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TexansFanatic
09-17-2006, 02:57 PM
Last week Carr's QB rating was 102.1 and by my calculations his quarterback rating so far this weekend is 126.7. Not bad for a guy who people want run out of town....

Napa Auto Parts
09-17-2006, 03:06 PM
dont forget to mentioned 3 touchdown passes also












*3 fumbles but that dont matter :sarcasm:

Divebomb
09-17-2006, 03:07 PM
Last week Carr's QB rating was 102.1 and by my calculations his quarterback rating so far this weekend is 126.7. Not bad for a guy who people want run out of town....

Not bad for a guy who throws 1 yard dump off passes and fumbled three times. Stats are such a wonderful thing! You can twist them and bend them and do all kinds of wonderful things to make a P.O.S. QB look great! Carr sucks!

The Dream
09-17-2006, 03:08 PM
Carr was by no means great today....he was decent...he still didn't get rid of the ball a couple of times, he fumbled the ball 2 or 3 times, and he didn't look down field enough........he's what I always said he was............average.

FanZilla
09-17-2006, 03:10 PM
3 TD passes when we are so far down that the 3rd team D is in and they don't care if we score 30 points. When David has stats that are actually in a close or winning game I will be impressed.

He needs to lose his tunnel vision and realize that the d-line will be coming.

Divebomb
09-17-2006, 03:15 PM
Carr looked like crap until they backed off in the fourth quarter! I guess this is a lost cause, Carr was awsome I love David! We have a chance to loose 16 with him at QB this year!!!! Go Carr!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MrMeToo
09-17-2006, 03:16 PM
3 TD passes when we are so far down that the 3rd team D is in and they don't care if we score 30 points. When David has stats that are actually in a close or winning game I will be impressed.

He needs to lose his tunnel vision and realize that the d-line will be coming.

Agreed.

TexansFanatic
09-17-2006, 03:19 PM
Revised rating for this week after all the numbers are in:

140.2

Carr will be ranked among the top 3 NFL quarterbacks with a 115 rating after playing two of the best teams in the league (possibly Super Bowl teams).

Meisterman
09-17-2006, 03:20 PM
Carr did nothing when it counted. Once the game is out of reach and Indy puts in the the 2nd string...then with no presuure... he pats the stats.

Garbage time stats are for 3 year extensions...cough...

SpinDoc
09-17-2006, 03:20 PM
This is real. And I hate losing.

RTP2110
09-17-2006, 03:22 PM
[QUOTE=Meisterman]Carr did nothing when it counted. QUOTE]


Ok, but who on this team did??? Nobody showed up today. If you're gonna bash Carr, bash everyone else.

run-david-run
09-17-2006, 03:25 PM
3 TD passes when we are so far down that the 3rd team D is in and they don't care if we score 30 points. When David has stats that are actually in a close or winning game I will be impressed.

He needs to lose his tunnel vision and realize that the d-line will be coming.
the "tunnel vision" where he looked right then threw 30 yards to the left for a TD or the "tunnel vision" where he pumped right and threw left for a TD?

Maybe the reason he did well in the 4th is beacuse he had time...you really think that if Peyton and Harrison and Wayne are still out there when they are up by 30 that eveyrone else is going to stop trying?

PhnzUp
09-17-2006, 03:26 PM
we gotta make a change and put in Sage. Lets give Moulds and Andre an opportunity to earn their money.

TFL
09-17-2006, 03:28 PM
we gotta make a change and put in Sage. Lets give Moulds and Andre an opportunity to earn their money.

Yea bench a guy becuase the line can't block and d can't stop, and put another QB in there, and that fixs the problem. Wrong,Carr did not look to be the problem the last two games.

texflex513
09-17-2006, 03:29 PM
Go Carr!!!!!!!!

BeerFan
09-17-2006, 03:30 PM
You guys keep bashing Carr for not getting rid of the ball, and for "not realizing that the D-line will be coming."

Kubiak, the man in charge, the man with substantial football knowledge, keeps telling Carr to SLOW down, not speed up. Also, after about 215 sacks, he knows the d-line is coming, there just usually aint a damn thing he can do about it but throw short.

If you dont think Carr is the answer for this team, you are entitled to that. But a lot of times folks don't know what they are criticizing or hardly look to the big picture when making their assessments.

you know who else does that? retards.


*by the way, i am lukewarm on David Carr. Don't love him or hate him, but i think he has played well considering the circumstances the last two games.

Texas_Thrill
09-17-2006, 03:37 PM
3 TD passes when we are so far down that the 3rd team D is in and they don't care if we score 30 points. When David has stats that are actually in a close or winning game I will be impressed.

He needs to lose his tunnel vision and realize that the d-line will be coming.

co-signs. I want his stats to look good when it counts. 3 fumbles is unacceptable period.

That said....I'm willing to stick with Carr throughout this year. If Kubes pulls him early then fine but as for now David has this year to show me something. I might even give him 4 games next year just b/c he is in a NEW system which some of you forget.

BeerFan
09-17-2006, 03:41 PM
one fumble was Flanagan's fault as well, and another one was because he got hit while throwing. that could've happened to anyone in this league.

GoTexans
09-17-2006, 04:02 PM
This is real. And I hate losing.

Good then tell the Texans to draft a secondary.

the wonger need food
09-17-2006, 04:20 PM
Revised rating for this week after all the numbers are in:

140.2

Carr will be ranked among the top 3 NFL quarterbacks with a 115 rating after playing two of the best teams in the league (possibly Super Bowl teams).

Mostly garbage time stats. And the Eagles showed today that they're not that good.

Bottom line, the team is 0-2 and Carr has been a major contributor to both losses.

bigTEXan8
09-17-2006, 04:25 PM
Bottom line, the team is 0-2 and Carr has been a major contributor to both losses.

carr has been a contributor...but no where near major. his fumbles today were bad, not going to excuse that. but here's the thing, the team has no d. none what-so-ever. d-rob looks like a bust, no d-line, it's sickening. i'd say over 75% of the blame goes to the D. given up 70+ points in two games.

cred
09-17-2006, 04:32 PM
[QUOTE=the wonger need food]And the Eagles showed today that they're not that good.QUOTE]


I guess that is why NY Giants gave up 8, yes count 'em 8 sacks. So lets get real the eagles really arn't that bad.

How about you check yourself!!!!!!

the wonger need food
09-17-2006, 04:35 PM
[QUOTE=the wonger need food]And the Eagles showed today that they're not that good.QUOTE]


I guess that is why NY Giants gave up 8, yes count 'em 8 sacks. So lets get real the eagles really arn't that bad.

How about you check yourself!!!!!!

Checked.

They're certainly not a great team like everyone wants to make them out to be after a loss. They're about average. Which makes us below average. Again.

Please_Evolve
09-17-2006, 04:42 PM
Mostly garbage time stats. And the Eagles showed today that they're not that good.

Bottom line, the team is 0-2 and Carr has been a major contributor to both losses.


No the Eagles game showed me that they are great team that can't run the ball. Like The colts, eventually, it's going to catch up to them if they can't run the ball late in the game to take time off the clock. Reid also needs to stay commited to the run as well.

Bottom line we are 0-2 true but... There were some dropped passes in the game. There were some bad throws. The defense couldn't stop Peyton...Big suprise a weak Secondary against the best in the business. Do the dump off passes frustrate me ? Yes. Do I think it's a confidence builder? Yes. On some play he did show some flashes like the TD pass to Bruener.

Even more of a bottom line though we weren't that good at all phases of the game really. IMO the blame...no responsibility goes all around not just on one person.

MrLizardTX
09-17-2006, 04:44 PM
22 of 26 with drops by Johnson and Gato. Yep, Carr should be benched.:rolleyes:
Too many of you are simply blinded by hate.

TheCD
09-17-2006, 04:46 PM
As I've said before...I have a feeling that Kubiak will bench Carr at least one game this season...and regardless of how Sage Rosenfels performs, the Carr haters are going to be shouting how much better he is than Carr.


Look...the fact is the entire TEAM didn't show up this week. It was bad football all around. I don't see how one guy can possibly get the blame for that kind of performance. He didn't play defense and give up 43 points, just like the defense didn't play the other side of the ball and score more than 24...

run-david-run
09-17-2006, 04:55 PM
[QUOTE=cred]

Checked.

They're certainly not a great team like everyone wants to make them out to be after a loss. They're about average. Which makes us below average. Again.
Because they had a 4th quarter melt down to a desperate (cant go 0-2 in the NFC East) playoff team? The Giants almost beat the Colts last week. The Eagles are good, make no mistake about that.

Wolf
09-17-2006, 05:01 PM
I hate to say this..

this is just flat out retarded.

like I said last week

If Carr walked on water, some would complain that the river wasn't deep enough

If Carr turned water into wine, you would complain that the wine wasn't sweet enough.



can some just give it a rest and say..the defense gave up almost 1000 yards in the last two weeks and 67 points..

even the super bowl winner Trent Dilfer would be 0-2

Hulk75
09-17-2006, 05:09 PM
i have now gave his chance and now I think we should get rid of carr. I can not believe he fumbled a snap! I hope kubiak benches carr and brings in rosenfells!!!! The points could have been higher if carr was focused!:wild:
Are you guys mental? I mean really.

Flanagan NEVER GOT DAVID THE BALL, WATCH IT, THE BALL HITS CARR IN THE FINGER TIPS, AND CARRS HANDS NEVER MOVE OR PULL OUT EARLY.

edo783
09-17-2006, 05:25 PM
Are you guys mental? I mean really.

Flanagan NEVER GOT DAVID THE BALL, WATCH IT, THE BALL HITS CARR IN THE FINGER TIPS, AND CARRS HANDS NEVER MOVE OR PULL OUT EARLY.

Not only that, but he snapped it on the wrong count. Gannon made that comment on TV that it looked like he snapped it to early. Loud place and probably couldn't hear squat and just snapped it hopping for the best. If it's early, Carr would have been still looking over the defnse and not concentrating on the snap......just like he is supposed to do. The other drop was from a defensive lineman that got through and hit him. He was looking down field...again, just like he is supposed to be doing, and a guy wacked his arm and he (Carr) fell on the lose ball. To try and make a big deal out of either of these is just a real streach of the hateraide going on. If a couple of folks do their job a little better, they don't happen.

