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Barkley
09-10-2006, 04:22 PM
OK....I drank the kool aid when we drafted Mario thinking he might be a stud. The first mistake of the new coaching staff. HE HAS NOT DONE ONE THING TO IMPRESS, and our defense gave up over 400 yards. Nice F%$#ing game Texans. We look like last seasonm. TEERRIBLE!

0-6 here we come

TexanSam
09-10-2006, 04:23 PM
So do you judge every player on his first game?

Wolf
09-10-2006, 04:25 PM
I think mario had more tackles and the same amount of sacks as Peppers..

however. did Carolina move Peppers around like we did with Mario?

I recall mario was at DT on some 3rd down situations.
just curious

Divebomb
09-10-2006, 04:26 PM
WOW mario is a Bust??? Dang, he has played one game and we should already give him the boot. he was double teamed 90% of the game but he is a bust. O.K. let me guess, no one in the history of the NFL has had 60 yards rushing and 40 yards recieving. Bush for the Hll of Fame!!!!!!!!!!!!

southtexan
09-10-2006, 04:27 PM
I can understand your anger, heck I'm angry too but you can't call anybody a bust after one game.

TexanSam
09-10-2006, 04:30 PM
What I saw from our defense today made me SICK! This team weill be lucky to win 1 of ita first 6 games.

If they play like the way they did today, that is true. I don't think they will though. I've confidence in the coaching and the players that they'll make adjustments as necessary to play better and better.

Wolf
09-10-2006, 04:30 PM
Nope, but when i see a defensive player who was drafted #1 overall (over a once in a lifetime back) and he does ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING in 3 preseason games and 1 regular season game, I am going to be concerned. Not only did he have 0 sacks and only 3 tackles, but our supposedly improved defense game up 400 yards.

ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!

Adrian Peterson came out last season?

southtexan
09-10-2006, 04:32 PM
I have to agree with on the defense, our defense didn't look good at all. No running game either.

tulexan
09-10-2006, 04:32 PM
WOW mario is a Bust??? Dang, he has played one game and we should already give him the boot. he was double teamed 90% of the game but he is a bust. O.K. let me guess, no one in the history of the NFL has had 60 yards rushing and 40 yards recieving. Bush for the Hll of Fame!!!!!!!!!!!!


Westbrook had more yards from scrimmage: 71 yards rushing, 61 yards receiving (excluding return yards) and a TD today.

Texan
09-10-2006, 04:35 PM
OK....I drank the kool aid when we drafted Mario thinking he might be a stud. The first mistake of the new coaching staff. HE HAS NOT DONE ONE THING TO IMPRESS, and our defense gave up over 400 yards. Nice F%$#ing game Texans. We look like last seasonm. TEERRIBLE!

0-6 here we come


Ridiculous comment. Way too early to tell. You're railing on the defense which did not play that well, but you should be just as concerned about the offense. No running attack and they did zip in the 2nd half.

It's going to be another tough year. We have a tough schedule and are still a below average team.

texflex513
09-10-2006, 04:37 PM
If they play like the way they did today, that is true. I don't think they will though. I've confidence in the coaching and the players that they'll make adjustments as necessary to play better and better.

I agree...nothing like good ole game film to study and learn from week to week.

HomeBred_Texan
09-10-2006, 04:39 PM
Dang, he has played one game and we should already give him the boot. he was double teamed 90% of the game but he is a bust.
Sorry, but I need to correct you there. He was NOT double teamed 90% of the time at all. I sit up in the end zone at the 500's and focused on him allot. Didn't see that at all. Did catch him however standing around during the play doing absolutely nothing. Like he was lost or something. He did not rush, looked like he was suppose to drop back in coverage, but didn't. I am not a coach and do not know his assignment, but I am pretty sure a DE is not suppose to be there standing around...

No I do not consider him a bust at all. He needs to be taught technique right now and quickly. He has not gotten past the learning curve. Only time will tell on this, not 1 game and 3 pre-season games...

TheCD
09-10-2006, 04:39 PM
Nope, but when i see a defensive player who was drafted #1 overall (over a once in a lifetime back) and he does ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING in 3 preseason games and 1 regular season game, I am going to be concerned. Not only did he have 0 sacks and only 3 tackles, but our supposedly improved defense game up 400 yards.

ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!


Understand something here. 1 player is not a result of a defense giving up 400 yards in a game.

The responsibility mostly falls on our DB's who gave up 311 yards passing. The defensive line did a decent job with stuffing the run in the beginning of the game...but as usually happens with us, the offense began to figure out how to pick apart our defense as the game wore on.

Our DB's did an absolutely horrendous job of tackling...it made me wonder if they thought they were playing flag football with how many times they'd reach around a guy's waist and slide off. Even Dante Robinson was being manhandled all day.


The fact is that we've got new systems for both our offense and our defense. It takes time for players to adjust to an entirely new system. Just be patient and everything will turn out ok.

Divebomb
09-10-2006, 04:40 PM
NEWS FLASH!!! NEWS FLASH!!! Peppers had 3 total tackles today and Carolina Fans are screaming for a trade because they feel he is a BUST!!! Only 3 tackles and no sacks. Peppers is washed up! LOL You Bush Homers are so sad!

Titan "Tack" Fan
09-10-2006, 04:44 PM
Bustio Williams



HAHAHHAHHAAHHAAHHAAHAHHAAHHAA

BattleRedRaider
09-10-2006, 04:46 PM
Bustio Williams

Barkley: HAHAHA! THIS PLAY ON WORDS WILL SURELY ENTERTAIN THE TEXANS FANS!

Johnny Utah
09-10-2006, 04:47 PM
II recall mario was at DT on some 3rd down situations.
just curious

Not only that, but Mario was taken out of the game on several pass rushing 3rd down situations.

tulexan
09-10-2006, 04:49 PM
Adrian Peterson came out last season?

Adrian Peterson will be the next once in a lifetime back, then Jamal Charles and Steve Slaton, then someone else, then someone else, then someone else, then someone else,....

tbell ncsu
09-10-2006, 04:50 PM
someone want to explain to me why a titans fan is on this board talking crap about mario? anyone see them get their butts handed to them by chad pennington and the jets? what about vince young promptly throwing a pick as soon as he enters the game? oh, then kerry collins... hahahaha!

CMoak1982
09-10-2006, 04:59 PM
Our safety's were the reason we gave up that much yardage, the corners did decent jobs, sanders needs to hold on to the ball, and Williams was doubled alot, he needs to stay at end not DT. with that oline philly has you need mario in space not doubled by 350 pound guys. O-line of ours looked like the same old same old, Carr was responsible for maybe 1 sack.

PapaL
09-10-2006, 05:01 PM
We should really have a 15 rule before your able to start a thread. Help us keep all the sane people sane and all the others....well away.

You mean Mario didnt set the season sack record today? What are the chances??

bigtex77
09-10-2006, 05:03 PM
Adrian Peterson will be the next once in a lifetime back, then Jamal Charles and Steve Slaton, then someone else, then someone else, then someone else, then someone else,....

I guess it depends on how long you "lifetime" spans. My Dad is 64 and has seen Sayers, Sanders and now Bush. He has told me several times that anything Bush can do the other two could as well.

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
09-10-2006, 05:07 PM
Wow, only first game and you have already wrote off Mario.....makes no sense give the guy a chance, glad to see the panthers did not write off Peppers on his first game.....


GO TEXANS !

HJam72
09-10-2006, 05:11 PM
Our safety's were the reason we gave up that much yardage, the corners did decent jobs, sanders needs to hold on to the ball, and Williams was doubled alot, he needs to stay at end not DT. with that oline philly has you need mario in space not doubled by 350 pound guys. O-line of ours looked like the same old same old, Carr was responsible for maybe 1 sack.

The problem with Mario at DE is all he does is bull rush. I don't get to see nearly as much of all that as I'd like, but I have yet even once to see him do something other than bull rush or go around--waaay around. He demands double teams with his bull rush, so it seems to me that he does better at DT, taking on two and allowing somebody else to break free. Williams just isn't going to get sacks until he learns some moves for a change or some idiot coach decides not to double team him for too long, which ain't gonna happen. I don't mean to be so argumentative or imply that your idea is unintelligent, but I'd rather him take up those 2 350 pounders than see him taken out by a single RT because he unsuccessfully tries to out speed him.

Where was Peek in this game? Babin had no sacks and I don't even remember seeing Peek get any pressure at all. That's with 2 DTs on Mario? I think our RDEs need to get the lead out. The pass rush in this game was nowhere to be found and McNabb looked like a kid in a candy store. Yes, our safeties played like crap, but they weren't THAT bad.

Second Honeymoon
09-10-2006, 05:11 PM
Sorry, but I need to correct you there. He was NOT double teamed 90% of the time at all. I sit up in the end zone at the 500's and focused on him allot. Didn't see that at all. Did catch him however standing around during the play doing absolutely nothing. Like he was lost or something. He did not rush, looked like he was suppose to drop back in coverage, but didn't. I am not a coach and do not know his assignment, but I am pretty sure a DE is not suppose to be there standing around...

No I do not consider him a bust at all. He needs to be taught technique right now and quickly. He has not gotten past the learning curve. Only time will tell on this, not 1 game and 3 pre-season games...

Yup. He was only double teamed when he was the point of attack for the offense or if they were in a max protection scheme. In other words, contrary to the myopians that populate this board, he was not game planned for and he was not treated any different than Weaver, Johnson, or Smith..regardless of position. But we must placate our anger by remembering that Mario was picked for the future of the franchise and not a quick jolt of pub and energy. Mario was a long term pick for the greater good by their own admission. Let's give the guy a 1/4 of the time we have given Carr before we start calling him a bust. That being said, I am worried that he lacks heart and love for competition, victory, and the game.

doug from the woodlands

rmartin65
09-10-2006, 05:14 PM
You cant call a guy a bust after 1 game, 4 games or even their first season. College and the NFL are very diferent, and some players take longer to adjust then others.

RiotCommander
09-10-2006, 05:19 PM
I wont talk about Mario, I think he is trying, but not many people get to McNabb.


The thing I think we should be focused on is what did work. Carr looked good at times. and DeMeco really flew around out there.

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
09-10-2006, 05:22 PM
I did not see Peek out there much at all today, a couple times......Mario is the real deal, just give him some time....today was his first NFL game I'm sure he had the jitters today.......I can say one good thing about most of us on the boards, that we always support our team no matter how bad we play, and even coming off a 2-14 season........there still is light at the end of the tunnell....my oldest daughter asked me today, ( Daddy why do the Texans always lose ? ) I told her Rome was not built in one day, and that when we start winning it will be better that ever to live here in Houston, and to say that I'm a Texan.......:texflag:

# 5
09-10-2006, 05:25 PM
You cant call a guy a bust after 1 game, 4 games or even their first season. College and the NFL are very diferent, and some players take longer to adjust then others.

Amen to that!!

Bruce Smith was the #1 pick in the 1985 Draft by the Buffalo Bills. He had 6.5 sacks his rookie year. http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/stats.nsf/Annual/1985-buf

This just proves that a rookie season, much less one game does not define a player's career.

Vinny
09-10-2006, 05:30 PM
It's too early to call Mario a bust, but I just got back from the game and watched him play every line spot...and he sucks. I hope he gets better. I have to watch my taped game to comment further, but he was very disappointing.

Texian
09-10-2006, 05:37 PM
Well if you look at Peppers, Strahan and Freeny they average 3 tackles a game and 1/2 sack a game. Mario is off by 1/2 a sack even while playing a lot of DT. As hard as it may be, you half to give this team 1/2 season before making any judgements. Throwing in the towel after the 1st game is ludicrous. New management, new coaches, new O & D systems and your ticked because they lost to a team who has been to 4 out 5 of the last NFC Championship games and went to the Super Bowl 2 years ago. Gimme a break, you must be 12 years old.

TexansFight
09-10-2006, 05:37 PM
Agree completely. Mark it down guys and I will be glad to eat crow if I am wrong. Mario WIlliams is/will be a bust. The number 1 pick in the draft had ZERO impact on today's game. That is the last thing you want since the team picking first needs IMMEDIATE help from such pick. I was watching him all game long and he was in very few plays. Could never get disengaged from being blocked. Also please do not try to spin this as saying he was double teamed or opened up other opportunities for other D-linemen. Mario was effectively handled one on one and was virtually never double teamed. Our front 7 produced no pass rush which is really scary considering that is supposedly a strength of our team.

We are no closer to being a championship football team than our first year. In fact I think we are in worse shape since we have blown all of the expansion added picks that we got..

Txn_in_Oki
09-10-2006, 05:41 PM
To start a thread and call a rook d-lineman a bust is completely absurd. Three letters for you Barkley... D-D-D.

Vinny
09-10-2006, 05:42 PM
Also please do not try to spin this as saying he was double teamed or opened up other opportunities for other D-linemen. Mario was effectively handled one on one and was virtually never double teamed. ..
He was easily blocked by one man and didn't even need to be doubled...and wasn't very often. It didn't matter if it was a Guard or a Tackle, no matter who was blocking him dominated him. He is only good running to the ball right now. If you run right at him he is defenseless. Right now he looks like a pure workout warrior. This is going to be a long year.

RTP2110
09-10-2006, 05:48 PM
Bustio Williams

I'm hesitant to throw this one out there, but I came up with SORRY-o Williams.

texanbychoice
09-10-2006, 06:01 PM
I think I heard his name once...WE should have gotten ANYONE else, if today was what we will see from him...

CMoak1982
09-10-2006, 06:09 PM
Ends need several plays to set up moves, with his athleticism it would be smarter to keep him out in space. With him at DT thats all you get is the bull rush. I watched him on every single play he was in, and he was doubled, not 90% of the time but a good number, if it wasn't a true double it was a chip or a wall off block. I'd say a good 40-50%. The rest of our d-line was held up pretty good too. You're talking about the biggest line in the NFL, for this game it would be smarter to use Mario on the edges. As a whole our defense was out of place several times and couldn't get any pressure to force bad throws, you can't pin that on one person, we we're outplayed and out coached when they had the ball in the 2,3,4 quarters. They screened at the right times, they play faked at the right times, all in all we were man handled when our d was on the field as a collective whole.

Porky
09-10-2006, 06:12 PM
Williams was horrible. No two ways about it. He has a very, very, very, long ways to go if he will ever be more than another in a long line of Dline busts as overall #1's. I agree with Barkley, Vinny and the others. He was totally manhandled today, and was a huge ZERO, ZILCH, NADA. Kubiak's hubris will likely come back to haunt him, and may end up being his undoing. It's too early to label him a bust, but I do believe I just saw a fat woman taking voice lessons in the Texans dressing room. :brickwall

dat_boy_yec
09-10-2006, 06:13 PM
I just got back from the game myself and I am P.O.'d at alot of things that I saw. Even though I am still trying to dissect everything I saw, this is my initial reaction. What the hell is Smith thinking, I saw alot of plays where I'm hoping this is the case Mario would simply engage the lineman and try to look over his shoulder to see what was happening. It looked like he was trying to play containment, but to me it looked like crap. I refuse to believe Mario doesn't have any other moves besides the bull-rush and it pisses me off that I don't ever see him even try it. I don't know maybe he's taking to much advice from Weaver who himself hasn't shown himself as much of a pass-rush specialist. I saw him standing around trying to orient himself a couple of times as well and I'm thinking WTF. The first quarter I was standing up and cheering, but the final few minutes I felt like I was gonna be sick and I don't drink. Moving Mario around in the pre-season was all well and good as expiremental, but this is ridicolous now. I didn't comment on everything, I thought was a mistake this off-season. Okay, I lie, I did vent a little bit after the draft, but seeing this game was simply frustrating. Damn, Mario get your **** together man.

