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Goldeagle
09-10-2006, 03:46 PM
How do you people think he did?

Ibar_Harry
09-10-2006, 03:49 PM
How do you people think he did?

I have the same question? People are posting that the O-line played somewhat poorly today? What appeared to be the problem? Do we miss Wand after all?

Goldeagle
09-10-2006, 03:49 PM
From a TV standpoint he seemed ok, overwhelmed at times.

Reddevil63
09-10-2006, 03:54 PM
Some good, some bad, looked like a rookie, but people have to remember we have alot of those so mistakes are gonna happen. The future looks bright though.

Goldeagle
09-10-2006, 03:56 PM
Is it me or does it seem like McKenney looks lost at times?

run-david-run
09-10-2006, 03:57 PM
Cant really say, tv broadcast didnt give much chance to see. However, we had a couple of sacks coming from the blindside, dont know if that was his fault. However, unlike last year, I dont expect Carr to get sacked everytime he drops back. I think by the half-way point of the season we are going to be a very good offense.

Divebomb
09-10-2006, 03:57 PM
I saw a play where McKinney was blocking and all of the sudden he squatted down and Carr threw a pass right over his head, it was awsome kinda Ninja!:redtowel:

utahmark
09-10-2006, 03:59 PM
i thought spencer looked pretty good from what i saw.

Divebomb
09-10-2006, 03:59 PM
Spencer was good, kinda hard to pick up three guys comming off the weak side as a LT. He has alot of power for a rookie. He is going to be a force in the weeks to come.

The Pencil Neck
09-10-2006, 04:01 PM
How do you people think he did?

Without going back over the game and not specifically watching him, I thought he looked like a very good rookie. He had a false start but no other problems I can remember offhand. I don't think any of the sacks were his fault.

So... thumbs up, I think.

Goldeagle
09-10-2006, 04:01 PM
Good to know he looked decent, I dont blame him for not picking up the blitz but watching on TV you dont get the full view of the game.

Is Winston ready to take Weigerts place? Heck he will be injured soon enough.

gtexan02
09-10-2006, 04:06 PM
From ESPN, "Houston's supposedly improved offensive line gave up five sacks -- the same as in the 2005 opener -- and the Texans didn't score in the second half. Trent Cole had two sacks as the Eagles took advantage of rookie left tackle Charles Spencer."

Looks like he gave up 2 sacks. That is unbelievably terrible, if its correct

Grubber119
09-10-2006, 04:07 PM
I thoought he played very inconsistent. He got beat several time and Carr was able to get out of it..I thought the o-line overal looked horrible. no push on runs and they picked up the blitzes poorly

LORK 88
09-10-2006, 04:11 PM
He looked like a rookie like others said. What I liked from him though is his attitude. I constantly saw him in the faces of other players and he played with some fire in him. Its good to finally see some fight in our players.

Ibar_Harry
09-10-2006, 04:16 PM
I thoought he played very inconsistent. He got beat several time and Carr was able to get out of it..I thought the o-line overal looked horrible. no push on runs and they picked up the blitzes poorly

This is the problem with the zone scheme, despite what people say, it is not known for protecting the QB. Any time you have a scheme there are strengths and weaknesses. The zone scheme is ment to support a fine running attack, but its weak point is blocking for a pocket passer. That's why a mobile QB is necessary. You can't block two different ways or you become predictable.

It would appear that our blocking didn't produce for our RB's, so we need to see why. It certainly is true that Philly has one of the better defensive units and we may simply were not ready to play that level of 'D' line.

pittbull
09-10-2006, 04:23 PM
If you really look at the game, it was the right side of the line that was horrible. Kubiak kept making adjustments with Weary and McKinney, and neither played well. Spencer didn't play like an all-pro, but didn't give up a sack to a VERY GOOD D-LINE!

Ibar_Harry
09-10-2006, 04:25 PM
If you really look at the game, it was the right side of the line that was horrible. Kubiak kept making adjustments with Weary and McKinney, and neither played well. Spencer didn't play like an all-pro, but didn't give up a sack to a VERY GOOD D-LINE!

People are saying Spencer was responsible for 2 sacks. Which way is it?

Nordfan
09-10-2006, 04:27 PM
Nfl.com shows about the same report of Spencer as ESPN. I find it surprising that a 7-9 season in 2004, followed by a 2-14, and the only difference is the absence of Wand on the line, and you're screaming for a new left tackle. Well, he's here, and the handwriting's on the wall: first game 2005...5 sacks; first game 2006...5 sacks.

