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Ibar_Harry
09-17-2006, 02:26 PM
I'm ticked, because we have been lied to again. Here me out before you start foaming at the mouth.

When Kubiak came here he said he would do what the players do best and are best at and capable of. Lefts talk about Indy for a moment. They have absolutely zero running game. What do they do? They use their strength the passing game to get the job done. The run is a side light to the rest of the game just like the 49ers of the past.

Folks we are in the same position. We have excellent wide receivers and TE's and what do we do? Of course you have to run the ball to Pass. That is absolute BS. Kubiak has the same 1 dimensional approach. If you can't run then its time to try the other avenue particularly when your strengths are your receivers. We should be stepping back and passing on every down instead of running twice and then getting into an obvious passing situation. Sorry, but I'm not happy with what I'm seeing and its time that all of these coaches wake up.

Defensively we have no clue. We are being eaten alive by a very good QB. However, we have seen the same think in two games and they have stated they are not going to try to put pressure on the QB. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry, but I'm extemely disappointed in what I'm seeing.

You are going nowhere with the current play calling. They are going to call all of the plays and get results like this. Why not let Carr call his own plays it can't be any worse than what we are seeing. Let AJ and Moulds come back in the huddle and tell Carr what they think is open. The two times in the past we did that we were successful. I have never liked coaches calling the plays. I have always wanted the QB's calling the plays and the coaches telling them what they are seeing when there are problems. There are simply two different perspectives of the game. What the QB may be seeing at ground level is very different from an overhead view. However, if the QB can
t see it because of what the defense is doing, then you need to do what they can see.

Divebomb
09-17-2006, 02:29 PM
It is not Kubiak it is that P.O.S. QB. David Carr "Fairy Princess"!

the wonger need food
09-17-2006, 02:31 PM
This team is worse than last year. Careful what you wish for...

RocKetHtown
09-17-2006, 02:31 PM
babin and peek at ends and Bush at RB makes david alot better

TexansSeminole
09-17-2006, 02:32 PM
Lefts talk about Indy for a moment. They have absolutely zero running game.

Are you kidding me? No running game? What are you talking about? Addai will have atleast 1,200 yards this season, do you have any idea who he is?

texan767
09-17-2006, 02:58 PM
It is not Kubiak it is that P.O.S. QB. David Carr "Fairy Princess"!

Yes, they sure are running & passing on Carr, too!
Jeeezus! Will he ever get a sack, either?!?!?

I wonder what David or Jimmy Klingler are doing these days...
:sarcasm:

Scott D
09-17-2006, 02:58 PM
Are you kidding me? No running game? What are you talking about? Addai will have atleast 1,200 yards this season, do you have any idea who he is?

He's already got that in this game all by itself.

Goldeagle
09-17-2006, 03:01 PM
I made this post earlier but the mods deleted it

rmartin65
09-17-2006, 03:20 PM
Kubiak tried throwing the ball at least.

GoTexans
09-17-2006, 03:49 PM
It is not Kubiak it is that P.O.S. QB. David Carr "Fairy Princess"!

Yeah it's all Carr's fault

22/26 209 yards, 3 TDS, 0 INTS.

LOL.

jerek
09-17-2006, 03:53 PM
I'm going to stay out of the Carr bickering, etc. but for the record, Kubiak is very different from Capers. We have a lot to work on, but they're not in the same universe as coaches. Offensive playcalling, while not as successful as we would like to see so far, is night and day different.

Defensively I agree that we are seeing too much Fangio and not enough adjustments right now, but comparing Kubiak to Capers is totally inaccurate and knee-jerk at this point.

jerek
09-17-2006, 03:54 PM
It is not Kubiak it is that P.O.S. QB. David Carr "Fairy Princess"!

Fairy Princess? Where the hell do you people get this stuff from?

I was trying to leave you negative rep but accidentally hit Enter. So thank me later.

TFL
09-17-2006, 03:56 PM
I'm going to stay out of the Carr bickering, etc. but for the record, Kubiak is very different from Capers. We have a lot to work on, but they're not in the same universe as coaches. Offensive playcalling, while not as successful as we would like to see so far, is night and day different.

Defensively I agree that we are seeing too much Fangio and not enough adjustments right now, but comparing Kubiak to Capers is totally inaccurate and knee-jerk at this point.


It will take kubiak a little bit more then 2 games to fix a 2-14 team this year will be tough, but it is hard for ANY coach to turn a 2-14 team to look good or even decent.

the wonger need food
09-17-2006, 03:58 PM
Yeah it's all Carr's fault

22/26 209 yards, 3 TDS, 0 INTS.

LOL.

All in garbage time. Carr choked when it was actually a game.

SESupergenius
09-17-2006, 04:14 PM
All in garbage time. Carr choked when it was actually a game.
It wasn't Carr the choked for 43 points....but hey, call me crazy

Maddict5
09-17-2006, 04:18 PM
Folks we are in the same position. We have excellent wide receivers and TE's and what do we do? Of course you have to run the ball to Pass. That is absolute BS. Kubiak has the same 1 dimensional approach. If you can't run then its time to try the other avenue particularly when your strengths are your receivers. We should be stepping back and passing on every down instead of running twice and then getting into an obvious passing situation. Sorry, but I'm not happy with what I'm seeing and its time that all of these coaches wake up.



dont get too mad...when 2 13-3 teams :rolleyes: meet, 1 will lose:tease:

look i put forward a motion that you replace GK right now for coming up with that ingenious new gameplan that 80% of head coaches wouldnt think of...nevermind GK...what an idiot he is how can he not see it..its so clear- good qb, good wr, good te's, good o-line......oh wait!!:superman:

Goldeagle
09-17-2006, 04:18 PM
Yeah, Carr put up his number only in the 4th lol!

Starting off, this team looked like a Capers team for sure.

Ibar_Harry
09-17-2006, 10:51 PM
Again, I keep saying the strength of this ball club is the WR's and TE's, not the runnig backs. We are a pass 1st run 2nd ball club. When someone finally understands this we will win games. I'm sorry, but we use the passing game like a running game to get people beyound the line of scrimmage. The Colts know what they are doing and are adjusting.

