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Texan Ned
09-12-2006, 03:30 PM
Lets follow these two all season and see who is most productive and more worthy of being THE #1 pick. I mean seriously, are the Saints THAT much better than the Texans?

Game 1

Mario 2 Tackles 1 Assist 0 Sacks

Reggie 61 Rush Yds 58 Rec Yds 0 TD's

Season to Date

Mario 2/1/0
Reggie 61/58/0

El Tejano
09-12-2006, 03:32 PM
You are forgetting that right now Saints are 1-0 and Texans are 0-1.

19-10
09-12-2006, 03:33 PM
While we're at it let's compare oh I don't know ... oranges and apples or night versus day. Don't mean to be a smart a&* but this horse is dead ...
at least on this board it should be

texan279
09-12-2006, 03:35 PM
I shouldn't have even read this thread but honestly, how can you compare a DE and a RB? Two different positions on two different sides of the ball on two different teams. Just because the guys were drafted #1 and #2 overall doesn't mean they can justly be compared to one another.

Mr. White
09-12-2006, 03:37 PM
:shots:

caspian
09-12-2006, 03:44 PM
Lets follow these two all season and see who is most productive and more worthy of being THE #1 pick. I mean seriously, are the Saints THAT much better than the Texans?

Game 1

Mario 2 Tackles 1 Assist 0 Sacks

Reggie 61 Rush Yds 58 Rec Yds 0 TD's

Season to Date

Mario 2/1/0
Reggie 61/58/0


I agree. Let's follow them despite all the ridiculous homerism on this board. The staff should be accountable for the decision they made, good or bad.

I swear; some people think being a fan is putting "earmuffs" on and saying, "la la la la la la...I'm NOT listening"; no matter what evidence is shown.

The question is, how good is this apple relative to other apples compared to this orange relative to other oranges?

19-10
09-12-2006, 03:49 PM
I agree. Let's follow them despite all the ridiculous homerism on this board. The staff should be accountable for the decision they made, good or bad.

I swear; some people think being a fan is putting "earmuffs" on and saying, "la la la la la la...I'm NOT listening"; no matter what evidence is shown.

The question is, how good is this apple relative to other apples compared to this orange relative to other oranges?

Wow - could that make any less sense? What other apples were #1 DE's? and #2 RB's? Relatively speaking that is :rolleyes:

real
09-12-2006, 03:57 PM
I think this is beating a dead horse, but for arguments sake...The two can be compared...Who was the better player last year...Favre or Freeney ? Tomlinson or Travis Johnson ? It's not rocket science...If they both do relatively well then why would it matter ? One will have to do extremely better than the other one for someone to say i told you so...

Honoring Earl 34
09-12-2006, 04:00 PM
Why did'nt we draft Laurence Moroney ... he had 145 total yds on less touches than Reggie Bush . We are dumb #$# because we did'nt draft LM .

How can we be so stupid he carried , the University of Minnesota and did'nt have Matt L , Lendale , Byrd , Justice , or the two gaurds that were drafted to lighten the load . Nope we're stupid because Moroney's the real deal . To hell with Mario and to hell with Reggie ... LM for ROY .:hunter:

blockhead83
09-12-2006, 04:07 PM
Let's say Reggie turns out to be a HoF'er and Mario busts. Oops, didn't see that coming, in hindsight Kubiak should've gone for Reggie. Now what? Will you be content if we all kick and scream and lament over how stupid our front office is, and how reggie was so great, and how you knew it all along? There's no crystal ball folks, if we look back 5 years from now and see we made a mistake then we made a mistake, no sense b*tching about it. I advise you to judge Kubiak based on how our team performs with him at the helm, not how lucky he gets in the crapshoot they call the draft. One player, one draft pick does not a team make.

As for keeping track of their stats to seeing who's playing better, sure. That's interesting, but not very indicative of who will be better for their team in the long run.

19-10
09-12-2006, 04:08 PM
Why did'nt we draft Laurence Moroney ... he had 145 total yds on less touches than Reggie Bush . We are dumb #$# because we did'nt draft LM .

How can we be so stupid he carried , the University of Minnesota and did'nt have Matt L , Lendale , Byrd , Justice , or the two gaurds that were drafted to lighten the load . Nope we're stupid because Moroney's the real deal . To hell with Mario and to hell with Reggie ... LM for ROY .:hunter:


I like LM too but "to hell with Mario"???? Dude that is out of line if you are a Texans fan. What could possibly prompt that???

powerfuldragon
09-12-2006, 04:10 PM
who was better? Marshall Faulk or Johnny Unitas?

bigTEXan8
09-12-2006, 04:22 PM
let's see. two positions that recieve different levels of hype. there's the flashy rb position played by reggie bush, and then there is the more grunt work position, dl, being played by m williams. the numbers of a rb are bigger in comparison to the of a dl position. plus...i have a question. what's the average tackles a dlineman makes in a season? i'll take williams over bush all the time because it will better for the team in the long run.

Honoring Earl 34
09-12-2006, 04:37 PM
who was better? Marshall Faulk or Johnny Unitas?
I'll take Unitas cause he played against Frank Gifford ... who's been with Kathy Lee .:redtowel:

TreWardTxn
09-12-2006, 04:51 PM
Let's say Reggie turns out to be a HoF'er and Mario busts. Oops, didn't see that coming, in hindsight Kubiak should've gone for Reggie. Now what? Will you be content if we all kick and scream and lament over how stupid our front office is, and how reggie was so great, and how you knew it all along? There's no crystal ball folks, if we look back 5 years from now and see we made a mistake then we made a mistake, no sense b*tching about it. I advise you to judge Kubiak based on how our team performs with him at the helm, not how lucky he gets in the crapshoot they call the draft. One player, one draft pick does not a team make.

As for keeping track of their stats to seeing who's playing better, sure. That's interesting, but not very indicative of who will be better for their team in the long run.


Although its way too early to make any judgements whether any of these rookies will pan out to be quality picks, I disagree that wasting first round, top 10 picks will not make ur franchise; bad personnel decisions always haunt a team. Look at Capers' crew, there first decision was to bring in Boselli, and the franchise is still dealing with that mistake. I can't think of many teams with first picks that don't pan out, but still wins (Broncos maybe w/ the WRs). Bottom line, if Mario or any top 15 pick is a bust, the stink will not go away for a good while...

real
09-12-2006, 04:54 PM
Although its way too early to make any judgements whether any of these rookies will pan out to be quality picks, I disagree that wasting first round, top 10 picks will not make ur franchise; bad personnel decisions always haunt a team. Look at Capers' crew, there first decision was to bring in Boselli, and the franchise is still dealing with that mistake. I can't think of many teams with first picks that don't pan out, but still wins (Broncos maybe w/ the WRs). Bottom line, if Mario or any top 15 pick is a bust, the stink will not go away for a good while...

I know I'm gonna get the whole "When did Football=Basketball" argument but...Darko Milicic(sp)

Texan Ned
09-12-2006, 05:06 PM
Jesus. Since it was such a huge issue and so many people had such strong opinions, I just thought it would be fun to follow the production of each throughout the season. Who cares about apples and oranges, just have a little fun and go with it. Afterall, since the Texans spent the #1 pick on a DE, wouldn't you expect him to be an LT (Lawrence Taylor) type of impact player...without the coke of course???

shinerbock_girl
09-12-2006, 05:15 PM
I bet if we had played the Browns instead of Philly, no one would be having this conversation....

mexican_texan
09-12-2006, 05:22 PM
[/B]


I like LM too but "to hell with Mario"???? Dude that is out of line if you are a Texans fan. What could possibly prompt that???
I detect a hint of sarcasm...

The Texans FO tried to trade up to get Maroney or DeAngelo Williams, but the Bears offered more. We wouldn't have ended up with Meco, so I'm not complaining.

Brandon420tx
09-12-2006, 05:23 PM
:deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse

TEXANS84
09-12-2006, 05:26 PM
You're right Brandon, this thread is beating a dead horse. A fair grade would be AFTER the season.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-12-2006, 05:26 PM
http://www.ravensnest2.com/insiders/icons/tts.gif

run-david-run
09-12-2006, 05:45 PM
Jesus. Since it was such a huge issue and so many people had such strong opinions, I just thought it would be fun to follow the production of each throughout the season. Who cares about apples and oranges, just have a little fun and go with it. Afterall, since the Texans spent the #1 pick on a DE, wouldn't you expect him to be an LT (Lawrence Taylor) type of impact player...without the coke of course???
LT wasnt LT in his first season. People are sick of this type of comparisson between the two where Mario is already placed at a disadvantage because of the position he plays added to the fact most D-linemen take a while to deveolp. Meanwhile Reggie has a nationwide PR firm in ESPN and a high impact position.

Damn, about two days ago i said i would not read or post in any threads comparing Reggie and Mario...so much for that

texan279
09-12-2006, 06:00 PM
LT wasnt LT in his first season. People are sick of this type of comparisson between the two where Mario is already placed at a disadvantage because of the position he plays added to the fact most D-linemen take a while to deveolp. Meanwhile Reggie has a nationwide PR firm in ESPN and a high impact position.

Damn, about two days ago i said i would not read or post in any threads comparing Reggie and Mario...so much for that

Are you talking about Lawrence Taylor? Taylor had 9.5 sacks his rookie season and made the pro bowl. I am not dogging Mario here just saying.

Double Barrel
09-12-2006, 06:07 PM
Reggie Bush would have put a lot more pressure on Donovan McNabb, that's for sure. :dancing:

:sarcasm:

thunderkyss
09-12-2006, 06:17 PM
The question is, how good is this apple relative to other apples compared to this orange relative to other oranges?

Mario*: 2 tackles, 1 assist, 0 sacks.
Freeney*: 0 tackles, 1 assist, 0 sacks
Strahan*: 4 tackles, 2 assists, 0 sacks
Taylor*: 2 tackles, 1 assist, 1 sack
Kearse*: 1 tackle, 0 assists, 1 sack
Howard*: 2 tackles, 0 assist, 0 sacks


Reggie: 14 att 61 yards, 8 receptions, 58 yards (22 touches 119 yards.)
LT*: 31 carries 131 yards 3 receptions 18 yards 1 Td (34 touches 149 yards)
Barber*: 18 carries 110 yards 5 receptions 61yards 0 TDs (23 touches 171 yards)
RudiJohnson*: 28 carries 96 yards 1 reception 7 yards 1 TD (29 touches 113 yards)
Westbrook*: 17 carries 71 yards 4 receptions 81 yards 0 TDs (21 touches 152 yards)

* all these players are consider too important to their teams to be used on special teams.

Mario appears to be middle of the pack.

Reggie seems to be dragging the rear.

Mr. White
09-12-2006, 06:20 PM
Reggie Bush doesn't have to actually use his thumb during a thumb war.

Mr. White
09-12-2006, 06:22 PM
Reggie Bush can do push ups with both arms tied behind his back.

mexican_texan
09-12-2006, 06:22 PM
Mario*: 2 tackles, 1 assist, 0 sacks.
Freeney*: 0 tackles, 1 assist, 0 sacks
Strahan*: 4 tackles, 2 assists, 0 sacks
Taylor*: 2 tackles, 1 assist, 1 sack
Kearse*: 1 tackle, 0 assists, 1 sack
Howard*: 2 tackles, 0 assist, 0 sacks


Reggie: 14 att 61 yards, 8 receptions, 58 yards (22 touches 119 yards.)
LT*: 31 carries 131 yards 3 receptions 18 yards 1 Td (34 touches 149 yards)
Barber*: 18 carries 110 yards 5 receptions 61yards 0 TDs (23 touches 171 yards)
RudiJohnson*: 28 carries 96 yards 1 reception 7 yards 1 TD (29 touches 113 yards)
Westbrook*: 17 carries 71 yards 4 receptions 81 yards 0 TDs (21 touches 152 yards)

* all these players are consider too important to their teams to be used on special teams.

Mario appears to be middle of the pack.

Reggie seems to be dragging the rear.
Of the elite, one of the better D lineman overall. But once again, I must state that defensive lineman cannot be judged based on stats. You can have a Pro Bowl lineman who has one sack for the whole season.

texan279
09-12-2006, 06:23 PM
Some people like to eat frogs' legs. Reggie Bush likes to eat lizard legs. Hence, snakes.

thunderkyss
09-12-2006, 06:24 PM
Jesus. Since it was such a huge issue and so many people had such strong opinions, I just thought it would be fun to follow the production of each throughout the season. Who cares about apples and oranges, just have a little fun and go with it. Afterall, since the Texans spent the #1 pick on a DE, wouldn't you expect him to be an LT (Lawrence Taylor) type of impact player...without the coke of course???

