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Wolf
09-06-2006, 02:42 PM
going by this and not sure how up to date this is
http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/PHI
http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/HOU
just to keep it simple

we got.

AJ/moulds/Lundi/Daniels versus sheppard/brown/Lewis/Dawkins

Eagles side.
Stallworth/Brown/Westbrook/smith versus D-rob/sanders/Earl/Brown

Corrosion
09-06-2006, 02:47 PM
going by this and not sure how up to date this is
http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/PHI
http://www.nfl.com/teams/depthcharts/HOU
just to keep it simple

we got.

AJ/moulds/Lundi/Bruener (haven't heard who is actually starting at TE) versus sheppard/brown/Lewis/Dawkins

Eagles side.
Stallworth/Brown/Westbrook/smith versus D-rob/sanders/Earl/Brown


Owen Daniels is listed as the starter at TE .... Although I expect Bruener and Putzier to see a lot of time as well , depending on the situation.

http://www.houstontexans.com/team/depth_chart.php?section=TH%20Depth%20Chart

Wolf
09-06-2006, 02:52 PM
Thanks, I edited the post :D

Jerome_Brown_99
09-06-2006, 03:44 PM
Eagles win both matchups.

HOU-TEX
09-06-2006, 03:46 PM
You forgot the QBs. I think they're just as, if not more important than the names given.:confused:

Wolf
09-06-2006, 03:47 PM
You forgot the QBs. I think they're just as, if not more important than the names given.:confused:

I thought about that, but figured it would end up a Qb debate when IMO it would be all McNabb

HOU-TEX
09-06-2006, 03:49 PM
I thought about that, but figured it would end up a Qb debate when IMO it would be all McNabb

Oh crapola! Sorry! Delete it if necessary. I don't want another one of those. My bad.:yikes:

Farough
09-06-2006, 05:12 PM
I think that on both sides of the ball that Philly would have a slight advantage. Just looking at their team they are more well rounded then the Texans are. I'm also factoring in the experience that they have compared to our squad this year.

Jerome_Brown_99
09-06-2006, 05:32 PM
I think that on both sides of the ball that Philly would have a slight advantage. Just looking at their team they are more well rounded then the Texans are. I'm also factoring in the experience that they have compared to our squad this year.

Thanks for being objective.

Jerome_Brown_99
09-06-2006, 05:34 PM
I thought about that, but figured it would end up a Qb debate when IMO it would be all McNabb

Yeah - you wouldn't want to factor in a clear advantage for the Eagles, would you? :chicken:

Wolf
09-06-2006, 05:37 PM
not just that, it is more about can our receivers get open against the eagles defense and vice versa

just wanted to get that to be the focus of the poll not the QB's(which it would)

TexansLucky13
09-06-2006, 05:44 PM
IMHO, both teams have the advantage on offense. We both have proven Receivers. I would rate the CBs evenly.

Lucky
09-06-2006, 05:48 PM
The TO-less Eagles averaged 16 points/game last season. Westbrook went over 100 yards rushing once (against Green Bay) and the Eagles averaged less than 90 yards/game on the ground. Sure, a healthy McNabb will help. Still, this is one of the worst offenses the Texans will play all season. Expect a tight, low scoring game. And as bad as Kris Brown was last season (76.5% FGA), the Eagles' David Akers was even worse (72.7%).

E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles
09-06-2006, 05:53 PM
The TO-less Eagles averaged 16 points/game last season. Westbrook went over 100 yards rushing once (against Green Bay) and the Eagles averaged less than 90 yards/game on the ground. Sure, a healthy McNabb will help. Still, this is one of the worst offenses the Texans will play all season. Expect a tight, low scoring game. And as bad as Kris Brown was last season (76.5% FGA), the Eagles' David Akers was even worse (72.7%).

David Akers also played with a torn hamstring...Westbrook was out half the season and Reid only ran the ball about 30-40% of the time which will never lead to 100 yard games i dont care who your back is...half of the Eagles starters (offense and defense) were on IR. I'm not saying we'll dominate but I think we will do better than you give us credit for, as I'm sure Houston will as far as Eagles fans go. We don't really see Houston play at all aside from the highlights so it is hard to comment. This game WILL be won in the trenches. Whoever's lines dominate the other teams lines will win.

Lucky
09-06-2006, 08:03 PM
David Akers also played with a torn hamstring...Westbrook was out half the season and Reid only ran the ball about 30-40% of the time which will never lead to 100 yard games i dont care who your back is...
Akers has made all of his preseason kicks. And Brown has not. That probably gives Eagle fans some hope, while Texan fans remain uneasy.

Westbrook played in 12 games, that's his M.O. Is he completly healthy coming into the opener (he hasn't played since the HOF game)? And isn't the reason Reid doesn't run the ball is because they're not good at it? The Eagles have made an effort to run the ball this preseason and it just hasn't worked out. 3.1 yards per carry won't cut it in the regular season. If they can't find a running game on Sunday, even our lowly Texans will get to the QB.

I respect the heck out of the Eagles defense. But, their achilles heel has been against zone blocking teams. Remember what the Broncos did to the Eagle defense at Mile High last season? That was a Philly defense at full strength, too. I'd be a little concerned as an Eagle fan that Kubiak might have another good game plan for Jim Johnson's defense.

aj.
09-06-2006, 08:11 PM
this is one of the worst offenses the Texans will play all season.

As long as your throwing stats around, the Eagles offense was top 10 in the NFL in '02 and '04 in yards gained and points scored with a lot of the same players.


....and with a quick look at the schedule can you really say that the Eagles offense is going to be markedly worse than Tennessee (twice), Jacksonville (twice), Washington, Bullalo, the Jets, Oakland, Cleveland, or Dallas?

TexanSam
09-06-2006, 08:12 PM
I gave the advantage to the Eagles on both sides. The Eagles have a very good defense, and until the Texans offense proves to be able to pick apart the defense, I give the advantage to the Eagles. I also give the Eagles advantage when they have the ball. Yes, our defense is improved, but just because the Eagles don't have any name players besides McNabb and to a lesser extent Brian Westbrook doesn't mean they can't move the ball. Our defense was ranked dead last last season and they also have to prove they can stop teams.

Lucky
09-06-2006, 08:13 PM
As long as your throwing stats around, the Eagles offense was top 10 in the NFL in '02 and '04 in yards gained and points scored with a lot of the same players.
I bet guys like McNabb, Runyan, & Tra Thomas would love to jump back into their '02 bodies.

Vinny
09-06-2006, 08:16 PM
At least Lucky is still a homer....we got that going for us.

Lucky
09-06-2006, 08:21 PM
At least Lucky is still a homer....we got that going for us.
Yeah, it's pretty sad when I have to not only fight off fans of a 6-10 team, but our own vets.

chuckm
09-06-2006, 08:21 PM
Yeah, it's pretty sad when I have to not only fight off fans of a 6-10 team, but our own vets.



not all .....

Vinny
09-06-2006, 08:21 PM
Yeah, it's pretty sad when I have to not only fight off fans of a 6-10 team, but our own vets.lol...I'm a bigger NFL fan than a Texan fan...but I do love my Texans.

Teams will target your weakness. Westbrook and LJ Smith on Orr/CC Brown is a colossal mismatch, and it's not in our favor. The Eagles are going to destroy our defensive left side with their dominant lineman on the right side (Andrews and Runyan - I bet he can still play).

Lucky
09-06-2006, 08:36 PM
Westbrook and LJ Smith on Orr/CC Brown is a colossal mismatch, and it's not in our favor. The Eagles are going to destroy our defensive left side with their dominant lineman on the right side (Andrews and Runyan - I bet he can still play).
Destroy in what way? The Eagles stink as a run blocking unit. They can't just run to the right side, or the defense will overload. Vic Fangio is gone, it's OK to make defensive adjustments, now.

Westbrook will give any team fits. First thing I'd like to know is, is he healthy? Second would be, is he going to carry the load at RB? Because he won't be able to handle 25 touches. Never has and never will. LJ Smith? He's an OK TE, but he's not going to beat a team. I understand that Philly is on TV a lot, and fans recognize their names. But the facts indicate that the Eagle offense isn't very good right now.

aj.
09-06-2006, 08:48 PM
Yeah, it's pretty sad when I have to not only fight off fans of a 6-10 team, but our own vets.

Make a statement like the Eagles are going to be one of the worst offenses we face this year and I would hope there's disagreement from Texans fans. If not, then all we are is a bunch of homers. With McMahon starting nearly half of their games last year they still were still able to finish ahead of at least a dozen NFL offenses in total yards.

Lucky
09-06-2006, 08:59 PM
Make a statement like the Eagles are going to be one of the worst offenses we face this year and I would hope there's disagreement from Texans fans.
If not the Eagles, then who? The Texans will face all of the NFC East teams, and everyone of them has a better offense than Philly does. Later in the year, the Texans will get the Bills, Jets, & Browns. But this is as good as it gets for a very long time.

Two aging tackles, a QB who's lost some mobility, and a RB that's injury prone and asked to do too much? That's what the Eagles have left from '02. It's funny, when the Texans retool their offense, experts claim it will take time to gel (rightly so). When a team like the Eagles are forced to do the same, the rebuilding is discounted. Hey, it's the Eagles, they'll get it done.

aj.
09-06-2006, 09:15 PM
I mentioned the teams earlier.

Just had a problem characterizing their offensive attack as "one of the worst" we will face this year, but you can believe whatever you want to believe.

Texans_Chick
09-06-2006, 09:32 PM
Generally, even if you have two teams that have relatively equal players and coaches, the team that is more used to a system will most always win.

That being said, I do not understand my Texans any more. The team I saw in the preseason looks very unlike the old Texans.

If the Texans keep their cool and run their system on offense, and keep the lid on the score on defense, nothing would surprise me on Sunday. Lots of rookies for that to happen (and an emotional Carr and TJ and Peek), but at least for the first game, I do not want to go in just expecting the worst.

Just as a fun stat, Denver put up 564 yards on the Eagles last year. Even with the Eagles being way hurt, that is a lot of yards. Not going to say that the Texans can do that, but you never know what can happen when the other side has already given themselves a W.

E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles
09-06-2006, 09:43 PM
Destroy in what way? The Eagles stink as a run blocking unit. They can't just run to the right side, or the defense will overload. Vic Fangio is gone, it's OK to make defensive adjustments, now.

Westbrook will give any team fits. First thing I'd like to know is, is he healthy? Second would be, is he going to carry the load at RB? Because he won't be able to handle 25 touches. Never has and never will. LJ Smith? He's an OK TE, but he's not going to beat a team. I understand that Philly is on TV a lot, and fans recognize their names. But the facts indicate that the Eagle offense isn't very good right now.

Westbrook had a mild sprain in the first preseason game against Oakland. After that he could have played but Reid already knew what he could do so he rested him. We had several more backs to look at to see who would make the team. As for being able to handle 25 touches, I agree. He wont be getting 25 touches per game but he will be getting probably 15 while splitting carries with Buckhalter. You'll see more of Westbrook on screens which he is one of the best screen backs in the entire league (Reid basically considers screens running plays as far as game planning goes which is why there has been a lopsided run/pass ratio) and the Eagles are one of the best teams at setting up the RB screen. LJ Smith as an OK TE?? He had 61 Catches for 682 Yards and 3 TDs...those are about the same numbers that your #1 receiver put up last year (beit that Johnson played 3 less games), but there is no way that an "OK TE" should put up numbers even close to a pretty good WR does. You don't really have any support that the Eagles offense just "isn't very good right now".

E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles
09-06-2006, 09:48 PM
If not the Eagles, then who? The Texans will face all of the NFC East teams, and everyone of them has a better offense than Philly does. Later in the year, the Texans will get the Bills, Jets, & Browns. But this is as good as it gets for a very long time.

Two aging tackles, a QB who's lost some mobility, and a RB that's injury prone and asked to do too much? That's what the Eagles have left from '02. It's funny, when the Texans retool their offense, experts claim it will take time to gel (rightly so). When a team like the Eagles are forced to do the same, the rebuilding is discounted. Hey, it's the Eagles, they'll get it done.

The QB hasn't lost mobility...he's just become more of a pocket passer. He was injured last year and didn't run as much. That doesn't mean he's lost mobility. He'll be able to get out and run when he needs to, the key is when he NEEDS to. He started out like a Michael Vick who thought run first and pass later but he's matured a lot over the last several years and developed into a pocket passer. As for Eagles "retooling their offense", what retooling is there? It is still the same system with pretty much the same players that have been there all along with an exception of Stallworth. I'm lost when you say they are "rebuilding".

infantrycak
09-06-2006, 09:49 PM
Billy Miller put up 613 yds the Texans' 1st season. Billy is out of the league now. Sometimes it is more scheme than talent driven as to who gets the ball. LJ is much better than that but numbers in comparison to a gimpy WR on a crippled O don't really make the case.

Lucky
09-06-2006, 09:58 PM
I mentioned the teams earlier.

Just had a problem characterizing their offensive attack as "one of the worst" we will face this year, but you can believe whatever you want to believe.
Didn't see your edited post until now. I will concede that the Titans will be among the bottom of the barrel. Skins should eventually be decent under Saunders (if Portis is healthy). Dallas is currently dancing with the devil so the Pokes offense may be strong when the Texans come to town. Ask Eagle fans how that works out in the long run. At least Jacksonville and Oakland have running games. Dominant offenses, no. Better than Philly's, yes.

