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View Full Version : Colts defend Texans' choice of Mario


nunusguy
09-16-2006, 10:04 AM
"I'm a defensive guy and the cornerstone to most championship teams is defense, if it's not a quarterback," he said. "To me it's a good pick if you're not passing on a John Elway or a Dan Marino. Guys like Lawrence Taylor and Bruce Smith, they become the cornerstones of great teams. (The Texans) think this is a cornerstone guy. I can absolutely see why they did it."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4191009.html
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Though I hardly think they would criticize the pick in the week of their game
against the Texans & Mario. It would really be interesting to know what they
think privately, off the record ?
But I'm now of the opinion that you always want to make every effort to trade the #1 overall for multiple picks, unless there is a QB of the Elway or
Marino stature in the Draft.

mexican_texan
09-16-2006, 11:02 AM
If anyone knows the value of a DE, its Indy. If it weren't for Dwight Freeney, there is no way they go 13-0 last year.

beerlover
09-16-2006, 11:11 AM
Freeney (#11) & Marino (#27) were not consenus #1 overall picks. While Reggie Bush was with Mario Williams a distant 2nd :twocents:

mexican_texan
09-16-2006, 11:15 AM
Freeney (#11) & Marino (#27) were not consenus #1 overall picks. While Reggie Bush was with Mario Williams a distant 2nd :twocents:
We've learned that Bush was NOT in fact, a consensus #1 pick. There's a reason the Saints could not get a trade and the Jets shyed away from a trade.

beerlover
09-16-2006, 11:22 AM
We've learned that Bush was NOT in fact, a consensus #1 pick. There's a reason the Saints could not get a trade and the Jets shyed away from a trade.

here we go again :shades:

beerlover
09-16-2006, 11:36 AM
Not knocking Mario (he was even a bit surprised the Texans were serious about signing him leading up to the draft) but the Texans made things real hard on themselves for not taking the consensus BPA. compounded by the fact the Texans are real thin @ RB & KR with both DD & JM out with injurys.

As for the Colts they took the consensus #1 pick in 98 by the name of Payton Manning, then the following year Edgerrin James (#4th pick).

RiotCommander
09-16-2006, 11:42 AM
Would you rather be lose games doing what you honestly believed was the right thing or lose because others pressured you into getting someone you really didn't want.


"They want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries." -Bill Parcells

Brandon420tx
09-16-2006, 11:45 AM
here we go again :shades:

You started it :francis:

DominickDavisFan76
09-16-2006, 11:47 AM
I don't know why we are comparing these 2 guys after just one game, im sure when Mario gets his first sack, or fumble recovery, or Interception, everyone will start talking about how its obvious that he was the #1 pick.....just let it go...

Marcus
09-16-2006, 11:59 AM
What you expect Tony Dungee to say?

"I think the Texans screwed up by taking Mario Williams with first overall pick. They should have taken either Bush or Vince Young." ????????:rolleyes:

And say that right before you go up against him the next game, just to give the guy a little extra incentive to do well????????

C'mon guys!:shades:

PapaL
09-16-2006, 12:05 PM
consensus: An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole

Who was the #1 Pick? Then Bush was not the consensus #1 pick.

nunusguy
09-16-2006, 12:18 PM
IMO, the Texans selecting Reggie Bush in the Draft and getting the highest
value for their #1 overall pick were mutually exclusive considerations.
Therefor, they did the right thing by passing on Bush but made less than the
best choice among other options, which would have included a trade for multiple picks. Say we got Laurence Maroney (probably the best back in the
Draft for the Texans - unlike Bush he can run off tackle "and" inside the tackles), and one of the top CBs who might be starting for us right now.
We will probably never know why they didn't trade the pick, but the Texans blew that opportunity by not having a solid backup plan ready to execute in
the event that they cooled on Bush, for whatever reason.

thunderkyss
09-16-2006, 12:23 PM
Not knocking Mario (he was even a bit surprised the Texans were serious about signing him leading up to the draft) but the Texans made things real hard on themselves for not taking the consensus BPA. compounded by the fact the Texans are real thin @ RB & KR with both DD & JM out with injurys.

As for the Colts they took the consensus #1 pick in 98 by the name of Payton Manning, then the following year Edgerrin James (#4th pick).


when was the last time Denver took a running back in the first round....... when??

It ain't never happened, it ain't never gonna happen.

& it won't happen in houston. Even if it takes 10 years to get the ZBS game going in Houston...... forget about 1st round runningbacks.

Look for the guys who do just as well as Reggie, but don't get the media hype.