I like the intention.... we're going to be talking about them anyway. It would be nice to have the stats in one place.


wasn't LT a Linebacker??

BEERnBBQ
09-12-2006, 06:58 PM
frankly i couldn't give a rats a** what reggie did or does the rest of the season. He ain't going to help us win any games. We didn't pick him so get over it. He don't play with us, he's not in our division, or conference. we've got more important things in the AFC to worry about than what reggie did during his game. Good luck to him and the Saints, but the only thing that matters to me is how the Texans do and how we play against our immediate opponent.:texan: thats my opinion on the reggie matter

Texan Ned
09-12-2006, 07:16 PM
Of course LT was an LB, just making a point that the #1 overall pick SHOULD be an impact player. Looks like that this week our #2 pick was THE Impact player, leading both teams in tackles.

Kaiser Toro
09-12-2006, 07:26 PM
My grandfather used to say that if I had a brain I would take it out of my head and play with it. It never made sense until now.

Wolf
09-12-2006, 07:52 PM
Reggie Bush can do push ups with both arms tied behind his back.

Reggie bush can win an *** kicking contest with only one leg

TexansLucky13
09-12-2006, 07:55 PM
Vinny or cak.... please rename this thread "I can't seem to find my brain". I like that better than the "My pee pee hurts", even though that was an awesome one.

RiotCommander
09-12-2006, 07:59 PM
You know if Mario never turns out to be a very good DE I was just thinking he should make a really good LT. He is quick agile and seems to love locking up with people. We could put Spencer at LG.

I know he was not drafted to be a LT, but I'm just throwing it out there. :shoot: :hunter: :shoot:



P.S. I do expect Mario to turn things around in the coming weeks when he is more relaxed out there, and not so much in his own head.

caspian
09-12-2006, 08:16 PM
I think this is beating a dead horse, but for arguments sake...The two can be compared...Who was the better player last year...Favre or Freeney ? Tomlinson or Travis Johnson ? It's not rocket science...If they both do relatively well then why would it matter ? One will have to do extremely better than the other one for someone to say i told you so...

Bingo.

Tulip
09-12-2006, 08:20 PM
People are sick of this type of comparisson between the two where Mario is already placed at a disadvantage because of the position he plays added to the fact most D-linemen take a while to deveolp. Meanwhile Reggie has a nationwide PR firm in ESPN and a high impact position.

A high impact position with one of the shortest learning curves...

Why are their stats lined up like this? Is Mario supposed to have recorded 61 tackles and 58 assists against the Eagles to be on par with Reggie? I'm clueless.

caspian
09-12-2006, 08:28 PM
Mario*: 2 tackles, 1 assist, 0 sacks.
Freeney*: 0 tackles, 1 assist, 0 sacks
Strahan*: 4 tackles, 2 assists, 0 sacks
Taylor*: 2 tackles, 1 assist, 1 sack
Kearse*: 1 tackle, 0 assists, 1 sack
Howard*: 2 tackles, 0 assist, 0 sacks


Reggie: 14 att 61 yards, 8 receptions, 58 yards (22 touches 119 yards.)
LT*: 31 carries 131 yards 3 receptions 18 yards 1 Td (34 touches 149 yards)
Barber*: 18 carries 110 yards 5 receptions 61yards 0 TDs (23 touches 171 yards)
RudiJohnson*: 28 carries 96 yards 1 reception 7 yards 1 TD (29 touches 113 yards)
Westbrook*: 17 carries 71 yards 4 receptions 81 yards 0 TDs (21 touches 152 yards)

* all these players are consider too important to their teams to be used on special teams.

Mario appears to be middle of the pack.

Reggie seems to be dragging the rear.

This is the idea...thanks.

As the seasons go on, we'll start seeing where in the "pack" each are positioning themselves and how they impact the game from their respective vantage points. That's a perfectly reasonable comparison.

So far [after one measely game], according to this, it looks like Mario is holding his own. :)

Texan Ned
09-12-2006, 08:35 PM
This is the idea...thanks.

As the seasons go on, we'll start seeing where in the "pack" each are positioning themselves and how they impact the game from their respective vantage points. That's a perfectly reasonable comparison.

So far [after one measely game], according to this, it looks like Mario is holding his own. :)

Thanks Caspian. You seem to get where I was trying to go with this. It's not a long assumption to expect that the #1 overall SHOULD be an impact player, and we'll see as the season goes on where each falls according to their respective positions.

Tulip
09-12-2006, 08:36 PM
* all these players are consider too important to their teams to be used on special teams.

Priceless.

Kaiser Toro
09-12-2006, 08:36 PM
Mario*: 2 tackles, 1 assist, 0 sacks.
Freeney*: 0 tackles, 1 assist, 0 sacks
Strahan*: 4 tackles, 2 assists, 0 sacks
Taylor*: 2 tackles, 1 assist, 1 sack
Kearse*: 1 tackle, 0 assists, 1 sack
Howard*: 2 tackles, 0 assist, 0 sacks


Reggie: 14 att 61 yards, 8 receptions, 58 yards (22 touches 119 yards.)
LT*: 31 carries 131 yards 3 receptions 18 yards 1 Td (34 touches 149 yards)
Barber*: 18 carries 110 yards 5 receptions 61yards 0 TDs (23 touches 171 yards)
RudiJohnson*: 28 carries 96 yards 1 reception 7 yards 1 TD (29 touches 113 yards)
Westbrook*: 17 carries 71 yards 4 receptions 81 yards 0 TDs (21 touches 152 yards)

* all these players are consider too important to their teams to be used on special teams.

Mario appears to be middle of the pack.

Reggie seems to be dragging the rear.

Veni, vidi, vici!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to thunderkyss again.

cbnjwill
09-12-2006, 09:28 PM
come on man dont just pick in choose what guys stats your gonna put up in a pathetic attempt to make mario look better and bush worse. just as easily you could put up guys like merriman and the game he had compare that one to mario. and there were plenty of big time backs who didnt perform as well as bush.. where alexanders and larry johnson numbers here but i guess since bushs' numbers were better your not gonna post those. weak........

