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TEXANS84
09-13-2006, 12:14 AM
For all the haters, and yes...for the record I saw the same things and was signifigantly frustrated...here are a few stats comparing Mario's Rookie year to Freeney's rookie year. Hopefully some of you will come to understand that it's going to take TIME with Mario. 3 sack games don't come automatically...and in Freeney's rookie season...they don't come at all.

Mario game 1 stats: 3 tackles, 0 sacks.

Freeney's rookie season (2002):

Game 1: 0 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 2: 1 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 3: 2 tackles, 1 sacks (against Houston)
Game 4: 3 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 5: 0 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 6: 1 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 7: 0 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 8: 3 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 9: 4 tackles, 1 sacks (3 forced fumbles)
Game 10: 5 tackles, 2 sacks
Game 11: 0 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 12: 3 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 13: 4 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 14: 9 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 15: 1 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 16: 4 tackles, 2 sacks

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/313800/gamelogs/2002

Patience is key ladies and gentlemen. Good things happen to those who wait. Take Freeney for that example.

gtexan02
09-13-2006, 12:16 AM
Jeez though, 12 sacks in his rookie season is pretty much amazing.

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2006, 12:17 AM
I like my Mario sliced thinly with a side of potatoes au harumph. Good stuff. :mario:

Sco-tai
09-13-2006, 12:19 AM
I owe you a beer.


GREAT post.

And 12 sacks a year. Maybe not for M.W.

But at least it puts it into a current valid example.

Need more....

CORTEZ KENNEDY

F-minus67
09-13-2006, 12:20 AM
Can you really compair Freeney and Mario? I mean Freeney and Mario have to completely different styles. Freeney has insane speed and the best spin move of any player, while Mario seems to have an more well rounded game. But I do see what you are trying to say.

Texizgreat
09-13-2006, 12:22 AM
Look at it this way

Game 1: 0 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 2: 1 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 3: 2 tackles, 1 sacks (against Houston)
Game 4: 3 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 5: 0 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 6: 1 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 7: 0 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 8: 3 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 9: 4 tackles, 1 sacks (3 forced fumbles)
Game 10: 5 tackles, 2 sacks
Game 11: 0 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 12: 3 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 13: 4 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 14: 9 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 15: 1 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 16: 4 tackles, 2 sacks
total 40 Tackles 12 sacks

Mario needs 37 tackles and 12 sacks to catch up

he is ahead of the game in my opinion

can we sticky this so that we have a count down?

phantom17
09-13-2006, 12:23 AM
Great post! I'm so tired of the whinning:crying: that alot of folks here are doin' just bcuz Super Mario didn't get a sack or two! It just takes time for DE & DT to mature, his learning curve still applies! And people pls stop comparing him to Bush or Courtney Brown! :fireball: :cowboy1:

infantrycak
09-13-2006, 12:23 AM
Kubiak is a fool--he should just put Mario in for KR and PR duties and then he will own Bush in the all important total yards category--for instance this last weekend with 5 KR's and 3 PR's he could easily have had 150 yds plus 3 tackles and then ESPN and everyone else could be happy.

gtexan02
09-13-2006, 12:24 AM
Game 1: 1 tackle, 0 sacks
Game 2: 5 tackles, 3 sacks
Game 3: 1 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 4: 3 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 5: 4 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 6: 3 tackles, 3 sacks
Game 7: 3 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 8: 6 tackles, 2 sacks
Game 9: 3 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 10: 2 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 11: 2 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 12: 3tackles, 1 sacks

Here's Peppers rookie season split

RiotCommander
09-13-2006, 12:26 AM
Kubiak is a fool--he should just put Mario in for KR and PR duties and then he will own Bush in the all important total yards category--for instance this last weekend with 5 KR's and 3 PR's he could easily have had 150 yds plus 3 tackles and then ESPN and everyone else could be happy.


He could line up at TE and go both ways. Ok that just sounded wrong. Forget I said it.

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2006, 12:26 AM
Game 1: 1 tackle, 0 sacks
Game 2: 5 tackles, 3 sacks
Game 3: 1 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 4: 3 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 5: 4 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 6: 3 tackles, 3 sacks
Game 7: 3 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 8: 6 tackles, 2 sacks
Game 9: 3 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 10: 2 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 11: 2 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 12: 3tackles, 1 sacks

Here's Peppers rookie season split

Grrrrrrr! Dern you Capers and Casserly. Good reference.

WV-Colt
09-13-2006, 12:29 AM
i really don't think you should compare the two players. they're very different.

but since you are, it should be noted that freeney didn't start until (i believe it was) the 8th game that year.

TEXANS84
09-13-2006, 12:30 AM
Can you really compair Freeney and Mario?

Compare that to Peppers then:

Game 1: 0 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 2: 5 tackles, 3 sacks
Game 3: 1 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 4: 1 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 5: 3 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 6: 3 tackles, 3 sacks
Game 7: 3 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 8: 3 tackles, 2 sacks
Game 9: 2 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 10: 2 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 11: 2 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 12: 3 tackles, 1 sacks

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/302214/gamelogs/2002

Defensive end Julius Peppers and linebacker Dan Morgan missed the final games of the season, but Peppers still registered 12 sacks in 12 games. And like Weaver said in a post-game press conference on 610..."Mario will get his in bursts...thats the way it always works".

**Edit** Gtexan beat me to it, but you still get the point.

run-david-run
09-13-2006, 12:31 AM
Game 1: 1 tackle, 0 sacks
Game 2: 5 tackles, 3 sacks
Game 3: 1 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 4: 3 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 5: 4 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 6: 3 tackles, 3 sacks
Game 7: 3 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 8: 6 tackles, 2 sacks
Game 9: 3 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 10: 2 tackles, 1 sacks
Game 11: 2 tackles, 0 sacks
Game 12: 3tackles, 1 sacks

Here's Peppers rookie season split
He didnt get a sack in 4 of the first 5 games. Remeber, Freeney and Peppers also only have to learn one position, while Mario has been moved around alot. Give it time, he will succeed.

texan279
09-13-2006, 12:33 AM
Freeney also set an NFL rookie record with 9 forced fumbles and was runner up for defensive rookie of the year. Once again, I am not dogging Mario here, but stats do not tell the whole story, and Freeney was drafted 11th overall in the 1st round, not 1st overall. I just think Mario's problem is trying to live up to the expectations that the media has set due to us passing on Bush.

Kaiser Toro
09-13-2006, 12:33 AM
i really don't think you should compare the two players. they're very different.

but since you are, it should be noted that freeney didn't start until (i believe it was) the 8th game that year.

You are right, but there is a civil war going on here, so it must be taken into context - was Mario worth it as #1.

TEXANS84
09-13-2006, 12:34 AM
Freeney also set an NFL rookie record with 9 forced fumbles and was runner up for defensive rookie of the year.

He had 9 forced fumbles in his final 8 games. Unbelieveable.

The Pencil Neck
09-13-2006, 12:38 AM
He had 9 forced fumbles in his final 8 games. Unbelieveable.

If we get performance remotely similar to that, we'll be RAWKIN BAYBEE!!! Hell, just 8 forced fumbles in his final 8 games. I'm easy to please.

kbourda
09-13-2006, 12:39 AM
I want everyone on this MB to find every single stat on every DE that has played the position. Compare daytime stats, nighttime stats, dome stats, or any stat anyone can imagine. Put them on this board and feel good or bad about it. But the only problem with all these stats is that the game is played on the field. Spin it anyway whomever likes, it matters not. I want to see results not some comparisons or stats. Some of you get so worked up by talk or things people write but when you see things with your own eyes, you become pacified by your own beliefs. Sad just sad.

WV-Colt
09-13-2006, 12:40 AM
You are right, but there is a civil war going on here, so it must be taken into context - was Mario worth it as #1.

who's to say. it's obviously waaaaay too early to tell, but i completely understand why the texans took him. the lack of a pass rush has, IMO, kept the texans from winning some games that they were ahead in, and mario has the potential to not only help fix that problem, but he also has a chance of being a michael strahan/john abraham type of every down player.

considering the offensive line woes, i think that makes mario even a better choice. i've seen too many young backs have their careers derailed because they had nobody in front of them.

gtexan02
09-13-2006, 12:43 AM
Not splitting the rest, but here is something really interesting.
Average rookie numbers for all the 1st round DE selections I could find:


2002:
Peppers: 36 tackles, 12 sacks (12 games)
Freeney: 40 tackles, 12 sacks
Thomas: 9 tackles, 1 sack
Grant: 37 tackles, 7 sacks

2003:
Suggs: 27 tackles, 12 sacks
Warren: 33 tackles, 1 sack
Haynes: 22 tackles, 2 sacks
McDougal: 9 tackles, 0 sacks
Pace: 32 tackles, 1 sack

2004:
Smith: 42 tackles, 8 sacks
Udeze: 36 tackles, 5 sacks

2005:
James: 28 tackles, 4 sacks
Spears: 31 tackles, 2 sacks
Merriman: 54 tackles, 10 sacks (15 games)

Average #sacks of a 1st round selected DE in the past 4 years is 5.5

Other:
Rice: 52 tackles, 13 sacks
Abraham: 12 tackles, 5 sacks (only 6 games). When he played his first full season, 67 tackles, 13 sacks

I don't want to post anymore as its late. But you get the idea. The great ones all had rookie season with 10+ sacks. Lets hope Williams does the same

kbourda
09-13-2006, 12:47 AM
was Mario worth it as #1.

Hey, who knows. But for the sake of the team I hope he will be worth it.

Brandon420tx
09-13-2006, 12:48 AM
Merriman was moved to linebacker in a Blitzing 3-4 D... (Damn prevent 3-4 D we ran:brickwall ) But I get what your saying.

RiotCommander
09-13-2006, 12:54 AM
There is not one player in that list that Mario plays like. So I have asked myself who does he remind me of and its Michael Strahan. He is about the same size but a little taller, and he moves a lot like him. I just hope he gets off to a faster start then Strahan had because he will be in for a long ride if he doesn't.

gtexan02
09-13-2006, 12:55 AM
List revised. I kept Merriman because he is listed as "DE" on his player card. i didn't put Castillo or Ware because they are DT/OLB rerspectively

gtexan02
09-13-2006, 12:57 AM
I didn't include Strahan since he wasnt a 1st round selection, but I would love Strahan type productivity from Williams, even if I had to wait a year

run-david-run
09-13-2006, 12:57 AM
There is not one player in that list that Mario plays like. So I have asked myself who does he remind me of and its Michael Strahan. He is about the same size but a little taller, and he moves a lot like him. I just hope he gets off to a faster start then Strahan had because he will be in for a long ride if he doesn't.
I was acctually thinking the same thing. Great against the run, big guy that can move, could it be?

DeclanJr
09-13-2006, 04:40 AM
He is a huge guy, and it just seems like there is going to be a learning curve. From what I saw on Sunday, he just got himself tied up with blockers, whether it was 1, 2 or 3. I trust the coaching staff we have in place to work with him and utilize his skills. For all we know the coaching staff could be asking him to play on the line as more of a run defender and less of a pass rusher. That doesn't make too much sense against a pass-first team like the Eagles, but I'm just trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.

nunusguy
09-13-2006, 08:12 AM
Good thread 84 ! This is something we can use throughout the season to
audit Mario's progress and compare him to other young D players in their rookie years.
And the comparison to the Freeneys is perfectly reasonable, even though disparities in "style" may exist. Afterall, RBs performance is measured statistically against their peers based on such things as yards rushed and TDs scored, even though their comparitive running styles, skill sets, and even actual physical atrributes might vary widely e.g., Barry Sanders vs Earl Campbell or Tike Barber vs. Jamail Lewis.

HomeBred_Texan
09-13-2006, 10:12 AM
Let it also be known that Mario has not pooted once on the field and Freeney pooted twice his first game. I got that for the tackle (trying) to contain him. LOL :hunter:

Napa Auto Parts
09-13-2006, 11:19 PM
WE could of had Peppers that is what pisses me of more as fan we could of had Peppers how Great would that be J. Peppers instead we got well it doesnt even matter to bad we dont have a time machine.:hides:

Insideop
09-14-2006, 12:16 AM
WE could of had Peppers that is what pisses me of more as fan we could of had Peppers how Great would that be J. Peppers instead we got well it doesnt even matter to bad we dont have a time machine.:hides:


That's right! We don't have a time machine! The past is the past and we cannot change it. So, take a deep breath and just keep repeating, we don't have a time machine, we don't have a time machine......

It may not make you feel any better, but who knows, you might wake up in the morning and find out the Texans have traded MW for Peppers, or Carr for Brady, or Morency for Gado, or, oh wait a minute......:shades: