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Wolf
09-06-2006, 05:45 PM
HOUSTON: In each of the past two seasons, quarterback David Carr has completed more than 60.0 percent of his passes. Entering his fifth season, Carr has started 16 games in three of the past four years. His 11 interceptions in 2005 accounted for the lowest total of his career. With 6,019 yards in the past two seasons, Carr is one of eight AFC quarterbacks to surpass 6,000 yards since 2004.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9640380

Now just help give us some W's
:challenge

Porky
09-06-2006, 05:57 PM
If I threw hitch patterns, and 3 yd dumpoffs, I bet I could be over 60%, and I didn't even play HS ball.

hollywood_texan
09-06-2006, 06:01 PM
6,000 yards over two seasons (32 games) is 188 yards a game.

Just a little prespective.

chuckm
09-06-2006, 06:04 PM
6,000 yards over two seasons (32 games) is 188 yards a game.

Just a little prespective.


So please list for us the men that have averaged 188 yards a game ....

RiotCommander
09-06-2006, 06:05 PM
Not to bag on Carr, but has he thrown a single pass to a WR going across the middle (this preseason)? Thats an honest question because I don't remember him doing it. I do seem to remember him checking down to Daniels a lot which is a great sign. A few years back B.Miller use to be a factor in games. Then that just completely vanished, I just hope he isn't going lean so much on his check-downs that he doesn't give the WRs a chance to get open.

run-david-run
09-06-2006, 06:05 PM
Which would out him on pace for about 3000 yards....and that was in the old offense. I expect, or at least hope, to see a lot more big plays, with the expected trade off of more incompletions and more picks.

Grid
09-06-2006, 06:08 PM
I support Carr.. but even his supporters have to admit that his accuracy is padded by the amount of dump offs that he does.

Double Barrel
09-06-2006, 06:13 PM
Just goes to show that stats are for fantasy football. The only stat that matters is scoreboard.

Big Ben with the Steelers had very low stats last year, but he's got a ring. With that said, I'd take him over Marino (Mr. Stat) any day of the week. Give me a championship over anything else, including HoF status.

HJam72
09-06-2006, 06:30 PM
Just goes to show that stats are for fantasy football. The only stat that matters is scoreboard.

Big Ben with the Steelers had very low stats last year, but he's got a ring. With that said, I'd take him over Marino (Mr. Stat) any day of the week. Give me a championship over anything else, including HoF status.

Well, yeah, I'd take that Steelers team with Roethlisburger over that Dolphins team with Marino any day, but Roethlisburger over Marino? As individual players? I've gotta disagree there. It's true that stats can be misleading and that Carr's completion percentage certainly is, with all the dump-offs (particularly to DD in the past), but players like Marino and Manning are well-worth having, IF you can still afford to put the right players around them. That requirement is especially true in the salary-cap era.

Having said that, Carr is certainly no Manning or Marino. He's got a long way to go to reach that kind of achievement and it's not likely that he'll ever be THAT good.

Wolf
09-06-2006, 06:31 PM
exactly DB.. footballoutsiders (server is down) one time had stats up about trips in redzone and what different QB's did with that.. Hasselback had one less or one more trip in redzone but his production inside there was a big difference than Carr' (of course having Alexander in your backfield makes a huge difference).

Bottom line for me, in the RZ, a QB has to make it happen

afcman
09-06-2006, 06:35 PM
It's all about the WIN. No wins? I don't care.

HJam72
09-06-2006, 06:35 PM
Bottom line for me, in the RZ, a QB has to make it happen

Interesting point. Usually, when I hear that sentence it is the RB, not the QB, but I guess both need to be successfull there.

infantrycak
09-06-2006, 06:48 PM
Not to bag on Carr, but has he thrown a single pass to a WR going across the middle (this preseason)?

Off the top of my head--complete to Moulds 10- 15 yd range against KC and incomplete (tipped by LB) to AJ about 30 yds in the KC game.

hollywood_texan
09-06-2006, 06:52 PM
So please list for us the men that have averaged 188 yards a game ....

I just meant as perspective, that's it.

Here are the number you asked for. I merely took all the yards for the top 30 QB by combining their 2004 and 2005 yards.

Here it is:

1 Trent Green 8605
2 Peyton Manning 8304
3 Brett Favre 7969
4 Tom Brady 7802
5 Jake Plummer 7455
6 Jake Delhomme 7307
7 Kerry Collins 7254
8 Matt Hasselbeck 6841
9 Drew Brees 6735
10 Carson Palmer 6733
11 Aaron Brooks 6692
12 Drew Bledsoe 6571
13 Donovan McNabb 6382
14 Marc Bulger 6261
15 David Carr 6019
16 Byron Leftwich 5064
17 Ben Roethlisberger 5006
18 Kurt Warner 4767
19 Michael Vick 4725
20 Daunte Culpepper 4717
21 Eli Manning 3762
22 Vinny Testaverde 3532
23 Steve McNair 3161
24 Mark Brunell 3050
25 Joey Harrington 3047
26 Gus Frerotte 2996
27 Chad Pennington 2673
28 Brian Griese 2632
29 Kyle Boller 2559
30 Josh McCown 2511

So take it for what it is worth. Carr is middle of the pack, assuming all of these quarterbacks played the same amount of games, which we know they didn't.

Oh, and chew on this, if having a 6,000 yard quarterback over two seasons is so important, why did the Texans go 2-14 last year?

Vinny
09-06-2006, 06:52 PM
Most of Carr's completions are hitch passes, dump passes, screens, come backers, and out patterns....all "safe" NFL passes. He struggles to find targets beyond the short linebacker zones and in the deep seam. Stats are for baseball...you have to actually watch football games to figure out if a QB is playing well.

chuckm
09-06-2006, 06:54 PM
Oh, and chew on this, if having a 6,000 yard quarterback over two seasons is so important, why did the Texans go 2-14 last year?

I should be asking you this question .....

hollywood_texan
09-06-2006, 06:56 PM
I should be asking you this question .....

I have no idea of where you are coming from...

Thanks for the little game.

chuckm
09-06-2006, 06:57 PM
I have no idea of where you are coming from...

Thanks for the little game.

my pleasure ....

hollywood_texan
09-06-2006, 06:57 PM
Most of Carr's completions are hitch passes, dump passes, screens, come backers, and out patterns....all "safe" NFL passes. He struggles to find targets beyond the short linebacker zones and in the deep seam. Stats are for baseball...you have to actually watch football games to figure out if a QB is playing well.

Very nice!

chuckm
09-06-2006, 06:58 PM
Very nice!


I'm a season ticket holder ..... therefore I've seen just about every pass, sack, dump-off, whatever over 4 years of pain

HoustonFan
09-06-2006, 07:00 PM
That's great and all, but I'm looking for us to get more Ws. Carr aside from getting sacked has not been all that horrible. I'm hoping that he does much better this season.

chuckm
09-06-2006, 07:00 PM
That's great and all, but I'm looking for us to get more Ws. Carr aside from getting sacked has not been all that horrible. I'm hoping that he does much better this season.


me too brother, me too

Hulk75
09-06-2006, 07:09 PM
If I threw hitch patterns, and 3 yd dumpoffs, I bet I could be over 60%, and I didn't even play HS ball.
So what your saying is you have no idea what your looking at. Never played before but you can tell us what is going down.:ok:

Vinny
09-06-2006, 07:37 PM
So what your saying is you have no idea what your looking at. Never played before but you can tell us what is going down.:ok:That makes no sense at all. You probably can't build a Lexus but I'm sure you can have an opinion about how well it rides. You don't have to be a Chef to know if you are eating a tasty meal either

vtech9
09-06-2006, 08:27 PM
Just goes to show that stats are for fantasy football. The only stat that matters is scoreboard.

Big Ben with the Steelers had very low stats last year, but he's got a ring. With that said, I'd take him over Marino (Mr. Stat) any day of the week. Give me a championship over anything else, including HoF status.
the difference is that Big Ben had a running game, and the 'Phins with Marino didn't. The 'Phins in that era had decent WR's and a HOF QB, but they couldn't seem to find a good RB (it didn't help that their O-Line wasn't that great either).

vtech9
09-06-2006, 08:30 PM
That makes no sense at all. You probably can't build a Lexus but I'm sure you can have an opinion about how well it rides. You don't have to be a Chef to know if you are eating a tasty meal either
wasn't it Chester Pitts or Seth Wand that didn't play high school football? I seem to recall that one of our players didn't play football until a friend of his got him to try out for his college team. Does anyone remember anything like that?

infantrycak
09-06-2006, 08:46 PM
wasn't it Chester Pitts or Seth Wand that didn't play high school football? I seem to recall that one of our players didn't play football until a friend of his got him to try out for his college team. Does anyone remember anything like that?

Pitts

Didn’t play football until he walked on at San Diego State… allowed just one sack in two seasons as Aztecs’ starting left tackle…started all 11 games at “quick” tackle in 2001…did not allow a sack while registering 108 knockdowns on 762 snaps…

From his bio.

Vinny
09-06-2006, 10:35 PM
yeah, Kyle Turley discovered Chester sacking groceries.

Texans guard Chester Pitts did not play high school football. He was working at a grocery store when Saints tackle Kyle Turley, then a starter at San Diego State, spotted him and suggested he try to walk on. Pitts started all 11 games as a senior, and was drafted 50th overall this year. http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20020810_HOU@NO

texan_fan_in_tampa_bay
09-08-2006, 02:45 PM
It's interesting to come here and see how people feel about David Carr. Someone even referred to him as a high school quarterback. That's crazy. Although some of the complaints are warranted, I guess, I think we should wait and see what he does this year before judging him any further. He hasn't exactly been in an environment conducive to success, after all. If he can't succeed under Kubiak, there's definitely a problem, but I really think you're going to see some great things from him over the next couple of years.

El Tejano
09-08-2006, 02:57 PM
Not to bag on Carr, but has he thrown a single pass to a WR going across the middle (this preseason)? Thats an honest question because I don't remember him doing it. I do seem to remember him checking down to Daniels a lot which is a great sign. A few years back B.Miller use to be a factor in games. Then that just completely vanished, I just hope he isn't going lean so much on his check-downs that he doesn't give the WRs a chance to get open.
He threw one to Andre Johnson that helped set up the FG we got on like a 30 second drive before the half against St. Louis.

Vinny
09-08-2006, 03:05 PM
He threw one to Andre Johnson that helped set up the FG we got on like a 30 second drive before the half against St. Louis.It was another underneath pass.

2-1-50 (:18) D.Carr pass short middle to A.Johnson to SL 39 for 11 yards (D.Coakley). http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20060819_HOU@STL

infantrycak
09-08-2006, 03:33 PM
It was another underneath pass.

2-1-50 (:18) D.Carr pass short middle to A.Johnson to SL 39 for 11 yards (D.Coakley). http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay/NFL_20060819_HOU@STL

There was also the throw deep to AJ over the middle that was tipped by the KC LB. I think everything else in the middle has been underneath.

Honoring Earl 34
09-08-2006, 03:46 PM
So any predictions for Carr on Sunday ? Maybe we can bet an avatar .

I say Carr is 14-23-130 .

Vinny
09-08-2006, 03:49 PM
There was also the throw deep to AJ over the middle that was tipped by the KC LB. I think everything else in the middle has been underneath.
forgot about that one. Hopefully we will see him challenge the deep seam a time or two Sunday.

El Tejano
09-08-2006, 03:52 PM
forgot about that one. Hopefully we will see him challenge the deep seam a time or two Sunday.
If I recall alot of those who went to TC saw David hooking up tons with AJ and Moulds on those deep seams that had crossing patterns.

Also the review they showed on ESPN last night showed that quite a bit too.

I don't think everything was unfolded in preseason. A good deal but maybe some of those things were not.

Vinny
09-08-2006, 03:55 PM
If I recall alot of those who went to TC saw David hooking up tons with AJ and Moulds on those deep seams that had crossing patterns.

Also the review they showed on ESPN last night showed that quite a bit too.

I don't think everything was unfolded in preseason. A good deal but maybe some of those things were not.Carr has lots of options with wr's, te's and backs at many depths of the field. It's up to him to find the deepest possible pass and make it happen. The other QB's seemed to find the wr's, but Carr struggled. I'm gonna cheer for him Sunday. We'll see how it works out.

infantrycak
09-08-2006, 03:55 PM
forgot about that one. Hopefully we will see him challenge the deep seam a time or two Sunday.

I don't recall them having the TE's challenge the mid to deep seam in pre-season but they were practising it in TC. I suspect or hope we will see some more variety than we have so far.

Honoring Earl 34
09-08-2006, 03:57 PM
If I recall alot of those who went to TC saw David hooking up tons with AJ and Moulds on those deep seams that had crossing patterns.

Also the review they showed on ESPN last night showed that quite a bit too.

I don't think everything was unfolded in preseason. A good deal but maybe some of those things were not.
I think that is the root of the problem ... Carr looks great until kickoff .

Porky
09-08-2006, 04:01 PM
So what your saying is you have no idea what your looking at. Never played before but you can tell us what is going down.:ok:

I've been watching football since well before David Carr was even a gleam in his Daddy's eye. I think I have learned a thing or two about good vs bad QB play in those years.

hadaad
09-08-2006, 04:07 PM
Carr has lots of options with wr's, te's and backs at many depths of the field. It's up to him to find the deepest possible pass and make it happen. The other QB's seemed to find the wr's, but Carr struggled. I'm gonna cheer for him Sunday. We'll see how it works out.

I'm glad to hear that you will cheer for him Sunday. That's more than I have heard from a lot of people who disagree with the idea of Carr as our starting quarterback.

I'm excited to see what Carr, Moulds and Johnson can do against a strong Philly secondary.

Battle Red Flash
09-08-2006, 04:25 PM
I support Carr.. but even his supporters have to admit that his accuracy is padded by the amount of dump offs that he does.


...and he had THE worst protection over the last four years.

thunderkyss
09-08-2006, 04:49 PM
If I threw hitch patterns, and 3 yd dumpoffs, I bet I could be over 60%, and I didn't even play HS ball.

you know, that really don't matter. If the defense is going to keep giving us those hitches, we'll be all right.......... all the way to the endzone.

If our D will get us a couple of stops, and we stop nursing 3 point leads the entire 4th Qtr, we'll win a bunch of games.

thunderkyss
09-08-2006, 04:53 PM
Just goes to show that stats are for fantasy football. The only stat that matters is scoreboard.

Big Ben with the Steelers had very low stats last year, but he's got a ring. With that said, I'd take him over Marino (Mr. Stat) any day of the week. Give me a championship over anything else, including HoF status.
Give Miami Pittsburgh's D, and marino would've ran out of fingers for rings.....

Well, yeah, I'd take that Steelers team with Roethlisburger over that Dolphins team with Marino any day, but Roethlisburger over Marino? As individual players? I've gotta disagree there. It's true that stats can be misleading and that Carr's completion percentage certainly is, with all the dump-offs (particularly to DD in the past), but players like Marino and Manning are well-worth having, IF you can still afford to put the right players around them. That requirement is especially true in the salary-cap era.

Having said that, Carr is certainly no Manning or Marino. He's got a long way to go to reach that kind of achievement and it's not likely that he'll ever be THAT good.

Even still, I bet the Colts spend more money on Defense, not counting Peyton's salary........ I bet it's more about continuing to teach and coach at the proLevel. than paying people to play for your team.......... Look at Washington.

TexanFanInCC
09-08-2006, 04:57 PM
I just meant as perspective, that's it.

Here are the number you asked for. I merely took all the yards for the top 30 QB by combining their 2004 and 2005 yards.

Here it is:

1 Trent Green 8605
2 Peyton Manning 8304
3 Brett Favre 7969
4 Tom Brady 7802
5 Jake Plummer 7455
6 Jake Delhomme 7307
7 Kerry Collins 7254
8 Matt Hasselbeck 6841
9 Drew Brees 6735
10 Carson Palmer 6733
11 Aaron Brooks 6692
12 Drew Bledsoe 6571
13 Donovan McNabb 6382
14 Marc Bulger 6261
15 David Carr 6019
16 Byron Leftwich 5064
17 Ben Roethlisberger 5006
18 Kurt Warner 4767
19 Michael Vick 4725
20 Daunte Culpepper 4717
21 Eli Manning 3762
22 Vinny Testaverde 3532
23 Steve McNair 3161
24 Mark Brunell 3050
25 Joey Harrington 3047
26 Gus Frerotte 2996
27 Chad Pennington 2673
28 Brian Griese 2632
29 Kyle Boller 2559
30 Josh McCown 2511

So take it for what it is worth. Carr is middle of the pack, assuming all of these quarterbacks played the same amount of games, which we know they didn't.

Oh, and chew on this, if having a 6,000 yard quarterback over two seasons is so important, why did the Texans go 2-14 last year?

carr is in the middle of the list, but among the worst among FULL TIME starting QBs since 2004.

The Pencil Neck
09-08-2006, 09:28 PM
Not to bag on Carr, but has he thrown a single pass to a WR going across the middle (this preseason)? Thats an honest question because I don't remember him doing it. I do seem to remember him checking down to Daniels a lot which is a great sign. A few years back B.Miller use to be a factor in games. Then that just completely vanished, I just hope he isn't going lean so much on his check-downs that he doesn't give the WRs a chance to get open.

Yes. First preseason game he threw a nice one over the middle to AJ but the linebacker made a helluva play and knocked it away. It would have been a long TD if it hadn't been for that linebacker.

Texans86
09-08-2006, 10:02 PM
"In a bid to add much-needed variety to his daily posture, Houston Texans quarterback David Carr announces that he will sleep standing up."

From "Scary Storylines..." on MSN's fox sports page. I thought it was pretty funnny.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5937548