PDA

View Full Version : Eric Moulds caught off guard on the deep pass?????


Divebomb
08-28-2006, 11:12 PM
I rewatched the deep route play, no doubt about it that Moulds was at about half speed at the start of the route. Even as he broke into position for the fade route he was not at full speed and once he saw Carr throw the ball his direction he was in 6th gear and really screaming down the field trying to get to the ball. It really looked as if he was caught off guard. I think that the recievers even feel that Carr is a short pass only QB. I know one thing for sure, Moulds made up for it on his next catch and he ran much faster on every route after that LOL.

RiotCommander
08-28-2006, 11:48 PM
I rewatched the deep route play, no doubt about it that Moulds was at about half speed at the start of the route. Even as he broke into position for the fade route he was not at full speed and once he saw Carr throw the ball his direction he was in 6th gear and really screaming down the field trying to get to the ball. It really looked as if he was caught off guard. I think that the recievers even feel that Carr is a short pass only QB. I know one thing for sure, Moulds made up for it on his next catch and he ran much faster on every route after that LOL.


I just got a chance to watch the game myself for the first time. To me it looked like a WR trying to get the CB to relax then turning the burners on to get seperation. It worked, just not well enough. He needed just a step or two more to catch it. I like the play, it will work in time.

Divebomb
08-29-2006, 12:09 AM
A great pass is when it hits your recievers in the hands not 3 yards in front of the guy. So if Carr overthrows every pass from here on out we will have a great year? He overthrew his reciever. Dude you listen to that vomit comming out of Sterling Sharps mouth if you want to. The only positive out of that throw was that 1 it was not intercepted and 2 Carr finally threw one deep!

Divebomb
08-29-2006, 12:10 AM
It was good though of Carr to go for the deep route and I give the guy props for doing so. I hope he does it more often. It did show he has the arm strenght. If he does that more often he will get his timming down and make that throw.

Sudds
08-29-2006, 12:27 AM
To say that because Moulds was cruising at the beginning of the play is because he only considers Carr to be a short route QB is absolutely rediciulous. Have you ever played this game before? Carr has as strong an arm as anyone. Stop making conclusions on your lack of football knowledge. That was Moulds fault, period. David threw the ball exactly where it needed to be if Moulds was running full speed the entire route. Just because you are against everything that Carr does, don't make up unknowledgable reasons or weird assumptions as to why Moulds didn't hustle the entire route. At least give Carr credit for putting the throw on the money. Bias is a very bad thing my man...don't let it make you look stupid. Be objective and fair. You may not like Carr for his progress thus far in his career, but that throw was money and he deserves credit. This entire board is losing objectivity with Carr.

infantrycak
08-29-2006, 12:44 AM
A great pass is when it hits your recievers in the hands not 3 yards in front of the guy. So if Carr overthrows every pass from here on out we will have a great year? He overthrew his reciever. Dude you listen to that vomit comming out of Sterling Sharps mouth if you want to. The only positive out of that throw was that 1 it was not intercepted and 2 Carr finally threw one deep!

So do you have a position in this thread? Seems like your 1st post and this post contradict.

CloakNNNdagger
08-29-2006, 09:41 AM
Watching Moulds over the the last few weeks, even when he is not thrown to, his speed is NOT a problem. There's lots left in the afterburner. The problem on the play in question simply seems to be that he and Carr were evidently not quite on the same page. We won't exactly know why, since we don't know how the play was called in the first place. But, NO, be assured that Mould can still run by the secondary.

V Man
08-29-2006, 09:48 AM
I just got a chance to watch the game myself for the first time. To me it looked like a WR trying to get the CB to relax then turning the burners on to get seperation. It worked, just not well enough. He needed just a step or two more to catch it. I like the play, it will work in time.

That is what I thought also. He was setting up the CB. Just the throw was a little to long.

real
08-29-2006, 09:55 AM
I just got a chance to watch the game myself for the first time. To me it looked like a WR trying to get the CB to relax then turning the burners on to get seperation. It worked, just not well enough. He needed just a step or two more to catch it. I like the play, it will work in time.

Exactly...And that is exactly what it looked like...

real
08-29-2006, 10:02 AM
Watching Moulds over the the last few weeks, even when he is not thrown to, his speed is NOT a problem. There's lots left in the afterburner. The problem on the play in question simply seems to be that he and Carr were evidently not quite on the same page. We won't exactly know why, since we don't know how the play was called in the first place. But, NO, be assured that Mould can still run by the secondary.

What do you mean "not quite on the same page"...It wasn't a messed up route, or terribly thrown ball...It was just a little long...You are reading too much into nothing...Receivers do it all the time...It's how the set up the corner...and when the ball is thrown it catches the corner off gaurd because he was used to that one speed and then all of a sudden has to adjust and by that time Moulds was already diving for the ball...If Moulds would have come out full speed the corner would have sped up and been step for step with him...And it would have alerted the safety...This guy is an all pro wide reciever and has been successful for a long period of time on an un successful football team...This guy has more class and is smart enough not to slack off "because he thinks the ball isn't coming his way"...He can recognize coverage people and he knew he was gonna have an opening to catch the ball...puhhhhleeeeez....end of thread...

Edit: and it wasn't really anyones fault...The ball was just a little long, and Moulds was just a little too slow...It was just a timing thing that the reciever and QB need to practice and get better at...it was almost done to perfection...relax

jdog
08-29-2006, 10:30 AM
A great pass is when it hits your recievers in the hands not 3 yards in front of the guy. So if Carr overthrows every pass from here on out we will have a great year? He overthrew his reciever. Dude you listen to that vomit comming out of Sterling Sharps mouth if you want to. The only positive out of that throw was that 1 it was not intercepted and 2 Carr finally threw one deep!

You have to anticipate and lead. I personally think they both did a fine job. It's preseason, and they are new to each other. I think they'll be clicking soon on that deep pass.

rittenhouserobz
08-29-2006, 10:52 AM
Carr had to throw the pass long before Moulds was near the ball. I believe it is up to the reciever to adjust to the ball once it is in the air. Carr can't slow down, speed up, turn the ball left, right, up or down. He put the ball in the vicinity. It is up to Moulds to adjust or speed up. IMHO

real
08-29-2006, 10:56 AM
Carr had to throw the pass long before Moulds was near the ball. I believe it is up to the reciever to adjust to the ball once it is in the air. Carr can't slow down, speed up, turn the ball left, right, up or down. He put the ball in the vicinity. It is up to Moulds to adjust or speed up. IMHO

You can't pin it on one guy because you don't know how they practice that play, and you don't know how they wanted Carr or Moulds to run it...Moulds may have ran it perfectly for all you know, and the ball was just a little long...and since when has it become acceptable for a QB to not be as accurate as possible ?

rittenhouserobz
08-29-2006, 11:06 AM
You can't say Carr wasn't spot on either. I think it is common knowledge that as the distance of a thrown object increases the accuracy decreases. The WR's in the NFL have to adjust all the time. I am willing to bet Roy Williams or AJ would have caught that ball, because they would have found that "extra gear" that Moulds didn't appear to have. Just the facts of life. Moulds is will help us pick apart a zone defense all day, but he will not be running go routes down the left side of the field much.

I fully expect Carr to be on the money with 10 yard passes. That is why I would say he did a terrible job leading Lundy on the interception play. Given the distance of the throw and the level of accuracy on the pass.

I would say he was within 3 ft of his spot on the longer pass. He hit the spot and Moulds missed it.

real
08-29-2006, 11:42 AM
You can't say Carr wasn't spot on either. I think it is common knowledge that as the distance of a thrown object increases the accuracy decreases. The WR's in the NFL have to adjust all the time. I am willing to bet Roy Williams or AJ would have caught that ball, because they would have found that "extra gear" that Moulds didn't appear to have. Just the facts of life. Moulds is will help us pick apart a zone defense all day, but he will not be running go routes down the left side of the field much.

