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Blake
09-01-2006, 09:16 AM
You knew this thread was coming back.

I want to get everyones assesment after the pre-season on the 2 QB's for our beloved Texans. My take:

Carr: I understand he is playing 1's against 1's, and that is more dificult. But my problem with him has focused on his decision making. His WR stare down. His unwillingness to throw downfield. How many times did I see the kid roll out with nobody in 10-15 yards of him, only to see him throw 5 yards to someone who is covered. He doest scan the field as well as I would like either.

Sage: Like I said, Sage isnt playing against the 1's, but he also isnt using our #1's. But so far he has looked very good. He does a good job of looking off defenders, something even Porter/Pickett do. He views the field well, and finds the receivers down the field.

To say the least, I have been dissapointed with Carr, and Happy with Sage. I know Kubiak stands behind Carr, and I hope he proves me wrong on this by making Carr a great QB, but I think Carr will be the demise of this team.

Let me hear what you think? And while you do that, here are some stats to chew on.

David Carr
Att: 44
Comp: 28
Yards: 250
TD's: 0
Int: 1
Sacked: 3

Sage Rosenfels
Att: 51
Comp: 32
Yards: 329
TD's: 4
Int: 0
Sacked: 0

texflex513
09-01-2006, 09:18 AM
:backsout: :fight:

Marcus
09-01-2006, 09:20 AM
. . um, no.

real
09-01-2006, 09:22 AM
You are beating a dea....forget it...

LBC_Justin
09-01-2006, 09:24 AM
Let me hear what you think? And while you do that, here are some stats to chew on.

"Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable" - Mark Twain


If Carr goes down this season due to injury. God help us. Sage isn't the answer as much as I and everyone on here would like him to be.


Hopefully Carr becomes the guy we thought we were drafting. If not....it should be an interesting off season.

HOU-TEX
09-01-2006, 09:25 AM
Somebody kill this thread please!:brickwall

Runner
09-01-2006, 09:26 AM
Chapter and verse.

Runner
09-01-2006, 09:27 AM
Chapter and verse.

Runner
09-01-2006, 09:27 AM
Are we done?

real
09-01-2006, 09:28 AM
"Facts are stubborn, but statistics are more pliable" - Mark Twain


If Carr goes down this season due to injury. God help us. Sage isn't the answer as much as I and everyone on here would like him to be.


Hopefully Carr becomes the guy we thought we were drafting. If not....it should be an interesting off season.

So what has Carr done to make you believe he is, and what has Sage done to make you believe he isn't ? And don't give me the "he's only played three games" answer...that response is overated...

texan279
09-01-2006, 09:30 AM
This thread....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v154/texan279/swfighting.jpg

Doom Capers
09-01-2006, 09:32 AM
HELL, PICKETT LOOKED GOOD LAST NIGHT! MAYBE HE SHOULD START OVER CARR TOO! THROW PORTER IN THERE TOO! WHY DO WE EVEN NEED DAVID CARR WHEN WE HAVE SO MUCH POTENTIAL ON THE BENCH! OMG!

this thread should be deleted

Blake
09-01-2006, 09:34 AM
I love how everyones response to my query is to state that this thread is "beating a dead horse"

Listen, if you dont want to debate it, leave the thread. Dont post stupid crap like you are being cute.

LBC_Justin
09-01-2006, 09:35 AM
So what has Carr done to make you believe he is, and what has Sage done to make you believe he isn't ? And don't give me the "he's only played three games" answer...that response is overated...Carr has done nothing. I don't believe in him...yet. In fact he makes me nervous. But I pray he works out, for the sake of our team. But I can tell, Sage is a career back up. The best we could ever hope for from him is a Jake Plumber(best case senario). Call me crazy but I want more. Is Carr the answer, god I hope so. Would I bet my mortgage on it....no, in fact I would bet $10 on it, but I am hoping.

texflex513
09-01-2006, 09:41 AM
So what has Carr done to make you believe he is, and what has Sage done to make you believe he isn't ? And don't give me the "he's only played three games" answer...that response is overated...

This topic has been ran into the ground so much that there is little that can be freshly added to discuss. The only real way to look at it is carr is our starter because kubiak said so its as simple as that. Coach has made up his mind and i dont think anything short of carr getting hurt in preseason would have changed that.