CMoak1982
09-10-2006, 06:22 PM
I don't know why ya'll are singling him out, the DLINE as a whole did not play well, we do play a little to much outside contain but that just comes with PHILLY athletic QB who can run, and a screen throwing team with Westbrook, you have to stay home to do that, granted it didn't work but I understand the playcalling, don't like it but understand it. There are 3 first day picks starting on the Dline, and a 9 year vet., and they all looked bad. Philly has a good oline, but not so good as to where we can't get any pressure. All in all the D looked bad our oline looked bad our TE/RB blocking looked bad.

Napa Auto Parts
09-10-2006, 06:32 PM
I hear alot of peppers please nobody mention his name he's another of the great talent that we let slide thanks to good old casserly but its to early to judge mario its one game some other bust have been with us going on 5 4 3 years now and we still give them a chance.:hides:

thunderkyss
09-10-2006, 06:40 PM
I think mario had more tackles and the same amount of sacks as Peppers..

however. did Carolina move Peppers around like we did with Mario?

I recall mario was at DT on some 3rd down situations.
just curious


In the long run, I think this might be a benefit to us...... but if we are going to eventually get a Tackle that performs, then I think we're wasting our time, and unnecessarily hurting Mario's progress.

He needs to play one man as much as possible, to learn his tendancies, and to set him up for later plays.....

LBC_Justin
09-10-2006, 06:45 PM
Nope, but when i see a defensive player who was drafted #1 overall (over a once in a lifetime back) and he does ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING in 3 preseason games and 1 regular season game, I am going to be concerned. Not only did he have 0 sacks and only 3 tackles, but our supposedly improved defense game up 400 yards.

ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!
there is nothing "once in a lifetime" about Reggie Bush. He is a good running back.

Defensive End is a position that requires patience. But it is also a postion that players for you team for a long long time. Odds are Reggie Bush will be sitting in the Fox or NBC studios as a retired player talking about what a great game Mario Williams had that day.

thunderkyss
09-10-2006, 06:46 PM
Ends need several plays to set up moves, with his athleticism it would be smarter to keep him out in space. With him at DT thats all you get is the bull rush. I watched him on every single play he was in, and he was doubled, not 90% of the time but a good number, if it wasn't a true double it was a chip or a wall off block. I'd say a good 40-50%. The rest of our d-line was held up pretty good too. You're talking about the biggest line in the NFL, for this game it would be smarter to use Mario on the edges. As a whole our defense was out of place several times and couldn't get any pressure to force bad throws, you can't pin that on one person, we we're outplayed and out coached when they had the ball in the 2,3,4 quarters. They screened at the right times, they play faked at the right times, all in all we were man handled when our d was on the field as a collective whole.

I agree..... when I heard we were going to move Mario inside on certain plays, in certain situations, I had no idea that meant on every 3rd & Long...... or that we'll be shuffling our DL between every snap(well almost). With this game plan, I can't see our guys getting into rhythm....... or it's going to take them much longer to figure it out.

kfranco_utexas
09-10-2006, 06:48 PM
"Williams was horrible. No two ways about it. He has a very, very, very, long ways to go if he will ever be more than another in a long line of Dline busts as overall #1's. I agree with Barkley, Vinny and the others. He was totally manhandled today, and was a huge ZERO, ZILCH, NADA. Kubiak's hubris will likely come back to haunt him, and may end up being his undoing. It's too early to label him a bust, but I do believe I just saw a fat woman taking voice lessons in the Texans dressing room. "


Couldn't have said it better myself. He looked extremely slow.:brickwall

After watching Bush, oh my.:brickwall

phan1
09-10-2006, 06:55 PM
I think it's safe to say after this game is that he will not be an instant impact guy on this defense a la Julius Peppers. Right now, he looks like a big guy playing the DT position at DE. He has no finesse game, and he didn't even look that great against the run either. Hopefully it won't take him long to find out he can't overpower guys like he did in college. And what's worse, it doesn't look like he's that fast. People have talked about his speed but I'm not seeing it. He doesn't come off the edge like a top tier DE and that's what really worries me. You don't coach speed.

And it's not about numbers either. No DE puts up big numbers, but you can definitely tell how they impact the game. Mario Williams did not impact the game today... I'm not willing to say he's a bust, but I think he's in for a long season. For all the crap we went through to get this DL together, they played VERY DISSAPPOINTING, especially considering they're supposed to be our strong suite.

Second Honeymoon
09-10-2006, 06:58 PM
It's too early to call Mario a bust, but I just got back from the game and watched him play every line spot...and he sucks. I hope he gets better. I have to watch my taped game to comment further, but he was very disappointing.

Don't put yourself through it, Vinny. Mario played with little or no heart and was standing up at the end of most plays yards away from the action/tackle. Weaver and dare I say Babin looked good at times....oh and Dunta and Sanders both looked horrible.

as for your boy DeMeco, he looks like Houston's next Al Smith. He is already getting some love from me as the best player on our team...offense or defense.

Oh and to the lobotomy victim that claimed Carr was the best player on the field today, I must ask what you are smoking because I have been smoking for years and have never been that stoned before.

Top Performers
DeMeco and Moulds

Worst Performers
Dunta, Sanders, Carr (inconsistent as usual)

Jury Still Out
Mario, Lundy, and Kubiak

Goldeagle
09-10-2006, 07:01 PM
I am expecting more from him sooner rather than later. I was a D brick fan or trading the pick, he better do something fast!

kfranco_utexas
09-10-2006, 07:01 PM
So far.
Bush 1
Williams 0:wild:

barzilla
09-10-2006, 07:03 PM
The number 1 pick in the draft had ZERO impact on today's game. That is the last thing you want since the team picking first needs IMMEDIATE help from such pick.

Hmmmm, this is interesting. Let's think about this one. Let's take a look at the last ten and see if there really was an immediate positive impact.

2005--Alex Smith

Might have been the worst rookie performance in awhile. All he did today is throw for nearly 300 yards and lead his team to 27 points.

2004--Eli Manning

Not all that good in his rookie season, but I guess he did do some things good in his second season.

2003--Carson Palmer

Did not play a single down his rookie year. We know the rest of the story.

2002--David Carr

The jury is still out on this one.

2001--Michael Vick

Did some things his rookie year. A lot more since.

2000--Courtney Brown

Bust.

1999--Tim Couch

Bust.

1998--Peyton Manning

Threw more picks than TDs his first year. The rest is history.

1997--Orlando Pace

Five time Pro Bowler

1996--Keyshawn Johnson

He was good, but he's not THAT good.

Okay, what do we see? I see five legitimate Pro Bowl performers at their position but none of them did that their first year. Seems to me that we are not only being too hard on the kid but we are also misunderstanding the goal of the first overall pick. If our goal was to get the best player for 2006 it would be Bush hands down. That should NEVER be the goal. Your goal is to find the guy that will have the kind of career that will dramatically change the fortunes of the franchise for a decade or more.

While Mario may or may not be that guy, we all should agree that this year will not determine that one way or the other. Of course, this list also shows that the first overall pick is not the lead pipe cinch it seems to be.

Second Honeymoon
09-10-2006, 07:04 PM
I'm hesitant to throw this one out there, but I came up with SORRY-o Williams.

After watching him and his lack of fire...I nominate

Snore-io Williams
Bore-io Williams

but my personal favorite I came up with is...*drum rolls*

Stupor Mario....as in 'dude played like he was in a drunken stupor'

Doug From The Woodlands

kfranco_utexas
09-10-2006, 07:09 PM
What makes you think that he may not end up like these guys?

2000--Courtney Brown

Bust.

1999--Tim Couch

Bust.
:yikes:

HomeBred_Texan
09-10-2006, 07:14 PM
Don't put yourself through it, Vinny. Mario played with little or no heart and was standing up at the end of most plays yards away from the action/tackle. Weaver and dare I say Babin looked good at times....oh and Dunta and Sanders both looked horrible.

as for your boy DeMeco, he looks like Houston's next Al Smith. He is already getting some love from me as the best player on our team...offense or defense.

Oh and to the lobotomy victim that claimed Carr was the best player on the field today, I must ask what you are smoking because I have been smoking for years and have never been that stoned before.

Top Performers
DeMeco and Moulds

Worst Performers
Dunta, Sanders, Carr (inconsistent as usual)

Jury Still Out
Mario, Lundy, and Kubiak

LOL, I want some of that too. DeMeco was best player on D and Moulds and AJ best on O. Carr to me looked good, but to really make that assessment, I would like to seen him throw more than 17 passes in the first half. It was 17 right? Wasn't he like 14/17 going into the half? Now in my book of wisdom, that isn't too shabby. I do not know how his ratio ended up, but if I was playing a team that shut down my running game, I would have aired the ball out till the cows come home. Once I got the milk from the cows then I may start trying to run it again. Don't know how you even put Lundy's name in the Jury still out group. The whole running game today was pathetic at best. I sure hope it was not bad play calling on this game....

Honoring Earl 34
09-10-2006, 07:15 PM
What I saw from our defense today made me SICK! This team weill be lucky to win 1 of ita first 6 games.
Go to Dallas .

ubecool454
09-10-2006, 07:20 PM
OK....I drank the kool aid when we drafted Mario thinking he might be a stud. The first mistake of the new coaching staff. HE HAS NOT DONE ONE THING TO IMPRESS, and our defense gave up over 400 yards. Nice F%$#ing game Texans. We look like last seasonm. TEERRIBLE!

0-6 here we comeBARKLEY YOU TALK ABOUT MARIO..DID YOU SEE THE WAY HE WAS MOVED AROUND...NOW LETS GET TO THE REAL PROBLEM...I HAVE DEFENDED DAVID CARR FOR 4 YEARS NOW..I HAVE TO FINALLY ADMIT THAT THIS GUY HAS NERVOUS FEET AND CANNOT READ DEFENSE..ANYTIME I SEE ANDRE DOWN FIELD AND WIDE OPENED AND KICKING AT THE GRASS BENEATH HIS FEET..I KNOW THE QB IS NOT GIVING THE PLAY TIME TO DEVELOP...DON;T WORRY ABOUT MARIO..HE WILL BE ALRIGHT..THE SECONDARY IS YOUNG AND VERY VUNERABLE.....JUST ADMIT THE TEXANS ARE STILL BUILDING IN THE FIFTH YEAR AND DON'T PLACE THE BLAME ON ONE PLAYER BECAUSE HE WAS TAKEN OVER A DANCING RB (BUSH)

RTP2110
09-10-2006, 07:22 PM
He was easily blocked by one man and didn't even need to be doubled...and wasn't very often. It didn't matter if it was a Guard or a Tackle, no matter who was blocking him dominated him. He is only good running to the ball right now. If you run right at him he is defenseless. Right now he looks like a pure workout warrior. This is going to be a long year.

I couldn't agree more. I didn't see Mario shed 1 single block the entire game. Every time he was engaged he was manhandled. Also, the Eagles only double temed him a time or two IIRC.

texplayer2
09-10-2006, 07:30 PM
I don't know why ya'll are singling him out, the DLINE as a whole did not play well, we do play a little to much outside contain but that just comes with PHILLY athletic QB who can run, and a screen throwing team with Westbrook, you have to stay home to do that, granted it didn't work but I understand the playcalling, don't like it but understand it. There are 3 first day picks starting on the Dline, and a 9 year vet., and they all looked bad. Philly has a good oline, but not so good as to where we can't get any pressure. All in all the D looked bad our oline looked bad our TE/RB blocking looked bad.

I think if you are the #1 pick in the entire draft and are making that much money you should be able to perform. It is not all his fault, but he is the one everyone will look at. I hope he gets it going soon. He doesn't have to single handedly win games, but Mcnabb had all day to throw for almost the entire game.

Texan1
09-10-2006, 07:31 PM
I don't know why ya'll are singling him out, the DLINE as a whole did not play well, we do play a little to much outside contain but that just comes with PHILLY athletic QB who can run, and a screen throwing team with Westbrook, you have to stay home to do that, granted it didn't work but I understand the playcalling, don't like it but understand it. There are 3 first day picks starting on the Dline, and a 9 year vet., and they all looked bad. Philly has a good oline, but not so good as to where we can't get any pressure. All in all the D looked bad our oline looked bad our TE/RB blocking looked bad.


Are you serious? You don't know why Mario will be singled out on the DLine...? Come one, wake up - here is why:

1) He makes the MOST MONEY (on a salary capped team)
2) He was drafted #1 overall
3) He was the top player on the Texans draft board last season
4) He does not run or pass - he pressures the opposing offense for his money... period
5) With the amount of resources (money) the Texans have tied up in Mario - he makes or breaks the Defense... thats the truth

So, you see, if Mario does well - the Texans do well... if not, they won't.

Make sense?

Honoring Earl 34
09-10-2006, 07:38 PM
That's weak. The reason I am pissed is because I love this team, but they are frustrating to watch. Just because I state my opinion does not mean I won't be rooting for them to get better. again, the fact is that the Defense was pathetic today.
So why single out a rookie .

Vinny
09-10-2006, 07:40 PM
So why single out a rookie .
probably because he played like an undrafted FA.

TexansLucky13
09-10-2006, 07:43 PM
Bash Mario all you want. I sleep better not being a short-sighted fairweather fan.

Call me a Texans :homer: if you want.

Texan1
09-10-2006, 07:48 PM
So why single out a rookie .

Rookies drafted in the top of the 1st round are always singled out. Don't you think Bush, Hawk, Young, Ferguson, Leinart will be expected to contribute right away? Of course they will. If you make the big bucks, you'd better produce.

He is a rookie - he doens't have to dominate, but Mario needs to start showing signs of serious effort on his part. He laid down today - sorry.

Hulk75
09-10-2006, 07:48 PM
I think mario had more tackles and the same amount of sacks as Peppers..

however. did Carolina move Peppers around like we did with Mario?

I recall mario was at DT on some 3rd down situations.
just curious
I am NOT REPEAT NOT in favor of putting him at DT on Passing downs. Stupid I usually dont get mad at much but being a former DE I would HATE going down inside to pass rush or for him take up 2 guys, WHY why put him in the middle to get double teamed. Yes to make more one on one situations for the rest of our guys but did we really draft this guy just for him to take up double teams on 3rd downs,,,,,,,NO!

They need to tell him to get down to 280lbs put and leave him in at DE all night so he can work and be effective.

He is very young and needs work..................One thing I have noticed is that he does not get on the hip of the OLineman, if you stay square and try to bull rush all the time that makes it very easy for the OLineman to get his feet and stand there, which is what the Oline wants................You have to dip rip and get on his hip THEN adjust to what Donovan does.

He will be fine but I think he needs to stay at DE through out the game to be affective for passing downs.

TexansLucky13
09-10-2006, 07:49 PM
This is a typical response....when you call a spade a spade you are labeled a fairweather fan. I have been rooting for this team for 4 years and will continue to root for trhem,but when I see something that needs to be addressed, I address it. the fact is that today Mario Sucked and the defense SUCKED. I expect more from this coaching staff and from a #1 overall pick. again, he did not even need to get any sacks,....all I wanted to see was him make some impact on the defense or even show a FLASH of why we drafted him where we did. He did not show squat, and the defense did not show squat. Does that mean I'm going to jump ship? Hell No.....