I fully expect Carr to be on the money with 10 yard passes. That is why I would say he did a terrible job leading Lundy on the interception play. Given the distance of the throw and the level of accuracy on the pass.

I would say he was within 3 ft of his spot on the longer pass. He hit the spot and Moulds missed it.


That may be true for the average guy out back playing with his buddies, but It is the NFL and a lot is asked from both the reciever and the QB. There are plenty of QB's in the leauge that could have tightened up that throw and dropped it into Moulds bread basket...he wouldn't have had to "find that extra gear" or dive for that matter...Just like there are some recievers that could have made an incredible catch...Be logical about it...You are expecting amazing catches from the recieveer, but you don't hold the QB accountable and expect an amazing pass...It was a good pass and good effort from the reciever...Like I stated earlier, they both need to work on their timing so THEY can get it right...

CloakNNNdagger
08-29-2006, 12:06 PM
What do you mean "not quite on the same page"...It wasn't a messed up route, or terribly thrown ball...It was just a little long...You are reading too much into nothing...Receivers do it all the time...It's how the set up the corner...and when the ball is thrown it catches the corner off gaurd because he was used to that one speed and then all of a sudden has to adjust and by that time Moulds was already diving for the ball...If Moulds would have come out full speed the corner would have sped up and been step for step with him...And it would have alerted the safety...This guy is an all pro wide reciever and has been successful for a long period of time on an un successful football team...This guy has more class and is smart enough not to slack off "because he thinks the ball isn't coming his way"...He can recognize coverage people and he knew he was gonna have an opening to catch the ball...puhhhhleeeeez....end of thread...

Edit: and it wasn't really anyones fault...The ball was just a little long, and Moulds was just a little too slow...It was just a timing thing that the reciever and QB need to practice and get better at...it was almost done to perfection...relax

I wasn't trying to read anything into that play. I was merely saying that we don't know what the route was to be. Was Moulds to stop and go midfield or long? Was he to go full out? Was Carr to emperically throw it to a certain spot with Moulds to be expected there? Was Carr to throw to Moulds right after a hitch and go? Was it timing or routes not being coordinated? Or was it both players trying to improvise to make things happen when nothing else was available? We don't know, because we don't know what play was called to exactly determine why it didn't consumate. All these aforementioned questions would potentially reflect not "being on the same page." There is nothing to be read into this play, other than it didn't work out.

real
08-29-2006, 12:14 PM
I wasn't trying to read anything into that play. I was merely saying that we don't know what the route was to be. Was Moulds to stop and go midfield or long? Was he to go full out? Was Carr to emperically throw it to a certain spot with Moulds to be expected there? Was Carr to throw to Moulds right after a hitch and go? Was it timing or routes not being coordinated? Or was it both players trying to improvise to make things happen when nothing else was available?We don't know, because we don't know what play was called to exactly determine why it didn't consumate. All these aforementioned questions would potentially reflect not "being on the same page." There is nothing to be read into this play, other than it didn't work out.

O.k I can agree with that...But I know I quoted you, but after rereading what you wrote I didn't disagree too much with what you said...But I agree, we don't know the specifics of the play so it would be foolish for us to point out one player was wrong...IMO, it was a pretty good play on both parts; Moulds with the hesitation and then getting seperation from the corner, and Carr for dropping it in before the safety could come over...with jut a little bit more time they will be connecting on those...

Divebomb
08-29-2006, 03:35 PM
So do you have a position in this thread? Seems like your 1st post and this post contradict.

No they dont, I never said Carr can not make those kind of throws. I said he has NOT attempted any deep passes up to that point in the preseason. How many deep routes do you run at full speed and turn around to watch Carr dump it off to the FB or RB in the flat? That is why I think Moulds looked like he was not full speed on the play until of course it was to late.

real
08-29-2006, 03:42 PM
No they dont, I never said Carr can not make those kind of throws. I said he has NOT attempted any deep passes up to that point in the preseason. How many deep routes do you run at full speed and turn around to watch Carr dump it off to the FB or RB in the flat? That is why I think Moulds looked like he was not full speed on the play until of course it was to late.

I think there is another explanation for Moulds not coming out of the blocks full speed...See the many post above^^^

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 03:46 PM
]']Said Moulds might missed a step and goes to say it was Carr's fault. Hrmmmm hook line and sinker. Goes to show you mention Carr and it's automatically his fault.

Is it Carr's fault too that the 6'3 Andre Johnson can't out jump a 5'8 second stringer for a perfectly placed ball? To boot AJ had inside position. AJ has to work on his game too.

Hope it gets better when it counts.

Carr put AJ in a bad position. There was no reason to put so much air under that ball...... that was a bad pass.

infantrycak
08-29-2006, 03:47 PM
That is why I think Moulds looked like he was not full speed on the play until of course it was to late.

Moulds is way too professional and hard a worker to be taking plays off already.

Oh and your 3 yds off characterization is pure hyperbole--that ball was within 12 to 18 inches of Moulds' hands.

infantrycak
08-29-2006, 03:49 PM
Carr put AJ in a bad position. There was no reason to put so much air under that ball...... that was a bad pass.

Nope--sorry. Just went back and watched that play 3 or 4 times. AJ misjudged that ball. You can see he goes from a full stride to several short stutter steps apparently having judged it to be shorter than it was. He needed to continue one or two more full strides and he and the ball would have arrived together.

real
08-29-2006, 03:53 PM
Nope--sorry. Just went back and watched that play 3 or 4 times. AJ misjudged that ball. You can see he goes from a full stride to several short stutter steps apparently having judged it to be shorter than it was. He needed to continue one or two more full strides and he and the ball would have arrived together.

I'll add to that...He should have made the catch regardless...He got his hands on it....One on One coverage is supposed to be money...Carr is going to make some throws that aren't perfect...AJ is supposed to be a super star player...Well he's gonn have to start making some super star plays...:fireball:

Runner
08-29-2006, 03:54 PM
AJ misjudged that ball.

Crap. Do you think he still makes the 53 man roster?

HOU-TEX
08-29-2006, 03:55 PM
Crap. Do you think he still makes the 53 man roster?


LOL. No kidding! Some of these threads get to be baffling after a while.:shoot:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Runner again.

infantrycak
08-29-2006, 03:56 PM
Crap. Do you think he still makes the 53 man roster?

LOL--yup.

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 03:56 PM
Nope--sorry. Just went back and watched that play 3 or 4 times. AJ misjudged that ball. You can see he goes from a full stride to several short stutter steps apparently having judged it to be shorter than it was. He needed to continue one or two more full strides and he and the ball would have arrived together.

I'm not arguing that..... AJ miss judged the ball.

I don't believe that is where the ball should have been though.

The replay clearly shows AJ fading back into the Corner, when he had inside position. & they were so far past the linebackers, & there was no safety anywhere on the screen(he might have been lurking outside the viewing angle) that ball should have come to AJ on a tighter line, towards the inside of the field, since AJ had the inside position.

real
08-29-2006, 03:58 PM
I'm not arguing that..... AJ miss judged the ball.

I don't believe that is where the ball should have been though.

The replay clearly shows AJ fading back into the Corner, when he had inside position. & they were so far past the linebackers, & there was no safety anywhere on the screen(he might have been lurking outside the viewing angle) that ball should have come to AJ on a tighter line, towards the inside of the field, since AJ had the inside position.

Both of them Made mistakes...AJ still should have caught that ball though...

Runner
08-29-2006, 03:59 PM
LOL. No kidding! Some of these threads get to be baffling after a while.:shoot:

LOL--yup.

Good. I like Dre.

infantrycak
08-29-2006, 03:59 PM
I'm not arguing that..... AJ miss judged the ball.

I don't believe that is where the ball should have been though.

The replay clearly shows AJ fading back into the Corner, when he had inside position. & they were so far past the linebackers, & there was no safety anywhere on the screen(he might have been lurking outside the viewing angle) that ball should have come to AJ on a tighter line, towards the inside of the field, since AJ had the inside position.