Cgold
09-17-2006, 05:35 PM
the team allowed 40+ points and your hear to complain about a fumbled snap.. like that cost us the game.. if you had any sense what so ever and your hear just to complain atleast pick something that resulted in our loss... carr is 4tds 0 pics on a horrible team. what has the D done for us?

Divebomb
09-17-2006, 05:58 PM
Davd Carr stats for Quarters 1-3
11-15 no TD's 72 yards
3 fumbles
1st fumble gives Indy the ball on Houston 17 with 14:20 left in the first quarter. The same quarter, very next drive, Carr fumbles Wiegert recovers for a loss of 8 yards we end up punting two plays later Indy starts at the 37 yrd line with 10:48 left in the first quarter! Of course they drive and score.

What leadership, we are so lucky!

Napa Auto Parts
09-17-2006, 06:02 PM
Davd Carr stats for Quarters 1-3
11-15 no TD's 72 yards
3 fumbles
1st fumble gives Indy the ball on Houston 17 with 14:20 left in the first quarter. The same quarter, very next drive, Carr fumbles Wiegert recovers for a loss of 8 yards we end up punting two plays later Indy starts at the 37 yrd line with 10:48 left in the first quarter! Of course they drive and score.

What leadership, we are so lucky!



Dont be so mean some "Fans" hate the truth lets just forget about the first three quarters and just base our opinion or garbage time when the game was out hand please.

Wolf
09-17-2006, 06:14 PM
relentless..

those are stats that even the great Trent Dilfer would have oved(Carrs stats through 2 games)

tex
09-17-2006, 06:14 PM
The points could have been higher if carr was focused!:wild:
It wouldn't matter how high the points went if the D can't shut down the offense.

Divebomb
09-17-2006, 06:17 PM
It's not hard to score points when Carr will give you the ball on the 17 yard line!!

Wolf
09-17-2006, 06:21 PM
It's not hard to score points when Carr will give you the ball on the 17 yard line!!

give it a rest

it isn't hard to score points when you are 8-11 on 3rd down conversions.

The team again failed on the defensive side of the ball..

Hulk75
09-17-2006, 06:24 PM
It's not hard to score points when Carr will give you the ball on the 17 yard line!!
The Colts averaged 7 yards a play, Defense is sorry.

Your talking about 17 yards, when Peyton had 400.

Goldeagle
09-17-2006, 06:26 PM
Carr had 2 dropped passes as well that were in the hands of his recievers

TexansLucky13
09-17-2006, 06:29 PM
Not only that, but he snapped it on the wrong count. Gannon made that comment on TV that it looked like he snapped it to early. Loud place and probably couldn't hear squat and just snapped it hopping for the best. If it's early, Carr would have been still looking over the defnse and not concentrating on the snap......just like he is supposed to do. The other drop was from a defensive lineman that got through and hit him. He was looking down field...again, just like he is supposed to be doing, and a guy wacked his arm and he (Carr) fell on the lose ball. To try and make a big deal out of either of these is just a real streach of the hateraide going on. If a couple of folks do their job a little better, they don't happen.

Exactly. Perfectly stated. His fumbles and sacks are due to the fact that he was trying to do his job, like Kubiak has shown him, and someone gave up on it. There were multiple plays where Weigert and Flanagan let someone slip through and take advantage of the fact that our QB is doing just what he is supposed to be doing.... looking downfield. Call him arrogant for expecting his O-line to protect him. I am so proud of Carr for his progress. Did you even watch those TD passes?? The one to Owen Daniels was so perfectly executed. David was watching the left side of the field, not giving away the fact that he was watching for Owen. He then threw a perfect deep ball and Daniels reeled it in for a TD.

David deserves his incredibly high QB rating. He still has problems, but he is doing his best to make this team better. I could have never expected him to play so well.

P.S. - You wanna argue this with me? I have the facts on my side, as well as the stats. Lets rumble.

LBC_Justin
09-17-2006, 06:30 PM
[QUOTE=cred]

Checked.

They're certainly not a great team like everyone wants to make them out to be after a loss. They're about average. Which makes us below average. Again.
we went 2-14 last year.

what in the world are your expections for this team?????

The Giants, Eagles and Colts are all above average teams.

TEXANRED
09-17-2006, 06:30 PM
Not bad for a guy who throws 1 yard dump off passes and fumbled three times. Stats are such a wonderful thing! You can twist them and bend them and do all kinds of wonderful things to make a P.O.S. QB look great! Carr sucks!
Divebomb you need to stop.

Every single post by you is negative and insulating. You bring nothing to the table that is in any way constructive or insightful.

You are a troll.

Its bad enough watching Payton rape the Texans D for a 9th straight time, even worse to read dribble like this.

Anyone who would like to defend Divebomb by saying it is his right to express his feeling and this is why you come to a message board should then also open there arms and hearts to any other troll who gets on here and spreads nothing but negativity.

sakebomb
09-17-2006, 06:32 PM
Carr has been average behind a below average line. Let us not forget that the defense looks a little below average as well. :chicken:

Cgold
09-17-2006, 06:34 PM
oh he as a lot to say about one of thee only producers on the team in anyway so far this season.. and has no complaints what so ever about the rest of the team or the real reasons we are losing these games..

Hulk75
09-17-2006, 06:35 PM
Carr has been average behind a below average line. Let us not forget that the defense looks a little below average as well. :chicken:
Your being very nice.................Although, Eagles and Colts back to back that is hard for a young D like ours.

Cgold
09-17-2006, 06:35 PM
"Let us not forget that the defense looks a little below average as well"


a little below, try horrible

Wolf
09-17-2006, 06:40 PM
Divebomb you need to stop.

Every single post by you is negative and insulating. You bring nothing to the table that is in any way constructive or insightful.

You are a troll.

Its bad enough watching Payton rape the Texans D for a 9th straight time, even worse to read dribble like this.

Anyone who would like to defend Divebomb by saying it is his right to express his feeling and this is why you come to a message board should then also open there arms and hearts to any other troll who gets on here and spreads nothing but negativity.


it is the classic case of
when Carr stinks.... we lost because he stunk
when Carr doesn't ...well we lost because he threw off of his back foot.


joking aside.

when the Texans lose: no matter what Carr does, they will find fault with his game...

reminds me of the times of the Oilers in the 80's

most popular player is the backup QB (whoever that was during the season)


If Carr had a game of 8-24 for 56 yards with 0 TD's and 2 INT's ..I have no problem bashing him.. it is just when he has good game ...the punches are still thrown and the excuses of why he has a good game keep coming..

FSUBulldog
09-17-2006, 06:59 PM
it is the classic case of
when Carr stinks.... we lost because he stunk
when Carr doesn't ...well we lost because he threw off of his back foot.


joking aside.

when the Texans lose: no matter what Carr does, they will find fault with his game...

reminds me of the times of the Oilers in the 80's

most popular player is the backup QB (whoever that was during the season)


If Carr had a game of 8-24 for 56 yards with 0 TD's and 2 INT's ..I have no problem bashing him.. it is just when he has good game ...the punches are still thrown and the excuses of why he has a good game keep coming..

So I'm watching this game on Sunday Ticket and I get to listen to Rich Gannon repeatedly diss Carr about how much work he needs. The thing that about pushed me over the edge was on the bootleg down near the goal line where he went for the corner of the end zone and came up about a yard or so short. Gannon is all over him about not committing to the run earlier and diving for the corner. I'm sitting there thinking, "Damn, dude just went one-on-one with the defender and almost stuck it in and all he gets is kicked in the sack by this second-rate QB turned network analyst."

I'm looking at his stats and thinking, well at least there will be little for the folks on the MB to complain about DC's performance, given the glariing deficiencies on the defensive side of the ball. Then I get here, start reading this crap, and my blood pressure starts to skyrocket...

How in the hell does this guy EVER succeed in Houston? (this Q is rhetorical, I really don't need to read any more hater "logic" at this point...)

TexansLucky13
09-17-2006, 07:05 PM
So I'm watching this game on Sunday Ticket and I get to listen to Rich Gannon repeatedly diss Carr about how much work he needs. The thing that about pushed me over the edge was on the bootleg down near the goal line where he went for the corner of the end zone and came up about a yard or so short. Gannon is all over him about not committing to the run earlier and diving for the corner. I'm sitting there thinking, "Damn, dude just went one-on-one with the defender and almost stuck it in and all he gets is kicked in the sack by this second-rate QB turned network analyst."

I'm looking at his stats and thinking, well at least there will be little for the folks on the MB to complain about DC's performance, given the glariing deficiencies on the defensive side of the ball. Then I get here, start reading this crap, and my blood pressure starts to skyrocket...

How in the hell does this guy EVER succeed in Houston? (this Q is rhetorical, I really don't need to read any more hater "logic" at this point...)

I completely agree. I get so tired of the people on here who have no rhyme or reason for their complaints about Carr. All they do is find excuses to explain why he is doing good, and try to blame things on him that are not his fault at all. Sometimes I feel like on this MB the blind are leading the blind. I am tired of having to fight the good fight. I get accused of being a Carr homer when all I do is give factual evidence and note improvements on his technique.

Goldeagle
09-17-2006, 07:10 PM
Lets start Cody Carlson, he is better than Moon!

edo783
09-17-2006, 07:20 PM
I am tired of having to fight the good fight. I get accused of being a Carr homer when all I do is give factual evidence and note improvements on his technique.