I didn't expect him to make an impact and I don't need him to... yet. He is doing his job right now, he made no mistakes and didn't get hurt.

Sco-tai
09-10-2006, 07:51 PM
OK....I drank the kool aid when we drafted Mario thinking he might be a stud. The first mistake of the new coaching staff. HE HAS NOT DONE ONE THING TO IMPRESS, and our defense gave up over 400 yards. Nice F%$#ing game Texans. We look like last seasonm. TEERRIBLE!

0-6 here we come

(in the spirit of the RED STRIPE BEER commercials)

BOOOO STUPID FOOTBALL GUY

ghostlight
09-10-2006, 08:02 PM
I must say I expected him to have some shinning moments. He looked very out of place on a football field. Yes, it is going to be a long year for him. The real test will be of character after he watches the game film. I'm betting on him being of strong character and working with the coaches to become what we all expect of him. First on his list is to shed blockers(soon).

ubecool454
09-10-2006, 08:10 PM
It's too early to call Mario a bust, but I just got back from the game and watched him play every line spot...and he sucks. I hope he gets better. I have to watch my taped game to comment further, but he was very disappointing.
DID YOU GO ON YOUR FIRST JOB ON THE FIRST DAY AND SET THE WORLD ON FIRE. LOL..AS USUAL WE HAVE THE FAIR WEATHER BANDWAGON HOPPING HOUSTON FANS. EITHER STICK WITH THE TEAM THRU THE HARD TIMES OR DON'T RIDE WITH THEM AT ALL. MARIO SUCKS..LOL...HOW MANY TEAMS HAVE A LOT OF SUCCESS GETTING TO MCNABB ANYWAY?:wild:

dat_boy_yec
09-10-2006, 08:12 PM
I wouldn't be as pissed if he had applied some pressure, at least the hint of pressure, but as has been repeatedly stated the guy didn't even make McNabb look his way. This is just frustrating, I mean he lines up on the outside shoulder of the tackle for a reason and that reason isn't to stand up and engage him head on. I don't care what his excuse is he made it this far as a DE this should be common sense I mean that's why they have all those moves for DE's to utilize, but Mario I dunno he's just been successful in pissing me off.

Vinny
09-10-2006, 08:34 PM
DID YOU GO ON YOUR FIRST JOB ON THE FIRST DAY AND SET THE WORLD ON FIRE. LOL..AS USUAL WE HAVE THE FAIR WEATHER BANDWAGON HOPPING HOUSTON FANS. EITHER STICK WITH THE TEAM THRU THE HARD TIMES OR DON'T RIDE WITH THEM AT ALL. MARIO SUCKS..LOL...HOW MANY TEAMS HAVE A LOT OF SUCCESS GETTING TO MCNABB ANYWAY?:wild:I've hung with a bad team for 4 years...and I'm not going anywhere. The NFL doesn't have a minor league system to help along their prospects. First overall picks are taken early and paid well because they are impact players. If Mario played well people would be in here talking about how well he played. Mario didn't play well so we are talking about how he didn't play well....that's what this place is for.

Divebomb
09-10-2006, 08:57 PM
I've hung with a bad team for 4 years...and I'm not going anywhere. The NFL doesn't have a minor league system to help along their prospects. First overall picks are taken early and paid well because they are impact players. If Mario played well people would be in here talking about how well he played. Mario didn't play well so we are talking about how he didn't play well....that's what this place is for.


We do have a minor league system, its called NFL Europe.

TexansLucky13
09-10-2006, 09:13 PM
I've hung with a bad team for 4 years...and I'm not going anywhere. The NFL doesn't have a minor league system to help along their prospects. First overall picks are taken early and paid well because they are impact players. If Mario played well people would be in here talking about how well he played. Mario didn't play well so we are talking about how he didn't play well....that's what this place is for.

What are you, a Cardinals fan?

The problem with saying something like "Mario didn't play well" is that everyone on this board rates players differently. Sure, the majority of people would say he played well whenever he was making a huge impact (sacks, INT, FF, FR). But what about when he is just there, doing his job? Just being a DE. Did he get "owned" by their O-line? No. He got contained. They have an above average O-line. He didn't get pancaked on every play.

If you ask me how he played I will say that he played just like most DE's ends play.... doing their best. Today he was contained by better, more experienced linemen. He also is a rookie. Of course that has no bearing on this conversation, apparently.

You should rephrase it to "Mario didn't play exceptionally", which is true. DE is a tricky position, and if you didn't notice.... the way the Eagles played their offense, Mario had less chances to make a play.

Vinny
09-10-2006, 09:15 PM
Pass me your homer glasses and I'll call us an excellent team.

Porky
09-10-2006, 09:15 PM
What are you, a Cardinals fan?

The problem with saying something like "Mario didn't play well" is that everyone on this board rates players differently. Sure, the majority of people would say he played well whenever he was making a huge impact (sacks, INT, FF, FR). But what about when he is just there, doing his job? Just being a DE. Did he get "owned" by their O-line? No. He got contained. They have an above average O-line. He didn't get pancaked on every play.

If you ask me how he played I will say that he played just like most DE's ends play.... doing their best. Today he was contained by better, more experienced linemen. He also is a rookie. Of course that has no bearing on this conversation, apparently.

You should rephrase it to "Mario didn't play exceptionally", which is true. DE is a tricky position, and if you didn't notice.... the way the Eagles played their offense, Mario had less chances to make a play.


Hate to say it, but dude, you are totally clueless.

ravinaznt
09-10-2006, 09:24 PM
i was expecting a loss so im not mad about it, but i did notice that mario was moved all over the place, and he playtackle when third and long, which is not his position, if they wanted a tackle they should have gotten that guy from baltimore... so by doing this could this be more detrimental to the learning process of mario than helping him... or could it be that they know he can rush the quarter back so more him around and use the excuses that they are trying to make a missmatch?? also for the running back, would yall rather have one running back than running back by committee? i think by taking one running back out and putting him in throughout the game, they will have no rythmn. This could be the same for mario, do u think moving him around will make him more tired and make him over think and lose his rythmn??

noxiousdog
09-10-2006, 09:24 PM
It's too early to call Mario a bust, but I just got back from the game and watched him play every line spot...and he sucks. I hope he gets better. I have to watch my taped game to comment further, but he was very disappointing.

Compared to whom?

GoTexans
09-10-2006, 09:27 PM
OK....I drank the kool aid when we drafted Mario thinking he might be a stud. The first mistake of the new coaching staff. HE HAS NOT DONE ONE THING TO IMPRESS, and our defense gave up over 400 yards. Nice F%$#ing game Texans. We look like last seasonm. TEERRIBLE!

0-6 here we come

Our secondary is the reason we gave up 400 yards. they totally bit twice on thos huge playaction passes. the 40-50 yard td and that 30 yarder.

There was good pressure on McNabb all day.

Johnny Utah
09-10-2006, 09:28 PM
There was good pressure on McNabb all day.

What game were you watching?

DenverBorn
09-10-2006, 09:29 PM
Hey give Mario a break, he dominated against Wake Forest last year -

TexansLucky13
09-10-2006, 09:33 PM
Pass me your homer glasses and I'll call us an excellent team.

I'm sorry that you get off on our failures. So sad.

And yes, I am clueless. Clueless as to why I even bother with you people.

MrMeToo
09-10-2006, 09:39 PM
I'm not gonna say Mario is a bust (although he probably will be) after one game, but we should have drafted (Can I say his name on this board?) Reggie Bush. Just look at our RB situation. I remember some people on this board were saying Lundy>Reggie .lol: I don't know if they were serious, but damn that was funny.

noxiousdog
09-10-2006, 09:51 PM
Last year's DL all-pros game stats for today:
Freeney - 1 assist (through 3 quarters)
Jamal Williams - yet to play
Richard Seymour - 3 tackles, 1 assist, 1 sack
Osi Umenyiora - 1 tackle (through 3 quarters)

Mario Williams - 2 tackles, 1 assist

The Giants have put up 400+ yards of offense and the Colts aren't that far behind. Both have scored 20+ points. So, if Williams sucks, he does it just as much as all-pros.

TexansLucky13
09-10-2006, 09:53 PM
Last year's DL all-pros game stats for today:
Freeney - 1 assist (through 3 quarters)
Jamal Williams - yet to play
Richard Seymour - 3 tackles, 1 assist, 1 sack
Osi Umenyiora - 1 tackle (through 3 quarters)

Mario Williams - 2 tackles, 1 assist

The Giants have put up 400+ yards of offense and the Colts aren't that far behind. Both have scored 20+ points. So, if Williams sucks, he does it just as much as all-pros.

You better delete that post. The "anti-:homer:'s" will catch on fire if they see it.

Seriously though.... an awesome post. Thank you for comparing Mario to something real. Jeez... I get so tired of having to fight the good fight all the time.

feebleminded
09-10-2006, 09:54 PM
There was good pressure on McNabb all day.

What game were you watching? Who was getting all of the pressure?

Hervoyel
09-10-2006, 10:03 PM
Our secondary is the reason we gave up 400 yards. they totally bit twice on thos huge playaction passes. the 40-50 yard td and that 30 yarder.

There was good pressure on McNabb all day.

On a clear majority of the passing plays Donovan McNabb had enough time to open a can of Campbells Chunky Soup, heat it up, and eat it with a spoon before finding his open man. Some of those plays were just ridiculous they went on so long.

On a few plays we got close but it didn't happen nearly enough.

Our secondary is not good but they're not the worst group in the league. They look as bad as they do because the receivers have all day to get open and the QB has all day to wait for them to do so.

noxiousdog
09-10-2006, 10:05 PM
Seriously though.... an awesome post. Thank you for comparing Mario to something real. Jeez... I get so tired of having to fight the good fight all the time.


The hard part is that it's impossible to know his impact. We'll only know at the end of the year when our defense no longer ranks in at 31st. Or maybe it will. Maybe it's Ryans, maybe it's TJ. Without the gameplan and coaching film who knows?

I do know that defensive line don't dominate from day 1 though. Freeney didn't record his first tackle until his 2nd game. Didn't get his 1st sack for another week. Yet, he wound up with 40 tackles and 13 sacks on the year.

Peppers had 1 assist his first week, then 5 tackles and 3 sacks in week 2.

Unfortunately, Kearses game logs don't go back that far.

If we're in week 4 or 5 and haven't seen anything from Williams, it's time to complain, but he's already outperformed some significant game ones.

TFL
09-10-2006, 10:09 PM
I think it will take 2-4 years to call a draft oick a bust in less he is no longer in the NFL in 2-4 years, but after 1 game i mean come on If a rookie came in here and dominated in one game would that make him a HOF i think not so why does it have to be if he had one bad game is he a bust. After 2-4 years you should be able to call him a bust or not.

Johnny Utah
09-10-2006, 10:14 PM
Last year's DL all-pros game stats for today:
Freeney - 1 assist (through 3 quarters)
Jamal Williams - yet to play
Richard Seymour - 3 tackles, 1 assist, 1 sack
Osi Umenyiora - 1 tackle (through 3 quarters)

Mario Williams - 2 tackles, 1 assist

The Giants have put up 400+ yards of offense and the Colts aren't that far behind. Both have scored 20+ points. So, if Williams sucks, he does it just as much as all-pros.

There's more to defensive line play then just stats. Richard Seymor had only 35 tackles and 4 sacks last year, and he is one of the best DT in the game.

Widgeteye
09-10-2006, 10:18 PM
Well, after watching the game with the Eagles today I realize
what a waste of money Mario Williams was.

He can't break single team blocks, he's slow, I would call it
lumbering rather than running. He gets 2 tackles with an
assist.

Why in the hell didn't Houston spend that $54 million on an
offensive line rather than flush it down the toilet buying Williams?

For 2 years in a row they have wasted draft picks. I wonder
which Heisman trophy winner they will pass up next year.

What a waste.:confused:

BattleRedRaider
09-10-2006, 10:19 PM
Well, after watching the game with the Eagles today I realize
what a waste of money Mario Williams was.

He can't break single team blocks, he's slow, I would call it
lumbering rather than running. He gets 2 tackles with an
assist.

Why in the hell didn't Houston spend that $54 million on an
offensive line rather than flush it down the toilet buying Williams?

For 2 years in a row they have wasted draft picks. I wonder
which Heisman trophy winner they will pass up next year.

What a waste.:confused:

Ive seen your face before my friend
But I dont know if you know who I am
Well, I was there and I saw what you did
I saw it with my own two eyes
So you can wipe off the grin, I know where youve been
Its all been a pack of lies

barzilla
09-10-2006, 10:23 PM
I'm going to admit that I don't know enough about the situation to assign blame anywhere. I don't know what schemes were planned/used. I don't know what the coaches asked Williams to do today. I don't know if Williams gave 100 percent or not. I know the defense did not play well as a whole. I also know I'm not judging any individual players on the basis of one game. Maybe this makes me an idiot. I don't care.

RiotCommander
09-10-2006, 10:26 PM
Are the same people calling Mario a bust going to be the first looking to buy a ticket on his bandwagon if he turns out to be great? I doubt he needs those sort of fans. I admit he had a bad game, but he *is* a rookie. However highly drafted he is going to take time adjust to the league.

Much like the rest of our team he is going to be facing some of the best teams in the league these first few games. I just hope he continues to improve.

Lets say the worst is true. He is a bust, do you think we can trade him in for Bush? or VY? Please move on. I get tired of seeing this same thread each week.

noxiousdog
09-10-2006, 10:29 PM
There's more to defensive line play then just stats. Richard Seymor had only 35 tackles and 4 sacks last year, and he is one of the best DT in the game.

Of course. And it's because he had games like he had today.

But that has little to nothing to any conclusions that can be drawn from any other defensive lineman's first start.

Hulk75
09-10-2006, 10:29 PM
Well, after watching the game with the Eagles today I realize
what a waste of money Mario Williams was.

He can't break single team blocks, he's slow, I would call it
lumbering rather than running. He gets 2 tackles with an
assist.

Why in the hell didn't Houston spend that $54 million on an
offensive line rather than flush it down the toilet buying Williams?

For 2 years in a row they have wasted draft picks. I wonder
which Heisman trophy winner they will pass up next year.

What a waste.:confused:
You know what people should not count out guys too fast...................
David Carr looked pretty dang good in his first real game in a real offense, it takes time and people are soooooooooooooooooo impatient now days it makes me sick.Everyone looks for the quick fix now days and that does NOT last in the long run. Count this guy out now and you will regret it later. This guy is 21 years old, he needs time, I think the coaches need to put him at the end spot and leave him there..............GET HIM DOWN to 280lbs and let him go, see the 1st couple of plays with Mario at END he killed John Runyan and would have gotten himself a sack if we would have played a little tighter.

Vinny
09-10-2006, 10:33 PM
Last year's DL all-pros game stats for today:
Freeney - 1 assist (through 3 quarters)
Jamal Williams - yet to play
Richard Seymour - 3 tackles, 1 assist, 1 sack
Osi Umenyiora - 1 tackle (through 3 quarters)

Mario Williams - 2 tackles, 1 assist

The Giants have put up 400+ yards of offense and the Colts aren't that far behind. Both have scored 20+ points. So, if Williams sucks, he does it just as much as all-pros.You can't post a stat line in football and say that a player had a good day or bad day. If you don't watch the game you just can't tell. Break down some plays and tell us what you see.

infantrycak
09-10-2006, 10:34 PM
You know what people should not count out guys too fast...................
David Carr looked pretty dang good in his first real game in a real offense, it takes time and people are soooooooooooooooooo impatient now days it makes me sick.Everyone looks for the quick fix now days and that does NOT last in the long run. Count this guy out now and you will regret it later. This guy is 21 years old, he needs time, I think the coaches need to put him at the end spot and leave him there..............GET HIM DOWN to 280lbs and let him go, see the 1st couple of plays with Mario at END he killed John Runyan and would have gotten himself a sack if we would have played a little tighter.

