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View Full Version : Daunte Culpepper - critical analysis


gtexan02
09-08-2006, 10:04 AM
Did anyone else notice last night how poorly Culpepper played? In many ways, he made all the mistakes that Carr is criticized for, only much, much worse.

-The majority of his completions were WR screens or flat routes
-The majority of his yards came on 2 fluke long plays (totaling over 80 yards)
-He didn't step up into the pocket, instead dropping back and taking sacks
-He locked onto a receiver, waited for the route to develop, then threw the ball, causing 2 INTs (he was LOCKED on, in both of those)
-Twice he had throws to no one on deep balls (throwing the route, not the receiver)

I always thought Culpepper was going to be a huge addition, and that his problems in Min came from injury/distraction, but last night he looked like a rookie in way over his head. True, there was a pass to Chambers in the endzone that hit him i the hands and then the face, but Culpepper also missed two or three wide open looks to Chambers.

What do you think?

Kaiser Toro
09-08-2006, 10:09 AM
Critical analysis? Sure:

First game with a new team.

First game after coming off a major injury.

First game was on the Super Bowl Champions home field after an emotional week for Pittsburgh.

real
09-08-2006, 10:11 AM
Did anyone else notice last night how poorly Culpepper played? In many ways, he made all the mistakes that Carr is criticized for, only much, much worse.

-The majority of his completions were WR screens or flat routes
-The majority of his yards came on 2 fluke long plays (totaling over 80 yards)
-He didn't step up into the pocket, instead dropping back and taking sacks
-He locked onto a receiver, waited for the route to develop, then threw the ball, causing 2 INTs (he was LOCKED on, in both of those)
-Twice he had throws to no one on deep balls (throwing the route, not the receiver)

I always thought Culpepper was going to be a huge addition, and that his problems in Min came from injury/distraction, but last night he looked like a rookie in way over his head. True, there was a pass to Chambers in the endzone that hit him i the hands and then the face, but Culpepper also missed two or three wide open looks to Chambers.

What do you think?

In no way...shape....or form was culpeppers game similar to Carr other than the fact that they both play the same position...Tis' true that Culpepper missed on a couple of throws, but every QB in the leauge misses throws ocassionally....He didn't play extremely well...But IMO, he didn't play anywhere near the level of Carr...He is on a whole different level than Carr and comparing the two is ridiculous....He sat in the pocket, avoided the rush, and kept his eyes up field....Three things that Carr has yet to string together...:tease:

real
09-08-2006, 10:12 AM
What do you think?

Me thinks you're off your rocker...:rolleyes:

gtexan02
09-08-2006, 10:20 AM
He didn't miss a few throws....did you watch the game? He missed over half his throws. His throws were way behind, way too low, or way too high for his receivers. Even on little screens to the WR where he immediately kicked the ball out he sometimes missed. Even his tosses to R. Brown were off--on that one pitch, he didn't sell the fake at all, then barely made the toss to Brown, thus messing up the 3rd and 2.

When he threw to Chambers or Booker deep, it was often just a jump ball. He had no placement on it at all. Moss would have made the catch, but he's the only one.

Other than the 1st Porter sack, the rest were HIS fault. He just sat in the pocket, holding the ball, doing his best impersonation of Drew Bledsoe.

On BOTH INTs, he started the play following ONE WR, and heaved the bal in his direction (the one to Polamalu was a bad throw to begin with). Polamalu should have picked TWO off (one hit him in the hands after he jumped the route).

I'm sorry, but I thought he looked terrible. Call it what you want - new team, against Pittsburgh, etc, but there were many times when he had a long time in the pocket and made a terrible decision.

Kaiser Toro
09-08-2006, 10:28 AM
Since we are doing a "critical" analysis maybe we should look at the full body of data that is available:

Culpepper Stats
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/133263

Carr stats
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/306268

Oh yes, Carr definetly deserves to be mentioned in the same air as these QB's as well. Carr's name nust have been omitted by mistake or it is a conspiracy:
http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/release.jsp?release_id=1982

Please show me where these two players are remotely the same. :rolleyes:

real
09-08-2006, 10:33 AM
He didn't miss a few throws....did you watch the game? He missed over half his throws. His throws were way behind, way too low, or way too high for his receivers. Even on little screens to the WR where he immediately kicked the ball out he sometimes missed. Even his tosses to R. Brown were off--on that one pitch, he didn't sell the fake at all, then barely made the toss to Brown, thus messing up the 3rd and 2.

