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View Full Version : Harrington not in DC's league


Sudds
09-19-2004, 05:08 PM
In my opinion, it is very clear who the better QB is. Carr started very slow, but picked it up greatly in the 2nd quarter on. Harrington's arm is much weaker than I thought and I continue to see him benefiting from the amazing catches of his receivers. He is not very accurate and likes to throw the ball to guys who are covered thoroughly.

You look at the numbers and they show you who won the battle of the QB's. Turnovers and defense cost us this game. Its a simple diagnosis that is very clear. Carr moved the ball at will, but when you turn it over week after week, you will lose to everyone. DD better pick it up becuase IMO he's a big reason why we are 0-2 right now.

WHERE'S THE PASS DEFENSE? 28 points to Detroit is rediculous.

nunusguy
09-19-2004, 05:08 PM
Harrington is a scrappy QB, and he made a real good throw to Williams for
the TD (Williams, though, made a super play - he is good), and did some scrambling, but he's not in the same category as Carr. He can only dream about the gun that Carr has. Carr made a play (the checkoff and then TD to Bradford), that only people like Farve and Elway make.

Ihategeeks
09-19-2004, 05:11 PM
I'll take the guy who has thrown More TD's
Won More Games

Won that game

Anyday (while I wish to myself , why can't Joey throw harder)

Hervoyel
09-19-2004, 05:12 PM
I'd say almost the reverse. Harrington appeared to me to be the better QB today. Possibly in the long run that may change but Harrington is IMO ahead of Carr at this time.

LionsAllTheWay
09-19-2004, 05:15 PM
I said it before, I'll say it again. If Carr had Harrington's pass protection (O_line), he'd be a lot farther along. Joey looked great today.

TexansFight
09-19-2004, 05:19 PM
Harrington already has 5 come from behind victories in the 4th quarter. Carr seems to save the worst for the 4th quarter though today after the 1st half he was good.

Fiddy
09-19-2004, 05:20 PM
I care about wins and only wins. Harrington is 2-0 and Carr is 0-2 this season. I'd pick Harrington today....

edo783
09-19-2004, 05:21 PM
DD turns it over 4 times in 2 games. Teams scored off of each turnover. Yup, he has to bear a great deal of the responsibility for both losses. Not all, but a great deal of it. The Defense probably bears MOST of the rest of the blame.

Lucky
09-19-2004, 05:22 PM
I'd say almost the reverse. Harrington appeared to me to be the better QB today.
He's certainly in a better offense. Up 5 with 12 minutes left in the game, the Lions call 8 pass plays on a 12 play TD drive. That's how you cut the heart out of an opponent. That's how you win a football game.

HoustonLionsFan
09-19-2004, 05:23 PM
Let's put this to rest, Joey had 114+ passer rating today. What did Carr have? (I really don't know, I'm asking). Don't forget, the "#1" WR for the Lions was out.

Today, Joey was better. Let's leave it at that. No, But he was in bounds, but RW made that play, etc...The game was what it was, admit the defeat and let it go.

LionsAllTheWay
09-19-2004, 05:24 PM
Carr's was 103, also very good.

JDizzle
09-19-2004, 05:32 PM
I said it before, I'll say it again. If Carr had Harrington's pass protection (O_line), he'd be a lot farther along. Joey looked great today.

You beat me to it. I think Carr did great considering he was constantly being pressured. But Harrington's last drive was the nail in the coffin. Up until that point he had a below average performance, but that drive was crucial to their victory and he stepped up. I'm sure I'm not the only one who prefers victories to more yardage and ratings.

nunusguy
09-19-2004, 06:05 PM
Let's put this to rest, Joey had 114+ passer rating today. What did Carr have? (I really don't know, I'm asking). Don't forget, the "#1" WR for the Lions was out.

Today, Joey was better. Let's leave it at that. No, But he was in bounds, but RW made that play, etc...The game was what it was, admit the defeat and let it go.
I'll say it again, Harrington is not in Carr's league and thats so because he doesn't have half the arm that Carr has. But on the subject of the better team, the Lions won today and deserved to win and I hereby accept the defeat. And I do wish the Lions good luck this season. I wish we had those
big downline they've got along with quite a few other players on their team -
like the kick returner.

Ihategeeks
09-19-2004, 06:30 PM
Carr Checked down to Dominick Davis 11 times

Joey completed a pass to 9 different recievers.

Joey was working with a Rookie WR
A Rookie RB, and a Solid Oline in the WCO offense, and lost his Go to WR the previous week. Joey has had 1 coaching change since being in Detroit, and major offensive injuries every year


Carr was working with a 1000 yard WR, a 1000 yard RB in a less complex offense, behind a below average oline. Carr has had 0 coaching changes with the core of starters each year.

Carr came up with some big plays

Joey matched it, and clinched the game.


But, yeah, Carr throws hard, So does Jeff George

TexanBacker93
09-19-2004, 06:40 PM
Carr Checked down to Dominick Davis 11 times

Joey completed a pass to 9 different recievers.

Joey was working with a Rookie WR
A Rookie RB, and a Solid Oline in the WCO offense, and lost his Go to WR the previous week.



I wouldn't consider Rogers a go to receiver. I think you have to earn that distinction and he hasn't done that yet. Streets and Az-Hakim are great fits and more than make up for Rogers in the short term.

Vinny
09-19-2004, 06:41 PM
I wouldn't consider Rogers a go to receiver. I think you have to earn that distinction and he hasn't done that yet. Streets and Az-Hakim are great fits and more than make up for Rogers in the short term.Rogers was lights-out for an incredible strech last year. He is clearly the Lions "go-to" WR

Ihategeeks
09-19-2004, 06:49 PM
I wouldn't consider Rogers a go to receiver. I think you have to earn that distinction and he hasn't done that yet. Streets and Az-Hakim are great fits and more than make up for Rogers in the short term.

Rogers was Joey's go to WR, this was clear in the 5 reg season games, and any time durring preseason.

Ihategeeks
09-19-2004, 06:50 PM
Natraully, none of this matters, because football is the ultimate team game :yap

LuvYaTexans
09-19-2004, 08:38 PM
Come on ya'll, is Carr suppose to run along side of DD and make sure he doesn't drop the ball inside the RED ZONE...AGAIN? Or is he suppose to play on special teams and make sure they stop the 99 YARD RETURN>>> This can get ridiculous...he is leading the NFL this weekend in passing yards (312), had 2(up the field) TD's & yes 1Int. He finished with a 109% passing rating and OH lets dump on the guy after he ran for his life MOST all day! Did you happen to notice how many times he picked himself up off the grass?? Or how many times he was flushed out of the pocket and survived. Zack W. got burned more times than our defense. Do any of you watch the game or just look at ESPN after the game for the recap? NEITHER QB could get in a rhythm, until they made adjustments at half. They are both talented QB's, but my money is on CARR (that's my right) and all of you naysayers can just sit by, complain to your hearts content and watch him become what Mr. McNair saw and believed in when he drafted him. We'll check back down the road and see if you all are still here, or gone on to dish out vile on someone else. Yes I'd prefer a WIN as well, won't settle for nothing less, but put the blame where it belongs and not on one man's shoulders. It's called a TEAM effort, you win as a team and you loose as a team. The Lion's did a nice job and deserve the credit for the win as well, nothing more, nothing less. GO TEXAN'S!! :boxing:

wags
09-19-2004, 08:46 PM
To say either Joey or DC is better right now is pointless. They are both so young and have a decade left in their careers. Let's just agree that as of right now, neither one is Brett Favre.

Fiddy
09-19-2004, 08:47 PM
To say either Joey or DC is better right now is pointless. They are both so young and have a decade left in their careers. Let's just agree that as of right now, neither one is Brett Favre.I can agree to that...

Ihategeeks
09-19-2004, 08:50 PM
Dear WINTEXANSWIN,

The reason for that statement was not how Rogers is any better than Johnson, but that Rogers was the best offensive player for the lions and the #1 WR, I don't remeber Johnson even being mentioned.

Why you felt the need to go off on this obsessive tagent, who knows. But to argue Rogers wasn't the Lions #1 WR , is misinformed.

To drag it out needlessly and turn it into something else.

Classless :rofl:

HoustonLionsFan
09-19-2004, 09:09 PM
I can agree to that...

As can I...

Ihategeeks
09-19-2004, 09:42 PM
YOU speak of classless? Wow, this is truly amazing.

Simply pointing out that Rogers stats were not "lights out." The best way to illustrate this was to compare his numbers to another rookie's. Why is this a problem for you?