What am I missing? A mixed bag of untested youngsters and vets with worn tread on the offensive line. No #1 WR. No complimentary back to team with Westbrook. At some point during the season, maybe Reid pulls this bunch together. Now is the time to face them.

Just as a fun stat, Denver put up 564 yards on the Eagles last year. Even with the Eagles being way hurt, that is a lot of yards.

The Eagles' D was completely healthy going into that contest. The Broncos did rough them up a bit during the game.

E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles
09-06-2006, 10:00 PM
Billy Miller put up 613 yds the Texans' 1st season. Billy is out of the league now. Sometimes it is more scheme than talent driven as to who gets the ball. LJ is much better than that but numbers in comparison to a gimpy WR on a crippled O don't really make the case.

How about the fact that he ranked 8th in the NFL amongst TE's last year?

Lucky
09-06-2006, 10:09 PM
How about the fact that he ranked 8th in the NFL amongst TE's last year?
Smith's a good TE. But he's not going to dominate anybody. Not like a Gates, anyway. I don't see this huge matchup issue with him. He'll get his 4 or 5 catches for 50 or 60 yards. So?

Jerome_Brown_99
09-07-2006, 01:05 AM
IMHO, both teams have the advantage on offense. We both have proven Receivers. I would rate the CBs evenly.

I'm sorry, but other then Robinson, the Texans CBs are terrible.

The Eagles have the bet trio of CBs in the NFL with Brown, Sheppard, and Hood.

The CB edge is so heavily in favor of the Eagles it isn't even funny.

Jerome_Brown_99
09-07-2006, 01:10 AM
Yeah, it's pretty sad when I have to not only fight off fans of a 6-10 team, but our own vets.

Or you could just be objective and understand that the Eagles are the more talented, more established team.

Thus, most rational people will think the Eagles have the edge.

05 was our worst season since AR became the head coach, we had 6 pro-bowlers on IR, half of our starters out for the season, even some of our 2nd team guys were injured, and we STILL had 3 times the wins.

Jerome_Brown_99
09-07-2006, 01:12 AM
Smith's a good TE. But he's not going to dominate anybody. Not like a Gates, anyway. I don't see this huge matchup issue with him. He'll get his 4 or 5 catches for 50 or 60 yards. So?

Keep in mind that LJ was leading the whole NFL in catches and yards untill McNab went out for the year.

Yes, more catches and yards then Gates, Gonzo, Shockey, and anyone else you can think of.

He's not at the level o those guys yet, but he certainly is one of the best TEs in the NFL.

infantrycak
09-07-2006, 01:17 AM
Or you could just be objective and understand that the Eagles are the more talented, more established team.

Thus, most rational people will think the Eagles have the edge.

Yes the Eagles do have the edge and should be the favorites. Having said that, the last coaching staff was not getting the most out of the talent they had and the new coaching staff appears to be much better. That really cannot always be said. Martz being replaced in St. Louis. Edwards being replaced in NY or Vermeil being replace by Edwards, etc. Like I said the Eagles should be favored and there are some likely mismatches for the Eagles while on the Texans' side there are predicted but unproven improvements. Game day comes sunday--should be a good test for both teams to prove how far they have come from last season.

Lucky
09-07-2006, 04:07 PM
Keep in mind that LJ was leading the whole NFL in catches and yards untill McNab went out for the year.

Yes, more catches and yards then Gates, Gonzo, Shockey, and anyone else you can think of.
McNabb (with 2 'b's) played thru 11/14 last season. Receiving stats as of 11/14:

LJ - 40 catches - 417 yards
Gates - 43 catches - 707 yards
Gonzo - 45 catches - 457 yards
Shockey - 38 catches - 585 yards

Others I can think of:
Heap - 42 catches - 461 yards
Cooley - 41 catches - 469 yards
Kinney - 44 catches - 486 yards

Maybe they don't check facts back in Philly. Maybe you can't get enough fingers and toes in one room to count that high. Who knows? Here, in the land of no-pass/no-play, someone will check your facts.

As I said before, Smith is a good TE. But, he's not a guy who will dominate. Not on the Gates level, but certainly on the Kinney level. And yeah, LJ's numbers went down after McNabb went out. But LJ's numbers also went down when TO wasn't around to draw the double teams. Something an Eagle fan might consider...if he was being objective.

threetoedpete
09-07-2006, 04:23 PM
I gave the advantage to the Eagles on both sides. The Eagles have a very good defense, and until the Texans offense proves to be able to pick apart the defense, I give the advantage to the Eagles. I also give the Eagles advantage when they have the ball. Yes, our defense is improved, but just because the Eagles don't have any name players besides McNabb and to a lesser extent Brian Westbrook doesn't mean they can't move the ball. Our defense was ranked dead last last season and they also have to prove they can stop teams.
Another Carr thread wrapped around a poll. At least it's creative. I'll pass...again.

Jerome_Brown_99
09-07-2006, 04:30 PM
Yes the Eagles do have the edge and should be the favorites. Having said that, the last coaching staff was not getting the most out of the talent they had and the new coaching staff appears to be much better. That really cannot always be said. Martz being replaced in St. Louis. Edwards being replaced in NY or Vermeil being replace by Edwards, etc. Like I said the Eagles should be favored and there are some likely mismatches for the Eagles while on the Texans' side there are predicted but unproven improvements. Game day comes sunday--should be a good test for both teams to prove how far they have come from last season.

Agreed - as they say, any given sunday.

But the Eagles SHOULD be considered favorites, and for good reason.

DocBar
09-07-2006, 04:42 PM
I REFUSE to vote against My Texans. :homer: til I die. Luckily, I don't mind being wrong a lot. One of these days, I'll be right and look like the genius I AM!!!! :pigfly:

Jerome_Brown_99
09-07-2006, 04:48 PM
McNabb (with 2 'b's) played thru 11/14 last season. Receiving stats as of 11/14:

LJ - 40 catches - 417 yards
Gates - 43 catches - 707 yards
Gonzo - 45 catches - 457 yards
Shockey - 38 catches - 585 yards

Others I can think of:
Heap - 42 catches - 461 yards
Cooley - 41 catches - 469 yards
Kinney - 44 catches - 486 yards

Maybe they don't check facts back in Philly. Maybe you can't get enough fingers and toes in one room to count that high. Who knows? Here, in the land of no-pass/no-play, someone will check your facts.

As I said before, Smith is a good TE. But, he's not a guy who will dominate. Not on the Gates level, but certainly on the Kinney level. And yeah, LJ's numbers went down after McNabb went out. But LJ's numbers also went down when TO wasn't around to draw the double teams. Something an Eagle fan might consider...if he was being objective.

Sorry, the stat I refered to was not based on McNabb, and that is my fault. The qualifier should have been "through the first 6 games of the season", since it was at that point that McNabbs injuries became overwhelming.

I am used to posting on Eagls boards, and most people there would know what I was talking about - still, my bad.

LJ Can absolutely dominate though, and is out of Kinneys league. You'll see come sunday though. The Texans aren't going to be able to cover both Westy and Smith, and since most teams try to shut Westbrook down first, I think you're going to see him really light you guys up.

LJ SMiths stats went down because he had the worst QB in the NFL throwing him the ball for half the season. McMahon was DREADFULL. And this is coming from a guy that watched Bobby Hoying line up uner center for the Eagles.

I really don't think Owens had anything to do with it. Look back at 2000-2003 when we didn't have Owens and our TE has always been a staple of our offense. With him and without him, our TEs have gotten their catches. It just so happens that McNabb and Owens went out around the same time last year.

E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles
09-07-2006, 04:55 PM
McNabb (with 2 'b's) played thru 11/14 last season. Receiving stats as of 11/14:

LJ - 40 catches - 417 yards
Gates - 43 catches - 707 yards
Gonzo - 45 catches - 457 yards
Shockey - 38 catches - 585 yards

Others I can think of:
Heap - 42 catches - 461 yards
Cooley - 41 catches - 469 yards
Kinney - 44 catches - 486 yards

Maybe they don't check facts back in Philly. Maybe you can't get enough fingers and toes in one room to count that high. Who knows? Here, in the land of no-pass/no-play, someone will check your facts.

As I said before, Smith is a good TE. But, he's not a guy who will dominate. Not on the Gates level, but certainly on the Kinney level. And yeah, LJ's numbers went down after McNabb went out. But LJ's numbers also went down when TO wasn't around to draw the double teams. Something an Eagle fan might consider...if he was being objective.

Please explain how double teaming TO would free up the TE...I could see how it would open up space for the opposite WR since more secondary is being used to cover TO but LBs usually cover the TE...therefore shifting secondary shouldn't really affect the LB coverage of the TE.

u29
09-07-2006, 05:45 PM
advantage goes to the eagles

i would say more so in the rb dept. westbrook is proven and lundy looks good but hey he is still a rook.

e a g l e s- in some cases it does free up the te. take the broncos for example, when we play teams with an excellent te we put champ bailey on them instead of the wr.

if the wr requires double coverage it can free up a te, especially if they have a size speed mismatch over the lbs

but not always