K.D.
09-01-2006, 09:41 AM
MANN, it's time to get over this Carr vs. Sage, this s##t is really getting old. Kubiak makes the decision and whichever way he rolls, I'm rolling with him. BTW, I never seen a QB who did everything perfect, these things you mentioned I'm pretty sure can be corrected.

Mr. White
09-01-2006, 09:42 AM
If you have a backup QB that causes a QB controversy, then that's exactly the kind of backup QB you want.

Case in point:
Steve Beuerlein was good enough to win when he was called upon and helped the Cowboys win a Super Bowl.

He had an average career as a starter. Not much more than a good game manager.

Anyone remember Rob Johnson?

Scott Mitchell?

Cody Carlson?

Mr. White
09-01-2006, 09:50 AM
Carr has done nothing. I don't believe in him...yet. In fact he makes me nervous. But I pray he works out, for the sake of our team. But I can tell, Sage is a career back up. The best we could ever hope for from him is a Jake Plumber(best case senario). Call me crazy but I want more. Is Carr the answer, god I hope so. Would I bet my mortgage on it....no, in fact I would bet $10 on it, but I am hoping.


Kinda funny that you mention Jake Plummer. How much longer do you guys think he has in Denver? Looks like the heat's on over there now.

If Carr doesn't pan out in the next couple of years wouldn't it stand to reason that he might end up in Houston? :hides:

I wonder how hard it would be for a couple of guys from Denver to trade with them? Coaches like to work with their guys. Plummer's a Kubiak guy.

Something to chew on.

real
09-01-2006, 09:57 AM
Carr has done nothing. I don't believe in him...yet. In fact he makes me nervous. But I pray he works out, for the sake of our team. But I can tell, Sage is a career back up. The best we could ever hope for from him is a Jake Plumber(best case senario). Call me crazy but I want more. Is Carr the answer, god I hope so. Would I bet my mortgage on it....no, in fact I would bet $10 on it, but I am hoping.

JP went to a pro-bowl....I'm not sure how you came to the descision that Sage will be forever relegated to be a back-up..especially when he's looked light years ahead of our starter...How can you make such judgements about a guy that you've barely seen play...but not be so sure about Carr, who has been a on this team for 5 yrs ?

chuckm
09-01-2006, 09:59 AM
Please post Porter and Pickett's stats, so we can have a REAL debate ....

texan279
09-01-2006, 10:00 AM
Kinda funny that you mention Jake Plummer. How much longer do you guys think he has in Denver? Looks like the heat's on over there now.

If Carr doesn't pan out in the next couple of years wouldn't it stand to reason that he might end up in Houston? :hides:

I wonder how hard it would be for a couple of guys from Denver to trade with them? Coaches like to work with their guys. Plummer's a Kubiak guy.

Something to chew on.

I was listening to Mike Shanahan on the NFL Network yesterday and he was talking about how Plummer has been in his system for 3 or 4 years now and how Plummer has been getting comfortable and adjusting well to it in the last year or two. I may have taken it out of context or misunderstood since I was only half listenting but it seemed to me he was implying it took a little while for Plummer to get comfortable in Shanahan's system. And before I getted jumped on I am not saying Carr should get a free 4 year pass or anything like that. I would just like to see Carr in this system for at least one full season before I'm ready to come to a final opinion on Carr. I have been defending Carr for awhile now but he's got no more excuses. Our defense has done a 180 already and now it's Carr's turn.

real
09-01-2006, 10:03 AM
This topic has been ran into the ground so much that there is little that can be freshly added to discuss. The only real way to look at it is carr is our starter because kubiak said so its as simple as that. Coach has made up his mind and i dont think anything short of carr getting hurt in preseason would have changed that.
MANN, it's time to get over this Carr vs. Sage, this s##t is really getting old. Kubiak makes the decision and whichever way he rolls, I'm rolling with him. BTW, I never seen a QB who did everything perfect, these things you mentioned I'm pretty sure can be corrected.

I respect everyones comments...But if you don't want to discuss it just don't come into the thread...you see the title but yet you choose to enter anyways...I agree that Kubes makes the descision and not us...that is a "Duh" statement...But my question to you is...Why discuss anything..like roster cuts...Which RB's will won't make it ? ect...None of the descisons are ours.....This is a message board and this is where it shall be discussed...I understand people are tired of hearing about it....But he didn't trick you into making you enter this thread....

Blake
09-01-2006, 10:04 AM
Please post Porter and Pickett's stats, so we can have a REAL debate ....

http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/HOU/2006/pre

All 4 QB's stats.

Lets just say everyone but Carr has an 85+ QB rating.

LORK 88
09-01-2006, 10:04 AM
Comparing Sage vs backups and Carr vs starters is like comparing apples and oranges . . .

Blake
09-01-2006, 10:05 AM
I agree that Kubes makes the descision and not us...that is a "Duh" statement...But my question to you is...Why discuss anything..like roster cuts...Which RB's will won't make it ? ect...None of the descisons are ours.....This is a message board and this is where it shall be discussed...I understand people are tired of hearing about it....But he didn't trick you into making you enter this thread....

Thank you. Great post.

Blake
09-01-2006, 10:06 AM
Comparing Sage vs backups and Carr vs starters is like comparing apples and oranges . . .

Either that, or its like compairing a QB who sucked this pre-season to 3 who did a good job.

real
09-01-2006, 10:08 AM
Please post Porter and Pickett's stats, so we can have a REAL debate ....

IMO, thats not a reasonble discussion.....Moving a player from third to first isn't the same as moving a player from second to first...If you want to discuss a Porter/Pickett or Porter/Sage thread I'll be happy to chime in...

chuckm
09-01-2006, 10:08 AM
I respect everyones comments...But if you don't want to discuss it just don't come into the thread...you see the title but yet you choose to enter anyways...I agree that Kubes makes the descision and not us...that is a "Duh" statement...But my question to you is...Why discuss anything..like roster cuts...Which RB's will won't make it ? ect...None of the descisons are ours.....This is a message board and this is where it shall be discussed...I understand people are tired of hearing about it....But he didn't trick you into making you enter this thread....


he hooked me with the little yellow icon ..... but then I've always been a sucker for exclamation points ....

chuckm
09-01-2006, 10:11 AM
IMO, thats not a reasonble discussion.....Moving a player from third to first isn't the same as moving a player from second to first...If you want to discuss a Porter/Pickett or Porter/Sage thread I'll be happy to chime in...


I agree ..... I guess I should've used a sarcasm thingy ...... stats are useless (IMO) in the preseason .... now if you want to discuss perceptions (like Carr v. Rosenfels comfort level, Carr v. Rosenfels read progression, .....) then we may be on to something ....

real
09-01-2006, 10:11 AM
I agree ..... I guess I should've used a sarcasm thingy ...... stats are useless (IMO) in the preseason .... now if you want to discuss perceptions (like Carr v. Rosenfels comfort level, Carr v. Rosenfels read progression, .....) then we may be on to something ....

Exactly...finally an objective soul...

srstex
09-01-2006, 10:14 AM
I have to say that First I am a Homer, and love Carr as out QB, BUT, even I have been bothered by the stats. Sage looks so comfortable, maybe because he has less expectations on him, and Carr does seem to dance a bit. If Carr looks at enough film of the pre-season and last season side-by-side he will see that the amount of time he has is more than enough to dump the ball off to the RB, throw it away, or tuck and run. Carr is the man, but I need to see two wins out of the first four games.

:homer:

infantrycak
09-01-2006, 10:19 AM
http://www.nfl.com/teams/stats/HOU/2006/pre

All 4 QB's stats.

Lets just say everyone but Carr has an 85+ QB rating.

Gus Frerotte 108.9
Marc Bulger 65.3

Seneca Wallace 82.1
Matt Hasselbeck 64.3

Bruce Gradkowski 105.3
Chris Simms 65.9

Jake Delhomme 83.1
Stefan LeFors 93.9

Todd Collins 78.8
Mark Brunell 49.0

Omar Jacobs 99.5
Ben Roethlisberger 76.1

Let's see what happens in the regular season.

real
09-01-2006, 10:19 AM
I have to say that First I am a Homer, and love Carr as out QB, BUT, even I have been bothered by the stats. Sage looks so comfortable, maybe because he has less expectations on him, and Carr does seem to dance a bit. If Carr looks at enough film of the pre-season and last season side-by-side he will see that the amount of time he has is more than enough to dump the ball off to the RB, throw it away, or tuck and run. Carr is the man, but I need to see two wins out of the first four games.

:homer:

I actually haven't even looked at the stats...I have never been a stat person...I'd rather watch two players play for a certain amount of time and then determine who I think is better...At this point I can't really say Sage is the better QB although IMO, he has performed better this pre-season...i would have liked to see Sage get some reps with the first team, but Kubes knew better than that, because if Sage would have done better than Carr with the first team, against first teamers there wouldn't have been any more exscuses to hide behind and it may have divided the locker room.....

thunderkyss
09-01-2006, 10:20 AM
You knew this thread was coming back.

I want to get everyones assesment after the pre-season on the 2 QB's for our beloved Texans. My take:

Carr: I understand he is playing 1's against 1's, and that is more dificult. But my problem with him has focused on his decision making. His WR stare down. His unwillingness to throw downfield. How many times did I see the kid roll out with nobody in 10-15 yards of him, only to see him throw 5 yards to someone who is covered. He doest scan the field as well as I would like either.

Sage: Like I said, Sage isnt playing against the 1's, but he also isnt using our #1's. But so far he has looked very good. He does a good job of looking off defenders, something even Porter/Pickett do. He views the field well, and finds the receivers down the field.

To say the least, I have been dissapointed with Carr, and Happy with Sage. I know Kubiak stands behind Carr, and I hope he proves me wrong on this by making Carr a great QB, but I think Carr will be the demise of this team.

Let me hear what you think? And while you do that, here are some stats to chew on.

David Carr
Att: 44
Comp: 28
Yards: 250
TD's: 0
Int: 1
Sacked: 3

Sage Rosenfels
Att: 51
Comp: 32
Yards: 329
TD's: 4
Int: 0
Sacked: 0


It is quite possible, that David Carr will be a flop.......... It is possible that he might not be put back together again.

Knowing that, passing on VinceYOung upset me......... quite a bit. But, Kubiak went after this guy Rosenfels..... I figured he was up to something.

My biggest fear, was that Carr would flop, then we'd be looking for another QB.

I'm confident in Sage now, that if Carr does stink it up, and we cut him, I don't think we'd be as desperate for a QB. we can start Sage, as Porter develops....... and if Sage doesn't cut it, we'd have Porter. By the time we find that Porter won't cut it, we'd have another couple of QBs being developed.

Not the same thing as having Vince Young(who I'm sure will one day be in the HoF), but our bases are covered.

Rightnow
09-01-2006, 10:21 AM
Comparing Sage vs backups and Carr vs starters is like comparing apples and oranges . . .

Actually it is like comparing a Car to a Rose.

:D

real
09-01-2006, 10:22 AM
It is quite possible, that David Carr will be a flop.......... It is possible that he might not be put back together again.

Knowing that, passing on VinceYOung upset me......... quite a bit. But, Kubiak went after this guy Rosenfels..... I figured he was up to something.

My biggest fear, was that Carr would flop, then we'd be looking for another QB.

I'm confident in Sage now, that if Carr does stink it up, and we cut him, I don't think we'd be as desperate for a QB. we can start Sage, as Porter develops....... and if Sage doesn't cut it, we'd have Porter. By the time we find that Porter won't cut it, we'd have another couple of QBs being developed.

Not the same thing as having Vince Young(who I'm sure will one day be in the HoF), but our bases are covered.

Even though I disagree with you on a lot of things...I always enjoy your post...

chuckm
09-01-2006, 10:23 AM
Even though I disagree with you on a lot of things...I always enjoy your post...


ditto ..... ditto

texflex513
09-01-2006, 10:25 AM
I respect everyones comments...But if you don't want to discuss it just don't come into the thread...you see the title but yet you choose to enter anyways...I agree that Kubes makes the descision and not us...that is a "Duh" statement...But my question to you is...Why discuss anything..like roster cuts...Which RB's will won't make it ? ect...None of the descisons are ours.....This is a message board and this is where it shall be discussed...I understand people are tired of hearing about it....But he didn't trick you into making you enter this thread....

I dont remember saying i didnt want to discuss it... which is why im right back in the middle of the thread...I merely stated why carr is going to be the starter and you say duh but seriously some people have gotten so caught up into it that they have forgotten that. I think carr should be the starter because he deserves a second chance for what he and this team have been thru whether he takes advantage or not we will just have to wait and see...GO CARR!!!:homer: SAGE who?

