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View Full Version : Different prespective of Lions and Texans Matchup


DetroitLions
09-18-2004, 01:42 AM
Feel free to agree disagree with my analysis... please explain why also, i like having insight from other teams fans... this is not really based on depth eaither becase that would be looking too far into things...
OFFENSE
QB - Carr vs Harrington: a great story a breat debate... both have struggled since being in the NFL... Edge: push, both have yet to prove anything...

RB - Davis vs Jones - Jones, well is a rookie, and Davis has become a borderline very good NFL RB... edge Domanick Davis...

O-Line - Lions vs Texans: Texans O-Line is decent but not great... Detroit's O-Line somehow got the persona of being terrible, while i think they are very good... ESPN has bettered my argument by ranking the Texans O-Line 21 and the Lions O-Line 13... Edge: Lions

FB - Norris vs Schlesinger: Norris isnt healthy right now, and Baxter is the backup... Corey "sledge" Schlesinger is IMO the toughtest fullback in football, and is he a very good blocking FB... Edge Lions

WR - This is a simple one... With Rogers the Lions are better, without Rogers the Texans are better... Edge: Texans

DEFENSE
Defenseive front 7: its hard to comapre a 3-4 to a 4-3 so i will just leave thatup to someone else, who might have a solid stance about it... but based on the Lions DE's sucking and having a razor thin core of LBs due to injuries, this can only go 1 way... Edge: Texans

CBs: very much like the WRs. with Bly and Bryant the Lions have a clear edge.. but without, i have to give this one to the Texans, Glenn is a good CB, and Coleman is a pretty good starter... Edge: Texans

Safeties - even with the amazing performance last week, Bracy Walker still isnt a very good Safety and would have to have more good games to show last week wasnt a fluke(92 yard blocked kcik return, and game winning INT)... Marion is old, but disguises his loss of physical ability well, by playing with what he has -- experience... Brown and McCree were both less then spectacular last season... but the stats look better then the Lions... Edge: Lions...(Brock Marion isnt all the way done, and has been around)...

Let me know what yiu guys think...

texan279
09-18-2004, 02:10 AM
Brown and McCree were both less then spectacular last season... but the stats look better then the Lions... Edge: Lions...(Brock Marion isnt all the way done, and has been around)...

McCree doesn't start at FS anymore, Marcus Coleman does. Safety is a position that worries me.

CBs: very much like the WRs. with Bly and Bryant the Lions have a clear edge.. but without, i have to give this one to the Texans, Glenn is a good CB, and Coleman is a pretty good starter... Edge: Texans

Glenn and Dunta Robinson start at the corners.

DetroitLions
09-18-2004, 02:33 AM
McCree doesn't start at FS anymore, Marcus Coleman does. Safety is a position that worries me.



Glenn and Dunta Robinson start at the corners.
So, Coleman is a worry at Safety? and i heard Dunta was getting beat up so far this season... on a scale from 1-10, how would you rate the secondary?

texan279
09-18-2004, 02:44 AM
So, Coleman is a worry at Safety? and i heard Dunta was getting beat up so far this season... on a scale from 1-10, how would you rate the secondary?

Brown got torched last weekend, Coleman did an OK job I guess, Robinson isn't really getting beat up, he is just making rookie mistakes. Based on our secondary play last weekend I would have to say I would say 4 maybe a 5, but that's just me, I am sure other people will have different opinions.

TEXANS84
09-18-2004, 03:05 AM
For losing to the (and I know our turnovers is what killed us) Chargers and not being able to stop them on 3rd and long...a 5.

Jwwillis
09-18-2004, 03:23 AM
The secondary as of game one is the defenses biggest weakness. It is to be expected with the changes made in the off season. All in all I think DetroitLions has a decent breakdown even though he got some starters wrong. Was wondering 2 things though. Who do you predect to win and why do you think that the diffrence between our fullbacks is a key matchup stat?

texan279
09-18-2004, 05:20 AM
Was wondering 2 things though. Who do you predect to win and why do you think that the diffrence between our fullbacks is a key matchup stat?

