suck!)))

The Panthers were also an expansion team in 95 and they posted a 7-9 record; incidentally, with Capers as THEIR head coach. The second year they won the NFC West title. {Both expansion teams in their second year went on to the AFC & NFC Championship games} The Panthers also had 8 pro bowl players in their second season: Collins, Kasay, Greene, Mills, Walls, Michael Bates, Eric Davis and Lamar Lathon. In 97 the Panthers were again 7-9, and in 98 they went a terrible 4-12. In 99 they went 8-8 and in 2000 they finished the year 7-9. (((By the way...NOT a Panthers fan either...I think they suck too!)))

I will READILY ADMIT, that I AM NOT well versed in the ins and outs of expansion teams and drafts compared to the Panthers and Jags and the Texans. I'm NOT TRYING TO STIR UP HARD FEELINGS, but rather trying to understand why there is SUCH a HUGE difference in our records. Even with Capers as head coach for the Panthers and Texans and an Assistant for the Jags.

Why is there SUCH a big difference? I think that Capers was a massive part in why the Texans struggled so much over the past couple years, but with that said, why was he so successful with the Panthers and not-so-much here in Houston? I personally don't like Capers, and never did.

I know that for the most part, with the exception of the trolls, most of the folks around these parts are pretty optimistic, if not blindingly hopeful. I was just hoping to get some info from some of you folks that might know what is going on?

Please refrain from "Because Carr sucks" and "Because we're stupid" comments. I'm looking for ACTUAL answers in response to these questions.
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So what is the question...(sorry for the long initial post)...

(1) Why is there such a huge difference in the Texans, Jaguars and Panthers first few years as an Expansion team?

(2) How long is "long enough" to wait for a winning season?
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Again, NOT looking for blame...but rather, an intelligent explanation.

EDIT: Allow me to clarify on question #2...How long is "long enough" in the eyes of fans, for us to be "fair" in being displeased? In other words, there are lots of folks around that jump on fans that are negative in the analysis of the Texans performance; how long is "long enough" for fans to legitimately(sp) complain about poor performance? Sorry for the confusion. Didn't mean to insinuate that I was leaving the Texans as a fan.

09-17-2006, 07:12 PM
1) Dom Capers. He helped the Panthers on defense, which is what he is better at. When he tried to become the HC with the Texans, he bit off more than he could chew. Also... Peyton Manning. We have had to fight two games each year against the next Dan Marino. The Jags had years of playing time when the Colts were terrible.

2) I will wait forever to see a winning season. I am a Texans fan for life, and nothing can change that. I love this team.

09-17-2006, 07:12 PM
in a bit of a hurry so i didnt read your post.. but ill give a quick answer to the questions, as I see it.

1. The Jaguars and Panthers both got better deals from thier expansion draft. The Texans ended up getting to sign all the guys who werent playing well enough for the contract they had, so we got to take on a bunch of oversized contracts, for average players. The Jags and Panthers both loaded up on accomplished vets and made a splash fairly quickly. After those vets left the league though, they floundered. We started off from the beggining trying to build through the draft, and young players..to create a team with a strong young core of players that could continue to compete for years. Not working out that well yet.

2. That depends... when "long enough" comes.. what are ya gonna do? For me.. long enough is till the day I die or the Texans are no more. Honestly I couldnt see myself being the fan of another team.. so there really isnt a "long enough" for me. But, I expect that we will see a winning season before 2010. That doesnt mean that I dont see us having a winning season before 2009.. just that I expect we will see one before 2010.

Sorry if im answering these incorrectly due to my not reading your post.

09-17-2006, 07:15 PM
For the 1st Q i would have to say the expansion draft boselli stands out he could have made or broke us and he broke us as far as carr is concerned and the nfl draft oh yea and the GM choice...

The 2nd one is about 3 seasons because in a way we are starting from scratch... Kubiak needs time to sign and draft more of HIS style players rather than dealing with whats left from the old texans the exceptions i think are Carr.... Robinson... and Davis.

09-17-2006, 09:29 PM
Cause they went after big FA and big time vets and wanted to win quickly and did.

We went young and patient.

09-17-2006, 09:44 PM
#1 I think the Texans Defense the first couple of years was pretty good, but our offense was not there. The jags and panthers got both sides to click fairly quickly.

#2 I will be a fan, but as with last year at some point they will stop showing the Texans in my area and I will follow them with a glance at the newspaper.

09-17-2006, 09:51 PM
Cause they went after big FA and big time vets and wanted to win quickly and did.

We went young and patient.
I think this is beyond patient :francis:

09-17-2006, 09:54 PM
correct me if i'm wrong, but didnt they adjust the way expansion drafts work after jacksonville & carolina did so well so early? they really chopped down the available players and that is why the browns and texans had a much more difficult time from the get-go.

#2 ... for me, the first 4 seasons were just an extended preseason. now we have a coach. now we have an experienced owner. now we have acquired a somewhat respectable level of talent. this is year 1 in my opinion, so i've got atleast a few years of patience left in me. i'll always be a fan, but i expect something big to happen within the next couple of years.

09-17-2006, 09:59 PM
I don't use the expansion label.

We flat out didn't draft well or pick up the right FA.

South Texan
09-17-2006, 10:13 PM
Well... since you asked...

I look at the Texans right now as a child in mid puberty who has just been adopted by a Father That Cares (Kubiack) from a Father Going Through the Motions (Capers). I can't see how there couldn't have been a lot of player confusion and fustration last year with so many playing at the wrong position trying to work the same old tired game plan that was proven not to be effective.

With that in mind, I am looking at this year as going through growing pains. With the schedule we still face, I think 4 to 5 wins is a reasonable expectation this year.
If we don't pick up some seriuos help for pass coverage by next year I will be scratching my head, but assuming we do I expect us to at least be in the wild card hunt.
If we aren't legitimate playoff contenders the year after that, I may have to consider moving to Indy or Pittsburg.

09-17-2006, 11:21 PM
I think the short answer to this is that it was unacceptable at the fourth season, hence the purging of the Capers regime.