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Texans86
09-06-2006, 09:57 PM
Bush will never go away, will he?

"2. Houston: The Texans were supposed to be a slam dunk to draft running back Reggie Bush, then backed off because they feared he might be tough to sign. Besides, they reasoned, they already had Domanick Davis as a running back. Whom did they need more -- a pass rusher like Mario Williams or another running back? Well, we just found out. First of all, the Texans' passing on Bush made no sense. He was the best player in the draft, and as the first team in line you take him and thank your lucky stars you had the chance. Houston didn't, and the Texans will pay for this mistake. In fact, they just did. Davis is out for the season with a bum knee, and now the Texans are looking to Wali Lundy and Ron Dayne for a running game. Are you kidding? No offense to Dayne or the Texans, but how would you like to count on a back discarded by two teams in little over a year? David Carr, get ready to throw. Oh, I almost forgot about cornerback Demarcus Faggins and Pro Bowl returner Jerome Mathis. The Texans probably did, too, but there's a reason: Mathis is out for the first few weeks of the season; Faggins could be out longer with a broken foot. "

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9640453

valleytexfan
09-06-2006, 10:03 PM
I was dreading this kind of stuff when the DD situation happened...

Lots of non-Texan fans tell me that we, Texan fans, are just falling for the "rationalization" with the Mario Williams pick. Other fans think we are brain-washed by FO. I, for one, wasn't. I didn't want VY or D'Brick, but I wasn't sure how RB would fit into the Texans' new system. Kubiak said he likes one-cut and go runners. I think Mario can be a super player, but was he taken too high? Time will tell. The question is, Was this the plan or did we fans get duped into thinking this was the Texans plan and they just screwed it up?
Either way, GO TEXANS!!!:redtowel:

flylikeaneagle
09-06-2006, 10:04 PM
Who cares what the media says? Screw them!

NFLforher
09-06-2006, 10:07 PM
We should have taken Bush.

Wolf
09-06-2006, 10:10 PM
no mention of Morency :hmmm:

Dime
09-06-2006, 10:19 PM
We should have taken Bush.

No.. we should have not.. go to someone elses MB.. We dont need you here.. We are just fine with the RB's we have now

texplayer2
09-06-2006, 10:24 PM
We will find out soon. I think if Mario has a season like Peppers or Kearse as a rookie the pick would be a good one for the first overall. Passing on Bush or even Vince was a mistake though. This team has fumbled around for four years and had some success and some failures. I have rooted for them the entire time, but come on, you can't make many mistakes at the pro llevel and expect to compete at the highest levels. Mario needs to perform on the field, not in a workout. :twocents:

Houston_Fanatic
09-06-2006, 10:24 PM
Isn't it kinda pointless to keep arguing the point? What's done cannot be undone. Only time will tell if it was a dumb move, smart move or a wash - and I am talking 2-3 years, not just this season.

Houston_Fanatic
09-06-2006, 10:27 PM
We had Earl Campbell and couldn't make it to the Super Bowl. It takes more than just one great RB to get there. Kubiak knows what it takes.

Samer
09-06-2006, 10:34 PM
Jump down my throat if you want but here is what I think...At the time of the draft we had DD and there was no way to predict that he would be too injured to be out for the season...we also were weak in the secondary and had no real pass rusher.

Draft Reggie Bush - Yeah he was the best player in the draft...amazing college player..he could be used as a running back, receiver or a kick returner. Do we really need another receiver now that we got Johnson/Moulds/Walter...DD was, at that time, going to be playing this year, and we have Mathis. Yes Mathis is out for the first few weeks...we will have to struggle with the kick returns until then. As for running, what we needed was a capable backup to help DD. All of a sudden, Bush would seem to be the perfect guy for us, we are in need of a stud RB..but I think Lundy will do well. And as I said before he was an amazing college player but that was college and this is the NFL. Same game but totally different levels of competition and everyone can assume he will do great in the NFL...but right now its all based on how he did in college. How many RB's came out of college, expecting to do wonders and turned up to be bust's. If Reggie Bush turns out to be as good as he is predicted to be...I wouldnt want to be playing defense against him that's for sure. I like Bush and Im not here trying to bash him at all and I do hope he doesnt turn out to be a bust. Bush should be capable of improving 3 positions for the Saints...RB/WR/KR...thats huge for them. He won't get the ball everytime but I am interested to see if defenses will commit 1 or more players just for him.

Draft Mario Williams - Yeah he was a great pass rushing DE, but again that was college and this is the NFL, huge difference. He is good against the run and can get the sacks. Predicted to get 10 or more sacks a year...but we will have to wait and see, now won't we. The Texans were in desperate need of a pass rusher and they felt that they needed that more than Bush...hence the reseaon of their pick. I wonder how many people are going to wonder why Williams isn't rushing the passer all the time and racking up a ton of sacks. Don't forget that every play doesn't require passing the rusher and you also got other things to look at...we got to look at whether teams are running towards him, if he is being double teamed and so forth. Also if Williams is as good as predicted, then he will improve other positions on the defense. When he rushes the passer, the QB will have less time to react and that increases the chances of turnovers being created by the secondary, and he could also help the dline because he will then require consistent double teaming, allowing other guys on the dline to capitalize on it. With Babin and Peek playing on the other side of the line...they could just wreck havoc on opposing QB's.

Now to conclude, the passing of Reggie Bush and the drafting of Mario Williams have both positive and negative results...lets just hope the drafting of Mario Williams have more positive than negative and that Lundy/Morency/Dayne can make a statement running the ball.

texplayer2
09-06-2006, 10:37 PM
We had Earl Campbell and couldn't make it to the Super Bowl. It takes more than just one great RB to get there. Kubiak knows what it takes.

I would say it takes more than a defensive end also. The runners we've had this year have done alright in the pre-season I hope it works out. If Earl were in the draft, do you think we would have passed on him?

Ibar_Harry
09-06-2006, 10:41 PM
Jump down my throat if you want but here is what I think...At the time of the draft we had DD and there was no way to predict that he would be too injured to be out for the season...we also were weak in the secondary and had no real pass rusher.