You're missing the point--if AJ runs that route thru more, the ball arrives just fine with AJ's much bigger body shielding the ball from the DB.

Some of this criticism cracks me up. Carr finally puts some air under both his long passes that game and folks want it thrown tighter.

kingh99
08-29-2006, 04:01 PM
A great pass is when it hits your recievers in the hands not 3 yards in front of the guy. So if Carr overthrows every pass from here on out we will have a great year? He overthrew his reciever. Dude you listen to that vomit comming out of Sterling Sharps mouth if you want to. The only positive out of that throw was that 1 it was not intercepted and 2 Carr finally threw one deep!

You mean he's four years into this and doesn't have the rapport or is unable to communicate how they will work together? On another play he threw it up to AJ and the cornerback timed it better and came over the top of AJ to knock it out. Why do other team's QB seem to be able to pull off the intentional underthrow play? I get the feeling Carr isn't all that bright or communicative. I get the feeling he's been overcoached by his dad.

Example of why I think his dad is his main coach and has different goals from his actual main coach (Kubiak). I think his dad has told David a QB has never lost a job taking the sack. He has probably told David he won't be demoted as long as he doesn't throw INT's. You see it in how Carr plays. He takes the sack first, and almost never forces it. His little birdie (dad's words of wisdom) is talking in his ear every time, take the sack, you won't get canned.

Carr is the starter. He plays to not make mistakes. Rosenfeld is the backup. He takes chances to impress. Nothing new under the sun. It's going to be a long season of second guessing I fear. Carr needs to play up.

So far he's playing like Trent Dilfer.

Lucky
08-29-2006, 04:02 PM
You guys must be hallucinating. There can be no deep pass to Moulds (or AJ) because Carr never throws deep. Trust me, I have several threads in this forum to back me up.

(Someone please negative rep me for posting in this thread. Spare the rod, spoil the poster.)

real
08-29-2006, 04:03 PM
You mean he's four years into this and doesn't have the rapport or is unable to communicate how they will work together? On another play he threw it up to AJ and the cornerback timed it better and came over the top of AJ to knock it out. Why do other team's QB seem to be able to pull off the intentional underthrow play? I get the feeling Carr isn't all that bright or communicative. I get the feeling he's been overcoached by his dad.

Example of why I think his dad is his main coach and has different goals from his actual main coach (Kubiak). I think his dad has told David a QB has never lost a job taking the sack. He has probably told David he won't be demoted as long as he doesn't throw INT's. You see it in how Carr plays. He takes the sack first, and almost never forces it. His little birdie (dad's words of wisdom) is talking in his ear every time, take the sack, you won't get canned.

Carr is the starter. He plays to not make mistakes. Rosenfeld is the backup. He takes chances to impress. Nothing new under the sun. It's going to be a long season of second guessing I fear. Carr needs to play up.

So far he's playing like Trent Dilfer.

Get...outta....town...

real
08-29-2006, 04:06 PM
You're missing the point--if AJ runs that route thru more, the ball arrives just fine with AJ's much bigger body shielding the ball from the DB.

Some of this criticism cracks me up. Carr finally puts some air under both his long passes that game and folks want it thrown tighter.

I think you and TKyss are right...Carr could have thrown the ball better to give AJ an easier catch and possibly a run after....at the same time, that ball was catch-able...

HOU-TEX
08-29-2006, 04:07 PM
You guys must be hallucinating. There can be no deep pass to Moulds (or AJ) because Carr never throws deep. Trust me, I have several threads in this forum to back me up.

(Someone please negative rep me for posting in this thread. Spare the rod, spoil the poster.)

Well, now you can add "it's Davids Dads fault" to the list. LOL, outstanding!

Ibar_Harry
08-29-2006, 04:40 PM
Nope--sorry. Just went back and watched that play 3 or 4 times. AJ misjudged that ball. You can see he goes from a full stride to several short stutter steps apparently having judged it to be shorter than it was. He needed to continue one or two more full strides and he and the ball would have arrived together.