There is a group of Carr haters who are VERY prolific posters who contantly post stuff that is only partialy correct and often just plain wrong, but then people (who often aren't Carr homers, but just like correct data) have to spend hours refuting their drival. If you don't, some folks who don't know better and dont realise that there are agendas at work, wind up picking up their crappola and pretty soon it becomes an urban legend type of thing with a life of its own. Kind of like the Flat Earth folks, no matter what is pointed out, they so want to believe the eath is flat, they can' see the curve on the horizon.

edo783
09-17-2006, 07:29 PM
On the subject of the dump pass, I wonder if folks know what the WCO really is? It uses the SHORT passing game very much like a hand off. Lots of short/dump passes to RBs and TEs, some middle range and an occasional downfield toss. The key is to have large physical WR that catch the ball and run after the catch. If you read some folks postings, you would think there is never a pass that goes further than 5 yards. However, facts say different. In the last two games, we have taken a pretty fair amount of shots downfield and faily successfully at that. A couple were in the 40 yard range with the ball traveling 20-30 yards or more in the air. Moulds has been a real addition to this team and is paying off big time.

chuckm
09-17-2006, 08:23 PM
I watched it and saw flanagan snap the ball and it slipped out of his hands. Flanagan is a top rated center. How can he make a mistake? Carr needs to go :brickwall


They said on the post game show that Flanagan said after the game, that the fumble was caused by a mis-timed snap due to the crowd noise ..... Was he spinning? Maybe ..... but so are you

brewhaus
09-17-2006, 08:24 PM
This is the first play of the game.

http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/6200/sackgw4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


...it ain't Carrs fault.

chuckm
09-17-2006, 08:28 PM
Then he needs to get his head out of his :rant: and start being a team leader. Carr aint no team leader in my opinion. I do notice carr does struggle alot in the first quarter and then he gets to his feet around the third quarter or so. We cant afford to have a QB like that.

Should he have insisted on playing both ways today? Perhaps at cornerback? Safety?

gg no re
09-17-2006, 08:30 PM
And the Eagles showed today that they're not that good.I heard the NFC East was a highly competitive division, filled with bitter rivalries and fierce battles.

Second Honeymoon
09-17-2006, 08:31 PM
Last week Carr's QB rating was 102.1 and by my calculations his quarterback rating so far this weekend is 126.7. Not bad for a guy who people want run out of town....

Meaningless statistics generated mostly during garbage time...but whatever, I am sure Carr's QB play was peachy to most homer fans...not surprising given the amount of battle red kool aid that gets consumed around here....2-14 wasnt enough for them...Carr needs to deliver our franchise to infamy with either a 1-15 or God forbid, a 0-16 season...then maybe some of these homers may change their stripes after all....Thankfully, Carr only has this year and maybe next year till we finally make a move and jettison his arse to the NFL scrap heap where he belongs....I personally think we could see him benched if we start 0-5 and his play continues as it has been...please dont parrot garbage time statistics to me either, I know you guys think it validates your opinion of Carr...but honestly, it just outs you as totally clueless fans

Hulk75
09-17-2006, 08:34 PM
So I'm watching this game on Sunday Ticket and I get to listen to Rich Gannon repeatedly diss Carr about how much work he needs. The thing that about pushed me over the edge was on the bootleg down near the goal line where he went for the corner of the end zone and came up about a yard or so short. Gannon is all over him about not committing to the run earlier and diving for the corner. I'm sitting there thinking, "Damn, dude just went one-on-one with the defender and almost stuck it in and all he gets is kicked in the sack by this second-rate QB turned network analyst."

I'm looking at his stats and thinking, well at least there will be little for the folks on the MB to complain about DC's performance, given the glariing deficiencies on the defensive side of the ball. Then I get here, start reading this crap, and my blood pressure starts to skyrocket...

How in the hell does this guy EVER succeed in Houston? (this Q is rhetorical, I really don't need to read any more hater "logic" at this point...)

Right on..............I am tired of everyone of these peoples crap about Carr. Dangit there are so many things besides our QB that is wrong with this team. The D has got to get to the QB, PLAIN and simple, get to the flippin QB.

infantrycak
09-17-2006, 08:35 PM
Let's see of the tackles made on the three late scoring drives, how many were made by 1st teamers?

12 tackles by 1st teamers vs. 6 for the "2nd teamers." Do folks actually watch the games anymore or just look at the score and beotch? I guess we started playing our "2nd teamers" in the 1st quarter when the commentators noted Payne was the only starting lineman so most of Manning's yards were against 2nd teamers--yeah right--has anyone ever heard of rotations (and Freeney walking off for an injury)? This crud is brain dead.

Carr could have played better.
AJ dropped 2 balls (which by the way would have put Carr over 92% for completions)
The safeties are looking for a goat to abuse anywhere close to what happened to them.
Dunta Robinson is hoping to buy a sheep off the guy who sells the safeties a goat.
Every LB not named Ryans is hoping we don't know their name.
Kubiak is desperately hoping folks won't notice recent additions Dayne and Gado were both more effective than chosen starter Lundy.
etc.

This was a team cornholio.

Hulk75
09-17-2006, 08:40 PM
Meaningless statistics generated mostly during garbage time...but whatever, I am sure Carr's QB play was peachy to most homer fans...not surprising given the amount of battle red kool aid that gets consumed around here....2-14 wasnt enough for them...Carr needs to deliver our franchise to infamy with either a 1-15 or God forbid, a 0-16 season...then maybe some of these homers may change their stripes after all....Thankfully, Carr only has this year and maybe next year till we finally make a move and jettison his arse to the NFL scrap heap where he belongs....I personally think we could see him benched if we start 0-5 and his play continues as it has been...please dont parrot garbage time statistics to me either, I know you guys think it validates your opinion of Carr...but honestly, it just outs you as totally clueless fans
:sleep: :sleep: Sorry were you saying something.

hollywood_texan
09-17-2006, 08:41 PM
Carr is just as much of the problem as the entire team. The problems just run too deep! If anyone thinks changing the QB position, or any other one position for that matter, and anything will change, you are fooling yourself.

The Texans are horrbile and the 2006 squad may be worse than last year's team. Which is pretty amazing...

Dr. Toro
09-17-2006, 08:42 PM
It's not gonna stop on Carr 'til HE wins some big games. It's not fair to pin it on one guy... but he's the QB, he's the leader of the team... he's been here longer than anybody. It's HIS team... he is responsible. It's not because he's David Carr, it's because he's the starting QB, and he didn't produce when the game was in question. Peyton Manning is the best QB in football, he gets steamrolled by the Super Bowl champs, and all anybody wants to talk about is how he chokes, stinks when it matters, is a paper tiger, etc. Nobody is above it.

Carr is the face of the franchise, he's in his 5th year, and the Texans are still losing games in the first quarter. Whether he's directly responsible or not, he is the guy... he gets the big bucks and he'll take the blame when the team loses.

Second Honeymoon
09-17-2006, 08:42 PM
Let's see of the tackles made on the three late scoring drives, how many were made by 1st teamers?

12 tackles by 1st teamers vs. 6 for the "2nd teamers." Do folks actually watch the games anymore or just look at the score and beotch? I guess we started playing our "2nd teamers" in the 1st quarter when the commentators noted Payne was the only starting linemen so most of Manning's yards were against 2nd teamers--yeah right--has anyone ever heard of rotations (and Freeney walking off for an injury)? This crud is brain dead.

The only thing brain dead is thinking that statistics generated during garbage time are worth anything at all...they are worth something to sports agents and fantasy football geeks..thats about it

Hulk75
09-17-2006, 08:43 PM
Carr is just as much of the problem as the entire team. The problems just run too deep! If anyone thinks changing the QB position, or any other one position for that matter, and anything will change, you are fooling yourself.

The Texans are horrbile and the 2006 squad may be worse than last year's team. Which is pretty amazing...
Let me know how you came up with that.

hollywood_texan
09-17-2006, 08:44 PM
Let's see of the tackles made on the three late scoring drives, how many were made by 1st teamers?

12 tackles by 1st teamers vs. 6 for the "2nd teamers." Do folks actually watch the games anymore or just look at the score and beotch? I guess we started playing our "2nd teamers" in the 1st quarter when the commentators noted Payne was the only starting linemen so most of Manning's yards were against 2nd teamers--yeah right--has anyone ever heard of rotations (and Freeney walking off for an injury)? This crud is brain dead.


I think point is that the defensive scheme of Indy changed after leading 30-3.

If it didn't, why couldn't Carr and company put together at least 1 TD drive before the 4th quarter?

hollywood_texan
09-17-2006, 08:48 PM
Let me know how you came up with that.


There is a problem when your QB has QB rating over 100 and your team gets it's butt kicked. Which has happened two weeks in a row.

Most of Carr stats were the easy throws, 10 yards or less, until the 4th quarter.

The problem on offense is that they don't use the entire part of the field. Defenses know that and they play accordingly.

I think the problem starts with Kubiak and making the right play calling. That naked bootleg to start the game was not a good decision on his part.

Hulk75
09-17-2006, 08:48 PM
The only thing brain dead is thinking that statistics generated during garbage time are worth anything at all...they are worth something to sports agents and fantasy football geeks..thats about it
Keep spitting the garbage time crap, Nick Harper, Jason David, Marlyn Jackson and Mike Doss were still in the game. On his TDS.

gg no re
09-17-2006, 08:54 PM
There is a problem when your QB has QB rating over 100 and your team gets it's butt kicked. Which has happened two weeks in a row.So you blame the QB for a defensive problem?

Sounds logical.

infantrycak
09-17-2006, 08:54 PM
I think point is that the defensive scheme of Indy changed after leading 30-3.

If it didn't, why couldn't Carr and company put together at least 1 TD drive before the first quarter?

Well tell us how the scheme changed? Did Indy keep Manning and all the 1st team O in there and say well lets risk all our highest paid players but not our cheap D? According to some they did evidently and it is BS. There are plenty of things to pick apart about this game but made up semi-intelligent (i.e. listened to enough commentators who the same posters probably slam in other threads) football generalizations are crud. Whatever--clearly Robinson & Sanders getting torched, the safeties apparently standing on the sidelines and just running on to the field for the cammera shot of the tackles had nothing to do with the result of this game.

infantrycak
09-17-2006, 08:57 PM
There is a problem when your QB has QB rating over 100 and your team gets it's butt kicked. Which has happened two weeks in a row.

Most of Carr stats were the easy throws, 10 yards or less, until the 4th quarter.

The problem on offense is that they don't use the entire part of the field. Defenses know that and they play accordingly.

You do understand the WCO lives and dies on short throws with yards after the catch, right?

I think the problem starts with Kubiak and making the right play calling. That naked bootleg to start the game was not a good decision on his part.

Agreed--what did Indy hear all week long?--watch out for the bootleg. Until they open with 6 runs or drop backs straight, the bootleg should be the last play they call.

hollywood_texan
09-17-2006, 08:59 PM
So you blame the QB for a defensive problem?

Sounds logical.

No, I am not blaming the defensive problem on Carr.

This whole team is horrbile!

chuckm
09-17-2006, 08:59 PM
I went into today's game hoping that Carr (and every Texan player) would have an awesome game and that every Colt player would stink up the joint.

