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infantrycak
09-09-2006, 09:54 AM
OK here is the sack tracking thread for the regular season. Hopefully it gets very little use. To maybe (like this is going to happen) avoid 20 page fights over some responsibility, let's try to go with a primarily responsible, most (51%) at fault standard.

HJam72
09-09-2006, 10:37 AM
It won't be me. Promise. :ok:

Ibar_Harry
09-09-2006, 12:18 PM
OK here is the sack tracking thread for the regular season. Hopefully it gets very little use. To maybe (like this is going to happen) avoid 20 page fights over some responsibility, let's try to go with a primarily responsible, most (51%) at fault standard.


Good luck on your well intended thought............

Ibar_Harry
09-09-2006, 12:24 PM
OK here is the sack tracking thread for the regular season. Hopefully it gets very little use. To maybe (like this is going to happen) avoid 20 page fights over some responsibility, let's try to go with a primarily responsible, most (51%) at fault standard.

While I agree with your thought and standards I think in reality the only people qualified to really say who was responsible is the coaching staff and the coach calling the play. I say that, because so often there are many factors in a SACK. While it might appear that someone obviously missed an assignment it still could be a function of what someone else was suppose to do and didn't do and that might not be so obvious. I simply would hope we didn't have them and this subject could go away as a major factor in the ball games this year. Actually, there are times when a Sack, as bad as it is, may be better than the other available options.

HJam72
09-09-2006, 12:31 PM
I thought it was always the QBs fault. :confused:

infantrycak
09-09-2006, 12:33 PM
While I agree with your thought and standards I think in reality the only people qualified to really say who was responsible is the coaching staff and the coach calling the play.

Sure, but sacks are going to be discussed on the MB so there might as well be one spot to talk about it and keep an ongoing MB accounting.

Ibar_Harry
09-09-2006, 12:40 PM
Sure, but sacks are going to be discussed on the MB so there might as well be one spot to talk about it and keep an ongoing MB accounting.

I hope your standards are met.....

Vinny
09-09-2006, 01:05 PM
I think most of the sacks are obvious. Probably around 20-30% or so are due to factors we are not aware of watching on tv or from our seats at the stadium. This is a good way to at least have intelligent debate about this subject instead of always just assuming the line is at fault 100% of the time like some folks do.

TexansLucky13
09-09-2006, 01:27 PM
I think most of the sacks are obvious. Probably around 20-30% or so are due to factors we are not aware of watching on tv or from our seats at the stadium. This is a good way to at least have intelligent debate about this subject instead of always just assuming the line is at fault 100% of the time like some folks do.

According to McClain, 20 of 208 were Carrs fault. That calculates close to 9.6%.

But yea, I think it is an awesome idea to keep our eyes on the situation this season. Personally I think we will see some progress in that that 9.6% will be far less this season.

infantrycak
09-09-2006, 01:30 PM
According to McClain, 20 of 208 were Carrs fault. That calculates close to 9.6%.

McClain did not specify what time period was reviewed for the 20 sacks but the implication was 20 of last year's 68 sacks. Around 9-11 of those were running out of bounds from 0-2 yds behind the line of scrimmage, i.e. dumb mistakes.

Vinny
09-09-2006, 04:32 PM
According to McClain, 20 of 208 were Carrs fault. That calculates close to 9.6%.

But yea, I think it is an awesome idea to keep our eyes on the situation this season. Personally I think we will see some progress in that that 9.6% will be far less this season.Kubiak himself said that Carr sacked himself over 20x last year. Your spin is weak young Luke, but consistent.

ThaShark316
09-10-2006, 01:54 PM
2 sacks so far...both on the line/blocking.

Sarg01
09-10-2006, 03:57 PM
I saw:

1 on Morency (dove into the ground and sacker leaped over him)
1 on Putzier (just couldn't handle Kearse)
1 on Carr (tripped, got back up and sacked as soon as he was up)

1 other where the blitzes just came through, not sure whose fault that was.

utahmark
09-10-2006, 04:05 PM
i think 2 today were on carr. once he tripped and once he didnt see an obvious blitz coming.

mexican_texan
09-10-2006, 04:07 PM
I'm sure I got them all in the game thread.

Texans Pride
09-10-2006, 04:08 PM
i think 2 today were on carr. once he tripped and once he didnt see an obvious blitz coming.


I agree with you on the trip, however, the blitz came from his blind side and he had no time to do anything. . . .they were all over him before he even realized.

Goldeagle
09-10-2006, 04:25 PM
Who is the Hot chick with ya Texans pride :)

run-david-run
09-10-2006, 04:28 PM
The obvious one where he triped is on carr. one was morency, one putzier and a couple came from the weakside. on these two sacks the argument that "he should have thrown the ball away" dosnt work because he couldnt see them coming and we have no idea where the ball was supposed to go on the given play. 1 out of 5 on carr, probably two on the O-line, although im not sure.

utahmark
09-10-2006, 04:34 PM
I agree with you on the trip, however, the blitz came from his blind side and he had no time to do anything. . . .they were all over him before he even realized.

yes they were all over him quick. but they showed blitz there were to many men to block on that side of the line he has to see that before the ball is snaped.

infantrycak
09-10-2006, 06:54 PM
Here is what I saw:

Philly

2nd qtr 8:40--Morency tries to dive block DE and submarines it letting him virtually unopposed to QB. Without game film can't tell if Carr could have dumped but certainly a failure by the RB.