Their running game will appear better than it is just like when the 49ers had Montana. They got a lot of yards running, because they were afraid of the pass. We have the same thing. Our RB's are effective when the other team is looking for the pass and not the run. We have average runners at best at the present time although I have hopes for Gado.

Defense is a another story. I can't figure that one out for the life of me. Offensively we could get in some shootouts and that's what they would have to be. I'm very disappointed in the inflexibility of the coaching staff at this point. Please, do what your players do best, not what you think is best.

Ibar_Harry
09-17-2006, 10:57 PM
By the way I'm ticked because I believe we can be good offensively and we are going in the wrong direction. This ball club has suffered too much to be put through the same Mash experiment again. We have some talent on this ball club and I don't want to see it wasted.

Cure our offensive woes and then move onto the defense. That is going to take a lot of brain storming. Again, I certainly think we are a whole lot better than we are playing. Something is terribly wrong again. I can't put a finger on it, but something is just not right.

I'm not saying we are a number 1 defense, but there is no reason for us to be allowing the points we are.

Hervoyel
09-17-2006, 10:59 PM
I knew this was coming and I've been dreading this thread since the game ended.

Ibar_Harry
09-17-2006, 11:02 PM
I knew this was coming and I've been dreading this thread since the game ended.

Your right Herv. Again Herv we have talent and we are falling into the same trap. It really is disappointing. I'm mad because I think there is no reason this ball club should look this bad. I don't have much hair left, but after this game I have a lot less.

Houston_Fanatic
09-17-2006, 11:04 PM
Of course he is different than Capers. And inherited a Capers team. How about giving the guy a whole season before writing him off? We have 14 more games to go and I don't expect them all to be like the first two.

Kaiser Toro
09-17-2006, 11:06 PM
I'm ticked, because we have been lied to again. Here me out before you start foaming at the mouth.

When Kubiak came here he said he would do what the players do best and are best at and capable of. Lefts talk about Indy for a moment. They have absolutely zero running game. What do they do? They use their strength the passing game to get the job done. The run is a side light to the rest of the game just like the 49ers of the past.

Folks we are in the same position. We have excellent wide receivers and TE's and what do we do? Of course you have to run the ball to Pass. That is absolute BS. Kubiak has the same 1 dimensional approach. If you can't run then its time to try the other avenue particularly when your strengths are your receivers. We should be stepping back and passing on every down instead of running twice and then getting into an obvious passing situation. Sorry, but I'm not happy with what I'm seeing and its time that all of these coaches wake up.

Defensively we have no clue. We are being eaten alive by a very good QB. However, we have seen the same think in two games and they have stated they are not going to try to put pressure on the QB. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry, but I'm extemely disappointed in what I'm seeing.

You are going nowhere with the current play calling. They are going to call all of the plays and get results like this. Why not let Carr call his own plays it can't be any worse than what we are seeing. Let AJ and Moulds come back in the huddle and tell Carr what they think is open. The two times in the past we did that we were successful. I have never liked coaches calling the plays. I have always wanted the QB's calling the plays and the coaches telling them what they are seeing when there are problems. There are simply two different perspectives of the game. What the QB may be seeing at ground level is very different from an overhead view. However, if the QB can
t see it because of what the defense is doing, then you need to do what they can see.

If you can conjure the voice of Vincent Price to recite this in your head it will make sense, and, if not, at least be more entertaining.

BlueThunder
09-17-2006, 11:07 PM
I see a lot of difference in the coaches.You have to give Kubs a chance to see what he really has and what he can't fix..Maybe he was lied to too.:shoot:

Were not staying at the bottom ....this next off season,,i'm going to have the top FA's once again and the'll be there for the taking.We can pick them up unload cap or play them on another team..IA have a feeling this division is not going to weaken anytime soon..

I',m looking at Ike Taylor and players like that to help this team.He big young and agressive and the Steelers may not make his bail:cowboy1: .

THIS IS A WIN NOW LEAGUE!

Hervoyel
09-17-2006, 11:08 PM
Your right Herv. Again Herv we have talent and we are falling into the same trap. It really is disappointing. I'm mad because I think there is no reason this ball club should look this bad. I don't have much hair left, but after this game I have a lot less.

It's two games man. Just two games against very, very good opponents. It's too early for this thread but I knew you would be bringing it. Frankly I was surprised I didn't see it after last weeks game.

If we win the next two regardless of how it happens I know I'll see a thread talking about how "Kubiak finally gets it" or something.

In the words of Forrest Gump; "That's all I've got to say about that."

Hervoyel
09-17-2006, 11:09 PM
If you can conjure the voice of Vincent Price to recite this in your head it will make sense, and, if not, at least be more entertaining.

I think it would be better coming from Christopher Lee, but that's just me.

disaacks3
09-17-2006, 11:09 PM
I'm ticked, because we have been lied to again. Here me out before you start foaming at the mouth.

When Kubiak came here he said he would do what the players do best and are best at and capable of. Lefts talk about Indy for a moment. They have absolutely zero running game. What do they do? They use their strength the passing game to get the job done. The run is a side light to the rest of the game just like the 49ers of the past.

Folks we are in the same position. We have excellent wide receivers and TE's and what do we do? Of course you have to run the ball to Pass. That is absolute BS. Kubiak has the same 1 dimensional approach. If you can't run then its time to try the other avenue particularly when your strengths are your receivers. We should be stepping back and passing on every down instead of running twice and then getting into an obvious passing situation. Sorry, but I'm not happy with what I'm seeing and its time that all of these coaches wake up.

Defensively we have no clue. We are being eaten alive by a very good QB. However, we have seen the same think in two games and they have stated they are not going to try to put pressure on the QB. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry, but I'm extemely disappointed in what I'm seeing.

You are going nowhere with the current play calling. They are going to call all of the plays and get results like this. Why not let Carr call his own plays it can't be any worse than what we are seeing. Let AJ and Moulds come back in the huddle and tell Carr what they think is open. The two times in the past we did that we were successful. I have never liked coaches calling the plays. I have always wanted the QB's calling the plays and the coaches telling them what they are seeing when there are problems. There are simply two different perspectives of the game. What the QB may be seeing at ground level is very different from an overhead view. However, if the QB can
t see it because of what the defense is doing, then you need to do what they can see. Dealing with the Bolded here...
When/where do you THINK you heard that garbage...they're NOT trying to get pressure...suuuure. :confused:

Coaches call the plays for 32/32 teams - Yep, they even call them for Peyton, though he gets the option of switching the play at the LOS.