Rogers was lights out for the Detroit Offense
And the best way to illustrate things of this nature is to see for yourself. Problem for me? Not really, I just found your attemp at baiting amusing and sad. I don't gather it is posing me a problem whatsoever.

Get the BEAM out of your own eye and then you can see clearly to pull the splinters out of others eyes.

HoustonLionsFan
09-19-2004, 09:51 PM
WINTEXANSWIN- WOW, I think you may be the angriest holy roller I've ever seen. I think you are just angry about a loss today and are taking it out on others. Which, by the way, you haven't congratulated the Lions yet.

TexansTrueFan
09-19-2004, 11:10 PM
Carr Checked down to Dominick Davis 11 times

Joey completed a pass to 9 different recievers.

Joey was working with a Rookie WR
A Rookie RB, and a Solid Oline in the WCO offense, and lost his Go to WR the previous week. Joey has had 1 coaching change since being in Detroit, and major offensive injuries every year


Carr was working with a 1000 yard WR, a 1000 yard RB in a less complex offense, behind a below average oline. Carr has had 0 coaching changes with the core of starters each year.

Carr came up with some big plays



Joey matched it, and clinched the game.


But, yeah, Carr throws hard, So does Jeff George


Maybe thats the problem ,,,"we havent had a coaching change" !!!!

Ihategeeks
09-19-2004, 11:11 PM
Maybe thats the problem ,,,"we havent had a coaching change" !!!!

You should work on that , I hear Rommeo Crennell is looking for work

If you can get Charlie Wies too, well, thats a coup.

jacquescas
09-19-2004, 11:12 PM
were people expecting the playoffs this season? i mean come on...

Huge
09-20-2004, 06:51 AM
If the topic is "better arm strength"...then you'd have a point that Carr is better than Harrington.

But since when does having the better arm translate into being the better QB?

nunusguy
09-20-2004, 11:47 AM
But since when does having the better arm translate into being the better QB?
Since the dawn of man, if you were to look at the single most important skill in QBs. Do you think Elway, Marino, Aikman, etc. were great because they were
good at handing the ball off to RBs ?

Ihategeeks
09-20-2004, 11:51 AM
Since the dawn of man, if you were to look at the single most important skill in QBs. Do you think Elway, Marino, Aikman, etc. were great because they were
good at handing the ball off to RBs ?

Montana didn't have a strong arm

Roar32
09-20-2004, 01:33 PM
1 Daunte Culpepper MIN 242 23 17 5 0 63 147.1
2 Donovan McNabb PHI 330 36 26 4 0 53 137.5
3 Chad Pennington NYJ 482 56 42 4 0 48 124.3
4 Peyton Manning IND 510 62 40 4 1 64 104.9
5 Tom Brady NE 552 64 41 5 3 29 97.9
6 Michael Vick ATL 342 41 27 2 1 62 97.8
7 Marc Bulger STL 557 65 47 2 2 36 95.5
8 Aaron Brooks NO 502 71 43 4 1 45 94.9
9 Joey Harrington DET 363 51 32 4 2 34 93.8
10 David Carr HOU 542 59 42 2 3 54 89.8
11 Kurt Warner NYG 435 61 38 1 0 43 89.2
12 Rich Gannon OAK 514 64 39 3 2 58 88.9
13 Drew Brees SD 355 43 25 3 2 59 88.8
14 Drew Bledsoe BUF 351 50 30 2 1 65 86.3
15 Jake Delhomme CAR 464 68 39 5 3 34 84.4
16 Tim Rattay SF 175 31 18 2 1 17 82.1
17 Steve McNair TEN 346 53 34 1 1 33 81.2
18 Vinny Testaverde DAL 677 85 52 2 3 37 79.4
19 Jake Plummer DEN 480 68 41 2 2 58 79.3
20 Brett Favre GB 395 64 39 2 2 44 76.0
21 Matt Hasselbeck SEA 393 55 31 2 2 38 75.8
22 Carson Palmer CIN 395 65 39 2 2 53 74.8
23 Ken Dorsey SF 316 47 27 0 1 37 69.1
24 Tommy Maddox PIT 209 35 17 0 0 39 67.4
25 Mark Brunell WAS 217 42 23 1 1 27 67.3
26 A.J. Feeley MIA 386 70 42 2 3 37 66.7
27 Chris Simms TB 175 32 21 0 1 35 66.5
28 Byron Leftwich JAC 267 52 26 2 2 45 61.9
29 Josh McCown ARI 341 58 31 0 2 42 56.8
30 Kyle Boller BAL 289 56 32 0 2 24 56.3


Their both pretty even still, Joey's getting wins though,

advantage Harrington

nunusguy
09-20-2004, 07:49 PM
Montana didn't have a strong arm
I never put Montana in the "great QB" category along with the likes of Elway
and Morino and others, in spite all the ink the West Coast pundits used to
write about Montana. Why ? Repeat after me as you said: "didn't have a strong arm". You have to have the arm strength
to have the chance to be a great passer. And if you're not a great passer well you can't be a great QB; like a Tailback or Halfback can't be great unless he's a great runner.What Montana did have was great
teammates and therefor great teams that he played with at SF.
It has always annoyed me that Montana is ranked ahead of Elway by some so called experts.

Huge
09-20-2004, 08:15 PM
Since the dawn of man, if you were to look at the single most important skill in QBs. Do you think Elway, Marino, Aikman, etc. were great because they were
good at handing the ball off to RBs ?


Elway didn't so squat until he was given a running game and was put into a west coast offense surrounded by similar talent that Montana had (BTW, Montan won a Super Bowl before Jerry Rice came along).

Do you realize that of Elway's 300 career TDs 101 of them came in the last four years of his career? Do you think it's a coicidence that this was the same time period that Mike Shanahan brought in the west coast offense (same as what Montana made his success on) as well as a dependable running game?

Marino was never known for having a cannon. His ability to read blitzes and having a quick release was his forte.

Aikman never had a cannon either. His accuracy was what set him apart from above average QBs.


I never put Montana in the "great QB" category along with the likes of Elway
and Morino and others, in spite all the ink the West Coast pundits used to
write about Montana. Why ? Repeat after me as you said: "didn't have a strong arm". You have to have the arm strength
to have the chance to be a great passer. And if you're not a great passer well you can't be a great QB; like a Tailback or Halfback can't be great unless he's a great runner.What Montana did have was great
teammates and therefor great teams that he played with at SF.
It has always annoyed me that Montana is ranked ahead of Elway by some so called experts.


You should've stopped after "I never put Montana in the "great QB" category".

Roger Staubach - Did not have a cannon.
Fran Tarkenton - Did not have a cannon.
Bart Starr - Nope.
Bob Griese - Nope.

All four are in the Hall of Fame.

Top QBs of today...

Peyton Manning (Co-MVP) - Nope.
Steve McNair (other Co-MVP) - Nope.
Chad Pennington - Nah.

Does it help to have a really strong arm? Sure. Is it required? As long as you can make all the throws (every starting NFL QB can), absolutely not.

Ihategeeks
09-20-2004, 08:18 PM
I never put Montana in the "great QB" category along with the likes of Elway
and Morino and others, in spite all the ink the West Coast pundits used to
write about Montana. Why ? Repeat after me as you said: "didn't have a strong arm". You have to have the arm strength
to have the chance to be a great passer. And if you're not a great passer well you can't be a great QB; like a Tailback or Halfback can't be great unless he's a great runner.What Montana did have was great
teammates and therefor great teams that he played with at SF.
It has always annoyed me that Montana is ranked ahead of Elway by some so called experts.

Well you better tell Chad Pennington and Tom Brady to stop playing, since they are only setting themselves up for disapointment
:thumbdown
Don't take this the wrong way, I am honestly concerned for your well being.

Have you ever suffered major head injury in your life time? There is a hospital here that has a great rehabilitation center.

Jwwillis
09-20-2004, 08:20 PM
Pastorini could throw 100yrs flat footed. You will never see him in the Hall of Fame. BTW he also had one of the greatest backs ever in Earl Campbell to hand off to. Bottom line is you gotta win baby.

nunusguy
09-20-2004, 09:09 PM
Huge, let me give you credit, you know you're QBs. I'd almost forgot about the likes of Tarkenton, Griese, and others you named. Nevertheless, I wouldn't rate these guys as great. Successful, winners, leaders - yes. Gifted,
extrodinarily talented and amoung the best ever - no. Regarding contempory
QBs still active - Farve for sure. Beyond that I don't know. Many are headed that way - Manning is obvious and he is a tremendous passer and I would have to say he has very superior arm stregth. McNair, certainly Pennington, little early to confer greatness on those guys ?
HOF membership automatically mean greatness - I don't think. Much of the
HOF is politics. From your blue star logo, I'd say you're a Cowboys fan ?
(I'm not myself). But I'm sure you know that, alledgedly, politics has "kept out" a lot of Cowboys from HOF membership.
Re. Elway, he was the greatest, bar none (really, I'm not from Denver). He was the consummate playmaker, running and especially passing. I'm sure
you know(from your obvious knowlege of QBs), he took mediorce teams to SBs because he was a great QB. And when he had really talented teammates,
"they" won SBs.

Ihategeeks
09-20-2004, 09:27 PM
Huge, let me give you credit, you know you're QBs. I'd almost forgot about the likes of Tarkenton, Griese, and others you named. Nevertheless, I wouldn't rate these guys as great. Successful, winners, leaders - yes. Gifted,
extrodinarily talented and amoung the best ever - no. Regarding contempory
QBs still active - Farve for sure. Beyond that I don't know. Many are headed that way - Manning is obvious and he is a tremendous passer and I would have to say he has very superior arm stregth. McNair, certainly Pennington, little early to confer greatness on those guys ?
HOF membership automatically mean greatness - I don't think. Much of the
HOF is politics. From your blue star logo, I'd say you're a Cowboys fan ?
(I'm not myself). But I'm sure you know that, alledgedly, politics has "kept out" a lot of Cowboys from HOF membership.
Re. Elway, he was the greatest, bar none (really, I'm not from Denver). He was the consummate playmaker, running and especially passing. I'm sure
you know(from your obvious knowlege of QBs), he took mediorce teams to SBs because he was a great QB. And when he had really talented teammates,
"they" won SBs.


Elway didn't win games because he threw hard....

Huge
09-20-2004, 09:50 PM
Huge, let me give you credit, you know you're QBs. I'd almost forgot about the likes of Tarkenton, Griese, and others you named. Nevertheless, I wouldn't rate these guys as great. Successful, winners, leaders - yes. Gifted,
extrodinarily talented and amoung the best ever - no. Regarding contempory

At one point in time, Fran Tarkenton held the NFL records for passing yards, passing TDs and rushing yards by a QB. Tell me again how he wasn't gifted.

Bob Griese passed for over 25,000 yards in his career while playing on a team that emphasized the run. You don't put up those numbers by being average.

Regarding contempory QBs still active - Farve for sure. Beyond that I don't know. Many are headed that way - Manning is obvious and he is a tremendous passer and I would have to say he has very superior arm stregth. McNair, certainly Pennington, little early to confer greatness on those guys?

I didn't say the current QBs belong in the "great" category. I was pointing out that many of the better QBs (as well as the current MVPs) in the league today do not have big arms.

When the Colts had to make a decision between Manning and Leaf, Manning's lack of a big arm was one of the reasons they were struggling with their decision. No matter how you spin this one...Manning does not have a big arm. Above average? Yes. But he'll never be confused with Jeff George (one of the best arms in the last 20 years).

HOF membership automatically mean greatness - I don't think. Much of the
HOF is politics. From your blue star logo, I'd say you're a Cowboys fan? I'm not myself. But I'm sure you know that, alledgedly, politics has "kept out" a lot of Cowboys from HOF membership.

As a Cowboys fan, I completely agree that much of the Hall of Fame is based on politics (14 other teams have more members than Dallas). But the guys I listed can back it up with wins and/or stats.

Re. Elway, he was the greatest, bar none (really, I'm not from Denver). He was the consummate playmaker, running and especially passing. I'm sure you know (from your obvious knowlege of QBs), he took mediorce teams to SBs because he was a great QB. And when he had really talented teammates, "they" won SBs.

I wouldn't have any problem with a list that has Elway ranked at the top for Best QBs of All-Time. I would even take your side in this debate. My argument wouldn't be based on arm strength, but I'd lend an argument or two. But Elway's greatness doesn't diminish Montana's.

To say Montana was not a great QB is just not a bright statement. He's easily in the top 5 (if not top 3) ever.

DomDavis
09-20-2004, 10:46 PM
So the QB with the most wins is better? That's interesting... does that mean that Byron Leftwich is better than Peyton Manning?

Harrington had a higher rating, but can we please be real when we analyze it? Football games are won and lost by teams, not one player behind center. Comparing individuals through team success just isn't smart. Is Trent Dilfer a better quarterback than Peyton Manning, Daunte Culpepper, Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb and others because he won a Super Bowl? Or is he simply a product of having the right players around him?

Also, remember when you look at Harrington's numbers Sunday that he really had one more interception than the numbers show. It was taken back because of a horrid roughing the passer call, but it did not impact his decision and should be a factor when you analyze how the two played.

TexansTrueFan
09-20-2004, 10:56 PM
So the QB with the most wins is better? That's interesting... does that mean that Byron Leftwich is better than Peyton Manning?

Harrington had a higher rating, but can we please be real when we analyze it? Football games are won and lost by teams, not one player behind center. Comparing individuals through team success just isn't smart. Is Trent Dilfer a better quarterback than Peyton Manning, Daunte Culpepper, Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb and others because he won a Super Bowl? Or is he simply a product of having the right players around him?

Also, remember when you look at Harrington's numbers Sunday that he really had one more interception than the numbers show. It was taken back because of a horrid roughing the passer call, but it did not impact his decision and should be a factor when you analyze how the two played.


VERY good point man i agree with all lol: he said !!!!!!!!!!!!

Ihategeeks
09-20-2004, 11:27 PM
So the QB with the most wins is better? That's interesting... does that mean that Byron Leftwich is better than Peyton Manning?

Harrington had a higher rating, but can we please be real when we analyze it? Football games are won and lost by teams, not one player behind center. Comparing individuals through team success just isn't smart. Is Trent Dilfer a better quarterback than Peyton Manning, Daunte Culpepper, Michael Vick, Donovan McNabb and others because he won a Super Bowl? Or is he simply a product of having the right players around him?

Also, remember when you look at Harrington's numbers Sunday that he really had one more interception than the numbers show. It was taken back because of a horrid roughing the passer call, but it did not impact his decision and should be a factor when you analyze how the two played.

First, Harrington not only had a Higher Rating, he kept his team in the game at critical times. And his team won.

Wins - Harrington
Statistic - Harrington

Next, the INT Joey Did throw was the fault of Roy Williams, after the game Roy admitted he ran his route incorrectly. Your correct it is a team sport

But, none of that matters, as you stated.

Here is what does matter-

In that game, both QB's had a shakey start, but the second half in the crucial moments Joey was clutch. Carr however, was making poor decision.

That's what matters, and Joey won in that respect. Does that make one better than the other? For 1 game, yes, Joey was better than Carr.

1 game isn't the end of it though.



As far as the Thread title, Harrington ins't in David Carr's league.

Well, I have to disagree, they both play in the NFL.
(And Joey is playing Better)
:boxing:

But, it's a team sport, so not a damn bit of this matters right?
I keep forgetting that QB's play a very small role on the team
idonno:

It's a team sport

And one team lost it's best Offensive and Defensive Player before the game.
It's a team Sport and Joey Dished the ball out to 9 different players

While Carr can't spell progression.

It's a team sport where Harrington and his teamates run the complex WCO and looks like he has the hang of it.

It's a team sport where David Carr still isn't getting the hang of his simplified offense.

It's a team sport that has no perfect plays.
Good Players compensate for the chaos on the football field with good reactions.

On that day, Carr wasn't as good of a player as Joey. If they are still in different leagues. I don't think many people would have opted for DC's league that day.

utahmark
09-20-2004, 11:40 PM
carr is getting a lot more pressure than harrington. and putting up similar numbers.

as far as who won the game. that kick off had a lot to do with it and your defense is playing better than ours. we couldnt stop drew breise and the sd chargers.

the only way to know for sure who is better is for them to switch teams and see what they do.

Ihategeeks
09-20-2004, 11:46 PM
carr is getting a lot more pressure than harrington. and putting up similar numbers.

as far as who won the game. that kick off had a lot to do with it and your defense is playing better than ours. we couldnt stop drew breise and the sd chargers.

the only way to know for sure who is better is for them to switch teams and see what they do.

Harrington was getting pressure too, so I am not going to buy that excuse. Alot of the Lions Pressure was at the very end of the game when the D had it's ears pinned back rushing the passer every down. The game was already over then.


Both Qb's were having problems with pressure.

And If you put David Carr in the WCO right now, he'll **** his pants. He keys on his WR's, He doesn't look through his reads, he has little to no pocket presence.


As far as the Texans not stoping Drew Bress, every dog has his day, as you noticed, David Carr had a pretty good Day vs the Lions D.

As much as the media has been on Carr's Jock I was expecting to be wowed by his talent. I saw nothing impressive from David.

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 12:39 AM
You are the only one who would have selected Harrington.

Would Have?

I did , and he outplayed Carr. The Lions won, all is right in my tiny minority

Blessed are they that have not seen and yet have believed.

wesleysh21
09-21-2004, 12:58 AM
I can't believe this conversation is being had. Carr is better because he has a stronger arm? You can only be a great QB if you have great arm strength? Wow, just wow. As far as it being a team game, that is very true. Which is why when John Elway was playing like ****, his team was still winning on the strength of its defense. And yes, there is a reason why Elway's numbers never matched his hype nor did his trophy case until he got Terrell Davis. Funny enough, go back to the Super Bowl where Montana's team crushed Elways 55-10, and you'll see one of the biggest problems for Elway was...he was throwing the ball too hard...his receivers couldn't hang on to the darts. idonno: What Bill Walsh loved about Joe Montana was he threw a very catchable ball. Gee, go figure.

Does Joey Harrington really have better protection than David Carr? I think its a marriage more than anything. If you've ever seen Mike McMahon in the game for us you'd see the protection they provide doesn't work for everyone. Its the way that the line protects, and the way that Joey moves in the pocket that makes his sack totals so low (on top of a quick release and a willingness to throw the ball away instead of force passes late). The simple truth is that Joey flat puts the ball in the endzone more than David, and has been doing that with much lesser weapons until this season, and now most would call it a push at best as of right now. Did you notice that Joey threw 3 touchdown passes in that game? When was the last time David did that?

Vinny
09-21-2004, 01:14 AM
Did you notice that Joey threw 3 touchdown passes in that game? When was the last time David did that?Unless I am mistaken Carr has never thrown 3 TD's in a game here. We have never scored 30 points either.

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 01:31 AM
Harrington was getting pressure too, so I am not going to buy that excuse.

Just because you say harrington was getting pressure doesnt make it true. Our Defense couldnt beat a high school offensive line right now,(espeicialy on third down) wich is really starting to make me sick. He had all day to throw all day long.

Both Qb's were having problems with pressure.

Considering the amount of pressure David was dealing with he did a great job and I was very pleased.

And If you put David Carr in the WCO right now, he'll **** his pants.

If David was put in a offense the took advantage of his skills and let him pass the ball it would be you pissing in your pants.

He keys on his WR's, He doesn't look through his reads, he has little to no pocket presence.

That is one of the things that surprised me the most so far about David this year is he has greatly improved his pocket presence. he audibles at the line now and usually burns the defense pretty big when he does so and just because David didnt pass to 9 different recievers doesnt mean he doesnt look through his reads. He doesnt play in the wco and will rarely ever have a 9 reciever reception game. Maybe you just had trouble seeing the pocket presence because David hardly ever had a pocket to throw in. In Joey's and Carr's careers so far thier numbers are pretty similar, except for the fact that Carr has been sacked like a hundred more times than Joey. If the roles were reversed your qb would be also be pissing in his pants and probally would already be out of the league, considered a bust, which half of the fans on your message board are already questioning even after the two wins. Think about it your qb put up the same numbers behind a great offensive line of a qb that spent most of his time running for his life. You better hope that oline doesnt ever get shakey.

David Carr had a pretty good Day vs the Lions D.

As much as the media has been on Carr's Jock I was expecting to be wowed by his talent. I saw nothing impressive from David.

lol: sounds like a flip flop to me kinda contradicted yourself didnt ya
If David played so crapy and still put up over 300 yards against yall, you better watch out cause yalls schedule just got a lot harder and their qbs could pass for over 500.

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 01:42 AM
lol: sounds like a flip flop to me kinda contradicted yourself didnt ya
If David played so crapy and still put up over 300 yards against yall, you better watch out cause yalls schedule just got a lot harder and their qbs could pass for over 500.

No i didn't contradict myself
Let me bring you up to speed-


Carr didn't play terrible. But to say he played better than Harrington (or better than Harrington to the degree that he is on some seperate level) Is stupidity.

Lets not get it confused. I don't like Carr, I don't think he is a good QB, but, as I said, Every dog has his day. Despite his flawed footwork, decision making, and understanding of his offense. He still managed to put up some garbage stats.

Oh, and QB's often put up lots of yardage when playing from behind
:rofl:

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 01:59 AM
That is one of the things that surprised me the most so far about David this year is he has greatly improved his pocket presence. he audibles at the line now and usually burns the defense pretty big when he does so and just because David didnt pass to 9 different recievers doesnt mean he doesnt look through his reads. He doesnt play in the wco and will rarely ever have a 9 reciever reception game. Maybe you just had trouble seeing the pocket presence because David hardly ever had a pocket to throw in. In Joey's and Carr's careers so far thier numbers are pretty similar, except for the fact that Carr has been sacked like a hundred more times than Joey. If the roles were reversed your qb would be also be pissing in his pants and probally would already be out of the league, considered a bust, which half of the fans on your message board are already questioning even after the two wins. Think about it your qb put up the same numbers behind a great offensive line of a qb that spent most of his time running for his life. You better hope that oline doesnt ever get shakey.

-Maybe he improved it from worst to bad, but it looked pretty terrible from this side of the fence

-No he doesn't

- when you throw to your RB 11 times in an offense not geared towards throwing to RB's 11 times, THAT means you don't go through your reads. When you lock down on 1 WR, that means you don't go through your reads. How bout you go watch the game again.

- No It's clear david doesn't have the mental capcity to handle the offense he currently opperates, it's a blessing he isn't in a WCO. As for pocket presence, watch his feet.

- The fans on MY message board question everything that every player does
James hall leads the NFL in sacks, people complain he is a disapointment. Bracey Walk recovers a Fumble, and returnes a FG block for TD last week, and they rip on him 8 ways from sunday. Lions fans do not embrace any QB even if he has a great game. Lions fans Boo the **** out of it's own team more than the opposing team. LIONS FANS HATE BARRY SANDERS!!!! :rofl: We are a negative bunch, years of losing have created a very low tollerance for ANY mistakes even after a win. Those crazy people you hear on the radio complaining after a win...thats every lions fan.

- Joey would love to be in Carr's position, Carr gets free passes from the fans, Carr didn't have Marty Morniweigh as coach, Carr is running a simple offense, Carr hasn't had to deal with the most dropped balls in the NFL and Injuries to any talented starter on offense, Carr had a running game last year, Carr never had to throw to Bill Scheorder and a TE playing WR due to injuries. Heck, Carr has it pretty good.



- Let me clue you in about the lions oline, it's full of average technicians, thats it. Joey is constantly getting rid of the ball, and is exceptional moving in the pocket. He gets rid of the ball insted of taking sacks. Not because the Oline is great.


You don't even know about your own QB, yet your the authority on Joey Harrington now?

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 02:06 AM
No i didn't contradict myself
Let me bring you up to speed-


Carr didn't play terrible. But to say he played better than Harrington (or better than Harrington to the degree that he is on some seperate level) Is stupidity.

Lets not get it confused. I don't like Carr, I don't think he is a good QB, but, as I said, Every dog has his day. Despite his flawed footwork, decision making, and understanding of his offense. He still managed to put up some garbage stats.

Oh, and QB's often put up lots of yardage when playing from behind
:rofl:

:crazy: again just because you say it doesnt make it true If I were you I really wouldnt talk about flawed foot work the big knock on your qb is that he gets happy feet and throws the ball away or up for grabs. Which we did quite a few times, against a good caliber defense he would of had more INT.
David uderstands his offense really well he knows that he has to take the snap and then hand it off. The difference is when DD fumbles and the Defense is strugleing it makes David have to carry his team and The detroit lions carried your qb, be it wrs plucking floaters out of the sky that should of been picked off.

To say Joey is a better Qb than David is absurd If they were both on the market right now David would be selected first again.

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 02:09 AM
:crazy: again just because you say it doesnt make it true If I were you I really wouldnt talk about flawed foot work the big knock on your qb is that he gets happy feet and throws the ball away or up for grabs. Wich we did quite a few times, against a good caliber defense he would of had more INT.
David uderstands his offense really well he knows that he has to take the snap and then hand it off. The difference is when DD if fumble and the Defensed strugleing it makes David have to carry his team and The detroit lions carried your qb, be it wrs plucking floaters out of the sky that should of been picked off.