2nd qtr 2:00--totally unblocked safety blitz from the blind side. Could be Carr's failure to read the play or TE failing to chip--probably Carr failing to read and audible but quesswork.

3rd qtr 8:22--Putzier beat horribly by Kearse. All on Putz.

3rd qtr 4:32--Carr trips. From slo mo it looks like Flannigan or McKinney steps on Carr's forward foot. IMO no one's fault--crap happens.

Hulk75
09-10-2006, 09:01 PM
"The sacks he's taking weren't his fault," center Mike Flanagan said of Carr. "He was making the right calls, he made the right throws, but we as an offense -- particularly the offensive line -- weren't good enough to give him a chance to let us win."
:cool: ..............

michaelm
09-11-2006, 12:32 AM
Hopefully, the sacks don't continue at this rate.
If they do, the IT department for the MB will need to invest in a server farn just to store this thread.

powerfuldragon
09-11-2006, 11:30 AM
Flanagan is a class act. Keeper.

TexanFanInCC
09-11-2006, 01:33 PM
I saw:

1 on Morency (dove into the ground and sacker leaped over him)
1 on Putzier (just couldn't handle Kearse)
1 on Carr (tripped, got back up and sacked as soon as he was up)

1 other where the blitzes just came through, not sure whose fault that was.

thats pretty much what i caught. morency made a lack-luster attempt to pick up his assignment, and putzier should have never been matched up with kearse in the first place.

TexanFanInCC
09-11-2006, 01:33 PM
Hopefully, the sacks don't continue at this rate.
If they do, the IT department for the MB will need to invest in a server farn just to store this thread.

it may not get much better with the trip into indy next week :hides:

kcwilson
09-11-2006, 02:16 PM
I will have to re-watch the game, but I think that sack #5 was late in the game when Carr scrambled up the right sideline and ducked out of bounds for an apparent first down, but they ruled that he had stepped out... maybe just behind the line of scrimmage, leaving a 4th and 4. I think it was the 2nd to last offensive play.

Can anyone confirm that?

michaelm
09-11-2006, 02:25 PM
I will have to re-watch the game, but I think that sack #5 was late in the game when Carr scrambled up the right sideline and ducked out of bounds for an apparent first down, but they ruled that he had stepped out... maybe just behind the line of scrimmage, leaving a 4th and 4. I think it was the 2nd to last offensive play.

Can anyone confirm that?

If it's the play that I'm thinking of, he was well past the line of scrimmage. He needed something like 9 yards for the first, but stepped on the sideline short of the marker. I could be off on the 9 yard part, but he got more than 5 on that play I'm pretty sure.

thunderkyss
09-11-2006, 02:33 PM
If he gains any yardage, it's not a sack, it's a rushing attempt.

rmartin65
09-11-2006, 03:13 PM
Flannagan sounds like a good guy. I pretty much agree with what has been said.

SESupergenius
09-11-2006, 03:20 PM
I saw 1 sack that was clearly on David Carr and that was one where he just was tripped. The others are all on the offensive line. When they show blitz, then our offensive line and protection has to know this. When Carr doesn't have time to get the ball off then that automatically is applied to the line.

Second Honeymoon
09-11-2006, 04:35 PM
Carr did a good job getting rid of the ball on all but 2 plays in the game. Only two sacks could be attributed to him. I thought he looked more calm and not in as much of a rush to drop back and deliver football. This will allow him to keep vision downfield a lot more effectively. I am one of the biggest Carr critics and have been since they drafted him but I thought he showed improvement in every aspect of his game except his consistency still leaves something to be desired....oh and his low release point was responsible for a very important pass to be blocked there near the end of the game in a crucial situation... (something a lot of people dont point out is that Carr has inherent problems with his javelin like delivery of the football)

The guy got more than a little goodwill from me with that sweet pass to Andre. Too bad we melted down and didnt punch it in on that drive. I give Carr a C for his performance against a pretty feisty Eagles defense. Not great but not horrible either....Carr was not the reason we lost. It was the poor defense and the lack of running game that cost us another opening day win. Oh and Mario looked soft and played without heart and passion in his first game to prove the doubters wrong...hope it improves.

doug from the woodlands

thunderkyss
09-12-2006, 11:49 AM
I just re-watched the first half last night. I place all three first half sacks on David Carr.

I believe David had a great game. I thought he played a lot closer to where I'd like to see him. I say he played a lot better since our last preseason game. But.

2nd Qtr
8:41 1 & 10, Morency throws the bad cut block on #75. Carr noticed #75 @ 8:38, almost 3 seconds after the ball was snapped. You can tell he notices #75 by the extra pep in his step. He tries to step up into the pocket.... directly into #75. He spends about 2 seconds before #75 takes him down.

He should have thrown the ball away. he had plenty of time, and he recognized an unblock rusher. He could've ran to the left, and bought a little time, but no one would have a problem with him throwing it away.

