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Marcus
08-28-2006, 09:16 AM
I know I'm going to get kicked in the teeth for starting this thread, but I seriously really do wonder if this guy is all that he's cracked up to be.

I mean, this guy is 6'3" at 220, and supposedly runs a 4.3, right?

So why is it that he never gets open on a deep route? It's taken for granted that he's Carr's primary receiver. Carr looks for him more than anyone else. How come he never gets separation? Chad Johnson does it for Carson Palmer. Marvin Harrison does it for Peyton Manning. TO does it for whoever the quarterback is. So does Randy Moss.

Double coverage is a non-starter here. All primary receivers are double covered. Not having a decent 2nd receiver is an excuse I take issue with also.

Is he just not that quick? I'd love to see what his time in the short shuttle was in the combine, as compared to his 40 time.

And what about jump balls? Why is that when Carr goes deep to AJ, it's always a jumpball with the cornerback who is covering like a blanket? Again, no separation. But even then, when you have a 6'3" going up against a 5'8" in those situations, like last night, you'd think there would be better results.

Carr gets a lot of money, and right now he's not earning it, but I don't think AJ is earning those big bucks either. I expect more production from such an 'elite' receiver. Right now, I think he's overrated.

Texas
08-28-2006, 09:17 AM
AJ probably doesnt expect it much

gtexan02
08-28-2006, 09:20 AM
He played like his hype in 2005. He was getting separation, averaging over 5 yards after each catch, and making jump balls routinely. Last year he was slowed by injury and playcalling. Give him time to re-aquaint himself with the offense, and then judge him. He hasn't had too many throws to him early in the preseason

SESupergenius
08-28-2006, 09:20 AM
I tend to agree. This is going back to last year as well. Where is his big play ability. Time and time again you see WR make big plays because either the ball is throw with pinpoint accuracy and the WR makes a great catch, or the WR adjusts to the ball when covered. I am not seeing that out of AJ. No way a guy 5'8 should be out leaping Andre Johnson. No way. He did make a clutch slant 3rd down catch, but other than that I am not that impressed with his play making capabilities.

HOOK'EM
08-28-2006, 09:21 AM
Remember at the probowl a couple years ago, he came in 2nd in the fastest man competition.

texan279
08-28-2006, 09:22 AM
I've been saying this for two seasons now but most didn't want to hear it or even think about the possibility...

Cjeremy635
08-28-2006, 09:22 AM
I think he just needs to learn to be more physical. He has to learn to use his hands and long arms for seperation or he will never get open. That is the difference with him and other top receivers. Unfortunately, we got Shanahan's kid as a receivers coach, I don't know him or his credentials, but I think we need experienced coaches at every position at this point. If he doesn't learn to use his large frame for seperation, the CB's in this league will cover him like a blanket every time. All he needs is an extra yard of seperation that he can get from initial contact at the line of scrimmage. He needs to jam the opposing CB and damn near push them down. They're already back peddling so the momentum is in his favor. As long as it's within the legal 5 yards he has every right to be as physical as he wants. (or do it down the field but don't get caught) :spy:

gtexan02
08-28-2006, 09:22 AM
The NFL Fastest man competition has been the pinnacle for 2 of our players now:

AJ gets 2nd, falls flat the next year
Mathis hurts his foot

Its like the Texans madden curse. Lets just hope DRob doesn't make it to the probowl this year...wait, what?

nunusguy
08-28-2006, 09:23 AM
I remember a couple of tremendous jumping catchs AJ made back in '04.
One against the Chiefs and one in the EZ against I think the Vikings ?
He should have had that ball last night when he had only one-on-one coverage by the little 5' 8" Broncos DB. Frankly, AJ went up for that ball like
he had lead in his tail. Hopefully, it was just a presason effort and not what we'd see from him in the regular season.

Runner
08-28-2006, 09:24 AM
Frankly, AJ went up for that ball like
he had lead in his tail. Hopefully, it was just a presason effort and not what we'd see from him in the regular season.

I thought he was off balance and didn't really get his feet under him.

real
08-28-2006, 09:26 AM
A.J needs to step his game up.....

Hulk75
08-28-2006, 09:30 AM
Dre is fine, but on the deep ball, he has got to use his vert to get that ball.

Thats him he has got to get that ball.

jerek
08-28-2006, 09:30 AM
I thought he was off balance and didn't really get his feet under him.

Wow, was it so difficult to see? He was friggin off balance; he botched one reception, let the guy be for it.

Andre is like anybody else in the offense; adjusting to a new scheme. He and DC need a little time to rediscover themselves now. IMO Andre is TO without the attitude.

You people slay me.

HOU-TEX
08-28-2006, 09:34 AM
Wow, was it so difficult to see? He was friggin off balance; he botched one reception, let the guy be for it.

Andre is like anybody else in the offense; adjusting to a new scheme. He and DC need a little time to rediscover themselves now. IMO Andre is TO without the attitude.

You people slay me.

No slaying here. I agree with you. If DC settles down, he'd be even better. Andre is bigger than TO too.:redtowel:

Marcus
08-28-2006, 09:35 AM
IMO Andre is TO without the attitude.

And you say that people slay YOU?:rolleyes:

Runner
08-28-2006, 09:37 AM
Wow, was it so difficult to see?

Apparently so. I think that single play is being over analyzed. Dre had better push for his 100 receptions this year though. I know he wants them.

Honoring Earl 34
08-28-2006, 09:38 AM
The previous staff drafted a race horse and turned him into a plow mule . AJ will get open deep when the Texans run play action after getting 4.5 yds a pop .

texan279
08-28-2006, 09:39 AM
AJ=TO? :ok:

TEXANRED
08-28-2006, 09:42 AM
I know I'm going to get kicked in the teeth for starting this thread, but I seriously really do wonder if this guy is all that he's cracked up to be.

I mean, this guy is 6'3" at 220, and supposedly runs a 4.3, right?

So why is it that he never gets open on a deep route? It's taken for granted that he's Carr's primary receiver. Carr looks for him more than anyone else. How come he never gets separation? Chad Johnson does it for Carson Palmer. Marvin Harrison does it for Peyton Manning. TO does it for whoever the quarterback is. So does Randy Moss.

Double coverage is a non-starter here. All primary receivers are double covered. Not having a decent 2nd receiver is an excuse I take issue with also.

Is he just not that quick? I'd love to see what his time in the short shuttle was in the combine, as compared to his 40 time.

And what about jump balls? Why is that when Carr goes deep to AJ, it's always a jumpball with the cornerback who is covering like a blanket? Again, no separation. But even then, when you have a 6'3" going up against a 5'8" in those situations, like last night, you'd think there would be better results.

Carr gets a lot of money, and right now he's not earning it, but I don't think AJ is earning those big bucks either. I expect more production from such an 'elite' receiver. Right now, I think he's overrated.

You won't get kicked from me. I have been saying that for a while. AJ IMO has played like an average #1 or a top #2 thus far in his career. 6'3 220 and getting out muscled by 5'8 180? To add insult to injury, buy a CB that isn't anything special.

AJ needs to learn to be more physical and not get out muscled. He needs to learn to get separation from the defender. By no means is AJ an elite receiver yet. This is his fourth year, but like Carr, is learning a different system. AJ and Carr have 0 chemistry together and never look like they are on the same page.

That is what I was complaining about during the off season. Instead of him being in Miami he needed to be here with his QB building a relationship together. Chad Johnson used to sleep at the facility and hangs out with Palmer and Manning and Harrison are in each others heads at all times.

Although I will say this, I saw AJ on one of his completions break his route and come back to the ball. I don't recall seeing that the first four years.

In an indirect way Carr and AJ holds each others futures in there hands. Both of them are going to have to do a better job of helping out one another if they are going to stay Houston Texans.

But that is just my opinion.

jerek
08-28-2006, 09:45 AM
Apparently you people forget that a receiver needs his QB to get him the ball. Otherwise, we might as well put the best blocker we can find out there and pay him 150k a year.

How you know that Andre "never creates any separation" or "never gets open on a deep route" is beyond me, since prior to this season, the telecast was focused squarely on David Carr getting sacked in the pocket. This year, Carr has thrown a lot of short passes; either by design of offense, or unwillingness to test the long ball. I'd go primarily with (a) though clearly it is some of (b), but that is more an indictment of David Carr having nerves than it is his belief in Andre's skill.

If you'll remember the Jacksonville home game last year (might be asking a bit much, since people on this board routinely use qualifiers such as "never" -- meaning, never this game, or never this quarter -- Carr hit Andre on a deep post across the middle; plenty of separation, beautiful ball, easy TD. Andre screwed up his jump of the ball last night, but cut him a break for pete's sake; not everyone makes every play perfectly.

Andre is long on talent and upside and I think he is poised to have a breakout year. The T.O. comparison stems from their obvious similarities in physical gifts. Talk about cutting him if you'd like, but barring injury, I'll still be here for you to kiss my feet and ask forgiveness when the season's up.

LBC_Justin
08-28-2006, 09:50 AM
last year the Texans never really threw deep. It was the system they ran. If at the end of this season AJ does not rebound to his old form, then I would start asking questions.