To say Joey is a better Qb than David is absurd If they were both on the market right now David would be selected first again.

- It's a team sport -
So when things go wrong for the Texans it's the Texans fault, not Carr, and when things Go Right for Joey, it's because of the wonderful supporting cast?

That, is a contradiction, and that, would make you a hypocrite. ^_-


Your right about one thing "just because I say it's true doesn't make it true."
BUT, just because your blind to the obvious doesn't mean I'm wrong either.

In any event, Carr is your boy, and the only show in town, I admire your support of your QB, it's heartwarming. But I know in 15 weeks , you'll either be making excuses, or seeing the same things I saw from just 1 game.

And just so no one gets confused
(If Harrington isn't in the same League, your right, Carr's league is the league of Patrick Ramsey, Joey's league is the league of Matt Hasselbeck)

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 02:19 AM
Please do because your special teams cant save you every week.

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 02:23 AM
Please do because your special teams cant save you every week.

28-16

1 special teams TD = 7 points

28 - 7 = 21 , 21 > 16

The Special teams didn't save anything. The Lions never lost the lead

So far

you don't know your own QB, Team, My QB, Team, or arithmetic.
On top of being a contradicting hypocrite.

Maybe you should stop.....

(oh and both of Carr's td, came off a Lions blitz's that got held up by your "terrible" offensive line, in combination with the blown coverage of Brock Marion (bradford play) and Bracey Walker (Johnson Play)

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 02:28 AM
You know what I have never knocked Joey I actually hope he succeeds but you came on here and totally dogged him and make it sound like Joey is head and shoulders above him, which hes not. The fact is that both qbs are making good strides in their third year and who is the better qb is still up for grabs.

and no I dont blame Carr at all for the loss he didn't drop the 2 point conv. in the inzone. He didnt fumble the ball twice in crucial situations. He doesnt play defense to stop a 3rd and long which has been our weakness so far this season.

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 02:34 AM
I know what the damn score was. That special teams play was a momentium killer(happened right after Carr aka the crappy qb drove 81 yards on yall) and so was all the fumbles and If you know anything about football you would know whoever can keep the momentum and win the TO battle wins the game

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 02:36 AM
You know what I have never knocked Joey I actually hope he succeeds but you came on here and totally dogged him and make it sound like Joey is head and shoulders above him, which hes not. The fact is that both qbs are making good strides in their third year and who is the better qb is still up for grabs.

and no I dont blame Carr at all for the loss he didn't drop the 2 point conv. in the inzone. He didnt fumble the ball twice in crucial situations. He doesnt play Doesnt play defense to stop a 3rd and long which has been our weakness so far this season.

No you don't blame carr for the rest of the teams failures, but you only credit Harringtons surround cast for his sucess

I already told you, I get that :rofl:

But this Thread is about Harrington not being in the same League as Carr.

When there is alot of material that supports Carr might not be in the same league as Harrington. Your defedning Carr's obvious faults like they don't exsist, I don't deny Harrington isn't perfect (he's not or no lions fans would say anything about him) But I wouldn't pretend he can do no wrong, which seems to be the case among posters on this forum.

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 02:39 AM
and to answer you I do know my Qb and my team the problem is you dont so stop trying to act like a qb coach and telling me whats wrong with my qb and my team which again your not qualified to do after only watching one full game

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 02:40 AM
I know what the damn score was. That special teams play was a momentium killer(happened right after Carr aka the crappy qb drove 81 yards on yall) and so was all the fumbles and If you know anything about football you would know whoever can keep the momentum and win the TO battle wins the game

Hahaha, ok.

before the Special Teams TD the lions still were leading, and after the special teams TD, Joey the **** QB who isn't in the same league led a 7 minute drive to ice the game.


Momentum never seemed to leave the lions in the second half. So the momentum killer implys the lions lost it....they never lost it.

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 02:41 AM
and to answer you I do know my Qb and my team the problem is you dont so stop trying to act like a qb coach and telling me whats wrong with my qb and my team which again your not qualified to do after only watching one full game

Again, Check the Thread title

What exactly are you trying to contribute then? You're the one that entered this thread assuming you knew something about the Lions, or Harrington, or Carr, when you continue to prove otherwise.

Also, that quote seems really hypocritical.

I do know about your team, your QB, I know whats wrong with your team, I have seen more than just one game. As a lions fan I have alot of pratice in identifying **** when I see it.
Have you?

Make any arguement you want. Anyone who believes passionately David Carr is or has ever been, on a level better than Joey Harrington. Might want to have thier head checked for leaks.

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 02:54 AM
the fact is, its to early to call

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 02:56 AM
If there is so much evidence that carr is not in harrington's league then post it cause I dont see any. Also what do you aspect when you go onto somebody's messege board and tell them who crappy the qb is. Also I didnt write the title of this thread. If you would read a one of my previos post you would see that statisticly their careers are similar. I think your just tired of arguing about if your qb can cut it or not amonst your own fans on your own board that you have to go to another teams. how about you go back to your teams board and argue with all of the Joey haters over there about how great your qb is.

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 03:07 AM
Again, Check the Thread title

What exactly are you trying to contribute then? You're the one that entered this thread assuming you knew something about the Lions, or Harrington, or Carr, when you continue to prove otherwise.

Also, that quote seems really hypocritical.

I do know about your team, your QB, I know whats wrong with your team, I have seen more than just one game. As a lions fan I have alot of pratice in identifying **** when I see it.
Have you?

Make any arguement you want. Anyone who believes passionately David Carr is or has ever been, on a level better than Joey Harrington. Might want to have thier head checked for leaks.

Hey your own fans tell me what they think of harrington you wont find many Carr bashers here so he must be doing something right and if you know whats wrong with my team please tell oh god of all football knowledge

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 03:09 AM
If there is so much evidence that carr is not in harrington's league then post it cause I dont see any. Also what do you acpect when you go onto somebody's messege board and tell them who crappy the qb is. Also I didnt write the title of this thread. If you would read a one of my previos post you would see that statisticly their careers are similar. I think your just tired of arguing about if your qb can cut it or not amonst your own fans on your own board that you have to go to another teams. how about you go back to your teams board and argue with all of the Joey haters over there about how great your qb is.


In order -

First, HAHAHAHAHAHAH, ok right if you can't seperate saracasm, I am not going to play with you. It was making a point, that Carr is not on a higher level, and that Harrington might be farther along, if you didn't get that, too bad for you

Second, I didn't start this thread either

Third, They are only really similar a some areas, in the areas they are not similar, Joey is significantly better. In the areas that don't show up on the stat sheet. Joey is better.

Fourth, You know nothing about lions fans, I even go rip on Joey, we all rip on Joey, any QB that walks on Ford Field for the next 30 years is going to need therapy. We rip on every player at every position, even guys on the ****ing practice squad. But we all know how good a player is, we just enjoy being critical. If you asked me what I thought of Dre bly, my favorite player, I could point out every flaw in his game. Alot of Lions fans are just like I am.

Finally, I am not leaving, ever. Never ever, and anytime one of you Texans think you can rip on my Team or My QB in a manner that they don't deserve, I'll be there

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 03:14 AM
Hey your own fans tell me what they think of harrington you wont find many Carr bashers here so he must be doing something right and if you know whats wrong with my team please tell oh god of all football knowledge

WHAHAHHAAH wow, you really , really, really need to stop.

Just because your fan base is greatful to have a football team, and isn't critical of it's players , doesn't mean your players are preforming on the field. I can't beleive you even said that..... (works both ways, Just because any lion fan would rip on any player doesn't make him worthless.)

Only player that gets it around here is Dominic Davis....... thats basically it. Everyone else gets a free pass.

