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highroller28
09-10-2006, 02:11 PM
to a 100+ yard game.

The Texans are getting a great return on investment. One tackle so far.

Ckw
09-10-2006, 02:23 PM
And our running game has been pitiful. I've tried to be optimistic and look at the potential Mario has, but this just is not cutting it. We can't protect Carr and can't run the ball. Those two things together equal one thing: a loss.

gg no re
09-10-2006, 02:23 PM
I'll be nice and reply to your dying thread.

BlueThunder
09-10-2006, 02:39 PM
Who cares what Reggie Bush is which is so far barely average.The question for Bush is if he can hold up a full season 25 carries a game.Bush was taken way to early for a 3rd down back.

On the other hand Mario Williams will be a cornerstone in the defense for the next ten years.He will take this first season to develope but with a few chains rattling he will be a valuable part of the defense for a long time.

Go Houston!11 and 5:whip:


:party: :trophy: :logo:

gg no re
09-10-2006, 02:40 PM
Debate is mainly reruns from April.

TFL
09-10-2006, 02:54 PM
you can not knock a pick within the first year after 3-4 years is when you can usally call a pick a bust or a great one.

Mr. White
09-10-2006, 03:04 PM
Way to compare apples to oranges. Reggie Bush man-crush threads belong in the NFL Forum.

GrandPa
09-10-2006, 03:07 PM
141 total yards for Reggie in a RBBC situation

Of course Mario got 2 tackles and 1 assist

Great move Texans

Sportsfan
09-10-2006, 03:07 PM
Debate is mainly reruns from April.


Doesn't matter. 1 yr, 5 yrs, 10 yrs from now, it will still be the biggest mistake in NFL history.

gg no re
09-10-2006, 03:08 PM
What about Herschel Walker?

dtran04
09-10-2006, 03:11 PM
Jevon Kearse only got 1 tackle. He must suck. Darren Howard only got 2. He's as good as Mario.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

MrMeToo
09-10-2006, 03:12 PM
Jevon Kearse only got 1 tackle. He must suck. Darren Howard only got 2. He's as good as Mario.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Jevon Kearse didn't go ahead of Reggie Bush, did he?

Napa Auto Parts
09-10-2006, 03:13 PM
i tought kearse ended up with a sack as well.

gg no re
09-10-2006, 03:13 PM
Jevon Kearse was drafted way ahead of Reggie Bush.

Dime
09-10-2006, 03:14 PM
Doesn't matter. 1 yr, 5 yrs, 10 yrs from now, it will still be the biggest mistake in NFL history.


Wow.. then you should go and be a Saints fan..

NFLforher
09-10-2006, 03:21 PM
to a 100+ yard game.

The Texans are getting a great return on investment. One tackle so far.


This makes me ill. Why, why didn't we take Bush?

GrandPa
09-10-2006, 03:31 PM
Wow.. then you should go and be a Saints fan..
No Texans should have made the correct draft pick...

I still live in Houston not New Orleans, they just have what should be the Texans running back.

nunusguy
09-10-2006, 03:31 PM
Bush was only the Saints #2 running back today, as Mcalister had more
yards than him. As far as all rookie runners, Mahoney with NE had a better day than Bush.

dtran04
09-10-2006, 03:32 PM
I'm just curious as what a "good" day is. RB had an average day. MW had an average day.

Bronco Texan
09-10-2006, 03:38 PM
houston sports front offices never listen to the fans.


Yeah if they did the we would have VY here in Houston. :highfive:

Goldeagle
09-10-2006, 03:41 PM
Heck why did we not take D Brick.

tbell ncsu
09-10-2006, 03:42 PM
What in the Wide World of Sports is Going on Here?
by: Nooch

Mario Bowie was a Bad Pick
May 05, 2006 | 9:55AM

Ordinarily, I would say that the Houston Texans’ selection of Mario Bowie as the #1 overall pick in this year’s NFL Draft was a mistake. Except there was no Mario Bowie in this year’s NFL Draft. Or a Reggie Jordan, for that matter.
http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/Nooch/NFL_Draft/31913

Revolution
09-10-2006, 03:42 PM
this thread may die, but the debate rages on.


blah, blah, blah. There is no debate. The draft is over and we will not know if the Texans made the right decision for at least 5 years.

See me then....:ok:

:mario:

bigtex77
09-10-2006, 03:48 PM
You guys with the Reggie Bush man crushes need to let it go. It's getting ridiculous.

HoustonFan
09-10-2006, 03:50 PM
blah, blah, blah. There is no debate. The draft is over and we will not know if the Texans made the right decision for at least 5 years.

See me then....:ok:

:mario:

EXACTLY!!!!

But I want an opinion of how many yards reggie will get this year in his rookie season? 1,000, 1200, 1300? Just curious as to what you think.

tbell ncsu
09-10-2006, 03:56 PM
600 yards.

1. he is not an every down back.
2. he is a backup.
3. he is playing with the saints.

gg no re
09-10-2006, 03:57 PM
600 yards is a success by ESPN standards.

Mr. White
09-10-2006, 03:58 PM
Something to think about when the lights go out. We didn't need another GQ model.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e60/coreyvice/2006_08_18_reggie_bush.jpg

HoustonFan
09-10-2006, 03:59 PM
600 yards.

1. he is not an every down back.
2. he is a backup.
3. he is playing with the saints.

Only 600? Wow. I guess I was giving him way too much credit. :lol:

gg no re
09-10-2006, 04:00 PM
That six-pack drives me wild.

Shader
09-10-2006, 04:00 PM
To all of you guys saying there is no debate...

There IS a debate and that's the problem! You are going to have people come on this board for the next 10 years and whine about Reggie Bush. There is no excuse for the pick. Only a serious injury for Bush will keep it from being one of the worst picks in history.

The entire world sees it as a bad pick. Just admit it and move on.

tbell ncsu
09-10-2006, 04:03 PM
houstonfan, besides the reason i gave, which are all legitimate, reggie hasn't shown in any of the preseason games or today's that he'll be a 1,000 yard rusher.

why don't you answer your own question, and give us some reasons as to why you feel he'll get however many rushing yards you're predicting.

Shader
09-10-2006, 04:04 PM
600 yards.

1. he is not an every down back.
2. he is a backup.
3. he is playing with the saints.

600 yards huh...Well he's got 121 rushing and receiving yards after game one...........

bigtex77
09-10-2006, 04:07 PM
600 yards huh...Well he's got 121 rushing and receiving yards after game one...........


Against a powerhouse D. too.:rolleyes:

Shader
09-10-2006, 04:08 PM
I'm just wondering when this board is going to finally admit that Bush is going to be a great player. Closing your eyes to reality makes you guys appear childish.

Texan
09-10-2006, 04:09 PM
:hunter: 600 yards.

1. he is not an every down back.
2. he is a backup.
3. he is playing with the saints.


That's a ridiculous estimate. He's a back up right now & got 142 yards. He'll move to the # 1 back in time.

He's by far & away a higher impact player right now that Mario. That doesn't mean that Mario won't turn into one.

The best thing about today was Demeco Ryans. He was great. At least they made one good pick.

Wolf
09-10-2006, 04:10 PM
D-line kept the OL off of Demeco.. that is what they do.. Demeco had a good game.. problem comes when CB's are making more plays then the Dl

Hardcore Texan
09-10-2006, 04:11 PM
There sure are a lot of experts on this MB today, fickle ones at that. :brickwall

tbell ncsu
09-10-2006, 04:11 PM
maybe i should've clarified in that post. reggie bush will have 600 yards RUSHING during his rookie season.

He's by far & away a higher impact player right now that Mario.
thank you, shannon sharpe. in my world of football, running backs are pretty much always a higher impact player than a defensive end. the only exception that i can think of is julius peppers, and that would really depend on which running back you're comparing him to.

bigtex77
09-10-2006, 04:11 PM
I'm just wondering when this board is going to finally admit that Bush is going to be a great player. Closing your eyes to reality makes you guys appear childish.

I'm not saying that he won't be a great player, but he had a great day against a sub-par defense. Bottom line.

Mr. White
09-10-2006, 04:21 PM
We've heard this ad nauseam. I'll repeat it anyway. RB's make a quicker impact on a team, but have shorter careers. They're also a lot more that are available each draft.

D-Linemen are slower to make an impact. Their careers tend to be a lot longer than RB's. They also don't come around as often. Charley Casserly said as much today in the CBS pregame. Just because he didn't make 4 sacks and 12 tackles today doesn't mean he's a bust. Mario's gonna draw double teams leaving other guys available to make tackles for now.

You can't compare these guys to basketball players. 2 totally different games. D-Linemen usually don't score. They don't run for yards and don't catch passes. Like I said...apples to oranges.

Watch Dwight Freeney run roughshod all over our offense next week and you'll see what the Texans were thinking when they took Mario.

Texans Pride
09-10-2006, 04:22 PM
Why is this lame thread in the TEXANS section?

Mr. White
09-10-2006, 04:26 PM
I think all the mods are at the game. I expect this thread will move soon enough to a the NFL forum and die quietly.

TheCD
09-10-2006, 04:29 PM
He'll move to the # 1 back in time.



If I were a Saints fan and Reggie Bush got the nod ahead of Deuce...I would be absolutely pissed.

Bush is a flashy player who's NOT a #1 running back. He's great at using open space to make guys miss as well as sliding out and playing WR. He's NOT good at powering the football between the guards to get that tough 1st down. Look at the championship game against UT...they went to White instead.

That's not to say he's not good or doesn't have talent. But Reggie Bush isn't perfect, he has flaws in his game that just won't allow him to do certain things (i.e. carry the ball 25+ times). Anyone who thinks he can do that is being entirely unrealistic. How successful is Vick when he's stuck inside the pocket for an entire game? His abilities simply do not complement a pure passing game.


Texans fans...we picked Mario Williams. Get over it. I've said this before and I'll say it again...if you think we needed Bush then you didn't want Kubiak. Our running system HATES flashy backs like Bush. And while for a year or two we might be pining for a flashy back, once our offensive line begins to click, we'll see just how much cap room we'll save each year in being able to use a highly effective RBBC system. With the money we could save from not taking Bush, we might just be able to find some killer DB's in the future. Have hope! :fans:

NFLforher
09-10-2006, 04:33 PM
Something to think about when the lights go out. We didn't need another GQ model.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e60/coreyvice/2006_08_18_reggie_bush.jpg


Ohhh. Looks good. :)

Titan "Tack" Fan
09-10-2006, 04:38 PM
Reggie is amazing and everyone knows it. He has amazing hands for a running back and he makes plays.

Insideop
09-10-2006, 05:10 PM
If I were a Saints fan and Reggie Bush got the nod ahead of Deuce...I would be absolutely pissed.

Bush is a flashy player who's NOT a #1 running back. He's great at using open space to make guys miss as well as sliding out and playing WR. He's NOT good at powering the football between the guards to get that tough 1st down. Look at the championship game against UT...they went to White instead.

That's not to say he's not good or doesn't have talent. But Reggie Bush isn't perfect, he has flaws in his game that just won't allow him to do certain things (i.e. carry the ball 25+ times). Anyone who thinks he can do that is being entirely unrealistic. How successful is Vick when he's stuck inside the pocket for an entire game? His abilities simply do not complement a pure passing game.


Texans fans...we picked Mario Williams. Get over it. I've said this before and I'll say it again...if you think we needed Bush then you didn't want Kubiak. Our running system HATES flashy backs like Bush. And while for a year or two we might be pining for a flashy back, once our offensive line begins to click, we'll see just how much cap room we'll save each year in being able to use a highly effective RBBC system. With the money we could save from not taking Bush, we might just be able to find some killer DB's in the future. Have hope! :fans:


Ding, ding, ding, ding! You've just won the sixty four million dollar question! Couldn't have said it better myself!

Unless all you whinny little babies who have the man-love for Bush or Young have a time machine, I suggest you all either shut up or get off the Texans bus and get on the bus headed back to N.O. or budville! If you don't support the Mario pick then you don't support Kubiak, and you are NOT a Texan fan! :challenge

Kubiak has a plan for building this team and it starts with the LINES! It's going to take time for the O-line and D-line to develop. Philly won the battle in the trenches today, and that is why they won the game. It may take us a year or two to get all the pieces in place, but like they say, Rome wasn't built in a day! JMHO!

Tale Gator
09-10-2006, 06:50 PM
Bush might have been a better fit in the Houston offensive than Wally Lundy -- he looked very all NFL today.

Wolf
09-10-2006, 07:04 PM
philly's defense looked more NFL super bowl ready than Clevelands defense

hot pickle
09-10-2006, 09:12 PM
Peppers ony had 3 tackles today

Peppers must be a bust :ok:

RiotCommander
09-10-2006, 09:32 PM
Peppers ony had 3 tackles today

Peppers must be a bust :ok:


Let me say the obvious reply that every mario hater is thinking. Yeah! but he isnt our #1 overall pick is he!!


*sigh* I feel sorry for Mario right now.

Huge
09-11-2006, 07:20 AM
Who cares what Reggie Bush is which is so far barely average.The question for Bush is if he can hold up a full season 25 carries a game.Bush was taken way to early for a 3rd down back.
Why would Bush have to prove he can handle 25 carries a game? Shaun Alexander led the league last year in attempts per game and he was barely over 23 per game.

Ladainian Tomlinson has yet to prove he can carry the ball 25 times per game (highest in his career was 23.25 per game back in '02) for a full season. Is the jury still out on him?

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 09:45 AM
The SF was the Bush Bowl for a reason. Immediate results is what the Texans should've been shooting for. The fanbase has waited long enough.

Bush would've gotten stuffed yesterday by the Eagles D. Then he'd be a bust.

We've waited a whole 4 years for the next Gale Sayers/Barry Sanders.

BTW, how many Super Bowls did those guys win?

SheTexan
09-11-2006, 10:19 AM
I'm just wondering when this board is going to finally admit that Bush is going to be a great player. Closing your eyes to reality makes you guys appear childish.

Geeeeeezzzzzz, he couldn't get a 100 rushing yds against the BROWNS!!!!! I doubt he would have gotten 50 yds against the D we played yesterday!! Yep, I'm losing sleep worrying over the fact that we did not take RB!! :sarcasm:

Frills
09-11-2006, 11:22 AM
He played against friggin Cleveland, the powerhouse of the AFC Central.

Put him against a decent opponent, he has massive issues.

real
09-11-2006, 11:30 AM
He played against friggin Cleveland, the powerhouse of the AFC Central.

Put him against a decent opponent, he has massive issues.

Don't belittle what he did in order to make yourself seem correct...Reggie is a great player and he is going to do great things...

real
09-11-2006, 11:31 AM
Geeeeeezzzzzz, he couldn't get a 100 rushing yds against the BROWNS!!!!! I doubt he would have gotten 50 yds against the D we played yesterday!! Yep, I'm losing sleep worrying over the fact that we did not take RB!! :sarcasm:

150 all purpose>100 rushing...no matter how you spin it...

jerek
09-11-2006, 12:07 PM
Don't belittle what he did in order to make yourself seem correct...Reggie is a great player and he is going to do great things...

He wasn't "belittling" what he did any more than he was trying to offer a context for the performance. When Reggie consistently puts up those numbers against respected and established defenses, then (it would seem to me) it'd be more appropriate to talk about what a stellar performance it is. There's nothing wrong with celebrating a favorite player's performance but a lot of these hyperbolic predictions that are accompanying it seems premature IMO. Of course, hyperbole is just par for the Reggie course.

HowBoutThemCowboys!
09-11-2006, 12:11 PM
After each one of Bush's big games, all of you bring up the same old excuse-- the team he was playing.

You guys need to understand, the transition from the college game to the NFL as far as opposing defenses is tremondous.. the Browns defense is probably triple the skill level compared to Texas's D.. guys have size, speed in the 40, the talent to be apart of the 1800 best players and athletes in the world.. The fact Bush has already ammased 150 yards after one game, is amazing. This is New Orlean's gift from the Football gods from suffering so. Houston made the mistake of a lifetime.

jlam
09-11-2006, 01:57 PM
Hopefully by the time N.O. comes here next year there will at least be some basis for arguement in this debate. At this point, everything is pure speculation, and in my opinion you guys are a little to quick to choose one extreme side or the other. Bush doesn't suck (and neither does the Browns' D for that matter) and Mario still has plenty of adjusting to do to the NFL game before he deserves to be blasted as hard as he has been. Take it easy guys.

real
09-11-2006, 02:24 PM
He wasn't "belittling" what he did any more than he was trying to offer a context for the performance. When Reggie consistently puts up those numbers against respected and established defenses, then (it would seem to me) it'd be more appropriate to talk about what a stellar performance it is. There's nothing wrong with celebrating a favorite player's performance but a lot of these hyperbolic predictions that are accompanying it seems premature IMO. Of course, hyperbole is just par for the Reggie course.

No he did belittle it...All I hear are exscuse for why Mario played bad...Eagles had good team...good O-line....yada yada....Whenever Reggie does something...ah shucks he was playing the Browns....The Browns are an NFL team...putting something in context is saying his college stats don't carry over, or his pre-season meant nothing....He belittled his performance against an NFL team that counts....He has 150 all purpose on the season...Mario has 3 tackles....thats keepin it in context...

GoneTexan
09-11-2006, 03:21 PM
You know what's Sad? People should be comparing "Apples" with "Apples"...

OK then: Reggie played the BROWNS and has his stats
Wali played the EAGLES and has his stats....

Wali play the BROWNS and Reggie will be playing EAGLES too.

Now lets compare final stats for the these same games on the schedule:

Washington, NYG, Dallas ... (Philadelphia & Cleveland)


I know Wali Lundy will have better STATS and YARDS, but I guess I am just a :homer:

GO 2006 TEXANS!

donato
09-11-2006, 05:39 PM
So Wali Lundy is going to have over 150 yards against Cleveland? :pigfly:

Don't forget the Saints used Deuce McAllister effectively in conjunction with Bush. Deuce ran for over 90 yards himself.

gg no re
09-11-2006, 06:11 PM
150 yards of offense? Sounds inflated.

I mean, those 22 foo-foo punt return yards really beef up that number.

Realistically, it was a 119 yard performance against the Browns with his rushing/receiving combined.

But who cares? I'm just trying to spin numbers.

I just want to note that Bush was the leading receiver on the team in yards and catches, and by averaging 7 ypc, I'd be worried about the Saints offense if all they can do in the passing game is dump it off to their RB.

Sounds pretty familiar right there. :hmmm:

All I know is that we have one more week of Bush-riders to listen to, then hopefully Atlanta will show the Saints a legitimate NFL defense.....

mvtrucking
09-11-2006, 06:56 PM
Who cares what Reggie Bush is which is so far barely average.The question for Bush is if he can hold up a full season 25 carries a game.Bush was taken way to early for a 3rd down back.

On the other hand Mario Williams will be a cornerstone in the defense for the next ten years.He will take this first season to develope but with a few chains rattling he will be a valuable part of the defense for a long time.

Go Houston!11 and 5:whip:


:party: :trophy: :logo:

141 Total yards is a bit better than average. Look for him to eclipse 200 against the Pack next week. Grrr

Huge
09-11-2006, 07:15 PM
Bush would've gotten stuffed yesterday by the Eagles D. Then he'd be a bust.

We've waited a whole 4 years for the next Gale Sayers/Barry Sanders.

BTW, how many Super Bowls did those guys win?
How many Super Bowls has Julius Peppers (the player Mario Williams is often compared to) won?

I'm not saying that he won't be a great player, but he had a great day against a sub-par defense. Bottom line.
He played against friggin Cleveland, the powerhouse of the AFC Central.

Put him against a decent opponent, he has massive issues.
If you're going to discuss the level of talent he was facing, shouldn't you also mention the level of talent he's playing with? As bad as Cleveland is, they still drafted lower than New Orleans this past April.

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 07:25 PM
How many Super Bowls has Julius Peppers (the player Mario Williams is often compared to) won?


He's been to more than Barry Sanders or Gale Sayers. So have Javon Kearse, Reggie White and Bruce Smith. I'll get back to you on Dwight Freeney. Thought I'd throw them in there too since Mario gets compared to them.

I'm not sure that you get my point. If your RB is on a Madden cover, there's a pretty good chance that he's tying up a lot of cap space that could be better spent elsewhere.

Huge
09-11-2006, 08:04 PM
He's been to more than Barry Sanders or Gale Sayers. So have Javon Kearse, Reggie White and Bruce Smith. I'll get back to you on Dwight Freeney. Thought I'd throw them in there too since Mario gets compared to them.
Four defensive ends have been to more Super Bowls than two running backs. Shocking.

Gale Sayers played between '65-'71. Super Bowls were started in '67. He only appeared in 2 games in each of the '70 and '71 seasons. That gives him a whopping 3 years of having a chance of making it to a Super Bowl.

But Reggie's also been compared to Marshall Faulk. He's been to two...winning one of them.

If I ran down the list of 1st round RBs that have appeared in Super Bowls, how would that compare to the 1st round DEs?

Just off the top of my head, I think the number of RBs would come out on top.
I'm not sure that you get my point. If your RB is on a Madden cover, there's a pretty good chance that he's tying up a lot of cap space that could be better spent elsewhere.
As opposed to tying up a lot of cap space at defensive end?

Mr. White
09-11-2006, 08:30 PM
Four defensive ends have been to more Super Bowls than two running backs. Shocking.

Gale Sayers played between '65-'71. Super Bowls were started in '67. He only appeared in 2 games in each of the '70 and '71 seasons. That gives him a whopping 3 years of having a chance of making it to a Super Bowl.

But Reggie's also been compared to Marshall Faulk. He's been to two...winning one of them.

If I ran down the list of 1st round RBs that have appeared in Super Bowls, how would that compare to the 1st round DEs?

Just off the top of my head, I think the number of RBs would come out on top.

As opposed to tying up a lot of cap space at defensive end?


I'll be the first to admit that "this guy will go to the Super Bowl because he's like another guy who did go to the Super Bowl" argument is pretty lame.

But I'm convinced now. Please scoot over and make room so I can worship next to you at the altar of Reggie Bush.

Huge
09-11-2006, 09:32 PM
Actually, I'm not a fan of Reggie Bush. I think he's going to be a great player but I don't think he's the second coming.

I think the Texans made the right move in not drafting Bush. But I also think they made the wrong move in drafting Williams.

TheCD
09-12-2006, 12:54 AM
No matter how you cut it, approx. 150 yrds. of total offense far and away exceeds 3 tackles. I know that the Browns don't have the best defense, however, they are NFL professionals. Quit minimizing the guy's achievement. Nevermind he "only" had 61 yards. He also only had 14 carries.


I will concede that Reggie Bush had a good day Sunday. However, 22 return yards is nothing...my grandmother could get 22 return yards (assuming she could catch the ball, of course). The one-two punch of Deuce powering the ball and tiring out the defense with a phsycial game, while Bush further works the defense with his "where did he go" game is thus far proving to be an effective combination. But we're all sick of the over-hype...and the 5-10 minute media stories...and just about EVERYONE saying it was a bad decision to pass on him.

Honestly...could anyone realistically imagine Reggie Bush as a Denver Bronco? Because if you can't...then you can't imagine him as a Houston Texan either. I know that seeing Reggie Bush as a Bronco would make me wonder if Shanahan had gone senile.


But even though I will concede he's a good player, I will not concede he will win a Super Bowl. Even if he IS a once in a lifetime player...he went to the New Orleans Saints. And just like Barry Sanders when he went to the Detroit Lions, the New Orleans Saints have (for whatever reason) been doomed to ultimate failure for all eternity. Just like with the Cardinals being everyone's "sleeper pick" EVERY year...I think that the Saints will return to true form by midway through the season.

Bush may be a good player...but Michael Vick is a good player too. Fast defenses will usually keep Vick in check and unable to work his magic. I think the same will hold true for Bush, and that his big games will come from the slower defenses.

real
09-12-2006, 07:57 AM
Four defensive ends have been to more Super Bowls than two running backs. Shocking.

Gale Sayers played between '65-'71. Super Bowls were started in '67. He only appeared in 2 games in each of the '70 and '71 seasons. That gives him a whopping 3 years of having a chance of making it to a Super Bowl.

But Reggie's also been compared to Marshall Faulk. He's been to two...winning one of them.

If I ran down the list of 1st round RBs that have appeared in Super Bowls, how would that compare to the 1st round DEs?

Just off the top of my head, I think the number of RBs would come out on top.


wow...logical thinking

Mr. White
09-12-2006, 08:04 AM
wow...logical thinking

How is it logical to compare a Running Back to a Defensive Lineman?

Or is it just logical because somebody said something pro-Bush?

dtran04
09-12-2006, 08:18 AM
A month ago, Vince Young was ending worldwide poverty whenever he spoke. Now Reggie Bush is curing AIDS with every juke. CRAZY

real
09-12-2006, 10:10 AM
How is it logical to compare a Running Back to a Defensive Lineman?

Or is it just logical because somebody said something pro-Bush?

Maybe if you go back and read the context in which his response was written you'd be able to answer that question for yourself...:ok:

Huge
09-12-2006, 10:17 AM
I will concede that Reggie Bush had a good day Sunday. However, 22 return yards is nothing...my grandmother could get 22 return yards (assuming she could catch the ball, of course). The one-two punch of Deuce powering the ball and tiring out the defense with a phsycial game, while Bush further works the defense with his "where did he go" game is thus far proving to be an effective combination. But we're all sick of the over-hype...and the 5-10 minute media stories...and just about EVERYONE saying it was a bad decision to pass on him.
Agreed. I think those including his 22 return yards could be considered guilty of inflating his stats to boost the appearance of his performance.

But still, 61 yards rushing averages out to just under 1,000 for the season. And that's while splitting carries with McCallister.
Honestly...could anyone realistically imagine Reggie Bush as a Denver Bronco? Because if you can't...then you can't imagine him as a Houston Texan either. I know that seeing Reggie Bush as a Bronco would make me wonder if Shanahan had gone senile.
I can (imagine Bush as a Bronco). Remember the numbers Clinton Portis was putting up when he was in Denver?
How is it logical to compare a Running Back to a Defensive Lineman?

Or is it just logical because somebody said something pro-Bush?
I wasn't comparing a RB to a DE. At least not anymore than you were.

jerek
09-12-2006, 10:20 AM
No he did belittle it...All I hear are exscuse for why Mario played bad...Eagles had good team...good O-line....yada yada....Whenever Reggie does something...ah shucks he was playing the Browns....The Browns are an NFL team...putting something in context is saying his college stats don't carry over, or his pre-season meant nothing....He belittled his performance against an NFL team that counts....He has 150 all purpose on the season...Mario has 3 tackles....thats keepin it in context...

You're right, let's reserve his HOF spot right now. Mario's a bust; we should cut him and just eat the 26M in signing bonus. If he belittled it then you are overstating its importance. If one game is your basis for saying that he is a great player and is going to do great things, then hell, why not just cancel the season now?

Mr. White
09-12-2006, 10:22 AM
Reggie Bush wears a cup not to protect himself, but to protect the players on the other team.

real
09-12-2006, 10:26 AM
Agreed. I think those including his 22 return yards could be considered guilty of inflating his stats to boost the appearance of his performance.


He averaged 7.7 yards per return...not amazing but you can discount his versatility....

Huge
09-12-2006, 10:36 AM
He averaged 7.7 yards per return...not amazing but you can discount his versatility....
7.3 according to NFL.com. (http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PNTRET/2006/regular)

That's good enough to just make into the top 15.

His receiving stats/abilities are a better indication of his versatility.

real
09-12-2006, 10:43 AM
7.3 according to NFL.com. (http://www.nfl.com/stats/leaders/NFL/PNTRET/2006/regular)

That's good enough to just make into the top 15.

His receiving stats/abilities are a better indication of his versatility.

Yeah thats true, but you said that people are inflating his stats by adding his return numbers...Im just saying that you have to account for that because thats what he does...

GoneTexan
09-12-2006, 11:00 AM
So Wali Lundy is going to have over 150 yards against Cleveland? :pigfly:

Don't forget the Saints used Deuce McAllister effectively in conjunction with Bush. Deuce ran for over 90 yards himself.

Hey you over looked the word "FINAL" Stats... that would be the whole 5 Games total from above :shoot:

Anyway look at the hype on the First Pre-season game? Who did Reggie have that great run defense against (Titans).... big wow! I will even include Bush's Return stats with the overall total because he will not have the carries that Wali will have. IMO, I don't think Bush will survive the entire 16 games.

So before you go and say 150 yards and :pigfly: Let's just wait till week 17 and see where these Players are. :ok:

GO TEXANS!

Mr. White
09-12-2006, 11:02 AM
In 2005, Reggie Bush entered a Cannonball Contest at his neighborhood pool. The death toll is still rising.

:bowdown:

RiotCommander
09-12-2006, 11:07 AM
Bush is going to be considered the greatest until he plays a real team, and is forced to to North and South.

real
09-12-2006, 11:11 AM
:

Anyway look at the hype on the First Pre-season game? Who did Reggie have that great run defense against (Titans).... big wow! I will even include Bush's Return stats with the overall total because he will not have the carries that Wali will have. IMO, I don't think Bush will survive the entire 16 games.

So before you go and say 150 yards and :pigfly: Let's just wait till week 17 and see where these Players are. :ok:

GO TEXANS!

Why does it hurt so much to admit Reggie is good ?

Why do you discount what he has done ? even though he's playing NFL teams ?

When he was in college you were probably one of the people who said he's be crushed in the NFL...he hasn't been...You probably said he couldn't break tackles...He has....You probably thought his speed wouldn't be a factor....it is...Stop being a hater....

gg no re
09-12-2006, 12:29 PM
Why does it hurt so much to admit Reggie is good ?Because it hurts to admit Cleveland will be a contender this year?

I'm sorry if the Cleveland excuse is being overused, but you have to admit, there is a line between overuse and giving too much credit to a crappy team.

real
09-12-2006, 12:39 PM
You're right, let's reserve his HOF spot right now. Mario's a bust; we should cut him and just eat the 26M in signing bonus. If he belittled it then you are overstating its importance. If one game is your basis for saying that he is a great player and is going to do great things, then hell, why not just cancel the season now?

Are you serious ? What are YOU talking about...I have never once said Mario is a bust...And I'm not basing my opinion that Bush will be great off of one game...I don't know how I'm overstating the importance..I never said that Reggie is a beast because of his one game...you are being ridiculous...I think Reggie will be a beast because that's all he's ever been...It's fine if you don't like RB because of personal reasons, but he hasn't done anything but shine on the field...So I would say I have greater evidence he'll be succesful than you do that he'd fail...choose another argument because you loose this one....

real
09-12-2006, 12:46 PM
Because it hurts to admit Cleveland will be a contender this year?

I'm sorry if the Cleveland excuse is being overused, but you have to admit, there is a line between overuse and giving too much credit to a crappy team.

Honestly I don't know how bad Clevlands defense is...but that is besides the point...No matter what he does, people will always hate him....It can't be because of what he does on the field so it has to be because of something else...Im here to talk football, not why reggie gets on my nerves...First it was he won't be able to turn the corner in the NFL..check....He can't break tackles...check...He can't run up the middle...uh...check....It's ok to say Mario is better for us, and to be in love with Mario...It's even o.k to say you think Mario will be better than Reggie in the long run...there all just predictions...But to take away from, or belittle his performance wich was clearly pretty good, especially for his first NFL game...i don't care who he played....That just comes off as being a hater, with some kind of vindetta...get over it...

real
09-12-2006, 12:50 PM
And something I've noticed on this board...If you say something positive about Bush, people automatically assume you don't like Mario...

One player IMO, has absolutely nothing to do with the other in terms of performance and how they help there respective teams...

The hating needs to stop...

jerek
09-12-2006, 01:05 PM
Are you serious ? What are YOU talking about...I have never once said Mario is a bust...And I'm not basing my opinion that Bush will be great off of one game...I don't know how I'm overstating the importance..I never said that Reggie is a beast because of his one game...you are being ridiculous...I think Reggie will be a beast because that's all he's ever been...It's fine if you don't like RB because of personal reasons, but he hasn't done anything but shine on the field...So I would say I have greater evidence he'll be succesful than you do that he'd fail...choose another argument because you loose this one....

The Mario=bust arises out of my perception that you were and continue to acclaim Bush's NFL glory based on very limited NFL experience. He turned a corner in the NFL, check ... against who? He ran up the middle in the NFL, check ... against who? How consistently? More than once? Against a real defense? I didn't mean to imply that you personally hate Mario Williams; I was merely using hyperbole to demonstrate what I think are faulty evaluation methods on your part.

Why don't I like Reggie? I don't like Reggie Bush because I don't like 95% of his obnoxious fans. I don't like Reggie Bush because he has a 44-yard run against a Titans second-team D and it's replayed for weeks on end on ESPN. I don't like Reggie Bush because people continue to clamor that we made a mistake in passing on the greatest thing to strike humanity since sliced bread. I don't like Reggie Bush because I thought that he was overrated in college and continues to be overrated in the pros. I know the news reports on stories in which they perceive the most public interest -- and Reggie certainly has a lot of public interest -- but it's downright fallacious and an act of eternal leg-humping for so many people to be acclaiming the guy left and right for doing so little.

Reggie Bush hasn't done anything wrong to me. As much as his style of running isn't well suited for Kubiak's system, I sure wouldn't mind the guy being on my team -- other than the eternal circus of TO proportions that would surround our city as a result (and no, I'm not comparing Reggie to TO, other than for the media hurricane that seems to follow them both.)

I'm not remotely convinced that any of the questions that surrounded him entering into the league -- can he endure a heavy load, can he get to the outside against good defenses, can he run between the tackles consistently, etc. -- have been answered to this point. You seem sure and that is fine, but again I ask you, based on what?

I too am also not a fan of "total yardage" -- it's a bit of phantom statistic IMO, since just about any return guy can average 7 YPR on a series of punts. In any event, Reggie did post a nice game, but it was one good game against one lousy defense and I'm not ready to crown him "great" yet. If you'd like to, that's your prerogative, but you'll forgive me if I and others are tired of the Reggie rhetoric and would like to see a little more before we pass judgment, positive or negative.

Case in point: Vince Young, who's been looking pretty much awful in TN. Is he a sure bust? Probably not, but just several months ago, people wouldn't shut up about his glorious countenance. I still don't think Vince is going to ever be "it" in the NFL, and I would project Reggie to have the better career between the two of them, but I certainly wouldn't write off Vince (or Mario) after one game. Neither would I call Reggie "great" after one.

real
09-12-2006, 01:13 PM
I don't like Reggie Bush because I don't like 95% of his obnoxious fans.

Thats all I needed to know...

I am not basing my thinking that Reggie will be great from one game...

Do you think Mario is going to be good? What are you basing that from...

I know that I will never have a truly objective conversation with you about bush as evidence of your quoted message above....

My Point: Reggie has done more in college and the pro's than Mario to this point, FWIW....YET, it's fine and logical for people to expect Mario to become a beast, yet it's ludicrous and unfounded to think Reggie too will become one...Get...outta...town...What are you basing your assumptions off of..i shouldn't have to explain why i think RB will be good...His game film speaks for itself...College, and yes his one game as a pro...I knew you were a Bush hater, but atleast be reasonable....

Mr. White
09-12-2006, 01:16 PM
And something I've noticed on this board...If you say something positive about Bush, people automatically assume you don't like Mario...

Not really. It's more like if you say something bad about Mario, then they automatically assume you don't like Mario.

Like saying that he sucks on a thread called "Mario is a Bust." Then if you turn up on a Bush thread calling people haters for not liking him, that factors into it as well.

real
09-12-2006, 01:23 PM
Neither would I call Reggie "great" after one.

There you go again...I don't know about you but I am intelligent enough to have watched a player over a certain period of time and come to a conclusion...Yes it's true he has only played one NFL game, but I was of the opinon that he would be "great" before he even came into the leauge...Is this not allowed? Am I the only one who watched Reggie in college and thought he'd be a great pro ? You are taking what you want to take and twisting it to make it sound logical..."Neither would I call Reggie "great" after one game" is evidence...Guess what Jerek...If all I was basing my opinion from was that one game you'd be right...

real
09-12-2006, 01:25 PM
Not really. It's more like if you say something bad about Mario, then they automatically assume you don't like Mario.

Like saying that he sucks on a thread called "Mario is a Bust." Then if you turn up on a Bush thread calling people haters for not liking him, that factors into it as well.

I never said he sucks...I said he didn't have a good game...get your facts straight...And I didn't create the thread...I have never once said Mario is a bust...

Mr. White
09-12-2006, 01:37 PM
I never said he sucks...I said he didn't have a good game...get your facts straight...And I didn't create the thread...I have never once said Mario is a bust...

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=436975&postcount=243

No. We agree Mario Sucked on Sunday....I just think that there is reason for concern, and you think it meant nothing....

You even said that I think he sucks. News to me.

One could logically assume that by posting something like this in a thread called "Mario is a Bust" means that you agree that he is one. Forgive me if I'm mistaken.

jerek
09-12-2006, 01:38 PM
There you go again...I don't know about you but I am intelligent enough to have watched a player over a certain period of time and come to a conclusion...Yes it's true he has only played one NFL game, but I was of the opinon that he would be "great" before he even came into the leauge...Is this not allowed? Am I the only one who watched Reggie in college and thought he'd be a great pro ? You are taking what you want to take and twisting it to make it sound logical..."Neither would I call Reggie "great" after one game" is evidence...Guess what Jerek...If all I was basing my opinion from was that one game you'd be right...

Let me try to explain this to you. Very slowly. Very clearly.

We've already had the Reggie discussion one million times on this board. I've previously stated specifically why I don't think Reggie is going to be the next Barry Sanders/Gayle Sayers/Insert Proven Superstar. I was assuming you'd read or would remember that argument, but since you don't, here we go.

Reggie did many great things in college. I am not convinced he will be able to do those same things in the NFL.

In the NFL, Reggie's speed is certainly good, but the difference between Reggie and NFL defenses (good ones, any way) is much smaller than it was at USC. NFL defenses are faster, will better account for him, will take better pursuit angles, and are better tacklers. It's still totally unknown if he can bear a prominent workload in the NFL.

Reggie dances around too much. Again, fine at USC, but it's going to hurt him in the NFL. IMO he needs to cut more decisively. For his flashy preseason run, he had a number of runs for a loss or minimal gain, many of them because he was dancing too much. He hasn't shown me he can run between the tackles at the NFL level or against a defense that will take away the outside.

Compare this to Mario Williams. Clearly an unpolished physical talent, he doesn't have Reggie's college resume. However, Reggie isn't going to get much better. He'll get a little smarter, learn to make better reads. But he doesn't have much more distance he can go up, IMO; he has already, to certain extent, peaked. Not that there's anything wrong with putting up 140 yards per game, if that's what he continues to do, but I don't think he will. Mario, OTOH, can improve worlds. He is a decent DE right now but his physical gifts are absolutely unmatched at the position. He is a hard worker, is smart enough, and I think he will get much, much better, before the year is out, and throughout his career.

I don't have anything against Reggie personally. If he goes on to put up 2,000 yards this season, then I'll be first in line to say I was wrong for underevaluating the guy. I have no problem whatsoever with admitting I'm wrong about him or any NFL player. In the meanwhile forgive me if it annoys me to see and read about his underwhelming performances against horrible defenses. Reggie was owned in two preseason games against good defenses. We'll get to see how he does against ATL this week and believe it or no, I do look forward to watching his progress.

I'm done with this discussion. I've only participated to this point because I thought you and others might have misunderstood me. I don't think I can put it any more clearly than I just have, so if you continue to misunderstand me (or disagree with me) or want to mischaracterize or spin my words, then so be it.

real
09-12-2006, 01:39 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=436975&postcount=243



You even said that I think he sucks. News to me.

One could logically assume that by posting something like this in a thread called "Mario is a Bust" means that you agree that he is one. Forgive me if I'm mistaken.

You...are....silly...All you did was prove my point...I said "he sucked on Sunday"....What don't you understand ?

Mr. White
09-12-2006, 01:42 PM
You...are....silly...All you did was prove my point...I said "he sucked on Sunday"....What don't you understand ?

There's a difference between "He didn't play up to my expectations" and "he sucked."

By saying "he sucked," that might leave someone to believe that you think he sucks. Call me crazy.....

real
09-12-2006, 01:45 PM
Let me try to explain this to you. Very slowly. Very clearly.

We've already had the Reggie discussion one million times on this board. I've previously stated specifically why I don't think Reggie is going to be the next Barry Sanders/Gayle Sayers/Insert Proven Superstar. I was assuming you'd read or would remember that argument, but since you don't, here we go.

Reggie did many great things in college. I am not convinced he will be able to do those same things in the NFL.

In the NFL, Reggie's speed is certainly good, but the difference between Reggie and NFL defenses (good ones, any way) is much smaller than it was at USC. NFL defenses are faster, will better account for him, will take better pursuit angles, and are better tacklers. It's still totally unknown if he can bear a prominent workload in the NFL.

Reggie dances around too much. Again, fine at USC, but it's going to hurt him in the NFL. IMO he needs to cut more decisively. For his flashy preseason run, he had a number of runs for a loss or minimal gain, many of them because he was dancing too much. He hasn't shown me he can run between the tackles at the NFL level or against a defense that will take away the outside.

Compare this to Mario Williams. Clearly an unpolished physical talent, he doesn't have Reggie's college resume. However, Reggie isn't going to get much better. He'll get a little smarter, learn to make better reads. But he doesn't have much more distance he can go up, IMO; he has already, to certain extent, peaked. Not that there's anything wrong with putting up 140 yards per game, if that's what he continues to do, but I don't think he will. Mario, OTOH, can improve worlds. He is a decent DE right now but his physical gifts are absolutely unmatched at the position. He is a hard worker, is smart enough, and I think he will get much, much better, before the year is out, and throughout his career.

I don't have anything against Reggie personally. If he goes on to put up 2,000 yards this season, then I'll be first in line to say I was wrong for underevaluating the guy. I have no problem whatsoever with admitting I'm wrong about him or any NFL player. In the meanwhile forgive me if it annoys me to see and read about his underwhelming performances against horrible defenses. Reggie was owned in two preseason games against good defenses. We'll get to see how he does against ATL this week and believe it or no, I do look forward to watching his progress.

I'm done with this discussion. I've only participated to this point because I thought you and others might have misunderstood me. I don't think I can put it any more clearly than I just have, so if you continue to misunderstand me (or disagree with me) or want to mischaracterize or spin my words, then so be it.

Jerek that's fine..and I can understand you point of view...No I didn't recall you previously posting about Reggie...BUT I never questioned your football knowledge and evaluation of players...You first quoted me, making silly assumuptions ..."how can you say Reggie will be great after one game"...that is where it started...You are entitled to your opinion about Reggie just as I am of mine...

jerek
09-12-2006, 01:48 PM
Jerek that's fine..and I can understand you point of view...No I didn't recall you previously posting about Reggie...BUT I never questioned your football knowledge and evaluation of players...You first quoted me, making silly assumuptions ..."how can you say Reggie will be great after one game"...that is where it started...You are entitled to your opinion about Reggie just as I am of mine...

I may have misread or misinterpreted or exaggerated/straw-manned you. I do it from time to time. It's a product of laziness moreso than malice, so no hard feelings if that was the case.

real
09-12-2006, 01:50 PM
There's a difference between "He didn't play up to my expectations" and "he sucked."

By saying "he sucked," that might leave someone to believe that you think he sucks. Call me crazy.....

Even if I said he sucked on Sunday ? Did you bother to read any post where I defend Mario when people say he's a bust? No...You just took what you wanted to hear and ran with it...I am a big fan of Mario and Bush... One had a good game and the other didn't...This happens to be a Texans board so I commented on the negative things I saw that Mario did....I don't know how to put it any more plainly than that...

real
09-12-2006, 01:50 PM
I may have misread or misinterpreted or exaggerated/straw-manned you. I do it from time to time. It's a product of laziness moreso than malice, so no hard feelings if that was the case.

It's all good...It's just words on a screen....I like to argue so actually I should thank you...

Mr. White
09-12-2006, 01:54 PM
Even if I said he sucked on Sunday ? Did you bother to read any post where I defend Mario when people say he's a bust? No...You just took what you wanted to hear and ran with it...I am a big fan of Mario and Bush... One had a good game and the other didn't...This happens to be a Texans board so I commented on the negative things I saw that Mario did....I don't know how to put it any more plainly than that...

I'll admit that you're saying the opposite of what you were yesterday, so you defend him also.

Have fun with the last word. I'm done here also.

donato
09-12-2006, 06:05 PM
Reggie! Reggie!! REGGIE!!!:woot:

colts18288
09-14-2006, 04:45 PM
If I were a Saints fan and Reggie Bush got the nod ahead of Deuce...I would be absolutely pissed.

Bush is a flashy player who's NOT a #1 running back. He's great at using open space to make guys miss as well as sliding out and playing WR. He's NOT good at powering the football between the guards to get that tough 1st down. Look at the championship game against UT...they went to White instead.

That's not to say he's not good or doesn't have talent. But Reggie Bush isn't perfect, he has flaws in his game that just won't allow him to do certain things (i.e. carry the ball 25+ times). Anyone who thinks he can do that is being entirely unrealistic. How successful is Vick when he's stuck inside the pocket for an entire game? His abilities simply do not complement a pure passing game.


Texans fans...we picked Mario Williams. Get over it. I've said this before and I'll say it again...if you think we needed Bush then you didn't want Kubiak. Our running system HATES flashy backs like Bush. And while for a year or two we might be pining for a flashy back, once our offensive line begins to click, we'll see just how much cap room we'll save each year in being able to use a highly effective RBBC system. With the money we could save from not taking Bush, we might just be able to find some killer DB's in the future. Have hope! :fans:

Barry Sanders.........he ran behind a line a bad as the line you have there, AND he made them look good. Reggie is exactly the kind of back Texans needed. Able to escape quickly due to the line protection crumbling. There are fans on here that are realistic, then there are fans that think Reggie was not worth the pick. You guys that are upset with managments pick have every right to be, they got it dead wrong and the NFL world knows it.

Mario does have the pontential to be a good player, but Reggie was a good player coming in. I truly thank the good lord he is not in your line up, the thought of him carving up our D scared the living crapola out of me. I'm not saying Mario was a bad pick, but I'm saying Reggie was a better pick.

Wolf
09-14-2006, 06:15 PM
north and south baby.. that is kubiaks style

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh4albC37Rg&search=%26quot%3Badrian%20peterson%26quot%3B

forget bush


everything I read says Oklahoma was running a Zone Blocking Scheme :hmmm:

I am still trying to find more info on that..

Dime
09-14-2006, 08:30 PM
Barry Sanders.........he ran behind a line a bad as the line you have there, AND he made them look good. Reggie is exactly the kind of back Texans needed. Able to escape quickly due to the line protection crumbling. There are fans on here that are realistic, then there are fans that think Reggie was not worth the pick. You guys that are upset with managments pick have every right to be, they got it dead wrong and the NFL world knows it.

Mario does have the pontential to be a good player, but Reggie was a good player coming in. I truly thank the good lord he is not in your line up, the thought of him carving up our D scared the living crapola out of me. I'm not saying Mario was a bad pick, but I'm saying Reggie was a better pick.

Wrong about something there.. Barry Sanders ran behind a decent line. Detroit only had 3 plays in its playbook. Barry to the right, Barry to the left and Barry in the middle. There is a reason he quit very early into his career. Barry was a every down back.. at this time, Reggie is not. You folks think you know what we should pick. Tell you what? What makes you think you know? Surely it can be better the a 20 vet Offensive coach for the Broncos. You think they got it wrong.. go teach a team to the SuperBowl. Otherwise.. Hush and let give him a freakin chance to see what he saw. Someone who have been doing this a hell of alot longer then anyone here talking.

BigBull17
09-15-2006, 02:38 PM
I'm just wondering when this board is going to finally admit that Bush is going to be a great player. Closing your eyes to reality makes you guys appear childish.

Once he does it in more than one game, and does it against an average defense, not Clevlands rebuilding experement. If he shows flashes this year against his division, it will be a start. But 1 game with Clevland isnt gonna put you in Canton.

HOU-TEX
09-15-2006, 02:54 PM
This thread reminds me of

174

"These are the days of our lives"

we need Reggie Bush
09-15-2006, 03:15 PM
what makes Mario's 2 tackles worth 54million. anyone who saw that game had to see Mario get stuffed by ONE guy all day long that sounds like a #1 pick to me.

GuerillaBlack
09-15-2006, 08:32 PM
north and south baby.. that is kubiaks style

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh4albC37Rg&search=%26quot%3Badrian%20peterson%26quot%3B

forget bush


everything I read says Oklahoma was running a Zone Blocking Scheme :hmmm:

I am still trying to find more info on that..

To bad we don't have a chance on getting Adrian Peterson.