Ibar_Harry
09-17-2006, 11:12 PM
If we were loosing doing what our players did best, then I would say hey I guess we just don't have the talent. But I don't believe this is a talentless ball club when you have two all pro receivers you can line up at either end an a QB who can throw the ball. May be he is not perfect every time, but he can throw it. We have some good TE's this year and another 1 or 2 better than average WR's to go long with AJ and Moulds.

But we have to RUN RUN RUN RUN the ball and we really don't have good running backs. Now, Gado may prove to be good, but he's going to be much better if they aren't looking for him. Again, that happened in the 4th qtr, because we started passing and said the "H" with it. We looked a lot better. No, it was not just garbage time, we finally went to our strength. You are not going to stop AJ, Moulds and company on every play. They are also going to get yards after the catch and may break one.

What I'm really hoping is that Kubiak understands based on the 4th qtr what he is doing wrong and allows this ball club to compeat. This is a good offensive ball club if they will take the leashes off.

BlueThunder
09-17-2006, 11:20 PM
No matter how you look at it,this team is in better shape then before Kubs got here...Our QB is actually running the offense and limiting mistakes...Our line is on its way and we have cap room coming,.

If Capers was here we would still be in a cap he77 mojo,and losing..Bottom line:shoot:

utahmark
09-17-2006, 11:49 PM
All in garbage time. Carr choked when it was actually a game.

he was getting choked by their defensive lineman. there is a difference.

NATHANHALE
09-17-2006, 11:58 PM
IMO, part of the problem is that Kubiak 'talked' the 'talked' but has not 'walked' the 'talk.' From the 'get go,' Gary told us what we wanted to hear (sound familiar). For one, he said it was his job to put players in positions to use their strengths and excel. Too, he said he was going to do whatever it took to win 'one game at a time.' He said Carr would be protected and we would have to find ways to pressure the QBs in the league, especially in our own conference. He said more but let's start with this....

Caper's 'coaching not to lose' philosophy 'doomed' the Texans from day one, but Capers was good at telling us what we wanted to hear ("got to score and often, need TDs instead of field goals, on the verge, got the quality players we need, etc.) so we assumed everything was 'good to go' for the 5 yr plan--notttttttttt.

I think too many of us thought it was going to just be a simple matter of a 'tweak' here or there and winning was just around the corner, integrating the 'good' from the previous 4 yrs with Kubiak's system. We are wrong. For starters, Kubiak's system depends upon certain types of players and we don't have very many of them already on the team and-unfortunately-it could take a while to get all the necessary players.

Coach to a 'players' strength? I think we assumed that Kubiak was going to be flexible incorporating his system with the players already here and maybe a few of the things that were already in place. Not so. And, as we've found out, players already here were given a very 'short' leash to show they could effectively execute the 'new' systems.

I think we also assumed that Kubiak was going to be much more flexible than Capers and would change things when they were not working--ala the 'doing whatever' it took to win promise--but this has not been the case. Kubiak wants to run no matter whether it works or not and has shown he will play'musical chairs' with RBs until he gets what he wants.

I could go on and on but my point is that I realize now that I had wrong perceptions of what were going to happen with the team under Kubiak. I was guilty of believing we had more in place as a team that Gary could use to build the team around his way. I know now it is going to be a much longer process than I first thought, as we are indeed starting over from scratch. Several months back we had a thread on the board about whether the team was in a 'rebuilding' mode or a 'tweaking' mode, and I think we know now that 'tweak' is not the 'operative' word.

What to do? From a fan point, it's a matter of supporting the team while realizing that this is not going to be a short term fix or 'fading into the sun set.' The Broncos were not built over night but they had a 'major' advantage the Texans do not have (as I understand it)--this offense was desgned for the types of players they already had in place...something the Texans do not have yet.:)

Ibar_Harry
09-18-2006, 12:19 AM
IMO, part of the problem is that Kubiak 'talked' the 'talked' but has not 'walked' the 'talk.' From the 'get go,' Gary told us what we wanted to hear (sound familiar). For one, he said it was his job to put players in positions to use their strengths and excel. Too, he said he was going to do whatever it took to win 'one game at a time.' He said Carr would be protected and we would have to find ways to pressure the QBs in the league, especially in our own conference. He said more but let's start with this....

Caper's 'coaching not to lose' philosophy 'doomed' the Texans from day one, but Capers was good at telling us what we wanted to hear ("got to score and often, need TDs instead of field goals, on the verge, got the quality players we need, etc.) so we assumed everything was 'good to go' for the 5 yr plan--notttttttttt.

I think too many of us thought it was going to just be a simple matter of a 'tweak' here or there and winning was just around the corner, integrating the 'good' from the previous 4 yrs with Kubiak's system. We are wrong. For starters, Kubiak's system depends upon certain types of players and we don't have very many of them already on the team and-unfortunately-it could take a while to get all the necessaey players.

Coach to a 'players' strength? I think we assumed that Kubiak was going to be flexible incorporating his system with the players already here and maybe a few of the things that were already in place. Not so. And, as we've found out, players already here were given a very 'short' leash to show they could effectively execute the 'new' systems.

I think we also assumed that Kubiak was going to be much more flexible than Capers and would change things when they were not working--ala the 'doing whatever' it took to win promise--but this has not been the case. Kubiak wants to run no matter whether it works or not and has shown he will play'musical chairs' with RBs until he gets what he wants.

I could go on and on but my point is that I realize now that I had wrong perceptions of what were going to happen with the team under Kubiak. I was guilty of believing we had more in place as a team that Gary could use to build the team around his way. I know now it is going to be a much longer process than I first thought, as we are indeed starting over from scratch. Several months back we had a thread on the board about whether the team was in a 'rebuilding' mode or a 'tweaking' mode, and I think we know now that 'tweak' is not the 'operative' word.