7:12 3 & 6 from the 44. The Eagles overload the Left side of the line. In all honesty, this one would not be called on Carr, except they got exactly what they wanted from the defense. one on one coverage on 2 WRs.

David takes a 5 step drop & loads up like he wants to throw the ball, but he pulls it back down. ON TV, you can't tell. But at the game, I never saw a play where our WRs were beat on one on one coverage. I can't imagine why he pulled the ball back down.

Now, to David's credit, the left side of the line looks like they forgot the snap count, and were very late off the ball, then Pitts just lets a DT through the line. Doesn't even try to stop him.

after the 2 minute warning. 2nd & Goal from the seven. Aj is wide left with a corner on him. they are in man coverage. The play looks like it is designed to go right, to pull the safeties right & away from AJ. Aj gets into the endzone, has a corner to his back, should've been an easy pass & catch to AJ in the endzone.

David should have seen the overloading of the left side of the line. He should've known his recievers were designed to go right. His backs were designed to go right. He should have known they were in man coverage, and the safety was going to go right. As soon as he sees the safety roll right, he shouldn't even have to think about it. He should just throw the ball to AJ in the endzone. Instead, he waits for a TE to break off his route. He had plenty of time to hit AJ in the endzone before he was sacked.

again, David played very well, shows much improvement, but he made some simple mistakes that he shouldn't have.

I love David, I don't want to see Sage at all this year. Just pointing a few things out.

TEXANS84
09-12-2006, 12:28 PM
Only person on the offensvie line that has been credited with a sack allowed is Charles Spencer with 1.00:

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/playerstats.asp?id=7814&Submit=Go

Vinny
09-12-2006, 01:04 PM
I have Carr with 2 of the sacks. When Carr counts 3 rushers in the box and 2 blockers to handle them if they all come he needs to be more aware.....but that story just continues to unfold it seems.

thunderkyss
09-13-2006, 02:27 PM
I just re-watched the first half last night. I place all three first half sacks on David Carr.

I believe David had a great game. I thought he played a lot closer to where I'd like to see him. I say he played a lot better since our last preseason game. But.

2nd Qtr
8:41 1 & 10, Morency throws the bad cut block on #75. Carr noticed #75 @ 8:38, almost 3 seconds after the ball was snapped. You can tell he notices #75 by the extra pep in his step. He tries to step up into the pocket.... directly into #75. He spends about 2 seconds before #75 takes him down.

He should have thrown the ball away. he had plenty of time, and he recognized an unblock rusher. He could've ran to the left, and bought a little time, but no one would have a problem with him throwing it away.

7:12 3 & 6 from the 44. The Eagles overload the Left side of the line. In all honesty, this one would not be called on Carr, except they got exactly what they wanted from the defense. one on one coverage on 2 WRs.

David takes a 5 step drop & loads up like he wants to throw the ball, but he pulls it back down. ON TV, you can't tell. But at the game, I never saw a play where our WRs were beat on one on one coverage. I can't imagine why he pulled the ball back down.

Now, to David's credit, the left side of the line looks like they forgot the snap count, and were very late off the ball, then Pitts just lets a DT through the line. Doesn't even try to stop him.

after the 2 minute warning. 2nd & Goal from the seven. Aj is wide left with a corner on him. they are in man coverage. The play looks like it is designed to go right, to pull the safeties right & away from AJ. Aj gets into the endzone, has a corner to his back, should've been an easy pass & catch to AJ in the endzone.

David should have seen the overloading of the left side of the line. He should've known his recievers were designed to go right. His backs were designed to go right. He should have known they were in man coverage, and the safety was going to go right. As soon as he sees the safety roll right, he shouldn't even have to think about it. He should just throw the ball to AJ in the endzone. Instead, he waits for a TE to break off his route. He had plenty of time to hit AJ in the endzone before he was sacked.

again, David played very well, shows much improvement, but he made some simple mistakes that he shouldn't have.

I love David, I don't want to see Sage at all this year. Just pointing a few things out.

I re-watched the second half last night.

The sack @ 8:22 I blame on Putzier........ Kearse just beats him to the outside, and he has no time to recover.

The sack @ 3:13 in the third , I blame pure-ole-bad luck.... maybe Flanagan, since it looks like Flannagan is the guy who stepped on him.

So I've got three against Carr, 1 freak accident, so that's 4 that shouldn't count.

Our OL only gave up 1 sack.

not bad.

Hey.......... if we are going to blame one on Carr for holding the ball too long, how long is too long??

infantrycak
09-13-2006, 02:47 PM
The sack @ 8:22 I blame on Wiegart........ Kearse just beats him to the outside, and he has no time to recover.

That's Putzier #88 who gets beat.

thunderkyss
09-13-2006, 03:24 PM
That's Putzier #88 who gets beat.

thanks.......... I've corrected it.

real
09-13-2006, 03:26 PM
So what is the count looking like ?

infantrycak
09-13-2006, 03:26 PM
2nd Qtr
8:41 1 & 10, Morency throws the bad cut block on #75. Carr noticed #75 @ 8:38, almost 3 seconds after the ball was snapped. You can tell he notices #75 by the extra pep in his step. He tries to step up into the pocket.... directly into #75. He spends about 2 seconds before #75 takes him down.

Don't know where you are getting your times from. 8:41 the ball is snapped, 8:40 Carr completes his drop on a play action and 8:38 Carr is in the grasp. Carr also did not step directly into the rusher who was coming off the edge--he stepped straight forward.

7:12 3 & 6 from the 44. The Eagles overload the Left side of the line. In all honesty, this one would not be called on Carr, except they got exactly what they wanted from the defense. one on one coverage on 2 WRs.

The Texans had 4 guys to block 4 guys and failed. Putzier took on a safety. Daniels took on a LB who comes between the DT and DE which leaves the DE free to come around Daniels outside shoulder unobstructed. Pitts doesn't engage anyone and Spencer makes a very late and half hearted attempt to keep the DT from shooting the gap between them. At 7:11 both the DE and DT are already past the pass protection before Carr has finished his drop.

after the 2 minute warning. 2nd & Goal from the seven. Aj is wide left with a corner on him. they are in man coverage. The play looks like it is designed to go right, to pull the safeties right & away from AJ. Aj gets into the endzone, has a corner to his back, should've been an easy pass & catch to AJ in the endzone.

David should have seen the overloading of the left side of the line. He should've known his recievers were designed to go right. His backs were designed to go right. He should have known they were in man coverage, and the safety was going to go right. As soon as he sees the safety roll right, he shouldn't even have to think about it. He should just throw the ball to AJ in the endzone. Instead, he waits for a TE to break off his route. He had plenty of time to hit AJ in the endzone before he was sacked.

Plenty of time? Man that standard is getting shorter and shorter. 2:00 snap--TE releases without touching the blitzer. 2nd guy is DE who Spencer gives a hand blow to and then releases to the inside to pick up guy behind him. Carr is hit with 1:59 still on the game clock.

infantrycak
09-13-2006, 03:33 PM
So what is the count looking like ?

Guess it depends on who you talk to. Using a primary breakdown standard I'd grade it as:

Philly

#1--2nd qtr 8:41--Morency
#2--2nd qtr 7:12--50% Daniels/50% Spencer
#3--2nd qtr 2:00--Spencer and maybe Daniels. Don't know if Daniels was supposed to release without even chipping someone. Find it hard to believe the coaches would want Spencer to allow the DE in that way to pick up a guy behind him especially releasing to the inside.
#4--3rd qtr 8:22--Putzier
#5--3rd qtr 4:32--crap happens

There are spots where Carr might have been able to dump the ball away but I don't see how these could be primarily his failure.

real
09-13-2006, 03:41 PM
Guess it depends on who you talk to. Using a primary breakdown standard I'd grade it as:

Philly

#1--2nd qtr 8:41--Morency
#2--2nd qtr 7:12--50% Daniels/50% Spencer
#3--2nd qtr 2:00--Spencer and maybe Daniels. Don't know if Daniels was supposed to release without even chipping someone. Find it hard to believe the coaches would want Spencer to allow the DE in that way to pick up a guy behind him especially releasing to the inside.
#4--3rd qtr 8:22--Putzier
#5--3rd qtr 4:32--crap happens

There are spots where Carr might have been able to dump the ball away but I don't see how these could be primarily his failure.

Thanks...Im not sure what the official stat line is on Spencer but D'Brick gave up 2 sacks on opening day....just a lil FYI...

infantrycak
09-13-2006, 03:50 PM
Thanks...Im not sure what the official stat line is on Spencer but D'Brick gave up 2 sacks on opening day....just a lil FYI...

Spencer got credited with 1 by Stats, Inc., Pitts none. My guess would be they gave Daniels and Spencer a half each on two of the sacks.

Vinny
09-13-2006, 03:55 PM
Morency did miss is block RIGHT in front of Carr. Unreal he still didn't get the ball off. He still had time to get that ball out of his hands if you watch the tape.

infantrycak
09-13-2006, 04:05 PM
Morency did miss is block RIGHT in front of Carr. Unreal he still didn't get the ball off. He still had time to get that ball out of his hands if you watch the tape.

He did have time but it is tough to tell if he had a place to send it. He is still in the tackle box so he had to get it near someone. Morency was on the ground. Cook looked like he was directly behind the DE--still might have been able to get it close enough to not draw an intentional grounding call. AJ was dragging left to right about 4 yds deep approaching a LB--probably could have thrown it behind him and not drawn a flag or put it up for an INT. Couldn't see Moulds as he had gone deep. I would think there probably was some opportunity to get rid of it.

thunderkyss
09-13-2006, 05:43 PM
2nd Qtr
8:41 1 & 10, Morency throws the bad cut block on #75. Carr noticed #75 @ 8:38, almost 3 seconds after the ball was snapped. You can tell he notices #75 by the extra pep in his step. He tries to step up into the pocket.... directly into #75. He spends about 2 seconds before #75 takes him down.




Don't know where you are getting your times from. 8:41 the ball is snapped, 8:40 Carr completes his drop on a play action and 8:38 Carr is in the grasp. Carr also did not step directly into the rusher who was coming off the edge--he stepped straight forward.

I'm just watching the clock. The ball moves, and it's still 8:41.. He takes a complete step before it goes to 8:40....
I do believe he saw the oncoming attacker at 8:39.... it's hard to really say, so I understand if you don't take my word... But David has been throwing the ball between 2 & 2.5 seconds up to this point...
The clock goes to 8:38, as David steps up, withingarm reach of the defender... maybe he was gambling a bit, I don't know. As the defender grabs him, the clock goes from 8:38 to 8:37...

True enough, Vernand missed his block, I won't deny that. But David had been throwing the ball in less time than it took for him to notice the attacker. He completed his 5 step drop, plus a bounce. His step up, wasn't a step up to deliver the ball, it was a step up to try to escape.... which is why I question his forward motion.

In the very next drive, we see McNabb handle a similar situation, where Earl comes in untouched. McNabb isn't even finished with his 5 step drop when he sees Earl..... he continues to step backwards, and has neither feet on the ground, as he throws the ball over LJ Smith's head. LJ dives, and makes an incredible catch. McNabbs protection broke down, who was at fault for the sack??


The Texans had 4 guys to block 4 guys and failed. Putzier took on a safety. Daniels took on a LB who comes between the DT and DE which leaves the DE free to come around Daniels outside shoulder unobstructed. Pitts doesn't engage anyone and Spencer makes a very late and half hearted attempt to keep the DT from shooting the gap between them. At 7:11 both the DE and DT are already past the pass protection before Carr has finished his drop.

I agree with you again, I said I wouldn't normally attribute this sack to Carr, except, he got what we wanted one on one coverage on AJ. Everybody else at Reliant knew this was a blitz. He takes five steps, sets up, loads up to throw it deep........... then pulls it back down. I think he should have thrown that ball. I'd bet AJ was open....... he was all night.


Plenty of time? Man that standard is getting shorter and shorter. 2:00 snap--TE releases without touching the blitzer. 2nd guy is DE who Spencer gives a hand blow to and then releases to the inside to pick up guy behind him. Carr is hit with 1:59 still on the game clock.
Ok, first, it was a play action pass. in that time, Carr had time to go back 4 or five steps, fake the hand off, then turn and look for his tightend(or maybe he's looking for Lundy).... it doesn't sound like a lot of time, I understand that.
But again, He knows it's man coverage, he knows the safety over him is going to follow Cook. If he knows what this play is supposed to do, he should know that he should have AJ on a quick slant to the endzone, which he does run.

I can understand not blaming Carr if you don't want to. Spencer had to block Darren Howard, Lewis, and a third guy that he did try to pick up. We can blame him. But, Carr could've been the hero, and got us six by hitting AJ who was going to be away from where all the coverage was going to be, instead of waiting for someone running a pattern into an area where all the coverage is going to be.

I bet Peyton would've hit AJ. I bet McNabb would've hit AJ.

Primary responsibility.... sure, Spencer.

Missed opportunity..... Carr.

dat_boy_yec
09-16-2006, 11:26 PM
I'm just watching the clock. The ball moves, and it's still 8:41.. He takes a complete step before it goes to 8:40....
I do believe he saw the oncoming attacker at 8:39.... it's hard to really say, so I understand if you don't take my word... But David has been throwing the ball between 2 & 2.5 seconds up to this point...
The clock goes to 8:38, as David steps up, withingarm reach of the defender... maybe he was gambling a bit, I don't know. As the defender grabs him, the clock goes from 8:38 to 8:37...

True enough, Vernand missed his block, I won't deny that. But David had been throwing the ball in less time than it took for him to notice the attacker. He completed his 5 step drop, plus a bounce. His step up, wasn't a step up to deliver the ball, it was a step up to try to escape.... which is why I question his forward motion.

In the very next drive, we see McNabb handle a similar situation, where Earl comes in untouched. McNabb isn't even finished with his 5 step drop when he sees Earl..... he continues to step backwards, and has neither feet on the ground, as he throws the ball over LJ Smith's head. LJ dives, and makes an incredible catch. McNabbs protection broke down, who was at fault for the sack??


I agree with you again, I said I wouldn't normally attribute this sack to Carr, except, he got what we wanted one on one coverage on AJ. Everybody else at Reliant knew this was a blitz. He takes five steps, sets up, loads up to throw it deep........... then pulls it back down. I think he should have thrown that ball. I'd bet AJ was open....... he was all night.

Ok, first, it was a play action pass. in that time, Carr had time to go back 4 or five steps, fake the hand off, then turn and look for his tightend(or maybe he's looking for Lundy).... it doesn't sound like a lot of time, I understand that.
But again, He knows it's man coverage, he knows the safety over him is going to follow Cook. If he knows what this play is supposed to do, he should know that he should have AJ on a quick slant to the endzone, which he does run.

I can understand not blaming Carr if you don't want to. Spencer had to block Darren Howard, Lewis, and a third guy that he did try to pick up. We can blame him. But, Carr could've been the hero, and got us six by hitting AJ who was going to be away from where all the coverage was going to be, instead of waiting for someone running a pattern into an area where all the coverage is going to be.

I bet Peyton would've hit AJ. I bet McNabb would've hit AJ.

Primary responsibility.... sure, Spencer.

Missed opportunity..... Carr.