HOU-TEX
09-01-2006, 10:25 AM
Even though I disagree with you on a lot of things...I always enjoy your post...

They are quite humerous at times.:rolleyes:

Hulk75
09-01-2006, 10:27 AM
I am starting to miss the let Ragone have a shot threads,were is he now?

chuckm
09-01-2006, 10:28 AM
Feel free to flame me for posting this ...... but ....


Has anyone else "caught" themselves taking some small measure of pleasure when Sage throws an incompletion?


I have to keep reminding myself "He' a Texan, He's a Texan, ..." ....

I try to stay away from these ridiculous threads but I can never quite do it ....

texflex513
09-01-2006, 10:33 AM
lol yes the same way i was when smith had that big run last night... because i truly want taylor to make this squad.

Blake
09-01-2006, 10:33 AM
Let's see what happens in the regular season.

Good post. But what do you think about the way Carr (IMO) still locks on receivers, and is unwilling to throw the deep ball. I am pretty sure that he threw a total of 1 deep ball to Johnson. Everything is dink and dunk, a 10 yard dump off on 3rd and 15.

I just dont see ANY progress like I thought Kubiak expected. He frustrates me.

real
09-01-2006, 10:36 AM
Good post. But what do you think about the way Carr (IMO) still locks on receivers, and is unwilling to throw the deep ball. I am pretty sure that he threw a total of 1 deep ball to Johnson. Everything is dink and dunk, a 10 yard dump off on 3rd and 15.

I just dont see ANY progress like I thought Kubiak expected. He frustrates me.

Thats true...But something else to keep in mind is that we haven't been using our whole playbook.....I would like to see him go down field more also, but if he can dink and dunk untill he scores that IMO, is even better....

Wharton
09-01-2006, 10:37 AM
Let's see what happens in the regular season.
This is about the best quote I've seen on this debate. This is preseason ya'll, it don't mean nothin.

I will say this, Carr is getting the push from his backup he never had with Banks or Ragone.

texflex513
09-01-2006, 10:37 AM
Good post. But what do you think about the way Carr (IMO) still locks on receivers, and is unwilling to throw the deep ball. I am pretty sure that he threw a total of 1 deep ball to Johnson. Everything is dink and dunk, a 10 yard dump off on 3rd and 15.

I just dont see ANY progress like I thought Kubiak expected. He frustrates me.

maybe he is just trying tooooooo hard to be and make PERFECT decisions if he trust himself he will be fine.. but im sure coach has told him this already. I think he is going thru his reads toooo fast and sometimes you have to throw it up there and trust your WR s as well. Oh yea and he needs to recognize that the guys in front of him are his lineman not the other teams.

real
09-01-2006, 10:40 AM
This is about the best quote I've seen on this debate. This is preseason ya'll, it don't mean nothin.

I will say this, Carr is getting the push from his backup he never had with Banks or Ragone.

I would say thats true for an established team like the Colts...But for the Texans I think it means a lot....We have a new system and if players can't get it in the pre-season what leads you to believe they'll get it in the regular season all of a sudden...

HOU-TEX
09-01-2006, 10:42 AM
Thats true...But something else to keep in mind is that we haven't been using our whole playbook.....I would like to see him go down field more also, but if he can dink and dunk untill he scores that IMO, is even better....

I agree 100%. Even though I'd like to see a deep ball here and there (which I think we will) those little dink and dunk passes get first downs which in turn lead to TDs. IIRC, the WCO is dink and dunk, correct?

infantrycak
09-01-2006, 10:43 AM
Good post. But what do you think about the way Carr (IMO) still locks on receivers, and is unwilling to throw the deep ball. I am pretty sure that he threw a total of 1 deep ball to Johnson. Everything is dink and dunk, a 10 yard dump off on 3rd and 15.

I just dont see ANY progress like I thought Kubiak expected. He frustrates me.

IMO the Carr locking on thing is overstated and has improved some this off-season. Where I see the main problem is a reluctance to pull the trigger on his longer routes. As for dink and dunk, that is in part a WCO thing which does involve a lot of YAC. I have nothing against plays like the 1st of the Denver game--4 yd toss to the RB who takes it for 9 and we have 2nd and 1 but they need to open up the game for some down field throws.