Texan Ned
09-12-2006, 09:42 PM
come on man dont just pick in choose what guys stats your gonna put up in a pathetic attempt to make mario look better and bush worse. just as easily you could put up guys like merriman and the game he had compare that one to mario. and there were plenty of big time backs who didnt perform as well as bush.. where alexanders and larry johnson numbers here but i guess since bushs' numbers were better your not gonna post those. weak........

huh?

Kaiser Toro
09-12-2006, 09:43 PM
and there were plenty of big time backs who didnt perform as well as bush.. where alexanders and larry johnson numbers here but i guess since bushs' numbers were better your not gonna post those. weak........

And most of them have something in common, large contracts. And so we complete the circle of libre de agencia. Circle of Free Agency for those unilinguists scoring at home.

cbnjwill
09-12-2006, 09:46 PM
lets face it guys we didnt sign mario at a discount. 56 million bucks he was the highest paid player drafted, so we didnt get mario cheaply

Honoring Earl 34
09-12-2006, 09:50 PM
You ever listen to a CD ... and after the first song you eject it . Then you put in a CD and after the first song declare this ones much better ... heck it may be the greatest CD ever the band Head East will make history .

Kaiser Toro
09-12-2006, 09:52 PM
lets face it guys we didnt sign mario at a discount. 56 million bucks he was the highest paid player drafted, so we didnt get mario cheaply

I never thought of it like that. He is taking up 56 million dollars on a 102 million cap. Zoinks! That is one half of this year's salary cap. We better get in the Mystery Machine and solve this caper.

mexican_texan
09-12-2006, 10:02 PM
come on man dont just pick in choose what guys stats your gonna put up in a pathetic attempt to make mario look better and bush worse. just as easily you could put up guys like merriman and the game he had compare that one to mario. and there were plenty of big time backs who didnt perform as well as bush.. where alexanders and larry johnson numbers here but i guess since bushs' numbers were better your not gonna post those. weak........
Shawne Merriman=linebacker
Mario=Defensive line

You could post the star running backs' bad games, but the same could be done for Mario to make him look even better. Derrick Burgess, Kyle Vanden Bosch, Jason Taylor, Jared Allen, Charles Grant, Will Smith, and more, good linemen who didn't have great days.

Return yards should NEVER be part of total yards for a game. How many yards did Mathis have last year? Who cares, its the touchdowns that count.

What did Vince Young, AJ Hawk, Bush, Matt Leinart, Jay Cutler, et all do to earn their money? Bush is the only one who had a respectable day and doesn't make too much money less than Mario. Mario's stats compare to the elite defensive linemen, despite playing multiple positions on the line.

mexican_texan
09-12-2006, 10:03 PM
I never thought of it like that. He is taking up 56 million dollars on a 102 million cap. Zoinks! That is one half of this year's salary cap. We better get in the Mystery Machine and solve this caper.
Ah, but Ron Mexico takes up $110 million. :bananasplit:

The Pencil Neck
09-12-2006, 10:49 PM
Are you talking about Lawrence Taylor? Taylor had 9.5 sacks his rookie season and made the pro bowl. I am not dogging Mario here just saying.

If Mario gets a sack every other game, he'll end up with 8. Will that be OK?

I don't think Peppers had a sack until the 3rd or 4th game his rookie year and ended up with... what... 12?

And with Mario, it's not even about the number of sacks he gets. It's about the amount of chaos he creates and if he can create pressure or sacks for other players.

Let's say that Mario gets 6.5 sacks this year. Will that make him a bust? I mean... Bruce Smith was the 1st pick overall in 1985 and all he got was 6.5 sacks his rookie year and he was a "sack specialist". Was he a bust? He had 13 in his second year and I think he did OK after that.

Personally, I'm willing to give Mario a couple of years to develop. And before anyone says that they want a #1 overall pick to contribute immediately, there have been lots of #1 overalls who have taken some time to develop. Although most haven't (as in ever developed). (On a scary note, there are only 12 guys in the HOF that were drafted #1 overall.)

Goldeagle
09-12-2006, 11:02 PM
Reggie Vs. the Browns and had 140 all purpose...

Big Deal Rudi Johnson will run for 160 yards (not counting receptions, punt returns, running to the lockerroom).

DeclanJr
09-13-2006, 03:24 AM
This has probably been mentioned, but Reggie did it against the Browns. We were playing a far superior team in the Eagles. They are a playoff contender with a stout defense and an experienced offensive line. There is another thread discussing rookie of the week candidates. Of course Reggie is leading in a landslide because of all the hype, but I think we should be happy to have a second round pick in the running...that's my 2 cents.

thunderkyss
09-13-2006, 07:42 AM
Of course LT was an LB, just making a point that the #1 overall pick SHOULD be an impact player. Looks like that this week our #2 pick was THE Impact player, leading both teams in tackles.

I seriously doubt Zach Thomas led his team in sacks his first year. & he's definitely an impact player. Always has been from day one. He recorded 120 tackles & 2 sacks all year.

As a middle linebacker in the system he played in, he wasn't supposed to get a lot of sacks...... LT obviously was.

Darren Howard recorded 36 tackles(15 assists) & 11 sacks his rookie year with the Saints....... that's a definite impact player, and Mario is on track to hit those kinds of numbers.

Julius Peppers totalled 28 tackles & 12 sacks his rookie year. 0 tackles, 1 assist, 0 sacks in his first game against the Baltimore Ravens of 2002. So far, Mario is on track to match the rookie stats of this impact player.

Julius Peppers had 3 sacks against Detroit(rookie QB Joey Harrington, & Detroit has never been known for their offensive line), 3 sacks against Dallas(Dave Campo & who knows who at QB),

Those six are half his total.....

1 sack against Clevland, 1 sack against NewOrleans, poor teams with known QB protection problems that go back to the Reagan years.......

2 sacks in one game against Tampa Bay, 1 sack in the other game against Tampa Bay, & 1 sack against Michael Vick...... those might have been against decent offensive lines, since those were playoff teams, but I can't remember.

the point is, Demeco's 9 tackles don't compare directly to Mario's "impact" on the game. For all we know, Demeco may have only gotten 4 tackles had Mario not been there.

texan279
09-13-2006, 07:53 AM
If Mario gets a sack every other game, he'll end up with 8. Will that be OK?

I don't think Peppers had a sack until the 3rd or 4th game his rookie year and ended up with... what... 12?

And with Mario, it's not even about the number of sacks he gets. It's about the amount of chaos he creates and if he can create pressure or sacks for other players.

Let's say that Mario gets 6.5 sacks this year. Will that make him a bust? I mean... Bruce Smith was the 1st pick overall in 1985 and all he got was 6.5 sacks his rookie year and he was a "sack specialist". Was he a bust? He had 13 in his second year and I think he did OK after that.

Personally, I'm willing to give Mario a couple of years to develop. And before anyone says that they want a #1 overall pick to contribute immediately, there have been lots of #1 overalls who have taken some time to develop. Although most haven't (as in ever developed). (On a scary note, there are only 12 guys in the HOF that were drafted #1 overall.)

Read the full post where you quoted me from, all I was pointing out was what LT did his rookie season because someone said "LT wasn't LT his rookie season". I am not trying to dog Mario or compare him to LT. Did I say or imply Mario would be a bust in that post? No. And not that it really matters but Peppers in his second NFL game had 5 tackles, 3 sacks, one forced fumble, and one pass defended. Now THAT is wreaking havoc. And as far as creating pressure or chaos, no one on the defensive line did any of that from what I saw of the game but I am not stressing over it like some around here, yet. It's like some people expected Kubiak to turn a miracle overnight.

thunderkyss
09-13-2006, 08:05 AM
come on man dont just pick in choose what guys stats your gonna put up in a pathetic attempt to make mario look better and bush worse. just as easily you could put up guys like merriman and the game he had compare that one to mario. and there were plenty of big time backs who didnt perform as well as bush.. where alexanders and larry johnson numbers here but i guess since bushs' numbers were better your not gonna post those. weak........

You are absolutely right, I did pick and choose, and I did not include certain people that would make Mario look bad(Merriman is not one of them, as he is a LB in a 3-4), and I didn't use anyone to make Reggie look good.

We're talking about impact.... Alexander didn't make an impact, Larry Johnson didn't make an impact Sunday. Why should I include them?? I'm mentioning Runningbacks who made an impact on the game, and comparing them to Reggie Bush.......

I'm also comparing impact DEs, who had comparable stats to Mario's, and asking if they made an impact on their teams. You saw Darren Howard get handled by Spencer for 60 minutes....... is he a scrub?? did he make an impact?? is he going to be benched in favor of one of the second string DEs who did make a sack??

Is Michael Strahan not an impact DE?? is he not one of the best in the game??

My point is not that Mario is a better pick than Reggie, but that Mario did exactly what we thought he would, and exactly what we brought him in for. And sure as sh1t, we knew fans would be crying if he didn't get a sack, when none of the premier DEs get a sack everygame.

gwallaia
09-13-2006, 08:14 AM
Apples are better than oranges because apples are red.

real
09-13-2006, 08:15 AM
Why does it even have to be Reggie vs. Mario...that in itself is ridiculous....I like both of them, and I think both of them were put in ideal situations...Mario is in a perfect spot because he is raw, and fresh....He fits in perfectly with the rest of the raw and fresh Texans...In N.O Mario would have been expected to be the star of their defense from jump street...In houston he doesn't have to be....I think Mario would have suffered in New Orleans...The coaches in Houston seem to be making the right choices for all of our players to succeed...Bush is in the perfect position because He doesn't have to be a number one back or reciever because of duece and horn...He can be used like he was at USC, and be effective....I like both of these guys and wish both a long and successful career...I like football and I like to see great athletes perform....Please stop hating on RB, and please stop Hating on Mario...Both of these players haven't done anything short of what they were expected to do...GIVE...IT...A...REST

thunderkyss
09-13-2006, 08:34 AM
I want to see Mario make an impact on the game. I don't care about sacks or tackles. I want to see PRESSURE and impact. The stats fotr Reggie don't even really concern me. I I want to see how Mario will improve the 2nd worse defense in the leage from last season. He showed nada against Philly

Mario, Babin, & TJ were all in the backfield, especially to start the 4th Qtr....... McNabb had happy feet, sacked himself, and missed many a reciever. & The Eagles had to settle for a 42 yard field goal.

1-10-PHI27 (3:42) B.Westbrook left guard to PHI 28 for 1 yard (T.Johnson).
2-9-PHI28 (3:05) D.McNabb pass incomplete deep middle to R.Brown.
3-9-PHI28 (2:55) D.McNabb pass to D.Stallworth pushed ob at PHI 37 for 9 yards (L.Sanders).
1-10-PHI37 (2:37) B.Westbrook left end to PHI 42 for 5 yards (M.Greenwood).
2-5-PHI42 (1:58) B.Westbrook right tackle to HST 45 for 13 yards (G.Earl).
1-10-HOU45 (1:17) C.Buckhalter right tackle to HST 42 for 3 yards (M.Williams).
2-7-HOU42 (:32) B.Westbrook right end pushed ob at HST 33 for 9 yards (J.Simmons).
Fourth Quarter
Philadelphia Eagles continued...
1-10-HOU33 (15:00) B.Westbrook right guard to HST 32 for 1 yard (D.Ryans, M.Williams).
2-9-HOU32 (14:22) D.McNabb pass short right to L.Smith to HST 21 for 11 yards (D.Ryans).
1-10-HOU21 (13:43) D.McNabb pass incomplete deep right to H.Baskett.
2-10-HOU21 (13:38) D.McNabb sacked at HST 24 for -3 yards (A.Weaver).
3-13-HOU24 (12:59) (Shotgun) D.McNabb pass incomplete deep middle to D.Stallworth (L.Sanders).

1-10-PHI17 (8:56) B.Westbrook right tackle to PHI 17 for no gain (M.Greenwood).
2-10-PHI17 (8:10) D.McNabb pass short right to L.Smith to PHI 22 for 5 yards (D.Robinson).
3-5-PHI22 (7:30) D.McNabb pass short left to D.Stallworth to PHI 30 for 8 yards (L.Sanders).
1-10-PHI30 (6:51) B.Westbrook up the middle to PHI 32 for 2 yards (S.Payne).
2-8-PHI32 (6:13) D.McNabb pass short left to G.Lewis to PHI 41 for 9 yards (D.Robinson).
1-10-PHI41 (5:31) C.Buckhalter left end to PHI 43 for 2 yards (M.Greenwood).
2-8-PHI43 (4:49) C.Buckhalter right tackle to PHI 43 for no gain (D.Ryans, S.Orr).
3-8-PHI43 (4:04) D.McNabb pass short middle to G.Lewis to HST 49 for 8 yards (J.Simmons).
1-10-HOU49 (3:20) D.McNabb pass incomplete short left to D.Stallworth.
2-10-HOU49 (3:15) C.Buckhalter left end to HST 29 for 20 yards (S.Payne).
1-10-HOU29 (2:29) C.Buckhalter up the middle to HST 24 for 5 yards (G.Earl).
2-5-HOU24 (2:22) D.McNabb pass short middle to T.Tapeh to HST 20 for 4 yards (Thomas.Johnson).
3-1-HOU20 (1:54) T.Tapeh right guard to HST 18 for 2 yards (D.Ryans, G.Earl).

After watching the game a second time, I realized it wasn't our DL that was ineffective, because they were doing their job. All this crap about McNabb having all day, isn't true.......... he'd either throw the ball under 2 seconds, or he'd scramble...

Our LBs were our biggest liability, including Demeco......... Look at the play calling...... they run up the middle, run up the middle, for little or no gain, suck our LBs inside, then pop a screen for a 13 yard gain, or a 34 yard touchdown. Same thing with the big runs.... middle, middle, then start middle, bounce it to the outside. for a big gain...... then there was the play action fake that turned into a reverse fake........ everybody bit on the reverse, and WB goes 34 yards to the endzone.

Our DL, and our #1 overall pick had a great game, and did exactly what we wanted them to do. Our DBs & LBs can't cover for 2.8 seconds, that's why we lost.

Blake
09-13-2006, 09:17 AM
I dont like threads that focus on second guessing ourselves.

Lets focus on players that are on the team. Let ESPN fill you in on Reggie.

But while we are on Reggie, will everyone (ESPN) stop using his return yards as yards. That has always bothered me since people gave him so much credit for his 500 yards vs. frenso state. Not trying to say he had a bad game. Just that return yards are cheap.

real
09-13-2006, 09:29 AM
But while we are on Reggie, will everyone (ESPN) stop using his return yards as yards. That has always bothered me since people gave him so much credit for his 500 yards vs. frenso state. Not trying to say he had a bad game. Just that return yards are cheap.

stop hating...

Blake
09-13-2006, 09:31 AM
stop hating...

What is your problem? Is Reggie untouchable to you? Get over it.

real
09-13-2006, 09:52 AM
What is your problem? Is Reggie untouchable to you? Get over it.

no. he isn't untouchable..but how about waiting till he actually does something wrong before we criticize him...

Blake
09-13-2006, 12:02 PM
no. he isn't untouchable..but how about waiting till he actually does something wrong before we criticize him...

Who is criticising him? I am talking about ESPN, and other stat people who use his return yards as total yards. Its deceiving. Pay attention next time.thx

real
09-13-2006, 12:21 PM
Who is criticising him? I am talking about ESPN, and other stat people who use his return yards as total yards. Its deceiving. Pay attention next time.thx

But while we are on Reggie, will everyone (ESPN) stop using his return yards as yards. That has always bothered me since people gave him so much credit for his 500 yards vs. frenso state. Not trying to say he had a bad game. Just that return yards are cheap.

So Reggie is the only player that they've ever used "total yards" for? You were clearly trying to discredit Reggie because if the "lumping stats" is what truly makes you mad, you wouldn't have waited until they started lumping Reggies...just another pathetic attempt to discredit him...Don't be a wimp and beat around the bush...ha ha..get it BUSH....just admit that you don't like Reggie...you think he sucks....and you think people lump his stats to make him look better...just be honest...

Texan Ned
09-13-2006, 03:33 PM
I
the point is, Demeco's 9 tackles don't compare directly to Mario's "impact" on the game. For all we know, Demeco may have only gotten 4 tackles had Mario not been there.

According to the box score on NFL.com, Demeco Ryans led all tacklers with 12 tackles and 1 assist.

Goldeagle
09-13-2006, 05:09 PM
So Reggie is the only player that they've ever used "total yards" for? You were clearly trying to discredit Reggie because if the "lumping stats" is what truly makes you mad, you wouldn't have waited until they started lumping Reggies...just another pathetic attempt to discredit him...Don't be a wimp and beat around the bush...ha ha..get it BUSH....just admit that you don't like Reggie...you think he sucks....and you think people lump his stats to make him look better...just be honest...


Who else have they used it for? Marshal Faulk? Ismael?

No one has got every single yard lumped into his stats. Heck, they probaly lump in his walk to the dressing room at halftime.

As I said, Rudi Johnson will put up 160 just running against the Browns and I did not see Bushs name in the top list for total yards from Scrimmage. Personally, Westbrook deserves 10x more credit than Bush gets.

And I dont hate Bush, just hate his hype machine

Steersnqueers
09-13-2006, 07:34 PM
Who else have they used it for? Marshal Faulk? Ismael?

No one has got every single yard lumped into his stats. Heck, they probaly lump in his walk to the dressing room at halftime.

As I said, Rudi Johnson will put up 160 just running against the Browns and I did not see Bushs name in the top list for total yards from Scrimmage. Personally, Westbrook deserves 10x more credit than Bush gets.



Bush is not the lead rusher for the saints and might never be.. R. Johnson is for the Bengals.

Reggie had 14 carries for 61 yards, Deuce had 22 carries for 90 yards and Johnson had 28 carries for 96 yards.

(granted the saints played the browns and not the chiefs, but going off of last years defensive rankings and not one game of this year.. Cle was ranked 16 while KC was ranked 26 - http://www.coachescorner.com/n_input/nnweb/scores/header_nfl_def_rank.htm)

I dont believe the saints plan on using Reggie anytime soon as a number one back. Not sure how you can compare the two?

As far as comparing Mario to Reggie.. as others have said.. thats going to be tough to measure. However.. we can take a look at rookie season for some of the past greats. Just very important to keep in mind how these backs were used.. were they the #1 RB or were they used as Reggie is? If Reggie surpasses these guys in his rookie year.. while not being the top back for the saints, what can we conclude for his first year? (merely speculation.. not necessarily lookin for an answer but please do share an opinion if you have one)


Gale Sayers

14 Games: 166 Attempts, 867 Yards, 5.2 YPC, 14 TD
29 Receptions, 507 Yards, 17.5 YPC, 6 TD

Barry Sanders

15 Games: 280 Attempts, 1470 Yards, 5.2 YPC, 14 TD
24 Receptions, 282 Yards, 11.8 YPC, 0 TD

Walter Payton

13 Games: 196 Attempts, 679 Yards, 3.5 YPC, 7 TD
33 Receptions, 213 Yards, 6.5 YPC, 0 TD

Emmitt Smith

16 Games: 241 Attempts, 937 Yards, 3.9 YPC, 11 TD
24 Receptions, 228 Yards, 9.5 YPC, 0 TD

Jim Brown

12 Games: 202 Attempts, 942 Yards, 4.7 YPC, 9 TD
16 Receptions, 55 Yards, 3.4 YPC, 1 TD

O.J. Simpson

13 Games: 181 Attempts, 697 Yards, 3.9 YPC, 2 TD
30 Receptions, 343 Yards, 11.4 YPC, 3 TD

And, for the sake of comparison to a modern day player, here are LaDainian Tomlinson 's and Caddy's stats in their first year:

LT:
16 Games: 339 Attempts, 1236 Yards, 3.6 YPC, 10 TD
59 Receptions, 367 Yards, 6.2 YPC, 0 TD


Caddy:
14 Games, 290 Attempts, 1178 Yards, 4.1 YPC, 6 TD
20 Receptions, 81 Yards, 4.0 YPC, 0 TD

Texan Ned
09-17-2006, 06:09 PM
Lets follow these two all season and see who is most productive and more worthy of being THE #1 pick. I mean seriously, are the Saints THAT much better than the Texans?

Game 1

Mario 2 Tackles 1 Assist 0 Sacks

Reggie 61 Rush Yds 58 Rec Yds 0 TD's

Season to Date

Mario 2/1/0
Reggie 61/58/0

Game 2

Mario 2 Tackles 0 Assist 0 Sacks
Reggie 5 Rush yds 68 Rc Yds 0 TD

Season to Date

Mario 4 Tackles 1 Assist 0 Sacks
Reggie 66 Rush Yds 126 Rec Yds 0 TD

TexansLucky13
09-17-2006, 06:54 PM
Mario looks completely lost out there

Only when you close your eyes, buster.

underdog65
09-17-2006, 07:03 PM
I saw Mario applying pressure all day. He still gets burned when running plays come his way but atleast I didn't see him standing around like last week. With more time, he will learn when to stay at home and when to rush the passer. He definitely showed progress from last week. I guess that is all you can ask from him. Constant improvement. So far in New Orleans it appears that DM is the good running back. Reggie dances too much.

Numbskull
09-17-2006, 07:05 PM
Lets compare the seasons of Reggie Bush and Mario Williams.

Reggie Bush
Splitting time with Deuce McAllister.

21 Carries - 72 yard, 3.4 yard average, 0 TDs
15 Receptions - 120 yards, 8 yard average, 0 TDs
Saints Offense - Sure to be in the top 10, after racking up 706 yards in 2 games.
Saints 2-0 and 1st place in the NFC South


Mario Williams
In on every play at DE and on occassion at DT.

5 Tackles. 4 Solo, 1 Assist. 0 Sacks
Texans Defense Ranked 32nd in the NFL giving up 956 yards in 2 games. PATHETIC!!!
Texans 0-2 and looking to be in the hunt to blow the #1 pick again this year.


Yep. The Texans really did good on that one! Didn't Charlie Casserly rationalize the MW pick by saying that Reggie Bush couldn't stop Peyton Manning? Well, its obvious that Mario couldn't either: 26/38 - 400 yards and 3 TDs.

underdog65
09-17-2006, 07:11 PM
That's right. The saints have played the Browns which s**k, and today the Packers who got blown out last week by the Bears. He sure looks good against the bottom dwellers in the league. I bet he would get better numbers playing against us right now too. Like I said, Deuce is the better back and it has been shown on the last two games the Saints have played.

coachdent
09-17-2006, 07:15 PM
Lets compare the seasons of Reggie Bush and Mario Williams.

Reggie Bush
Splitting time with Deuce McAllister.

21 Carries - 72 yard, 3.4 yard average, 0 TDs
15 Receptions - 120 yards, 8 yard average, 0 TDs
Saints Offense - Sure to be in the top 10, after racking up 706 yards in 2 games.
Saints 2-0 and 1st place in the NFC South


Mario Williams
In on every play at DE and on occassion at DT.

5 Tackles. 4 Solo, 1 Assist. 0 Sacks
Texans Defense Ranked 32nd in the NFL giving up 956 yards in 2 games. PATHETIC!!!
Texans 0-2 and looking to be in the hunt to blow the #1 pick again this year.


Yep. The Texans really did good on that one! Didn't Charlie Casserly rationalize the MW pick by saying that Reggie Bush couldn't stop Peyton Manning? Well, its obvious that Mario couldn't either: 26/38 - 400 yards and 3 TDs.


3.4 yards per carry in the NFL is bad. 8 yards a catch is bad. The Saints success has been more about Drew Brees than it has Reggie Bush. Reggie is a great player, but using his stats is not the angle you need to take. They are below average.

I've got news for you too. Reggie would not have stopped 26-for-38 either.

Mario looked better, but not a finished product. Disappointed with the lack of explosiveness. I thought he would be far more explosive off the edge. Instead, he seems to be in a shell at times and just keeping his responsibility. Other times he is easily influenced up the field. He was caught several times today on counters.

RB vs Mario is a tired, useless arguement. I want the Texans to get better. They didn't today.

The one positive is that Carr is making better decisions with the ball. Hopefully he will be able to survive the season. Losing Spencer hurts.

Brandon420tx
09-17-2006, 07:22 PM
:deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse :deadhorse

Rinse and repeat.

coachdent
09-17-2006, 07:23 PM
Rinse and repeat.


Babin indeed looks like a changed man. Playing with quite the engine. Travis Johnson played ok as well.

Numbskull
09-17-2006, 09:18 PM
There is no discussion....

We shouldn't be discussing stats because Reggie Bush is easily the better player and the one yall should have picked... Yall are terrible on both sides of the ball and the only reason yall are not near the bottom of the league once again in offense is because David Carr threw 3 garbage time touchdowns in the 4th quarter against 2nd and 3rd string defense when you were down by 27 points.

Reggie Bush has shown up and moved the chains each game.. something like 8-9 first down runs and catches in two games... Mario.. 4 solo, 1 assist... he hasn't been a presence or a force.. he's been nothing... he has not changed any game whatsoever.. the defense is still god awful and ranked 32nd in the league. If Casserly really wanted a player to change your defense, he should have drafted AJ Hawk who helped shut down the Saints run game today. Atleast AJ has a pulse and doesn't take plays off.

Its not yalls fault that Charlie Casserly is a complete dumbarse, but yall are looking even dumber by trying to defend it by bashing on Reggie.

The only stat that matters:

New Orleans Saints: 2-0
Houston Texans: 0-2

Wolf
09-17-2006, 09:19 PM
bush has as many TD's as mario has sacks.

Texan Ned
09-17-2006, 10:41 PM
bush has as many TD's as mario has sacks.

Good Point

kfranco_utexas
09-17-2006, 11:20 PM
Good one battle red. :francis:

texplayer2
09-18-2006, 06:45 AM
3.4 yards per carry in the NFL is bad. 8 yards a catch is bad. The Saints success has been more about Drew Brees than it has Reggie Bush. Reggie is a great player, but using his stats is not the angle you need to take. They are below average.

I've got news for you too. Reggie would not have stopped 26-for-38 either.

Mario looked better, but not a finished product. Disappointed with the lack of explosiveness. I thought he would be far more explosive off the edge. Instead, he seems to be in a shell at times and just keeping his responsibility. Other times he is easily influenced up the field. He was caught several times today on counters.

RB vs Mario is a tired, useless arguement. I want the Texans to get better. They didn't today.

The one positive is that Carr is making better decisions with the ball. Hopefully he will be able to survive the season. Losing Spencer hurts.

The fact is that with Bush in New Orleans it takes the pressure off Brees and puts it on Bush. Bush is the one who will get the accolades or the blame. He is the face of the team and it allows the other personnel on the team to focus on being good. Carr has no such protection. If we lose(a lot) he will be blamed, weather it is his fault or not. Mario will be given years to prove he was the right pick (at least by the FO).

thunderkyss
09-18-2006, 07:43 AM
The fact is that with Bush in New Orleans it takes the pressure off Brees and puts it on Bush. Bush is the one who will get the accolades or the blame. He is the face of the team and it allows the other personnel on the team to focus on being good. Carr has no such protection. If we lose(a lot) he will be blamed, weather it is his fault or not. Mario will be given years to prove he was the right pick (at least by the FO).

and it's hard to blame him when he has QB ratings over a hundred in our two losses........ David's handling the pressure just fine, & doesn't need anyone helping with "pressure"

donato
09-22-2006, 07:57 PM
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedia/photo_gallery/0609/gallery.nfl.big.disappointments/content.2.html

Wolf
09-23-2006, 10:41 AM
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/chair/arm47.html

Reggie Bust? :stirpot:

Dr. Toro
09-23-2006, 11:22 AM
I said some time last spring that I think eventually Reggie will be a full-time receiver. He's built like one and running in the NFL these days is about patience, hitting the hole hard, and getting that extra yard or two after contact. LaDanian Tomlinson is the prototype... the breakaway speed gets him on SportsCenter, but the hard work and tough running will get him into Canton.

So if people wanted Gale Sayers, they'll be disappointed, but he's a lethal slot receiver.

BTW, I'm really sick of this total yards non-sense... if that's the metric, guys like Koren Robinson and Wes Welker would be superstars. Return yards are free yards, you could get 6 kick returns at 20 yards per, rack up 120 yards and have done nothing but benefit from a bad defense.

All that being said, Reggie is a great fit in NO, with Colston posting up in the red zone, McAlister grinding D's, Brees being efficient, and Horn doing the #1/possession thing. Reggie would have not been the answer for this team. The guy is an excellent slot receiver/third down back/ return man.

donato
09-24-2006, 02:50 PM
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/chair/arm47.html

Reggie Bust? :stirpot:

lol:

That's a Texans site. What do you think they'd say? Mario has only shown the makings of a bust.

donato
09-24-2006, 02:54 PM
NO would be better with Stallworth and A.J. Hawk instead of Bush and Simoneau, but it has been brought to my attention the Saints feared Stallworth leaving after this year as a free agent and them getting nothing in return. That apparently was a big part of the reason for trading Stallworth. To me that brings up other questions about the future of Bush in NO.

It's deeper than just that. First of all, the coaching staff is in love with Marques Colston and he's shown why they should be. Secondly, Stallworth has problems staying healthy, has problems catching the ball, and has a poor work ethic. He is a great guy and can be explosive at times no doubt. Also it wasn't so much that he was going to leave next year as much as the Saints weren't going to want to pay so much money to someone that hasn't lived up to his draft status. Furthermore A.J. Hawk has looked terrible thus far. The third rounder the Saints got for Stallworth and the so-so yet serviceable Simoneau is more than worth it. Nobody was saying Simoneau was a long-term solution...the trade was more about the draft pick. Bush signed a six year contract so nobody has to worry about him going anywhere for a long time.

tulexan
09-24-2006, 03:06 PM
Just a quick question.

Are we going to hear non stop on sportscenter about Maurice Drew's 250 all purpose yards today? Or are all purpose yards only counted for Reggie?

Wolf
10-08-2006, 02:42 PM
bush 6 carries 15 yards no tds
bush 9rec 44 yards no tds
2 punt returns 10 yards

gtexan02
10-08-2006, 03:12 PM
bush 6 carries 15 yards no tds
bush 9rec 44 yards no tds
2 punt returns 10 yards

Bush 9 carries for 20 yards
11 receptions for 63 yards
3 returns for 75 yards, 1 td