Draft Reggie Bush - Yeah he was the best player in the draft...amazing college player..he could be used as a running back, receiver or a kick returner. Do we really need another receiver now that we got Johnson/Moulds/Walter...DD was, at that time, going to be playing this year, and we have Mathis. Yes Mathis is out for the first few weeks...we will have to struggle with the kick returns until then. As for running, what we needed was a capable backup to help DD. All of a sudden, Bush would seem to be the perfect guy for us, we are in need of a stud RB..but I think Lundy will do well. And as I said before he was an amazing college player but that was college and this is the NFL. Same game but totally different levels of competition and everyone can assume he will do great in the NFL...but right now its all based on how he did in college. How many RB's came out of college, expecting to do wonders and turned up to be bust's. If Reggie Bush turns out to be as good as he is predicted to be...I wouldnt want to be playing defense against him that's for sure. I like Bush and Im not here trying to bash him at all and I do hope he doesnt turn out to be a bust. Bush should be capable of improving 3 positions for the Saints...RB/WR/KR...thats huge for them. He won't get the ball everytime but I am interested to see if defenses will commit 1 or more players just for him.

Draft Mario Williams - Yeah he was a great pass rushing DE, but again that was college and this is the NFL, huge difference. He is good against the run and can get the sacks. Predicted to get 10 or more sacks a year...but we will have to wait and see, now won't we. The Texans were in desperate need of a pass rusher and they felt that they needed that more than Bush...hence the reseaon of their pick. I wonder how many people are going to wonder why Williams isn't rushing the passer all the time and racking up a ton of sacks. Don't forget that every play doesn't require passing the rusher and you also got other things to look at...we got to look at whether teams are running towards him, if he is being double teamed and so forth. Also if Williams is as good as predicted, then he will improve other positions on the defense. When he rushes the passer, the QB will have less time to react and that increases the chances of turnovers being created by the secondary, and he could also help the dline because he will then require consistent double teaming, allowing other guys on the dline to capitalize on it. With Babin and Peek playing on the other side of the line...they could just wreck havoc on opposing QB's.

Now to conclude, the passing of Reggie Bush and the drafting of Mario Williams have both positive and negative results...lets just hope the drafting of Mario Williams have more positive than negative and that Lundy/Morency/Dayne can make a statement running the ball.

Why does everyone talk about Kick returners as being a big issue. They are not if you have a defense. If you hold the other team scoreless you are going to have 1 kick return per game. What I'm saying is it was more important for us to find a punt returner than it was a kick returner. Yes, its important, but generally not to the same degree as your punt returner.

My point is to talk about Bush as a kick returner really is not a valid issue for most teams. Punt returner is a big issue as there generally will be more punts than kickoffs in any given game. It looks like PBUC is going to do a good job, therefore I believe our special teams is actually stronger than it was last year. In other words we have solved a bigger problem than the loss of Mathis has created.

FILO_girl
09-06-2006, 10:42 PM
We should have taken Bush.

I disagree. But instead of diving down your throat and looking for your juglar, I will simply ask a fellow TEXANS fan...can you post why you think this?


It is getting quite frustrating getting taunted at every turn over RB. I trust that Kubes and McNair did the right thing, even with DD on the lame list. My Magic 8 Ball is on the fritz, but I think it would have told us to pass on RB too.

I hope Mario creams the heyll out of all the opposing QBs, the crawdaddin' from all the naysayers will be a sight to see. :crutch:

Houston_Fanatic
09-06-2006, 10:45 PM
If Earl were in the draft, do you think we would have passed on him?

Probably.

RTP2110
09-06-2006, 10:46 PM
We should have taken Bush.

Well, it's still to early to tell the players themselves. But it is odd that within the last week we have signed a castoff RB due to lack of depth and cut a starting d-lineman due to a logjam. I'd say we needed a Rb more than a DE.

Wolf
09-06-2006, 10:47 PM
Earl, yes... speed and power ..I can't imagine the Texans passing on that..

Texan Asylum
09-06-2006, 10:48 PM
I hope Mario creams the heyll out of all the opposing QBs... :crutch:

http://mud.mm-a8.yimg.com/image/2976484747
I like the way you talk...ummm hehhh

therealdon
09-06-2006, 10:58 PM
No.. we should have not.. go to someone elses MB.. We dont need you here.. We are just fine with the RB's we have now


Dude wake up. We got one with a bum knee on IR who people are saying may never come back, a starting rookie, a 2nd year player and a discarded RB. When we made Mario pick I wasn't too concerned because I love DD and think he is a great back. Now oh how I wish we hadn't passed on Bush. Get ready for a long season. I understand how people want to believe FO and believe in the team, I wasn't griping about pick til DD was placed on IR. He was huge part of what this team was going to be and now we're just wingin it. I hate to say it but I am not going to be happy with Mario if he doesn't get a sack and a couple tackles for loss on Sunday. I will be at every game I will cheer and never boo (except at officials). I believe that we have a chance to win every game. Is it probable that we have a winning season? You're dreaming if you think so. I do think we will win against Philly though, and starting the season with a win will give the guys much needed confidence and hopefully keep them playing above their level. I'm not hoping for bad things I just think that the team is in over their heads and everybody is going to have to be mistake free if we want to be in games. I can't wait til Sunday and I hope Carr can step up and show us he's what we all believed he could be.

therealdon
09-06-2006, 11:01 PM
oh and by winning season I mean more than 5 wins

blockhead83
09-06-2006, 11:13 PM
I keep seeing this sentiment reiterated in the media, and I keep thinking, "Did they stop paying attention to the Texans after they saw we passed on Reggie?" Honestly, do they not understand that Kubiak has been able to have a very successful running game in the past without drafting backs on the first day? They also obviously haven't been watching our backs this pre-season. Averaging 5.5 YPC against some 1st team D's isn't too shabby, eh? I keep hearing how we must be so sad now going into the season with 6th rounder Wali Lundy starting. I would have still drafted Mario regardless of whether I knew of DD's condition or not. You have to realize that you don't need a thoroughbred runner in this system, you need a workhorse back who makes a cut and runs downhill. Reggie should be a great back, but he wouldn't make a large difference in the productivity of our offense because we can get the job done with less physically gifted players. Mario on the other hand has the chance to develop into a first rate DE, one of the most sought after positions in the game.

Let's face it, most backs have 3-5 really productive seasons. Alot of DE's can stretch their careers out twice that long. We're getting much more bang for our buck with Mario, and the media will sing a different tune when they see that our pathetic young RB's are outproducing the messiah himself.

run-david-run
09-06-2006, 11:35 PM
I would say it takes more than a defensive end also. The runners we've had this year have done alright in the pre-season I hope it works out. If Earl were in the draft, do you think we would have passed on him?
You really cant compare one of the most physical, workhorse runners in the history of the NFL to Reggie Bush. One will literaly carry the team on his back, and that one isnt Reggie. Bottom line, Reggie does not give you enough to justify the first pick. I dont see how nobody in the media can see this when they acknowlege he isnt an eveydown back.
Hell, if LT wasnt worth the 1st pick 5 years ago, Reggie sure isnt worth the 1st pick.

infantrycak
09-06-2006, 11:51 PM
Why does everyone talk about Kick returners as being a big issue. They are not if you have a defense. If you hold the other team scoreless you are going to have 1 kick return per game. What I'm saying is it was more important for us to find a punt returner than it was a kick returner. Yes, its important, but generally not to the same degree as your punt returner.

Yeah if you hold the other team scoreless. Since that is a completely unrealistic way to look at it consider that the median team in the NFL last year kicked off 74 times and punted 78 times. They are darn close to equal on numbers and KR's garner more yards and TD opportunities (12 vs. 9 last year).

Vinny
09-06-2006, 11:57 PM
there you go again...injecting reality into football discussions. Don't we have rules about that?

mexican_texan
09-06-2006, 11:58 PM
We need ESPN's lord like Denver needed Clinton Portis. THERE IS A RUNNING BACK SYSTEM. Wali Lundy and Vernand Morency will no doubt get more rushing yards than Bush, but its his recieving skills and speed that get him on highlights.

Zac
09-07-2006, 12:02 AM
Teams are going to win Super Bowls without Bush. Elite running backs don't get to the big game without superior defenses giving them the offense the ball frequently.

ESPN and the most of the Sports Media world, with a few exceptions have said this is a monumental mistake. They keep equating this to the Bowie-Jordan example. But one thing they miss out that in Basket Ball one player is responsible for as much as 40% of the team offense. Plus he also played defense.

Let's see MJ would play 38 minutes out of a possible 48 minutes. He played offense and defense. He scored with his athleticism. He scored with his ability. He scored with his Baskeball Intelligence.

Uhmmm, Bush will probably run the ball 14 or 16 times. The life expectancy of productive Running backs in the league is about 8 seasons.

Defensive Ends play as many as ALL of the defensive plays. Including a lof of the Special teams.


I get it that Bush is talented, but to compare the Williams - Bush draft to the NBA's Jordan - Bowie draft is ludicrous. And someone pointed out the Bowies career was cut short by injuries, that was just bad luck.


Go Williams:ok:

Ibar_Harry
09-07-2006, 12:18 AM
Yeah if you hold the other team scoreless. Since that is a completely unrealistic way to look at it consider that the median team in the NFL last year kicked off 74 times and punted 78 times. They are darn close to equal on numbers and KR's garner more yards and TD opportunities (12 vs. 9 last year).

Based on our strengths this year I will stand by my statement. Still there were more punts than kicks and I suspect if you look at winning teams - which I hope we are this year - you will find they had to return a lot more punts than kickoffs. Winners are simply going to kickoff more than non-winners and its more one sided than you think. The loosers balance out the winners. As a result, this year the punt returner is more important than the kickoff returner.

I gues part of the difference is I'm thinking 13-3, I guess I should be stating a higher number, as I think 13-3 would probably mean I think we would make the playoffs. Now, if I was thinking 3-13, then I would think that a kick returner might be more important.

If you want to talk about the kicking game, then I would definitely say that our Punter and Field goal kickers are really not up to snuff. That is another part of the game that can yield field position and it is a weakness for us that I don't see being fixed this year. If they surprise me, so much the better. I have higher hopes than you do this year, Vinny.

Bobo
09-07-2006, 12:18 AM
Bush will never go away, will he?

"2. Houston: The Texans were supposed to be a slam dunk to draft running back Reggie Bush, then backed off because they feared he might be tough to sign. Besides, they reasoned, they already had Domanick Davis as a running back. Whom did they need more -- a pass rusher like Mario Williams or another running back? Well, we just found out. First of all, the Texans' passing on Bush made no sense. He was the best player in the draft, and as the first team in line you take him and thank your lucky stars you had the chance. Houston didn't, and the Texans will pay for this mistake. In fact, they just did. Davis is out for the season with a bum knee, and now the Texans are looking to Wali Lundy and Ron Dayne for a running game. Are you kidding? No offense to Dayne or the Texans, but how would you like to count on a back discarded by two teams in little over a year? David Carr, get ready to throw. Oh, I almost forgot about cornerback Demarcus Faggins and Pro Bowl returner Jerome Mathis. The Texans probably did, too, but there's a reason: Mathis is out for the first few weeks of the season; Faggins could be out longer with a broken foot. "

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9640453

I don't like Kubiak at all. I think he has made the Texans a team with no personality by making them Denver Lite. It takes more than winning to gain fans. If that's all it takes, then everybody would cheer for the Steelers this year. A team must have a personality of its own -- and that is sorely lacking on the Houston Broncos this year. However, that being the case, I would stand behind the choice of Mario Williams over Bush no matter what. Houston had a good running game, even before Kubiak came. With that good running game came a record of 2-14. To simply put another guy who MIGHT improve an already strong part of a very weak Houston team when they had -- and have -- so many other weaknesses would simply be ludicrous.

syberlan
09-07-2006, 12:23 AM
.......before the season starts. Even more geniuses with the Internet. Let's put this one to rest and rehash at midseason. Remember each prediction, because you won't be able to find them in two months. I don't believ either player should be judged too harshly this season. Both are coming into struggling organizations that haven't completly righted the ship. I notice six draft picks on the two-deep for the Texans. If they continue to hit on their draft picks they will turn things around in a couple of years. I think it is asking to much for Williams to be an all world stud this year without alot of help. The D is better, but not there yet. We bombed with the first coach and went down with the ship. We need to wait awhile for results. The expansion draft players are getting old and some of the Capers era draft picks have largely been a bust.

Wolf
09-07-2006, 12:27 AM
I thought stanley did a heck of a job..sure you look at the average and it is horrible. But I think Chad did what the coaching staff wanted. He only had one touchback, he put 29 balls inside the 20 and had 77 punts with only 33 returned (6.6yard average)

the downside is he averaged 38 yards a kick and a net of 36 yards

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4925

the last part looked horrible.. in preseason seems he is still getting good hangtime

infantrycak
09-07-2006, 12:27 AM
The expansion draft players are getting old

FYI--the Texans only have one expansion draft player on the roster--Seth Payne. You will see him this weekend tying up two guys and plugging the middle.

Wolf
09-07-2006, 12:29 AM
.......before the season starts. Even more geniuses with the Internet. Let's put this one to rest and rehash at midseason. Remember each prediction, because you won't be able to find them in two months. I don't believ either player should be judged too harshly this season. Both are coming into struggling organizations that haven't completly righted the ship. I notice six draft picks on the two-deep for the Texans. If they continue to hit on their draft picks they will turn things around in a couple of years. I think it is asking to much for Williams to be an all world stud this year without alot of help. The D is better, but not there yet. We bombed with the first coach and went down with the ship. We need to wait awhile for results. The expansion draft players are getting old and some of the Capers era draft picks have largely been a bust.

I think payne is the only expansion draft player left (off the top of my head)... and If it is a couple of years before we get good again, well that tells me we bombed this season and hello Brady Quinn...(I think we will be back to the 2004 season in terms of results even with the hard schedule) we should get atleast 6 wins

Texans Horror
09-07-2006, 12:29 AM
We need ESPN's lord like Denver needed Clinton Portis. THERE IS A RUNNING BACK SYSTEM. Wali Lundy and Vernand Morency will no doubt get more rushing yards than Bush, but its his recieving skills and speed that get him on highlights.


I think this was an important factor in the decision to take Williams. Denver's system opens big gaps and adds yards to a play. Denver ran well even with later draft picks pumping pistons for them. Reggie doesn't fit the system, but the system fits the Texans situation.

Wolf
09-07-2006, 12:29 AM
infantry, you beat me to the punch again

michaelm
09-07-2006, 12:40 AM
Why does everyone talk about Kick returners as being a big issue. They are not if you have a defense. If you hold the other team scoreless you are going to have 1 kick return per game. What I'm saying is it was more important for us to find a punt returner than it was a kick returner. Yes, its important, but generally not to the same degree as your punt returner.

My point is to talk about Bush as a kick returner really is not a valid issue for most teams. Punt returner is a big issue as there generally will be more punts than kickoffs in any given game. It looks like PBUC is going to do a good job, therefore I believe our special teams is actually stronger than it was last year. In other words we have solved a bigger problem than the loss of Mathis has created.


Too right... if we are returning so many kickoffs in a game that kick returner becomes a critical position, we have some serious defensive problems...

Ibar_Harry
09-07-2006, 12:44 AM
I thought stanley did a heck of a job..sure you look at the average and it is horrible. But I think Chad did what the coaching staff wanted. He only had one touchback, he put 29 balls inside the 20 and had 77 punts with only 33 returned (6.6yard average)

the downside is he averaged 38 yards a kick and a net of 36 yards

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?statsId=4925

the last part looked horrible.. in preseason seems he is still getting good hangtime

Yes, he has been an effective short range kicker, but if you are backed up and need to get out of trouble, he's generally not going to do that. This affects what you do deep in your own territory. A rush is very predictable, because even the slightest pressure is probably going to yield a shorter than normal kick. You can not gamble as much, because you must get yards for the kicker to have a comfort zone. You get more conservative in your play calling. I'm not disputing he is good at placing the kick if its within his range, but once again, he can not boom you out of trouble. Example would obviously be a guy like Ray Guy. The ability to punt the ball long and deep is an often overlooked weapon of the game.

Grid
09-07-2006, 01:12 AM
If you had to choose between Emmit Smith and Julius Peppers..who would it be? If you had to choose between Gale Sayers and Reggie White... Jim Brown and Lawrence Taylor... Blair Thomas and Andre Wadsworth.. Ki-Jana Carter and Steve Emtman..

this may not come as much of a surprise.. but no matter what ANYONE says, neither New Orleans, or Houston, knows what they have in thier first round pick yet. We could both have the greatest player ever to play the position.. or we could both have the next Ryan Leaf.

Bottom line.. we picked the player that we felt had the best chance of helping our team get over the hump. Anyone who talks about "MORE potential" in either prospect is fooling themself. Its a crap shoot either way.

The only thing you can knock the Texans for is drafting for need with the #1 pick, rather than drafting for "worth".. because the Bush pick was worth more. But this isnt basketball, and one player does not a team make. In the end, its going to be a question of which player helped thier team the most.. not which player had the most impressive stats..or which player got the most highlights on sportscenter.

So.. lets just let it rest folks.. when you see someone spewing thier ignorance and trying to pass it off as fact.. just ignore it, no one with half a brain believes that bunk anyway.

Divebomb
09-07-2006, 01:31 AM
Dude we had a good runnning back, we think we might maybe with a large ? MAYBE have a good QB. Our defense sucked and we needed DE that could fit the 4-3. Mario is 8 inches taller than Bush 6'7 to 5'11. Mario ran 4.5 to 4.6 Bush ran 4.3. Both had 40 inches in the ver. jump even though Mario out weighs Bush by 93 lbs, Bush 201 mario 294. Mario pressed 225 up 36 times. Bush did it what 25 times and people were in amazement. Mario had the largest wing span of any player in this years draft. What that converts to is that if mario had short arms like Bush, he would be throwing 225 up like 60 maybe 70 times. With all due respect, mario is 10 times the athlete Bush is, and as far as over all potential he was the #1 guy in the draft hands down.

StukNDallas
09-07-2006, 01:37 AM
Well said Grid.

It will take at least 3 seasons before we will know the true value of either player, so to make judgements before either of them have played a meaningful snap is just ridiculous. I know it has been said a million times and will be said a million more, but "Defense wins championships." Having a highlight reel running back may create excitement, but in my opinion putting pressure on the opposing QB is more important.

It may not have been the popluar move in the national media's eyes, but espescially after the hold-out I am happy that we passed on him.:twocents:

Bamaborn-Texasbred
09-07-2006, 01:44 AM
If you had to choose between Emmit Smith and Julius Peppers..who would it be? If you had to choose between Gale Sayers and Reggie White... Jim Brown and Lawrence Taylor... Blair Thomas and Andre Wadsworth.. Ki-Jana Carter and Steve Emtman..

this may not come as much of a surprise.. but no matter what ANYONE says, neither New Orleans, or Houston, knows what they have in thier first round pick yet. We could both have the greatest player ever to play the position.. or we could both have the next Ryan Leaf.

Bottom line.. we picked the player that we felt had the best chance of helping our team get over the hump. Anyone who talks about "MORE potential" in either prospect is fooling themself. Its a crap shoot either way.

The only thing you can knock the Texans for is drafting for need with the #1 pick, rather than drafting for "worth".. because the Bush pick was worth more. But this isnt basketball, and one player does not a team make. In the end, its going to be a question of which player helped thier team the most.. not which player had the most impressive stats..or which player got the most highlights on sportscenter.

So.. lets just let it rest folks.. when you see someone spewing thier ignorance and trying to pass it off as fact.. just ignore it, no one with half a brain believes that bunk anyway.

I am going to quote this reply twice.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
09-07-2006, 01:47 AM
If you had to choose between Emmit Smith and Julius Peppers..who would it be? If you had to choose between Gale Sayers and Reggie White... Jim Brown and Lawrence Taylor... Blair Thomas and Andre Wadsworth.. Ki-Jana Carter and Steve Emtman..

this may not come as much of a surprise.. but no matter what ANYONE says, neither New Orleans, or Houston, knows what they have in thier first round pick yet. We could both have the greatest player ever to play the position.. or we could both have the next Ryan Leaf.

Bottom line.. we picked the player that we felt had the best chance of helping our team get over the hump. Anyone who talks about "MORE potential" in either prospect is fooling themself. Its a crap shoot either way.

The only thing you can knock the Texans for is drafting for need with the #1 pick, rather than drafting for "worth".. because the Bush pick was worth more. But this isnt basketball, and one player does not a team make. In the end, its going to be a question of which player helped thier team the most.. not which player had the most impressive stats..or which player got the most highlights on sportscenter.

So.. lets just let it rest folks.. when you see someone spewing thier ignorance and trying to pass it off as fact.. just ignore it, no one with half a brain believes that bunk anyway.
Here it is for the second time. I love this guy. He said it all for me. You all need to shut up and watch a season of football before you call Reggie the next Gale Sayers or the next Ki-jana Carter, and you need to chill before you call Mario Williams the next Reggie White or the next A-Hole.

afcman
09-07-2006, 08:37 AM
I'm SO thankful we didn't get VY. I don't think he's gonna be the "next big thing". I would've LOVED to have gotten Cutler but......

Bush would have been good if for nothing else than as a distraction to defences. Until we start winning the media will keep knocking us. And maybe even after that. Especially ESPN.

TEXANRED
09-07-2006, 09:04 AM
I love the bad press. Just makes it even sweeter when eveything turns out in our favor.

Remember, the Rockets passed on Jordan as well. The press would be saying the same thing about Hakeem if he wouldn't have two championships.

BigDTexansFan
09-07-2006, 12:19 PM
We should have taken Bush.


OK genius, have you seen Reggie "OMFG" Bush's numbers for preaseason, they are LOWER than Vernand Morency and Wali Lundy,.

so you want an AVERAGE RB go buy a Aints jersey.

Taking Part-Time Bush with #1 pick will be seen as stupid in future, especially when he fails to live up to comparision to Gale Sayers/Barry Sanders. His numbers look more like Colonel Sanders

GO HOUSTON TEXANS :redtowel:

PhillyFan
09-07-2006, 12:44 PM
OK genius, have you seen Reggie "OMFG" Bush's numbers for preaseason, they are LOWER than Vernand Morency and Wali Lundy,.

so you want an AVERAGE RB go buy a Aints jersey.

Taking Part-Time Bush with #1 pick will be seen as stupid in future, especially when he fails to live up to comparision to Gale Sayers/Barry Sanders. His numbers look more like Colonel Sanders

GO HOUSTON TEXANS :redtowel:


Stats dont mean squat as far as talent and potential go.


preseason stats mean even less.


Football is a team sport.

thunderkyss
09-07-2006, 01:03 PM
The Texans were 2-14 in '05. Why??

Was it because we didn't have an offensive playmaker?? We had Andre.

Was it because we didn't have a rushing attack?? We were 15th in the league, with no passing game, and a 2nd rate zone blocking scheme. We now have the ZBS guru coming to implement his plan.


Was it because we didn't have a good Kick Returner?? WE did, and do.. we've got several good kick/punt returners on our team. & we've got the same coach that sent Mathis to the ProBowl.

So what part of our game was Reggie going to help?? Our Biggest problems last year were

1) No pressure on the QB
2) Couldn't stop the run
3) Keeping our QB upright(even with all the sacks, we scored enough points to win games)

In that order.

But with the #1 overall, shouldn't you take the best player available?? Absolutely. But the consensus best player screwed himself by taking shortcuts, and dealing with Gangsters.

It's not our fault Reggie isn't a Texan. He would most certainly have been a Texan if his family had been patient, and lived within their means for a little while longer.

El Tejano
09-07-2006, 01:58 PM
Who cares what the media says? Screw them!
And Philly fans know plenty about thinking your team screwed up in the draft only to find they knew what they were doing after all. Right FLAE?

CloakNNNdagger
09-07-2006, 03:33 PM
It's better to be the underdog........

2006 NFL FEARLESS FORECAST (http://www.gbnreport.com/NFLpreview.htm) [from Great Blue North Draft Report]


THE RACE TO THE BOTTOM: Odds on who gets the top pick at the 2007 draft....

1. Houston 7-1
2. San Francisco 10-1
3. Oakland 12-1
4. New Orleans 15-1
5. Buffalo 18-1
6. Green Bay 20-1
7. Tennessee 25-1
8. Detroit 35-1
9. New York Jets 40-1
10. St. Louis 50-1

LBC_Justin
09-07-2006, 03:56 PM
I would say it takes more than a defensive end also. The runners we've had this year have done alright in the pre-season I hope it works out. If Earl were in the draft, do you think we would have passed on him?
Earl Campbell is a totally different kind of runner.
Comparing Earl to Reggie is like comparing a Train to a Sports car.

Lendale White is more in the Earl Campbell mold.

But Earl Campbell like pretty much all the great running backs had about SIX years great play, then faded away. Sadly, the game of Football is more brutal on that position and that is one of several reasons, you don't plop down $50+ million on a running back.

Chance_C
09-07-2006, 04:04 PM
It's not our fault Reggie isn't a Texan. He would most certainly have been a Texan if his family had been patient, and lived within their means for a little while longer.

Are you being serious?

DocBar
09-07-2006, 04:12 PM
I keep seeing this sentiment reiterated in the media, and I keep thinking, "Did they stop paying attention to the Texans after they saw we passed on Reggie?" Honestly, do they not understand that Kubiak has been able to have a very successful running game in the past without drafting backs on the first day? They also obviously haven't been watching our backs this pre-season. Averaging 5.5 YPC against some 1st team D's isn't too shabby, eh? I keep hearing how we must be so sad now going into the season with 6th rounder Wali Lundy starting. I would have still drafted Mario regardless of whether I knew of DD's condition or not. You have to realize that you don't need a thoroughbred runner in this system, you need a workhorse back who makes a cut and runs downhill. Reggie should be a great back, but he wouldn't make a large difference in the productivity of our offense because we can get the job done with less physically gifted players. Mario on the other hand has the chance to develop into a first rate DE, one of the most sought after positions in the game.

Let's face it, most backs have 3-5 really productive seasons. Alot of DE's can stretch their careers out twice that long. We're getting much more bang for our buck with Mario, and the media will sing a different tune when they see that our pathetic young RB's are outproducing the messiah himself.
Wasn't SB MVP Terrell Davis a 6th round pick? And Detroit has Sanders for 10 yrs. and 1 ONEplayoff appearance. Maybe 2.

LBC_Justin
09-07-2006, 04:16 PM
Dude wake up. We got one with a bum knee on IR who people are saying may never come back, a starting rookie, a 2nd year player and a discarded RB. When we made Mario pick I wasn't too concerned because I love DD and think he is a great back. Now oh how I wish we hadn't passed on Bush. Get ready for a long season. I understand how people want to believe FO and believe in the team, I wasn't griping about pick til DD was placed on IR. He was huge part of what this team was going to be and now we're just wingin it. I hate to say it but I am not going to be happy with Mario if he doesn't get a sack and a couple tackles for loss on Sunday. I will be at every game I will cheer and never boo (except at officials). I believe that we have a chance to win every game. Is it probable that we have a winning season? You're dreaming if you think so. I do think we will win against Philly though, and starting the season with a win will give the guys much needed confidence and hopefully keep them playing above their level. I'm not hoping for bad things I just think that the team is in over their heads and everybody is going to have to be mistake free if we want to be in games. I can't wait til Sunday and I hope Carr can step up and show us he's what we all believed he could be.
Guess what we would have if drafted Reggie Bush.
One with a bum knee on IR who people are saying may never come back, a starting rookie(with a $50mil contract), a 2nd year player and a discarded RB and a D-line that is missing big time talent.

Bush is still a rookie. When they hand him the ball, his Heisman won't do anything for him. If it does have magic powers maybe Ron Dayne can whip his Heisman out.

Lundy is a rookie too. But guess what. He has scored a lot more touchdowns in College than Reggie Bush did.

Bottomline if you are going to refer to Lundy as "Just a Rookie" or a similar name remember Reggie Bush is no different. He is still totally unproven. Especially when you consider Lundy had a better preseason.

jerek
09-07-2006, 04:37 PM
I love how months later, of all of the stupid half-truths and outright lies surrounding Bush, we're still hearing the one about us passing on him was:

(a) a conspiracy theory orchestrated for the city of New Orleans, out of sympathy or whatever
(b) over signability concerns
(c) over character concerns
(d) Casserly "in control" and sabotaging his soon-to-be-former employer
(e) ALF

Drafting Mario was a football decision. Passing Reggie was a football decision. Period, point blank. Reggie's camp and the Texans had come to agreement over terms of the contract prior to the draft, and they drafted Mario any way.

Does McNair have to draft and sign a postcard to each of you before you get that? Face-to-face steak dinner? Yeesh.

thunderkyss
09-07-2006, 09:36 PM
Earl Campbell is a totally different kind of runner.
Comparing Earl to Reggie is like comparing a Train to a Sports car.

Lendale White is more in the Earl Campbell mold.

But Earl Campbell like pretty much all the great running backs had about SIX years great play, then faded away. Sadly, the game of Football is more brutal on that position and that is one of several reasons, you don't plop down $50+ million on a running back.

Unless you're NewOrleans, then you do it twice................. at the same time.

thunderkyss
09-07-2006, 09:45 PM
I love how months later, of all of the stupid half-truths and outright lies surrounding Bush, we're still hearing the one about us passing on him was:

(a) a conspiracy theory orchestrated for the city of New Orleans, out of sympathy or whatever
(b) over signability concerns
(c) over character concerns
(d) Casserly "in control" and sabotaging his soon-to-be-former employer
(e) ALF

Drafting Mario was a football decision. Passing Reggie was a football decision. Period, point blank. Reggie's camp and the Texans had come to agreement over terms of the contract prior to the draft, and they drafted Mario any way.

Does McNair have to draft and sign a postcard to each of you before you get that? Face-to-face steak dinner? Yeesh.

Nah..... since you said it, I'll believe it now.

But for future reference, anytime I say Reggie screwed himself, it's because I'm tired of all this, "Houston made the dumbest mistake" talk. So I'll put ball back in Reggie's court. He screwed up. He is not a Texans, because he screwed up.

Hey, you're preaching to the choir........ I've been saying from the get go, that Kubiak would never draft a RB with the #1 overall. Never..... did I believe it was a possibility.

Reggie can't even outrun a PepsiMachine for crying out loud.

Wolf
09-07-2006, 09:53 PM
It's better to be the underdog........

2006 NFL FEARLESS FORECAST (http://www.gbnreport.com/NFLpreview.htm) [from Great Blue North Draft Report]


THE RACE TO THE BOTTOM: Odds on who gets the top pick at the 2007 draft....

1. Houston 7-1
2. San Francisco 10-1
3. Oakland 12-1
4. New Orleans 15-1
5. Buffalo 18-1
6. Green Bay 20-1
7. Tennessee 25-1
8. Detroit 35-1
9. New York Jets 40-1
10. St. Louis 50-1


nice odds, I will love it when we prove them wrong.. and if not 1 of 2 things happen, if it is Carr's play..Brady Quinn here we come, if not hello trade down and get us some defenive help.

Adrian Peterson ...:drool: but figured we wouldn't go that route

The Pencil Neck
09-07-2006, 10:06 PM
I love how months later, of all of the stupid half-truths and outright lies surrounding Bush, we're still hearing the one about us passing on him was:

(a) a conspiracy theory orchestrated for the city of New Orleans, out of sympathy or whatever
(b) over signability concerns
(c) over character concerns
(d) Casserly "in control" and sabotaging his soon-to-be-former employer
(e) ALF

Drafting Mario was a football decision. Passing Reggie was a football decision. Period, point blank. Reggie's camp and the Texans had come to agreement over terms of the contract prior to the draft, and they drafted Mario any way.

Does McNair have to draft and sign a postcard to each of you before you get that? Face-to-face steak dinner? Yeesh.

I don't care what you say.

It was ALF, dammit.

The Pencil Neck
09-07-2006, 10:09 PM
nice odds, I will love it when we prove them wrong.. and if not 1 of 2 things happen, if it is Carr's play..Brady Quinn here we come, if not hello trade down and get us some defenive help.

Adrian Peterson ...:drool: but figured we wouldn't go that route

I think it's a bit too early to call next year the Brady Quinn sweepstakes. A year ago, it was supposed to be the Leinart sweepstakes and he fell to 10th.

Hell, 6 months ago it was supposed to be Bush or VY going first... :)

Wolf
09-07-2006, 10:13 PM
http://tom.mcallister.ws/2006/04/17/three-reasons-why-the-texans-should-not-draft-reggie-bush/

3 reasons not to draft reggie bush

quicksilver
09-08-2006, 12:20 AM
FYI--the Texans only have one expansion draft player on the roster--Seth Payne. You will see him this weekend tying up two guys and plugging the middle.

And with opponents also putting two blockers on Mario every play, we're gonna have a lotta sacks and tackles-for-loss from the rest of our D. :whip:

texan_fan_in_tampa_bay
09-09-2006, 07:06 PM
You're not going to outgun Indy, and history shows that superstar running backs aren't enough to win championships (read Michael Smith's article on why the Texans shouldn't draft Bush - archived story on espn.com). Mario was the right choice.

rafterticket
09-09-2006, 07:15 PM
Who cares what the media says? Screw them!

You've been in the south too long. You're starting to make sense.

Actually, some of the stuff you've posted this week hasn't been too bad, even though you're rooting for the wrong team.

I like Donovan McNabb. I think the Eagles might get back to business this year. I just hope the shop opens one week late.

dantem
09-10-2006, 12:18 AM
The sports media folks had invested a lot of time, money and reputation trying to make Bush into the next NFL superhero. When the Texans passed on him he got burried in new orleans the team that should have been last place in 2005. Now he will be hard profit from because he will not get as much playing time, his stats will be weaker. The Texans front office single handedly shut down the national media's B.S. machine. Now the best they can do is run stories about Bush singlehandedly raising the Katrina victoms out of thier dispair by bringing hope to the entire city... give me a break

Sorry, I had to post somthing, I couldn't hold back any longer... I'm better now

TexanFan4Life
09-10-2006, 12:48 AM
Well ladies and gentleman, it finally happened. I listened to enough of you wannabe General Mangers talk about what we woulda shoulda done. First, let's lay out some useful information as it relates to RB vs MW. A contract offer was on the table to both Bush and Mario well before the draft. Basically the same package. It was a very fair offer and it was first taker wins. Reggie passed because of greed. Don't believe it? Was he in Saint's camp on time? No! A holdout which wound up netting him basically the same offer we laid out plus or minus a couple million more in signing bonus. Not really important when he will make much more in endorsements over the next five years. So it wasn't the Texans fault Bush said NO! He was their first choice. As far as Mario, he may very well been drafted too high. Personally, I think so. That being said, I hope he turns out to be Julius Peppers. I would like nothing more than to see Payton Manning and Byron (Overrated) Leftwich with bloodshot eyes due to lack of sleep on Saturday nights for the next 7-10 years. For all of you who think you know more than a coach who has been in the game either coaching in Super Bowls or playing the QB position for most of his life, go get Madden 07 and pretend to be a GM there and you can make all the decisions you need to make yourself believe you know more than the professionals. Casserly and Capers excluded!! They had no track record of success. Capers was only an assistant on good teams and Casserly had Joe Gibbs and Bobby Bethard to thank for his success. How about we all get on the bandwagon tomorrow and be the supportive fanatic fan that is in all of us. Just be a supportive fan, not a kool aid drinker who believes we go to the playoffs this year. Realistically, we are probably two years from a serious playoff run and that is contingent on Carr finally getting over his post traumatic stress disorder of almost being killed the last four years. If he doesn't get straight, then bench him and his boyish looks. Me, I will let the coaches make that call. Best wishes to all and GOD, is it game time yet?

TexansFan4EvR
09-10-2006, 01:03 AM
Philadelphia at Houston: Not using the No. 1 pick in the draft on Reggie Bush is as smart as a 16-year-old kid turning down a date with Jenna Jameson two days after he got his drivers license. Texans 20, Eagles 13.

If this has already been posted ... feel free to merge Thanks.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5947950

:bananasplit: :bananasplit: :bananasplit:

sprtsfanatic
09-10-2006, 01:09 AM
hmmm....talk about an odd comparison....but like his pick....I just hope we can pull out the "w"

texplayer2
09-10-2006, 01:22 AM
Just be a supportive fan, not a kool aid drinker who believes we go to the playoffs this year. Realistically, we are probably two years from a serious playoff run and that is contingent on Carr finally getting over his post traumatic stress disorder of almost being killed the last four years.

The point I would like to make is that in Todays NFL you do not have the ability to build for 3-4 years down the road. You will never get there. Its like driving around in an old car and fixing everything as it falls off,because you don't want a car payment. Someone else makes the payments and is driving around in a new car. The old car ((MIGHT)) cost you less, but wouldn't you rather have the new one?

texplayer2
09-10-2006, 01:36 AM
I love how months later, of all of the stupid half-truths and outright lies surrounding Bush, we're still hearing the one about us passing on him was:

(a) a conspiracy theory orchestrated for the city of New Orleans, out of sympathy or whatever
(b) over signability concerns
(c) over character concerns
(d) Casserly "in control" and sabotaging his soon-to-be-former employer
(e) ALF

Drafting Mario was a football decision. Passing Reggie was a football decision. Period, point blank. Reggie's camp and the Texans had come to agreement over terms of the contract prior to the draft, and they drafted Mario any way.

Does McNair have to draft and sign a postcard to each of you before you get that? Face-to-face steak dinner? Yeesh.

Why would we want a postcard from Mcnair if it was a football decision? I think Casserly and Kubiak would be more appropriate dinner companions? Right? The fact is life is not like Madden. There are always issues that are not strictly football decisions.

Roughnecks
09-10-2006, 01:57 AM
Will someone show me where it said if you draft RB you are a sure thing to win a Super Bowl please. I have said it before RB might end up being the best back in the NFL but look at who he is compared to two backs from the bears GS and WP and that guy from the Lions BS these guys were the best but how many Super Bowls did they win what one. In fact WP didn't even score in the Super Bowl hell come to think about it how many did they even go to. We took MW and this guy has been booed and tore down in the media while RB is praised as the man and neither has taking a snap yet. Everybody wants to compare them by what they did this preseason the problem is when you look at what they have done they are the same, even, no TD no sack's but it is the media who is to blame why because they say MW will take 2 years shoot he didn't even have a sack this preseason. Bring up RB he is a star and the man for years to come and he didn't have any TD this preseason but it is only preseason on the other hand he did run for 44 yards that one game. What is done is done and leave it at that and do not worry about what they say on sportcenter or nfl live try watching Houston Sports Beat or Texans Huddle because those other guys will never give MW his dew or the FO if he turns into a beast. For all you RB and VY supporters drop it and wait till next year's draft to complain about how we let the next best thing go I for one are very proud how this team FO and all have turned it around.

pawpaw67
09-10-2006, 04:17 AM
We had Earl Campbell and couldn't make it to the Super Bowl. It takes more than just one great RB to get there. Kubiak knows what it takes.
If he knows, why do we have Carr?

wicked_wayz
09-10-2006, 06:23 AM
If he knows, why do we have Carr?

look at what kub did with plummer, if kub believ carr is the man for the job then so be it!!!!!......kub knows more about football then u ever will

SheTexan
09-10-2006, 07:01 AM
We had Earl Campbell and couldn't make it to the Super Bowl. It takes more than just one great RB to get there. Kubiak knows what it takes.

Very true!! RBush has yet to prove he's gonna be a great RB in the NFL anyway! IMHO, his name and Earl Campbells don't need to be mentioned in the same sentence when it comes to talking about GREAT RBs. Only a rare few EVER get to Earls calibur, and I have my doubts RB will be one of them.

RiotCommander
09-10-2006, 07:05 AM
Very true!! RBush has yet to prove he's gonna be a great RB in the NFL anyway! IMHO, his name and Earl Campbells don't need to be mentioned in the same sentence when it comes to talking about GREAT RBs. Only a rare few EVER get to Earls caliber, and I have my doubts RB will be one of them.


Well said, Earl is one of a kind.

CloakNNNdagger
09-10-2006, 10:53 AM
Very true!! RBush has yet to prove he's gonna be a great RB in the NFL anyway! IMHO, his name and Earl Campbells don't need to be mentioned in the same sentence when it comes to talking about GREAT RBs. Only a rare few EVER get to Earls calibur, and I have my doubts RB will be one of them.

Most of you probably won't remember a famous quote by Earl in response to how he felt about his awesome career accomplishments........."Somebody will always break your records. It is how you live that counts." Can you picture self-promoting RBush saying this?