Htown34s
09-10-2006, 04:28 PM
People are saying Spencer was responsible for 2 sacks. Which way is it?

I didn't see that. I saw the entire left side of the line give a sack on a blitz, thats the only bad thing I saw his way.

I like Spencer, when he plays he looks incredibly strong.

infantrycak
09-10-2006, 05:22 PM
This is the problem with the zone scheme, despite what people say, it is not known for protecting the QB.

Stop friggin misinforming people. Zone blocking refers to run blocking and run blocking only. The scheme has zilch to do with pass blocking. The only reason some team's pass blocking has been affected is going with smaller OLmen who do less well when in pass protection. The Texans have not gone to an undersized OL as is pretty obvious looking at Spencer and Pitts on the left side.

Texans Horror
09-10-2006, 05:24 PM
Oh, man. I thought this was going to be another thread where we blame the loss on Seth Wand...

Tulip
09-10-2006, 05:26 PM
Do we miss Wand after all?

Um...no.

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
09-10-2006, 05:28 PM
Did not follow Spencer too much, but seemed ok except for the one penalty called on him.......Demeco Ryans on the other hand is going to be a animal !

Texans Horror
09-10-2006, 05:37 PM
But the scheme is built to facilitate a run game. What happened?

HJam72
09-10-2006, 05:40 PM
I think the reason we gave up 5 sacks is mostly due to the Iggles having a good D-line. Some of it is also because we are not going to go from the worst to one of the best in one off-season. I'm not really too worried about the sacks in this game and I think we have improved, but it's just not showing right now. Last year, we probly would've given up 8 sacks to that D.

What does worry me is no push in the running game and McNabb standing around day-dreaming and taking short naps in the pocket. He could've balanced his check book and decided on what European sports car to buy next before looking to see which receiver was behind the blown coverage. I've been feeling sick since about 1 minute to go in the first half. I knew they were gonna take a 14-10 lead and win in the trenches the whole second half. Our skills players can't do it all.

pittbull
09-10-2006, 06:04 PM
The sacks given up were on the right side of the O-line and a blitz scheme that the Eagles did on the left side. The Running back could be responsible for that,. Spencer player great for a rookie going up against a VERY GOOD EAGLES FRONT 4!

Texans Horror
09-10-2006, 06:09 PM
Wow! Are we finally willing to accept that the right side needs to be strengthened, not the left? Morency and Putzier both gave up sacks. The one I saw that you could "blame" on Spencer had two or three people lined up against him. IMO, there was nothing he could have done about it. DC should have seen that one coming.

phan1
09-10-2006, 06:41 PM
I didn't focus on individuals on the Oline but it was weak in general. Not terribly bad as it has been in some games, but definitely weak. Couldn't open any holes in the running game, and the pass protection was weak. Overall, very dissappointing performance, ESPECIALLY IN THE RUN DEPARTMENT. I haven't seen us run this bad since we discovered DD.

pittbull
09-10-2006, 06:47 PM
Wow! Are we finally willing to accept that the right side needs to be strengthened, not the left? Morency and Putzier both gave up sacks. The one I saw that you could "blame" on Spencer had two or three people lined up against him. IMO, there was nothing he could have done about it. DC should have seen that one coming.

Can't place me in that category. Seth Wand was horrible and Spencer was a huge upgrade. More athletic, stronger, quicker, & faster. I have been a Spencer supporter since DAY ONE. Saw him at Pitt over his entire career. McKinney is overrated and Weigart has never been that great of an lineman. Hope Spence proves all these people wrong. Does anyone ever really watch the game, or do they just listen to the announcers who don't break down tape while watching the game, just like us!!! If you know football, the right side of the line was horrible, taking away a pretty good day for Carr and the WR crew.

Goldeagle
09-10-2006, 06:49 PM
I agree about the run blocking, they did not seem like they wanted to smash someone in their face. If Spencer had that attitude then cool, but I saw 5 sacks -2 on the offense scheme putting PUTZier on Kearse and Carr tripping. That leaves 3 sacks on the O-line and that is debatable on blitz and so on. I just know the Eagles picked up our blitzes well.

I guess readin these comments, and I thank you, he can only get better.

Hervoyel
09-10-2006, 06:54 PM
Im not sure how Spencer look, but I know Wiegert look like crap today, I think its time to put in Winston.

Weigert got abused today. He's nowhere near quick enough to get the job done but who else do we have to put there? This is probably Weigerts last season here and since the teams in a transitional state right now that's fine.

Runner
09-10-2006, 07:08 PM
Spencer is a rookie, but he is our starting left tackle and should be evaluated as such. I have not re-watched the whole game, but I saw times when his man beat him on running plays and stopped the runner at the line.

Spencer did get beat in pass blocking at times, and I think he even got bull rushed into Carr at least once. There was a sack at the end of the first quarter (I think) that was on a blitz from the left. Spencer had one man blow past him on the left and another on the right while he blocked no one. Blitz or not, that was on him - he should block somebody.


Talking about how fast and strong he is is great, but judge him like you would any other guy out there. He's not the shiny new penny any more. Judge him by his game performance and results.

TEXANRED
09-10-2006, 07:16 PM
I was at the game and from what I saw Spencer did really well. Zack looked liked poo however. I just dont get why Zack is playing RT. Isnt he a guard?

Goldeagle
09-10-2006, 07:19 PM
I was at the game and from what I saw Spencer did really well. Zack looked liked poo however. I just dont get why Zack is playing RT. Isnt he a guard?

Yeah I am not sure, but anything is better than Todd Wade!

Thanks Charley!

Texans Horror
09-10-2006, 07:57 PM
Salaam is the backup before Winston, and Winston is a project who will need more time before he is put in. However, at this rate of debilitating line play, the coaches may be forced to put Salaam in. Reminds me of last year when, after three/four games, the coaching staff was forced to remove Riley. (Never thought I'd be comparing this year and last.)

infantrycak
09-10-2006, 08:04 PM
There was a sack at the end of the first quarter (I think) that was on a blitz from the left. Spencer had one man blow past him on the left and another on the right while he blocked no one. Blitz or not, that was on him - he should block somebody.

Nah. The D was stacked to that side. He did engage someone. The TE released without any blocks with two guys on his outside shoulder. Safety came in unblocked. That is one the coaches will have to diagnose as to what Carr saw and audibled and who was supposed to pick it up. Pretty sure it wasn't Spencer's fault.

Runner
09-10-2006, 08:11 PM
Nah. The D was stacked to that side. He did engage someone. The TE released without any blocks with two guys on his outside shoulder. Safety came in unblocked. That is one the coaches will have to diagnose as to what Carr saw and audibled and who was supposed to pick it up. Pretty sure it wasn't Spencer's fault.

Hmm. I rewound it and watched it twice. When I get a chance to watch the game again I'll get a time stamp. Maybe it was on a play that Carr unloaded it before getting hit. I'm not that delusional. (But how would I know?)

Sarg01
09-10-2006, 08:17 PM
I didn't see any sacks that looked like Spencer's fault. However, I didn't really see the 5th sack (was getting something to drink - needed it by that point).

I am certain that Putzier, Morency and Carr were each responsible for one sack. Kearse just ran around Putzier, Morency dove at a blitzer's feet and was jumped over and Carr tripped. The remaining sack that I saw, two linebackers hit Carr from the weakside, but the end didn't get through, and presumably Spencer would have gotten the end, not the blitzers.

Also, we must remember, that when people talk about Philly, they talk about McNabb and their "aggressive, blitzing defense"

Texans Horror
09-10-2006, 08:20 PM
JMO, but Spencer was pretty much ignored by the Eagles D. They didn't seem to be trying to go from the left too often. I think that's cause they discovered the right side early on.

Porky
09-10-2006, 08:59 PM
This is the problem with the zone scheme, despite what people say, it is not known for protecting the QB. Any time you have a scheme there are strengths and weaknesses. The zone scheme is ment to support a fine running attack, but its weak point is blocking for a pocket passer. That's why a mobile QB is necessary. You can't block two different ways or you become predictable.

It would appear that our blocking didn't produce for our RB's, so we need to see why. It certainly is true that Philly has one of the better defensive units and we may simply were not ready to play that level of 'D' line.

You are so clueless, it's almost embarassing. :rolleyes:

WILLIEG
09-10-2006, 10:56 PM
Overall Spencer did as good as a job as he could do I guess. I've even gone on the record to saying that he isn't our solution to the problem at the LT postion, however, he did an alright job today. He did allow a sack or two, but he's a rookie and is going to make some mistakes. On one of those sacks the Phily Def. overloaded the left side w/ rushers and he just let the guy on his inside fly by him. Our right side of the ball looked horrible. They should leave Weary in there and not substitute SM. Weigert was just plan bad. Again I would like to go on record and say Spencer is not the solution to our LT postion and is better suited for the Guard postion, however, since it is still early in the season I hope that I'm wrong and he proves he can handle his role. Our first half of the season is going to be rough for this kid since we play defences with really good DE's.

Runner
09-10-2006, 11:13 PM
Nah. The D was stacked to that side. He did engage someone. The TE released without any blocks with two guys on his outside shoulder. Safety came in unblocked. That is one the coaches will have to diagnose as to what Carr saw and audibled and who was supposed to pick it up. Pretty sure it wasn't Spencer's fault.

It was at 7:07 in the 2nd qtr. It wasn't as bad as I first thought (mea culpa) because the TE was in there too, but Spencer just turned and touched the guy as he went by.

utahmark
09-11-2006, 01:14 AM
will find out a little more about spencer when he lines up against freeny next week.

Texans Horror
09-11-2006, 12:36 PM
No we won't. Anything he does wrong will be blamed on him being a rookie and not a starting LT.

nunusguy
09-11-2006, 12:58 PM
will find out a little more about spencer when he lines up against freeny next week.
Dwight Freeney must love the Texans ! Probably seems like almost every time he suits up to play us, he gets a brand new rookie LT to dine on.
And then there's DC. Talk about your deja vu all over again. What are his thoughts about having another rook LT, only in his second start, covering his
blind side against Freeney up there in the Indy Dome. Carr looked pretty good yesterday, but if he starts to develope the yips and gets Fred Astaire feet all over again, I can't blame him one damn bit.

real
09-11-2006, 01:06 PM
Spencer did o.k...He played just as good as D'Brickshaw if not better...Da Brick gave up two sacks on opening day....

Texans Horror
09-11-2006, 02:57 PM
Okay won't cut it against Freeney. I'm hoping Spencer does better, but I think Kubiak has stacked the cards against him, and he will suffer for it.

WILLIEG
09-11-2006, 03:03 PM
Okay won't cut it against Freeney. I'm hoping Spencer does better, but I think Kubiak has stacked the cards against him, and he will suffer for it.
Couldn't agree more. Time will tell.

Double Barrel
09-11-2006, 04:25 PM
5 sacks X 16 games = 80 [potential] sacks for the season

Our o-line blows, and they'd better get it together quick before a lynch mob forms outside of Reliant.

2-3 of those sacks were blindsides on Carr. Dude didn't even see them coming. That is inexcusable. I thought Mike Sherman was the answer to our problems, but it's obvious now that this is beyond just a coaching failure. It's a lack of talent.

eric138
09-11-2006, 04:29 PM
I saw a play where McKinney was blocking and all of the sudden he squatted down and Carr threw a pass right over his head, it was awsome kinda Ninja!:redtowel:

I saw another play where McKinney wasn't even blocking, He was to busy laying on the football for a fumble recovery.. Go Texans... :redtowel:

real
09-11-2006, 04:32 PM
Flannagan is slow...

edo783
09-11-2006, 04:43 PM
Flannagan is slow...

Seemed that way to me also and more than a bit.....well, clumsy I think might be the right word.

kingh99
09-11-2006, 05:06 PM
Without going back over the game and not specifically watching him, I thought he looked like a very good rookie. He had a false start but no other problems I can remember offhand. I don't think any of the sacks were his fault.

So... thumbs up, I think.

He's a big ole stud. I took one look at him team open house day or whatever it was called and immediately sensed he would be a star player. He was a great pick IMHO. This year's draft was probably pretty solid. Yeah I am bagging on Williams like the rest but his position pays dividends 5-8 years. Hopefully he's adding value to the team long after Reggie has played his last down.

nunusguy
09-11-2006, 05:54 PM
Flannagan is slow...
Drew Hodgdon, our young 2nd year center, could be a nice fit in this system
over the longer term. I kinda wish they had not signed Flanagan so Hodgdon could have been accumulating valuable experience, as he looked
pretty good his rookie year before going out with the injury.
But Hodgdon is smallish, not a disadvantage with ZB, but quick, which is required for an OLineman to excel in the ZB.

Erratic Assassin
09-11-2006, 07:53 PM
Trent Cole had two sacks as the Eagles took advantage of rookie left tackle Charles Spencer."

Looks like he gave up 2 sacks. That is unbelievably terrible, if its correct

Kubiak wasted lots of reps in training camp on Seth Wand. Spencer could have used them.