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View Full Version : Seth Wand is starting LT


tacoman_j
08-28-2006, 11:10 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/teams/texans/index.html

Seth wand beat Spencer as LT. This suks

Divebomb
08-28-2006, 11:12 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/teams/texans/index.html

Seth wand beat Spencer as LT. This suks


Unless I see it on this web site I do not believe that garbage. sporting news, those guys have no clue about the Texans

Peldon
08-28-2006, 11:19 PM
Unless I see it on this web site I do not believe that garbage. sporting news, those guys have no clue about the Texans

Especially when they say earlier in the article that Lundy and Morency are sharing the load with Antowain Smith.

Texans Pride
08-28-2006, 11:21 PM
Megan Manfall also writes for the Chronicle

Divebomb
08-28-2006, 11:23 PM
Megan Manfall also writes for the Chronicle

LOL Then she should pull her head out of her ### and look around!!!! Some people!

painekiller
08-28-2006, 11:23 PM
Megan Manfull has been out for a while on maternity leave. So this is an old article. Sorry to burst everyone bubble.

jerek
08-28-2006, 11:24 PM
Manfull and the article contained other questionable statements ... I'm not saying it's not possible but I'm taking with a big grain of salt until I see this confirmed elsewhere. IMO Wand has shown good improvement but has made his own mistakes.

Divebomb
08-28-2006, 11:25 PM
Megan Manfull has been out for a while on maternity leave. So this is an old article. Sorry to burst everyone bubble.


Hey thank goodness. I about had a stroke LOL. I was afraid we hade a Cowboys troll inbeded in the Chron.

WILLIEG
08-28-2006, 11:31 PM
This is pretty easy to believe to me. If you watched any of the games during the pre-season than you would have noticed how Spencer lacks the footwork in order to keep the defenders from beating him. Although he is strong as hell and has a strong first punch, that's all he has. He often over extends himself out on DE's and that leaves the inside open to bring down the QB. Wand is much better in his footwork, but he is really weak in the upper body and lets the defenders lock into him to much. So pick your poison. Would you rather have a young inexperienced LT that has bad footwork and will get beat on the inside/outside, but good upper body strength or an experienced LT that is weak in the upper body and lets defenders into his body, but has very good footwok. Carr success starts up front!

Hutch13
08-28-2006, 11:32 PM
Well if this is true i am disapointed i was hoping Spencer would start. I think in a few years he could be a pro bowler.

Hervoyel
08-28-2006, 11:37 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/teams/texans/index.html

Seth wand beat Spencer as LT. This suks

Aside from the fact that the article might not be up to date why would this suck? I'd expect Wand to beat out a rookie LT with as little experience as Spencer has. I'd also expect the coaches to start the one that gave us the best chance to win.

It doesn't matter if it's Wand or Spencer I want the best guy we have for the position to play it.

WILLIEG
08-28-2006, 11:47 PM
Aside from the fact that the article might not be up to date why would this suck? I'd expect Wand to beat out a rookie LT with as little experience as Spencer has. I'd also expect the coaches to start the one that gave us the best chance to win.

It doesn't matter if it's Wand or Spencer I want the best guy we have for the position to play it.
I couldn't agree more! With Wand starting ahead of Spencer I think our # of sacks will be lesser compared is Spencer started off the season with no experience and his bad footwork. Looks like a Wand is diffently going to have his hands full throughout the first half of the season. Have you seen our schedule and his matchups. He should have it a lot easier during the second half of the season although.

jerek
08-28-2006, 11:51 PM
Megan Manfull has been out for a while on maternity leave. So this is an old article. Sorry to burst everyone bubble.

That makes sense, but it was the August 27 up top that threw me off.

WILLIEG
08-28-2006, 11:59 PM
That makes sense, but it was the August 27 up top that threw me off.
Even if the article is old, I'd be willing to bet anyone that he starts the season.

jerek
08-29-2006, 12:07 AM
Even if the article is old, I'd be willing to bet anyone that he starts the season.

I'm not so confident so as to bet you, but it wouldn't surprise me if Spencer makes the starter role. That he started against the Broncos -- the closest thing we have to a regular season dress rehearsel -- IMO is testament that Kubiak is very seriously considering the prospect, if he hasn't already decided on it.