FYI--Carr has attempted three deep balls this off-season--none successful. 1 deep over the middle to AJ against the Rams, tipped by a LB. 1 against the Broncos deep on the left side line where Moulds and Carr were off by a foot and 1 deep left side line to AJ against the Broncos.

real
09-01-2006, 10:44 AM
I agree 100%. Even though I'd like to see a deep ball here and there (which I think we will) those little dink and dunk passes get first downs which in turn lead to TDs. IIRC, the WCO is dink and dunk, correct?

Yeah sort of...I would call it more of a short/intermediate pass system though...

real
09-01-2006, 10:46 AM
FYI--Carr has attempted three deep balls this off-season--none successful. 1 deep over the middle to AJ against the Rams, tipped by a LB. 1 against the Broncos deep on the left side line where Moulds and Carr were off by a foot and 1 deep left side line to AJ against the Broncos.

If it weren't for minor mistakes in each, all three would have been great plays...

HOU-TEX
09-01-2006, 10:46 AM
Yeah sort of...I would call it more of a short/intermediate pass system though...

= dink and dunk:)

texflex513
09-01-2006, 10:46 AM
I would say thats true for an established team like the Colts...But for the Texans I think it means a lot....We have a new system and if players can't get it in the pre-season what leads you to believe they'll get it in the regular season all of a sudden... Well maybe with the full playbook and a few games played during the season players will start to get the system. I mean thats why they practice right?

real
09-01-2006, 10:47 AM
= dink and dunk:)

Yeah..lol

real
09-01-2006, 10:49 AM
Well maybe with the full playbook and a few games played during the season players will start to get the system. I mean thats why they practice right?

That shall remain to be seen.

Blake
09-01-2006, 10:54 AM
Well I appreciate all the good insight. I have no problem handing the keys to Carr game 1, and I hope to God he feels the pressure from Sage.

Does anyone know why Carr still throws so low? I mean the guys passes are as low as Browns feild goal attempts.

thunderkyss
09-01-2006, 10:57 AM
Comparing Sage vs backups and Carr vs starters is like comparing apples and oranges . . .
that's like saying comparing Carr to Peyton manning is like comparing apples to oranges.

it doesn't matter that it's apples to oranges, we are comparing them.

In your opinion, do you think Sage's 100.9 QB rating(against 2s & 3s) is better, the same, or not as good as Carr's 69.3 QB rating against starters??

to me, I think it says we should be able to expect Sage to do just as well against the starters as David is.

That doesn't mean that I think Sage should replace Carr. No, David get's his time. he's the starter, and I don't expect him to play like a probowler this year. I do expect to see improvement every week.

If I see another throw to a guy who is covered the way AJ was in the KC & StL games, then we are in trouble.

infantrycak
09-01-2006, 10:58 AM
If it weren't for minor mistakes in each, all three would have been great plays...

True and complete those three and Carr's stat line would likely be -- 31 of 44, 70%, 350 yds, 2 TD's, 1 INT, 99.6 QB rating.

It is a useless what if, but somehow I bet even though his play and decision making would have been essentially no different the discussion around here would be far different.

real
09-01-2006, 10:58 AM
that's like saying comparing Carr to Peyton manning is like comparing apples to oranges.

it doesn't matter that it's apples to oranges, we are comparing them.

In your opinion, do you think Sage's 100.9 QB rating(against 2s & 3s) is better, the same, or not as good as Carr's 69.3 QB rating against starters??

to me, I think it says we should be able to expect Sage to do just as well against the starters as David is.

That doesn't mean that I think Sage should replace Carr. No, David get's his time. he's the starter, and I don't expect him to play like a probowler this year. I do expect to see improvement every week.

If I see another throw to a guy who is covered the way AJ was in the KC & StL games, then we are in trouble.

Best....Post....Ever....

texan279
09-01-2006, 11:00 AM
Thats true...But something else to keep in mind is that we haven't been using our whole playbook.....I would like to see him go down field more also, but if he can dink and dunk untill he scores that IMO, is even better....

I agree 100%. Even though I'd like to see a deep ball here and there (which I think we will) those little dink and dunk passes get first downs which in turn lead to TDs. IIRC, the WCO is dink and dunk, correct?

Yep which is why it kind of irks me when people start complaining that Carr is not airing the ball out. The WCO is an offense where a defense must be stretched with a short passing attack that features sharp patterns by the receivers and quick drops by the quarterback. This 'stretching' will then open up running lanes for the backs to exploit.

