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View Full Version : Was Casserly really that Bad ?


real
09-12-2006, 03:42 PM
The last GM has turned out to be a huge joke as a talent evaluator.

Alot of posters have stated that they believe Casserly was a bust as a GM...Well i have a question...If D.Carr, Peek, Babin, T.J, Buchannon,D-Rob, Pitts, C.C, Earl, and all the rest of the players that had a hand in making a texan, turn out to be solid players/ live up to their potential, Will that change your perception of him ?

I'll be the first to admit that he made some questionable moves, but a lot of the players he picked or brought to the Texans are starting for us now...

Every GM makes bad picks...how bad was Casserly?

thetexanator
09-12-2006, 03:48 PM
were still an expansion team in year 5! yes he is that BAD.(wade,smith,jppru,hollings,travisty johnson, etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!casserly makes baby jesus cry.

real
09-12-2006, 03:52 PM
were still an expansion team in year 5! yes he is that BAD.(wade,smith,jppru,hollings,travisty johnson, etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!casserly makes baby jesus cry.

Jopru was injured..not his fault
Johnson is starting and has improved...

Im not sure who smith is..Robaire ? If so, I don't think that was a bad pick up..

And how much can you actually put on Casserly...The coaches are supposed to develop talent, and they didn't do that with anyone...

powerfuldragon
09-12-2006, 03:54 PM
were still an expansion team in year 5! yes he is that BAD.(wade,smith,jppru,hollings,travisty johnson, etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!casserly makes baby jesus cry.
i'm pretty sure most of the picks were dom capers' decisions.

real
09-12-2006, 03:58 PM
i'm pretty sure most of the picks were dom capers' decisions.

You think So ?

powerfuldragon
09-12-2006, 04:04 PM
You think So ?
yeah. I think casserly was just a guy trying to keep his coaches and organization happy. i think he got caught up in the *******storm and ended up looking pretty bad.

santo
09-12-2006, 04:07 PM
yeah. I think casserly was just a guy trying to keep his coaches and organization happy. i think he got caught up in the *******storm and ended up looking pretty bad.

He did choose Owen Daniels who as of right now Kubiak loves the guy

(on the play of TE Owen Daniels (http://houstontexans.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=215)) “He played well. He played really well. He needs to stay on the field. You’re not going to see him come off as we go on. He’s another young player that’s going to make us better in the long-haul. I expect him to be here a long, long time. I was impressed. I asked him to hold up on (Eagles DE) Jevon Kearse a couple times so we could max-protect, and he did a heck of a job. I was very impressed with him.”

Hervoyel
09-12-2006, 04:08 PM
I honestly believe that in many of these cases Dom & staff had significant input. I don't put it all on Casserly just like I don't put it all on Dom. I think they were a marriage made in hell.

real
09-12-2006, 04:30 PM
I actually think Casserly did Ok...Look at detroits draft for the last three years...He got C.C late in the draft and he's starting now...He wasn't a draft genius but I think he was o.k...

run-david-run
09-12-2006, 04:30 PM
i'm pretty sure most of the picks were dom capers' decisions.
That was the excuse we were fed, but it really dosnt fit. Capers-3-4 defense, hard nosed running, a perfect game finishes 3-0.
High draft picks: Carr, QB, Gaffney WR, AJ WR etc.
Obviously there were some picks that conformed to his style, but there was way to much contradiction between phillosophy and practice for it to be the decision of one man only. CC screwed up and was kept on to serve as a figure head for the Mario pick, I think.

Then again, Capers leaves and the next year all 5 of our draftees are starters...who the hell knows....

real
09-12-2006, 04:40 PM
Even if we assume that Casserly was responsible for all of our draft picks...what does that mean ? We still have a lot of those picks contributing to us right now...

SESupergenius
09-12-2006, 05:10 PM
I actually think Casserly did Ok...Look at detroits draft for the last three years...He got C.C late in the draft and he's starting now...He wasn't a draft genius but I think he was o.k...
And CC is great??? Yeah ok. Casserly was just weak. If he let the coaches pick the players then what is his job exactly? Scouting talent like Wade, PBuc, Boselli, etc????

Brandon420tx
09-12-2006, 05:22 PM
Even if we assume that Casserly was responsible for all of our draft picks...what does that mean ? We still have a lot of those picks contributing to us right now...

Check.

Go Babs.

thetexanator
09-12-2006, 08:38 PM
GUYS! cmon! i say it was at least 60% cass's fault over capers. they both
OVERPAID on wade, morlon
drafted joppru high in the second. that was a REACH
travisty johnson was a weak pick when carr kept getting sacked and we could have had barron.
Tony hollings top pick in 2nd rd!!(supp)
BABIN was a REACH, not to mention we got done by the titans on that trade.
PBUC, Brilliant!
Dave Ragone, 3RD ROUND pick.

the guy overpaid in the freeagent market, and could not draft in the 2, 3 rds.

he was BAD.
and i kinda agree with that other guy, it wasnt all on cass, but he was as much of the prob as capers.

mexican_texan
09-12-2006, 08:47 PM
He had to draft and sign players that fit Dom Capers and Vic Fangio's systems. Destined to fail at the get-go, but he made nice picks like Pro Bowlers AJ and Mathis, Dunta Robinson, Chester Pitts, Chad Stanley, Fred Weary, DD, and IMO, Travis Johnson, Jason Babin, Glenn Earl, CC Brown, and Vernand Morency.

Scooter
09-12-2006, 09:28 PM
i wont call casserly a "bust", but i will call him a "disappointment". from his results, i gather that he spent very little time observing the game of football. his decisions were made on hype and blind faith. buchannon & babin trades come to mind, along with the salaries given to weaver, robaire, wade, greendwood, and others. while it's great to trust the coaches opinions, decisions cant be made blindly upon them. someone has to hold the "NO" stamp, and casserly must've lost it in his desk. i really think casserly was little more than a turnstyle in the front office ... he didnt head up financial and was out-ranked by the coaches as far as acquiring & releasing players. because of this, there was almost no communication between the owners & staff ... which lead to outrageous salaries and players that obviously dont fit.

reeves had to be brought in to do casserly's job, and we'll see how that turns out. i'm not sure about yall, but i'm much more excited about this year's draft, coaching staff, & free agency than i have been for all 4 years combined from casserly.

Texian
09-12-2006, 09:28 PM
Dom & Cass are gone, no need to bash them, what is done is done, it is what it is.

painekiller
09-12-2006, 09:32 PM
If you want to say that Capers was the problem, who recomended him for the job? Casserly. The first few years Casserly told McNair what he needed to do. This last fall McNair did things with out Casserly and now he is gone.

How many 1st day picks are currently out of the league? Go by that. How many big money FA are now paid league minumum if they are even in the league.

Casserly was a good Head of College Scouting, but he was a bad GM. He wanted all the credit and none of the blame, just like he did in Washington.

TexansSeminole
09-12-2006, 09:34 PM
Guys, what about the expansion draft (found here: http://football.about.com/library/weekly/bl_expansiondraft.htm) how many of those players turned out to be key players on our teams. The expansion draft is amazing, we should have done well from THERE. Bad in my book.

P.S. heres a list of players that were available: http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives2001/features_2001/expansion_draftlist.asp

FILO_girl
09-12-2006, 09:58 PM
No, is the answer to the question. Yes, he was one of our big past problems.

I thought this dead horse was mulch by now.....

Rightnow
09-13-2006, 08:22 AM
I used to think it was 80% Capers and 20% Casserly. Now that I have seen so many high draft picks and overpaid free agents washout of the league I'm more like 60% Capers and 40% Casserly.

Mr. White
09-13-2006, 08:34 AM
Casserly hired Capers. 'Nuff said.

ArlingtonTexan
09-13-2006, 08:57 AM
Under Casserly the Texans evaluation of pro talent was poor. Couple that with the fact the organization overpaid for this mis-evaluated talent, free agency for the Texans was a disaster in both who they went after and who they kept.

The draft record was spotty. I think that Casserly has done a good job of placing himself as merely executing the wishes of his coaching staff. The job of the GM is not just to get the players that a coach may want. His scouting staff spends months if not years in some cases looking at a player that coaching staffs don't start thinking about until a couple of months before the draft. IMO, if there is a debate the GM is working with more knowledge and should veto a move he is not comfortable with.

real
09-13-2006, 09:15 AM
I don't understand...We had one disasterous year..every other year we were getting better...And last year you guys know we should have atleast won 5 or 6 games....And like it has been previously mentioned..a lot of these players are still contributing to our team..Some in a big way...To me that says that the previous coaching staff did a bad job of bringing talent along...Every move that a GM makes isn't going to be perfect, and considering the puzzling moves some previous GM's have made Casserly wasn't all that bad...

HomeBred_Texan
09-13-2006, 09:18 AM
He did choose Owen Daniels who as of right now Kubiak loves the guy


Kubs is not the only one that loves this guy. I was wondering why he isnt the starter.

beerlover
09-13-2006, 09:24 AM
Casserly took the money and ran :money: he was from the beginning, a fish out of water (non-Houstonian). Respected in NFL circles as a good choice to build an expansion franchise it was evident by year 4 that he did not have the long term health of the organization in mind only surviving to the end of his own contract terms. C-

Double Barrel
09-13-2006, 09:34 AM
We're the first expansion team to not have a winning record in it's first four years (much less a playoff appearance).

The previous staff - Capers & Casserly included - suck. Good riddance. Now it'll probably take Kubiak & Co. a year or two just to undo the damage (especially to our QB after the previous regime failed to put together even a decent o-line). And that's another thing, how stupid is it to start a rookie QB on an expansion team?

They all get F's in my grading system.

HOU-TEX
09-13-2006, 09:44 AM
We're the first expansion team to not have a winning record in it's first four years (much less a playoff appearance).

The previous staff - Capers & Casserly included - suck. Good riddance. Now it'll probably take Kubiak & Co. a year or two just to undo the damage (especially to our QB after the previous regime failed to put together even a decent o-line). And that's another thing, how stupid is it to start a rookie QB on an expansion team?

They all get F's in my grading system.

They don't even get F's in my system. They all get incompletes due to not finishing anything! THEY'VE BEEN EXPELLED! :yahoo:

dwilt72
09-13-2006, 11:48 AM
Charlie's biggest weakness/strength is that he listens to his coaches, and gets what they want I'm not giving him a pass because he should have put his foot down on players that he thought couldn't play. The fact is that, although Dom Capers is an EXCELLENT defensice coordinator, he is not a good judge of talent. He proved that in Carolina, and he proved that here. It is going to take a couple of years to coirrect the problem, but I give Capers 90% of then blame.

I agree. I think Capers is an excellent DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR. However, he lacks in building a coaching staff and evaluating talent. I recently heard that they didn't have Shawne Merriman, David Pollack or Shaun Phillips rated on their draft boards as OLB's. They didn't think they could play as LB's in a 3-4. Last I looked these are some of the more talented young OLB's in the league. However, Charlie tends to hide behind his coaches and places the blame on them. Would the coaches have made better personnel decisions if Casserly had given better info? Who knows?

Xman
09-13-2006, 12:21 PM
Casserly was a huge disappointment.

The talent evaluation was bad - that in itself is enough to say he was bad.

But, what I can't forgive is not sticking to the "Plan."

Remember the first year when the "Plan" was to slowly build with an eye on year 5. I liked that plan. To hope for much too soon means you are mortgaging the future when you don't have a chance to win it all (yeah, you might get a winning record, but I am in the "I want a chance to win a SuperBowl even if we have eight losing years" boat (but hopefully we don't have to bad for that long).

Anyway, I think Casserly foiled the lan when he started trading away draft picks instead of trading for them. I remember the discussion about "we need a team made up of 1st through 3rd round draft picks" - does anyone else? THEN he goes and TRADES THOSE PICKS AWAY.

True, if Babin and Buchy had played like gangbusters, then it would be hard to fault the deal. But, they didn't - - and if anyone would have reviewed game fil we would have known Buchy sucks; and, Babin was not projected in the first round. So, first he deviated from the plan and then wasted the picks. That is what I blame him for.

Of course, the Hollings/Joppru/Gaffney/etc. picks didn't help. But, I will give him a pass on injuries (Joppru - but not Hollings who was hurt before he got here). I will even forgive a few bad evaluations (even I thought Gaffney was a steal). But, not following the plan, then compounding that mistake by wasting all those picks on bad talent, that means he was TERRIBLE.

Just think: Buchy (a 2nd and a 3rd) and Babin (a 2nd and 2 3rds?) are 5 starting quality player mistakes. Hollings and Joppru are 2 more (could add Gaffney, etc. but keeping it to the clealry bad moves). So, we wasted 7 picks in the 2nd and 3rd rounds - which could have solved a lot of our problems (another 2 OLBs, a CB, a S, an OL, a DL and a RB drafted in the first 3 rounds would look really good on our roster right now)

real
09-13-2006, 12:24 PM
I don't understand how people classify Jopru as a "draft mistake"...how was Casserly supposed to know that he'd get hurt ??

Vinny
09-13-2006, 12:26 PM
Steve McKinney said that the Eagles did many things we weren't prepared to handle. I don't think I ever heard them say we weren't prepared about Capers game plans. Just sayin'

Double Barrel
09-13-2006, 12:27 PM
Steve McKinney said that the Eagles did many things we weren't prepared to handle. I don't think I ever heard them say we weren't prepared about Capers game plans. Just sayin'

That is interesting insight from a player....and a bit discouraging, to be honest. :um:

real
09-13-2006, 12:28 PM
That is interesting insight from a player....and a bit discouraging, to be honest. :um:

Shouldn't be too discouraging...Kubiak and staff have to go through growing pains too...remember it's his first year also...

Xman
09-13-2006, 12:30 PM
That is interesting insight from a player....and a bit discouraging, to be honest. :um:

If Kubes isn't preparing them I would be shocked. I think the problem might be that the OL still is working on the basics of his system and isn't ready to handle complex defenses yet (in other words, our guys are still at step 2 of 5 instead of step 4 of 5).

Insideop
09-13-2006, 01:30 PM
Dom & Cass are gone, no need to bash them, what is done is done, it is what it is.


Amen! Too many people around here living in the past or wanting to change the past. Sorry, you can't do it! Let's move on please. And that goes double for all those who think we should have drafted SOMEBODY else! :deadhorse

Xman
09-13-2006, 01:45 PM
I don't understand how people classify Jopru as a "draft mistake"...how was Casserly supposed to know that he'd get hurt ??

I agree that you can not fault him for injuries, but Joppru was not rated as a 2nd rounder on most draft projections.
So, it was not a good pick based on that. And, the highest ranked player was Mike Doss, who would have given us a solid safety. But, boldin who went a few picks later would have been very nice also. (LJ Smith and Witten also went shortly thereafter, and they would have been great also)

real
09-13-2006, 01:52 PM
I agree that you can not fault him for injuries, but Joppru was not rated as a 2nd rounder on most draft projections.
So, it was not a good pick based on that. And, the highest ranked player was Mike Doss, who would have given us a solid safety. But, boldin who went a few picks later would have been very nice also. (LJ Smith and Witten also went shortly thereafter, and they would have been great also)

Thats true...

Double Barrel
09-13-2006, 02:44 PM
Shouldn't be too discouraging...Kubiak and staff have to go through growing pains too...remember it's his first year also...

yeah, I suppose...but this isn't Kubiak's first rodeo...and for McKinney to say that he was unprepared, this also speaks of Sherman (who is coaching the o-line). And many of these players were studying the Eagles film before the last pre-season game against Tampa Bay.

I'd like to hear more from McKinney to quantify that statement, and specifically, what were they not prepared for? Just out of curiosity, if nothing else.