Infantrycak I have said for a long time AJ does not have the hands to be called an elite WR like TO and some others. He is a very good receiver in a lot of situations, but he simply isn't the go to kind of guy Moulds was and still is at times. If you look at a lot of the training camp film of Moulds and AJ, you certainly see a big time difference. Usually any ball near Moulds is caught, but that's not true with AJ. If you remember before the draft that was the one downside to AJ. Hands is just not something you teach. If my life depended on it, I could not catch a ball. It has to do with my vision.

AJ is big and strong and once he has the ball he can make a lot of things happen. However, the big if, is can he get the ball. Again, I'm talking about elite top all pro, not just an outstanding receiver. The same can be said for Carr so far.

What I find interesting so far is the relatively little use of Walters during the preseason. How is he going to fit in this picture?

infantrycak
08-29-2006, 04:52 PM
Infantrycak I have said for a long time AJ does not have the hands to be called an elite WR like TO and some others.

Yeah you have said it a bunch and even though corrected you keep using the worst analogy for your case--TO. TO has had a long record and reputation of having spotty hands. AJ drops at a lower rate than TO. Over the last 3 years TO has dropped 6.3% of passes directed at him vs. 5.1% dropped by AJ. The biggest thing separating TO and AJ is a QB slinging the ball downfield at TO consistantly.

Hands is just not something you teach.

Torry Holt would vehemently disagree with you and the drop off due to practice between year 1 and 2 for AJ would also belie that assertion.

JDizzle
08-29-2006, 05:07 PM
Infantrycak I have said for a long time AJ does not have the hands to be called an elite WR like TO and some others. He is a very good receiver in a lot of situations, but he simply isn't the go to kind of guy Moulds was and still is at times. If you look at a lot of the training camp film of Moulds and AJ, you certainly see a big time difference. Usually any ball near Moulds is caught, but that's not true with AJ. If you remember before the draft that was the one downside to AJ. Hands is just not something you teach. If my life depended on it, I could not catch a ball. It has to do with my vision.

AJ is big and strong and once he has the ball he can make a lot of things happen. However, the big if, is can he get the ball. Again, I'm talking about elite top all pro, not just an outstanding receiver. The same can be said for Carr so far.

What I find interesting so far is the relatively little use of Walters during the preseason. How is he going to fit in this picture?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/jmott1/nfl1588_lower.jpg
Terrible.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/jmott1/nfl1460_lower.jpg
Unreal, can't believe we drafted him at #3.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v373/jmott1/nfl157e_lower.jpg
What is this Mr. Frying Pan Hands?

run-david-run
08-29-2006, 05:51 PM
At least this thread is not quite as inane as the Corey Bradford 4th down drop against the Jags, now that was a stupid thread, this is getting there though

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 06:45 PM
Both of them Made mistakes...AJ still should have caught that ball though...

I agree with that...... I just don't like the throw... I believe a better pass would've been prudent.


You're missing the point--if AJ runs that route thru more, the ball arrives just fine with AJ's much bigger body shielding the ball from the DB.

Some of this criticism cracks me up. Carr finally puts some air under both his long passes that game and folks want it thrown tighter.

I'm not missing that point at all. I believe 8/10 times, AJ would've caught that ball.

& I'm not folks...... far as I know, I'm the only one with this opinion.

& I just rewatched the play where Moulds didn't catch the deep pass. It really looks like he was trying to lull the Corner to sleep, and sneak past him. David obviously thought he was going to put on the gas from the snap.

No one to fault on that play really...... that takes time.

infantrycak
08-29-2006, 09:46 PM
& I just rewatched the play where Moulds didn't catch the deep pass. It really looks like he was trying to lull the Corner to sleep, and sneak past him. David obviously thought he was going to put on the gas from the snap.

No one to fault on that play really...... that takes time.

And I agree with that primarily--don't know that Carr thought Moulds would hit it from the get go, but at least 1 or 2 steps earlier--that's all it would have taken.