I agree with putting him at DE and leaving him there. Don't know about getting him to drop close to 20 lbs as the boy is ripped now. He needs to be left at DE and coached on technique. Payne is better up the gut than he is and they need to stop jacking with the interior line. One thing I don't agree with this staff on is rotating the DL so much. If TJ and Payne are the best DT's leave them in and stop sticking Malone, etc. in there starting in the 1st qtr.

Hulk75
09-10-2006, 10:42 PM
I agree with putting him at DE and leaving him there. Don't know about getting him to drop close to 20 lbs as the boy is ripped now. He needs to be left at DE and coached on technique. Payne is better up the gut than he is and they need to stop jacking with the interior line. One thing I don't agree with this staff on is rotating the DL so much. If TJ and Payne are the best DT's leave them in and stop sticking Malone, etc. in there starting in the 1st qtr.
The only reason I say that is that I was 300lbs in college playing DT, I played some semi pro at 280lbs and the difference in my speed quickness and conditioning was by far better.

I just think if they ever just leave him at END they might think about dropping some of his lbs. off.

Widgeteye
09-10-2006, 10:43 PM
Are the same people calling Mario a bust going to be the first looking to buy a ticket on his bandwagon if he turns out to be great? I doubt he needs those sort of fans. I admit he had a bad game, but he *is* a rookie. However highly drafted he is going to take time adjust to the league.

Much like the rest of our team he is going to be facing some of the best teams in the league these first few games. I just hope he continues to improve.

Lets say the worst is true. He is a bust, do you think we can trade him in for Bush? or VY? Please move on. I get tired of seeing this same thread each week.


Ok, tell us what went right today?!? Anything??

Consider this; if they had a running game, which they might have had with Bush, there's a possibility that the Eagles wouldn't have spent most of the day rushing the passer and ringin' his bell..

You're going to see these threads every week so you may as well get used to it. If you are all that tired of it maybe you should blame the management. they are the ones who are making these MONSTER mistakes.

Why in the world would you spend money on defense when your main problem is you have absolutley NO offense. Offense is the half of the team that actually puts points on the board. You can have the number one defense in the league but if you don't put points on the board your defense is worthless.

Get used to the whining because as long as williams is unable to break single team blocks, is slow, isn't a threat to the quarterback, and plays as poorly as he did in the Eagles game, you're going to have people questioning wheather there is a brain cell in the Houston front office.

infantrycak
09-10-2006, 10:44 PM
The only reason I say that is that I was 300lbs in college playing DT, I played some semi pro at 280lbs and the difference in my speed quickness and conditioning was by far better.

I just think if they ever just leave him at END they might think about dropping some of his lbs. off.

I can see the theory (don't know what you looked like) but it just seems to have much more application to someone like TJ than to someone like MW. Mario is already lean--his weight looks natural on him as opposed to TJ who is obviously carrying a little extra to hold up in the middle.

BattleRedRaider
09-10-2006, 10:45 PM
If you are all that tired of it maybe you should blame the management. they are the ones who are making these MONSTER mistakes.

Why? Looks like you're already blaming management.

Hulk75
09-10-2006, 10:46 PM
I can see the theory (don't know what you looked like) but it just seems to have much more application to someone like TJ than to someone like MW. Mario is already lean--his weight looks natural on him as opposed to TJ who is obviously carrying a little extra to hold up in the middle.
:cool: .............Funny..........I was not fat.Far from it.

Hulk75
09-10-2006, 10:47 PM
Ok, tell us what went right today?!? Anything??

Consider this; if they had a running game, which they might have had with Bush, there's a possibility that the Eagles wouldn't have spent most of the day rushing the passer and ringin' his bell..

You're going to see these threads every week so you may as well get used to it. If you are all that tired of it maybe you should blame the management. they are the ones who are making these MONSTER mistakes.

Why in the world would you spend money on defense when your main problem is you have absolutley NO offense. Offense is the half of the team that actually puts points on the board. You can have the number one defense in the league but if you don't put points on the board your defense is worthless.

Get used to the whining because as long as williams is unable to break single team blocks, is slow, isn't a threat to the quarterback, and plays as poorly as he did in the Eagles game, you're going to have people questioning wheather there is a brain cell in the Houston front office.
We sucked okay...............We suck now you can go sleep, thanks.

noxiousdog
09-10-2006, 10:48 PM
You can't post a stat line in football and say that a player had a good day or bad day. If you don't watch the game you just can't tell. Break down some plays and tell us what you see.

About who?

Williams certainly didn't have a good game. We'd better get more than that out of him to justify a #1 overall pick. But, unless you're willing to say that Freeney and Umeniora suck as much as Mario, It's probably better to wait a few games.

And to be honest, I'd not have posted if it hadn't been your commentary. You said he sucks, and I was curious as to who you were comparing him.

infantrycak
09-10-2006, 10:49 PM
:cool: .............Funny..........I was not fat.Far from it.

I thought my caveat was enough--you see what I mean though about looking at Mario and TJ, right?

Hulk75
09-10-2006, 10:52 PM
I thought my caveat was enough--you see what I mean though about looking at Mario and TJ, right?
Yea...............:cool:

TexansLucky13
09-10-2006, 10:59 PM
You can't post a stat line in football and say that a player had a good day or bad day. If you don't watch the game you just can't tell. Break down some plays and tell us what you see.

I'm still waiting for you to do this.

Vinny
09-10-2006, 11:05 PM
I'm still waiting for you to do this.I do it all the time, every year after I watch the tape., year in, year out. I'm not the kind of guy to just post stats and say...here you are>>>that's a great game....you should pay attention more.

TexansLucky13
09-10-2006, 11:10 PM
I do it all the time, every year after I watch the tape., year in, year out. I'm not the kind of guy to just post stats and say...here you are>>>that's a great game....you should pay attention more.

Get crackin' on watchin that tape. In all seriousness, I want you to exploit his flaws. Please do this, soon. At least then you will have something to attack me with. Otherwise.... like you said.... this is all bologna.

Second Honeymoon
09-10-2006, 11:15 PM
I agree with putting him at DE and leaving him there. Don't know about getting him to drop close to 20 lbs as the boy is ripped now. He needs to be left at DE and coached on technique. Payne is better up the gut than he is and they need to stop jacking with the interior line. One thing I don't agree with this staff on is rotating the DL so much. If TJ and Payne are the best DT's leave them in and stop sticking Malone, etc. in there starting in the 1st qtr.

Totally agree that we need to leave him at DE. Putting him at tackle on passing downs off the bat may be too much to ask in his rookie year. Mario is not a bust but the guy showed so little in his inaugural game that it makes you wonder whether he is over his head against top competition.

It's a statistical fact that Mario only put up big numbers against inferior competition within the ACC and out of conference. He would get 3 or 4 sacks against Duke or Wake Forest but would be shut down against Florida State, Clemson, etc....I hope that trend doesnt continue in the NFL because there are very few players from Wake Forest and Duke...I am just worried he is another workout warrior without heart and moxie...

doug ftw

Vinny
09-10-2006, 11:15 PM
Get crackin' on watchin that tape. In all seriousness, I want you to exploit his flaws. Please do this, soon. At least then you will have something to attack me with. Otherwise.... like you said.... this is all bologna.I sat there in person and watched his game....I posted earlier that I pretty much just watched him...and watched him get dominated over and over. I probably had a better angle at the game than I have on TV tape. He was blocked by one man easily over and over. It didn't matter if it was a Guard or a Tackle...he wasn't able to shed any blocks at all.

Honoring Earl 34
09-10-2006, 11:21 PM
OK Mario did not look like Reggie White in his prime ... so what ... Willie Mays went 0-27 before he got his first hit . Lets see if he sucks the next 15 games .

Anyone catch the stat of Runyan and Thomas starting 108 straight games at LT/RT ?

This is no excuse but the Eagles look like their going to be NFC contenders this year . I think the Texans are'nt that bad , the Eagles are pretty stout .

Widgeteye
09-10-2006, 11:21 PM
He was blocked by one man easily over and over. It didn't matter if it was a Guard or a Tackle...he wasn't able to shed any blocks at all.


I payed special attention to him all game also and you're right.
He looked like someone who had been playing the game too long and was just plain tired out.

Vinny
09-10-2006, 11:22 PM
OK Mario did not look like Reggie White in his prime ... so what ... Willie Mays went 0-27 before he got his first hit . Lets see if he sucks the next 15 games .sure...but the only thing we can discuss is the game today. It's hard to discuss the next 15 games right now.

Honoring Earl 34
09-10-2006, 11:29 PM
sure...but the only thing we can discuss is the game today. It's hard to discuss the next 15 games right now.
I suspect if Mario sucks the next two games ... he'll become a bigger topic than Carr . Mario will then become Carr's favorite player .:whip:

Vinny
09-10-2006, 11:35 PM
I suspect if Mario sucks the next two games ... he'll become a bigger topic than Carr . Mario will then become Carr's favorite player .:whip:When you accept that large chunk of the cap as the first overall you get the tough stuff that goes with it. Welcome to the tough stuff Mario.

SF49erFaithful
09-10-2006, 11:46 PM
I didn't see the game. Did he really play as bad as most of say?

Anyway, no matter how bad he performed, he is still a rookie and this was his first game. In addition, the Eagles have a pretty good O-line. Don't be concerned that you guys lost either. It is just week 1 and don't put a whole lot of stock into it. Just try to take out all the positives of the game and look forward to next week. Heck, we lost today, but i am actually happy. Alex Smith and Frank Gore lit up the place.

BTW, how did Demeco Ryans look?

michaelm
09-10-2006, 11:51 PM
BTW, how did Demeco Ryans look?

DeMeco had 25% of the total (Texan) tackles in the game. I think it was 12 solos and 1 assist.
And no, I'm not joking... he actually did have a quarter of all our tackles.

CMoak1982
09-10-2006, 11:53 PM
Are you serious? You don't know why Mario will be singled out on the DLine...? Come one, wake up - here is why:

1) He makes the MOST MONEY (on a salary capped team)
2) He was drafted #1 overall
3) He was the top player on the Texans draft board last season
4) He does not run or pass - he pressures the opposing offense for his money... period
5) With the amount of resources (money) the Texans have tied up in Mario - he makes or breaks the Defense... thats the truth

So, you see, if Mario does well - the Texans do well... if not, they won't.

Make sense?



Yes teacher, you are trying to talk to me like a kid. I'm not trying to defend him, he played badly, but he's not the only one who played bad, makes money, 1st round pick. Last time I checked it was the ultimate team game. I'm saying ya'll are quick to jump on a rook when he wasn't put in positions to make plays, nor did he have help. Now I understand your opinion about it but don't try to force yours on me. If your saying we need to get our moneys worth out of every player, there is a long list buddy.

Carr, Davis, Greenwood, Wong, McKinney, Dunta, Andre the list goes on and on. The team has talent but they don't always play up to there monitary value(money).

jamiethekiller
09-11-2006, 12:11 AM
you guys are going too hard on him. he went against a vet LT. who has gone to the pro bowl several times, and is heralded at times as the second best pass blocking LT in the league.

Vinny
09-11-2006, 12:13 AM
you guys are going too hard on him. he went against a vet LT. who has gone to the pro bowl several times, and is heralded at times as the second best pass blocking LT in the league.They moved him all over the line and he was on different players constantly. He was stoned by everyone.

michaelm
09-11-2006, 12:41 AM
They moved him all over the line and he was on different players constantly. He was stoned by everyone.

Well, there's your problem right there... you might be able to get away with it at the college level, but I don't think you can have much success in the pros if you're playing stoned... :)


*edit*
Came back to say... of all the posts to get a positive rep for, this one earned one in about 5 minutes? I guess that's the crowd you play to at 1:01 am... :)

michaelm
09-11-2006, 12:49 AM
I'm still up in the air about how shifting Mario around effects his development, but you really have to think it can't exactly be accelerating it.

You may be right about the committe approach with our backs, but the line needs to gel some (alot) before either of those guys has a fair shot to succeed.

noxiousdog
09-11-2006, 08:01 AM
They moved him all over the line and he was on different players constantly. He was stoned by everyone.

I didn't see it that way, but I've only watched the game twice at this point.

Vinny
09-11-2006, 08:04 AM
I didn't see it that way, but I've only watched the game twice at this point.What did you see then? I was sober and didn't tailgate...so fill me in on what I missed please. I could have missed a play when I was talking to aj and infantrycak at the start of the 3rd quarter before I got back to my seat...but I was watching Mario closely the entire game.

noxiousdog
09-11-2006, 08:07 AM
I saw him as involved as Freeney and Umenyiora. I watched the Colts/Giants game as well, and specifically watched those two guys to see what all-pro ends looked like. The main difference being that the other two used more moves to get off their blocks (which they didn't do very well). And Freeney looked worse against the run. The Giants ran right inside him several times because they knew he over commits. Indy didn't run much at all.

Vinny
09-11-2006, 08:08 AM
ugh...I hate this place sometimes.

real
09-11-2006, 08:10 AM
What did you see then? I was sober and didn't tailgate...so fill me in on what I missed please. I could have missed a play when I was talking to aj and infantrycak at the start of the 3rd quarter before I got back to my seat...but I was watching Mario closely the entire game.

Did you see him drop back in coverage early in the game when Meco made that solo in the backfield??

Vinny
09-11-2006, 08:11 AM
Did you see him drop back in coverage early in the game when Meco made that solo in the backfield??you were impressed with his backpeddle huh? He backpeddles with a passion.

real
09-11-2006, 08:14 AM
you were impressed with his backpeddle I take it.

The only thing impressive that Mario did was be big....Just thought it was interesting that they would drop him in coverage...

Vinny
09-11-2006, 08:16 AM
The only thing impressive that Mario did was be big....Just thought it was interesting that they would drop him in coverage...
He only plays well when he is moving laterally to the ball in pursuit right now. Most of those highlights we see of him from College is when he is running to the ball. He isn't very good when you run right at him. He can't get off a block to save his life right now.

real
09-11-2006, 08:25 AM
He only plays well when he is moving laterally to the ball in pursuit right now. Most of those highlights we see of him from College is when he is running to the ball. He isn't very good when you run right at him. He can't get off a block to save his life right now.