What to do? From a fan point, it's a matter of supporting the team while realizing that this is not going to be a short term fix or 'fading into the sun set.' The Broncos were not built over night but they had a 'major' advantage the Texans do not have (as I understand it)--this offense was desgned for the types of players they already had in place...something the Texans do not have yet.:)

You have stated it far better than I ever could and it really is a summation of what the title of this thread is. I was hoping I was wrong, but I'm not. I could say some other things that have also become obvious, but many wouldn't believe it anyway. The above though is the situation and it looks like the wool was pulled over everyones' eyes. I was hoping this was not the case. I had hopes that may be he realized what was wrong with the way the 4th qtr went. However, based on other new casts, its obvious he has no understanding of what the problem really is..................

TexansBull
09-18-2006, 12:34 AM
I dont know if y'all realize this, but we went 2-14 last year. We just played two teams that are Superbowl caliber teams. Not just this season, but they have been that way for the past couple of seasons.

How do you expect in one offseason everything to be fixed?

It takes time. Have patience.

Kubiak has been in the passenger seat a long time, and this is his first time actually getting to drive the ca... beast. (Pun avoided.)

hollywood_texan
09-18-2006, 12:36 AM
I dont know if y'all realize this, but we went 2-14 last year. We just played two teams that are Superbowl caliber teams. Not just this season, but they have been that way for the past couple of seasons.

How do you expect in one offseason everything to be fixed?

It takes time. Have patience.

Kubiak has been in the passenger seat a long time, and this is his first time actually getting to drive the ca... beast. (Pun avoided.)

You are right, patience should be expected.

However, this is the second week in a row this team has had their jocks handed to them.

I think the next two home games will show a lot about this squad and what to expect the rest of the season.

TexansBull
09-18-2006, 12:49 AM
You are right, patience should be expected.

However, this is the second week in a row this team has had their jocks handed to them.

I think the next two home games will show a lot about this squad and what to expect the rest of the season.

Thats right. This team cant carry the jock of the other two teams we played, and those teams proved it. I was just as dissapointed as everyone else. I thought we would put up more of a fight and a showing. I had a case of :homer: ism.

I agree with you about the next two games. Washups is the better of the two, Miami proving that today against Buffalo. Both teams are overrated, but have similar problems like us.

This team should put up a better fight in those games, and start putting the pieces together...hopefully. I really dont wont to say win, but I hope we put up a better showing against teams that have a slim chance at playoffs than Indy and Philly, which could go all the way. I hope we can pull an upset though.

Ibar_Harry
09-18-2006, 01:06 AM
By the way I want you to understand that I am MAD because these gentlemen have worked their butts off trying to get ready for the season. For their effort to manifest itself on the field as we have seen has to be very disheartning to the players as a whole. It would appear the players are being placed in absolute failure mode once again without a chance of success. That is simply intolerable to me. I sincerely hope I'm wrong. If I keep discussing this I think I'm literally going to have a heart attack. I'm signing off as I have spoken my mind. Hopefully we make a lot better showing next week. I hope for the players sake they do. Its not fun losing all the time.

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
09-18-2006, 01:30 AM
Gary has also inhereted all of Dom's and Charlie's trash.......he has a lot to fix, with not enough time.........but he will make us a winner !

jerek
09-18-2006, 01:45 AM
Hervoyel I wish that just once on this board instead of knee-jerk reactions and short sighted posts we could have a legitimate discussion about gameplan, system, and personel. Nevermind, it will never happen so I will just stay out of this and continue throwing my two cents in....... Hell this type of posts is the main reason why certain people close to me no longer really post any meat to the board it is just sad....

threetoedpete
09-18-2006, 02:02 AM
I'm going to stay out of the Carr bickering, etc. but for the record, Kubiak is very different from Capers. We have a lot to work on, but they're not in the same universe as coaches. Offensive playcalling, while not as successful as we would like to see so far, is night and day different.

Defensively I agree that we are seeing too much Fangio and not enough adjustments right now, but comparing Kubiak to Capers is totally inaccurate and knee-jerk at this point.

Tell them the truth Jerek....we're hurt. You guys wanna bash Carr fine by me. I'm letting that go from now on. We can't run a man because our DBs suck. We've got one true blue chip DB. The rest are on the team because what's on the waiver wire is worse than what we got. The reason I know this is that two top five NFL QB's just ripped their two deep zone a new orifice. The guys back there didn't have a clue. And they're not likley to get one anytime soon. And...it ain't going to get any better untill the next off season.

We just lost our best OLT prospect to a knee cap injury when our new running back stud shattered it. Which means....we're reshuffeling the o-line, the fifth time in five seasons...(see a pattern developing here ?)...the same guys we had last year, same guys who deleverd us into the bottom of the NFL offensive food chain. So befor you have a coranary, better strap on the seat belt and get ready. We're in for a rough ride in '06. Can't run the ball, can't protect Satin, can't stop the run or get pressure on the correct QB. And it's all that Danged Carrs fault. He's satin, lol. Yeah, right.

Just for the record, at this point, I'm so frustrated , if I was Carr's agent I'd tell DC to buy out his contract and move on. He's too good for this franchise. This franchise sucks and is going to suck for the near future. Carr is waisting his time here.

texan279
09-18-2006, 06:34 AM
Wow, only took two games for the "sky is falling" "Kubiak sucks" threads. I have said it once and I will say it again, miracles do not happen overnight, especially for a first time head coach who took over one of the worst teams in the NFL.

wicked_wayz
09-18-2006, 06:47 AM
All in garbage time. Carr choked when it was actually a game.

what about the defence??????

texan279
09-18-2006, 07:23 AM
what about the defence??????

It was Carr's fault our defense gave up 43 points...:sarcasm:

Mr. White
09-18-2006, 07:37 AM
I've been expecting a "Fire Kubiak" thread since last week. Yesterday, I saw a thread called "Bring Back Vic Fangio." Getting close. This one's closer.

I'm setting the over/under at 1 week until a thread is called "Fire Kubiak."

Some of these tools act like the Texans losing a game is something new.

thunderkyss
09-18-2006, 08:09 AM
We've got one true blue chip DB.

That one blue chip got burned all night. There was a particualr play, where it looked like he was expecting help in the middle. Instead of making the tackle, then complaining, he stops and throws his hands up.

What's up with that??

That Blue chip looked kinda green to me.