I'm not sure so don't take what I say as fact, but what about timing. Carr maybe didn't want to throw the ball too soon. I mean we all saw him launch it to A.J. and the timing has to be better on a longer route. Maybe he didn't think he would hit A.J. and didn't see the opportunity. I mean when McNabb threw that off-balance throw, that wasn't supposed to be complete, but it was a) a closer throw and b) be he had a clear view to see defenders in that area. Carr maybe didn't have these advantages. Of course we're not on the field so we can't know what he does and doesn't see so maybe he saw or thought he saw something we didn't. Just a thought.

infantrycak
09-19-2006, 02:29 PM
So far for the season I have:

Philly

#1--2nd qtr 8:41--Morency
#2--2nd qtr 7:12--50% Daniels/50% Spencer
#3--2nd qtr 2:00--Spencer and maybe Daniels. Don't know if Daniels was supposed to release without even chipping someone. Find it hard to believe the coaches would want Spencer to allow the DE in that way to pick up a guy behind him especially releasing to the inside.
#4--3rd qtr 8:22--Putzier
#5--3rd qtr 4:32--crap happens--Flanny stepped on Carr

Stats, Inc. credited 1 sack (IMO half on #2 and #3) to Spencer.

Indy

#6--1st qtr 14:53--coaching--bootleg to start the game when it had to be a point of emphasis for the Colts preparation.
#7--1st qtr 12:04--Wiegert--slow off the snap and beat on an outside speed rush.
#8--3rd qtr 2:08--Wiegert--5 step drop and Brock busts thru to the inside and is diving at Carr as he finishes his drop.
#9--4th qtr 1:56--Salaam.

Stats, Inc. credited the sacks as 1.50 to Wiegert, .50 to McKinney, .50 to Salaam and .50 to Weary.

real
09-19-2006, 02:33 PM
Does anyone have a running total ??? Not from stats inc...but from the message board...

infantrycak
09-19-2006, 02:40 PM
Does anyone have a running total ??? Not from stats inc...but from the message board...

Well by my estimate it would be:

Morency-1
Daniels-1
Spencer-1
Putzier-1
Salaam-1
Wieger-2
Other-2

real
09-19-2006, 03:13 PM
Well by my estimate it would be:

Morency-1
Daniels-1
Spencer-1
Putzier-1
Salaam-1
Wiegert-2
Other-2

Thanks....Not just judging from the stats, but from general observation IMO, Wiegert needs to go...He is our worst lineman...IMO...

HOU-TEX
09-19-2006, 03:55 PM
Thanks....Not just judging from the stats, but from general observation IMO, Wiegert needs to go...He is our worst lineman...IMO...

I agree, I've been saying that ever since the middle of TC. I guess we have to play what we have. I'm assuming Kub and Co. think Winston's going to need alot of time to develope.

chuckm
09-19-2006, 06:33 PM
I love this thread ... thanks ICak .... it's my hope that eventually we won't need a "Regular Season Play" thread ...

camisgirl
09-20-2006, 09:48 PM
Do you think that he will be enough to turn this team around?

infantrycak
09-27-2006, 07:06 PM
So far for the season I have:

Philly

#1--2nd qtr 8:41--Morency
#2--2nd qtr 7:12--50% Daniels/50% Spencer
#3--2nd qtr 2:00--Spencer and maybe Daniels. Don't know if Daniels was supposed to release without even chipping someone. Find it hard to believe the coaches would want Spencer to allow the DE in that way to pick up a guy behind him especially releasing to the inside.
#4--3rd qtr 8:22--Putzier
#5--3rd qtr 4:32--crap happens--Flanny stepped on Carr

Stats, Inc. credited 1 sack (IMO half on #2 and #3) to Spencer.

Indy

#6--1st qtr 14:53--coaching--bootleg to start the game when it had to be a point of emphasis for the Colts preparation.
#7--1st qtr 12:04--Wiegert--slow off the snap and beat on an outside speed rush.
#8--3rd qtr 2:08--Wiegert--5 step drop and Brock busts thru to the inside and is diving at Carr as he finishes his drop.
#9--4th qtr 1:56--Salaam.

Stats, Inc. credited the sacks as 1.50 to Wiegert, .50 to McKinney, .50 to Salaam and .50 to Weary.

Washington

#10--1st qtr 6:15--7 step drop--Salaam and Dayne each let a Skin upfield of them to arrive at the drop point. A LB on a delayed blitz prevents stepping up. .5 to Salaam, .5 to Dayne.

edo783
09-27-2006, 09:32 PM
So far for the season I have:

Philly

#1--2nd qtr 8:41--Morency
#2--2nd qtr 7:12--50% Daniels/50% Spencer
#3--2nd qtr 2:00--Spencer and maybe Daniels. Don't know if Daniels was supposed to release without even chipping someone. Find it hard to believe the coaches would want Spencer to allow the DE in that way to pick up a guy behind him especially releasing to the inside.
#4--3rd qtr 8:22--Putzier
#5--3rd qtr 4:32--crap happens--Flanny stepped on Carr

Stats, Inc. credited 1 sack (IMO half on #2 and #3) to Spencer.

Indy

#6--1st qtr 14:53--coaching--bootleg to start the game when it had to be a point of emphasis for the Colts preparation.
#7--1st qtr 12:04--Wiegert--slow off the snap and beat on an outside speed rush.
#8--3rd qtr 2:08--Wiegert--5 step drop and Brock busts thru to the inside and is diving at Carr as he finishes his drop.
#9--4th qtr 1:56--Salaam.

Stats, Inc. credited the sacks as 1.50 to Wiegert, .50 to McKinney, .50 to Salaam and .50 to Weary.

Washington

#10--1st qtr 6:15--7 step drop--Salaam and Dayne each let a Skin upfield of them to arrive at the drop point. A LB on a delayed blitz prevents stepping up. .5 to Salaam, .5 to Dayne.


Based on this, unlike most of last year, most of the pressure is off the edge rather that directly up the middle. That by its self probably gives about .5 seconds more to get rid of the ball than last year. That and the occasional pocket to step up into, is likely the reason the sacks are down.

infantrycak
09-27-2006, 11:20 PM
Based on this, unlike most of last year, most of the pressure is off the edge rather that directly up the middle. That by its self probably gives about .5 seconds more to get rid of the ball than last year. That and the occasional pocket to step up into, is likely the reason the sacks are down.

I would say that is correct. Particularly in 2004 there was a ton of up the middle pressure. Last year once McKinney moved back from guard to center the pressure up the middle increased although IMO he played much better in 2005 than 2004. Carr has shown a marked improvement in moving up into the pocket when available but still has lots of room for improvement.

utahmark
09-30-2006, 11:31 PM
its not alot of fun analyzing sacks when our team is playing this bad. maybe if we could win one.

Runner
10-05-2006, 09:55 AM
So what is the current count?

infantrycak
10-05-2006, 10:27 AM
So far for the season I have:

Philly

#1--2nd qtr 8:41--Morency
#2--2nd qtr 7:12--50% Daniels/50% Spencer
#3--2nd qtr 2:00--Spencer and maybe Daniels. Don't know if Daniels was supposed to release without even chipping someone. Find it hard to believe the coaches would want Spencer to allow the DE in that way to pick up a guy behind him especially releasing to the inside.
#4--3rd qtr 8:22--Putzier
#5--3rd qtr 4:32--crap happens--Flanny stepped on Carr

Stats, Inc. credited 1 sack (IMO half on #2 and #3) to Spencer.

Indy

#6--1st qtr 14:53--coaching--bootleg to start the game when it had to be a point of emphasis for the Colts preparation.
#7--1st qtr 12:04--Wiegert--slow off the snap and beat on an outside speed rush.
#8--3rd qtr 2:08--Wiegert--5 step drop and Brock busts thru to the inside and is diving at Carr as he finishes his drop.
#9--4th qtr 1:56--Salaam.

Stats, Inc. credited the sacks as 1.50 to Wiegert, .50 to McKinney, .50 to Salaam and .50 to Weary.

Washington

#10--1st qtr 6:15--7 step drop--Salaam and Dayne each let a Skin upfield of them to arrive at the drop point. A LB on a delayed blitz prevents stepping up. .5 to Salaam, .5 to Dayne.

Miami

#11--1st qtr 11:28--Pitts briefly chucks DT and then slides to help Salaam. Hodgden doesn't get squared up on DT. 7 step drop just completed when hit. Would have to know the assignments for sure but I will give the guess in favor of experience over youth knowing what was to happen--1 on Hodg.
#12--1st qtr 3:35--Wiegert takes a 1st step like he is going to help McKinney then appears to figure out DE is unblocked--1 Wiegert
#13--3rd qtr 14:04--Cook & Bedell allow pressure from both edges. 5 step drop--Carr looks left and right then tries to escape up the middle getting back to land inches shy of the LOS. If coaches film shows someone open it might be on Carr but without that--.5 Cook, .5 Bedell
#14--3rd qtr 11:28--Bedell just beaten by Taylor--1 Bedell
#15--3rd 4:56--Salaam is beaten by Taylor but not before Carr has taken a 7 step drop, looked right then left and commentator says he has an open man, assuming true--1 Carr

Stats, Inc. evidently did not split #13 and gave Bedell 2 sacks.

Running total:
Morency-1
Dayne-.5
Cook-.5
Daniels-1
Putzier-1
Spencer-1
Wiegert-3
Salaam-1.5
Hodgden-1
Bedell-1.5

Carr-1
Other-2

Runner
10-05-2006, 10:46 AM
Thanks. That's 4 from the left tackle spot. We are on pace for 16 from there - if it doesn't get worse due to the loss of Spencer and the hobbled Salaam.

HOU-TEX
10-05-2006, 10:50 AM
Thanks. That's 4 from the left tackle spot. We are on pace for 16 from there - if it doesn't get worse due to the loss of Spencer and the hobbled Salaam.

Look at Weigert with 3. You can at least make excuses for the LT spot being backups rotating in and out. Weigert's been a starter for Pete sake.:brickwall

Runner
10-05-2006, 10:57 AM
Look at Weigert with 3. You can at least make excuses for the LT spot being backups rotating in and out. Weigert's been a starter for Pete sake.:brickwall

Yep - I made that point on the other thread we are going back and forth on. :)

real
10-05-2006, 10:57 AM
Running total:
Morency-1
Dayne-.5
Cook-.5
Daniels-1
Putzier-1
Spencer-1
Wiegert-3
Salaam-1.5
Hodgden-1
Bedell-1.5

Carr-1
Other-2

I hear a lot of talk about the LT position and the revolving door it has become....

But IMO, RT is where we are in dire need of an upgrade...Next season Wiegert needs to go....Either Winston needs to step up, or we need to find someone...I haven't watched Wiegert in Run blocking much...In fact I kinda stopped watching the Line after my boy Spencer Went down....But 3 sacks...from your RT ? That IMO, is poor...he is on pace for 12 sacks by his lonesome....

infantrycak
10-05-2006, 10:58 AM
I have included the game clock, etc. so folks can take a look for themselves and say if they see it differently.

HOU-TEX
10-05-2006, 11:01 AM
Yep - I made that point on the other thread we are going back and forth on. :)

LOL! Yea I know. I'm going to give the o-line talk a rest for a while anyways. :cool:

real
10-05-2006, 11:04 AM
I have included the game clock, etc. so folks can take a look for themselves and say if they see it differently.

Regardless if Wiegert has 3 or not(which I CAN believe) he still needs to go IMO...After I saw him get handled a couple times in pre-season...and I can't remember exactly who we were playing...but I recall one play where he just got plain embarrassed...the DE just ran through him like he wasn't there....Even if you take away one of those sacks...he's still the team leader in the worst way....

HOU-TEX
10-05-2006, 11:07 AM
Regardless if Wiegert has 3 or not(which I CAN believe) he still needs to go IMO...After I saw him get handled a couple times in pre-season...and I can't remember exactly who we were playing...but I recall one play where he just got plain embarrassed...the DE just ran through him like he wasn't there....Even if you take away one of those sacks...he's still the team leader in the worst way....

I believe it was against Indy. Mathis just ran around him like he was standing. still.:hides:

thunderkyss
11-04-2006, 08:14 PM
I'm guessing this isn't as much fun any more??

We seem to be slipping.

There's one sack from the Dallas game, and 4 sacks from the Tennessee game

infantrycak
11-05-2006, 07:19 PM
Well I will put up my opinion of the last 3 games in a couple days. Was kind of holding off to see if someone else would jump in with an opinion.

dantem
11-07-2006, 07:09 PM
Giants Game,

David's left foot again...

Everybody else did OK if I remember correctly.

threetoedpete
12-10-2006, 07:36 PM
So...can I have my left tackle in the first round this year in the draft ?

thunderkyss
12-21-2006, 12:33 PM
hey Infantrycak....... can we get an update on who StatsInc credit the sack responsibility??

infantrycak
12-21-2006, 12:46 PM
hey Infantrycak....... can we get an update on who StatsInc credit the sack responsibility??

Well sure--here is the Link for the Texans (http://snap.stats.com/snap/pfw/nfl/findplayer.asp)

Brad Bedell-2
Chester Pitts-3.75
Ephram Salaam-6.5
Charles Spencer-1
Fred Weary-3
Eric Winston-2.5
Zach Wiegert-3.75
Steve McKinney-.5
Mike Flannigan-.75
Drew Hodgden-3

LT-9.5
LG-3.75
C-4.25
RG-3.5
RT-6.25

Total 27.25 out of 42 so 14.75 on the QB, RB's and TE's.

threetoedpete
12-23-2006, 05:21 PM
The cihuahuah on the animal house sports radio threw out 48 for the year on his show wensday, correct ?

268 for the agregate ?

So the tackles are leading... What's the Intrafrycak's line ?

threetoedpete
01-03-2007, 02:42 PM
No totals ? Totals didn't fit the agenda ? Like to see this one unsticked and sticky the draft threads..Value charts, traded picks, free agents list. Go off season mode moderators ? any chance ?

Runner
01-03-2007, 03:41 PM
No totals ? Totals didn't fit the agenda ? Like to see this one unsticked and sticky the draft threads..Value charts, traded picks, free agents list. Go off season mode moderators ? any chance ?

What agenda? This post was started for anyone to put their own thoughts in. Apparently no one was very interested in reviewing the games closely after the Texans ugly start.

Feel free to put in the totals as you see fit.

I'll let icak unstick it when he's ready.

TexansSeminole
01-12-2007, 07:54 PM
Well sure--here is the Link for the Texans (http://snap.stats.com/snap/pfw/nfl/findplayer.asp)

Brad Bedell-2
Chester Pitts-3.75
Ephram Salaam-6.5
Charles Spencer-1
Fred Weary-3
Eric Winston-2.5
Zach Wiegert-3.75
Steve McKinney-.5
Mike Flannigan-.75
Drew Hodgden-3

LT-9.5
LG-3.75
C-4.25
RG-3.5
RT-6.25

Total 27.25 out of 42 so 14.75 on the QB, RB's and TE's.

Salaam being an older player it is obvious we need a new player at LT. I've heard Rick Smith say that it is likely that Charles Spencer will be back but he will prepare as if he will not be ready.

That's 35% of the sacks caused by the offensive line and 22% of the overall sack total.

How many games did Winston play? 2.5 sacks allowed is not bad at all for a rookie.