Not only that...But he tries to bull rush on every play...that doesn't help much either...I was never really impressed with Marios highlights from a skill perspective...everyone knows he has exceptional physical talents, and I thought the coaches would be able to parlay that into success on the field...I am starting to think I was caught up in the homer hype....:homer: .....Im not giving up on him yet, but he needs to atleast show some flashes...

nunusguy
09-11-2006, 08:28 AM
"He doesn't have fast-twitch, like a Jason Taylor".
That was an observation the color commentator with FOX made about Mario on one play when he was boxed in, and tried to recover when the Eagles RB easily ran around him and got a nice gain. As we all watched the replay, Mario "lumbered" in pursuit after the back.
The commentator was right: Mario simply doesn't have the quickness, the
explosiveness, the fast-twitch of a J.Taylor, Kearse, Freeney, etc.
Anybody who thinks Mario may be a big-time edge rusher is having a fantasy. He may be a very good player in the NFL, but not as a classic edge rusher.

beerlover
09-11-2006, 08:30 AM
"He doesn't have fast-twitch, like a Jason Taylor".
That was an observation the color commentator with FOX made about Mario on one play when he was boxed in, and tried to recover when the Eagles RB easily ran around him and got a nice gain. As we all watched the replay, Mario "lumbered" in pursuit after the back.
The commentator was right: Mario simply doesn't have the quickness, the
explosiveness, the fast-twitch of a J.Taylor, Kearse, Freeney, etc.
Anybody who thinks Mario may be a big-time edge rusher is having a fantasy. He may be a very good player in the NFL, but not as a classic edge rusher.

this is why the Texans move him around so much- playing tackle- his future position :fireball:

Vinny
09-11-2006, 08:32 AM
"He doesn't have fast-twitch, like a Jason Taylor".
That was an observation the color commentator with FOX made about Mario on one play when he was boxed in, and tried to recover when the Eagles RB easily ran around him and got a nice gain. As we all watched the replay, Mario "lumbered" in pursuit after the back.
The commentator was right: Mario simply doesn't have the quickness, the
explosiveness, the fast-twitch of a J.Taylor, Kearse, Freeney, etc.
Anybody who thinks Mario may be a big-time edge rusher is having a fantasy. He may be a very good player in the NFL, but not as a classic edge rusher.yeah, but you should see him in shorts and in a short shuttle and broad jump!

nunusguy
09-11-2006, 08:36 AM
this is why the Texans move him around so much- playing tackle- his future position :fireball:
I dunno, but you may be right.
And if that's the case, it destroys Kubiak's premise for drafting Mario, which he
said was to be a supreme pass rusher who would pressure on Peyton Manning.

kbourda
09-11-2006, 08:37 AM
yeah, but you should see him in shorts and in a short shuttle and broad jump!
*lmao* Stop, Vin. You have been hurting my side this morning. I've read several of your comeback posts that people have been making that are too funny. To me, Mario looked a whole lot like Jason Babin did in his first NFL game. Hopefully this isn't a foreshadowing of his NFL career.

kbourda
09-11-2006, 08:39 AM
I dunno, but you may be right.
And if that's the case, it destroys Kubiak's premis for drafting Mario, which he
said was to be a supreme pass rusher who would pressure on Peyton Manning.

Excellent point, Nun.

beerlover
09-11-2006, 08:41 AM
I dunno, but you may be right.
And if that's the case, it destroys Kubiak's premis for drafting Mario, which he
said was to be a supreme pass rusher who would pressure on Peyton Manning.

the Texans still have a pair of good young DE's in Peek & Babin who have the speed and leverage to get around the corner, if Mario is occupying two men inside then he has done his job, also in this case I would like to see Mario cave in the pocket and still get his hands on the QB :bowser:

real
09-11-2006, 08:41 AM
I don't know what to think about Mario....I didn't really like the pick from the beggining, but I started drinking the kool-aid and I was thinking Mario was going to be a big time player for us....Mario is going to be a good NFL player, but he is not going to be amazing...

HoustonFrog
09-11-2006, 08:45 AM
I'm not going to judge a guy on 1 game but if you want my evaluation he looks just like Greg Ellis to me. Not spectacular but with potential and probably a "solid" career. That is a pre-season/1 day evaluation. However, as he learns more moves and learns that he isn't playing college talent he will improve.

nunusguy
09-11-2006, 08:46 AM
yeah, but you should see him in shorts and in a short shuttle and broad jump!
Hey V, as I recall you were originally pretty high on "Super Mario" ?
Your sarcasm indicates you may be having second thoughts on that about now ?
I still don't have a problem with leaving Bush on the Board, but I am even more confused than ever after Mario's regular season debut why we didn't trade the pick ? Atleaset if we had multiple picks, we wouldn't suffer the
constant ridicule of passing on Bush for another "single" player.

texan279
09-11-2006, 08:55 AM
*lmao* Stop, Vin. You have been hurting my side this morning. I've read several of your comeback posts that people have been making that are too funny. To me, Mario looked a whole lot like Jason Babin did in his first NFL game. Hopefully this isn't a foreshadowing of his NFL career.

Babin had 6 tackles in his first NFL game, including 2 open field stops on LaDanian Tomlinson, one for a loss. Mario stunk it up today.

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 08:57 AM
Julius Peppers had 1 tackle at the same point in his career.

Frills
09-11-2006, 09:01 AM
Love this board 1 game in the books and the sky is falling bandwagon is in overdrive.

real
09-11-2006, 09:02 AM
I'm not going to judge a guy on 1 game but if you want my evaluation he looks just like Greg Ellis to me. Not spectacular but with potential and probably a "solid" career. That is a pre-season/1 day evaluation. However, as he learns more moves and learns that he isn't playing colleg talent he will improve.

IMO, the odds for drastic improvement are against him...There are things to learn at DE....just like there are things to learn at other positios...But his pass rushing is suffering...he didn't only struggle with play recognition, and assignments...He struggled doing what he is supposed to already know how to do....He didn't only struggle with the mental perspective...he also struggled physically...That'd be like Reggie Bush struggling to make people miss, or Leinart struggling with touch on his passes, or Vernon Davis Struggling to get seperation on a LB, or A.J Hawk getting ran over a lot....This is what these guys got brought in to do...Guys picked at the top of the draft are expected to struggle with the mental differences of college and pro.....Mario struggles all the way around...Honestly I am worried about Him....I've seen flashes from pretty much every first round pick and some second rounders...I know Mario has a lot to learn, but he has basically shown nothing besides superior measurables....It is a long season and I really hope Mario can at least show signs of being worthy of the number 1 pick...:brickwall

Sportsfan
09-11-2006, 09:02 AM
The dude is getting stood up on almost every play that i watched him. Plus he isn't looking aggressive whatsoever. When Babin came in he looked like a Pro Bowl DE compared to Mario.
The coaches definitely need to work on his technique and he needs a full season to prove himself to me before i call him a bust.

Mr McNair- please use your deep pockets to buy us a time machine so we can go back in time and draft Reggie Bush. :stirpot:

real
09-11-2006, 09:03 AM
Julius Peppers had 1 tackle at the same point in his career.

Julius Peppers is a better athlete than Mario...

Texan1
09-11-2006, 09:10 AM
Yes teacher, you are trying to talk to me like a kid. I'm not trying to defend him, he played badly, but he's not the only one who played bad, makes money, 1st round pick. Last time I checked it was the ultimate team game. I'm saying ya'll are quick to jump on a rook when he wasn't put in positions to make plays, nor did he have help. Now I understand your opinion about it but don't try to force yours on me. If your saying we need to get our moneys worth out of every player, there is a long list buddy.

Carr, Davis, Greenwood, Wong, McKinney, Dunta, Andre the list goes on and on. The team has talent but they don't always play up to there monitary value(money).

Agreed. But the money and opportunity cost of Mario is higher than anyone else on this team (maybe anyone else on any team in recent years). Only time will tell... I'm hoping he plays great just like the rest of us do...

Chaft
09-11-2006, 09:10 AM
Also give me a break about Reggie Bush. He played the Browns for goodness sakes. Does anyone here really think the Browns are as good as the Eagles. You want to talk about a bust. As much as Bush was hyped he should have had a much bigger impact against the BROWNS!!!!!

Yes, the Browns aren't very good, but the Saints were playing on the road in a traditionally pretty loud, hostile stadium. Look at Reggie Bush's stats for the Saints game. He led the Saints in rushing of course, but he led the Saints in receiving yards and receptions. He didn't break anything for long yardage, but there is no doubt that Reggie Bush was a factor in every single drive they had that ended in a score. I think the Saints lose without Reggie Bush.

Jimmy Johnson said on Foxsports.com

"Now, Howie, you'll like this story. When I first got into the league, I mistakenly was trying to trade anybody to get some picks. I talked to Al Davis about trading him Michael Irvin. Al told me I didn't want to do that. He said some players score touchdowns, and some others will help you win games no matter how good they are at a particular position. But certain individuals are the difference between winning and losing games because they can put the ball in the end zone. That always stuck with me. Now, I look at Reggie Bush and maybe he is only going to touch the ball 15 times a game, but that one touchdown or two touchdowns that he either sets up or scores is going to be the difference between the Saints winning or losing a game. Now, Mario Williams may end up being a great player, maybe, I don't know. But he's not going to score any touchdowns and he's not going to be the difference between winning and losing a game."


I agree with Jimmy.

texan279
09-11-2006, 09:13 AM
Yes, the Browns aren't very good, but the Saints were playing on the road in a traditionally pretty loud, hostile stadium. Look at Reggie Bush's stats for the Saints game. He led the Saints in rushing of course, but he led the Saints in receiving yards and receptions. He didn't break anything for long yardage, but there is no doubt that Reggie Bush was a factor in every single drive they had that ended in a score. I think the Saints lose without Reggie Bush.
Jimmy Johnson said on Foxsports.com

"Now, Howie, you'll like this story. When I first got into the league, I mistakenly was trying to trade anybody to get some picks. I talked to Al Davis about trading him Michael Irvin. Al told me I didn't want to do that. He said some players score touchdowns, and some others will help you win games no matter how good they are at a particular position. But certain individuals are the difference between winning and losing games because they can put the ball in the end zone. That always stuck with me. Now, I look at Reggie Bush and maybe he is only going to touch the ball 15 times a game, but that one touchdown or two touchdowns that he either sets up or scores is going to be the difference between the Saints winning or losing a game. Now, Mario Williams may end up being a great player, maybe, I don't know. But he's not going to score any touchdowns and he's not going to be the difference between winning and losing a game."


I agree with Jimmy.

Bush did not lead the Saints in rushing yesterday.

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 09:15 AM
Julius Peppers is a better athlete than Mario...

What makes him a better athlete? Because he played 2 sports at UNC? Combine numbers?

How do you measure athleticism?

Chaft
09-11-2006, 09:15 AM
Bushs did not lead the Saints in rushing yesterday.

I forgot about Deuce. If not for Deuce's lost fumble, I think I would have remembered him actually making a contribution.

I was checking out the stats of the Saints game throughout. After Deuce fumbled, the Saints' coach stopped going to Deuce for a bit. It was on Reggie.

1-10-NO27 (6:46) R.Bush left tackle to NO 32 for 5 yards (D.Jackson, A.McKinley).
2-5-NO32 (6:14) D.Brees pass short right to R.Bush ran ob at NO 38 for 6 yards.
1-10-NO38 (5:48) R.Bush left guard to NO 44 for 6 yards (B.Russell).
2-4-NO44 (5:06) D.Brees pass incomplete short right to J.Horn (L.Bodden).
3-4-NO44 (5:00) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to D.Henderson to CLV 40 for 16 yards (B.Russell).
1-10-CLE40 (4:19) D.Brees pass incomplete deep left to M.Colston (G.Baxter). hand of to 26, who lateraled back to 9
2-10-CLE40 (4:12) R.Bush right guard to CLV 34 for 6 yards (A.McKinley).
3-4-CLE34 (3:34) (Shotgun) D.Brees pass short left to R.Bush to CLV 20 for 14 yards (B.Russell).
1-10-CLE20 (2:59) D.McAllister left tackle to CLV 13 for 7 yards (G.Baxter, Andra.Davis).
2-3-CLE13 (2:40) D.McAllister right tackle to CLV 12 for 1 yard (W.McGinest, E.Kelley). CLV-N.Eason was injured during the play. His return is Questionable.
3-2-CLE12 (2:06) D.Brees pass short right to M.Colston for 12 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

real
09-11-2006, 09:19 AM
What makes him a better athlete? Because he played 2 sports at UNC? Combine numbers?

How do you measure athleticism?

Doesn't take an hour to change directions....

thunderkyss
09-11-2006, 09:25 AM
Yes, the Browns aren't very good, but the Saints were playing on the road in a traditionally pretty loud, hostile stadium. Look at Reggie Bush's stats for the Saints game. He led the Saints in rushing of course, but he led the Saints in receiving yards and receptions. He didn't break anything for long yardage, but there is no doubt that Reggie Bush was a factor in every single drive they had that ended in a score. I think the Saints lose without Reggie Bush.

Jimmy Johnson said on Foxsports.com

"Now, Howie, you'll like this story. When I first got into the league, I mistakenly was trying to trade anybody to get some picks. I talked to Al Davis about trading him Michael Irvin. Al told me I didn't want to do that. He said some players score touchdowns, and some others will help you win games no matter how good they are at a particular position. But certain individuals are the difference between winning and losing games because they can put the ball in the end zone. That always stuck with me. Now, I look at Reggie Bush and maybe he is only going to touch the ball 15 times a game, but that one touchdown or two touchdowns that he either sets up or scores is going to be the difference between the Saints winning or losing a game. Now, Mario Williams may end up being a great player, maybe, I don't know. But he's not going to score any touchdowns and he's not going to be the difference between winning and losing a game."


I agree with Jimmy.


We shut the Eagles out in the first QTR.... If we'd have stopped the opening drive of the second half, we may have been able to win the game.

that may very well have been the difference....

We play Clevland, week 17, let's see how our guys do against that team....

Philadelphia plays New Orleans in Week 6, let's see how Reggie does against that team.

real
09-11-2006, 09:34 AM
From the way that Mario played I won't be surprised if he ends the year with 50 tackles and 0 sacks...

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 09:37 AM
Doesn't take an hour to change directions....

Are you sure about that? Did you break down film from Peppers' first game in the pros?

There's one hell of a steep learning curve for a 21 year old kid playing against a veteran OL. The game at NFL speed is a little quicker than the ACC. I'd venture to say that all rookie DE's start slow.

Calling somebody a bust at this stage is ridiculous.

Quick! Somebody go start a "Fire Kubiak" thread! :shoot:

real
09-11-2006, 09:38 AM
We shut the Eagles out in the first QTR.... If we'd have stopped the opening drive of the second half, we may have been able to win the game.

that may very well have been the difference....

We play Clevland, week 17, let's see how our guys do against that team....

Philadelphia plays New Orleans in Week 6, let's see how Reggie does against that team.

Still won't be a fair judgement...

jdog
09-11-2006, 09:42 AM
I'm sorry if my posts come off as angry but I am very frustrated. This team hardly looked better than last season and I expected quite a bit of improvement. VERY DISSAPOINTING! The worst part of it all was a solid performance from Bush when our #1 pick did squat. Please keep in mind that I supported the pick initially because I thought the coaches knew what they were doing. I am very concerned about Mario and everyone else in this city should be too.

I guess we can draft Peterson next year.

Rookie runnging backs always do better, and Bush is a great running back. Bush does not fit our need. I know the running game sucked, but we can work with what we have in this system there. We sucked on defense and that is why we needed to draft a defensive player. Mario is going to take some time to develop as opposed to Bush. It might be frustrating, but I think you have to be more patient on this issue.

real
09-11-2006, 09:44 AM
Are you sure about that? Did you break down film from Peppers' first game in the pros?
There's one hell of a steep learning curve for a 21 year old kid playing against a veteran OL. The game at NFL speed is a little quicker than the ACC. I'd venture to say that all rookie DE's start slow.