Think about guys like ClintonPortis & Tatum Bell.....

bigTEXan8
09-16-2006, 12:42 PM
i personally think that both mario and bush were #1 picks. the thing was though, you got to figure out what your personal opinion is on winning championships; defense or offense. i think that kubiak wanted to solidify the defense, because a offense can be developed...JMO.

feebleminded
09-16-2006, 01:42 PM
As for the Colts they took the consensus #1 pick in 98 by the name of Payton Manning, then the following year Edgerrin James (#4th pick).

I think that is a little bit if revisionist history. There was a ton of debate between Manning and Leaf at the time. There is no way Manning was the consensus #1 overall pick that year. Most of Peyton's detractors at the time pointed out his perceived inability to "win the big one" while at Tennessee.

Hookem Horns
09-16-2006, 03:09 PM
I think that is a little bit if revisionist history. There was a ton of debate between Manning and Leaf at the time. There is no way Manning was the consensus #1 overall pick that year. Most of Peyton's detractors at the time pointed out his perceived inability to "win the big one" while at Tennessee.

Also, the pick of Edge James over Ricky Williams was highly critisized by the media. The Colts got lucky on both Manning and James. How many teams would have been sitting there with Leaf and Ricky Williams?

texplayer2
09-16-2006, 03:35 PM
I don't know why we are comparing these 2 guys after just one game, im sure when Mario gets his first sack, or fumble recovery, or Interception, everyone will start talking about how its obvious that he was the #1 pick.....just let it go... The biggest difference between these two guys is leadership and football play. Mario is big and strong and might be a good defensive end when we get a leader for our D.( such as Sharper provided) Demeco might be that guy soon. I think what we lacked to pick-up with Bush was an Identity or leadership. The whole media and most teams focus on Bush. The game Bush got very few yards against the Cowboys, I watched them fake it to him and throw their first and maybe only first down of the first half. The entire defense was concentrating on him. Williams might be a good player, but he hasn't shown much yet. Bush won a title at SC and as I watched the Texans lose the first game the station kept breaking in with Reggie Bush update stats. And having picked him at #1 instead of Bush thier will allllllwwwwwaaaayyyyysss be comparisons.

beerlover
09-16-2006, 08:15 PM
the point being the Colts took the consensus #1 pick QB Manning then next year drafted a #1 RB (although 4th pick overall). revisonist or not the Colts went from 3-13 Paytons 1st season to 13-3 James 1st season. clearly there is some blueprint there to follow along and play competitive NFL football while entertaining their paying fans to a compelling show of skill players.....

thunderkyss
09-16-2006, 11:31 PM
the point being the Colts took the consensus #1 pick QB Manning then next year drafted a #1 RB (although 4th pick overall). revisonist or not the Colts went from 3-13 Paytons 1st season to 13-3 James 1st season. clearly there is some blueprint there to follow along and play competitive NFL football while entertaining their paying fans to a compelling show of skill players.....

I think he is saying that Peyton was not the consensus #1.... that some people had Ryan Leaf rated better than Peyton. I didn't get into the draft back then, and looking at both players now, I don't see how that could be. But Tim Couch was graded higher than McNabb once upon a time.

& Edgerin was definitely not the #1 runningback..... it was Ricky Williams by a substantial Margin. I believe most were as shocked about that, as people were about us passing on Reggie.

So we drafted David Carr with the first overall in '02..... consensus #1 correct?? We also pick up a WR in the second round...... Jabar Gaffney. The next year, we pick up AJ........ definite 1st round material, and we get a gem in DD the second day...........

I don't see where we deviated from the blueprint, that turns 3-13 teams into 13-3 teams.

feebleminded
09-17-2006, 02:03 AM
the point being the Colts took the consensus #1 pick QB Manning then next year drafted a #1 RB (although 4th pick overall). revisonist or not the Colts went from 3-13 Paytons 1st season to 13-3 James 1st season. clearly there is some blueprint there to follow along and play competitive NFL football while entertaining their paying fans to a compelling show of skill players.....

My point was that Manning was not the consensus #1 pick in that draft.

Manning is a success because of the player that he is along with the offensive system that he is playing in and the way he has been coached and developed. I dont think that the blueprint is as simple as it may appear. Successful teams clearly need to have talented players, but they also need to have strong coaching staffs with sound offensive and defensive schemes suited to the personnel.

eriadoc
09-17-2006, 02:27 AM
What you expect Tony Dungee to say?

"I think the Texans screwed up by taking Mario Williams with first overall pick. They should have taken either Bush or Vince Young." ????????:rolleyes:

And say that right before you go up against him the next game, just to give the guy a little extra incentive to do well????????

C'mon guys!:shades:

Realistically, if he thought Mario was a bad pick, he'd probably say something PC like "Well, Bush is tremendous talent and it takes a lot to pass him up. They obviously felt that was the direction they needed to go in and I think they'll both have fine careers".

Everyone likes to pull out the old "what do you expect them to say?" argument, as if that bolsters their position. Coaches pretty much DO say what they think, they just don't say it in the most direct, abrasive manner they can come up with.

siconik
09-17-2006, 03:28 AM
Er... Ryan Leaf would not be "The Biggest Bust Evah~" if Manning was consensus #1. In fact, there was no consensus what-so-ever: Prior to the draft there were neverending Manning Vs Leaf debates, a third of the teams had Leaf over Manning on their draft boards and 3 weeks into the season the newspapers were filled with "Looks like Colts made a mistake" stories.

beerlover
09-17-2006, 04:35 AM
anyone who thinks that Reggie Bush was not the consensus #1 overall pick is -

A. sugar coating the situation
B. buying into the local propaganda
c. doesn't know or follow College Football
d. has never subscribed to a reputable draft service

second thing, Dungee is a professional, he is not the kind of coach to provide bulletin board material before gameday to the opponent he is matched up against. Also his first year in Indy was 2002 & being a defensive minded coach drafted Dwight Freeney. the common thread is both drafted DE's with their first picks as head coach, the difference is the Texans held the rights to the #1 overall pick while the Colts picked #11.

third issue is how does Mario rate as a NFL player & was he worthy of the top pick? I would say unequivocally yes! He should develop into the proto-typical Defensive Linemen with the ability to move inside & out, very much like Reggie White, that should be enough to equate to what Reggie Bush accomplishes in his career but thats alot to ask of the young man, its putting added pressure both on him & Kubiak. I really hope Mario Williams just stays healthy & keeps progressing, its not realistic he can keep up with Bush but he can start by sacking Payton Manning in a few more hours :fireball:

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
09-17-2006, 09:12 AM
Tony is a true class act, and speaks from his heart........I admire him as a coach and a person..... I like what Tony had to say about having Mario in Houston, basically it is hard to judge a book by it's cover....so with only one game into the season it is almost impossible to give a true assesment of Mario Williams.......

thunderkyss
09-17-2006, 12:37 PM
anyone who thinks that Reggie Bush was not the consensus #1 overall pick is -

A. sugar coating the situation
B. buying into the local propaganda
c. doesn't know or follow College Football
d. has never subscribed to a reputable draft service


& if you think Reggie was the consensus #1, you

A: fell for the ESPN hype machine.....

you have to consider the fact........... FACT, that in this draft, no one considered the need of the #1 team. In every other draft, you know who the #1 is going to be, mainly due to the fact that you know what that teams biggest need is, and who is the top talent in the draft.

NewOrleans was a lock to pick up a QB before they signed Drew Brees....... that changed everything. Why?? did the non QBs suddenly become better prospects than Matt Lienart or Vince Young??

No...... New Orleans was no longer in need of a QB, Tennessee picked their QB. NewYork had half a dozen QBs fighting for the starting spot. SF got their QB last year, and on, and on, and on.... Matt Lienart goes #10 to Arizona..... with their aging QB.

Did Houston need a Runningback?? We had DD, we had Morency..... two promising Runningbacks, we had the luxury to draft a project RB if we wanted. We also have the coach of one of the leading rushing attacks for the last decade, who gets results with second day talent. No, we didn't need a running back.

Did we need an explosive playmaker on offense?? We've got AJ. So I say..... no. you don't draft a #2 WR with the first overall, unless you're the Detroit Lions. You don't draft a decoy playmaker, unless you're NewOrleans..

Did we need a $50 million punt returner?? Does anybody??

Consensus #1...... this year, was all hype. Nothing against Reggie, but the #1... all draft picks are best available, at the position that you need.

DBrickshaw is not a better athlete/player than MattLienart. VernonDavis is not a better pick than Matt Lienart. AJ Hawk....... is most definitely not a better football player than MattLIenart...... Michael Huff...... close...... very close..... Donte Whitner...... Ernie Simms....... c'mon........

beerlover
09-17-2006, 10:02 PM
SCOREBOARD

SAINTS 2-0 TEXANS 0-2

Aztequila
09-17-2006, 10:23 PM
If we got a crack at the teams the saints played, we may well be 2-0 as well. I will say this, though I think prior to the DD going on IR, mario was needed more, the tables have turned, and bush is looking more and more like the one that got away. Giving up 40+, even though it is peyton, is pretty damn bad and not saying much for the "improved" pass rush. We may be in for another long season.

mexican_texan
09-17-2006, 10:33 PM
SCOREBOARD

SAINTS 2-0 TEXANS 0-2
Just a hint: that's not a scoreboard.

Browns: 0-2
Pack: 0-2

Eagles:1-1 and headed to playoffs
Indy: 2-0 and headed to playoffs