When he threw to Chambers or Booker deep, it was often just a jump ball. He had no placement on it at all. Moss would have made the catch, but he's the only one.

Other than the 1st Porter sack, the rest were HIS fault. He just sat in the pocket, holding the ball, doing his best impersonation of Drew Bledsoe.

On BOTH INTs, he started the play following ONE WR, and heaved the bal in his direction (the one to Polamalu was a bad throw to begin with). Polamalu should have picked TWO off (one hit him in the hands after he jumped the route).

I'm sorry, but I thought he looked terrible. Call it what you want - new team, against Pittsburgh, etc, but there were many times when he had a long time in the pocket and made a terrible decision.

You are right...He did play horrible....But his horrible is Carrs normal.....

Get...outta...town...

real
09-08-2006, 10:38 AM
By no means do I think Culpepper is a Brady, Manning, Palmer talent...But He is better than Carr....

Kaiser Toro
09-08-2006, 10:42 AM
but there were many times when he had a long time in the pocket and made a terrible decision.

So did he make bad decisions or bad throws?

chuckm
09-08-2006, 10:42 AM
So this is today's Carr Bash Thread ..... sweet .... :popcorn:


IMO, he played pretty well under the circumstances .......

he made two mistakes late though that'll put a damper on it ....

He didn't recognize the Zone Blitz look, which had Porter dropping off the line, and threw a pick
He locked onto Chambers and got another one picked ....

:twocents:

real
09-08-2006, 10:44 AM
Well he didn't show it last night.

So we judge players off of one night now??? So off of that one night he has proven himself Carr's equal...ree-dic-o-lusss

real
09-08-2006, 10:48 AM
I just find it hilarious that you start a thread about Culpeppers bad game...and then say he does the same things Carr does...uhh..no he doesn't...He may have mad some bad choices, bad throws in his first game back after missing most of last year coming off major knee surgery....but after all that Carr still is comparable to him...You are only making Carr look worst...Culpepper had a bad game, but like I said....His bad, is Carr's normal...

real
09-08-2006, 10:49 AM
Carr hasn't played a game yet in the new system.....ree-dic-o-lusss

Are you insane??? Who said anything about how Carr has played in the new system ?

real
09-08-2006, 10:51 AM
So let me get this right...you all are saying that Carr is/has shown himself to be just as good as Culpepper ??

real
09-08-2006, 10:52 AM
Culpepper has played one game and Carr hasn't.

This isn't Rocket Science.

Culpepper has played One game this SEASON....Honestly I don't know what point you are trying to prove...what exactly are you trying to say?? Carr=Culpepper..or Carr>Culpepper...Which is it ?

Kaiser Toro
09-08-2006, 10:53 AM
Culpepper was horrible before he got hurt last year. 6 TD's and 12 Int's.

Ok, what should we derive from that? That Carr and Culpepper are equals? The results speak volumes in my opinion and unfortunately for those that are postioning this parallel are driving with their heart rather than the data.

real
09-08-2006, 10:54 AM
Ok, what should we derive from that? That Carr and Culpepper are equals? The results speak volumes in my opinion and unfortunately for those that are postioning this parallel are driving with their heart rather than the data.

Dito. Rep coming your way...

gtexan02
09-08-2006, 10:55 AM
This board has gone CRAZY!!! What have we all turned into?? Ahh! Why does everything have to be about Carr all the time! I mean JEEZ, try and READ my post before making it into some huge statement. So far I have gotten flack for saying:

Carr is better than Culpepper - Did I say this? no...
Culpepper is bad - Did I say this either? no...
Notice a trend??

All I said was LAST NIGHT (notice the specific date, not trying to say that he is always like this) Culpepper made some mistakes that resemble those that Carr is CRITICIZED for making.

Never did I say one was better than the other, or even imply it. All I said was that LAST NIGHT Culpepper made some mistakes, and then I listed them for everyone to see.

Culpepper looked VERY shaky last night. Ever since he lost Randy Moss, he has shown me NOTHING. Can you dispute this?

Kaiser Toro
09-08-2006, 10:55 AM
Nevermind I shouldn't have got caught up in a bash Carr thread. I'm done. Good Bye and have a nice day.

Go Texans!
:)

Good move. Thread gets started analyzing Culpepper against Carr and when posters offer up a breakdown that blows it up we are the bad guys. Fits well within the logic du jour this country has these days where emotion rather than fact gathering and astute observation are thrown out the door.

chuckm
09-08-2006, 10:56 AM
This board has gone CRAZY!!! What have we all turned into?? Ahh! Why does everything have to be about Carr all the time! I mean JEEZ, try and READ my post before making it into some huge statement. So far I have gotten flack for saying:

Carr is better than Culpepper - Did I say this? no...
Culpepper is bad - Did I say this either? no...
Notice a trend??

All I said was LAST NIGHT (notice the specific date, not trying to say that he is always like this) Culpepper made some mistakes that resemble those that Carr is CRITICIZED for making.

Never did I say one was better than the other, or even imply it. All I said was that LAST NIGHT Culpepper made some mistakes, and then I listed them for everyone to see.

Culpepper looked VERY shaky last night. Ever since he lost Randy Moss, he has shown me NOTHING. Can you dispute this?


You used the word CARR ...... Grab a pitchfiork fellas, he went thataway! .....

real
09-08-2006, 10:57 AM
This board has gone CRAZY!!! What have we all turned into?? Ahh! Why does everything have to be about Carr all the time! I mean JEEZ, try and READ my post before making it into some huge statement. So far I have gotten flack for saying:

Carr is better than Culpepper - Did I say this? no...
Culpepper is bad - Did I say this either? no...
Notice a trend??

All I said was LAST NIGHT (notice the specific date, not trying to say that he is always like this) Culpepper made some mistakes that resemble those that Carr is CRITICIZED for making.

Never did I say one was better than the other, or even imply it. All I said was that LAST NIGHT Culpepper made some mistakes, and then I listed them for everyone to see.

Culpepper looked VERY shaky last night. Ever since he lost Randy Moss, he has shown me NOTHING. Can you dispute this?


I get you...But you should have known what would have come just by mentioning that ugly four letter word....CARR...:tease:

real
09-08-2006, 10:59 AM
Good move. Thread gets started analyzing Culpepper against Carr and when posters offer up a breakdown that blows it up we are the bad guys. Fits well within the logic du jour this country has these days where emotion rather than fact gathering and astute observation are thrown out the door.

just reposting this because I like it so much...

gtexan02
09-08-2006, 11:00 AM
Ok let me start over: NEW THREAD:

Here are my points that I want to discuss:

Culpepper made some very poor plays last night, including:
-Locking on to receivers
-Taking sacks by holding the ball
-Making bad throws (there seemed to more than a few throws to no one)
-Overthrows/Underthrows (a lot of catches seemed to require serious adjustment from his WRs, which subsequently limited YAC)
-Repeatedly throwing the hitch/wr screen

*disclaimer: Some of these or all of these may or may not be similar to any other QBs in the league.

He has looked very shaky since Randy Moss left Minnesota, throwing a lot of INTs. Is anyone concerned for his play?

chuckm
09-08-2006, 11:03 AM
Good move. Thread gets started analyzing Culpepper against Carr and when posters offer up a breakdown that blows it up we are the bad guys.

No bad guys here ...... and if I read his original post correctly he said something like "Culpepper made the same mistakes Carr gets criticized for" .....

yea well duh ..... every QB that's drawn a breath has done this stuff at some point .... now we can discuss the frequency of the mistakes because IMO it's certainly a concern ....


Fits well within the logic du jour this country has these days where emotion rather than fact gathering and astute observation are thrown out the door.

I agree

gtexan02
09-08-2006, 11:04 AM
I promise this was not supposed to be a "He who must not be named" thread, despite what it may or may not have appeared to be. Yikes, you get crucified for every misunderstanding on here, and FAST!

EDIT:
I think this is what I'm getting in trouble for:
"In many ways, he made all the mistakes that (sic)He who must not be named is criticized for, only much, much worse."

Please realize that I didn't mean that one was better than the other, but that in this one particular game, one looked like he was making certain mistakes over and over again with more dire of consequences. Misunderstanding, please believe :)

real
09-08-2006, 11:06 AM
Ok let me start over: NEW THREAD:

Here are my points that I want to discuss:

Culpepper made some very poor plays last night, including:
-Locking on to receivers
-Taking sacks by holding the ball
-Making bad throws (there seemed to more than a few throws to no one)
-Overthrows/Underthrows (a lot of catches seemed to require serious adjustment from his WRs, which subsequently limited YAC)
-Repeatedly throwing the hitch/wr screen

*disclaimer: Some of these or all of these may or may not be similar to any other QBs in the league.

He has looked very shaky since Randy Moss left Minnesota, throwing a lot of INTs. Is anyone concerned for his play?