IMO, the odds for drastic improvement are against him...There are things to learn at DE....just like there are things to learn at other positios...But his pass rushing is suffering...he didn't only struggle with play recognition, and assignments...He struggled doing what he is supposed to already know how to do....He didn't only struggle with the mental perspective...he also struggled physically...That'd be like Reggie Bush struggling to make people miss, or Leinart struggling with touch on his passes, or Vernon Davis Struggling to get seperation on a LB, or A.J Hawk getting ran over a lot....This is what these guys got brought in to do...Guys picked at the top of the draft are expected to struggle with the mental differences of college and pro.....Mario struggles all the way around...Honestly I am worried about Him....I've seen flashes from pretty much every first round pick and some second rounders...I know Mario has a lot to learn, but he has basically shown nothing besides superior measurables....It is a long season and I really hope Mario can at least show signs of being worthy of the number 1 pick...:brickwall

I never called him a bust...And I explained the physical vs. mental aspects of the game above....Mario didn't look like a talented rookie...He looked like a terrible rookie....I haven't seen Mario do anything...I have only heard stories and premenitions...

real
09-11-2006, 09:46 AM
I am not going to start ranting about how we should have picked Bush..i won't even discuss how much more he could have helped us than Mario...Bush is not a factor because whats done is done and he isn't a Texan...time to move on...BUT I will critique the he!! outta Mario...

powerfuldragon
09-11-2006, 09:46 AM
Honestly, who wasn't expecting this thread?

thunderkyss
09-11-2006, 09:46 AM
Still won't be a fair judgement...

It'll be a little more fair than judging Reggie's 150 total yards(can you imagine, a 2nd overall pick on a punt return?? $50 million to return punts......) against an perenially week team, to Mario's 2 tackles against a perenial NFC Championship game participant.

real
09-11-2006, 09:49 AM
Are you sure about that? Did you break down film from Peppers' first game in the pros?


No I didn't break down film...have you wasted hours in your life breaking down JP's first pro game ?

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 09:53 AM
No I didn't break down film...have you wasted hours in your life breaking down JP's first pro game ?

I said Peppers had 1 tackle in his first game.

You called him a better athlete. I'm just trying to find out what you base it on.

You said it didn't take him an hour to change directions. I'm asking what you base that on.

Vinny
09-11-2006, 09:53 AM
Hey V, as I recall you were originally pretty high on "Super Mario" ?
Your sarcasm indicates you may be having second thoughts on that about now ?
I still don't have a problem with leaving Bush on the Board, but I am even more confused than ever after Mario's regular season debut why we didn't trade the pick ? Atleaset if we had multiple picks, we wouldn't suffer the
constant ridicule of passing on Bush for another "single" player.No, I wasn't ever really high on him since I didn't watch him play. I just said I could buy into the logic of the pick and trust the Texans braintrust till I got to see him play...yesterday was a disapointment, and we go on to week 2 now. Go look at my last post at houstonprofootball.com. I started a thread saying that I'm ok with the draft...not because I thought it was a great pick, but because I'm a fan of the team and will wait to see him play before judging him. Ric wanted to strawman me and spin my words so I stopped posting at HPF after that, so just seek my last thread I made shortly after the draft...I haven't posted since then and won't go back. So far he looks like a workout warrior to me.

real
09-11-2006, 09:55 AM
It'll be a little more fair than judging Reggie's 150 total yards(can you imagine, a 2nd overall pick on a punt return?? $50 million to return punts......) against an perenially week team, to Mario's 2 tackles against a perenial NFC Championship game participant.

not $50 million to return punts...$50 million to put the ball in the endzone anyway possible....I have never once said or even thought that Mario would be a better pro than RB...I think RB will have a much bigger impact than what Mario can ever think about having with us...But I have always thought that Mario was the better fit for OUR team...I honestly don't know how you can compare Mario vs Reggie because Mario will loose 99 times out of 99....

texan279
09-11-2006, 09:59 AM
not $50 million to return punts...$50 million to put the ball in the endzone anyway possible....I have never once said or even thought that Mario would be a better pro than RB...I think RB will have a much bigger impact than what Mario can ever think about having with us...But I have always thought that Mario was the better fit for OUR team...I honestly don't know how you can compare Mario vs Reggie because Mario will loose 99 times out of 99....

If I remember correct Bush had 0 TD's yesterday, and I love how ESPN lumps his total yards as one big number.

Vinny
09-11-2006, 10:00 AM
Bush did not lead the Saints in rushing yesterday.Who cares? Stats don't win games, big plays do.

thunderkyss
09-11-2006, 10:03 AM
I never called him a bust...And I explained the physical vs. mental aspects of the game above....Mario didn't look like a talented rookie...He looked like a terrible rookie....I haven't seen Mario do anything...I have only heard stories and premenitions...

Physically you're right, we should see him overpowering Tightends at least..... and we are not.

But mentally, with the way we are moving him around on everydown, having him play the strong side all the time..... then moving to DT at least once every three plays..... You don't think that's asking a lot from a rookie?? He has no time to learn the guy in front of him...... no time to set up a rhythm...... no time to get into the other guys head..... and no time to recognize any weaknesses, or set the guy up for an outside move and run inside.......

Unimpressive....... I can agree with that, to a point. But it's kinda crazy to expect him to have done much more than what he has. & while we didn't sack McNabb often, I think we did get good pressure on him. He didn't sit back all day. He left the pocket several times, and made some good plays on the run.

But he is Donavan.....

texan279
09-11-2006, 10:03 AM
Who cares? Stats don't win games, big plays do.

I don't care, just correcting what he said.

Bsacamano
09-11-2006, 10:06 AM
IMO, the odds for drastic improvement are against him...There are things to learn at DE....just like there are things to learn at other positios...But his pass rushing is suffering...he didn't only struggle with play recognition, and assignments...He struggled doing what he is supposed to already know how to do....He didn't only struggle with the mental perspective...he also struggled physically...That'd be like Reggie Bush struggling to make people miss, or Leinart struggling with touch on his passes, or Vernon Davis Struggling to get seperation on a LB, or A.J Hawk getting ran over a lot....This is what these guys got brought in to do...Guys picked at the top of the draft are expected to struggle with the mental differences of college and pro.....Mario struggles all the way around...Honestly I am worried about Him....I've seen flashes from pretty much every first round pick and some second rounders...I know Mario has a lot to learn, but he has basically shown nothing besides superior measurables....It is a long season and I really hope Mario can at least show signs of being worthy of the number 1 pick...:brickwall

I completely agree

real
09-11-2006, 10:07 AM
I said Peppers had 1 tackle in his first game.

You called him a better athlete. I'm just trying to find out what you base it on.

You said it didn't take him an hour to change directions. I'm asking what you base that on.

Im basing it on Mario getting out ran, out manuevered, out hustled...plain old out played on every single snap...

I base it on the fact that JP starred in two sports...not just any two sports...probably the two sports that take the most athleticism to play pound for pound...

I base it on the fact the Mario looks like frankenstein coming off the ball...

Mario does not have the quickess needed to adjust and make plays coming towards him...

real
09-11-2006, 10:11 AM
If I remember correct Bush had 0 TD's yesterday, and I love how ESPN lumps his total yards as one big number.

He didn't have any touchdowns but he played a key part in their WIN...not to mention over a hundred in all purpose yards...Please don't start me on stats vs impact because Mario loses either way...You didn't coreect what I said you just added irrelevant information...I said he was paid to put the ball in the endzone...correct that.....And I have always said that bush is neither a wr nor rb...he is an offensive weapon so it only servers right that they lump his stats...Thats like if he has 800 rushing and 600 recieving this year...you gonna discard the threat he brings on returning punts and kickoffs and catching passes just because he is listed as "Running Back" on the depth chart...get...outta...town...

texan279
09-11-2006, 10:14 AM
He didn't have any touchdowns but he played a key part in their WIN...not to mention over a hundred in all purpose yards...Please don't start me on stats vs impact because Mario loses either way...

I'm not trying to start anything, you said he was paid $50 mil to score TD's, I just pointed how he didn't score any yesterday. And just because a running back and defensive end were drafted #1 and #2 doesn't mean you can compare them anyway.

Vinny
09-11-2006, 10:15 AM
I'm not trying to start anything, you said he was paid $50 mil to score TD's, I just pointed how he didn't score any yesterday. And just because a running back and defensive end were drafted #1 and #2 doesn't mean you can compare them anyway.You don't have to score to impact a game. If you bust off a huge chunk of yardage and radically change your teams field position, it leads to other people scoring.

texan279
09-11-2006, 10:17 AM
You don't have to score to impact a game. If you bust off a huge chunk of yardage and radically change your teams field position, it leads to other people scoring.

I was just going off of what he said. And sure Bush can do that and Mario cannot which is one of the reasons I do not understand why some want to try and compare Mario to Bush.

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 10:18 AM
Im basing it on Mario getting out ran, out manuevered, out hustled...plain old out played on every single snap...

I base it on the fact that JP starred in two sports...not just any two sports...probably the two sports that take the most athleticism to play pound for pound...

I base it on the fact the Mario looks like frankenstein coming off the ball...

Mario does not have the quickess needed to adjust and make plays coming towards him...

Cool. While I don't necessarily agree, I see where you're coming from.

I think any problems he's got are between his ears right now. He's a 21 year old kid with a lot to learn. I think that he'll get better as the season goes on.

real
09-11-2006, 10:24 AM
Cool. While I don't necessarily agree, I see where you're coming from.

I think any problems he's got are between his ears right now. He's a 21 year old kid with a lot to learn. I think that he'll get better as the season goes on.

I think that exscuse gets more and more played out...I agree that he has a lot to learn...but so does every other rookie...I never said he should come out and dominate...I said I wanted him to show flashes...Now I will lower my standards and just hope he doesn't look terrible...

Bsacamano
09-11-2006, 10:33 AM
I think that exscuse gets more and more played out...I agree that he has a lot to learn...but so does every other rookie...I never said he should come out and dominate...I said I wanted him to show flashes...Now I will lower my standards and just hope he doesn't look terrible...


I agree with this 100%

Nawzer
09-11-2006, 10:37 AM
I've said this before and I'll say it again: If the Texans don't win and win quick that 2-14 season is going to look like a fond memory. It's not so much so about Mario. The interior lineman failed to provide any kind of push and our whole d-line sucked. Mario won't turn into Superman overnight and it'll take some time. But at some point he's got to show something tangible, something the fans can take a hold of. Until then the Texans must start winning otherwise......

Chaft
09-11-2006, 10:53 AM
$54 million contract. Incredible.

I know Bob McNair is very rich, and he can survive these kinds of financial hits. However, the NFL is a capped league. That's around $9 million a year for 6 years. $26.5 million is GUARANTEED over the 1st 2 years. Whoa man. Come on. I know DE have longer lifespans than RBs and take longer to get acclimated to the NFL. With that kind of money being spent, I would rather have an instant playmaker who helps the team now.

Let's say Reggie got that contract and burnt out after 6 years, that's money well spent. If and when Mario Williams does become a good DE, what year of that contract will it be. Will it be the 5th season? 6th season? You know negotiations for the next contract are usually based off the prior season. Is that money well-spent?

El Tejano
09-11-2006, 10:57 AM
Babin had 6 tackles in his first NFL game, including 2 open field stops on LaDanian Tomlinson, one for a loss. Mario stunk it up today.
Speaking of Babin, he was the only dude that showed any explosiveness on the ball.

One thing for sure is I hope Kubiak is looking at yesterdays game and realizing that CC Brown is not the anwer out there.

thunderkyss
09-11-2006, 11:00 AM
You don't have to score to impact a game. If you bust off a huge chunk of yardage and radically change your teams field position, it leads to other people scoring.

but didn't we have that already in DD, and people were saying he's just avg at best??

150 total yards......... that's not bad on Reggie's part. But comparing his game against Cleveland, to Mario's game against Philly is ludacris......

Hulk75
09-11-2006, 11:06 AM
yeah, but you should see him in shorts and in a short shuttle and broad jump!
Are you going to start after Mario now? I cant let that happen either.:)

He will be fine, I still say he needs to be at DE and left there. Dang Richard Smith if you wanted a guy to take up doubles you should have just went after tedd washington this off season.

He needs to stay at end.

powerfuldragon
09-11-2006, 11:08 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/TheKingOfBums/Waambulance.jpg

Hulk75
09-11-2006, 11:10 AM
They moved him all over the line and he was on different players constantly. He was stoned by everyone.
I would not say that, he is just reading too much instead of reacting, and he stays with his guy waaaaaaaaaay too long right now.You have to get off and move, always have to be moving while playing dline.

Like I said he needs to get on the hip off the olineman, he makes it too easy when all he tries to do is bullrush.

Hulk75
09-11-2006, 11:14 AM
Just like I said earlier, people are always wanting the quick fix................

You know what people should not count out guys too fast...................
David Carr looked pretty dang good in his first real game in a real offense, it takes time and people are soooooooooooooooooo impatient now days it makes me sick.Everyone looks for the quick fix now days and that does NOT last in the long run. Count this guy out now and you will regret it later. This guy is 21 years old, he needs time, I think the coaches need to put him at the end spot and leave him there..............GET HIM DOWN to 280lbs and let him go, see the 1st couple of plays with Mario at END he killed John Runyan and would have gotten himself a sack if we would have played a little tighter.

real
09-11-2006, 11:16 AM
He also has poor pass vs. run recognition, slow reactions....

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 11:17 AM
I think that exscuse gets more and more played out...I agree that he has a lot to learn...but so does every other rookie...I never said he should come out and dominate...I said I wanted him to show flashes...Now I will lower my standards and just hope he doesn't look terrible...

Comparing Mario to Bush is played out. Apples and oranges. Calling him a bust after 1 game is played out.

He's got a lot on his plate right now. He's got 4 positions that he has to learn. He's playing against seasoned veterans that can keep him tied up.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be getting criticized. There's 54 million reasons why he should. He didn't look good, but who did? He's part of an entire unit that looked horrendous on Sunday.

real
09-11-2006, 11:17 AM
Just like I said earlier, people are always wanting the quick fix................

I don't think anyone is counting him out.....Aren't you just a little dissapointed in his play ?

Vinny
09-11-2006, 11:18 AM
but didn't we have that already in DD, and people were saying he's just avg at best??

150 total yards......... that's not bad on Reggie's part. But comparing his game against Cleveland, to Mario's game against Philly is ludacris......
If you think Dom is an explosive game changer like Westbrook, Bush or Tomlinson....um, well, :francis:

Dom is a nice little slashing back who is good at breaking arm tackles, but he isn't an explosive playmaker. It's just my opinion but you totally overrate Davis.

real
09-11-2006, 11:22 AM
Comparing Mario to Bush is played out. Apples and oranges. Calling him a bust after 1 game is played out.

He's got a lot on his plate right now. He's got 4 positions that he has to learn. He's playing against seasoned veterans that can keep him tied up.

I'm not saying he shouldn't be getting criticized. There's 54 million reasons why he should. He didn't look good, but who did? He's part of an entire unit that looked horrendous on Sunday.

He was part of that unit...but he's the most exspensive part of that unit...He is/was expected to be the most dominant player on the defense...He wasn't even the best player on the DL...We can criticize the defensive unit all day long, but this is a MW thread so that is who is being talked about...Mario played poorly...more poorly than expected...I am not sure what you are arguing against....

real
09-11-2006, 11:22 AM
If you think Dom is an explosive game changer like Westbrook, Bush or Tomlinson....um, well, :francis:

Dom is a nice little slashing back who is good at breaking arm tackles, but he isn't an explosive playmaker. It's just my opinion but you totally overrate Davis.

freakin dito.