I'm a Texan fan ...... I consider that line of thinking rational for a Texan fan ...

There are people in this town, in this message board, in this thread that are "posing" as Texan fans.

These people will tell us that they're REAL Texan fans and that's why they "want" a change. They don't see the current QB of this team as capable of getting us to the playoffs and beyond.

Ok fair enough. I have no problem with a dissenting opinion.

What I do have a problem with are the "posers" that are evidently leading lives so devoid and empty that the tearing down of another is actually enjoyable.

I just don't get it ..... Thankfully

hollywood_texan
09-17-2006, 09:01 PM
Well tell us how the scheme changed? Did Indy keep Manning and all the 1st team O in there and say well lets risk all our highest paid players but not our cheap D? According to some they did evidently and it is BS. There are plenty of things to pick apart about this game but made up semi-intelligent (i.e. listened to enough commentators who I probably slam in other threads) football generalizations are crud. Whatever--clearly Robinson & Sanders getting torched, the safeties apparently standing on the sidelines and just running on to the field for the cammera shot of the tackles had nothing to do with the result of this game.

I asked you a question first.

If those 3 TDs were legit, why couldn't the offense get at least one in the first three quarters?

The Colts were up by 20 the entire 4th quarter. Of course, the defense is going to play a little different. If not, why couldn't they do anything before the 4th quarter?

Hulk75
09-17-2006, 09:01 PM
There is a problem when your QB has QB rating over 100 and your team gets it's butt kicked. Which has happened two weeks in a row.
Most of Carr stats were the easy throws, 10 yards or less, until the 4th quarter.

The problem on offense is that they don't use the entire part of the field. Defenses know that and they play accordingly.

I think the problem starts with Kubiak and making the right play calling. That naked bootleg to start the game was not a good decision on his part.
My friend that is called a POOR defense.

Just ask Brett Favre how he can throw for 300 some yards today and loose.

Last week they had Green over 100 yards Driver with 100 yards and they still loss.

And I dissagree with the easy throws thing, he is throwing the ball better then I have ever seen him(the deep ball to Andre last week,and the ball to Owen Daniels), the reason it looks easy is because this Offense fits him perfectly and he is reading Defenses very well...........Remeber what Carr said at the beginning of the season, in this Offense when guys are open they are wide open.

Wolf
09-17-2006, 09:01 PM
Well tell us how the scheme changed? Did Indy keep Manning and all the 1st team O in there and say well lets risk all our highest paid players but not our cheap D? According to some they did evidently and it is BS. There are plenty of things to pick apart about this game but made up semi-intelligent (i.e. listened to enough commentators who I probably slam in other threads) football generalizations are crud. Whatever--clearly Robinson & Sanders getting torched, the safeties apparently standing on the sidelines and just running on to the field for the cammera shot of the tackles had nothing to do with the result of this game.


infantry..logic doesn't work with some people.. they will scan whatever they can to paint a negative picture..

If Carr was 15-15..they would complain about him and say..Carr got his stats because team X wasn't blitzing.. or Carr got his stats because we ran the ball well.

It flat out just never ends.

TexansLucky13
09-17-2006, 09:05 PM
Agreed--what did Indy hear all week long?--watch out for the bootleg. Until they open with 6 runs or drop backs straight, the bootleg should be the last play they call.

I have to agree with this. I really expected them to come and establish the run before they tried any of that. I guess that is just one line of a list of things that did not go well.

I hate our opening schedule. I didn't think enough about it before the season started, but we really got the short end of the stick. I wish our schedule could have been reversed. No use in whining about it now though.

Carr played above average when he had the ability to drop back, go through progression and use the skills Kubiak has tried to teach him. I was really impressed with the Owen Daniels TD pass where he didnt give away his intended receiver. He has shown improvement and he is beginning to look like an NFL QB. A good one at that.

Wolf
09-17-2006, 09:05 PM
I asked you a question first.

If those 3 TDs were legit, why couldn't the offense get at least one in the first three quarters?

The Colts were up by 20 the entire 4th quarter. Of course, the defense is going to play a little different. If not, why couldn't they do anything before the 4th quarter?

keep reaching.

wow.. colts scored the most points in the 1st quarter(14) and then followed that up with 6 points in the 2nd quarter...why didn't we keep the same defensive scheme in the 2nd quarter as the rest of the game.

they scored 10 in the 3rd and 13 in the 4th...

Hulk75
09-17-2006, 09:07 PM
infantry..logic doesn't work with some people.. they will scan whatever they can to paint a negative picture..

If Carr was 15-15..they would complain about him and say..Carr got his stats because team X wasn't blitzing.. or Carr got his stats because we ran the ball well.

I flat out just never ends.
It needs to.

But it is not that big of a deal because it is hard for some people to admit when they are wrong, stand up be a man and say "you know what, he is doing well and improving."

You know what it really is though, people really think they know football but in reality they have no clue, you know how I know this? Because they will tell you every single thing wrong with the QB but could not tell you a flippin thing about anything else that goes on in other possitions. Cause if I spit out the word Happy feet and or Throwing motion people would jump all over it. BUT if I said, Keep you noose from your toes, dont give up your chest, roll your shoulders over and stay balanced when delivering the stick, find the snitches, I doubt some even know what that is or could do it.

hollywood_texan
09-17-2006, 09:11 PM
My friend that is called a POOR defense.

Just ask Brett Favre how he can throw for 300 some yards today and loose.

Last week they had Green over 100 yards Driver with 100 yards and they still loss.

And I dissagree with the easy throws thing, he is throwing the ball better then I have ever seen him(the deep ball to Andre last week,and the ball to Owen Daniels), the reason it looks easy is because this Offense fits him perfectly and he is reading Defenses very well...........Remeber what Carr said at the beginning of the season, in this Offense when guys are open they are wide open.

I agree with you, the defense is horrible.

I think the whole team is horrible.

Carr made that throw last week, and it was a good throw. It could have been a TD though, if it was thrown right. A good throw nonetheless.

Look, I don't think there is a defensive coordinator in the league that is concerned about David Carr ligthing them up to win a football game. Maybe that is Kubiak's fault because of play calling.

The offense is just plain vanilla as the defense. This whole team is lacking talent.

That is just how I see it. No one is scared of David Carr when he throws the football.

Maybe the best thing for Carr is to go somewhere else, because we are looking at 3 years to get this thing going probably. The talent just isn't there.

hollywood_texan
09-17-2006, 09:13 PM
keep reaching.

wow.. colts scored the most points in the 1st quarter(14) and then followed that up with 6 points in the 2nd quarter...why didn't we keep the same defensive scheme in the 2nd quarter as the rest of the game.

they scored 10 in the 3rd and 13 in the 4th...

I am just amazed that you would think the 4th quarter of this game meant something.

Well, we'll find out against Washington.

If the offense has turned the corner because of their 3 TD fourth quarter, we should see some good offense in the first half at Reliant next Sunday.

infantrycak
09-17-2006, 09:14 PM
I asked you a question first.

Well that's cute but you also made an assertion first.

If those 3 TDs were legit, why couldn't the offense get at least one in the first three quarters?

Well gee how about simple explanations like a RB fumbling the ball to end a very efficient drive or penalities making 2-5 to 2-20, or conservative/smart play calling going for a run and better field goal position on 3rd and 9 by getting 7 yds on the ground. It is a team sport, sport and more goes into it than ooh the scores came late they must have been cheap.

Let me make something clear for the umpteenth time--Carr was not the QB he needs to be for this team (i.e. huge room for improvement stats or not--his QB rating may be above Manning's this game but his play was not obviously) but there were a bunch of problems above him today on the list of why the Texans lost this game.

Dr. Toro
09-17-2006, 09:17 PM
infantry..logic doesn't work with some people.. they will scan whatever they can to paint a negative picture..

If Carr was 15-15..they would complain about him and say..Carr got his stats because team X wasn't blitzing.. or Carr got his stats because we ran the ball well.

I flat out just never ends.

Unless people think there is a better option on this roster than Carr, it makes no sense to call for his job. I'm not a Carr fan, but he's gonna be the QB for this 2006 team and probably past that, so I hope he does well. That being said, I don't care about his stats right now... we can pick them apart ad nauseum... but unless people want to pick apart stats as an argument for why Sage Rosenfels is better (which they can't) then it doesn't really matter whether he threw 3 TDs or 3 INTs.

I want the best man to be taking snaps... that's Carr right now, and probably will be until his contract expires. Whether you find that lamentable or not... them's the facts.

Hulk75
09-17-2006, 09:20 PM
I agree with you, the defense is horrible.

I think the whole team is horrible.

Carr made that throw last week, and it was a good throw. It could have been a TD though, if it was thrown right. A good throw nonetheless.

Look, I don't think there is a defensive coordinator in the league that is concerned about David Carr ligthing them up to win a football game. Maybe that is Kubiak's fault because of play calling.

The offense is just plain vanilla as the defense. This whole team is lacking talent.

That is just how I see it. No one is scared of David Carr when he throws the football.

Maybe the best thing for Carr is to go somewhere else, because we are looking at 3 years to get this thing going probably. The talent just isn't there.
Okay Do you have ANY idea why that would be? Your killing me brother.

If I as a Defensive Coordinator see a guy that has been dropped over 200 times, why would I ever blitz, did the Colts even do that today, NO. They rush 4 guys and play pretty much 4 or 2 all game.

It could not have been anything but Carrs talent, you dont think it is because all they have to do is rush 4 all day, now be reallestic bro.

Wolf
09-17-2006, 09:22 PM
I am just amazed that you would think the 4th quarter of this game meant something.

Well, we'll find out against Washington.

If the offense has turned the corner because of their 3 TD fourth quarter, we should see some good offense in the first half at Reliant next Sunday.

I was talking about our defense and the colt offense.

Manning was still in the game in the 4th...they didn't let up

TEXANRED
09-17-2006, 09:40 PM
Carr could have played better.
AJ dropped 2 balls (which by the way would have put Carr over 92% for completions)
The safeties are looking for a goat to abuse anywhere close to what happened to them.
Dunta Robinson is hoping to buy a sheep off the guy who sells the safeties a goat.
Every LB not named Ryans is hoping we don't know their name.
Kubiak is desperately hoping folks won't notice recent additions Dayne and Gado were both more effective than chosen starter Lundy.
etc.

This was a team cornholio.

What happened to the goat they had last year? Did they beat it to death? Seriously, I think this secondary has gotten worse. Why is Hoke still here? This secondary couldn't cover a hill top with snow in the middle of winter in Minnesota. They are terrible. Drob hasn't gotten better. I think he forgot that his first job is to cover the receiver and make a play on the ball, then make the WR pay if he catches it. Do we have any safeties?

Just to make things interesting, why not spot the other team they're usual 30 to 40 points and let our offense go out there to play against themselves. Between our center stepping on our QB's foot, two weeks in a row, or forgetting to hike the ball (shouldn't that have been called offsides, every one moved before Flannagen hiked it) or your running back running over your LT and breaking his leg, or dropping footballs when they hit you in the hand, they don't really need to play against anyone. They can stop themselves just fine. I would even bet we still give up five sacks.

Then again I have to remind myself we drafted rookies and almost all of them are starting, there is a new system in place, and before the season even started our secondary was riddled with injuries.

This team is still a long way off.

We need two outside linebackers, two DT's, two safeties, two corner backs(Faggins is an OK nickle, he is not starter caliber, we could do better) and a running back. I am still not sold on Weaver being our DE.

Carr is the least of our problems.

No pass rush and no turn overs.

I thought last years D was bad.

HJam72
09-17-2006, 09:42 PM
I no longer think we made a bad choice giving Carr that extension last offseason and the money included. I think Carr made a huge mistake not telling the Texans to stick it and finding another team to play on. What the Steelers did to Manning last year in the playoffs is what every team in the league has done to Carr for going on five years. If you can't protect your QB, YOU WILL SUCK. It's that's simple. Now, we don't even have a running game anymore and we still don't have a descent pass rush, not to mention the secondary keeps getting worse.

Hulk75
09-17-2006, 09:47 PM
What happened to the goat they had last year? Did they beat it to death? Seriously, I think this secondary has gotten worse. Why is Hoke still here? This secondary couldn't cover a hill top with snow in the middle of winter in Minnesota. They are terrible. Drob hasn't gotten better. I think he forgot that his first job is to cover the receiver and make a play on the ball, then make the WR pay if he catches it. Do we have any safeties?

Just to make things interesting, why not spot the other team they're usual 30 to 40 points and let our offense go out there to play against themselves. Between our center stepping on our QB's foot, two weeks in a row, or forgetting to hike the ball (shouldn't that have been called offsides, every one moved before Flannagen hiked it) or your running back running over your LT and breaking his leg, or dropping footballs when they hit you in the hand, they don't really need to play against anyone. They can stop themselves just fine. I would even bet we still give up five sacks.

Then again I have to remind myself we drafted rookies and almost all of them are starting, there is a new system in place, and before the season even started our secondary was riddled with injuries.

This team is still a long way off.

We need two outside linebackers, two DT's, two safeties, two corner backs(Faggins is an OK nickle, he is not starter caliber, we could do better) and a running back. I am still not sold on Weaver being our DE.

Carr is the least of our problems.
No pass rush and no turn overs.

I thought last years D was bad.
Thank You enough is enough............Our Defense has 3 #1 picks on it and all we can get is 1 sack. I usaully hold my tongue and dont jump to things too fast, but I do know something about DE/DT, we just got beat man to man today, Mario has got to play lower and I AM TELLING YOU right now, he has to loose some weight, 15lbs would work wonders for this guy, cause he looked a little winded out there. And you can tell guys are not in good shape when they start playing high over and over not just every now and again. He was not reacting very fast either.

Hulk75
09-17-2006, 09:51 PM
I no longer think we made a bad choice giving Carr that extension last offseason and the money included. I think Carr made a huge mistake not telling the Texans to stick it and finding another team to play on. What the Steelers did to Manning last year in the playoffs is what every team in the league has done to Carr for going on five years. If you can't protect your QB, YOU WILL SUCK. It's that's simple. Now, we don't even have a running game anymore and we still don't have a descent pass rush, not to mention the secondary keeps getting worse.
Thats a man right there. He admited Carr is looking better, props to you Jam.

Texanfan4ever
09-17-2006, 09:56 PM
I watched it and saw flanagan snap the ball and it slipped out of his hands. Flanagan is a top rated center. How can he make a mistake? Carr needs to go :brickwall

You have got to be kidding?

Kaiser Toro
09-17-2006, 10:04 PM
Sad state of affairs when people emphatically believe they actually watched a great QB performance today. He must get better people. This loss is not on David Carr, but he sure did not perform to the level that any of us would hope. Carr showed some flashes which is encouraging, but he also had the same old, same olds as well. Between the fumbles and crocodile arms at the end zone he showed me he can be precise from 5 yards and in. We know that he excels in this range and so does the rest of the league. Hopefully we are lulling every one into a rope a dope and start stretching the field.

hollywood_texan
09-17-2006, 10:08 PM
there were a bunch of problems above him today on the list of why the Texans lost this game.

Totally agree!

hollywood_texan
09-17-2006, 10:11 PM
Sad state of affairs when people emphatically believe they actually watched a great QB performance today. He must get better people. This loss is not on David Carr, but he sure did not perform to the level that any of us would hope. Carr showed some flashes which is encouraging, but he also had the same old, same olds as well. Between the fumbles and crocodile arms at the end zone he showed me he can be precise from 5 yards and in. We know that he excels in this range and so does the rest of the league. Hopefully we are lulling every one into a rope a dope and start stretching the field.

Again, totally agree.

blockhead83
09-17-2006, 10:12 PM
Carr threw 4 incomplete passes today, atleast 2 of which were balls that should've been caught. When the Colts started blitzing less and playing a more prevent D in the 4th, Carr had time to throw and he showed us once again that when he has time to scan the field he can make the throws. He looked off coverages, made the right reads, and through smart passes which were right on the money. If he had a running game to complement him, an offensive line that gave him a little time, and a defense to help him get on the field then maybe he'd look better. He played mistake free football today, and when he had the chance he made plays for us late in the game.

Fact of the matter is if the D and the rest of the offense had played at the same level Carr was playing at today, it would've been a competitive game. Let's worry about making the D that's allowed 1000 yards and 60 some-odd points in 2 games better before we hack on Carr. Let's worry about finding a runner who can tote the rock for 100 yards before we start ripping the QB who has over 400 yards and 4 TD's in his first two games.

blockhead83
09-17-2006, 10:18 PM
Sad state of affairs when people emphatically believe they actually watched a great QB performance today. He must get better people. This loss is not on David Carr, but he sure did not perform to the level that any of us would hope. Carr showed some flashes which is encouraging, but he also had the same old, same olds as well. Between the fumbles and crocodile arms at the end zone he showed me he can be precise from 5 yards and in. We know that he excels in this range and so does the rest of the league. Hopefully we are lulling every one into a rope a dope and start stretching the field.

I don't blame him for throwing short routes and dump offs when he's just pleading for a sack by waiting for the longer routes to develop. When the Colts D backed off late in the game our OL was able to contain their rush, Carr showed us that he's more than willing to look downfield if he's provided with the opportunity. If he has less than 3 seconds to get the ball off, atleast he's completing passes and not throwing up prayers to get picked off. Carr didn't play great today, ie. the fumbling issue, but he's never had this good of a start in his career. If he can fix his fumbling issue it'd be hard to argue that he isn't the most consistent component of our offense (not saying much, but it's something).

whiskeyrbl
09-17-2006, 10:19 PM
i have now gave his chance and now I think we should get rid of carr. I can not believe he fumbled a snap! I hope kubiak benches carr and brings in rosenfells!!!! The points could have been higher if carr was focused!:wild:

I remember a guy named Moon that fumbled quite a few snaps. He's only a HOF'er now. Not by any means saying Carr will be but sh1t happens. I think Carr had a good game,maybe not enough looks down field early but a good game.

jerek
09-17-2006, 10:31 PM
Mostly garbage time stats.

Just thought I'd take a minute to point out the irony: Sage puts up numbers in garbage time against 2nd and 3rd team defenses, and it's "bring in Sage." Carr does the same and Carr just sucks.

cbnjwill
09-17-2006, 10:33 PM
give me a break after these two performances by the texans there are people gloating over carrs' qb rating? amazing...... look we have been destroyed in the first two games we scored ten points against the eagles and put up 21pts in a meaningless 4th quarter when the game was out of hand. carr is a below average qb the running game is terrible. we lost our rookie lt. mario williams doesnt make any plays if not a bust looks to be a big project. ryans and dunte are the only guys of the def. who make any plays the return game without mathis is not good. we are probably looking at a 4-12 season and people want to talk about positives. this is not year one or two for an expansion team, this is yr. 5 no excuses.... we are a terrible team now and have been for the last two seasons.

Mysteryhunt
09-17-2006, 10:34 PM
at least we had some offense. my buddy is an oakland fan. they let their quarterback go who was inconsistent but passable and now, good god i feel sorry for them.

our ave point differental vs the colts is what like -18, we were right on par today. i dont see how we can suddenly beat the colts on game 2 of a new coaching regime. i think people need to think with their brains even though it's not as fun.

wags
09-17-2006, 10:42 PM
In the first year of a new offense there is no garbage time. Our guys need all the reps they can get. If Peyton Manning thinks it's important enough to stay in the game then Carr should be in. This BS about 2nd team and 3rd team is ridiculous. Everyone out there is playing hard to keep their job.

Hopefully those last few drives give Carr and the offense some confidence. Anyone who's ever played sports knows how big of a deal confidence is.

cbnjwill
09-17-2006, 10:58 PM
i played basketball and football throughout highschool and college and must say i never developed confidene in a blow out. look when the game is out of hand its a completly different game. doesnt mean anything to put up points during garbage time its basically like preseason

Vinny
09-17-2006, 11:01 PM
i played basketball and football throughout highschool and college and must say i never developed confidene in a blow out. look when the game is out of hand its a completly different game. doesnt mean anything to put up points during garbage time its basically like preseasonOn the Bob Allen interview on ch13 Kubiak just said "don't let the numbers fool you" when asked directly about Carr. He said the team will go as Carr goes and need to figure out how to get him to play good the whole game instead of one quarter against a prevent d.

BattleRedRaider
09-17-2006, 11:01 PM
Just thought I'd take a minute to point out the irony: Sage puts up numbers in garbage time against 2nd and 3rd team defenses, and it's "bring in Sage." Carr does the same and Carr just sucks.

Oh yeah, that's I-R-O-N-Y if I ever saw it.

Tayton
09-17-2006, 11:15 PM
I'm not a Carr homer and yes you can twist any stats the way you want to but Carr threw 1 incomplete pass in the entire game (3 flat out drops). We can make excuses for why he was successful or why he fumbled but to blame him for these first two losses is insane. We've had no running game and defense is absolutely horrible.

wicked_wayz
09-17-2006, 11:37 PM
Meaningless statistics generated mostly during garbage time...but whatever, I am sure Carr's QB play was peachy to most homer fans...not surprising given the amount of battle red kool aid that gets consumed around here....2-14 wasnt enough for them...Carr needs to deliver our franchise to infamy with either a 1-15 or God forbid, a 0-16 season...then maybe some of these homers may change their stripes after all....Thankfully, Carr only has this year and maybe next year till we finally make a move and jettison his arse to the NFL scrap heap where he belongs....I personally think we could see him benched if we start 0-5 and his play continues as it has been...please dont parrot garbage time statistics to me either, I know you guys think it validates your opinion of Carr...but honestly, it just outs you as totally clueless fans

you cant win games if the defense continues to play the way it did....if ur gonna blame carr, start with the defence

infantrycak
09-17-2006, 11:46 PM
In the first year of a new offense there is no garbage time. Our guys need all the reps they can get. If Peyton Manning thinks it's important enough to stay in the game then Carr should be in. This BS about 2nd team and 3rd team is ridiculous. Everyone out there is playing hard to keep their job.

Hopefully those last few drives give Carr and the offense some confidence. Anyone who's ever played sports knows how big of a deal confidence is.

Holy crap--post of the year.

Sarg01
09-17-2006, 11:52 PM
Sad state of affairs when people emphatically believe they actually watched a great QB performance today.

No one's calling for Hall enshrinement that I hear. Near as I can tell, folks are just presenting that David Carr acquitted himself better than 20 of our 24 starters today. Earl had a pretty decent game (too bad the rest of the secondary got destroyed), Ryans did fairly well and Spencer looked good until the "incident".

You can credit Carr for one of the fumbles. Apart from that, he had a nearly perfect passing game. 22-of-26 with 2 drops and one play where the TE let a defender get in front of him? Sometimes I think folks around here won't be satisfied with Carr's performance until he gets more completions than attempts. Heck, Kubiak's an offensive genius, right? Surely he can arrange that for us. :)

Kaiser Toro
09-17-2006, 11:57 PM
No one's calling for Hall enshrinement that I hear. Near as I can tell, folks are just presenting that David Carr acquitted himself better than 20 of our 24 starters today. Earl had a pretty decent game (too bad the rest of the secondary got destroyed), Ryans did fairly well and Spencer looked good until the "incident".

You can credit Carr for one of the fumbles. Apart from that, he had a nearly perfect passing game. 22-of-26 with 2 drops and one play where the TE let a defender get in front of him? Sometimes I think folks around here won't be satisfied with Carr's performance until he gets more completions than attempts. Heck, Kubiak's an offensive genius, right? Surely he can arrange that for us. :)

I still do not see why we spent so much money on this great talent when the talent is not exhibited. He made easy completions, which is better than them not being completed, sometimes. He gets to start next week and hopefully we will begin to see more of the playbook that leverages Carr's strengths, what ever they are.

hollywood_texan
09-18-2006, 12:01 AM
I still do not see why we spent so much money on this great talent when the talent is not exhibited. He made easy completions, which is better than them not being completed, sometimes. He gets to start next week and hopefully we will begin to see more of the playbook that leverages Carr's strengths, what ever they are.


I look at it this way, if Carr's 4th quarter performance really means something, we will see it in the 1st half next week against the Redskins.

Let's just wait and see.

HJam72
09-18-2006, 12:02 AM
Agreed. Carr may not be really playing worthy of those high QB ratings, but he's definitely not the problem.

phan1
09-18-2006, 12:03 AM
Honestly, I think we've seen enough in that Carr is a good QB, and that the QB situation is not something we need to talk about in terms of changing personnel. He's not a great QB, cause there's no way he could ever win a game by himself like other great QBs, but he's a good QB. He will take the team as far as the team will let him. And right now, his running game is nowhere, our defense sucks as bad as it did last year, and the protection sucks like always. Whoop-dee-doo.

Seriously guys, we aren't losing games because of Carr here. There's a whole bunch of things that need fixing, namely this gawd-awful defense.

Jwwillis
09-18-2006, 12:04 AM
The 1st sack is on Kubial his counter part read his mind. One of Carrs fumbles was lame. The one where the stepped up and just lost it. I didnt get a good look at the center exchange fumble. Carr still has happy feet, we were all hoping the o-line would give him enough protection this year and it hasnt happened. Carr can make the throws when he has the time and starts to relax. No way Kubiak gives up on the kid like so many fans. The Texans sucked as a team on both O and D.

Mike Kerns
09-18-2006, 12:39 AM
Just thought I'd take a minute to point out the irony: Sage puts up numbers in garbage time against 2nd and 3rd team defenses, and it's "bring in Sage." Carr does the same and Carr just sucks.

True.True...

Nighthawk
09-18-2006, 02:07 AM
22 of 26 with drops by Johnson and Gato. Yep, Carr should be benched.:rolleyes:
Too many of you are simply blinded by hate.

Dear Lizard--

NOBODY hates Carr. A lot of people think Carr is sort of a lost cause here. There's a big difference. You anti-hate guys don't really want to argue the merits of a case, you want to attach people for HATING Carr. Blinded by hat, sez you.

Nope. Carr just isn't getting it done, and hasn't been getting it done. THe QB is a key position for tangibles and intangibles. His talents are substantial, but his tangibles (stats) are mostly fattened in garbage time. His intangibles (will, charisma, leadership) seem mostly non-existent.

Let him try his luck elsewhere, and let us try our luck with another QB. Any QB would do--who could have done wosre today--effectively we lost 40 to 3.

Nighthawk
09-18-2006, 02:09 AM
Are you guys mental? I mean really.

Flanagan NEVER GOT DAVID THE BALL, WATCH IT, THE BALL HITS CARR IN THE FINGER TIPS, AND CARRS HANDS NEVER MOVE OR PULL OUT EARLY.

I watched it. Carr is jumpy and pulls out early causing the fumble. No question.

threetoedpete
09-18-2006, 02:21 AM
one fumble was Flanagan's fault as well, and another one was because he got hit while throwing. that could've happened to anyone in this league.
I don't care what the snap count is, the center delivers the ball into the qb's hands....It's the Qb's fault. If Flannagan's out next week, he won't be able to step on his feet.

Kubes wants wins not stats. I'm Ready for Sage to direct this shop of horrors. Carr's suffered enough. Let him go Uncle Bob. Let the man have a chance at a career. give him a buy out and let him go.

threetoedpete
09-18-2006, 02:28 AM
Dear Lizard--

NOBODY hates Carr. A lot of people think Carr is sort of a lost cause here. There's a big difference. You anti-hate guys don't really want to argue the merits of a case, you want to attach people for HATING Carr. Blinded by hat, sez you.

Nope. Carr just isn't getting it done, and hasn't been getting it done. THe QB is a key position for tangibles and intangibles. His talents are substantial, but his tangibles (stats) are mostly fattened in garbage time. His intangibles (will, charisma, leadership) seem mostly non-existent.

Let him try his luck elsewhere, and let us try our luck with another QB. Any QB would do--who could have done wosre today--effectively we lost 40 to 3.
No we're just weary of it. Quick fix isn't going to work either. But I'm tired of it. Faroh, let David Carr go ! He's suffered enough.

Texans86
09-18-2006, 02:30 AM
I watched it. Carr is jumpy and pulls out early causing the fumble. No question.

I don't know what game you were watching. Carr was not jumpy on that play. It looked like he and Flannagan got off on the snap count, and Flannagan threw it up there way too soon. Carr didn't even try to close his hands on the ball. He wasn't ready for it at all.

siconik
09-18-2006, 03:25 AM
Wow, now that Carr's passer rating is way higher then Mannings, Texans should try giving Colts a call and trading Carr for Manning and Dwight.

HJam72
09-18-2006, 04:41 AM
I don't care what the snap count is, the center delivers the ball into the qb's hands....It's the Qb's fault.

Yes, Carr screwed up there. I don't think the argument here is that Carr was faultless and perfect. He made a mistake, but mistakes were a much lower percentage of his play than they were for most other players on this team and that goes for game 1 against the Eagles as well. He's not the problem.

Someone else said that Carr can't win games on his own, like other QBs in the league. Really? Even Manning fell apart when Pittsburgh got pressure. It's a team sport and a good QB, by this standard of "winning is what matters", is one that has protection, a running game, good receivers, and a defense that gets pressure and keeps the running game under control. Carr has one of those right now. It looks to me like he is doing as well as just about anybody could, under the circumstances. Some may be tired of hearing that, but I'm tired of him not having those previously mentioned requirements; that's what I'm tired of....especially #1.

wicked_wayz
09-18-2006, 05:44 AM
Dear Lizard--

Nope. Carr just isn't getting it done, and hasn't been getting it done. THe QB is a key position for tangibles and intangibles. His talents are substantial, but his tangibles (stats) are mostly fattened in garbage time. His intangibles (will, charisma, leadership) seem mostly non-existent.

Let him try his luck elsewhere, and let us try our luck with another QB. Any QB would do--who could have done wosre today--effectively we lost 40 to 3.

and who would you suppose we replace carr with??????? look at the mess titans are in once they got colins in.....thanxs but no thanxs i prefer we keep carr.

it ant carr's fault they're losing games....

if you say we should get rid of carr cause he aint getting it done heck we might as well get rid of the whole defense cause they sure aint doing any better

TPIMP
09-18-2006, 08:38 AM
Yes, Carr screwed up there. I don't think the argument here is that Carr was faultless and perfect. He made a mistake, but mistakes were a much lower percentage of his play than they were for most other players on this team and that goes for game 1 against the Eagles as well. He's not the problem.

Someone else said that Carr can't win games on his own, like other QBs in the league. Really? Even Manning fell apart when Pittsburgh got pressure. It's a team sport and a good QB, by this standard of "winning is what matters", is one that has protection, a running game, good receivers, and a defense that gets pressure and keeps the running game under control. Carr has one of those right now. It looks to me like he is doing as well as just about anybody could, under the circumstances. Some may be tired of hearing that, but I'm tired of him not having those previously mentioned requirements; that's what I'm tired of....especially #1.


I read this board and sort through the garbage that fills it. Occasionally I find a post like this showing an intellegent rational observation. Thanks.

powerfuldragon
09-18-2006, 10:23 AM
Carr will be ranked among the top 3 NFL quarterbacks with a 115 rating after playing two of the best teams in the league (possibly Super Bowl teams).

That's frightening.

Cjeremy635
09-18-2006, 10:54 AM
As to who's fault it was on the mishandled snap...it was the center. They said it on 610 this morning that Flannigan couldn't hear the snap count becuase the crowd noise was too loud. END OF DISCUSSION!!! Onto the next topic.....where do we fix the O-line? Seriously, we can't/don't have the worst line in the league. The problem is that everyone has that in their mind. (other teams as well as the fans) They know we have had that sorry excuse for blocking for the past few years and they know that they can pin their ears back and blitz repeatedly and we can't stop them. The question is how do you get them to stop doing that? They don't do it to every team out there. If you lined up 8 in the box on any other team, chances are you get the sack or make the QB throw it away. I'm not saying they are bringing 8, I'm just saying that other teams "D's" have that mentality that they are gonna get us. They think we have a porous line and we do when they constantly bring the heat. Do they do it to other teams as well and they are just good enough to pick up the blitz? Just curious here, I need some insight.

Kaiser Toro
09-18-2006, 11:01 AM
As to who's fault it was on the mishandled snap...it was the center. They said it on 610 this morning that Flannigan couldn't hear the snap count becuase the crowd noise was too loud. END OF DISCUSSION!!! Onto the next topic.....where do we fix the O-line? Seriously, we can't/don't have the worst line in the league. The problem is that everyone has that in their mind. (other teams as well as the fans) They know we have had that sorry excuse for blocking for the past few years and they know that they can pin their ears back and blitz repeatedly and we can't stop them. The question is how do you get them to stop doing that? They don't do it to every team out there. If you lined up 8 in the box on any other team, chances are you get the sack or make the QB throw it away. I'm not saying they are bringing 8, I'm just saying that other teams "D's" have that mentality that they are gonna get us. They think we have a porous line and we do when they constantly bring the heat. Do they do it to other teams as well and they are just good enough to pick up the blitz? Just curious here, I need some insight.

I think Carr played well, not great. But if you were a scientist you would see that there is one variable which has not been controlled. We have changed staffs, linemen, scheme, skill players yet there is one constant.

Just needs to be pointed out as sometimes there is addition through subtraction. No I do not believe we need to see Sage in at the moment. But if we go south we need to protect the investment for next year or see if the team at large responds to a change at the helm.

chuckm
09-18-2006, 11:06 AM
As to who's fault it was on the mishandled snap...it was the center. They said it on 610 this morning that Flannigan couldn't hear the snap count becuase the crowd noise was too loud. END OF DISCUSSION!!!


Completely irrelevent, IMO .....

The Colts could've started every possession on their own 1 yard line and we would've still lost ....

DocBar
09-18-2006, 11:20 AM
3 TD passes when we are so far down that the 3rd team D is in and they don't care if we score 30 points. When David has stats that are actually in a close or winning game I will be impressed.

He needs to lose his tunnel vision and realize that the d-line will be coming.
I saw something yesterday that should give us all hope. DC actually looked off the secondary not once, but at least twice. I've never seen him do that before. Heck, I believe he even pump faked once. I'm feeling a bit better about Carr. He's been very accurrate and throwing downfield more. I noted 2 drops on AJ and one on Cook( on a shuttle, or is it shovel?, pass). He still had happy feet a few times when he had good protection, but not as bad as I've seen before. IMO, he seems to be coming around nicely. I'm ignoring the fumbles on purpose. The Kool-Aid tastes great. You should try some.

SESupergenius
09-18-2006, 02:59 PM
On the Bob Allen interview on ch13 Kubiak just said "don't let the numbers fool you" when asked directly about Carr. He said the team will go as Carr goes and need to figure out how to get him to play good the whole game instead of one quarter against a prevent d.Kubiak is going to ride Carr all season like this, no matter who's fault it is, he's trying to make Carr the leader. He is starting to get it:

I have to play better in the first half. They are plays out there where we get completions, but that is not enough. When you play a team with this good of an offense like the Colts, we have to find a way to do what we did the second half, in the first half. - David Carr after the Colt game.

Divebomb
09-18-2006, 03:39 PM
Kubiak is going to ride Carr all season like this, no matter who's fault it is, he's trying to make Carr the leader. He is starting to get it:

No he was telling you people the truth! Carr is not playing well and winning all starts with the QB. When he checks off to the easy 1 yrd play every time and he fails to stretch out the defense we are never going to put points on the board! The DB can play man tight every play because as long as they are running with the reciever Carr will check down to the 1 yard pass. If your QB will not throw the ball to single coverage then you have a major problem!

Battle Red Flash
09-18-2006, 03:42 PM
For those of you that want to get rid of Carr for his two game performance, you must really want to get rid of the entire defense and the entire O-line.
They are the BIGGEST problems.

ronaldod1
09-18-2006, 04:35 PM
I dont understand it....

the guy only threw four incomplete passes all day. At least two of which were drops. He had pressure in his face all day and he threw at least 24 of 26 balls on target . He hasn't thrown a pick yet.

sure a lot of them were dump passes, but it's the west coast offense that's how it works......

If you run the numbers Houston (after two weaks against tough opponents) has one of the top overall passing attacks in the NFL so far. It's obviously skewed, but the completion percentage, and lack of interceptions don't lie. It's stupid to even speak of the passing game when discussing this teams problems. May not be great, but in my opinion it hasn't lost the team any games.

Goldeagle
09-18-2006, 04:42 PM
22-26 attempts and Completes

Team drives, Lundy fumbles (Kills drive)

Team moves, FB Cook, drops a pass (Kills drive)

Team moving, Johnson drops a pass on the quick slant (Kills Drive)

Team moving, Gado drops a nice soft shuffle pass (Kills Drive)

Carr has 3 easy passes dropped and should, SHOULD have been 25-26.



Last week, Idiot Haters said Carr only plays in the first Quarter

This week, Carr only plays in the 4th quarter.

LOL, please leave Houston Sports scene. You look like :crying:

rodog
09-18-2006, 04:42 PM
Last week Carr's QB rating was 102.1 and by my calculations his quarterback rating so far this weekend is 126.7. Not bad for a guy who people want run out of town....

Thats great for David but unfortunalty the only thing that counts is the final score. We are 0-2 but hey David Carr has a passer raiting of 126.7 good for him.

ronaldod1
09-18-2006, 04:46 PM
Thats great for David but unfortunalty the only thing that counts is the final score. We are 0-2 but hey David Carr has a passer raiting of 126.7 good for him.


The point of the thread is to counteract the people who come on here and start multiple threads about how terrible carr is, and ignore the performance of every other member of the team who played like SH!T.

profan
09-18-2006, 04:49 PM
Like it or not, the qb is the face of this franchise. When the team sucks, he will get most of the blame. Does he deserve all of the blame? No. When we start winning he will probably get most of the credit. Will he deserve most of the credit? No. This just goes with the position. Get over it.

edo783
09-18-2006, 06:01 PM
When we start winning he will probably get most of the credit. .

Care to put a little cash on that?

TexansSeminole
09-18-2006, 06:14 PM
All I know is that if by the middle of the season we dont have atleast 3 wins, we need to put in Sage and see how the team does with him. Sometimes its a leadership or faith problem. Sometimes teams don't beleive in their quarterback; sometimes putting the backup with less talent in can be more effective.

Texans86
09-18-2006, 08:12 PM
All I know is that if by the middle of the season we dont have atleast 3 wins, we need to put in Sage and see how the team does with him. Sometimes its a leadership or faith problem. Sometimes teams don't beleive in their quarterback; sometimes putting the backup with less talent in can be more effective.

That's a rather presumptious statement. Carr cannot make the defense better (though I'm still chuckling that one poster thought he should), and he might be having a great first half. But it's quite possible that we lose the first six games to more talented teams, who are not coming off 2-14 seasons and most of whom looked like playoff teams starting the season (the Redskins being the only team that has looked pretty bad as of late).

Napa Auto Parts
09-18-2006, 09:17 PM
it Carr keeps putting up the same kind of numbers he is going to make the pro bowl :stirpot:

Kaiser Toro
09-18-2006, 09:19 PM
it Carr keeps putting up the same kind of numbers he is going to make the pro bowl :stirpot:

Yes and then we put the pot stirrer in the pot. Virtually speaking of course. :stirpot:

Honoring Earl 34
09-18-2006, 09:23 PM
Yes and then we put the pot stirrer in the pot. Virtually speaking of course. :stirpot:
With a Koolaid broth and a handfull of Willie's farm raised mushrooms .

bayoudreamn
09-18-2006, 09:57 PM
Mostly garbage time stats. And the Eagles showed today that they're not that good.

Bottom line, the team is 0-2 and Carr has been a major contributor to both losses.

There's no way to look at your post and imagine objectivity. It's quite obvious that your opinions have no validity unless one's personal feelings about someone else overriding actual talent is now a condition of validity. You don't like that guy.....so what.....this isn't the Jerry Springer Show.

edo783
09-18-2006, 10:07 PM
this isn't the Jerry Springer Show.

Kind of hard to tell around around here sometimes.

bayoudreamn
09-18-2006, 10:11 PM
This board needs to wake up. THE DEFENSE GAVE UP 1000 YARDS (approximately) IN TWO WEEKS. We do have a DC problem....called DEFENSIVE CRAP. 24 points wins most football games....even against the Colts. I've seen some pretty lame blame DC (the usual meaning) garbage on this site. This thread is the absolute jewel. The only area of this football team trying to play worse than the defense is the offensive line. It absolutely makes me cringe to see them play. No team in the NFL gives worse protection or run blocking.

bayoudreamn
09-18-2006, 10:20 PM
Dear Lizard--

NOBODY hates Carr. A lot of people think Carr is sort of a lost cause here. There's a big difference. You anti-hate guys don't really want to argue the merits of a case, you want to attach people for HATING Carr. Blinded by hat, sez you.

Nope. Carr just isn't getting it done, and hasn't been getting it done. THe QB is a key position for tangibles and intangibles. His talents are substantial, but his tangibles (stats) are mostly fattened in garbage time. His intangibles (will, charisma, leadership) seem mostly non-existent.

Let him try his luck elsewhere, and let us try our luck with another QB. Any QB would do--who could have done wosre today--effectively we lost 40 to 3.

You talk about "arguing merits of a case" and you use "intangibles" for an argument. That's the pot calling the kettle black.

michaelm
09-18-2006, 11:08 PM
David Carr is rated third in the NFL in quarterback rating.
He has 4 TDs and NO interceptions.
He is 40 of 53 for a 75.5% completion rate.
He is 17th in yardage (not great, but decent).

AGAINST TWO LEGITIMATE SUPERBOWL CONTENDERS.
(please, don't even try to spin these two teams into non-contenders. It will just make you look desperate.)

You can spin your "garbage time" crap in whatever way makes you feel good, but THE MAJORITY of those numbers came against outstanding defensive STARTERS.

Has he been perfect? No, far from it.
Has he looked lost at times? Yes, he has.
Has he made bone headed plays at times? Of course, no one can argue that.

God... there are relevant topics to be discussed here, but you losers can't get over your Sage love...


Party on Garth...

oh, and bring on the negative rep...

:logo:

thunderkyss
09-18-2006, 11:23 PM
Not only that, but he snapped it on the wrong count. Gannon made that comment on TV that it looked like he snapped it to early. Loud place and probably couldn't hear squat and just snapped it hopping for the best. If it's early, Carr would have been still looking over the defnse and not concentrating on the snap......just like he is supposed to do. The other drop was from a defensive lineman that got through and hit him. He was looking down field...again, just like he is supposed to be doing, and a guy wacked his arm and he (Carr) fell on the lose ball. To try and make a big deal out of either of these is just a real streach of the hateraide going on. If a couple of folks do their job a little better, they don't happen.

I don't want to bag on Carr.......... he had a good game.

But it's always the QBs fault, on a fumbled snap..... makes it easier to count I guess.

But if Flanagan snapped it on the wrong count, the rest of the team sure as heck didn't know, or they're watching the ball. David appears to be the only one surprised the ball was off the ground.

Flanagan didn't really do well, most of the game. But on that play, with one hand, he knocked the crap out of the guy in front of him. Turned him around, put him on the ground. If that's the way he plays on the wrong count, then we need to change the count.

Sides, it's no big deal to say David screwed the pooch on that snap. he's not the only player who screwed up yesterday. He's held to a different standard that's for sure, but he is the QB.

He's coming along fine though..... but his stats are kinda inflated with garbage time numbers. Kubiak wasn't happy with his play for the first three Qtrs, and he believes David is the right man for the job. It should be expected that someguys who never liked him would not be happy with David's first three Qtrs of play.

Last week, after getting sacked three times, he never got his rhythm back, his footwork looked like crap.

This week, his feet looked good, even after the sacks. I know it's hard to forget them, but that's what Carr's got to do. One day, we may need him to lead us to a comeback victory after being sacked 9 times in one game. Guys who do that are special.

Guys who don't, are avg.

Vinny
09-18-2006, 11:25 PM
David Carr is rated third in the NFL in quarterback rating.
He has 4 TDs and NO interceptions.
He is 40 of 53 for a 75.5% completion rate.
He is 17th in yardage (not great, but decent).

AGAINST TWO LEGITIMATE SUPERBOWL CONTENDERS.
(please, don't even try to spin these two teams into non-contenders. It will just make you look desperate.)

You can spin your "garbage time" crap in whatever way makes you feel good, but THE MAJORITY of those numbers came against outstanding defensive STARTERS.

Has he been perfect? No, far from it.
Has he looked lost at times? Yes, he has.
Has he made bone headed plays at times? Of course, no one can argue that.

God... there are relevant topics to be discussed here, but you losers can't get over your Sage love...


Party on Garth...

oh, and bring on the negative rep...

:logo:

I deleted the part where you call people idiots. Try not to personally attack people because you don't agree with them.

The silliest part of trying to define how great a player is with a stat line is that if you just looked at QB rating and didn't watch the game yesterday you would think Carr outplayed Manning. How useless is that stat?

thunderkyss
09-18-2006, 11:37 PM
All I know is that if by the middle of the season we dont have atleast 3 wins, we need to put in Sage and see how the team does with him. Sometimes its a leadership or faith problem. Sometimes teams don't beleive in their quarterback; sometimes putting the backup with less talent in can be more effective.

Just look at Byron Leftwich......

not nearly as talented as Carr. Not nearly as athletic as David Carr. But his 260 yards, 0 TDs tonight........ is going to endear him to his fans a lot more than Carr's 3 TDs in a losing effort.

I know the Defense has a lot to do with that win......... but Pittsburgh has a pretty good defense as well.

More people are going to give Leftwhich credit for those 3 field goals, than folks will be giving David Carr for his 3 touchdowns.

It's not fair, but Byron bought time, got first downs with his slow fat legs, and made plays.

David threw the ball in five yard chunks....... I know he hit a couple of 10 yard passes, but on 2 & 20 he threw a 4 yard strike, then on 3rd & 16 he threw a 5 yard strike to a WR who came out of the backfield(H-back I guess??)......


For anyone wondering, I'm supporting David Carr. I think he played well in this game, I'm satisfied with the progress he's made since last week, I believe he'll be getting better.

I'm just saying he isn't going to be endearing himself to anyone's hearts, by dumping down when we're losing by 40 points in the 3rd Qtr.

Last week, when he was driving down the field, and he inadvertanly stepped out of bounds 4 yards short of the 1st......... he missed a big opportunity to win some fans....... then the ball getting batted down didn't help either.

Ibar_Harry
09-18-2006, 11:45 PM
I don't want to bag on Carr.......... he had a good game.

But it's always the QBs fault, on a fumbled snap..... makes it easier to count I guess.

But if Flanagan snapped it on the wrong count, the rest of the team sure as heck didn't know, or they're watching the ball. David appears to be the only one surprised the ball was off the ground.

Flanagan didn't really do well, most of the game. But on that play, with one hand, he knocked the crap out of the guy in front of him. Turned him around, put him on the ground. If that's the way he plays on the wrong count, then we need to change the count.

Sides, it's no big deal to say David screwed the pooch on that snap. he's not the only player who screwed up yesterday. He's held to a different standard that's for sure, but he is the QB.

He's coming along fine though..... but his stats are kinda inflated with garbage time numbers. Kubiak wasn't happy with his play for the first three Qtrs, and he believes David is the right man for the job. It should be expected that someguys who never liked him would not be happy with David's first three Qtrs of play.

Last week, after getting sacked three times, he never got his rhythm back, his footwork looked like crap.

This week, his feet looked good, even after the sacks. I know it's hard to forget them, but that's what Carr's got to do. One day, we may need him to lead us to a comeback victory after being sacked 9 times in one game. Guys who do that are special.

Guys who don't, are avg.

What is even funnier is that they call it garbage time and I keep saying they finally did what this team does well in the 4th QTR. We finally desided to pass the ball and utilize our strength which is our WR's and TE's, then when we ran the ball it was effective because they weren't looking for it. You can either RUN, RUN, RUN to eventually set up the pass, or as I have stated till I'm blue in the face, you can PASS, PASS, PASS to eventually set up the run which is what the great years under Montana and Walsh were all about.

We have put together a collection of some of the finest overall receiver talent in the NFL on this ball club. Don't closit it, use it to your advantage. Right now this is not a running team. That is not our strength. Our strength is what we did in the 4th QTR and it shows you what we can do. There were some very fine catches in that quarter by our players. Daniels, in particular, made a very fine catch. I mean even Bruenner got into the Act.

But did the defense even stop Manning once during those scoreing sessions? All Carr was doing was matching Manning literally TD for TD. That's not going to work if you never stop the other team. Carr is not the major problem right now. The defense, the O-line and the running games are the problem. I would say the running game is not a problem, if the coaching staff would use it the right way.

Gado looked like he could be real effective particulary when the other team is not keying on him. The old adage that you can't see the tree for the forest is so true with this coaching staff and the previous one. Look at what you have, not what you wished you had.

michaelm
09-18-2006, 11:47 PM
I deleted the part where you call people *****s. Try not to personally attack people because you don't agree with them. yeah, I know... it's just that the litany of anti-Carr posts is frustrating beyond belief. I know you are not very high on Carr, but even you must admit it's out of control.


The silliest part of trying to define how great a player is with a stat line is that if you just looked at QB rating and didn't watch the game yesterday you would think Carr outplayed Manning. How useless is that stat?
I agree with you about the validity of stats, but the people on the other side of this argument are extremist in their reactions and judgments, and I'm convinced the only way to communicate with them is to be an extremist myself.

I posted my response in what I consider to be the only language they can understand.

Communicating with my 29 month old daughter on a daily basis has taught me that using nuance, subtlety and intelligence is not always the way to get your point across.






:logo:

Vinny
09-18-2006, 11:47 PM
What is even funnier is that they call it garbage time and I keep saying they finally did what this team does well in the 4th QTR. We finally desided to pass the ball and utilize our strength which is our WR's and TE's, then we ran the ball it was effective because they weren't looking for it.
When you put in your reserve secondary and have a 30-3 lead in the 4th quarter..."garbage time" is a good description.

Vinny
09-18-2006, 11:48 PM
I posted my response in what I consider to be the only language they can understand.

Communicating with my 29 month old daughter on a daily basis has taught me that using nuance, subtlety and intelligence is not always the way to get your point across. I'll post this in a manner that is easy to understand for you too...keep doing it and I'll put a stop to it personally.

michaelm
09-18-2006, 11:57 PM
I'll post this in a manner that is easy to understand for you too...keep doing it and I'll put a stop to it personally.


Peace.