IMO, he will be o.k...I think that it's only natural to see a decline in numbers and/or play after losing a reciever of Moss' caliber...He would boost any QB's numbers...and don't forget...The Dolphins fell apart right at the end...take away a couple mistakes, or even if Saban gets that challenge and they hold them to a field goal(unlikely but could have happened) it would have been a totally different game and Culpeppers mistakes wouldn't be magnified like they are...

TheOgre
09-08-2006, 11:10 AM
Can you truly evaluate a player based upon one game?

If so, Brady is awful based on his game against the Broncos.

gtexan02
09-08-2006, 11:12 AM
I'm basing him on the last 8 games I've seen him play, from 2005 to present. He has 6 TDs, and 14 INts. Maybe he'll turn around in Mia, but I guess we'll see.

BigBull17
09-08-2006, 11:43 AM
By no means do I think Culpepper is a Brady, Manning, Palmer talent...But He is better than Carr....

Yeah, but Culpepper had Moss and a supporting cast most of the time in Minn. When you took Moss and his line got dinged up last year, the two looked strangly simmilar. But it is only the first game and let him have a season befor you throw the book at them, either of them.

MightyTExan
09-08-2006, 12:21 PM
Those 2 deep passes that went to the empty field. I thought Culppeper was looking for Moss on those plays, lol.

jerek
09-08-2006, 12:29 PM
I only saw the first half. Culpepper made some really bad throws; I can't tell if he is just nervous about stepping into his throws or nervous about getting hit and reinjuring himself, but it seems to me his injury is still in his head or possibly it just doesn't feel right yet.

That said I was impressed with his poise under pressure, he seemed to have a good awareness of the play developing and numerous times (partially through his O-line's good blocking or the Steelers' limited rush) waited, waited, waited, and then made a good throw.

He looked pretty good, from what I saw (again, only first half. I haven't even checked the final score or his stat line yet.)

TheOgre
09-08-2006, 12:35 PM
I'm basing him on the last 8 games I've seen him play, from 2005 to present. He has 6 TDs, and 14 INts. Maybe he'll turn around in Mia, but I guess we'll see.

A lot of people do not realize this, but he was injured in the 1st quarter of the 1st game last year against Tampa Bay. He was never the same the rest of the year and the injury in game 6-7 was a mercy blow. He had a MVP-type season in 2004 but was the victim of Manning's best year yet.

He just needs to get his Mojo back and he will be a stud again. It may not happen this year, as he comes back from a severe injury, but I think he will be back in his zone by 2007.

HOU-TEX
09-08-2006, 12:49 PM
I only saw the first half. Culpepper made some really bad throws; I can't tell if he is just nervous about stepping into his throws or nervous about getting hit and reinjuring himself, but it seems to me his injury is still in his head or possibly it just doesn't feel right yet.

That said I was impressed with his poise under pressure, he seemed to have a good awareness of the play developing and numerous times (partially through his O-line's good blocking or the Steelers' limited rush) waited, waited, waited, and then made a good throw.

He looked pretty good, from what I saw (again, only first half. I haven't even checked the final score or his stat line yet.)

I saw just the opposite of you, I only watched the second half. He did make a few bad throws, mainly being behind the reciever. I thought he looked fairly comfortable until the blocking started going south in the fourth qtr. I think there's definetly some rust that needs to be knocked off.:)

Porky
09-08-2006, 02:19 PM
I agree with Gtexan. I even turned to my wife at one point and said who put David Carr in Culpeppers uniform. I thought he was tentative, had happy feet, was often low, behind the receiver, or just inaccurate, seemed to be sensing the rush to soon dumping it off, seemed to misread the D a lot, etc. In short, he reminded me of a typical Carr game. The difference here is that Culpepper has done it before. It's whether or not he can return to his earlier performances, and if the injury and general rustiness is playing a part. But, I totally agree with the original post - yes he definately looked like Carr to me.

Corrosion
09-08-2006, 02:47 PM
Pittsburgh's defense has a way of making just about every QB look bad .

That said I think Culpepper is highly over rated and much of his success in Minn. could be direcvtly attributed to having Randy Moss to throw to . As much as I dislike the character that is Moss I think he is / was the best reciever in the game while in Minn. He would routinely beat people deep and allow his QB to just throw it up for him to go get .

infantrycak
09-08-2006, 04:25 PM
Pittsburgh's defense has a way of making just about every QB look bad .

That said I think Culpepper is highly over rated and much of his success in Minn. could be direcvtly attributed to having Randy Moss to throw to . As much as I dislike the character that is Moss I think he is / was the best reciever in the game while in Minn. He would routinely beat people deep and allow his QB to just throw it up for him to go get .

You don't get 64.4% completions by just chucking it deep and hoping Moss will save you. Fact is Culpepper's best year came when Moss was injured and only moderately effective. Take Moss out of that year and Culpepper still went 69.2%, 3950 yds, 26 TD's, 11 INT's + 2 rushing TD's. Pretty darn impressive numbers after omitting the best receiver in the game.

gtexan02
09-08-2006, 09:40 PM
The problem with his deep ball is that he "throws it up there" for anyone to get. It worked with Moss because he could outjump the defender, but its not going to fly with Chambers

thunderkyss
09-08-2006, 10:05 PM
On BOTH INTs, he started the play following ONE WR, and heaved the bal in his direction (the one to Polamalu was a bad throw to begin with). Polamalu should have picked TWO off (one hit him in the hands after he jumped the route).

I'm sorry, but I thought he looked terrible. Call it what you want - new team, against Pittsburgh, etc, but there were many times when he had a long time in the pocket and made a terrible decision.

He didn't play great. But.... he was playing Pittsbugh, and he is coming off a knee injury. But he got better as the game went on, He finally found ChrisChambers late in the second QTR, and on into the second half.

On the INT by Palamalu, Pepper started in the center of the field, and worked his way to the right.... & I don't remember the Porter INT...... I wasn't watching Daunte that closely on that one. I knew he missed Porter standing right there.

I also thought the last three sacks were off to the right of the pocket, where Pep was trying to buy time....... I think we'd call those coverage sacks.

If I were a Dolphin fan, I wouldn't be very upset...... I'd be more upset with my defense than Cullpepper. But If I watched Culpepper play like that for 4 years, I'd be pretty upset.

OH...... before the Palamalu INT, it looked like the Dolphins ran the same play twice in a row, and the third play was pretty similar.....

thunderkyss
09-08-2006, 10:14 PM
I thought he looked good for someone in a new system, playing the best defense in the NFL coming off a massive surgery and with a new team. He has always been the kind of QB to throw picks though...that's his big knock. Other than that, he looked like he was looking downfield and wasn't afraid to challenge the seam.

I'd trade Carr for him straight up right now.

I always thought his biggest problem was a lack of leadership........ but coming to the team as a rookie, with the likes of ChrisCarter, it's kinda hard to just grab hold of a team. Then with Randy doing exactly the same thing, I can understand Dante.......... being passive.


I would've bishSlapped RandyMyself......

But coming to Miami, as a veteran QB, I doubt he'll continue to have problems there.

thunderkyss
09-08-2006, 10:15 PM
The problem with his deep ball is that he "throws it up there" for anyone to get. It worked with Moss because he could outjump the defender, but its not going to fly with Chambers

We'll see. He managed to connect with Chris Carter in the endzone many many times.......

Honoring Earl 34
09-09-2006, 12:22 AM
What is amazing is that Culpepper and Palmer can destroy their knee and be back in less than a year .

I would give Culpepper a C for his performance . A C for a QB coming to a new team , playing SB champs on the road , and coming of an injury shows why Culpepper may be a has been but Dave still is a never was .

TexansBull
09-09-2006, 12:43 AM
Culpepper...I have always thought that he is overrated. He is an average QB, at his best. His best stats are with two great WRs. And a decent HC that knew how to put a team together. He is just too inconsistent. Miami is betting on the wrong horse. Well, dont bet on Harrington either. The only reason miami makes it into the playoffs is because of thier cake schedule.

gtexan02
09-17-2006, 11:45 PM
Now do you believe me? Now do you see that I think he's overrated?

gtexan02
10-03-2006, 03:24 PM
How about now :)

jerek
10-03-2006, 03:44 PM
How about now :)

Seriously.

thunderkyss
10-03-2006, 08:48 PM
Culpepper...I have always thought that he is overrated. He is an average QB, at his best. His best stats are with two great WRs. And a decent HC that knew how to put a team together. He is just too inconsistent. Miami is betting on the wrong horse. Well, dont bet on Harrington either. The only reason miami makes it into the playoffs is because of thier cake schedule.



Now do you believe me? Now do you see that I think he's overrated?

How about he's been playing behind the worse offensive line in the NFL....... or does that only work with guys from FresnoState??

texan279
10-03-2006, 08:51 PM
Now do you believe me? Now do you see that I think he's overrated?

No, I don't think he is 100% yet from his knee injury, add to that the line he is playing behind now.