Wand has shown substantial improvement but IMO there is a lot of sunshine blowing when it comes to the guy on this board. I have watched a lot of tape the past few weeks and he has made his own mistakes. I will happily admit that I may have been quick to condemn Seth back when we were early into camp and I was reporting on his position drill work, but I stand by my assertion that he is not likely the franchise LT of this team. There is plenty of time yet for him to prove me wrong but I'm still leaning toward Spencer inheriting the position sooner rather than later.

Runner
08-29-2006, 12:21 AM
]']Give Wand least 3 games.

Seems reasonable to me. He has had one year of playing experience with mixed results and Spencer has not beat him out. Carr has had 4 years playing with mixed results and hasn't been beaten out. They both have had equally bad coaching and systems to work with. The difference is Wand was beat down by the last staff and Carr was propped up. If Carr gets another half to full season to prove himself, why not Wand? Is the double standard that blatant?

Aside from the fact that the article might not be up to date why would this suck?

Because Wand has a stigma associated with his name from the Joe Pendry days. In reality, Wand's play on the field now is well above his play in 2004. An evaluation of Wand and Spencer's pre-season game play without regard for the name on the jersey does not support the conclusion that Wand sucks and Spencer is a Pro Bowler in the making. Spencer just gets the benefit of the doubt since he's new and hasn't disappointed anyone yet.

That being said, a case could be made that our two best tackles are Wand and Spencer, and it does suck that they are both on the left side. I wonder if that will change.

Napa Auto Parts
08-29-2006, 12:24 AM
So in all of this were does winston fall i fell in love with him during draft time on NFL radio with PK Calling him a monster and praising him saying he was 1st round talent.

Scooter
08-29-2006, 12:32 AM
]']Could it be that Wand is more mobile and decent at best at pass protect?

i really need to go back and re-watch the last couple of games, but it's seemed to me that the two are backwards. i thought spencer looked better in pass protection, while wand really appeared to pick up the zone scheme. wand's known more for his footwork and agility, while spencer's the big body, but from the play that i've seen ... they looked to be the opposite of what was expected. as of right now, i'm guessing that the two are about even as far as who's projected to start. i bet it comes down to our initial gameplan as to who gets the nod. either way, i'm MUCH more worried about the right side of the line.

WILLIEG
08-29-2006, 12:35 AM
I'm not so confident so as to bet you, but it wouldn't surprise me if Spencer makes the starter role. That he started against the Broncos -- the closest thing we have to a regular season dress rehearsel -- IMO is testament that Kubiak is very seriously considering the prospect, if he hasn't already decided on it.

Wand has shown substantial improvement but IMO there is a lot of sunshine blowing when it comes to the guy on this board. I have watched a lot of tape the past few weeks and he has made his own mistakes. I will happily admit that I may have been quick to condemn Seth back when we were early into camp and I was reporting on his position drill work, but I stand by my assertion that he is not likely the franchise LT of this team. There is plenty of time yet for him to prove me wrong but I'm still leaning toward Spencer inheriting the position sooner rather than later.
I have also seen alot of tape this year as well, but the deciding factor will be GK deciding to go with an unexperienced LT who is really built like a guard or the experience (although limited) of Wand who has done a better job in my grading of him compared to Spencer. The first half of the season is giong to be really hard for whoever GL sticks in there at LT. I do agree that Wand at best is a servicable LT and the only reason he will start over Sencer is, because of his footwork and experience. Spencer is strong in the upper body, but has a long way to go with his footwork. Wand has great footwork, but is weak in the upper body. Pick your Poison!

Runner
08-29-2006, 12:36 AM
So in all of this were does winston fall i fell in love with him during draft time on NFL radio with PK Calling him a monster and praising him saying he was 1st round talent.

I think reality struck in Winston's case. For as highly touted as he was by some, he wasn't a first round talent as evaluated by the NFL teams. There were many posts during OTAs that Winston would end up being the starting LT this year. Spencer's good play and rapid adjustment to the pro game made people forget about Winston. Fans are fickle.

As someone stated before though, we have some good depth along the line and especially at tackle for a change. The future does look bright for the o-line.

WILLIEG
08-29-2006, 12:45 AM
Wand will at best be a servicable backup LT whenever we get a true LT that can pass protect and run block. Spencer will sooner or later get his shot, but his footwork bothers me to much. And if GK decides to go ahead with Spencer then I feel very sorry for him and whomever plays that postion during the first half of the seson.

Runner
08-29-2006, 12:49 AM
Wand has shown substantial improvement ...

I think this is important. Wand has a new system (like everyone else) and more importantly has been taught proper technique for the first time in his career. If he is showing "substantial improvement", why assume that improvement has reached its summit? As he gets more and more comfortable with the system and doing things the right way he should continue to improve.

IMO, a lot of his struggles early on were caused by him thinking about what to do rather than just naturally doing it. As everything is becoming automatic he is performing better. I don't think his improvement stops just because camp has ended and pre-season is ending.

For that matter, I expect everyone to get better as the season progresses.

WILLIEG
08-29-2006, 12:51 AM
I think this is important. Wand has a new system (like everyone else) and more importantly has been taught proper technique for the first time in his career. If he is showing "substantial improvement", why assume that improvement has reached its summit? As he gets more and more comfortable with the system and doing things the right way he should continue to improve.

IMO, a lot of his struggles early on were caused by him thinking about what to do rather than just naturally doing it. As everything is becoming automatic he is performing better. I don't think his improvement stops just because camp has ended and pre-season is ending.

For that matter, I expect everyone to get better as the season progresses.
Well Said!

real
08-29-2006, 08:06 AM
This is pretty easy to believe to me. If you watched any of the games during the pre-season than you would have noticed how Spencer lacks the footwork in order to keep the defenders from beating him. Although he is strong as hell and has a strong first punch, that's all he has. He often over extends himself out on DE's and that leaves the inside open to bring down the QB. Wand is much better in his footwork, but he is really weak in the upper body and lets the defenders lock into him to much. So pick your poison. Would you rather have a young inexperienced LT that has bad footwork and will get beat on the inside/outside, but good upper body strength or an experienced LT that is weak in the upper body and lets defenders into his body, but has very good footwok. Carr success starts up front!

What Spencer are you looking at ??!! I honestly didn't pay much attention to him in the first 2 games but I watched him closely against the broncos, and he looked pretty good...On a lot of those pass plays he was one on one with the DE and totally shut him down...He is an animal in the run game...On one play I saw, maybe the third play of the game, he ran right over Ian Gold..He made his share of mistakes, but he is very agressive and he has been pretty solid in the pass game, and that is what really counts from your left tackle...If any thing Seth may find himself on the right side because IMO, wiegert looks overmatched...But I actually feel more comfortable with Spencer starting, but thats JMO...:mario:

Texas
08-29-2006, 08:11 AM
Even if Spencer isnt yet better then Wand I still think spencer should start because the fact is he WILL be better...And the more practice the merrier.

Runner
08-29-2006, 08:13 AM
Even if Spencer isnt yet better then Wand I still think spencer should start because the fact is he WILL be better...And the more practice the merrier.

Interesting concept - don't put your best players on the field. Start the ones you predict will be better at some point in the future.

Should we do this at every position?

nunusguy
08-29-2006, 08:20 AM
Interesting concept - don't put your best players on the field. Start the ones you predict will be better at some point inthe future.
Should we do this at every position?
I to find dubious wisdom in this philosophy, but teams do it frequently.
Capers & crew did it with Babin based upon his "perceived" potential, and
Kubiak & Co may be doing it right now with Mario.

Texas
08-29-2006, 08:47 AM
No do it at the positions where the 2nd stringer is close to level with the first stringer...Spencer is close enough to Wand to take the spot so I beleive he should get it

JohnGalt
08-29-2006, 08:50 AM
The NFL is about winning now, not about winning tomorrow.

You should always have your best 11 on the field.

Exception: The Preseason is about winning tomorrow... Could that be why Lundy and Spencer have been starting?

real
08-29-2006, 08:51 AM
I to find dubious wisdom in this philosophy, but teams do it frequently.
Capers & crew did it with Babin based upon his "perceived" potential, and
Kubiak & Co may be doing it right now with Mario.

You honestly think we have a DE better than Mario ?

JohnGalt
08-29-2006, 08:52 AM
Furthermore, who's to say that Wand doesn't have as much or more upside than Spencer?

I think both players are too raw at this point to really know their potential.

Honoring Earl 34
08-29-2006, 09:07 AM
OK lets start counting OTs . Weigert , Winston , Spencer , Wand , Salaam , Pitts if needed . Their keeping four ... I doubt their cutting Spencer , Weigert , Winston . Who do you keep a proven vet in Salaam or Wand ? Wand may get cut ?

JohnGalt
08-29-2006, 09:12 AM
If it's anyone, it's Salaam.

Salaam hasn't even had a sniff of the starting spot.

Honoring Earl 34
08-29-2006, 09:15 AM
Salaam is not supposed to start , he backs up either tackle and knows the offense .

Kaiser Toro
08-29-2006, 09:18 AM
Spencer in my opinion has terrific and agile feet for a man his size. His footwork from a technique (balance) standpoint may be in question. Just want to throw my two cents out there, before Spencer gets labeled as a big immobile ogre, which I firmly believe he is not.

real
08-29-2006, 09:20 AM
Spencer in my opinion has terrific and agile feet for a man his size. His footwork from a technique (balance) standpoint may be in question. Just want to throw my two cents out there, before Spencer gets labeled as a big immobile ogre, which I firmly believe he is not.

Exactly...

Honoring Earl 34
08-29-2006, 09:23 AM
Spencer would not have been drafted by Kubiak ... for this offense if he was a big stiff . Wands biggest downfall is he gets flattened on a bullrush . You could'nt flatten Spencer with a bulldozer .

infantrycak
08-29-2006, 09:44 AM
I to find dubious wisdom in this philosophy, but teams do it frequently.
Capers & crew did it with Babin based upon his "perceived" potential, and
Kubiak & Co may be doing it right now with Mario.

Really?--who was benched in favor of Babin that was a better current player? A case could be made they handed him the job by not bringing in solid vet competition but I don't recall anyone on the roster that got benched like you're saying.

Runner
08-29-2006, 09:44 AM
Spencer in my opinion has terrific and agile feet for a man his size. His footwork from a technique (balance) standpoint may be in question. Just want to throw my two cents out there, before Spencer gets labeled as a big immobile ogre, which I firmly believe he is not.

Agreed. I'm not binary - I don't think if Wand is good then Spencer is bad, or if Spencer is good Wand is bad.

I think Wand is a better player right now. I think both players are starter quality and getting better. If true, this is a good thing.

Kaiser Toro
08-29-2006, 09:47 AM
Agreed. I'm not binary - I don't think if Wand is good then Spencer is bad, or if Spencer is good Wand is bad.

I think Wand is a better player right now. I think both players are starter quality and getting better. This is a good thing.

I agree on Wand. Just did not think the protrait being painted of Spencer was framed properly.

Runner
08-29-2006, 09:49 AM
I agree on Wand. Just did not think the protrait being painted of Spencer was framed properly.

I know - I quoted you to frame my reply, not because I was taking issue with your statement. That is why I always try to mention when ranking one player over another that the other player might be good too. It's best to be clear on these matters.

Like I mentioned before - what if Wand and Spencer are clearly our best tackles after a few games (or their is an injury at RT)? Do you flip one to RT?

JohnGalt
08-29-2006, 09:54 AM
If one is starting at LT and there is an injury at RT. I think you move the other over to RT for the sake of continuity on the left.

Kaiser Toro
08-29-2006, 10:07 AM
Like I mentioned before - what if Wand and Spencer are clearly our best tackles after a few games (or their is an injury at RT)? Do you flip one to RT?

I do not. Knowing what position you are going to play and learnign how to play it have a residual benefit along a plane of linear logic. Moreover, it gives depth and flexibility against different styles of match ups against our opponents. To really cut to the chase, Wand is playing for a contract next year and Spencer is our LT in the future as it stands now in my opinion.

Weigert is a placeholder at RT this year just like other veterans. He will have his low lights, but most often he will perform to expectations. That is what you expect your linemen to do which allows your big money skill position players to make some plays.

Runner
08-29-2006, 10:10 AM
We need an RT for the future too though. I'm not ready to give that crown to Winston until I see something on the field that warrants it.

Kaiser Toro
08-29-2006, 10:14 AM
We need an RT for the future too though. I'm not ready to give that crown to Winston until I see something on the field that warrants it.

As I have said before I never expected Winston to play much this year. Year 2 is when I expected ROI and I have no inclination to think that timetable or perception is off track. He still has a full season and training camp to learn and develop.

Runner
08-29-2006, 10:25 AM
My point is, what if Winston doesn't work out? It would be nice if Wand/Spencer were our bookends if they show the capability and are our best tackles.

nunusguy
08-29-2006, 01:06 PM
You honestly think we have a DE better than Mario ?
I really think if it were not for where Mario was drafted, he might not displace either Weaver at strongside DE or the Babin/Peek combo on the other side for the season opener against Philly. I do think he would start at
tackle as he would be one of our 2 best DTs.
Rookie DeMeco Ryans was given the opportunity at MLB, and now that this preseason is over there's not much doubt that he should be there, is already one of our more capable defenders, and could really develope into an elite defensive player in the NFL. I honestly can't say the same thing about Mario at this point in time.

kingh99
08-29-2006, 01:28 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/teams/texans/index.html

Seth wand beat Spencer as LT. This suks

Insane.

HOU-TEX
08-29-2006, 01:46 PM
If one is starting at LT and there is an injury at RT. I think you move the other over to RT for the sake of continuity on the left.

IIRC, a while back Kubiak made a statement about who was going to be the "swing tackle". I think he was refering to Spencer and Wand. I haven't heard anything since. I'll see if I can dig it up. Personally, they've both been equally impressive to me. Spencer has started the past two games and has made a couple rookie mistakes. I would think Wand will start this next game. Whatever the coach decides I'll be ok with.:twocents:

Htown34s
08-29-2006, 02:00 PM
Spencer in my opinion has terrific and agile feet for a man his size. His footwork from a technique (balance) standpoint may be in question.

I agree. I've been watching the OL on every play this preseason. Spencer has had some amazing shut downs on passing plays. He must be incredibly strong. He also runs decent for a big guy. IMO he is our future LT. I could see him not starting the year but bumping Wand a few games into the season when he gets his assignments down.

Weigert had a wonderful preseason before the Denver game, so no one is perfect, especially on our OL! I really think this OL will be above average if they continue to gel together and everyone gets the system down. Right now I'd say our biggest concerns with blocking are with the FB's and TE's.

dalemurphy
08-29-2006, 02:05 PM
Insane.


The Philadelphia Eagle blitz packages would be quite an introduction to the NFL for Spencer. Not only that, but if a rookie was starting in week one, I'm sure they'd design some exotic blitzes designed specifically to attack Spencer. It's wise not to throw him into that mess.

Remember, we're not dealing with the previous regime. It's not a situation where the two linemen weren't evaluated well before a decision was made. This group knows what they're doing.

Runner
08-29-2006, 07:25 PM
From the latest lockr room quotes:

(on G Steve McKinney (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=47)) “We’d like to give McKinney some work. I’m going to say once again that’ll probably be a game-time decision on how he practices today and tomorrow. But he needs some work. I know what he can do for this team and he’s going to be part of this team. Other than that, that first group will not play. Charles Spencer will definitely play, he’s a young kid and needs some time. He needs to get on the field, so he will definitely play. Fred (Weary) will not play.”


So if the "first group will not play" and "Charles Spencer will definitely play" - does that mean Wand is starting the season opener?

Sounds like it to me.

Then again, maybe they will both play and Spencer was mentioned as an exception to "the first group will not play".

http://www.houstontexans.com/news/detail.php?PRKey=2808&section=N%20Latest%20News

pittbull
08-29-2006, 08:50 PM
I think all of us would love to give the beneift of doubt to Seth Wand, being a "veteran", but face it, Spencer, with the exception of the holding call last week in Denver, did an unreal job!!! The holding call was actually Carr's fault, as he had a man open down the seam and was fearful of getting rid of the ball, thinking the safety would make the jump on the ball. Spencer is more agile, has better strength, great size, and is a more natural football player than Wand can imagine, and brings a nasty streak in the trenches. Just because Spencer is a third round pick, does not mean he is in the same category as Wand, who was picked up solely as a project, due to his size. WELL, size doesn't always make you a good player. He has failed to make the adjustment to the NFL. Many had spencer in the draft going as high as early round 2. But, if Ryans can slip to the 2nd round, Spence can slip to the 3rd. Frankly, it was a deep draft! Spencer won this job, and you may expect to see Wand released before the start of the season, thus the work from Salaam at left tackle on Sunday. If you need to get any confirmation of lineman that can get the job done and not be drafted in the first round, look at teams like the Patriots, Steelers, and Colts, who have all built lines without #1 picks at each position!