Malloy
09-11-2006, 11:22 AM
If you think Dom is an explosive game changer like Westbrook, Bush or Tomlinson....um, well, :francis:

Dom is a nice little slashing back who is good at breaking arm tackles, but he isn't an explosive playmaker. It's just my opinion but you totally overrate Davis.

I agree with your take on DD, but I would have loved to see what his multi-year experience could have generated in the yardage department yesterday.

cred
09-11-2006, 11:29 AM
I don't know who urinated on all of your cheerios today, with all of this whining, but you know what? Who cares. It is one game and there is always tomarrow, or today for that matter. Do I think Mario did poorly, yes, but does my oppinion really matter, probably not. I am not paying his salary, Bob Mcnair is. So how about we give him a chance of more that one game, before we start calling him a bust. Oh, and with whole Reggie thing, do you really think that a DE has the same possibility to touch the ball as much as a RB. To be honest Reggie Bush should have had at least 200 yards combined between rushing, recieving, and returns, under the circumstances of playing the Downs, I mean Browns.

So lets get real and honestly give some one longer that one game to make an assessment of their overall ability.

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 11:32 AM
I should have known that this was really a Reggie Bush thread in disguise.

Hulk75
09-11-2006, 11:33 AM
I don't think anyone is counting him out.....Aren't you just a little dissapointed in his play ?
Sure I am. Like I said he needs to not stay with his guy so long, he has to go beat his guy then react to McNabb, he was kind of like letting McNabb dictate were he went.

I know you cant just fly around you have to stay in your rush lanes, but you can do all that just get to the hip of the lineman, make him move.

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 11:35 AM
Sure I am. Like I said he needs to not stay with his guy so long, he has to go beat his guy then react to McNabb, he was kind of like letting McNabb dictate were he went.

I know you cant just fly around you have to stay in your rush lanes, but you can do all that just get to the hip of the lineman, make him move.

Don't you know he should have been doing that since he was in diapers?:sarcasm:

real
09-11-2006, 11:39 AM
Sure I am. Like I said he needs to not stay with his guy so long, he has to go beat his guy then react to McNabb, he was kind of like letting McNabb dictate were he went.

I know you cant just fly around you have to stay in your rush lanes, but you can do all that just get to the hip of the lineman, make him move.

That is easier said than done...If he could have done it I think he would have...unless you all are implying that he was holding something back...

thunderkyss
09-11-2006, 11:42 AM
If you think Dom is an explosive game changer like Westbrook, Bush or Tomlinson....um, well, :francis:

Dom is a nice little slashing back who is good at breaking arm tackles, but he isn't an explosive playmaker. It's just my opinion but you totally overrate Davis.

But he got us chunks of yardage that changed our field position..... I'm sure he had a couple of 150 yard games

Hulk75
09-11-2006, 11:46 AM
That is easier said than done...If he could have done it I think he would have...unless you all are implying that he was holding something back...
I am not Mario but I have played the possition for a long time.

Sometimes coaches have plays were the ends rush and the 2 or even 1 inside guy(s) stay in to chase down a running qb. They push push push and the ends are there to flush him up into the arms of the inside guys, MAYBE that is what they were doing, all I know is is that when he should be doing something routine like dip and ripping or shedding his guy he just is a step too slow right now, thats why I said he looks like he is just reading too much instead of reacting and just playing ball.

He is only 21years old, the game will slow down for him when he just plays and does not think too much..........I could be wrong though I dont know the play or what he is thinking. Just what I saw on some plays.

real
09-11-2006, 11:57 AM
I am not Mario but I have played the possition for a long time.

Sometimes coaches have plays were the ends rush and the 2 or even 1 inside guy(s) stay in to chase down a running qb. They push push push and the ends are there to flush him up into the arms of the inside guys, MAYBE that is what they were doing, all I know is is that when he should be doing something routine like dip and ripping or shedding his guy he just is a step too slow right now, thats why I said he looks like he is just reading too much instead of reacting and just playing ball.

He is only 21years old, the game will slow down for him when he just plays and does not think too much..........I could be wrong though I dont know the play or what he is thinking. Just what I saw on some plays.


You don't have to explain to me about technique, and such...I too am well versed in this area...And I have not looked at the tape closely but I will tonight...But from just watching the game Mario looked flat, overmatched and slow...And I have said over and over again...I am not complaining about his mental mistakes...He was physically out done on saturday...that was supposed to be his selling point...That is what I am worried about...the fact that he can only make tackles on dive plays and runs away....

Houston_Fanatic
09-11-2006, 12:34 PM
It is ludicrous to call Mario a bust after one NFL regular-season game, but the criticisms ON THIS GAME are valid.

Am I remembering it wrong, or were we told by the front office that they wanted Mario because he was a player who would have an immediate impact on the game? If they really believed this, then they must be feeling real bad this morning because this kid is going to take some time to step up to the NFL level.

I, for one, hopes he finds his comfort zone and lives up to at least some of his hype. Maybe he didn't get more than 10 minutes of sleep Saturday night.......

Hervoyel
09-11-2006, 12:39 PM
Quick! Somebody go start a "Fire Kubiak" thread! :shoot:

Somebody else is going to have to make the soap bar avatar this time.

Even if I agreed with it I just don't have the heart to do it.

Chaft
09-11-2006, 12:47 PM
It is ludicrous to call Mario a bust after one NFL regular-season game, but the criticisms ON THIS GAME are valid.

Am I remembering it wrong, or were we told by the front office that they wanted Mario because he was a player who would have an immediate impact on the game? If they really believed this, then they must be feeling real bad this morning because this kid is going to take some time to step up to the NFL level.

I, for one, hopes he finds his comfort zone and lives up to at least some of his hype. Maybe he didn't get more than 10 minutes of sleep Saturday night.......

""Defensive ends like Williams don't come around very often," Smith said. "He can make an impact on our defense right off the bat. He's going to make the rest of our jobs easier. To be honest with you, I was hoping we'd get Williams. Bush is a great back and all, but we get a lot from Domanick Davis. There's nothing wrong with him.""

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3828550.html

Honoring Earl 34
09-11-2006, 12:49 PM
I am not Mario but I have played the possition for a long time.

Sometimes coaches have plays were the ends rush and the 2 or even 1 inside guy(s) stay in to chase down a running qb. They push push push and the ends are there to flush him up into the arms of the inside guys, MAYBE that is what they were doing, all I know is is that when he should be doing something routine like dip and ripping or shedding his guy he just is a step too slow right now, thats why I said he looks like he is just reading too much instead of reacting and just playing ball.

He is only 21years old, the game will slow down for him when he just plays and does not think too much..........I could be wrong though I dont know the play or what he is thinking. Just what I saw on some plays.
Hulk , do you buy that Mario the guy with the 4.7 40, the 40" vertical , and the 10.8 broadjump does'nt have fast twitch muscles like Jason Taylor ? The commentator mentioned that during yesterdays game ... I thought that running a 4.7 at 295 lbs means you may have some genetics going your way .

TexanFanInCC
09-11-2006, 12:52 PM
OK....I drank the kool aid when we drafted Mario thinking he might be a stud. The first mistake of the new coaching staff. HE HAS NOT DONE ONE THING TO IMPRESS, and our defense gave up over 400 yards. Nice F%$#ing game Texans. We look like last seasonm. TEERRIBLE!

0-6 here we come

how did i know some wierdo would post this? this thread exemplifies the best way to stir the pot.

just think of yao ming. when ming was getting plowed in his first few games of the NBA, there were people calling him the next shawn bradley. look what he has become now? it may take a 2 or 3 games to get used to the speed of the NFL. he definitely has the physical characteristics.

real
09-11-2006, 12:56 PM
how did i know some wierdo would post this? this thread exemplifies the best way to stir the pot.

just think of yao ming. when ming was getting plowed in his first few games of the NBA, there were people calling him the next shawn bradley. look what he has become now? it may take a 2 or 3 games to get used to the speed of the NFL. he definitely has the physical characteristics.

Yao Ming showed flashes...great passes, good touch for a big Man...Mario has shown that he is big....

real
09-11-2006, 01:01 PM
Hulk , do you buy that Mario the guy with the 4.7 40, the 40" vertical , and the 10.8 broadjump does'nt have fast twitch muscles like Jason Taylor ? The commentator mentioned that during yesterdays game ... I thought that running a 4.7 at 295 lbs means you may have some genetics going your way .

Fast and quick are two different things...Mario has fast straight ahead speed, and he is pretty quick for his size...But when it comes to making plays in space, or having to change direction he is lacking...

Blake
09-11-2006, 01:13 PM
Time for me to chime in on this interesting subject.

Mario was a non factor. Mario had zero pressure, and was held in check all day by the Eagles offensive line(Runyan), and playcalling(Screens). I am not going to give up on the kid. I think he can be a force when he learns how to conserve his energy, and be more sound on his technique.

I give props to the eagles and their play calling. Screen to Westbrook seems like a great call when you can go 70, of the 75 yards down the field with it. How about a Westbrook shadow???

I think our defense played ok as a unit. I give them a B. Our offense looked great for our first scripted drive. But after that, it looked like Pendry took over the playbook. Offense - D. Special teams as usual were exceptional in my book.

Goal for next week. Defense, get more pressure, and force some turnovers. Offense, run blocking needs alot of work.

Hulk75
09-11-2006, 01:21 PM
Hulk , do you buy that Mario the guy with the 4.7 40, the 40" vertical , and the 10.8 broadjump does'nt have fast twitch muscles like Jason Taylor ? The commentator mentioned that during yesterdays game ... I thought that running a 4.7 at 295 lbs means you may have some genetics going your way .
NO, cause I watched him in his combine workout, quickness stuff and he looked pretty good.

I just think he is reading too much and not reacting (fighting through preasure) in other words I tell my kids I coach you have to fight against preasure, Peek reacts very quick to preasure if you watch him, as soon as he feels it, he is fighting back hard.

He WILL be OK. Watch some of the 1st plays in the 1st series were he is playing end he gets some pretty good preasure, just mcnabbs guy got open.

Bsacamano
09-11-2006, 01:23 PM
how did i know some wierdo would post this? this thread exemplifies the best way to stir the pot.

just think of yao ming. when ming was getting plowed in his first few games of the NBA, there were people calling him the next shawn bradley. look what he has become now? it may take a 2 or 3 games to get used to the speed of the NFL. he definitely has the physical characteristics.

Did you watch the game? Mario showed NOTHING!....not even a glimpse of ehy we drafted him #1 overall. At least Yao showed some flashes. I hope Barkley is wrong, but I have not seen anything to lead me to belive otherwise yet

real
09-11-2006, 01:24 PM
NO, cause I watched him in his combine workout, quickness stuff and he looked pretty good.

I just think he is reading too much and not reacting (fighting through preasure) in other words I tell my kids I coach you have to fight against preasure, Peek reacts very quick to preasure if you watch him, as soon as he feels it, he is fighting back hard.

He WILL be OK. Watch some of the 1st plays in the 1st series were he is playing end he gets some pretty good preasure, just mcnabbs guy got open.

What do you mean when you say fight through pressure ? That sounds like a bull rush to me...

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 01:25 PM
Yao Ming=apples
Mario Williams=oranges

Different game. How many rebounds can a defensive lineman get? How many points per game should they score?

real
09-11-2006, 01:27 PM
Yao Ming=apples
Mario Williams=oranges

Different game. How many rebounds can a defensive lineman get? How many points per game should they score?

ask the guy who brought it up as an example...

Mailman04
09-11-2006, 01:31 PM
I don' t think he is a bust, but I do think it was a big mistake not to take Bush. This team has no speed at TB and that is a killer in the NFL. Lundy isn't the answer. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think so.

Honoring Earl 34
09-11-2006, 02:47 PM
What do you mean when you say fight through pressure ? That sounds like a bull rush to me...
I think it means Mario needs some counter moves . He can't let the OL engage him .

When i played you could'nt use your hands so when then gaurd went to block you (hands in ) ... you were taught to forearm him in the chest to stop his progress .

prostock101
09-11-2006, 02:57 PM
Too early to tell if Mario is a bust or not. The whole defensive line seemed to never figure out if they were pass rushing or looking for a runner. I will say that Mario got stood up by the offensive lineman most of the time. Even in obvious pass rush plays he never tried a spin or a swim move or something to try and disengage himself from the lineman. Why don't they just take him out of the 3point stance, stand him up and let him get after someone. Any comments?

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 03:03 PM
I think it's about time to call this thread what it really is:

"We're still not over our Reggie man-crush."

texansfaninla
09-11-2006, 03:09 PM
Williams has BUST written all over him. First thing out of the gate was he had bad toenails and couldn't practice. Anyone ever heard of any NFL player (or big time college player, for that matter) have that problem? "Well, his feet keep getting stepped on." No crap. So do a lot of players, especially those on the lines. Then he got put on his back in the preseason by KYLE TURLEY, who hasn't played in TWO YEARS.

He hasn't done a damn thing in a Texans uniform to show he was worthy of even a top 10 pick. Nothing. Anyone who argues otherwise is drinking battle red Kool-Aid and wearing Casserly Goggles. Plus, he hasn't shown he has any kind of strong motor to play every down from beginning to end. Quite the opposite, actually.

There was a reason nobody talked about him in college - he wasn't as good as his stats and his combine results. (A GREAT COMBINE DOESN'T WARRANT PASSING ON THE BEST PLAYER IN A GENERATION TO TAKE A RISK ON AN UNCELEBRATED PROJECT.)

Meanwhile, we have a desperate need for a running back with breakaway speed, and our OL could use some help with some distractions on offense.

WHY DIDN'T WE TAKE BUSH?????????????

"We don't need him, we have a system." Yeah - that showed Sunday. Seventy yards. Lundy was a second fiddle at Virginia, and Morency has been a dud for the most part. It's not a man crush - it's logic. Plain and simple. McNair apparently doesn't have it, which is why we are now 18-47 and building on the WORST START IN NFL EXPANSION HISTORY.

MARIO WILLIAMS = THE SECOND COMING OF AUNDRAY BRUCE

(Or, since some are comparing Mario to basketball, THE SECOND COMING OF SAM BOWIE.)

cbnjwill
09-11-2006, 03:12 PM
doesnt really matter if mario is a bust or not it was a bad pick. he certainly looks more like a bust than a big time player right now. i hear alot of guys saying give him time hes a project. man you dont waste the number one overall pick on project you expect that guy to produce right away. ryans has come in rihgt away and made an impact why should we expect any less from a number one pick making 56 million bucks

texansfaninla
09-11-2006, 03:16 PM
AGREED. It was a horrible pick - maybe the worst of all time.

texansfaninla
09-11-2006, 03:19 PM
Ditka just said it all on ESPN:

"The Texans were stone cold brain dead for passing on Bush."

Amen.

JDizzle
09-11-2006, 03:28 PM
I think it's about time to call this thread what it really is:

"We're still not over our Reggie man-crush."

I was gonna call BS on this, but then I read this post :

Williams has BUST written all over him. First thing out of the gate was he had bad toenails and couldn't practice. Anyone ever heard of any NFL player (or big time college player, for that matter) have that problem? "Well, his feet keep getting stepped on." No crap. So do a lot of players, especially those on the lines. Then he got put on his back in the preseason by KYLE TURLEY, who hasn't played in TWO YEARS.

He hasn't done a damn thing in a Texans uniform to show he was worthy of even a top 10 pick. Nothing. Anyone who argues otherwise is drinking battle red Kool-Aid and wearing Casserly Goggles. Plus, he hasn't shown he has any kind of strong motor to play every down from beginning to end. Quite the opposite, actually.

There was a reason nobody talked about him in college - he wasn't as good as his stats and his combine results. (A GREAT COMBINE DOESN'T WARRANT PASSING ON THE BEST PLAYER IN A GENERATION TO TAKE A RISK ON AN UNCELEBRATED PROJECT.)

Meanwhile, we have a desperate need for a running back with breakaway speed, and our OL could use some help with some distractions on offense.

WHY DIDN'T WE TAKE BUSH?????????????

"We don't need him, we have a system." Yeah - that showed Sunday. Seventy yards. Lundy was a second fiddle at Virginia, and Morency has been a dud for the most part. It's not a man crush - it's logic. Plain and simple. McNair apparently doesn't have it, which is why we are now 18-47 and building on the WORST START IN NFL EXPANSION HISTORY.

MARIO WILLIAMS = THE SECOND COMING OF AUNDRAY BRUCE

(Or, since some are comparing Mario to basketball, THE SECOND COMING OF SAM BOWIE.)

I have no problem with people saying Mario stunk yesterday, because he did, but this has troll written all over it. Heck, this is just recycled troll poo from post-draft trolls who recycled the same argument from popular media blowhards. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 03:32 PM
I was gonna call BS on this, but then I read this post :


I have no problem with people saying Mario stunk yesterday, because he did, but this has troll written all over it. Heck, this is just recycled troll poo from post-draft trolls who recycled the same argument from popular media blowhards. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

Look around a little bit. A lot of these same people that keep slamming Mario turn up to defend Bush anytime a negative word is said about him.

real
09-11-2006, 03:42 PM
Look around a little bit. A lot of these same people that keep slamming Mario turn up to defend Bush anytime a negative word is said about him.

Thats because the logic and reasining on this board are out...of...whack....

Belittle what Reggie does..."he played against the Titans" "He played against the Browns"

Have blind eyes when it comes to Mario..."He played one of the better O-lines" "He's just a rookie" "did you expect him to play like a stud ? "

Get...outta...town...

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 03:44 PM
Thats because the logic and reasining on this board are out...of...whack....


I think that this one thing we agree on.

Vambo, the Marble Eye
09-11-2006, 03:48 PM
[QUOTE=xtruroyaltyx]Thats because the logic and reasoning on this board are out...of...whack....
QUOTE]


Ya just know Kubiak has no choice but to go to our message board for the answers. It is an easy place to search for inspiration and truth...

real
09-11-2006, 03:53 PM
I think that this one thing we agree on.

No. We agree Mario Sucked on Sunday....I just think that there is reason for concern, and you think it meant nothing....

srstex
09-11-2006, 03:57 PM
According to people who know football, Running Back is the EASIEST transitionable position, and that makes RB a good first round pick, NOT TO SAY ALL FIRST ROUND RB will be what they were in College, just a statement of fact. If you ask any D-Line or O-Line guy they will tell you the strength difference between college and NFL is HUGE. Mario has to learn the NFL and needs to learn on the fly to make a difference this year. I believe we saw the coaching staff let the players down as much as the reverse.
As for the play fake of the century, When a receiver is still in his route, the Safty should have thought,( at least,) Now that's something you don't see everyday, a receiver running down field for no reason on a running play ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 03:58 PM
No. We agree Mario Sucked on Sunday....I just think that there is reason for concern, and you think it meant nothing....

By your standard, Julius Peppers, Dwight Freeney, and Javon Kearse sucked too. They all put up similar numbers to MW's their first game as pros.

Their teams didn't pass over Reggie Bush, though. So they can't suck. That's not possible.

real
09-11-2006, 04:02 PM
According to people who know football, Running Back is the EASIEST transitionable position, and that makes RB a good first round pick, NOT TO SAY ALL FIRST ROUND RB will be what they were in College, just a statement of fact. If you ask any D-Line or O-Line guy they will tell you the strength difference between college and NFL is HUGE. Mario has to learn the NFL and needs to learn on the fly to make a difference this year. I believe we saw the coaching staff let the players down as much as the reverse.
As for the play fake of the century, When a receiver is still in his route, the Safty should have thought,( at least,) Now that's something you don't see everyday, a receiver running down field for no reason on a running play ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

You ever heard of running a DB off ? They do it all the time...Not making exscuses for CC, but recievers often go into routes on running plays to run DB's out of the picture...

real
09-11-2006, 04:06 PM
By your standard, Julius Peppers, Dwight Freeney, and Javon Kearse sucked too. They all put up similar numbers to MW's their first game as pros.

Their teams didn't pass over Reggie Bush, though. So they can't suck. That's not possible.

I didn't watch any of those guys their first game...But i did watch everyone of their drafts and none of em walked across the stage first other than Mario...I don't consider Freeney the Caliber DE Mario is supposed to be...Mario is supposed to stop the run and the pass...And like I said I don't know how those guys looked their first day, and Mario only having 3 tackles doesn't bother me...the problem is that he looked unimpressive and overmatched on ever single down....3 tackles doesn't mean he sucks...it could mean other people make the play before him.... his down right pitiful play has me worried....

texansfaninla
09-11-2006, 04:15 PM
I love how I'm identified as a "troll" and my posts deleted (see the quoted post above) when I'm just STATING THE OBVIOUS. Award me no points...have mercy on my soul...but what I wrote is the truth. Sorry it gets deleted and IDed as "troll". I don't toe the "company line" and think it was an enormous mistake of franchise-defining proportion to take Mario first overall.

(EDIT - my posts are now back on the thread.)

cred
09-11-2006, 04:16 PM
It is kind of funny about all this pesamism (sorry about spelling), me I like to be a realist. But who in there right mind makes a monumental decision to decide if a player is a bust with one game. Is there a possibility that he could be a "bust", yes. Is there a possibility that he could be great, as well? Yes.

I also have a few words for all the Mario Williams haters, and everyone with a Reggie Bush man crush................Ki-Jana Carter, RB, Penn State (#1 pick of 1995 Draft).

I am just saying it is *WAY* to early to say anything about any of the draft picks of this year!!!!!!!

real
09-11-2006, 04:20 PM
It is kind of funny about all this pesamism (sorry about spelling), me I like to be a realist. But who in there right mind makes a monumental decision to decide if a player is a bust with one game. Is there a possibility that he could be a "bust", yes. Is there a possibility that he could be great, as well? Yes.

I also have a few words for all the Mario Williams haters, and everyone with a Reggie Bush man crush................Ki-Jana Carter, RB, Penn State (#1 pick of 1995 Draft).
I am just saying it is *WAY* to early to say anything about any of the draft picks of this year!!!!!!!

Courtney Brown....

How about having some kind of reasoning and not just spitting out "because I said so statements"....

real
09-11-2006, 04:24 PM
I too think it is foolish to try and judge a players Career from one game...But is it foolish to have concerns after seeing such a pitiful performance from our #1 Pick ?

Kaiser Toro
09-11-2006, 04:25 PM
The whole group was a bust yesterday for a 15 minute stretch. Outside of that the only thing crazier than Mario being a bust are the people promoting that notion after one game. Watch the game again and tell me how a D linemen can make the difference people are expecting on a QB orchestrating a 3 step drop and screen passes to perfection?

The defense made no visible adjustments and even if they did McNabb was to much in a zone in my opinion for it to make a difference.

cred
09-11-2006, 04:37 PM
Courtney Brown....

How about having some kind of reasoning and not just spitting out "because I said so statements"....


This was not a "because I said so statement". It was just an observation of comparing a RB to a DE. I also almost see your point about Courtney Brown. But let me ask you this, is it easier to have a stud RB or a stud DE. What is more prevalent in the NFL. I ask this question because I always thought you could get a servicable back after the first round. (I.E. any of the Denver RB's over 1000 yards in the past 6-7 years. Even Portis was in the second round).

Honoring Earl 34
09-11-2006, 04:42 PM
Has anyone mentioned that yesterday was Kubiak's first real game as HC or that this was Smiths first game as DC . The whole team probably tossed and turned all night .


I think we should have drafted Ngata instead of Mario . He intercepted a pass and ran it back 60 yds . If he's not playing NT ... he can play safety , and you people are worried Mario's got to learn DE/DT . Ngata's the man .

ps. I drafted Ngata ahead of Mario in Jan. in our MB mock for the Packers . I drafted Ernie Sims in the 2nd , Charles Spencer in the 3rd , and Jerious Norwood in the 4th .

real
09-11-2006, 04:44 PM
This was not a "because I said so statement". It was just an observation of comparing a RB to a DE. I also almost see your point about Courtney Brown. But let me ask you this, is it easier to have a stud RB or a stud DE. What is more prevalent in the NFL. I ask this question because I always thought you could get a servicable back after the first round. (I.E. any of the Denver RB's over 1000 yards in the past 6-7 years. Even Portis was in the second round).

I agree...I like the pick of Mario over Bush...It's risky, but if Mario Pans out he will have been the biggest help to OUR TEAM....

cred
09-11-2006, 04:53 PM
I agree...I like the pick of Mario over Bush...It's risky, but if Mario Pans out he will have been the biggest help to OUR TEAM....


I am curious, if you agree with me, why were you busting on me. :hairpull:

Malloy
09-11-2006, 04:56 PM
Is there a possibility that he could be a "bust", yes. Is there a possibility that he could be great, as well? Yes.


My guess is, it'll be one or the other, not both :)

real
09-11-2006, 04:57 PM
I am curious, if you agree with me, why were you busting on me. :hairpull:

Im funny like that...I do think Mario will overcome his problems...But Im not going to sit around and act like it's a given or theres no need for concern...because there is...Everyone automatically assumes that because you bash a texan..you are a troll, Love VY, Love RB, and hate D.Carr...I just don't like when our players play poor and Mario did not play close to the level expected and I think that should be acknowledged...

run-david-run
09-11-2006, 06:20 PM
Nope, but when i see a defensive player who was drafted #1 overall (over a once in a lifetime back) and he does ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING in 3 preseason games and 1 regular season game, I am going to be concerned. Not only did he have 0 sacks and only 3 tackles, but our supposedly improved defense game up 400 yards.

ABSOLUTELY PATHETIC!
Your once in a lifetime back averaged about 4 yards a carry and 6 yards a catch...groundbreaking stuff
Just because Reggie's PR fir....i mean ESPN blew it out of proportion, dosnt mean he was that great. Good? Yes. Once in a lifetime? How about getting in the endzone at least once? (Yet to do it in five games)

I know that at this point i come off as a Reggie hater, but I have nothing against the guy. I simply detest the fact ESPN is so commited to him, no matter the results, and wastes no 15 yard catch or 9 yard run to shove this huge "mistake" down our throat.

Vinny
09-13-2006, 10:13 AM
I took a good look at the game and I feel a little better about Mario now that I ran it in super slow motion, but I still came away from that tape with a poor overall impression.

I'll break some of the snaps down later in my "recorded game thread"...when I get some time.

TexansFanatic
09-13-2006, 10:23 AM
Mario has too much to think about. He should be left at defensive end and be allowed to pin his ears back and rush the quarterback. That's what we brought him here to do and that's virtually what he was born to do.

I found a Kubiak quote in the Chronicle where he essentially contradicts himself in nearly consecutive sentences:

"The thing we don't want to lose sight of is that he's very athletic, and when he has a chance to take a gap and create some havoc and get to the quarterback, sometimes I think he gets a little apprehensive, assignment-wise, instead of cutting it loose.

"We've got to get him to cut it loose in some of those situations."

"That's something we debate every day," Kubiak said. "I don't think moving him around has hurt him. He shows no signs of the mental part bothering him. If we think that keeping him at one spot makes him more effective, then we'll do that, too."

OK.....so if the mental part is not bothering him, then why is he getting a little apprehensive assignment-wise and not cutting it loose?

Bsacamano
09-13-2006, 10:33 AM
I'm going to give him until week four to start showing SOMETHING. If he doesn't do it by them, I'm going to start calling him either Sorryo or Bustio

powerfuldragon
09-13-2006, 10:35 AM
...I'm going to start calling him either Sorryo or Bustio
Heh... our cheerleaders are busty, yo.


:backsout:

Mr. White
09-13-2006, 10:38 AM
Mario has too much to think about. He should be left at defensive end and be allowed to pin his ears back and rush the quarterback. That's what we brought him here to do and that's virtually what he was born to do.

I found a Kubiak quote in the Chronicle where he essentially contradicts himself in nearly consecutive sentences:

"The thing we don't want to lose sight of is that he's very athletic, and when he has a chance to take a gap and create some havoc and get to the quarterback, sometimes I think he gets a little apprehensive, assignment-wise, instead of cutting it loose.

"We've got to get him to cut it loose in some of those situations."

"That's something we debate every day," Kubiak said. "I don't think moving him around has hurt him. He shows no signs of the mental part bothering him. If we think that keeping him at one spot makes him more effective, then we'll do that, too."

OK.....so if the mental part is not bothering him, then why is he getting a little apprehensive assignment-wise and not cutting it loose?

I remember the last coach we had....a Defensive Coordinator who was trying to exert some control over the offense...at least according to the Chronic. Ill-advised , IMO.

Wasn't really his department. The defense had enough problems that he should have applied his expertise there.

I hope that history isn't repeating itself here.

thunderkyss
09-13-2006, 10:44 AM
Mario has too much to think about. He should be left at defensive end and be allowed to pin his ears back and rush the quarterback. That's what we brought him here to do and that's virtually what he was born to do.

I found a Kubiak quote in the Chronicle where he essentially contradicts himself in nearly consecutive sentences:

"The thing we don't want to lose sight of is that he's very athletic, and when he has a chance to take a gap and create some havoc and get to the quarterback, sometimes I think he gets a little apprehensive, assignment-wise, instead of cutting it loose.

"We've got to get him to cut it loose in some of those situations."

"That's something we debate every day," Kubiak said. "I don't think moving him around has hurt him. He shows no signs of the mental part bothering him. If we think that keeping him at one spot makes him more effective, then we'll do that, too."

OK.....so if the mental part is not bothering him, then why is he getting a little apprehensive assignment-wise and not cutting it loose?

I don't think Kubiak is contradicting himself there. & that's exactly what I see with Mario. Whether he was at tackle, or DE, he got into the backfield, but looked lost when he did. He doesn't have the killer instinct...... he should be thinking kill the QB on every down.....

maul the RB if he's in your way...... great if he has the ball, but if he don't oh well..
Sunday, Mario would get in the backfield free, look for the RB, see if he has the ball, then decide what he wants to do.

That isn't going to get it.

Then there were times when he'd lock up with a Tackle, a DE, or a TE, and try to prove that he is stronger of the two....... who cares who's stronger, shuck him off, and proceed to the QB...

He appears to me, to be thinking about the man in front of him. If that man blocks someone other than Mario(because of their scheme) Mario is lost for a second or two, trying to figure out what he wants to do.

Then if he's doubled, he wants to show that he's stronger than the two...... again, who cares.

He needs to forget about that guy in front of him, and keep his eyes in the backfield. Never take his eyes off the QB. Run through the man in front of him, and get the QB.

Babin did this very well... whether he got tied up, or was trying to get around the man in front of him, he's looking at the backfield. he sees the RB running past him, he'll toss the guy he's working on, and get the RB.....

I think Babin again was awesome, he has some improvement to do, but he's going to be an awesome DE.

Mario...... you could see his speed..... when he used his speed. You could see his power...... when he used his power... but he wasn't playing very smart or aggressive. He definitely has the potential to be much better than Babin. But Babin is better than him now, and when those two figure it out, we will have a fearsome D.