Houston to win. IMO fullback spot is important because you need a good blocker in that spot to lead block for the running back. Also, its not bad if you have a fullback that can catch the ball out of the backfield. Houston doesn't use the fullback to run the ball much though, mainly the fullback in our offense is used as a lead blocker.

brickmantexanfan
09-18-2004, 07:53 AM
I'll get back to ya in mid season
idonno:

texasguy346
09-18-2004, 01:58 PM
Overall I think it's a pretty fair assessment, but I'd go even farther and break down the O-Lines of the two teams on both their run and pass blocking. I think that Detroit is cleary better in the pass blocking department, but I think the Texans have the advantage when it comes to run blocking. The new zone blocking scheme seems to fit DD like a glove, and I look for him to have a big year.

I can't say I agree with your assessment of the WRs. Even with a healthy Rogers I would call it a push compared with our WRs. Tai Streets hasn't really shown much, and I think someone noted in another thread that Hakim has fumbling problems. The Texans, on the other hand, have AJ (everyone already knows what he can do) with Bradford (big play threat meant to stretch the field) and then Gaffney who's a very good 3rd down receiver and great in the slot. Armstrong is our 4th WR who has excellent hands like Gaffney, and looks to have good quickness. Then Kendrick Starling rounds out the bunch, but likely won't see any time in the game at WR. It should be a great game, and I look for the Texans to win a close one.

TexasJedi
09-18-2004, 02:35 PM
Anyone else think that Dunta is getting a bit of a raw deal for his play last week?

Alright, he did fall down on Caldwell's double move, chalk it up as a rookie mistake. I don't see Dunta letting that happen to him again.

Now the penalty was an armbar, and it seems to me that he was a victim of the NFL's crackdown on DB's making contact w/ WR's beyond 5 yards. I thought it should have been a 5 yard illeagal contact penalty, am I wrong? Last year the Patriots get praised for the same play against the Colts.

While those two plays were glaring, aside from that, I thought Dunta was pretty solid. I've even heard some fans declare Dunta a bust after one dang game.

HoustonLionsFan
09-18-2004, 05:06 PM
I think that Detroit is cleary better in the pass blocking department, but I think the Texans have the advantage when it comes to run blocking. The new zone blocking scheme seems to fit DD like a glove, and I look for him to have a big year.

I can't say I agree with your assessment of the WRs. Even with a healthy Rogers I would call it a push compared with our WRs.

I agree

I would also give Carr the slight advantage at QB

I wouldn't say the Lions LB's are razor thin either, Boss is the only one out. The 4-3 and 3-4 are difficult to compare. The DT's for the Lions are solid to very good. It is the DE's of the Lions that are questionable. In preseason they looked horrible, last week they played average. The LB's for the Lions are young, except Holmes who is old and slow. The inexperience of Lehman is the difference, but he hustles. If the DE's of the Lions play well I call it a push. If they don't, Texans all the way.

I also think, even with Bly out, the CB's are a push. The Texans have a rookie, and the Lions have their second string CB, who started his rookie year.

Both teams are weak at SS and have good FS's. Push.

In other words, D- push.
QB's- push to slight advantage Texans.
RB's- Texans
WR's- Push
Oline- Push

So it looks like the running game may be the difference in the game. And which D steps up bigger.

bossbfan
09-18-2004, 07:06 PM
Um. As a lion fan I have to say that our pass blocking is HORRIBLE, maybe one of the worst in the league. Our best D was Hall, and guess what? ah, suprise, he got hurt in the Chicago game to.

texasguy346
09-18-2004, 07:09 PM
Um. As a lion fan I have to say that our pass blocking is HORRIBLE, maybe one of the worst in the league. Our best D was Hall, and guess what? ah, suprise, he got hurt in the Chicago game to.

I believe Hall is supposed to play Sunday. I could be mistaken though.

HoustonLionsFan
09-18-2004, 07:15 PM
He broke his thumb, and will play with a special cast. I hope it is not a club, he has a hard enough time wrapping up on tackles as it is.

Boss, sorry, but if you think Hall was the best player on D, I don't think you have much credibility regarding the Oline. Shaun Rogers was far and away the best player on D last week. And if the Oline was so bad at pass blocking, why did Joey only get sacked once and had pleny of time to let the WR's get open?

DetroitLions
09-18-2004, 08:39 PM
I agree

I would also give Carr the slight advantage at QB

I wouldn't say the Lions LB's are razor thin either, Boss is the only one out. The 4-3 and 3-4 are difficult to compare. The DT's for the Lions are solid to very good. It is the DE's of the Lions that are questionable. In preseason they looked horrible, last week they played average. The LB's for the Lions are young, except Holmes who is old and slow. The inexperience of Lehman is the difference, but he hustles. If the DE's of the Lions play well I call it a push. If they don't, Texans all the way.

I also think, even with Bly out, the CB's are a push. The Texans have a rookie, and the Lions have their second string CB, who started his rookie year.

Both teams are weak at SS and have good FS's. Push.

In other words, D- push.
QB's- push to slight advantage Texans.
RB's- Texans
WR's- Push
Oline- Push

So it looks like the running game may be the difference in the game. And which D steps up bigger.
i dont see how you can give Carr an advantage, considering his TD:INT ratio is very similar to Joey's... O-Line, i also dont see how this can be a push, when the Lions O-Line has clearly been better... i will give you the WRs being a push (even with Rogers), because our 2 starters for the most part coming into this season were all potential, and had 5 games to their names combined. (Rogers - 5, Roy - 0)

HJam72
09-18-2004, 09:04 PM
Now the penalty was an armbar, and it seems to me that he was a victim of the NFL's crackdown on DB's making contact w/ WR's beyond 5 yards. I thought it should have been a 5 yard illeagal contact penalty, am I wrong? Last year the Patriots get praised for the same play against the Colts.



I thought Dunta got ripped on that call, because he would've batted the ball down whether he used the arm bar or not. OK, he did use the arm bar, but I'm saying that it didn't actually effect the play. He was in between the receiver and the ball (horizontally in between), and he batted the ball down with the other arm that he wasn't using to make the arm bar. It should have been a 5 yard penalty or a no call. Furthermore, the arm bar itself was not exactly a blatant act in the first place. So for half-way accidentally making arm contact with a receiver that he already had blocked out from the ball in the first place (the pass was underthrown some), he gets like a 40 something yard penalty. Yeah, that's real fair. I think the refs might have been picking on the rookie too. Oh, well. He'll learn not to do that.

Bye the way, the refs have been too hard on the CB's and making too many big penalty calls on them for many years now. I hate to see them get tougher. Too many plays are just bomb passes fishing for a penalty. Penalties should not be huge chunks of the field and be game breakers. The players should decide who wins the game. I say Carr needs to throw up more bombs, because some of them will land on yellow flags.

HoustonLionsFan
09-18-2004, 10:13 PM
i dont see how you can give Carr an advantage, considering his TD:INT ratio is very similar to Joey's... O-Line, i also dont see how this can be a push, when the Lions O-Line has clearly been better... i will give you the WRs being a push (even with Rogers), because our 2 starters for the most part coming into this season were all potential, and had 5 games to their names combined. (Rogers - 5, Roy - 0)

Carr gets a SLIGHT advantage because he has been more consistent and shows better leadership skills, IMO.

The Lions Oline has clearly been better at pass blocking, when was the last time the Olineman blocked well enough for a 100 yd. rusher. You also are referring to the line over the past couple years, but Texans signed Todd Wade, moved a tackle (Pitts I think) back to his natural guard position, and a young tackle (Seth Wand) has looked impressive in preseason. Call it a hunch, but I don't think this Oline will give up 76 sacks this year, and they will block for a 1200+ yd runner.

SDBoltz
09-18-2004, 10:22 PM
HOUSTON (0-1) @ DETROIT (1-0)
Heading in: A 2-0 start would give a young Lions team confidence, but the Texans were a few fumbles away from a win last week. It's the first ever David Carr-Joey Harrington matchup: we may find out who's closer to the playoffs.
Key for the Texans: Avoid turnovers. Domanick Davis fumbled twice last week, and pinball-style fumbles and interceptions made life easier for the Chargers. This is a potentially formidable offense, but it cannot overcome it's own mistakes.
Key for the Lions: Convert on third downs. Their 2-of-14 performance last week was good enough to hold off an offense like Chicago's, but the Texans will outgun you if they get that many opportunities. The Lions had some 3rd-and-4 and 3rd-and-6 situations where they couldn't convert: they have to get better in those situations to take the next step offensively.
Telling stat: The Lions actually ran the ball (30 times) more often than they threw it last week (26). That only happened three times last year, and the Lions won two of those games.
Scouting report: Texans OLBs Jason Babin and Kailee Wong didn't generate much pass rush against the Chargers, but Babin did distinguish himself with several open field tackles on LaDainian Tomlinson. Babin has good size and can shed blockers on run defense but lacks great pass rush moves at this point. As for Wong, he had a hustle sack but was usually seen wired to his blocker and was often picked up one-on-one by a fullback. Pressure from the ends is a key to the Texans defense; Wong and Babin must become more productive.
Forecast: They may be on the rise, but both teams are still weaklings right now. Take the home team unless you have a better idea. Lions by four.

powda
09-18-2004, 10:31 PM
i think the texans have a run blocking edge while the lions may have a pass blocking advantage. wrs---push. rbs---texans---secondary---probably a slight adavantage to the lions but not enough to make a diffrence.

and i have to give carr a slight advantage-------ur td vs int ratio sounds like someone whos only seen stats. hes better then his 2 int performance last week....1 of wich was a batted ball and the other was a throw while he had a lineman roll up his ankle.

i havent seen enough of harrington to give carr more then a mild edge but i consider him the better qb.

i look for our defense to be suspect again and our offense to have a good game.

29-17 texans

DetroitLions
09-19-2004, 12:35 AM
Carr gets a SLIGHT advantage because he has been more consistent and shows better leadership skills, IMO.

The Lions Oline has clearly been better at pass blocking, when was the last time the Olineman blocked well enough for a 100 yd. rusher. You also are referring to the line over the past couple years, but Texans signed Todd Wade, moved a tackle (Pitts I think) back to his natural guard position, and a young tackle (Seth Wand) has looked impressive in preseason. Call it a hunch, but I don't think this Oline will give up 76 sacks this year, and they will block for a 1200+ yd runner.
Its not just a line who makes a runner a 1200 yard RB... you need a RB too... and for theTexans bringing in Todd Wade, the Lions brought in Damien Woody... Is i just me, or would any sane person rather have Woody then Wade..?

TexansTrueFan
09-19-2004, 12:41 AM
Its not just a line who makes a runner a 1200 yard RB... you need a RB too... and for theTexans bringing in Todd Wade, the Lions brought in Damien Woody... Is i just me, or would any sane person rather have Woody then Wade..?

Hmm well as i recall Our one running back rushed for more yards than yalls 2 put together ! Obviously were doing something right !!! I'd rather have Wade.

texasguy346
09-19-2004, 12:50 AM
Its not just a line who makes a runner a 1200 yard RB... you need a RB too... and for theTexans bringing in Todd Wade, the Lions brought in Damien Woody... Is i just me, or would any sane person rather have Woody then Wade..?

DD ran for 1031 last year while starting 10 of the games. Not sure where the Lions RB is, and as far as the Woody/Wade debate goes it's not accurate since they both play different positions. Before you say "They're both OLinemen" you might want to notice the difference in size of the two. Each are better suited for the positions they play. We have Zach Weigert and Chester Pitts at guard. Wade is a talented young tackle, and he just makes our running game better while giving us better pass protection. Weigert has played very well for the Texans, and was a large part of DD's success last season. Pitts moved back inside from LT to LG(his more natural position), and has played very well thus far through the preseason and regular season. So you'd be better off making your argument concerning those two.

DetroitLions
09-19-2004, 12:53 AM
Hmm well as i recall Our one running back rushed for more yards than yalls 2 put together ! Obviously were doing something right !!! I'd rather have Wade.
You also played San Diego... name a good person in San Diegos front 7... give me the Bears front 7 over the Chargers front 7 any day...

texasguy346
09-19-2004, 01:03 AM
Donnie Edwards for one, and name me a very good starter on the Chicago front 7 that isn't a rookie, or coming off of an injury (Urlacher). Ogunleye perhaps? You do realize that the Lions didn't face the 85 Bears dont you?Add to that the Lions 3rd down conversions (2 of 14 or something like that?), and your running/passing game isn't a beacon of efficency either. I really don't see your argument for the Lions RBs. You have a talented rookie who is unproven, and had a 2.2 ypc average. The guy will be good eventually, but he won't be Barry Sanders right away. Weren't the Lions last in rushing last year as a team? Say what you will about DD or the Texan's OLine, but at least both are proven, and are only getting better.

DetroitLions
09-19-2004, 01:20 AM
Donnie Edwards for one, and name me a very good starter on the Chicago front 7 that isn't a rookie, or coming off of an injury (Urlacher). Ogunleye perhaps? You do realize that the Lions didn't face the 85 Bears dont you?Add to that the Lions 3rd down conversions (2 of 14 or something like that?), and your running/passing game isn't a beacon of efficency either. I really don't see your argument for the Lions RBs. You have a talented rookie who is unproven, and had a 2.2 ypc average. The guy will be good eventually, but he won't be Barry Sanders right away. Weren't the Lions last in rushing last year as a team? Say what you will about DD or the Texan's OLine, but at least both are proven, and are only getting better.
while we are excluding people. why dont you just say anyone inthe front 7 who isnt wearing blue and orange... the Bears front 7 is 10x better then the Chargers... yes, i agree D.D. is a proven NFL back, but what isnt proven about theLions O-Line...? RT-Stockar McDougle, a good tackle, still with ALOT of potential and upside... its just a shame the Lions probably wont be resigning him next year... RG-Damien Woody, a proven winner... C-Domonic Raiola, can play on the level of any center in the NFL, just not consistently... LG-David Loverne, a Journeyman, far exceeding expectations since hes been with the Lions... LT-Jeff Backus, a top 10 tackle last season, and still has room to get better. not to mention 3 of the 5 starters haveing been playing together for 3 years...

Ihategeeks
09-19-2004, 12:55 PM
Our Oline can not block, because they aren't asked too...

How often do we ever pull our gaurds?

NEVER

It's always an iso or offtackle, we never demand anything from our Oline in the forum of agressive blocking.


Then, THEN, we always try and run the ball, so if it's the playbook. CHANGE THE PLAYBOOK.

If it's the players, STOP ****ING RUNNING THE BALL TO SET UP THE PASS THIS IS THE WCO NOT *head explodes*

texasguy346
09-19-2004, 03:03 PM
while we are excluding people. why dont you just say anyone inthe front 7 who isnt wearing blue and orange... the Bears front 7 is 10x better then the Chargers... yes, i agree D.D. is a proven NFL back, but what isnt proven about theLions O-Line...? RT-Stockar McDougle, a good tackle, still with ALOT of potential and upside... its just a shame the Lions probably wont be resigning him next year... RG-Damien Woody, a proven winner... C-Domonic Raiola, can play on the level of any center in the NFL, just not consistently... LG-David Loverne, a Journeyman, far exceeding expectations since hes been with the Lions... LT-Jeff Backus, a top 10 tackle last season, and still has room to get better. not to mention 3 of the 5 starters haveing been playing together for 3 years...

I'm simply stating that the Chicago front 7 isn't the best or one of the best front 7's in the NFL. Green had 103 yards on him in the first half. They're talented, but they're also very young. They aren't the Chicago Bears of old.