SESupergenius
09-01-2006, 11:03 AM
If I see another throw to a guy who is covered the way AJ was in the KC & StL games, then we are in trouble.I saw Sage do the same thing in preseason, he thew to guys that were covered, but he hit the TD's. I saw improvement from Carr through these preseason games, not huge improvement, but there was some. I don't expect him to shine against Philadelphia but I agree, we would need to see improvement. If we continue to run the ball like we are doing, it's going to open up this offense like nobody here has seen before. Trust me, if we get a half way decent defense and a running came, by all logic Carr will be better.

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2006, 11:06 AM
I think the best person to compare Carr to is (hopefully) Jim Plunkett . Plunkett was drafted 1st by the Patriots out of Stanford , he started right away ... got killed and was traded to San Fran . He got killed at SF and was released . He was picked up by the Raiders as a backup to Dan Pastorini . Dante broke his leg and Plunkett with no pressure takes his team to the Superbowl twice .

texflex513
09-01-2006, 11:08 AM
Trust me, if we get a half way decent defense and a running came, by all logic Carr will be better.

I agree..That right there is 2 tons of pressure lifted off of carrs shoulders.

texan279
09-01-2006, 11:11 AM
I saw Sage do the same thing in preseason, he thew to guys that were covered, but he hit the TD's. I saw improvement from Carr through these preseason games, not huge improvement, but there was some. I don't expect him to shine against Philadelphia but I agree, we would need to see improvement. If we continue to run the ball like we are doing, it's going to open up this offense like nobody here has seen before. Trust me, if we get a half way decent defense and a running came, by all logic Carr will be better.

Oh buddy, I hope what we have seen from our defense and running game this preseason is just a mere glimpse of what they do in the regular season. Watching the last few games I could see us turning into a Bears type team this season, great defense, good running game, so-so passing game. IMO our defense has done a total 180, I think our defenseive line will be our strong point this season, and hopefully will help out our thin secondary. I think if Carr gets on track then the running game can open up the passing game and vice versa and playoffs next season IMO would not be that big of a stretch. Who knows, I am almost falling asleep typing this maybe I am just a big :homer: .

cuppacoffee
09-01-2006, 11:27 AM
It is quite possible, that David Carr will be a flop.......... It is possible that he might not be put back together again.

Knowing that, passing on VinceYOung upset me......... quite a bit. But, Kubiak went after this guy Rosenfels..... I figured he was up to something.

My biggest fear, was that Carr would flop, then we'd be looking for another QB.

I'm confident in Sage now, that if Carr does stink it up, and we cut him, I don't think we'd be as desperate for a QB. we can start Sage, as Porter develops....... and if Sage doesn't cut it, we'd have Porter. By the time we find that Porter won't cut it, we'd have another couple of QBs being developed.

Not the same thing as having Vince Young(who I'm sure will one day be in the HoF), but our bases are covered.


TK... you still drinking the PA water?..or got hold of some bad boudain? :D ...:jk:

:coffee:

texflex513
09-01-2006, 11:33 AM
Oh buddy, I hope what we have seen from our defense and running game this preseason is just a mere glimpse of what they do in the regular season. Watching the last few games I could see us turning into a Bears type team this season, great defense, good running game, so-so passing game. IMO our defense has done a total 180, I think our defenseive line will be our strong point this season, and hopefully will help out our thin secondary. I think if Carr gets on track then the running game can open up the passing game and vice versa and playoffs next season IMO would not be that big of a stretch. Who knows, I am almost falling asleep typing this maybe I am just a big :homer: .

If our D line steps it up our DBs will have opportunities to pick off passes left and right :francis: i cant wait this will be a very long week.

texan279
09-01-2006, 11:35 AM
If our D line steps it up our DBs will have opportunities to pick off passes left and right :francis: i cant wait this will be a very long week.

Our defensive line has so much depth it is almost unreal to me. Mario, Kalu, Babin, Peek, TJ, Robaire, and Payne, we could probably field two starting defensive lines with those guys! If we rotate them in and out and keep then fresh our line will dominate IMO.

Double Barrel
09-01-2006, 11:37 AM
Poise, pocket presence, making reads, checking off receivers...these are the characteristics of solid NFL QBs, regardless if they play against starters, 2nd or 3rd stringers. Some guys got it, and some need to get it. We will soon see who has what in 9 days. I can't wait, because then it goes beyond speculation and we have real game situations to evaluate.