I am willing to give the guy a chance before I become part of any lynch mob.

regarding getting out jumped by the guy who is 5'8"....if you watch the replay AJ was off balance and wasn't in position to really go up and get it.

texan279
08-28-2006, 09:50 AM
I don't think anyone is ready to cut AJ, I think people are just saying he is not playing up to his ability and not earning his big contract, the same thing a lot of people say about Carr. And it doesn't matter if Carr is throwing short passes for whatever reason, elite WR's make plays/gain yards after the catch.

jerek
08-28-2006, 09:53 AM
I don't think anyone is ready to cut AJ, I think people are just saying he is not playing up to his ability and not earning his big contract, the same thing a lot of people say about Carr. And it doesn't matter if Carr is throwing short passes for whatever reason, elite WR's make plays/gain yards after the catch.

My problem is they're saying that after three preseason games (6 quarters) and specifically some of them after one botched catch.

Honoring Earl 34
08-28-2006, 09:53 AM
If AJ was on the Bengals last year with Palmer who throws the best long ball in the game ... he would be a no doubt pro-bowler . If Chad Johnson was a Texan , he'd be a talented WR who has'nt reached his potential .

powerfuldragon
08-28-2006, 09:54 AM
Its like the Texans madden curse. Lets just hope DRob doesn't make it to the probowl this year...wait, what?

Basing my assumptions on what i've seen from our secondary thusfar, you won't have to worry about that.

texan279
08-28-2006, 09:55 AM
My problem is they're saying that after three preseason games (6 quarters) and specifically some of them after one botched catch.

And some are saying the same about Carr after 3 preseason games. I have already said myself I am giving the entire team the entire season to see what they can do due to the new coaches, players, schemes, etc. I've also always said to people who want to throw Carr under the bus for "underperforming" and "not earning his paycheck" that they better throw AJ under that bus too.

jerek
08-28-2006, 09:58 AM
And some are saying the same about Carr after 3 preseason games. I have already said myself I am giving the entire team the entire season to see what they can do due to the new coaches, players, schemes, etc. I've also always said to people who want to throw Carr under the bus for "underperforming" and "not earning his paycheck" that they better throw AJ under that bus too.

Problem is we're on the same bandwagon here. Way too early to affirmatively know anything on just about any one player; Seth Wand has shown more longevity this preseason than I ever predicted he would. I still think Spencer ultimately gets the nod but at this point the jury should remain out on just about everybody.

texan279
08-28-2006, 09:59 AM
Problem is we're on the same bandwagon here. Way too early to affirmatively know anything on just about any one player; Seth Wand has shown more longevity this preseason than I ever predicted he would. I still think Spencer ultimately gets the nod but at this point the jury should remain out on just about everybody.

Yep, I myself am not ready to thorw anyone under the bus for any reason just yet.

Yankee_In_TX
08-28-2006, 10:03 AM
Apparently you people forget that a receiver needs his QB to get him the ball.

How you know that Andre "never creates any separation" or "never gets open on a deep route" is beyond me, since prior to this season, the telecast was focused squarely on David Carr getting sacked in the pocket.

Has everyone forgotten 2004? The excitment of him going up for a long ball in double coverage and coming down with it?

2005 he was hurt, the D Line was gimpy, and Carr stunk.

2006, ummm, how many balls have been tossed his way?

We've seen his stuff, but last year he was injured and the team stunk. I don't get this thread...

Htown34s
08-28-2006, 10:03 AM
All I have to say is that if Carr doesn't pull it together soon AJ won't be here after his contract ends. Heck, he may even demand a trade before then.

TEXANRED
08-28-2006, 10:21 AM
Wow, was it so difficult to see? He was friggin off balance; he botched one reception, let the guy be for it..

More than just one botched catch in pre-season. Its been three years of botched catches and end zone drops and not getting separation.

Andre is like anybody else in the offense; adjusting to a new scheme. He and DC need a little time to rediscover themselves now. IMO Andre is TO without the attitude.

You people slay me.

I don't agree with the TO but everything else. He is in a new system, but like TO says, an in is an in, an out is an out, and a post is still a post.

Your in the NFL. Everyone can catch and run fast. Even the #4 receiver. Its what you do extra that separates you from every one else. The Harrison's, the TO's, the Rice's, the Johnson's. Those are elite receivers. What did they all have in common? They all give 100% on every play regardless of who's # is called. If the ball is in the air they have the attitude of its no one else's but there's. I don't see that from Johnson. He takes plays off. He trots or jogs. I don't see that fiery "Give me that ball" and rip the ball from the air that the great receivers have.

As I said in a previous post, if this team is going to be successful Carr and Johnson are going to have to build some sort of chemistry together. There Fates lay with one another.

Its not a coincidence that Carr's best year is also Johnson's pro bowl year.

Honoring Earl 34
08-28-2006, 10:36 AM
Anybody remember TO as a 49er ? He was just OK the first three years and then he took off . Anybody who's been on the Texans for over two years ... you almost have to discount their experience and clean the slate .

thunderkyss
08-28-2006, 10:45 AM
Apparently you people forget that a receiver needs his QB to get him the ball.

How you know that Andre "never creates any separation" or "never gets open on a deep route" is beyond me, since prior to this season, the telecast was focused squarely on David Carr getting sacked in the pocket. This year, Carr has thrown a lot of short passes; either by design of offense, or unwillingness to test the long ball. I'd go primarily with (a) though clearly it is some of (b), but that is more an indictment of David Carr having nerves than it is his belief in Andre's skill.


I totally agree on this one. Imagine you sprinting your but off, and everytime you turn around with your hands up for the ball, you see the ball has already been dumped off......


Every now and then, you'll see that stutter step we saw Moulds do when he didn't catch that deep bomb, "Oh..... he is throwing to me"

But If this is the case, I agree 100% they are both professionals, and should give 100% every play, regardless of t he QBs tendancies...... you want your QB to trust that you'll be there, then you need to be there.

hopefully, they were in, "It's just preseason" mode, and we won't see that crap come September.

texan279
08-28-2006, 10:55 AM
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but isn't the offense Kubiak runs more of a west coast style offense?

Vinny
08-28-2006, 10:57 AM
Its tough to judge our first string wr's when Carr is so awful. This is gonna be a long year.

TexansFanatic
08-28-2006, 11:06 AM
Its tough to judge our first string wr's when Carr is so awful. This is gonna be a long year.

God, I hate to finally admit it but Carr just doesn't look very good.....It was impossible to make that call his first 4 years with the horrible coaching and lack of talent around him. But the time for excuses is over and it's pretty clear now---Carr is simply not very good.

TEXANRED
08-28-2006, 11:27 AM
Its tough to judge our first string wr's when Carr is so awful. This is gonna be a long year.

God, I hate to finally admit it but Carr just doesn't look very good.....It was impossible to make that call his first 4 years with the horrible coaching and lack of talent around him. But the time for excuses is over and it's pretty clear now---Carr is simply not very good.

Oh come on you two. Remember Carr is learning a new system as well. You can't undo 4 years in 3 months. Carr has looked decent but not terrific. The same for AJ.

AJ needs Carr and Carr needs AJ. Pure and simple. The thing you can judge AJ on is when you get out played for the ball, drop the ball, and can never get open.

Sage didn't look any better last night either. Where are all the "Sage should start" guys. He looked like a chump against 2 and 3 stringers. That is just a tough D.

Vinny, tad bit surprised you would come right out and say something like that. You complain when you get flamed and say you are not a Carr hater but then you say "Carr is awful." Now what do you think is about to happen?

Blake
08-28-2006, 11:35 AM
Not trying to get off track here. But I agree that Carr looked awful last night. His numbers are misleading, and his determination to NOT throw the deep ball, even when he has ample time is trying at times.

Andre should have had that jump ball though. Single coverage against smally mcsmallster. Ill take AJ everytime. Except last night...

Chance_C
08-28-2006, 11:40 AM
Oh come on you two. Remember Carr is learning a new system as well. You can't undo 4 years in 3 months. Carr has looked decent but not terrific. The same for AJ

Well, I'll tell ya what. I'm really looking forward to seeing Carr have a good game. I've been about as patient as I can be. I've never called for his head, and I'm not starting that yet. But I'll be ecstatic when we can come on here on Monday morning and talk about the good game that DC had. There are no more excuses for him, it's either put up or shut up. He's been working under Kubiak's "qb friendly" offense through all of the OTA's, the training camp and three preseason games. By God, I'm ready to see some results.

Oh, and right now I would much rather have Matt Leinhart or Jay Cutler. Come on David, I can't believe I just said that, but I am ready to see some results.

Edited to add that I am sick and tired of DECENT.

texan279
08-28-2006, 11:42 AM
Not trying to get off track here. But I agree that Carr looked awful last night. His numbers are misleading, and his determination to NOT throw the deep ball, even when he has ample time is trying at times.

Andre should have had that jump ball though. Single coverage against smally mcsmallster. Ill take AJ everytime. Except last night...

If Kubiak is running the offense I think he is running, you are not going to see a lot of deep balls thrown.

Vinny
08-28-2006, 11:44 AM
Vinny, tad bit surprised you would come right out and say something like that. You complain when you get flamed and say you are not a Carr hater but then you say "Carr is awful." Now what do you think is about to happen?Carr has played awful and I just tell it how I see it and don't worry that I hurt the homers feelings. I complain when I talk about football and people talk about me...that's what I complain about.

Carr has converted ONE 3rd down in 3 preseason games. I think that is awful. You may think there is "potential" to convert more than one....I see it as a broken glass...and you see it full of kool aide. This forum is a place to share our perceptions. I share mine with you but I don't expect personal attacks when I share mine.

eriadoc
08-28-2006, 11:46 AM
In 2004, Andre had worked on his hands and appeared to be past the drops. In 2005, he was back to having the dropsies. He dropped an easy one versus the Rams last week. All receivers drop balls, but AJ has dropped too many easy ones in the past. We'll see how he does this year, but he needs to get back to 2004 form.

Chance_C
08-28-2006, 11:47 AM
0 freaking td's in the preseason either....I think the play calling last night was conservative on both teams, but I can't help but notice how the playbook seems a little more open when Sage comes in. I'm definately not saying that Sage is the answer, but I'm ready for David to step it up.

Double Barrel
08-28-2006, 11:58 AM
If AJ was on the Bengals last year with Palmer who throws the best long ball in the game ... he would be a no doubt pro-bowler . If Chad Johnson was a Texan , he'd be a talented WR who has'nt reached his potential .

I agree. But I'd also add that if Carson Palmer was a Texan last year, people would be thinking he sucked, too.

Vinny
08-28-2006, 11:59 AM
I agree. But I'd also add that if Carson Palmer was a Texan last year, people would be thinking he sucked, too.I doubt that. I don't think that you can coach up Brian Griese to become John Elway....no matter how much you try. You are what you are.

chuckm
08-28-2006, 12:00 PM
I agree. But I'd also add that if Carson Palmer was a Texan last year, people would be thinking he sucked, too.


I'll go you one better ..... if Palmer was a Texan for the last 4 years, he'd be wearing at least one knee brace .... oh wait, nevermind

Double Barrel
08-28-2006, 12:02 PM
I doubt that. I don't think that you can coach up Brian Griese to become John Elway....no matter how much you try. You are what you are.

But do you think that any QB would have been successful on the 2-14 Texans?

Notice I didn't put DC in a Bengals uni and say he would have succeeded. I'm not about to go there.

beerlover
08-28-2006, 12:07 PM
its evident that Kubiak is trying to make Carr an improved NFL QB & when he struggles takes the blame for conservative playcalling or whatever promising to make adjustments to help Carr become more successful the next game. here's one idea have him mix in some deep balls early with a more focused running game then come back underneath, down the middle and deep pitch outs (ala GreenBay) to Lundy.

tsip
08-28-2006, 12:13 PM
My problem is they're saying that after three preseason games (6 quarters) and specifically some of them after one botched catch.

never mind.................

tsip
08-28-2006, 12:21 PM
Oh come on you two. Remember Carr is learning a new system as well. You can't undo 4 years in 3 months. Carr has looked decent but not terrific. The same for AJ.

AJ needs Carr and Carr needs AJ. Pure and simple. The thing you can judge AJ on is when you get out played for the ball, drop the ball, and can never get open.

Sage didn't look any better last night either. Where are all the "Sage should start" guys. He looked like a chump against 2 and 3 stringers. That is just a tough D.

Vinny, tad bit surprised you would come right out and say something like that. You complain when you get flamed and say you are not a Carr hater but then you say "Carr is awful." Now what do you think is about to happen?


...and Cutler's a rookie and in a new system (to him), too...Leinert(sp) completed 12 passes in a row in his 2nd game with no training camp...

TEXANRED
08-28-2006, 01:23 PM
Carr has played awful and I just tell it how I see it and don't worry that I hurt the homers feelings. I complain when I talk about football and people talk about me...that's what I complain about.

Carr has converted ONE 3rd down in 3 preseason games. I think that is awful. You may think there is "potential" to convert more than one....I see it as a broken glass...and you see it full of kool aide. This forum is a place to share our perceptions. I share mine with you but I don't expect personal attacks when I share mine.
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060812_KC@HOU
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060819_HOU@STL
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060827_HOU@DEN

Through three pre-season games Carr has 29/44 for 250 yards 8.6 yards a catch with a 65% completion rate and 5 rushes for 25 yards for 5 yards a carry.

Carr played one series in the first game, two quarters the second and two plus one series the third. Effectively Carr has played one full game.

AJ thru three games, same amount of quarters, has 7 catches for 63 yards for 9 yards a catch.

AJ is accounting for around 25% of Carrs production.

By just looking at the stats this tells me one of two things, 1) short passing routes designed by the coaching staff constructed to keep the chains moving. 2) AJ is getting his touches but not turning it into anything big.

Carr has played solid through the pre-season. He has done everything the coaches have asked him to do. He has lead the team and kept the team from falling apart when things go wrong.

Also for the guys who point out Carr hasn't thrown any touchdowns, keep two things in mind, 1) Our running game is smoking right now and is scoring from anywhere on the field, 2) Our best receiver is averaging 9 yards a catch.
AJ does not need carr. As a matter of fact, he no doubt would love a different QB. Let me rephrase that...A QB.

Notice how Carrs and AJ's stats are tied to each other? AJ needs Carr as much as Carr needs AJ.

pittbull
08-28-2006, 01:51 PM
This is the worst thread I have ever read.. Anyone who knows football understands that there is a reason many are not able to reach their full potential. Johnson has been a stud since he got here, and due to being double and triple teamed most of the past two seasons, and an injury riddled one last year, his true talent has not been shown. Place Johnson in Indy, Cinci, Carolina, this guy is as dominant or more than the WR's on those respective units. Most experts, and I mean those who have played the game and discuss his talent, feel he is T.O. x 2, without the lip service. He's got unreal work ethic, fast, strong, great hands, and knows the pro style game, running in a pro system at Miami. Can he get better? Of course, who can't. He can make tougher catches, and run better routes, but it does come with time and experience. Not everyone has Peyton Manning throwing them pinpoint rockets every game. Not everyone has an offense designed around them...like Randy Moss or Terrell Owens. If you had a QB and O-Coordinator who was unable to get you the rock, for numerous reasons, you would be seen as not reaching your full potential too. Does Chad Johnson and Marvin Harrison have true #2 WR's?......Yes. Do other teams such as Carolina run a three WR set, to make sure Steve Smith does not get double teamed.....yes. The Texans have never tried to place an offense around Johnson, it's always been moving Johnson around a run-oriented system designed for a 4th round RB, that couldn't dream of having that much talent. And Yes, I'm talking about our beloved DD. Think about the game in depth, before looking at mere stats. Even Jerry Rice could not have looked good on this team the past couple of years. But don't worry Johnson doubters, word has it he loves FL anyway and the first chance he gets, may want to opt for FA and leave. Be happy for the things you have, support the players until they reach their potential, or you'll be mad their gone!:fireball: :bowser:

JDizzle
08-28-2006, 02:07 PM
AJ and Troy Smith in '07 baby.

Marcus
08-28-2006, 04:18 PM
It sure seems funny how everyone complained that Carr always locked in on AJ, and instead of looking for the 2nd receiver, always dumped it off to DD.

You'd think that all those times that Carr locked on him, AJ would have been open more times than he was. Oh, wait a minute . . . are we about to hear the double team excuse?

AJ had better show me something this year . . . I don't give a good ******* WHO the QB is. If you're an elite receiver, then play like an elite receiver.

bigtex77
08-28-2006, 04:24 PM
It sure seems funny how everyone complained that Carr always locked in on AJ, and instead of looking for the 2nd receiver, always dumped it off to DD.

You'd think that all those times that Carr locked on him, AJ would have been open more times than he was. Oh, wait a minute . . . are we about to hear the double team excuse?

AJ had better show me something this year . . . I don't give a good ******* WHO the QB is. If you're an elite receiver, then play like an elite receiver.

This post is funny, AJ will be fine.

kingh99
08-28-2006, 04:37 PM
I doubt that. I don't think that you can coach up Brian Griese to become John Elway....no matter how much you try. You are what you are.

And David's a guy who rarely sees separation. His receivers must go stir crazy. David Carr lacks all the intangibles. He lacks intelligence. It has to be that. Otherwise he would do stuff like underthrow the deep route to AJ like in last night's game. An underthrow is a sure catch. He has no chemistry with his team and he's been the man for 4 years. It's crazy. At the same time I can see why Kubes likes him. He'll take the sack over the int every time.

Maddict5
08-28-2006, 04:40 PM
i do agree that AJ is the golden boy of this MB and probably deserves more criticism, like carr, when it is deserved....i remember, especialy in the st louis game (i think), carr threw it his way alot without too much success so its not like hes not being given opportunities..he should have made that catch last nite also from what ive heard.....

i still think both carr and aj will still have good seasons because i dont think we've been very creative at all this pre-season..when the reg. season starts i think we'll have more of a downfield game...as denver always have- running oriented but will take shots off PA

TEXANRED
08-28-2006, 04:48 PM
AJ's stats would be vaslty higher with someone else (someone with NFL caliber QB credentials) at QB.
Well since this isn't the "What if" universe from Marvel comics we won't know now will we?

So basically what you are saying is if a QB puts up 250 yards 65% completion and has five rushes for 25 yards(mind you he has only had one game worth of playing time), he is a horrible QB and should be dumped. Where as the top paid receiver who catches 7 for 63 yards should immediately go to the hall of fame.

I am going to add this to every AJ post in hopes it will sink in, Carr and AJ are connected to each other. Period. A receiver could either make a QB look great or like a fool and the same for a QB. Its a team sport. Our starting O-line is looked really good against two very good D-lines with the Rams and Broncos with picking up the blitz and zone blocking. The running backs have some work to do when picking up the blitz and our receivers still have some work to do to get on the same page as Carr.

All and all, a lot of folks have been saying 8-8. We look like an 8-8 team right now. This is what one looks like.

tsip
08-28-2006, 05:15 PM
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060812_KC@HOU
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060819_HOU@STL
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/live/NFL_20060827_HOU@DEN

Through three pre-season games Carr has 29/44 for 250 yards 8.6 yards a catch with a 65% completion rate and 5 rushes for 25 yards for 5 yards a carry.

Carr played one series in the first game, two quarters the second and two plus one series the third. Effectively Carr has played one full game.

AJ thru three games, same amount of quarters, has 7 catches for 63 yards for 9 yards a catch.

AJ is accounting for around 25% of Carrs production.

By just looking at the stats this tells me one of two things, 1) short passing routes designed by the coaching staff constructed to keep the chains moving. 2) AJ is getting his touches but not turning it into anything big.

Carr has played solid through the pre-season. He has done everything the coaches have asked him to do. He has lead the team and kept the team from falling apart when things go wrong.

Also for the guys who point out Carr hasn't thrown any touchdowns, keep two things in mind, 1) Our running game is smoking right now and is scoring from anywhere on the field, 2) Our best receiver is averaging 9 yards a catch.


Notice how Carrs and AJ's stats are tied to each other? AJ needs Carr as much as Carr needs AJ.


...forget something? like getting the team into the end zone? How many points has the team scored during his 'full game/4 qtr scenario?' ...

run-david-run
08-28-2006, 05:35 PM
AJ's stats would be vaslty higher with someone else (someone with NFL caliber QB credentials) at QB.
Way to back it up! I hate it when people post 100% speculation. Guess what, he would have better stats if he did drop a pass, he would have better stats if we were a pass oriented offense, he would have better stats if he had a more agressive coach...

Texans86
08-28-2006, 05:59 PM
i still think both carr and aj will still have good seasons because i dont think we've been very creative at all this pre-season..when the reg. season starts i think we'll have more of a downfield game...as denver always have- running oriented but will take shots off PA

Yeah, ever since the first game I haven't heard much about the roll outs and the PA passes. Maybe I just missed them, but it sounds like Carr has been stuck in the pocket the last two games. It's possible that 90% of the playbook is still hidden. I'm still waiting the hear about that "lethal" crossing pattern between Carr and A.Johnson/Moulds. It was supposedly tearing our defense apart, but hasn't been seen in preseason. There's a lot missing right now that isn't adding up to me. The offensive mastermind might show himself in two weeks when we take on Philidelphia.

TEXANRED
08-28-2006, 07:18 PM
...forget something? like getting the team into the end zone? How many points has the team scored during his 'full game/4 qtr scenario?' ...
I covered that..................

Also for the guys who point out Carr hasn't thrown any touchdowns, keep two things in mind, 1) Our running game is smoking right now and is scoring from anywhere on the field, 2) Our best receiver is averaging 9 yards a catch

We are a run offense and guess what? We have scored T.D.'s, while Carr runs the first team, on run plays.

Remember AJ is responsible for a little more than 25% of Carr's completions and Carr has 0 T.D's. AJ has had the touches and his chance and the result for both players is a big ole goose egg.

On another note I say we start Lewis Sanders as our #1 b/c he has two touchdowns.

swtbound07
08-28-2006, 07:30 PM
WARNING! SARCASM BELOW! THE COMMENTS BELOW DO NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF THE SWTBOUND07 ORGANIZATION


Doesn't AJ still have one more year before he falls out of that "5 years to get it as an nfl starter" window?? Or does that only apply to the chosen DC...Sure lets dump Andre...he was only a pro-bowler. David Carr is such a brilliant qb that he can throw for 400 yard games without him!

TEXANRED
08-28-2006, 07:35 PM
WARNING! SARCASM BELOW! THE COMMENTS BELOW DO NOT REFLECT THE VIEWS OF THE SWTBOUND07 ORGANIZATION


Doesn't AJ still have one more year before he falls out of that "5 years to get it as an nfl starter" window?? Or does that only apply to the chosen DC...Sure lets dump Andre...he was only a pro-bowler. David Carr is such a brilliant qb that he can throw for 400 yard games without him!
For the record I keep saying that the success of Carr and A.J. are directly related.

Kaiser Toro
08-28-2006, 07:36 PM
On another note I say we start Lewis Sanders as our #1 b/c he has two touchdowns.

Master of Absurdity or straight loco? You be the judge. :fireball:

swtbound07
08-28-2006, 07:37 PM
For the record I keep saying that the success of Carr and A.J. are directly related.


Not if Carr is on the bench they aren't. Just for the record.

TEXANRED
08-28-2006, 07:39 PM
Master of Absurdity or straight loco? You be the judge. :fireball:
:) :francis:
Just keeping in line with some of the thread.

If there can be a start Sage thread why not a start Sanders thread?:chicken:

Kaiser Toro
08-28-2006, 07:41 PM
:) :francis:
Just keeping in line with some of the thread.

If there can be a start Sage thread why not a start Sanders thread?:chicken:

Survey says he is a CB? idonno:

TEXANRED
08-28-2006, 07:47 PM
Survey says he is a CB? idonno:
Survey says he is a CB? idonno:
Ha Ha...............how embarrassing.

Who the heck am I thinking of?

That guy from the arena league..............whats his name?

Derrick Lewis!!!!!!!!!!!

Lewis Sanders, Derrick Lewis. Same guy.:shoot:

Won't be the first time I have got someone's name wrong, won't be the last.:)

Wolf
08-28-2006, 07:48 PM
wow, October coming fast for the witch hunt

:rolleyes:

dat_boy_yec
08-28-2006, 08:34 PM
If AJ was on the Bengals last year with Palmer who throws the best long ball in the game ... he would be a no doubt pro-bowler . If Chad Johnson was a Texan , he'd be a talented WR who has'nt reached his potential .

WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! If Chad was a Texan he would spend alot of time with Carr gaining his trust and honing their skills together. Maybe he wouldn't be as prolific as he is in Cinci, but by the same token would A.J. be that much better production or playwise? I doubt it.

edo783
08-28-2006, 08:40 PM
AJ has been less than reliable and hasn't played to the level a #1 reciever should, but then practicaly no one on the team has played to the level that their particular position should.

Kaiser Toro
08-28-2006, 08:46 PM
AJ

First year plays with two QBs. Second year plays with Carr entire season and is an All-Pro. Third season is banged up and goes through dismal season along with team mates. Fourth pre season gets called out because he is guilty by association to public enemy #1.

dat_boy_yec
08-28-2006, 08:56 PM
IMO, I'm surprised it has taken this long to see a thread really critisizing A.J. so I'll throw in my 2 cents. Him practicing at Miami isn't cool it never has been I don't mind it because obviously he doesn't care what I think. Honestly though what is he going over there to practice. A WR's job is to be in sinc with his QB. So my question would be is Carr out there with A.J.? I don't think so. So what does this do, it means A.J. becomes accustomed to receiving passes from a different QB. He can't work on the timing with them, because if he does it'll throw his timing with Carr. He conditions his body to a different QB and then returns and has to readjust to Carr. What does that mean? Slow start. Get that of course as the season progresses their timing and whatnot improve, but those are things they should come out with from the get go. A.J. is an elite athlete he should know his QB and come out in sinc with him from the get go. It shouldn't take oh FOUR YEARS for him and Carr to get in rhythm. I can't lay all the blame on A.J. for this Carr should also initiate this, but there's already enough on Carr for me to add anything. Moulds comes in and in his first pre-season I am having trouble deciphering who has a better relationship with Carr, this should be clear, there should be no question. I regress, maybe I'm stupid, maybe I just can't see the benefit of a receiver training with everybody, but his QB. If so somebody please enlighten me on this. I'll quit harping on this for now and move on to my next critisism.

TEXANRED
08-28-2006, 09:00 PM
AJ

First year plays with two QBs. Second year plays with Carr entire season and is an All-Pro. Third season is banged up and goes through dismal season along with team mates. Fourth pre season gets called out because he is guilty by association to public enemy #1.
So let me see if I read this right.

Carr has best season in 04 and AJ goes to pro bowl. Post optimistic record of 7-9.

AJ gets hurt, Riley plays left tackle, Pendry offensive Co, go 2-14.

I can see where its all Carrs fault.

Its going to be a good year. If AJ stays healthy he gets 90 catches 1k yards and Carr throws for somewhere around 3500 yards.

8-8/9-7 thats what my magic 8 ball says. although I said 11-5 earlier in the year.

CaptainPatriot
08-28-2006, 09:00 PM
I know I'm going to get kicked in the teeth for starting this thread, but I seriously really do wonder if this guy is all that he's cracked up to be.

I mean, this guy is 6'3" at 220, and supposedly runs a 4.3, right?

So why is it that he never gets open on a deep route? It's taken for granted that he's Carr's primary receiver. Carr looks for him more than anyone else. How come he never gets separation? Chad Johnson does it for Carson Palmer. Marvin Harrison does it for Peyton Manning. TO does it for whoever the quarterback is. So does Randy Moss.

Double coverage is a non-starter here. All primary receivers are double covered. Not having a decent 2nd receiver is an excuse I take issue with also.

Is he just not that quick? I'd love to see what his time in the short shuttle was in the combine, as compared to his 40 time.

And what about jump balls? Why is that when Carr goes deep to AJ, it's always a jumpball with the cornerback who is covering like a blanket? Again, no separation. But even then, when you have a 6'3" going up against a 5'8" in those situations, like last night, you'd think there would be better results.

Carr gets a lot of money, and right now he's not earning it, but I don't think AJ is earning those big bucks either. I expect more production from such an 'elite' receiver. Right now, I think he's overrated.


you forgot to add..... stop calling end arounds for AJ he is not built for that. More of a straight line runner.I would like to see Sage throw to him on slant or skinny post and in stride.That is what he is built for. I Guess we will have to wait till DC is benched.

dat_boy_yec
08-28-2006, 09:08 PM
Another thing is the dropped balls. I mean c'mon he's supposed to be elite. This isn't something new and after all these yrs. he's still making drops. I don't know what the problem is, but dude needs to find a solution. I get so tired of hearing Carr isn't getting him the ball right, he throws horribly. Sorry to break it, but A.J. not having his balance can't be blamed on Carr. Sure all wide receivers drop some catches, but A.J. is called elite and he doesn't make elite catches. I was at the K.C. game and A.J. could have had that pass that was tipped by the LB had he really been elite. Someone else back me up on this, because the play wasn't shown on TV, but A.J. let a pass go through his hands in the endzone. I remember that play, because I was livid when I saw it. The ball went through his hands, because when it was coming at him it was a spiral and after it went through his hands it was wobbling. They may be connecting and being somewhat productive, but that's not the problem. The problem is how many drives, scores, highlights are left on the field because A.J. doesn't live up to his elite status. Don't get me wrong I love the guy and think he has tons of potential, but you gotta call it like you see it.

MrMeToo
08-28-2006, 09:53 PM
AJ is a beast. Carr sucks. People just need to admit it. If Johnson was on any other team, he would be considered the best receiver in the NFL. Some people said they are tired of people comlaing about Carr not getting him the ball, but the fact is it's true.

dat_boy_yec
08-28-2006, 09:56 PM
AJ is a beast. Carr sucks. People just need to admit it. If Johnson was on any other team, he would be considered the best receiver in the NFL. Some people said they are tired of people comlaing about Carr not getting him the ball, but the fact is it's true.

Then please explain all the balls A.J. had in his hands and dropped?

MrMeToo
08-28-2006, 09:56 PM
Then please explain all the balls A.J. had in his hands and dropped?

Yeah, Carr does no wrong I forgot.:rolleyes: That's why he is so respected around the league.

Divebomb
08-28-2006, 09:59 PM
First off, how can anyone say that AJ does not get seperation. If you are watching the game on the T.V. you can not even see down the field, and if you are at the game and focusing on AJ you would never make such a comment. AJ gets plenty of seperation, Carr just has not thrown the ball down field this preseason. Carr has the short ball syndrome.

MrMeToo
08-28-2006, 10:00 PM
First off, how can anyone say that AJ does not get seperation. If you are watching the game on the T.V. you can not even see down the field, and if you are at the game and focusing on AJ you would never make such a comment. AJ gets plenty of seperation, Carr just has not thrown the ball down field this preseason. Carr has the short ball syndrome.


Agreed.

Texans86
08-28-2006, 10:03 PM
Yeah, Carr does no wrong I forgot.:rolleyes: That's why he is so respected around the league.

Amazingly enough, he is fairly respected. Still not living up to potential around many circles. If he was let go at 10:01 PM (current time), he'd be getting phone calls before 10:05. The physical talent is there. He currently is making rookie mistakes right now. I'll take rookie mistakes again. It's a step forward from last year.

Texans86
08-28-2006, 10:05 PM
First off, how can anyone say that AJ does not get seperation. If you are watching the game on the T.V. you can not even see down the field, and if you are at the game and focusing on AJ you would never make such a comment. AJ gets plenty of seperation, Carr just has not thrown the ball down field this preseason. Carr has the short ball syndrome.

This brings about the same point I made earlier in the post. What happened to that crossing pattern some posters claimed would tear apart defenses this year? Are they just not showing it until the regular season? I want more bootlegs, crossing patterns and PA passes. Maybe in the regular season...

MrMeToo
08-28-2006, 10:07 PM
lol: Amazingly enough, he is fairly respected. Still not living up to potential around many circles. If he was let go at 10:01 PM (current time), he'd be getting phone calls before 10:05. The physical talent is there. He currently is making rookie mistakes right now. I'll take rookie mistakes again. It's a step forward from last year.
Wow.Are you serious? Rookie Mistakes?lol:

dat_boy_yec
08-28-2006, 10:11 PM
Yeah, Carr does no wrong I forgot.:rolleyes: That's why he is so respected around the league.

Carr makes mistakes. I'm not blind, but all I asked is that you explain A.J. dropping balls which were catchable.

Divebomb
08-28-2006, 10:15 PM
Carr makes mistakes. I'm not blind, but all I asked is that you explain A.J. dropping balls which were catchable.

Even Jerry Rice dropped alot of balls. He is human, it does happen.

WILLIEG
08-28-2006, 10:42 PM
Look guys, everything starts up front with our O-line. This is not intended to take Carr's side, but the man hasn't had the best O-line since entering the NFL. I hope that problen will be fixed this year, however, I believe we are still One piece away from a permanant solution at LT. If Carr can't be protected he will never have enough time to throw a deep route. It's diffently not AJ that is the problem. It's the O-line and Carr's trust in them in keeping him off his backside. It's going to take a while for him to develope this trust and even longer if the O-line can't protect his *** from getting sacked. Why do you think GK plans on rolling Carr out on bootlegs? Yes Carr can throw on the run, but that's not the REAL reason. It's because our O-line still is weak and your only as strong as your weakest link in the game of football. It would be nice to see Carr sit in the pocket like Palmer tonight and drill his WR's, but he doesn't have the time. It's only until he has this time in the pocket that he will be able to develop into a better QB and go through his reads instead of running to the sideline hoping to complete a pass to a WR destined to go out of bounds. AJ or Carr are not the problem at all guys!

dat_boy_yec
08-28-2006, 10:45 PM
Even Jerry Rice dropped alot of balls. He is human, it does happen.

Not as many and not as many of them were as easy to catch as some of the passes we've seen Andre drop. All I'm saying is that A.J. isn't living up to his elite status yet.

edo783
08-28-2006, 11:14 PM
Not as many and not as many of them were as easy to catch as some of the passes we've seen Andre drop. All I'm saying is that A.J. isn't living up to his elite status yet.

That's a fact. Very unreliable for a #1 WR.

Napa Auto Parts
08-28-2006, 11:20 PM
Even Jerry Rice dropped alot of balls. He is human, it does happen.




But jerry had Chumps throwing him the ball he would of been lucky to have a talented strong armed Gun Slinger like David Carr throwing them 3 to 7 yards Bombs we Love so much.:rofl: how dare we blame any short coming A.J has on David Carr he is clearly not to blame at all.






*Wondering how much Negative Rep i will get from the Carr Homers for this. LOL

bigtex77
08-29-2006, 07:26 AM
But jerry had Chumps throwing him the ball he would of been lucky to have a talented strong armed Gun Slinger like David Carr throwing them 3 to 7 yards Bombs we Love so much.:rofl: how dare we blame any short coming A.J has on David Carr he is clearly not to blame at all.






*Wondering how much Negative Rep i will get from the Carr Homers for this. LOL


So, which comedy club might we be seeing you at?

Marcus
08-29-2006, 09:19 AM
]']He got separation last game.
Really? Enlighten me.:challenge

I not saying that AJ is a stiff out there. I just want to know why such an elite receiver, supposedly the equal of T.O., Chad Johnson, Randy Moss, Harrison, and the like, was not open any time that Carr 'locked in on him' last year?

It's all I'm asking. I mean, if he was THAT much better than Corey Bradford last year, I sure didn't see it.

Yeah yeah . . the whole team played bad last year, Carr sucks, blah blah blah.

I'm just sayin . . . if Carr is expected to step it up this year, I expect a certain elite wide receiver to do the same.

I expect an elite receiver to do the remarkable highlight catch. I expect an elite receiver to get open and be available when Carr scrambles. I expect an elite receiver to adjust the ball. I expect an elite receiver to win the jumpballs. I expect an elite receiver to beat his man deep every once in a great while. I expect an elite receiver to show me something.

Kaiser Toro
08-29-2006, 09:23 AM
The best way to utilize AJ given our QB's strengths is to continue to throw the hitch and make AJ earn all of his yards. Everyone knows this is how most of the better WR's earn their paychecks. :rolleyes:

eriadoc
08-29-2006, 10:15 AM
Really? Enlighten me.:challenge

I not saying that AJ is a stiff out there. I just want to know why such an elite receiver, supposedly the equal of T.O., Chad Johnson, Randy Moss, Harrison, and the like, was not open any time that Carr 'locked in on him' last year?

It's all I'm asking. I mean, if he was THAT much better than Corey Bradford last year, I sure didn't see it.

Yeah yeah . . the whole team played bad last year, Carr sucks, blah blah blah.

I'm just sayin . . . if Carr is expected to step it up this year, I expect a certain elite wide receiver to do the same.

I expect an elite receiver to do the remarkable highlight catch. I expect an elite receiver to get open and be available when Carr scrambles. I expect an elite receiver to adjust the ball. I expect an elite receiver to win the jumpballs. I expect an elite receiver to beat his man deep every once in a great while. I expect an elite receiver to show me something.

I have to say, Marcus has a point. You can discount it all you want with the "Carr sucks" mantra, but that doesn't exonerate AJ by a long shot. There are plenty of cases in the past where a great WR has made a QB look good. That's not happening here in Houston.

If AJ really is elite, he needs to be doing the things Marcus stated. CJ made Kitna look good. Boldin and Fitzgerald made McCown look good last year. Chambers made Frerotte look good last year. Hell, even Elvis Grbac looked good for a while in SF, years ago. Yeah, Carr needs to step up. Take a step back from your blind hatred of Carr and realize that AJ does as well.

Vinny
08-29-2006, 10:17 AM
It's hard to make your qb look good when his best pass is the hitch pass

Kaiser Toro
08-29-2006, 10:22 AM
I have to say, Marcus has a point. You can discount it all you want with the "Carr sucks" mantra, but that doesn't exonerate AJ by a long shot. There are plenty of cases in the past where a great WR has made a QB look good. That's not happening here in Houston.

If AJ really is elite, he needs to be doing the things Marcus stated. CJ made Kitna look good. Boldin and Fitzgerald made McCown look good last year. Chambers made Frerotte look good last year. Hell, even Elvis Grbac looked good for a while in SF, years ago. Yeah, Carr needs to step up. Take a step back from your blind hatred of Carr and realize that AJ does as well.

But once again you make my point. Those QB's are making pennies on the dollar and allows you to spend that money on better linemen, TE's, FB's, etc. that help the passing game. This game is tied to a monetary value at each position for each unit.

AJ has played two full years one was his rookie year and the other was an All-Pro year. Makes total sense to dawg AJ for the Carr sympathizers while keeping their bubble boy safe from criticism.

Vinny
08-29-2006, 10:24 AM
AJ has played two full years one was his rookie year and the other was an All-Pro year. Makes total sense to dawg AJ for the Carr sympathizers while keeping their bubble boy safe from criticism.that's the rule of houstontexans.com. Only one guy gets 60+ starts to show his mad skillz. Everyone else better play better faster so Carr can hurry up and 'look good'.

eriadoc
08-29-2006, 10:30 AM
But once again you make my point. Those QB's are making pennies on the dollar and allows you to spend that money on better linemen, TE's, FB's, etc. that help the passing game. This game is tied to a monetary value at each position for each unit.

AJ has played two full years one was his rookie year and the other was an All-Pro year. Makes total sense to dawg AJ for the Carr sympathizers while keeping their bubble boy safe from criticism.

Not quite. I'm not exonerating Carr, either. The opportunities have ben there for AJ to do the things mentioned in Marcus' post, yet he hasn't done them very often at all. To evaluate the results of a play, a game, or a season, you have to take total team performance into account, but within that framework, you can evaluate individual responsibility. Carr has not lived up to his part, that's for sure. Now take that and put it to the side. Neither has AJ. It's not that hard to separate these things and try and view them objectively, but so many people can't get past the Carr debate on this board.

As for the money, I agree with your general premise about allocation and the problems that arise from that. However, McNair and Co. decide who gets paid what, not David Carr. See the Bush scenario for proof of that. If you have an issue with the money part of it, look to McNair and Co. If you have an issue with Carr not performing to the level that the coaches expect, then that's squarely on Carr. If you have a problem with Carr not playing up to the money level, then there's a bit of a gray area.

At any rate, I'll reiterate - I'm not exonerating Carr here; I am trying to keep the thread on topic, and that's AJ's performance relative to expectations.

infantrycak
08-29-2006, 10:32 AM
AJ has played two full years one was his rookie year and the other was an All-Pro year. Makes total sense to dawg AJ for the Carr sympathizers while keeping their bubble boy safe from criticism.

Who is keeping bubble boy safe? Is there some reason people can't expect everyone to play to their best ability? Carr absolutely has to regain his faith in the deep ball and take chances down field--no doubt an area of desparate need for improvement. That's half the equation. Once the ball leaves his hand, AJ and Moulds both should play at a pro-bowl level. I don't hold the Moulds play against him at all--that kind of play is a guess by both the QB and the WR and it was just short of working. The AJ play could have been run better--I'd bet he would say the same thing and has vowed to do better next time. It isn't unreasonable though to expect two pro-bowlers to make the most of the opportunities that come their way.

I would hope and assume Kubiak is sitting with Carr in a room looking at game film we can't see and telling Carr AJ is open enough here, throw the ball to his outside shoulder--trust him to make the play, etc. Carr has to unlock the Capers/Pendry padlock that is on his brain that wasn't there when he was tossing deep to Bradford and Lewis coming out of college. Pretty simple fact is if Bradford and Lewis could get open enough so can AJ and Moulds--Carr has to make the throws.

Kaiser Toro
08-29-2006, 10:34 AM
At any rate, I'll reiterate - I'm not exonerating Carr here; I am trying to keep the thread on topic, and that's AJ's performance relative to expectations.

Fine then take Carr out of the equation. If someone said to you that after three years AJ would have an All-Pro year under his belt after being injured one of those years and not playing the whole season, would that be a reasonable expectation for you given how most WR draft picks normally do not give you ROI until years three and four?

Kaiser Toro
08-29-2006, 10:37 AM
Who is keeping bubble boy safe? Is there some reason people can't expect everyone to play to their best ability? Carr absolutely has to regain his faith in the deep ball and take chances down field--no doubt an area of desparate need for improvement. That's half the equation. Once the ball leaves his hand, AJ and Moulds both should play at a pro-bowl level. I don't hold the Moulds play against him at all--that kind of play is a guess by both the QB and the WR and it was just short of working. The AJ play could have been run better--I'd bet he would say the same thing and has vowed to do better next time. It isn't unreasonable though to expect two pro-bowlers to make the most of the opportunities that come their way.

They were the first two deep balls in a long time against an opposing defense. You look at the game thread and I commended DC for each throw. Do not box me in as the ultimate Carr hater. I have been consistent on measuring Carr against Carr.

infantrycak
08-29-2006, 10:40 AM
They were the first two deep balls in a long time against an opposing defense. You look at the game thread and I commended DC for each throw. Do not box me in as the ultimate Carr hater. I have been consistent on measuring Carr against Carr.

Where did I say anything about you being a Carr hater? You were acting though like anyone he criticized AJ or Moulds had to be a Carr lover.

Carr has thrown 3 deep balls this preseason--there was also the one tipped by the KC LB which would almost certainly have been a TD to AJ.

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 10:52 AM
I have to say, Marcus has a point. You can discount it all you want with the "Carr sucks" mantra, but that doesn't exonerate AJ by a long shot. There are plenty of cases in the past where a great WR has made a QB look good. That's not happening here in Houston.

If AJ really is elite, he needs to be doing the things Marcus stated. CJ made Kitna look good. Boldin and Fitzgerald made McCown look good last year. Chambers made Frerotte look good last year. Hell, even Elvis Grbac looked good for a while in SF, years ago. Yeah, Carr needs to step up. Take a step back from your blind hatred of Carr and realize that AJ does as well.


Think about what you are saying....... McCown.... where is he?? Not in Arizona, and if he is, they just drafted a QB in the first round. Are you saying we should've drafted a QB in the first round??

Kitna...... got replaced by a 2nd year man..... Frerotte is battling for a starting gig against RexGrossman.....

what is the point you are trying to make??

That AJ needs to pull off some Acrobatics every game?? or preseason game?? He was drafted in '03, ProBowl in '04, injured in '05......... I don't see what you are arguing.... honestly.

TEXANRED
08-29-2006, 10:54 AM
The Carr haters are right!!!!!! Carr is the worst QB next to Oliver Luck and Billy Joe Toliver. Its Carrs fault that AJ drops passes, I am sure it has something to do with his spiral.

In fact, I say we fire Kubiak. He wanted Carr and said he has all the physical abilities a starting QB needs. What does this guy know? Who has he ever coached that was any good? Young and same no name........Elway I think. Really McNair should have looked for a coach with championship experience instead of cheeping out on hiring a no name coach.

McNair should really listen to his fans. We know more. We booed Warren Moon and thought he was a hack. We were right about that one too. What did that guy ever do?

And to think we could have had Aaron Brooks.:fireball:

Kaiser Toro
08-29-2006, 10:57 AM
Where did I say anything about you being a Carr hater? You were acting though like anyone he criticized AJ or Moulds had to be a Carr lover.

Carr has thrown 3 deep balls this preseason--there was also the one tipped by the KC LB which would almost certainly have been a TD to AJ.

Strike the Carr hater rhetoric from the record and how far are we apart in agreement based off your take I was responding to?

Texas
08-29-2006, 10:57 AM
It's hard to make your qb look good when his best pass is the hitch pass


Amen

eriadoc
08-29-2006, 10:59 AM
Fine then take Carr out of the equation. If someone said to you that after three years AJ would have an All-Pro year under his belt after being injured one of those years and not playing the whole season, would that be a reasonable expectation for you given how most WR draft picks normally do not give you ROI until years three and four?

If the areas where AJ struggled were limited to learning and getting comfortable in the offense, running routes, and learning nuances of the position, I would totally agree with you. And in those areas, I don't get on AJ at all. Heck, I'm not really even getting on him much now. I am just saying he needs to show up in a few areas. Specifically, the areas where I think he has not lived up to the "elite" expectations are many of the same things Marcus mentioned. He doesn't need four years to learn how to blast someone at the LOS. He doesn't need four years to know he should come back to the ball when the QB is scrambling. He doesn't need four years to learn to use his body against a CB. He should need a year or two to get comfortable with his QB, in terms of matching up speed and throw depth, but not four. And he darn sure doesn't need four years to learn how to catch the ball. In 2004 he made the Pro Bowl and his drops were way down. In 2005, he was dinged, but his hands weren't. He dropped balls last year that were inexcusable. He's already dropped one easy one this preseason in limited opportunities (versus Rams, short WR screen left). These are things that really have nothing to do with the QB, irrespective of the name on the back of the jersey.

eriadoc
08-29-2006, 11:02 AM
Think about what you are saying....... McCown.... where is he?? Not in Arizona, and if he is, they just drafted a QB in the first round. Are you saying we should've drafted a QB in the first round??

Kitna...... got replaced by a 2nd year man..... Frerotte is battling for a starting gig against RexGrossman.....

what is the point you are trying to make??

That AJ needs to pull off some Acrobatics every game?? or preseason game?? He was drafted in '03, ProBowl in '04, injured in '05......... I don't see what you are arguing.... honestly.

What I am trying to say is that the WRs on those teams did their job, looked good, and even made Pro Bowls with those scrubs at QB. So regardless who we have at QB, AJ should be doing a better job if he wants to be considered int he same class as AJ, Boldin, Fitzgerald, etc. See my other posts as I am trying to be clearer about my position.

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 11:13 AM
The Carr haters are right!!!!!! Carr is the worst QB next to Oliver Luck and Billy Joe Toliver. Its Carrs fault that AJ drops passes, I am sure it has something to do with his spiral.

In fact, I say we fire Kubiak. He wanted Carr and said he has all the physical abilities a starting QB needs. What does this guy know? Who has he ever coached that was any good? Young and same no name........Elway I think. Really McNair should have looked for a coach with championship experience instead of cheeping out on hiring a no name coach.

McNair should really listen to his fans. We know more. We booed Warren Moon and thought he was a hack. We were right about that one too. What did that guy ever do?

And to think we could have had Aaron Brooks.:fireball:


So this is what you resort to when you have no points to argue??

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 11:36 AM
What I am trying to say is that the WRs on those teams did their job, looked good, and even made Pro Bowls with those scrubs at QB. So regardless who we have at QB, AJ should be doing a better job if he wants to be considered int he same class as AJ, Boldin, Fitzgerald, etc. See my other posts as I am trying to be clearer about my position.

#1, AJ is considered to be in the same class as Bolden, Fitzgerald, Moss, T.O., JoeHorn, Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, Randy Moss etc...... they all fit under the title "ProBowler"

#2, AJ made the ProBowl with a scrubb at QB. Carr has more in common with the QBs you've mentioned, than with the QBs who've made the ProBowl. He's got the talent, no denying that... but so far, he hasn't made the transition to the NFL game mentally.

eriadoc
08-29-2006, 11:51 AM
#1, AJ is considered to be in the same class as Bolden, Fitzgerald, Moss, T.O., JoeHorn, Marvin Harrison, Chad Johnson, Randy Moss etc...... they all fit under the title "ProBowler"

#2, AJ made the ProBowl with a scrubb at QB. Carr has more in common with the QBs you've mentioned, than with the QBs who've made the ProBowl. He's got the talent, no denying that... but so far, he hasn't made the transition to the NFL game mentally.

I think you're missing my point slightly here (maybe not, but it seems so). I am trying to evaluate AJ's individual performance on the opportunities he's been given. He made the Pro Bowl in 2004 and we are all justifiably excited about that. Then he had a down year in 2005. He had the lingering calf injury, sure. Prior to the calf injury, he was dropping easy balls. Prior to the calf injury, he was involved in plays that didn't work, for which he had an equal part of responsibility. If the QB throws a ball five yards over his head, he probably doesn't have a ton of responsibility there (route assignments notwithstanding). There were enough plays last season to give rise to concern.

Now that the calf has healed, should we expect the 2004 version of AJ again? Because to this point in the preseason, we haven't seen it. Now, there have been limited opportunities, obviously, and I am not one to read too much into preseason. However, I don't care if it's a preseason game, a backyard flag football game, or catch with the kids in the park - if you're a Pro Bowl WR, you catch the ball at about a 95% clip. We'll see how he does, but as I stated above, it is possible to evaluate individual performance within a given play. Ignore the Carr rhetoric for a bit and it's possible to maintain objectivity.

And this all sounds a lot harsher than I really intend it to be. I am optimistic about AJ and I am hopeful he never dons another uniform. When you're the team's best player, however, you have to get out there and do some spectacular things. That's all I want to see.

TEXANRED
08-29-2006, 11:51 AM
So this is what you resort to when you have no points to argue??
I can only say Carr and AJ need to step up together. I can only say your #1 WR and QB need to be on the same page and have chemistry which neither appear to have. I have said that with each post and that part keeps getting ignored.

Apparently:

Its Carr's fault AJ doesn't practice with the team in the off season.

Its Carr's fault AJ can't get open.

Its Carr's fault AJ drops the ball.

Its Carr's fault AJ takes plays off

Its Carr's fault AJ 6'3 220 gets out muscled for the ball by a 5'8 180 C.B.

Does Carr have his faults. Yes. Has Kubiak said that? Yes. Had Kubiak said Carr has a long way to go? Yes. Is this a Carr thread? No.

I say if its all the QBs fault we should pick up all the Lions receivers who can't seem to catch or get open either. Hey, it had to have been Harringtons fault right?

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 11:58 AM
I think you're missing my point slightly here (maybe not, but it seems so). I am trying to evaluate AJ's individual performance on the opportunities he's been given. He made the Pro Bowl in 2004 and we are all justifiably excited about that. Then he had a down year in 2005. He had the lingering calf injury, sure. Prior to the calf injury, he was dropping easy balls. Prior to the calf injury, he was involved in plays that didn't work, for which he had an equal part of responsibility. If the QB throws a ball five yards over his head, he probably doesn't have a ton of responsibility there (route assignments notwithstanding). There were enough plays last season to give rise to concern.

Now that the calf has healed, should we expect the 2004 version of AJ again? Because to this point in the preseason, we haven't seen it. Now, there have been limited opportunities, obviously, and I am not one to read too much into preseason. However, I don't care if it's a preseason game, a backyard flag football game, or catch with the kids in the park - if you're a Pro Bowl WR, you catch the ball at about a 95% clip. We'll see how he does, but as I stated above, it is possible to evaluate individual performance within a given play. Ignore the Carr rhetoric for a bit and it's possible to maintain objectivity.

And this all sounds a lot harsher than I really intend it to be. I am optimistic about AJ and I am hopeful he never dons another uniform. When you're the team's best player, however, you have to get out there and do some spectacular things. That's all I want to see.


If it hit him in the hands, yeah, he should've caught the ball. If he's having to jump up, and fade back, into the Corner, & gets a couple of fingers on the ball, you have to wonder why the ball was thrown the way it was.....

AJ had seperation. He was at least 1 yard inside of the corner. There was no Safety help to the inside. There was no reason to put that much air under that ball. It should have come more on a line..... Aj had the inside position.

eriadoc
08-29-2006, 12:08 PM
If it hit him in the hands, yeah, he should've caught the ball. If he's having to jump up, and fade back, into the Corner, & gets a couple of fingers on the ball, you have to wonder why the ball was thrown the way it was.....

AJ had seperation. He was at least 1 yard inside of the corner. There was no Safety help to the inside. There was no reason to put that much air under that ball. It should have come more on a line..... Aj had the inside position.

I'm not really even talking about that play. There's something to be said for how truly great WRs will come down with that ball, but it has to happen enough for them to win their fair share. AJ had a drop against the Rams that he just displayed oven mitts. It's only one drop, so no big deal. Last year, prior to his calf injury, he dropped at least two balls that were 100% sure TDs and the ball hit him right in the hands. He had others that weren't quite so important.

I just want to see him get back to 2004 form.

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 12:17 PM
I can only say Carr and AJ need to step up together. I can only say your #1 WR and QB need to be on the same page and have chemistry which neither appear to have. I have said that with each post and that part keeps getting ignored.


I'll agree with you on that.

Apparently:

Its Carr's fault AJ doesn't practice with the team in the off season.

Now we've got to do something about that... that just ain't right. Someone needs to get AJs Agent on the phone, and tell him to have AJ's butt in Houston by the time Training camp starts.... this is preposterous,, a sham......... we've been hoodwinked. If AJ can't be hear for training camp, and can't practice with the team during the preseason, then we just need to cut him. get rid of him.

Surely you can't be talking about OTAs.... I doubt working out with the Hurricanes in the spring is hurting AJ's ability to gel with Carr. If that program was so detrimental to an athletes ability to come in and play, they would've shut it down along time ago.

Its Carr's fault AJ can't get open.

Its Carr's fault AJ drops the ball.

Its Carr's fault AJ takes plays off

Its Carr's fault AJ 6'3 220 gets out muscled for the ball by a 5'8 180 C.B.

Does Carr have his faults. Yes. Has Kubiak said that? Yes. Had Kubiak said Carr has a long way to go? Yes. Is this a Carr thread? No.

Since you've been following the Texans, how many times have you heard a story, or read a quote where Kubiak was upset with AJ??

Maybe you should step back, and objectively look at the situation. Nobody is saying anything about Carr that kubiak isn't saying. CoachK thinks he can fix the problems with Carr....... some on this board(not me) thinks he has bit off more than he can chew.

I say if its all the QBs fault we should pick up all the Lions receivers who can't seem to catch or get open either. Hey, it had to have been Harringtons fault right?

Let's imagine you are the #1 reciever on a football team. Let's say your team is in it's third preseason game. You're playing most of your starters.. for most of the game. In the first half, your team ran close to 50 plays. 25 of those are passing plays. of those 25, 3 get thrown your way. the first one... you drop. The second one was a little over thrown. The third one...... you do your thang.

Now, as a reciever, there are only so many things you can do. You can run of at the mouth, and make a big todo about not getting enough opportunities, or you can take a few plays off.

I prefer the guy who makes a todo. Most people don't like the second guy.

so what's a guy to do??

TEXANRED
08-29-2006, 12:25 PM
If it hit him in the hands, yeah, he should've caught the ball. If he's having to jump up, and fade back, into the Corner, & gets a couple of fingers on the ball, you have to wonder why the ball was thrown the way it was.....

AJ had seperation. He was at least 1 yard inside of the corner. There was no Safety help to the inside. There was no reason to put that much air under that ball. It should have come more on a line..... Aj had the inside position.
I was always taught if you can touch it you can catch it.

Carr put the ball in a spot where only AJ could make a play. AJ got out played.

When a WR is covered and the QB throws the ball to them any way the QB will put the ball in a spot where the receiver has a chance to make the play. Whether its a high pass or a low pass. AJ was given the chance and failed.

As far as putting the ball on a line you have to consider what is between AJ and Carr. Linebackers, Linemen, safeties. Theres a lot to consider. It was a good throw, just like the one to Moulds. AJ failed to make the play on the ball. Pure and simple.

eriadoc
08-29-2006, 12:33 PM
I have no idea how the stat for drops is calculated, so read into this what you will. However, it would seem from the stats that elite WRs make more catches with similar opportunities. Stats can be used to say whatever, though, so who knows. For your reference ......

AJ
Year ---Targets ----- Drops ----- Catch % ----- First Down %
2005......114..............5................55.3.. .............35.1
2004......138..............4................57.2.. .............38.4
2003......119..............10..............55.5... ............37.8

Harrison
2005......132..............1................62.6.. .............44.7
2004......139..............4................61.9.. .............45.3
2003......142..............7................66.2.. .............42.3

Holt
2005......163..............8................62.6.. .............38.7
2004......136..............2................69.1.. .............42.6
2003......183..............5................63.9.. .............45.9

In 2004, the media and fans were all over Koren Robinson and Darrel Jackson for dropping the ball left and right. Here are their stats from that year:

Robinson
2004......67..............10................46.3.. ..............34.3

Jackson
2004......156............11................55.8... .............37.8

eriadoc
08-29-2006, 12:36 PM
Carr put the ball in a spot where only AJ could make a play. AJ got out played.

When a WR is covered and the QB throws the ball to them any way the QB will put the ball in a spot where the receiver has a chance to make the play. Whether its a high pass or a low pass. AJ was given the chance and failed.

AJ did get outplayed on that particular play. The defensive guys get paid as well, though. If AJ is to be considered a top WR, he has to make that play more often than not. One play in preseason isn't enough.

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 12:37 PM
I was always taught if you can touch it you can catch it.

Carr put the ball in a spot where only AJ could make a play. AJ got out played.

:challenge

I don't think so..... that was the wrong pass to throw..... It was as if he was throwing to the Corner.... if AJ doesn't get his fingers on it, it's an interception.
David was throwing a fade to the corner, but AJ had inside position.

When a WR is covered and the QB throws the ball to them any way the QB will put the ball in a spot where the receiver has a chance to make the play. Whether its a high pass or a low pass. AJ was given the chance and failed.

AJ was given a poorman's chance and saved an INT

As far as putting the ball on a line you have to consider what is between AJ and Carr. Linebackers, Linemen, safeties. Theres a lot to consider. It was a good throw, just like the one to Moulds. AJ failed to make the play on the ball. Pure and simple.

bad throw, pure and simple not at all like the throw to Moulds, which was a good throw...

& I didn't say he should have thrown it on a line, I said more of a line, less arc, less air.

El Tejano
08-29-2006, 12:40 PM
that's the rule of houstontexans.com. Only one guy gets 60+ starts to show his mad skillz. Everyone else better play better faster so Carr can hurry up and 'look good'.
Well sometimes AJ is thrown that perfect hitch pass and AJ doesn't catch it.

TEXANRED
08-29-2006, 12:43 PM
I'll agree with you on that.
Thanks for the new Signature. I had been looking for one.:)

Now we've got to do something about that... that just ain't right. Someone needs to get AJs Agent on the phone, and tell him to have AJ's butt in Houston by the time Training camp starts.... this is preposterous,, a sham......... we've been hoodwinked. If AJ can't be hear for training camp, and can't practice with the team during the preseason, then we just need to cut him. get rid of him.
Surely you can't be talking about OTAs.... I doubt working out with the Hurricanes in the spring is hurting AJ's ability to gel with Carr. If that program was so detrimental to an athletes ability to come in and play, they would've shut it down along time ago.

No not OTA. His work outs in Miami. I felt he should have been here in Houston working with David while he was here in Houston studying the play book. -But that just my opinion.

Since you've been following the Texans, how many times have you heard a story, or read a quote where Kubiak was upset with AJ??
None. The question every single time is always about Carr. He is the popular guy to dislike. Carr is the easier target.

Maybe you should step back, and objectively look at the situation. Nobody is saying anything about Carr that kubiak isn't saying. CoachK thinks he can fix the problems with Carr....... some on this board(not me) thinks he has bit off more than he can chew.
I agree 100%. I feel both Carr and AJ should step up and play to their potential.


Let's imagine you are the #1 reciever on a football team. Let's say your team is in it's third preseason game. You're playing most of your starters.. for most of the game. In the first half, your team ran close to 50 plays. 25 of those are passing plays. of those 25, 3 get thrown your way. the first one... you drop. The second one was a little over thrown. The third one...... you do your thang.
Walker and Smith where O.K. during Sundays game.

HeartofHouston
08-29-2006, 02:55 PM
I often find myself defending AJ, him being a product from "The U" I want him to be the best at his position for as long as possible, i've seen spotty performance from him this pre-season. There's plays like the quick slant on 4th and 1 that he took perfectly to get the first down and then there's plays like the jump ball with the 5'8 CB that he REALLY should have won.

I think that he has the ability to play to his potential but it was said coming out of college that sometimes he had mental lapses. And that's nothing something that i want to believe. I wish the best of luck to AJ and i hope that he steps his game up and return to that pro-bowl form that we would all LOVE for him to be.

dat_boy_yec
08-29-2006, 09:14 PM
TK you're being hypocritical. You hate Carr homers, but yet your sounding like a bigtime A.J. homer. I'll break the play down for you. The CB got his hands over A.J.'s body to keep him from making the catch as he was falling. From this we can make a few assumptions the CB had to make the play over A.J. meaning he had less of an opportunity at the pass. A.J. was off-balance so you can't put that on Carr. The pass would have been caught by A.J. had he not lost his balance. An elite WR would have made that catch. I'm not knocking A.J. but he has to be more consistent. (sound familiar.) A.J. has to many dropped balls and they aren't Carr's fault most of the time. Yes Carr makes bad throws, but A.J. also drops alot of passes that would be routine for and ELITE receiver. A.J. same as Carr has the tools to be an elite player so my critisism is that he has to step up his game and bring it all together.

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 10:48 PM
TK you're being hypocritical. You hate Carr homers, but yet your sounding like a bigtime A.J. homer. I'll break the play down for you. The CB got his hands over A.J.'s body to keep him from making the catch as he was falling. From this we can make a few assumptions the CB had to make the play over A.J. meaning he had less of an opportunity at the pass. A.J. was off-balance so you can't put that on Carr. The pass would have been caught by A.J. had he not lost his balance. An elite WR would have made that catch. I'm not knocking A.J. but he has to be more consistent. (sound familiar.) A.J. has to many dropped balls and they aren't Carr's fault most of the time. Yes Carr makes bad throws, but A.J. also drops alot of passes that would be routine for and ELITE receiver. A.J. same as Carr has the tools to be an elite player so my critisism is that he has to step up his game and bring it all together.

I'd like for all our players to play better....... I'd like for everyone of them to step up.

AJ should have caught that ball, I'm not saying otherwise. That was not a perfect pass....... that's all I'm saying. If I were playing Madden, I would have held the x button down, and zip the ball into Aj, he wouldn't have had to leave his feet. The ball would have been a hair ahead of him, so he could catch it, and continue to run. There was no one anywhere, that would have prevented me from making the throw, and no one anywhere to stop Aj from catching it.

I would not have tapped the X button, and aimed it at the sideline...... that's where the Cornerback was going to be.

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 11:10 PM
Thanks for the new Signature. I had been looking for one.:)

anytime.......


No not OTA. His work outs in Miami. I felt he should have been here in Houston working with David while he was here in Houston studying the play book. -But that just my opinion.

Right, I didn't know if the OTAs coincided with his workout at the U.

So are you talking about that time that David & Kubiak were going over the playbook, and watching film?? IF you feel that way, that's fine...... I forgot what point I was arguing.


None. The question every single time is always about Carr. He is the popular guy to dislike. Carr is the easier target.

that's my point.


I agree 100%. I feel both Carr and AJ should step up and play to their potential.


Can I use that as a sig??


Walker and Smith where O.K. during Sundays game.

The Ball was thrown to Walker & Smith in the first Quarter.... actually the 3rd & 4th pass attempts I believ.

Not blaming David, but we didn't ask our WR to play until there was only 2:07 seconds in the first half. imagine sprinting down the field for basically two quarters, 5 possesions, 20 plays, ten passing plays..... none went your way.

dump to running back, dump to running back, dump to fullback, dump to running back, interception, dump to runningback.....

We're lucky Aj & Moulds don't act like T.O.
================================================== =======
Now like I said before, I don't know if the dump offs weren't by design.. & AJ, & Moulds need to catch everything, if they want David to trust them, regardless if it's the 2nd play from scrimmage in the 1st quarter, or if it's not until that final 2 minutes of the 4th Quarter.