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 03:26 AM
You dont know **** about this board. Dont believe what you see on tv, the first and second year we were excited about having a team. This year we were excited about the team and want to win and are critical of the players.
Second about your sarcastic remark, how are you going to dog my qb for a hour and then tell me oh I was being sarcastic. Let me try to offer a olive branch here cause im really getting tired and say were just going to have to agree to disagree. You like your man and I like mine so everybodys a freakin winner. Also like I said before I really do like the lions they are a young team like us and I hope we meet in the superbowl one day. Good luck

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 03:40 AM
You dont know **** about this board. Dont believe what you see on tv, the first and second year we were excited about having a team. This year we were excited about the team and want to win and are critical of the players.
Second about your sarcastic remark, how are you going to dog my qb for a hour and then tell me oh I was being sarcastic. Let me try to offer a olive branch here cause im really getting tired and say were just going to have to agree to disagree. You like your man and I like mine so everybodys a freakin winner. Also like I said before I really do like the lions they are a young team like us and I hope we meet in the playoffs one day. Good luck

I think the 2 years of giddy appreciation is still very much alive in Houston, Houstan fans are normal, they enjoy thier team, they enjoy thier players, they haven't been let down yet. While 50 years of disapointment has killed any chance that any Lions fan can ever enjoy the game of football, we are just trying the best we can to whip this team into shape in the hopes they might have more than 1 playoff win BEFORE WE DIE. We are not normal, we are eternally negative. Houston fans are like a majoirty of sports fans, sane.

It's a blissful ignorant happiness we wish we could have back...we all had it before we learned that the Lions will always let us down. It's a tradition, taught to every child very early. I am not making this up to be dramatic either. It is not fun watching lions football, even when they win. Never has been, never will be. Nothing good can last, thats why not many of us are surprised Charles Rogers is on IR and Dre bly is hurt. Or Boss Baileys 4 week knee injury turns into a 2 month one. So if we can't love the feeling of optimism, we love the feeling of negativity.

It doesn't extend to the lions only, we use this ultra pessimistic perspective with any player we see. We see all the little things, we are looking for them. Now I am no expert, I don't claim to be (I did pick the last 3 superbowls in preseason though : P) I am just a guy who by circumstance is very good at pointing out the flaws in players.

I was being sarcastic about the another level comment, in response to the thread title. It was a essentially a joke.
But it was nice of you to try and get one last jab in before you "offer an olive branch" So, since your such a two faced contradictive hypocrite, offer accepted, I like that (even though I don't take these things personal)

It's all opinion anyway, some informed, some not, who's right? It's my opinion that I am, and thats the only one that matters ^_-.

Your right, we are all winners, Arguing on the Internet is like the Special Olympics ^_-


And remenber, it's a team sport.

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 03:58 AM
I think the 2 years of giddy appreciation is still very much alive in Houston, Houstan fans are normal, they enjoy thier team, they enjoy thier players, they haven't been let down yet. While 50 years of disapointment has killed any chance that any Lions fan can ever enjoy the game of football, we are just trying the best we can to whip this team into shape in the hopes they might have more than 1 playoff win BEFORE WE DIE. We are not normal, we are eternally negative. Houstan fans are like a majoirty of sports fans, sane.
It's a blissful ignorant happiness we wish we could have back...we all had it before we learned that the Lions will always let us down.



I was being sarcast about the another level comment, in response to the thread title. It was a essentially a joke.
But it was nice of you to try and get one last jab in before you "offer an olive branch" So, since your such a two faced contradictive hypocrite, offer accepted, I like that (even though I don't take these things personal)

It's all opinion anyway, some informed, some not, who's right? It's my opinion that I am, and thats the only one that matters ^_-.

Your right, we are all winners, Arguing on the Internet is like the Special Olympics ^_-


And remeber, it's a team sport.



Your wrong about Houston sports fans they are actually amost the same as Detroit did you ever hear of the Houston Oilers. The team that was alway knocking on the door, but couldnt never get through it. I hear about some field goal yall mised but thats nothing compared to blowing a 30 something point lead to the bills to go to the superbowl when their starting qb and running back were out of the game. The Astros have never won a playoff series(dont know much about the Tigers). I guess the only thing we can hang our hat on is our basketball teams. The Rockets were the only Houston team to ever come through in the Clutch. Clutch city the good ol days

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 04:10 AM
The funny thing is with the Oilers they changed cities and their name, but are still the same old Oilers, go to the Superbowl and still come up one yard short. I was mad when they left but now I'm glad they're gone. They are cursed

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 04:19 AM
[B]



Your wrong about Houston sports fans they are actually amost the same as Detroit did you ever hear of the Houston Oilers. The team that was alway knocking on the door, but couldnt never get through it. I hear about some field goal yall mised but thats nothing compared to blowing a 30 something point lead to the bills to go to the superbowl when their starting qb and running back were out of the game. The Astros have never won a playoff series(dont know much about the Tigers). I guess the only thing we can hang our hat on is our basketball teams. The Rockets were the only Houston team to ever come through in the Clutch. Clutch city the good ol days

The Tigers 84WS , Redwings, Pistons, all sucessfull in the past 20 years

The Lions have only won 1 playoff game since the 50's
Read this again, the lions have only won 1 playoff game since the 50's

Your fans really love having football, they love the team, they support the team, they give the players a chance.

We boo our players, we cheer them sarcastically when they finally do something right, we do this to ROOKIES.

We are in a very different culture, trust me. :rofl:

It's like Red Sox Fans, (except there team has won more than 1 playoff game)
They believe they are cursed, and that no matter what they do, they will never win a championship

This is how lions fans feel. Honest to god. Not a single one of us believe that this team will ever even make it to the superbowl, alot of us doubt we ever win the NFC championship...ever....

Sure in the offseason, we all talk about, this is the year, this is the year we finally do something. Then after a few games reality will set it.

..same old lions....

It has already set in this year, even with our 2-0 start, we know that Charles Rogers, Dre Bly, Boss Bailey, all these things are a sign, no matter what we do, it's never going to change.....So if we can't praise our players, we are going to do the only thing we can do. Be Critical, and we are experts at that.....

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 04:21 AM
The funny thing is with the Oilers they changed cities and their name, but are still the same old Oilers, go to the Superbowl and still come up one yard short. I was mad when they left but now I'm glad they're gone. They are cursed

Atleast they won more than 1 playoff game. : ( They even made the playoffs 2 years in a row....

I don't remebering that ever happening around here..... Heck, a 5-11 season around here is a significant improvement!!!


If the lions go 8-8 it's like they won the superbowl.

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 04:29 AM
Atleast they won more than 1 playoff game. : ( They even made the playoffs 2 years in a row....

I don't remebering that ever happening around here.....

That does suck 50 years of one playoff lion fans have been born and died and only saw 1 playoff victory.

The SpOilers would always take you to the doorstep the pull the mat out from underneth you

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 04:33 AM
---this is why lions fans are insane----

http://www.profootballreference.com/teams/

Postseason log
1999
NFC Wildcard Game: lost 13 - 27 at Washington Redskins

1997
NFC Wildcard Game: lost 10 - 20 at Tampa Bay Buccaneers

1995
NFC Wildcard Game: lost 37 - 58 at Philadelphia Eagles

1994
NFC Wildcard Game: lost 12 - 16 at Green Bay Packers

1993
NFC Wildcard Game: lost 24 - 28 vs. Green Bay Packers

1991
NFC Divisional Playoff: won 38 - 6 vs. Dallas Cowboys
NFC Championship Game: lost 10 - 41 at Washington Redskins
Best year

1983
NFC Divisional Playoff: lost 23 - 24 at San Francisco 49ers

1982
NFC Wildcard Game: lost 7 - 31 at Washington Redskins

1970
NFC Divisional Playoff: lost 0 - 5 at Dallas Cowboys


Only 9 playoff births in 47 years, with only 1 win.


Compared to your Oilers

1993
AFC Divisional Playoff: lost 20 - 28 vs. Kansas City Chiefs
1992
AFC Wildcard Game: lost 38 - 41 at Buffalo Bills
1991
AFC Wildcard Game: won 17 - 10 vs. New York Jets
AFC Divisional Playoff: lost 24 - 26 at Denver Broncos
1990
AFC Wildcard Game: lost 14 - 41 at Cincinnati Bengals
1989
AFC Wildcard Game: lost 23 - 26 vs. Pittsburgh Steelers
1988
AFC Wildcard Game: won 24 - 23 at Cleveland Browns
AFC Divisional Playoff: lost 10 - 17 at Buffalo Bills
1987
AFC Wildcard Game: won 23 - 20 vs. Seattle Seahawks
AFC Divisional Playoff: lost 10 - 34 at Denver Broncos
1980
AFC Wildcard Game: lost 7 - 27 at Oakland Raiders
1979
AFC Wildcard Game: won 13 - 7 vs. Denver Broncos
AFC Divisional Playoff: won 17 - 14 at San Diego Chargers
AFC Championship Game: lost 13 - 27 at Pittsburgh Steelers
1978
AFC Wildcard Game: won 17 - 9 at Miami Dolphins
AFC Divisional Playoff: won 31 - 14 at New England Patriots
AFC Championship Game: lost 5 - 34 at Pittsburgh Steelers
1969
AFL Divisional Playoff: lost 7 - 56 at Oakland Raiders
1967
AFL Championship Game: lost 7 - 40 at Oakland Raiders
1962
AFL Championship Game: lost 17 - 20 vs. Dallas Texans
1961
AFL Championship Game: won 10 - 3 at San Diego Chargers
1960
AFL Championship Game: won 24 - 16 vs. Los Angeles Chargers

15 births, with 9 Playoff wins over 43 years

This doesn't even include 99-2003


THe lions couldn't even beat the Bucs in the playoffs
idonno:

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 04:45 AM
What was the poll result I couldnt vote.
By the way I dont think I've seen fans with so little confidence about a 2-0 team its like they are chicken little just waiting for the sky to fall.

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 04:47 AM
What was the poll result I couldnt vote.
By the way I dont think I've seen fans with so little confidence about a 2-0 team its like they are chicken little just waiting for the sky to fall.

We are all like that (the poll expired) The poll was 53/47 in favor of contender with 70 votes

Even the ones that are saying 10-6 are basically trying to be optimistic, but deep down they don't believe it either.
:rofl: I am sure if you ask them personally they would admit it....If not, wait until week 5, they will admit it then , those same people will be back on board the pessimism train.

it's like this every year, without fail.

PutangPatrol
09-21-2004, 11:06 AM
I wouldn't consider Rogers a go to receiver. I think you have to earn that distinction and he hasn't done that yet. Streets and Az-Hakim are great fits and more than make up for Rogers in the short term.


When Rogers is in the game, he makes plays and opens up the rest of the offense. He is as good as Williams if he could ever stay healthy.

Also, arm strength does not make you a better QB. I'll take accuracy and decision making over arm strength anyday. Joey has the better TD/INT ratio and win/loss record and he makes the deep throws on target win he needs too.

Too many people are saying if Carr had this on offense, or was on this or that team, he would dominate.....The same could be argued about Joey. So you got to look at who is the best today....and that clearly is Joey. :boxing:

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 02:57 PM
well, good luck next week against the eagles :) hope you watched monday night football, i think if they can put pressure on daunte and the offensive line they have they will have a field day against joey. :) if they almost took moss out the game then they can take roy out easily. haha i can smell it now.

lionsfan101 says. "man, joey is horrible, 3 interceptions 2 for touchdowns what are we gonna do? mcmahon needs to start" its gonna be like that on yalls message board. if joey does perform well against them then maybe he wont get cut at the end of the year.

Wahaha, after what McMike did in preseason, his whole tenure, no intelligent Lions fans wants Mcmahon as a starter, even the ones who don't like Joey rather have the likes of might Jeff George over Mike Mcmahon (yes Jeff George thats how bad Mike is) Mike has shown no improvement in 4 years. But of course I am sure there are expections, every team has ***** fans.

But, you tell me when David Carr throws more than 9 TD's in a season.

Even Ryan Leaf Managed 11 in his second year.

Maybe thats why I don't like David Carr...he plays alot like a Stronger Armed Mike Mcmahon

wags
09-21-2004, 03:03 PM
I'm glad to see you fixed that statement geeks, since you obviously didn't know what you were talking about.

TheOgre
09-21-2004, 03:08 PM
I just realized something. Two of the worst franchises over the past 50 years are the Cardinals and the Lions. They each have one playoff win during some insane span. Guess who the team that lost each of those two games? You got it...the Troy Aikman led Cowboys. Tell me that isn't some twisted karma there.

wags
09-21-2004, 03:12 PM
Even Ryan Leaf Managed 11 in his second year.


He threw 11 in his third year, not second.

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 03:15 PM
I'm glad to see you fixed that statement geeks, since you obviously didn't know what you were talking about.

Hahah, right I knew what I was talking about, I just put it the wrong way, thats why my Edit came a minute after I read it over. But thanks for the small minded flame.


"But, you tell me when David Carr throws more than 9 TD's in a season.

Even Ryan Leaf Managed 11 in his second year."Changed to this

This is what i changed it to, from this..


"Tell me when Carr throws more Td's than Ryan Leaf"


And this a bonus
David Carr has 20 Td's over 3 years in 30 games
Ryan Leaf had 14 TD's over 3 years in 26 games

Ryan Leaf had 36 Interceptions
and Carr has 33 Interceptions


You had to point it out though, so I decided to compare Carr and Leaf, amazing how similar they are. :rofl:


He threw 11 in his third year, not second.
OH and It was Ryan Leafs Second Year as a starting QB.

wesleysh21
09-21-2004, 06:48 PM
Just for the record, both David Carr and Joey Harrington have been dealing with problems. Carr hasn't had time to find his weapons, Joey has had time to sit and laugh at the **** that was handed to him. Having time in the pocket only matters so much when your receivers suck...Az played half a season then was hurt...last season he wasn't the same guy recovering from that same injury. Charles gave us 5 games. What was left led the league in dropped passes, by a wide margin and was dead last in the league in rushing.

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 08:19 PM
Just for the record, both David Carr and Joey Harrington have been dealing with problems. Carr hasn't had time to find his weapons, Joey has had time to sit and laugh at the **** that was handed to him. Having time in the pocket only matters so much when your receivers suck...Az played half a season then was hurt...last season he wasn't the same guy recovering from that same injury. Charles gave us 5 games. What was left led the league in dropped passes, by a wide margin and was dead last in the league in rushing.

Why do you make my life so difficult

HoustonLionsFan
09-21-2004, 09:06 PM
I just realized something. Two of the worst franchises over the past 50 years are the Cardinals and the Lions. They each have one playoff win during some insane span.

Whatever dude, you're clueless. Detroit won several championships right before the NFL and AFL merged. They are 7 and 10 overall in the Playoffs (including old NFL). The had a winning record almost completly through the 90's. I'm guessing you were an Oiler Fan before the Texans. They were 9 and 13 in the playoffs. Big Difference, huh? How many SB's did the Oilers/Texans win? Oh that's right, none, they've never been there either.

Oh, and as far as bad franchises go, at least Detroit can keep theirs.

HoustonLionsFan
09-21-2004, 09:08 PM
well, good luck next week against the eagles :) hope you watched monday night football, i think if they can put pressure on daunte and the offensive line they have they will have a field day against joey. :) if they almost took moss out the game then they can take roy out easily. haha i can smell it now.

lionsfan101 says. "man, joey is horrible, 3 interceptions 2 for touchdowns what are we gonna do? mcmahon needs to start" its gonna be like that on yalls message board. if joey does perform well against them then maybe he wont get cut at the end of the year.

And yet a team so bad beat your team, huh, what'da know.

Ihategeeks
09-21-2004, 09:33 PM
Can't we all get along?

DomDavis
09-21-2004, 10:56 PM
First, Harrington not only had a Higher Rating, he kept his team in the game at critical times. And his team won.

Wins - Harrington
Statistic - Harrington

Next, the INT Joey Did throw was the fault of Roy Williams, after the game Roy admitted he ran his route incorrectly. Your correct it is a team sport

But, none of that matters, as you stated.

You didn't answer my question. Byron Leftwich has more wins than Peyton Manning - does that make him better?

In that game, both QB's had a shakey start, but the second half in the crucial moments Joey was clutch. Carr however, was making poor decision.

That's what matters, and Joey won in that respect. Does that make one better than the other? For 1 game, yes, Joey was better than Carr.

It's a team sport where David Carr still isn't getting the hang of his simplified offense.

I'm not sure you want to go down that road. Would you mind describing the poor decisions Carr made in crucial moments in the second half? Carr's rating was almost perfect in the second half and better than Harrington's.

Also, Carr had a rating of over 103 for the game but he still isn't getting the hang of the offense? There wasn't a single quarterback in the entire NFL who averaged a 103 QB rating last year... does that mean every QB in the NFL is struggling?

And I know you don't want to hear it, but TD/INT ratio is by far the most worthless and overrated statistic in all of sports (for individual games, not careers). Stats like yards, YPA, YPC, completion percentage and others are much more valid to determine a player's performance in one game.

cuppacoffee
09-21-2004, 11:20 PM
You should work on that , I hear Rommeo Crennell is looking for work

If you can get Charlie Wies too, well, thats a coup.

Why are these two available?

Huge
09-21-2004, 11:31 PM
The biggest factor in boosting your QB rating is having a high completion percentage. Of Domanick Davis' 11 receptions, 7 of them came in the 2nd half. Davis had more catches in the 2nd half than the rest of the Texans combined.

Bottom line, Carr's impressive "almost perfect rating" came at the expense of dumping the ball off to his RB...a lot.


You didn't answer my question. Byron Leftwich has more wins than Peyton Manning - does that make him better?


If he (Leftwich) was putting up better numbers along with the wins it might not mean he's a better QB but it would certainly mean he's playing better than Manning. And as of right now...Harrington is playing better than Carr.

If you disagree, that's fine. But I'd like to hear another example of how Harrington is "not in DC's league".

JDizzle
09-21-2004, 11:39 PM
[QUOTE]You didn't answer my question. Byron Leftwich has more wins than Peyton Manning - does that make him better?
QUOTE]

The Jags Defense is 2 - 0. Jax's offense is not putting up many points or converting many 3rd downs, but their D is something else I tell ya.

DomDavis
09-21-2004, 11:51 PM
Bottom line, Carr's impressive "almost perfect rating" came at the expense of dumping the ball off to his RB...a lot.

This is another misconception I don't like... just because the RB catches a ball doesn't mean it was a dump off. Davis ran a lot of patterns in the second half and caught some balls down the field. I don't care who caught the passes - you're doing something right if you throw for more than 300 yards (assuming you didn't have 40 completions or something).

If he (Leftwich) was putting up better numbers along with the wins it might not mean he's a better QB but it would certainly mean he's playing better than Manning. And as of right now...Harrington is playing better than Carr.

If you disagree, that's fine. But I'd like to hear another example of how Harrington is "not in DC's league".

Harrington is in Carr's league; I just don't see him as significantly better (or worse, for that matter). Like I said, a lot of it is because I don't put a lot of stock into TD/INT ratio because they don't show what is earned. It's kind of like looking at how many runs a pitcher gives up in baseball... it's not meaningless, but I'd rather see earned runs. Harrington deserved two interceptions, but got one in the books because another was called back due to a poor call.

Meanwhile, Kevin Jones was responsible for one of the Lions touchdowns... but Harrington got it in the books because they went playaction from inside the one and he made a throw that any one of us on this board would've made. If you take away one of those TD's or add an interception, Carr's rating is higher. I know that statistics won't change; I'm just stating how I look at it. I think Carr had a slightly better game because I don't place high importance on TD/INT ratio.

The Jags Defense is 2 - 0. Jax's offense is not putting up many points or converting many 3rd downs, but their D is something else I tell ya.

Exactly. It's the same way with a lot of teams. Detroit's whole team is playing well... their receivers are improved, the running game is improved and the defensive front seven is significantly better. Harrington isn't winning for Detroit; the team is. That's why my top pet peeve is "so and so played better because his team won"... that's just not right for individuals.

Carr Bombed
09-21-2004, 11:54 PM
This thread is really starting to get ridiculous. I stayed up to 3 o'clock in the morning writing on this thread and it turned out to be a big waste of time. Its really starting to sound like "My dad can beat up your dad". If you drop the homerism on both sides the fact is that as of right now Carr and Harrington are in the same league. Both qbs have yet to breakout and until one does it is to early to call. In a year or two it should be alot clearer. Houston is happy with their man and Detroit is happy with their man, so really what does it matter!

wags
09-22-2004, 12:01 AM
The biggest factor in boosting your QB rating is having a high completion percentage. Of Domanick Davis' 11 receptions, 7 of them came in the 2nd half. Davis had more catches in the 2nd half than the rest of the Texans combined.

Bottom line, Carr's impressive "almost perfect rating" came at the expense of dumping the ball off to his RB...a lot.


You didn't answer my question. Byron Leftwich has more wins than Peyton Manning - does that make him better?


If he (Leftwich) was putting up better numbers along with the wins it might not mean he's a better QB but it would certainly mean he's playing better than Manning. And as of right now...Harrington is playing better than Carr.

If you disagree, that's fine. But I'd like to hear another example of how Harrington is "not in DC's league".

I think the dumping it off to DD argument is getting old. Even in the "greatest show on turf," Marshall Faulk caught 80-90 passes a year. We're talking about the Super Bowl Rams who bomb it down the field. 80-90 catches for 4 straight years. So does Kurt Warners passer rating need to be adjusted because he dumped it off so much? Also, as Cak has said, DD is averaging 10 yards per catch. I'll take that all day.

Ihategeeks
09-22-2004, 01:27 AM
This thread is really starting to get ridiculous. I stayed up to 3 o'clock in the morning writing on this thread and it turned out to be a big waste of time. Its really starting to sound like "My dad can beat up your dad". If you drop the homerism on both sides the fact is that as of right now Carr and Harrington are in the same league. Both qbs have yet to breakout and until one does it is to early to call. In a year or two it should be alot clearer. Houston is happy with their man and Detroit is happy with their man, so really what does it matter!


Haha, I wasted hours off your life

And I have no life


THUS I WIN!!!!

:hehe:

Ihategeeks
09-22-2004, 01:29 AM
I think the dumping it off to DD argument is getting old. Even in the "greatest show on turf," Marshall Faulk caught 80-90 passes a year. We're talking about the Super Bowl Rams who bomb it down the field. 80-90 catches for 4 straight years. So does Kurt Warners passer rating need to be adjusted because he dumped it off so much? Also, as Cak has said, DD is averaging 10 yards per catch. I'll take that all day.

DD is averaging 10 yards a catch becase carr dumps it off to DD when the game is out of reach and the opposing defenses have everything down field covered

But thats not the only time Carr does this. David looks lost on the field at times and if the WR he is keying on isn't open he doesn't go through his progression he just hits his escape option.

But it has been said many times by everyone that has participated.

Its a team sport

None of this matters :rofl:

Carr Bombed
09-22-2004, 01:41 AM
Your still at it I see

Ihategeeks
09-22-2004, 02:22 AM
Your still at it I see

Always :headbang: It's pretty easy to do when each day another person takes the bait.

Huge
09-22-2004, 07:10 AM
This is another misconception I don't like... just because the RB catches a ball doesn't mean it was a dump off. Davis ran a lot of patterns in the second half and caught some balls down the field. I don't care who caught the passes - you're doing something right if you throw for more than 300 yards (assuming you didn't have 40 completions or something).


By "down the field" do you mean past the line of scrimmage?

1-10-DET28 (10:53) D.Carr pass to D.Davis to DET 21 for 7 yards
1-10-HOU18 (6:33) D.Carr pass to D.Davis to HST 27 for 9 yards
2-8-HOU41 (3:24) D.Carr pass to D.Davis to HST 46 for 5 yards
1-10-HOU19 (2:11) D.Carr pass to D.Davis pushed ob at HST 28 for 9 yards
2-1-HOU28 (1:41) D.Carr pass to D.Davis to HST 31 for 3 yards
3-14-HOU6 (3:39) D.Carr pass to D.Davis to HST 21 for 15 yards
3-17-DET17 (:50) (Shotgun) D.Carr pass to D.Davis to DET 5 for 12 yards

Davis ran "a lot" of patterns and caught some balls down field, huh? He had two catches that went for more than 10 yards. And those don't indicate the yards Davis picked up after the catch. I don't know...maybe you and I have different ideas to what "downfield" means.

I still think Carr had a good game after the 1st qtr. Before the 2nd-4th qtrs I was going to put a post on here stating that had I not known better, none of you could've convinced me that Carr and Harrington were taken with top 3 draft picks. Both looked worse than rookies at that time.

Just don't make his 2nd half into something it wasn't. When your RB has almost as many catches for the game (11) as the rest of your team combined (12), you're not being an effective QB. Not that it's all Carr's fault. Everybody needs to step up some but Carr is certainly included in this group.

I agree with just about everything else you said after this.


I think the dumping it off to DD argument is getting old. Even in the "greatest show on turf," Marshall Faulk caught 80-90 passes a year. We're talking about the Super Bowl Rams who bomb it down the field. 80-90 catches for 4 straight years. So does Kurt Warner's passer rating need to be adjusted because he dumped it off so much? Also, as Cak has said, DD is averaging 10 yards per catch. I'll take that all day.


No, I don't think it (Warner's passer rating) should be adjusted. But I also don't think much emphasis should be put on how high it was because of how he obtained it. Elvis Grbac has a higher career QB rating than Johnny Unitas. Ready to claim Grbac the better QB?

BetOnVYinCantonEasy
12-18-2006, 06:20 AM
Not a Harrington fan here...just amusing myself with postings past and productions present.