Until then, in Carr we trust! :texflag:

texan279
09-01-2006, 11:38 AM
Poise, pocket presence, making reads, checking off receivers...these are the characteristics of solid NFL QBs, regardless if they play against starters, 2nd or 3rd stringers. Some guys got it, and some need to get it. We will soon see who has what in 9 days. I can't wait, because then it goes beyond speculation and we have real game situations to evaluate.

Until then, in Carr we trust! :texflag:

Here, here! Bring on the iggles! :shoot:

texflex513
09-01-2006, 11:39 AM
Our defensive line has so much depth it is almost unreal to me. Mario, Kalu, Babin, Peek, TJ, Robaire, and Payne, we could probably field two starting defensive lines with those guys! If we rotate them in and out and keep then fresh our line will dominate IMO.

No doubt.... i want more of mario and peek on the same side.

cuppacoffee
09-01-2006, 11:40 AM
Best....Post....Ever....

Most posters agree that a reply is BPE when they agree with their point of view.

I learned a lonnnnnnngggggg time ago that it is hard to argue with a yes.:bananasplit:

But that tends to take all the fun out of it.:D


:coffee:

Honoring Earl 34
09-01-2006, 11:56 AM
Most posters agree that a reply is BPE when they agree with their point of view.

I learned a lonnnnnnngggggg time ago that it is hard to argue with a yes.:bananasplit:

But that tends to take all the fun out of it.:D


:coffee:
Bets post ever ... part 2

Double Barrel
09-01-2006, 12:00 PM
Here, here! Bring on the iggles! :shoot:

Bring it! :howdy:

thunderkyss
09-01-2006, 12:36 PM
I just dont see ANY progress like I thought Kubiak expected. He frustrates me.

I think this is the root of all these, "start Sage" thoughts.........

For all we know, David is surpassing what kubes thought he'd be doing, considering the state he found David in......... we really don't know. Since David is still starting, we have to assume that he is either meeting every bar Kubiak places for him, if not going beyound.

thunderkyss
09-01-2006, 12:41 PM
Thats true...But something else to keep in mind is that we haven't been using our whole playbook.....I would like to see him go down field more also, but if he can dink and dunk untill he scores that IMO, is even better....

I agree 100%. Even though I'd like to see a deep ball here and there (which I think we will) those little dink and dunk passes get first downs which in turn lead to TDs. IIRC, the WCO is dink and dunk, correct?

Just asking...... why would it be better for our QB to dink and dunk us to a score, but we've got to have a RB who is a threat to score from anywhere on the field??

I'd be happy with the RB who can dink and dunk us to the endzone, and the QB who can strike from anywhere.

thunderkyss
09-01-2006, 12:58 PM
TK... you still drinking the PA water?..or got hold of some bad boudain? :D ...:jk:

:coffee:


Now you know their ain't no such thang as bad boudain............ :tease:

TK_Gamer
09-01-2006, 01:18 PM
well if I were a betting man....I would bet David Carr will start in the philly game. now if the defense plays good and the running game works carr will do fine. as for sage...did anyone notice the 4 or 5 terrible throws he's had to checkdowns? to checkdowns? thats why sage will never start and Carr will get his chance. I would rather watch david carr miss or throw an int to andre than watch sage miss a checkdown dump to the full back thats wide open. this offense is all about check downs and dump offs, and Carr does them just fine. once he has a lil confidence in the line and the rb's picking up LB blitzes up the middle then the long ball will definately be an option. those that went to training camp practices know david can throw the deep ball, so its not ability, its confidence , and it will surely come. and I will expect a platefulll of crow burgers to be had by all you naysayers.

HOU-TEX
09-01-2006, 01:42 PM
Just asking...... why would it be better for our QB to dink and dunk us to a score, but we've got to have a RB who is a threat to score from anywhere on the field??

I'd be happy with the RB who can dink and dunk us to the endzone, and the QB who can strike from anywhere.

We were discussing the passing game. Sure, everyone would love to be able to run the ball all the time. The dink and dunk passing game is just as good as running the ball as far as keeping the defense off the field and killing the clock. That's assuming they're completing the passes on a regulat basis.:redtowel: