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View Full Version : Leave Mario @ DE!!


dat_boy_yec
09-13-2006, 11:44 PM
When we took him with the first overall pick that was something I liked. He can play up and down the line, we can use that to create mismatches, badass!! So I thought. However the more I think about it the more I think he should be left at DE. I learned this lesson after watching the Weaver @ DT expirement. I mean it's just logical, if it didn't work with Weaver who is a seasoned veteran, then how much success will it have with Mario? Mario can be a great DT, if he gained weight and focused on playing DT, but here's the thing. WE GOT HIM TO PLAY DE!!! Whatever happened to Kubiak saying he would put our players in a position to succeed. Not trying to put a square piece in a round hole and all that? I know I'm not the only one that see's this. Everytime that Mario is interviewed he's asked about playing DT and he says it's something that he needs to get used too and has to work at. When asked his preference he always says his preference is @ DE. Kubiak confused me with alot of commentary he's made this week, because it contradicted itself at times. Mario doesn't seem to be struggling mentally. Then he turns around and says he's being hesitant and not cutting loose. Gee, that doesn't sound like a player who's not having problems mentally. A player sure of himself and what he's supposed to do is going to cut it loose. However a player not sure will play like Mario. Mario isn't going to come out and tell anybody that he's not comfortable or that he's not up to the challenge, the guy is a competitor what's Mario supposed to do. Kubiak needs to do what he said he would do and put Mario in the position to succeed. That would be @ DE. I know I'm not the only one that feels that way and if you disagree I'm open to debate.

12Gage
09-13-2006, 11:55 PM
I agree, but he only moves there in passing 3rd downs to get Peek in there. And Peek is one player that goes 110% every play, so I am all for having him on the field.

WILLIEG
09-13-2006, 11:58 PM
Bro you took the words right out of my mouth. If he is gong to become successful in this league the coaching staff should try to get him as many reps in at that postion which he was drafted to play. All the kid needs to do is work harder at his hand work and start punching the **** out of those Tackles or swat and swiming those fools like he was in the ocean swiming away from a hungry shark.

Texas_Thrill
09-14-2006, 01:16 AM
Bro you took the words right out of my mouth. If he is gong to become successful in this league the coaching staff should try to get him as many reps in at that postion which he was drafted to play. All the kid needs to do is work harder at his hand work and start punching the **** out of those Tackles or swat and swiming those fools like he was in the ocean swiming away from a hungry shark.

Agreed. We've got to milk this kid at DE for all its worth. Then once he's playing more than he's thinking then try him at some other places but all the moving around is confusing him.

Ibar_Harry
09-14-2006, 01:26 AM
Sounds like the KISS principle to me.

phantom17
09-14-2006, 01:28 AM
I totally agree! Mario should just stay @ DE- strong or weak side, to learn his craft! Man, forget about DT or maybe once in a while:francis: !

texan279
09-14-2006, 01:32 AM
I say just put him in at RDE and leave him there for awhile and at least let him get comfortable at the position we drafted him to play. Let him get comfortable at DE then maybe try moving him around.

HJam72
09-14-2006, 01:39 AM
Maybe they'll do that next year, when Babin, Peek, or both are traded away.

The other thing is that Mario's moves really suck, frankly, from what I've seen. He's a bull-rusher and that doesn't make sense when playing DE in the NFL, but it can work at DT, if you're strong enough and willing to take on double teams, which free up other defenders.

thunderkyss
09-14-2006, 08:58 AM
Maybe they'll do that next year, when Babin, Peek, or both are traded away.

The other thing is that Mario's moves really suck, frankly, from what I've seen. He's a bull-rusher and that doesn't make sense when playing DE in the NFL, but it can work at DT, if you're strong enough and willing to take on double teams, which free up other defenders.

What's funny, is that Babin & Peek are roughly the size of Denver's DEs..... and they are both playing really well. I think Babin has put more pressure on the opposing QB than any of our other DEs since the StL preseason game.

Against Philly, he played most of the second half on the strong side. Leaving Mario on the weekside. I hope to see more of this during the Indy game.

Personally, I don't mind seeing Mario move inside. If he understands those big guys can't handle his speed, he'll be a monster. But right now, he's trying to over power them.

But I definitely think moving him in as often as we are is what's killing him. every other down or something like that. 1st & 10....... that don't make sense. If we back them up to 1st & 15 because of a penalty........ or something like that, yeah, get the fast guys out there. Babin, TJ, Mario, & Peek. But 3rd & 8 should still be our base line...... which should be Babin, TJ, Payne, Mario.

& I liked how Philly completely swaped their defensive line in the second Qtr. they got three sacks in that half, because they had a completely new Line for the first 7 or 8 minutes. then they started putting the fresh starters back in the game.

The way we're doing it, no one (especially Mario) ever gets into a rhythm.

real
09-14-2006, 09:12 AM
& I liked how Philly completely swaped their defensive line in the second Qtr. they got three sacks in that half, because they had a completely new Line for the first 7 or 8 minutes. then they started putting the fresh starters back in the game.

The way we're doing it, no one (especially Mario) ever gets into a rhythm.

Philly switched their line every other series throughout the whole game...

But I agree..I think they are moving Mario too much...They need to wait until he masters one spot before they start putting him all over the place...I can understand putting him in the middle on definite passing plays just to get as much speed on the field as possible, but the way they are doing it he never has time to think between snaps...I think if he went against the same guy for 85% of the game he would actually be able to think about how to beat the guy...but instead he doesn't have time to think about that because he'e too worried about his constantly changing assignment and alignment...

Sportsfan
09-14-2006, 09:19 AM
When we took him with the first overall pick that was something I liked. He can play up and down the line, we can use that to create mismatches, badass!! So I thought. However the more I think about it the more I think he should be left at DE. I learned this lesson after watching the Weaver @ DT expirement. I mean it's just logical, if it didn't work with Weaver who is a seasoned veteran, then how much success will it have with Mario? Mario can be a great DT, if he gained weight and focused on playing DT, but here's the thing. WE GOT HIM TO PLAY DE!!! Whatever happened to Kubiak saying he would put our players in a position to succeed. Not trying to put a square piece in a round hole and all that? I know I'm not the only one that see's this. Everytime that Mario is interviewed he's asked about playing DT and he says it's something that he needs to get used too and has to work at. When asked his preference he always says his preference is @ DE. Kubiak confused me with alot of commentary he's made this week, because it contradicted itself at times. Mario doesn't seem to be struggling mentally. Then he turns around and says he's being hesitant and not cutting loose. Gee, that doesn't sound like a player who's not having problems mentally. A player sure of himself and what he's supposed to do is going to cut it loose. However a player not sure will play like Mario. Mario isn't going to come out and tell anybody that he's not comfortable or that he's not up to the challenge, the guy is a competitor what's Mario supposed to do. Kubiak needs to do what he said he would do and put Mario in the position to succeed. That would be @ DE. I know I'm not the only one that feels that way and if you disagree I'm open to debate.

Did you listen to 610 yesterday from about 5 to 5:30? Because thats almost exactly what Vandermeer said, i'm serious, like word-for-word. LOL lol:

real
09-14-2006, 09:36 AM
Kubiak confused me with alot of commentary he's made this week, because it contradicted itself at times. Mario doesn't seem to be struggling mentally. Then he turns around and says he's being hesitant and not cutting loose. Gee, that doesn't sound like a player who's not having problems mentally. A player sure of himself and what he's supposed to do is going to cut it loose.


I don't think that's neccessarily a contradiction...He sayed He's not struggling mentally, but he's apprehensive about cutting loose... When he said he's not struggling mentally, he was probably reffering to picking up the schemes, knowing his assignments and picking up plays...Mario doesn't seem like he is having trouble with that...It is true that not cutting loose is a mental thing, but I just think when he said Mario isn't struggling mentally he was talking about what I stated above...

real
09-14-2006, 09:36 AM
Does anyone know Mario's Wunderlich score ?

Texans_Chick
09-14-2006, 09:43 AM
My most recent NFL Fanhouse blog post has more info on this point:

Link: Dwight Freeney Criticizes Texans Use of Mario Williams (http://nfl.aolsportsblog.com/2006/09/14/dwight-freeney-criticizes-texans-use-of-mario-williams/)

Personally, I don't think it is a reflection of what they really want to do, or what is best for Williams individually, it is just a matter of putting the best 4 players on the field at a time. With the glut of DEs, and not much DT depth, it just is what it is.

Kubiak hasn't decided this in stone from what he has said in his remarks, but I think it is a lack of options issue. (There are just so many personnel changes you can make in a year).

Mr Shush
09-14-2006, 09:52 AM
Linked is Michael David Smith of Footballoutsiders.com's assessment of Mario's performance against the Eagles. He draws pretty much the same concusion.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/2006/09/13/ramblings/every-play-counts/4223/

Cjeremy635
09-14-2006, 10:07 AM
My most recent NFL Fanhouse blog post has more info on this point:

Link: Dwight Freeney Criticizes Texans Use of Mario Williams (http://nfl.aolsportsblog.com/2006/09/14/dwight-freeney-criticizes-texans-use-of-mario-williams/)

Personally, I don't think it is a reflection of what they really want to do, or what is best for Williams individually, it is just a matter of putting the best 4 players on the field at a time. With the glut of DEs, and not much DT depth, it just is what it is.

Kubiak hasn't decided this in stone from what he has said in his remarks, but I think it is a lack of options issue. (There are just so many personnel changes you can make in a year).


Nice article Texans Chick, a good read as usual. I agree that Mario should be allowed to excel at a position for a change and let him be a domiate player. If he appears lost and not comfortable, teams aren't going to have to game plan for him because he isn't a threat. Everyone here know's the saying, "Jack of all trades, Master of none." I would hate to see Mario end up in a position that drives him to "average", because his physical abilities are way above average.

Hulk75
09-14-2006, 10:24 AM
When we took him with the first overall pick that was something I liked. He can play up and down the line, we can use that to create mismatches, badass!! So I thought. However the more I think about it the more I think he should be left at DE. I learned this lesson after watching the Weaver @ DT expirement. I mean it's just logical, if it didn't work with Weaver who is a seasoned veteran, then how much success will it have with Mario? Mario can be a great DT, if he gained weight and focused on playing DT, but here's the thing. WE GOT HIM TO PLAY DE!!! Whatever happened to Kubiak saying he would put our players in a position to succeed. Not trying to put a square piece in a round hole and all that? I know I'm not the only one that see's this. Everytime that Mario is interviewed he's asked about playing DT and he says it's something that he needs to get used too and has to work at. When asked his preference he always says his preference is @ DE. Kubiak confused me with alot of commentary he's made this week, because it contradicted itself at times. Mario doesn't seem to be struggling mentally. Then he turns around and says he's being hesitant and not cutting loose. Gee, that doesn't sound like a player who's not having problems mentally. A player sure of himself and what he's supposed to do is going to cut it loose. However a player not sure will play like Mario. Mario isn't going to come out and tell anybody that he's not comfortable or that he's not up to the challenge, the guy is a competitor what's Mario supposed to do. Kubiak needs to do what he said he would do and put Mario in the position to succeed. That would be @ DE. I know I'm not the only one that feels that way and if you disagree I'm open to debate.
I have been saying leave him there for a while....................Let him play in one spot bring him down maybe twice a game only when you trying to mess with people.

Hervoyel
09-14-2006, 12:33 PM
Ibar, I know you like that avatar but I'm just going to ask you politely if you wouldn't mind trying to find another one you dig and let the "Fire Capers Club" go.

I created that avatar and I'm so glad that the team has finally done it and moved on but if I'm not mistaken you're the only guy in here trying to get Dom fired from his Miami gig. I just don't think that's right.

Lets move on to greener pastures and try to let go of that terrible time in 2005. Seriously, if you'll change I'll whip you up any avatar you request. Just gimmie the word on what you want and I'll get right on it.

Like I said though I cannot make you change it, I'm just asking, nay pleading with you to put an end to the reign of the pink soap boys.

GP
09-14-2006, 01:59 PM
I have been saying leave him there for a while....................Let him play in one spot bring him down maybe twice a game only when you trying to mess with people.

Why don't we use a 5-3-3 or a 5-2-4:


Williams(DE)--Kalu(T)--TJ(G)--Payne(NG)--Weaver(G)--Peek/Babin(T)

This lines up 4 guys (Kalu, TJ, Payne, Weaver, and Peek/Babin) on the other team's T, G, C, G, T leaving Mario to line up at either "end" position and therefore free to just blitz the QB or play contain/pursuit on running plays.

We would still have either 3 LBs or 2 LBs, depending on whether we wanted a run defense or a pass defense. Run defense, we go: 5-3-3 with five down linemen, 3 LBs, 2 CBs, and 1 S. On pass defense, we go: 5-2-4 with five down linemen, 2 LBs, 2 CBs, and 2 S or or 1 S and an extra CB to cover or free up and blitz at the last second...or play cover and let one of the 2 LBs blitz.

To heck with this idea of us rotating in four guys for our 4-3. Scrap the 4-3 and put four down linemen out there with Mario free to do what he did at NC State: Storm the backfield.

What they are doig with Mario is what Washington did with Lavar: They are KILLING his athleticism and playmaking ability. Mario is a guy who needs to line up far outside and beat a man around the edge. That's what he does best.

run-david-run
09-14-2006, 03:10 PM
What about leaving Weaver inside for most of the Colts game? Seeing as they are reluctant to run the ball, we should go out with the idea of pressuring Payton.
Williams TJ Weaver Babin/Peek

FWIW- Peek had a couple of sacks on Manning last year in INdy, against Tarik Glenn

HOU-TEX
09-14-2006, 03:57 PM
What about leaving Weaver inside for most of the Colts game? Seeing as they are reluctant to run the ball, we should go out with the idea of pressuring Payton.
Williams TJ Weaver Babin/Peek

FWIW- Peek had a couple of sacks on Manning last year in INdy, against Tarik Glenn

I wouldn't mind seeing that at all. Maybe move Mario to the weak side. I like it! It would allow Payne to be among the DTs that rotate in.:redtowel:

dat_boy_yec
09-14-2006, 06:09 PM
Sounds like the KISS principle to me.

What's that?

dat_boy_yec
09-14-2006, 06:19 PM
Maybe they'll do that next year, when Babin, Peek, or both are traded away.

The other thing is that Mario's moves really suck, frankly, from what I've seen. He's a bull-rusher and that doesn't make sense when playing DE in the NFL, but it can work at DT, if you're strong enough and willing to take on double teams, which free up other defenders.

I disagree, I think him playing at DT so much has made him more of a bullrusher. However, I didn't follow him in college and only saw a small clip of him. He performed a good swim move and was usually in the backfield. I mean if we had wanted to get a DT we should have gotten a DT not Mario. I wouldn't mind him switching sides as a DE to get other DE's on the field, but to put him inside isn't the solution. I'll draw a comparison to Peppers and see what you guys think. Would you take out Jenkins on third down and move Peppers inside and bring in another DE to play Peppers position. I don't think that would be a good idea at all. First off whoever comes in will be dealing with the same thing Peppers was dealing with so he wouldn't be at an advantage and Peppers wouldn't do as well as Jenkins, because aside from not being as big as Jenkins he is not as effective as Jenkins is on the inside. I think moving Mario moving inside so much is not only hurting him, but our whole line.

TexanBronco
09-14-2006, 08:40 PM
When we took him with the first overall pick that was something I liked. He can play up and down the line, we can use that to create mismatches, badass!! So I thought. However the more I think about it the more I think he should be left at DE. I learned this lesson after watching the Weaver @ DT expirement. I mean it's just logical, if it didn't work with Weaver who is a seasoned veteran, then how much success will it have with Mario? Mario can be a great DT, if he gained weight and focused on playing DT, but here's the thing. WE GOT HIM TO PLAY DE!!! Whatever happened to Kubiak saying he would put our players in a position to succeed. Not trying to put a square piece in a round hole and all that? I know I'm not the only one that see's this. Everytime that Mario is interviewed he's asked about playing DT and he says it's something that he needs to get used too and has to work at. When asked his preference he always says his preference is @ DE. Kubiak confused me with alot of commentary he's made this week, because it contradicted itself at times. Mario doesn't seem to be struggling mentally. Then he turns around and says he's being hesitant and not cutting loose. Gee, that doesn't sound like a player who's not having problems mentally. A player sure of himself and what he's supposed to do is going to cut it loose. However a player not sure will play like Mario. Mario isn't going to come out and tell anybody that he's not comfortable or that he's not up to the challenge, the guy is a competitor what's Mario supposed to do. Kubiak needs to do what he said he would do and put Mario in the position to succeed. That would be @ DE. I know I'm not the only one that feels that way and if you disagree I'm open to debate.

I agree 100% leave him at what he knows best at least till he get rolling

The Pencil Neck
09-14-2006, 09:52 PM
What's that?

Keep
It
Simple,
Stupid.

HTH.

Goldeagle
09-14-2006, 10:08 PM
I dont know

DE: Peek
DT: Williams
DT: Johnson
DE: Babin

That line up would get to the QB for sure!

mexican_texan
09-14-2006, 11:28 PM
Look at this from a different perspective. Mario said that he used the preseason to work on technique. I'm thinking the coaches are playing him against different types of offensive linemen so that he could work on some moves.

infantrycak
09-14-2006, 11:35 PM
I dont know

DE: Peek
DT: Williams
DT: Johnson
DE: Babin

That line up would get to the QB for sure!

Except for last weekend.

blockhead83
09-14-2006, 11:51 PM
Except for last weekend.

Yea we got to see that killer line up on plenty of passing situations against the Eagles. Babin and Peek tried coming around the edge and got pushed past McNabb, while TJ and Mario got stood up by the centers and guards. It really formed a pretty pocket for McNabb to step up into. I'd really like Mario to get some reps at DE on those passing situations, he was a pretty good pass rusher off the edge in college.... It's harder for him to notch some sacks if he's playing at DT on the plays where the QB is likely to take some time to throw.

phan1
09-15-2006, 02:06 AM
I like him playing DT. If he becomes good at it, he really becomes a great asset to this team. I'm comfortable with whatever the coaches want really. I think Williams will let the coaches know whether or not he can handle playing DT. Like the rest of his game, it's still wait and see. He did it in college, I think he can do it in the pros. He could be a matchup nightmare if he is able to play any DL position. It will obviously slow him down but the rewards outway the cost. Williams is a mentally tough guy and I don't see him cracking simply because he doesn't want to be moved up and down the line.

There's also the fact that I don't want to leave Babin or Peek on the bench in 3rd down situations. Right now they can rush the QB better, so you just want to put Mario on the shelf for 3rd down situations? Rotate assignments with Mario on 3rd down situations? Sorry, I want the D off the field after that 3rd down play. The team really needs him to be there and to be honest, we don't have ANYTHING to lose by putting him there.

As for Freeny's comments, hey, this guy does 1 thing: rush the QB. He is the best in the game at it but that's pretty much all he does, so I wouldn't take his opinion too seriously. He would never be in a position where it would be advantageous to the team to play DT. They're just 2 really different players Freeney and Williams are.