Cjeremy635
09-18-2006, 08:12 AM
"COOLER HEADS PREVAIL"...remember that. I watched the game yesterday and was extrememly disappointed as well, about the team as a whole. All I could keep telling myself is that it takes a lot to rebuild a 2-14 team. Repeat that to yourselves about 20 times in a row. (it helps to stop the bleeding) Our secondary has killed us the past two weeks and has allowed other teams to score on us at will. Seriously, 80 yard drives in under 2 minutes on a repeated basis. That's horrible! :francis: The thing is, we don't really have a good shut down corner. I thought that Dunta was one, but I don't think he has that swagger he had his rookie year. He doesn't make a play on the ball anymore, non of our DB's do. What's the point in letting them catch the ball 15-20 yards down the field and then tackling them? They do it repeatedly and it's so frustrating. Take a gamble and play the ball! There are times when 4 DB's are around a receiver and wait for him to catch it and then tackle him. Why? Why not one guy play the ball and then if he doesn't get an interception, you've still got three guys standing there to tackle him when he catches it? I just don't think Dunta has the fire he once had (I know it's tough to maintain that on a dismal team). How long are our top tier players willing to stay on a losing team? This will be something we may have to look at near the end of the year if we don't turn this thing around and get close to a .500 season. I'm not being biased either, I spread the blame around evenly. This team played horrible today from the get go. I thing the first 2 snaps took whatever momentum we built up in the locker room and made us choke on it. A sack and a fumble in the first 2 plays? Horribly bad way to start the game against a top team. On the radio this morning Carr said that they started using "max protect" when we started scoring in the 4th qtr when Spencer got hurt. Why didn't we use it earlier in the game? I remember the Eagles using it a lot last week. Atleast that's what our team gave as an excuse to why we couldn't get to McNabb.

DocBar
09-18-2006, 08:21 AM
Of course he is different than Capers. And inherited a Capers team. How about giving the guy a whole season before writing him off? We have 14 more games to go and I don't expect them all to be like the first two.
I'm all for giving GK more time (like we have a choice), but we looked like a BAD college team out there. Just like preseason, we didn't move the ball well until the scrubs came in for the other team. I saw some positives yesterday, but saw WAY more negatives.
I can't figure out why the D is so bad. If we loaded up one side for a blitz, the ball went the other way. Bad luck or great playcalling by Manning? The Colts seemed like they were toying with us. Did anyone else see an awful lot of holding by the Colts O-line that wasn't called? I saw at least 7 plays where Peek, Weaver or Babin were damn near tackled and holding wasn't called. Not trying to whine about that, but seeing our D-line in a choke hold had me screaming at the TV most of the day.
Somebody PLEASE tell me what our safeties were doing!!! Were the put in bad positions due to schemes, make bad reads and get out of position or do they just plain suck? Same for our corners. Too many guys WIDE open.

Cjeremy635
09-18-2006, 08:29 AM
I'm all for giving GK more time (like we have a choice), but we looked like a BAD college team out there. Just like preseason, we didn't move the ball well until the scrubs came in for the other team. I saw some positives yesterday, but saw WAY more negatives.
I can't figure out why the D is so bad. If we loaded up one side for a blitz, the ball went the other way. Bad luck or great playcalling by Manning? The Colts seemed like they were toying with us. Did anyone else see an awful lot of holding by the Colts O-line that wasn't called? I saw at least 7 plays where Peek, Weaver or Babin were damn near tackled and holding wasn't called. Not trying to whine about that, but seeing our D-line in a choke hold had me screaming at the TV most of the day.
Somebody PLEASE tell me what our safeties were doing!!! Were the put in bad positions due to schemes, make bad reads and get out of position or do they just plain suck? Same for our corners. Too many guys WIDE open.


I saw that too and kept screaming about it. I saw our D line men being tackled to the ground and no flags being thrown and all I could say was if we had done that we would have gotten flagged for it. I'm not saying we lost because the ref's calls, we blew it on our own, but it would have been nice to get some of those calls to back the Colt's up.

thunderkyss
09-18-2006, 08:39 AM
Wow, only took two games for the "sky is falling" "Kubiak sucks" threads. I have said it once and I will say it again, miracles do not happen overnight, especially for a first time head coach who took over one of the worst teams in the NFL.

In all fairness, our running game has looked pathetic...... that hasn't happened in 4 years. Our Defense was horrid, and I don't see how anyone can blame a lack of a pass rush..... we didn't look like the steelers, but we sacked him twice, and flushed him out on several occassions......

We've never been blown out by the Colts like that before. that was a thorough shelacking, from start to finish......

I agree it's way too early for these kinds of threads, but how can you expect different.

What I will say, is that these are not the games that matter. We are learning, we are finding out who are players, and who are role models. I think Babin has solidified his spot on the starting Defensive line. Weaver looked better at tackle, and that may be where they start him. TJ might very well be Thomas Johnson & then Mario....... Soon as we find the best four, we can get them practicing together more, which is going to make them better.

Lewis Sanders is playing better than DuntaRobinson..... that's a problem that needs to be fixed, and we've got to teach our LBs how to cover.... whether we're talking zone, or man.

& our safeties don't appear to understand what they are supposed to be doing out there.

Offensively, we don't have the players to run the ZBS........ our runningbacks aren't making good decisions, and our OLine isn't opening multiple lanes. We now have Pitts, McKinney, Weary, & Wiegart...... just like last year. They should be able to open up some wholes like they did for DD........ DD was only avr right?? & we've got avg runningbacks now, shouldn't be a problem.

I was hoping Dane would get the bulk of our carries, but after seeing SamkonGado....... I'm thinking Dane will have to earn a spot, and make the most of the carries he gets.

But we are a 2-14 team doing exactly what a 2-14 team is supposed to be doing.... We won't be able to see what Kubiak is doing until week 9 or so. We'll hopefully get two wins with Washington & Miami coming up.... then our fair weather fans will be back on our side, even though those games will be as meaningless as these two losses. Hopefully we'll get Dallas, that is a tough team with a good coach, we won't luck into a win there, it's going to have to be all heart.
If we are still making personnel changes against Jacksonville, don't look to win that one(I know I predicted a sweep of jacksonville). & Tennesee should be a win...... unless Vince is starting by then. Then you might as well role the dice, or flip a coin.

But by the Tennessee game, we should see what we got. then we can start complaining.

jdog
09-18-2006, 09:43 AM
It looks like the plays were balanced between run and pass. You can't give up on the run. Plus, if teams are game planning on rush Carr, it is even more important to establish a run.

It looks like we have been out coached in these last two games, but we are implementing new systems. These teams have been perfecting their systems for some time. We can not adjust/execute as well right now.

Don't fire Kubiak. Don't bench Carr. Don't start thinking of who to draft with the first pick. The sky is not falling.

texan279
09-18-2006, 09:46 AM
In all fairness, our running game has looked pathetic...... that hasn't happened in 4 years. Our Defense was horrid, and I don't see how anyone can blame a lack of a pass rush..... we didn't look like the steelers, but we sacked him twice, and flushed him out on several occassions......

We've never been blown out by the Colts like that before. that was a thorough shelacking, from start to finish......

I agree it's way too early for these kinds of threads, but how can you expect different.

What I will say, is that these are not the games that matter. We are learning, we are finding out who are players, and who are role models. I think Babin has solidified his spot on the starting Defensive line. Weaver looked better at tackle, and that may be where they start him. TJ might very well be Thomas Johnson & then Mario....... Soon as we find the best four, we can get them practicing together more, which is going to make them better.

Lewis Sanders is playing better than DuntaRobinson..... that's a problem that needs to be fixed, and we've got to teach our LBs how to cover.... whether we're talking zone, or man.

& our safeties don't appear to understand what they are supposed to be doing out there.

Offensively, we don't have the players to run the ZBS........ our runningbacks aren't making good decisions, and our OLine isn't opening multiple lanes. We now have Pitts, McKinney, Weary, & Wiegart...... just like last year. They should be able to open up some wholes like they did for DD........ DD was only avr right?? & we've got avg runningbacks now, shouldn't be a problem.

I was hoping Dane would get the bulk of our carries, but after seeing SamkonGado....... I'm thinking Dane will have to earn a spot, and make the most of the carries he gets.

But we are a 2-14 team doing exactly what a 2-14 team is supposed to be doing.... We won't be able to see what Kubiak is doing until week 9 or so. We'll hopefully get two wins with Washington & Miami coming up.... then our fair weather fans will be back on our side, even though those games will be as meaningless as these two losses. Hopefully we'll get Dallas, that is a tough team with a good coach, we won't luck into a win there, it's going to have to be all heart.
If we are still making personnel changes against Jacksonville, don't look to win that one(I know I predicted a sweep of jacksonville). & Tennesee should be a win...... unless Vince is starting by then. Then you might as well role the dice, or flip a coin.

But by the Tennessee game, we should see what we got. then we can start complaining.

Just my opinion but I think we need a running back and major help in the secondary. I didn't get to watch the game yesterday, but after the rave over Gado after we traded for him I haven't read anything about what he did yesterday. And now Salaam will be starting at LT, I still think we should have held onto Wand.

texan279
09-18-2006, 09:50 AM
We got a running back and his name is Gado! :redtowel:

Like I said I didn't get to see the game, did he do anything yesterday?

Cjeremy635
09-18-2006, 09:50 AM
Just my opinion but I think we need a running back and major help in the secondary. I didn't get to watch the game yesterday, but after the rave over Gado after we traded for him I haven't read anything about what he did yesterday. And now Salaam will be starting at LT, I still think we should have held onto Wand.

I don't have his stats, be he was sufficient to say the least. He had some good runs and made good YAC.

Kaiser Toro
09-18-2006, 10:48 AM
To answer you in earnest Ibar I will use two quotes, one from Kubiak and one from Carr. To me this clearly shows the difference between darkness, Capers, and the light, Kubiak.

Kubiak
(on QB David Carr) “I told him last night at the hotel, I said, ‘David, you’re not going to have a lot of time to throw the ball, there’s going to be people in your face, people stripping at the ball, but we don’t use that as an excuse. We need to step up and play as well as we can play.’ But I thought David Carr battled and did some good things in the second half, but he’s got to play for four quarters, and I’m going be on his butt until he becomes a four-quarter player. And when he does that, our football team is going to get better. When you’re a quarterback and you think you can walk into this dome on Sunday and think you’re going be able to sit back there and pat the ball, you’re in the wrong ballpark.”

Carr
(on early game sack) “I have got to find a way to get back up and into the pocket. It is hard to put it on the offensive line because it is difficult for them because they are keying the defensive ends to get off of the ball.”

This statement alone gives me encouragement for the prospect of Carr turning into a value, gulp, at 7.25 million.

powerfuldragon
09-18-2006, 10:53 AM
i have to go to class. no more wasting time with all this tripe floating around boards today.

DocBar
09-18-2006, 10:53 AM
I don't have his stats, be he was sufficient to say the least. He had some good runs and made good YAC.
Gado had 3 carries for 36 yds with a long of 27. Pretty good downhill runner. I was surprised by his quickness and speed.

Cjeremy635
09-18-2006, 10:58 AM
Gado had 3 carries for 36 yds with a long of 27. Pretty good downhill runner. I was surprised by his quickness and speed.


Thanks DocBar, I couldn't remember what they were. Appreciate the stats and they are encouraging. :redtowel:

DocBar
09-18-2006, 11:14 AM
I'm usually not a conspiracy buff, but I'm starting to think our preseason opponents got together and decided to let us run on them so we'd get overconfident in that area. We looked awesome in the preseason and I'm having a hard time understanding why we look so awful now that they count. Same goes for the D-line. Anyways, I'm just venting some frustration about 2 areas I thought would be a strength. I drank the Kool-Aid and came back for seconds, I guess.
:spy: :homer: :spy:

Cjeremy635
09-18-2006, 11:19 AM
I'm usually not a conspiracy buff, but I'm starting to think our preseason opponents got together and decided to let us run on them so we'd get overconfident in that area. We looked awesome in the preseason and I'm having a hard time understanding why we look so awful now that they count. Same goes for the D-line. Anyways, I'm just venting some frustration about 2 areas I thought would be a strength. I drank the Kool-Aid and came back for seconds, I guess.
:spy: :homer: :spy:


Yeah, I drank the kool-aid as well..lol. I am curious as to what happened to our running game we showed in the preseason as well. That was out strong suit along with our defense, and both of those areas are nowhere to be found. Still looking for them....:Tumblewee

eriadoc
09-18-2006, 11:30 AM
Again, I keep saying the strength of this ball club is the WR's and TE's, not the runnig backs. We are a pass 1st run 2nd ball club.

Take a look at the first play of the game, or any of the subsequent sacks, or any of the multiple sacks, pressures, or hits that Carr has taken over the years and you'll realize we can't be a passing team. The lines on this team are atrocious. Fix that and everything else will fall into place, eventually.

texan279
09-18-2006, 11:33 AM
All I know is Capers got 4 years here, I am not willing to give up on Kubiak after 2 games, especially after having to endure the last 4 seasons. To me Kubiak has been one of the few brights spots for us so far.

DocBar
09-18-2006, 11:34 AM
That one blue chip got burned all night. There was a particualr play, where it looked like he was expecting help in the middle. Instead of making the tackle, then complaining, he stops and throws his hands up.

What's up with that??

That Blue chip looked kinda green to me.
I saw that and was shocked. I think DR might be reading his own press. He hasn't looked great since he had Glenn across from him and Coleman in the middle.

thunderkyss
09-18-2006, 11:41 AM
Just my opinion but I think we need a running back and major help in the secondary. I didn't get to watch the game yesterday, but after the rave over Gado after we traded for him I haven't read anything about what he did yesterday. And now Salaam will be starting at LT, I still think we should have held onto Wand.

I still think we should hold off on Runningback..... Kubiak should have the OL(which so far have been doing better in pass blocking(giving up 9 sacks) than they have been in run blocking.......

now later on, someone is going to use this post against me.... I only count the OL for 1 sack going into this game, and haven't broke down this game yet.... but I think they are doing fairly well, considering.

But run blociking they've been getting beat and Man handled.......

now the backfield.....

for the philly game, it was all linebackers...... McNabb & Westbrook took our lunch money and bragged about how we did nothing to stop them. Linebackers cover as well, and ours was making it easy for McNabb..... I suspect the same with Indy........ I'll try to force myself to watch the game again.

But Dunta was getting beat more than Sanders...... that ain't supposed to happen. Sander's problem has been that he's looking in the backfield, to support the run..... Dunta may have been doing the same. I think our DLine is doing as good as we can expect when we are changing the lineup every down & distance...... but our Linebackers have got to step up, so our safeties aren't always in prevent mode.

texan279
09-18-2006, 11:49 AM
I still think we should hold off on Runningback..... Kubiak should have the OL(which so far have been doing better in pass blocking(giving up 9 sacks) than they have been in run blocking.......

now later on, someone is going to use this post against me.... I only count the OL for 1 sack going into this game, and haven't broke down this game yet.... but I think they are doing fairly well, considering.

But run blociking they've been getting beat and Man handled.......

now the backfield.....

for the philly game, it was all linebackers...... McNabb & Westbrook took our lunch money and bragged about how we did nothing to stop them. Linebackers cover as well, and ours was making it easy for McNabb..... I suspect the same with Indy........ I'll try to force myself to watch the game again.

But Dunta was getting beat more than Sanders...... that ain't supposed to happen. Sander's problem has been that he's looking in the backfield, to support the run..... Dunta may have been doing the same. I think our DLine is doing as good as we can expect when we are changing the lineup every down & distance...... but our Linebackers have got to step up, so our safeties aren't always in prevent mode.

I cannot say for 100% on the backs TK, but I know our secondary is in dire need of help. I just have a feeling right now that we do not have our answer at running back yet. Maybe I am wrong.

DocBar
09-18-2006, 11:50 AM
I still think we should hold off on Runningback..... Kubiak should have the OL(which so far have been doing better in pass blocking(giving up 9 sacks) than they have been in run blocking.......

now later on, someone is going to use this post against me.... I only count the OL for 1 sack going into this game, and haven't broke down this game yet.... but I think they are doing fairly well, considering.
But run blociking they've been getting beat and Man handled.......

now the backfield.....

for the philly game, it was all linebackers...... McNabb & Westbrook took our lunch money and bragged about how we did nothing to stop them. Linebackers cover as well, and ours was making it easy for McNabb..... I suspect the same with Indy........ I'll try to force myself to watch the game again.

But Dunta was getting beat more than Sanders...... that ain't supposed to happen. Sander's problem has been that he's looking in the backfield, to support the run..... Dunta may have been doing the same. I think our DLine is doing as good as we can expect when we are changing the lineup every down & distance...... but our Linebackers have got to step up, so our safeties aren't always in prevent mode.
I have them down for 4 sacks. That's including Putzier getting embarrassed by Kearse. I consider TE's as part of the line. I have Carr down for 3 and the backs for 2.

WhyIsItAlwaysNextYear
09-18-2006, 11:54 AM
Whether we want to acknowledge it or not we still have a lot of crap on this team! Itís amazing how a few weak players can drag down your better players because of their need to take up the slack. Better coaching will improve the team but it takes better players to become a champion! Kubiak knows what he is doing, he kept sending the guys out and making them fight even though they were getting their a**es handed to them. Itís not the preseason anymore, once they cut it down to the 53 man roster especially on a quality team like the Colts their second team can bring it. Learning comes through repetition; you donít just pull your guys and go home because you are losing! As far a Kubiak being the same as Capers, that is BS! He stood right there in front of the camera and said we will not win until Carr plays well all 4 quarters! He called the stats misleading, Capers would never have spoken so directly, he would have given us the same old RC Sllooowwcum speech of the guys played hard and we have a bunch of good young men here and we will get them next time. We are a bad team; we were screw by the previous coach and Gm and wasted more of our previous draft picks than were used efficiently. That is going to cost us big time this year! Itís not fun to accept but we have a mediocre team at best who is starting the year with a terrible schedule which makes it all seem far too familiar. The Philly defense managed to get to Eli 8 times this week and Indy has put up more than 40 on some good teams last tear including the Patriots and the Bengalís. The next two weeks we face two teams that are struggling Washington and Miami, if we donít show improvement in those two games it will indeed be a miserable season. They say patience is a virtue but for Texans fans this year itís going to be a necessity!

dat_boy_yec
09-18-2006, 12:24 PM
It's easy to make that assumption saying Kubiak is the same as Capers judging from the results, but I have to disagree. The first game yeah I was truly disappointed, but then I thought about it. This is Kubiaks first game, it's his reality checks. I mean for him to come out and try some things he thought would work and have them blow up in his face is part of becoming a better coach if you learn from those mistakes. If you noticed Kubiak did learn some things from last game and while they were not hugely evident they were there. You noticed when we motioned the RB into the slot or wherever it was not an empty backfield there was somebody still back there if they needed to pick up the blitz. The thing I saw was that the pre-designed plays failed. The west coast offense comes out with what 10-15 scripted plays? Don't get me wrong I think it was stupid to make the first one a roll-out, but again this is something Kubiak will learn from. It didn't help that we couldn't get those 10-15 plays off in one drive, but again I think he will learn the scripted plays aren't necessary. Then the thing that gets me is how the coaching get's the blame, but had our players not messed up it would have been an entirely different game. I'm not saying we would have won or anything, but it would have been different. The second play where the snap was messed up we don't know what it was it may have been successful and we don't know if they ran the same play the next time they had a chance or went on to the next play on the list. What I do know is that stupid mistakes caused alot of drives to end. A 15 yd. penalty for a cut block where we ended up punting on fourth and one. Had it not been for that penalty we would have gotten the first down for sure and opportunity to keep going. I mean simple things like that mental mistakes on the field. I could go on, but I don't feel the need or inclination to do so. However our team did a lot better in the second half so I gotta say our coaching staff is learning. I'm sure we'll see some stupid calls or mistakes next week, but they'll be less often and the week after that until we realize our coaching staff does know what it's doing.

Hookem Horns
12-15-2010, 05:00 PM
I'm ticked, because we have been lied to again. Here me out before you start foaming at the mouth.

When Kubiak came here he said he would do what the players do best and are best at and capable of. Lefts talk about Indy for a moment. They have absolutely zero running game. What do they do? They use their strength the passing game to get the job done. The run is a side light to the rest of the game just like the 49ers of the past.

Folks we are in the same position. We have excellent wide receivers and TE's and what do we do? Of course you have to run the ball to Pass. That is absolute BS. Kubiak has the same 1 dimensional approach. If you can't run then its time to try the other avenue particularly when your strengths are your receivers. We should be stepping back and passing on every down instead of running twice and then getting into an obvious passing situation. Sorry, but I'm not happy with what I'm seeing and its time that all of these coaches wake up.

Defensively we have no clue. We are being eaten alive by a very good QB. However, we have seen the same think in two games and they have stated they are not going to try to put pressure on the QB. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. I'm sorry, but I'm extemely disappointed in what I'm seeing.

You are going nowhere with the current play calling. They are going to call all of the plays and get results like this. Why not let Carr call his own plays it can't be any worse than what we are seeing. Let AJ and Moulds come back in the huddle and tell Carr what they think is open. The two times in the past we did that we were successful. I have never liked coaches calling the plays. I have always wanted the QB's calling the plays and the coaches telling them what they are seeing when there are problems. There are simply two different perspectives of the game. What the QB may be seeing at ground level is very different from an overhead view. However, if the QB can't see it because of what the defense is doing, then you need to do what they can see.

Wow Ibar Harry, your post is just as relevant today as it was over 4 years ago ... and guess what? This team has still never made the playoffs.

Double Barrel
12-15-2010, 06:29 PM
Ibar Harry, aka David Carr's love child, is the fine example of the old saying about a blind squirrel getting an acorn sometimes.

In spite of the currently on-going and sometimes heated debate between the Sunshine Club and the Fire Kubiak Club, I am sooooo glad that the Fresno Mafia is no longer around to grace our company with their blasts of devoted love toward HWWNBN.

Two names that are a blast from the past: "the wonger need food" and "SESupergenius"

Hookem Horns
12-15-2010, 06:32 PM
"SESupergenius"

Was he the same as SESCoyote? He was the one that tried to destroy the website by logging into the server and destroying the database because of some issue he had with Vinny. IIRC he deleted most of the files before I figured out what was going on.

He had access because he helped with the initial move to here from the official site. He had a falling out with Vinny and I accidently left a back door open for him and it almost destroyed the site.

Fortunately I had the server backed up or Texans Talk as we know it today would have never existed.

Pantherstang84
12-15-2010, 06:33 PM
Ibar Harry, aka David Carr's love child, is the fine example of the old saying about a blind squirrel getting an acorn sometimes.

In spite of the currently on-going and sometimes heated debate between the Sunshine Club and the Fire Kubiak Club, I am sooooo glad that the Fresno Mafia is no longer around to grace our company with their blasts of devoted love toward HWWNBN.

Two names that are a blast from the past: "the wonger need food" and "SESupergenius"

They are blasts from the past. Wow.

Double Barrel
12-15-2010, 06:35 PM
Was he the same as SESCoyote? He was the one that tried to destroy the website by logging into the server and destroying the database because of some issue he had with Vinny. Fortunately I had the server backed up or Texans Talk as we know it today would have never existed.

yep, I believe that's one in the same. :headhurts:

And both of those posters are still in infinite timeout.

Hookem Horns
12-15-2010, 06:36 PM
yep, I believe that's one in the same. :headhurts:

And both of those posters are still in infinite timeout.

Yeah, I think trying to destroy the website is cause for a perm ban.

Pantherstang84
12-15-2010, 06:37 PM
Yeah, I think trying to destroy the website is cause for a perm ban.

You're probably right.

Double Barrel
12-15-2010, 06:41 PM
Yeah, I think trying to destroy the website is cause for a perm ban.

I had forgotten about that little incident. What a friggin' jerk. Good riddance.

infantrycak
12-15-2010, 08:28 PM
And both of those posters are still in infinite timeout.

I believe he has recently reincarnated at HT.com but so far he has behaved himself after being gone 2-3 years. Funny thing is he was actually a pretty knowledgeable football guy but he would just fall off the rails and go psycho occasionally.

DBCooper
12-16-2010, 10:33 AM
I believe he has recently reincarnated at HT.com but so far he has behaved himself after being gone 2-3 years. Funny thing is he was actually a pretty knowledgeable football guy but he would just fall off the rails and go psycho occasionally.

Maybe ya'll should come up with a psych test before people are allowed in the No Spin Zone