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View Full Version : David Carr being replaced is not that big of a deal


Divebomb
08-24-2006, 09:34 PM
Weird Possibility for QB Situation, but here is proof that replacing Carr is not that big of a deal and people should not make such a big deal if he does he rides the pine!

2003-2004 Brad Johnson 3,811 yds 26 TDs lost his job the next year to Brian Greiese
2003-2003 John Kitna 3591yds 26 TD to Carson Palmer
2005-2006 Kerry Collins 3759 yds 20 TDs lost the job to ??? up in the air
2005 Arron Brooks 2882 13 TDs Lost the job to a guy comming of major shoulder surgery
2005 Gus Frerotte 2996 18 TDs Lost the job to a guy comming of multiple knee ligament tears.


2005 David Carr 2488 14 TDs loosing the job to Sage, It is a possibility!!!
I want Carr to have success. I like David, and I think it is terrible that he has had his head cracked over 200 times since he came to Houston, but as a franchise trying to move forward he should understand that many QBs who have performed statistically at a much higher level than he has who have been canned or replaced! I hope Coach Kubiak knows that this city would be 100% for benching the guy if he does not perform, and I wish people would stop making such a big deal about Carr. If he is replaced then o.k. the guy is replaced.

Grid
08-24-2006, 09:52 PM
The combined age of those 5 players is 176

Why dont we have this discussion when it looks like there is even the slightest possibility that he might be benched within the next month.

Texans_Chick
08-24-2006, 10:00 PM
Weird Possibility for QB Situation, but here is proof that replacing Carr is not that big of a deal and people should not make such a big deal if he does he rides the pine!

2003-2004 Brad Johnson 3,811 yds 26 TDs lost his job the next year to Brian Greiese
2003-2003 John Kitna 3591yds 26 TD to Carson Palmer
2005-2006 Kerry Collins 3759 yds 20 TDs lost the job to ??? up in the air
2005 Arron Brooks 2882 13 TDs Lost the job to a guy comming of major shoulder surgery
2005 Gus Frerotte 2996 18 TDs Lost the job to a guy comming of multiple knee ligament tears.


And those situations all worked out great?

Kubiak is a QB guy, and whatever works for him, works for me.

Divebomb
08-24-2006, 10:07 PM
I agree, I think the whole QB issue I hear on the radio and see on this site is garbage. If he is yanked then so what? It happens to lots of guys who have done much more than Carr. If he is demoted in two or three months, and that is a big IF, I don't think it should be that big of an issue.

Tailgate
08-24-2006, 10:07 PM
So are you determining this "possibility" from Sage's play against second and third string in the pre season? Or the fact that Carr has had to endure one of the worst situations as a QB in the entire NFL? Would Sage or anyone for that matter done better with what Carr has been dealt thus far?

Doubt Carr gets benched this year either way.

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
08-24-2006, 10:10 PM
I agree, I think the whole QB issue I hear on the radio and see on this site is garbage. If he is yanked then so what? It happens to lots of guys who have done much more than Carr. If he is demoted in two or three months, and that is a big IF, I don't think it should be that big of an issue.
DB I think most of the people on this board have a problem with the amount of money he is making and him not out on the field producing WINS.

Vinny
08-24-2006, 10:11 PM
So are you determining this from Sage's play against second and third string in the pre season? Or the fact that Carr has had to endure one of the worst situations as a QB in the entire NFL? Would Sage or anyone for that matter done better with what Carr has been dealt thus far?

Doubt Carr gets benched this year either way.
I think many of us want good QB play and really don't care if the name on the back is Carr, Pastorini, Moon, Delhomme or Rosenfels. The past is the past....we just want good QB play.

Texanfan4ever
08-24-2006, 10:27 PM
DB I think most of the people on this board have a problem with the amount of money he is making and him not out on the field producing WINS.

The amount of money he is making doesn't change my life nor yours, or anyone elses that professes to be a Texan fan. Get over it. Are you jealous that there is someone in the world that makes that much money, 2 million, 4 million, eight million, who cares. All professional athletes, in my opinion are way over paid. That doesn't change my life or yours. So get over the money. Most of these people arguing one way or the other have no care about the money. They just want us to win.

I am a Carr Homer. I think he has been screwed by the last 4 year coaching staff, and I hope he comes out of it. He has already shown signs. He's only played a little over a half of a game so far. Give the guy a break.

More than a Carr homer I am a Kubiak homer. If he thinks he can fix David, then I believe him. Start a new subject. Kubiak has already said that David is our QB and he is going to give him every chance that he has spent the last 4 years on his back deserving. Get over it! Geez!!!

Divebomb
08-24-2006, 10:54 PM
Here is my opinion about the money and Carr. I like to take the Bagwell approach to the situation. Baggs is done; he has been done for about 2 1/2 years now. The guy has tied up 20 million for two seasons and we deal with it because of what he has meant to our Astros in the past. Carr has quite a bit of money tied up as well, but the guy has chances to earn that money and he has earned that previous money. Resigning Carr to give him a chance was the right decision because the team in a way owed him the opportunity to prove his worth. If he plays like I hope he does then we will have done the right thing and Carr can redeem his career. If he flops we move to sage and salvage the season. Its not that big of a deal, and the money was worth it because we did the right thing by giving the guy his chance. I dont fell sorry for Carr at all, so what if he has been sacked 200+ times, he lives a much better life then 99% of the population. We give him his chance and he cant cut it then we move on. I just think he is getting way to much attention.

Hulk75
08-24-2006, 10:57 PM
Weird Possibility for QB Situation, but here is proof that replacing Carr is not that big of a deal and people should not make such a big deal if he does he rides the pine!

2003-2004 Brad Johnson 3,811 yds 26 TDs lost his job the next year to Brian Greiese
2003-2003 John Kitna 3591yds 26 TD to Carson Palmer
2005-2006 Kerry Collins 3759 yds 20 TDs lost the job to ??? up in the air
2005 Arron Brooks 2882 13 TDs Lost the job to a guy comming of major shoulder surgery
2005 Gus Frerotte 2996 18 TDs Lost the job to a guy comming of multiple knee ligament tears.


2005 David Carr 2488 14 TDs loosing the job to Sage, It is a possibility!!!
I want Carr to have success. I like David, and I think it is terrible that he has had his head cracked over 200 times since he came to Houston, but as a franchise trying to move forward he should understand that many QBs who have performed statistically at a much higher level than he has who have been canned or replaced! I hope Coach Kubiak knows that this city would be 100% for benching the guy if he does not perform, and I wish people would stop making such a big deal about Carr. If he is replaced then o.k. the guy is replaced.
Wow a guy plays well against NFL Europe guys and we are benching Carr..............Amazing how this has spread.

Tailgate
08-24-2006, 10:57 PM
I think many of us want good QB play and really don't care if the name on the back is Carr, Pastorini, Moon, Delhomme or Rosenfels. The past is the past....we just want good QB play.

I agree... winning is the bottom line. But this is really a non issue... the Texans will be a better team with Carr as the starting QB. Kubaik will agree... and you will see Carr at the helm all season barring injuries.

Divebomb
08-24-2006, 11:13 PM
Wow a guy plays well against NFL Europe guys and we are benching Carr..............Amazing how this has spread.

I am new and I really do not understand your post?

I do not think Carr is going to be replaced by Sage but I would not be in shock if he does. It happens to guys all the time who have posted much better numbers than Carr, that is my point of view.

Vinny
08-24-2006, 11:20 PM
The amount of money he is making doesn't change my life nor yours, or anyone elses that professes to be a Texan fan. Get over it. Are you jealous that there is someone in the world that makes that much money, 2 million, 4 million, eight million, who cares. All professional athletes, in my opinion are way over paid. That doesn't change my life or yours. So get over the money. I think you miss the point. I don't think he is worried that Carr is paid too much....but that he isn't living up to his cap hit. You only have so much cap and every cent you over pay for one position you take away from another position, so if your best paid player isn't your best player you hurt the team by not taking some of that money and upgrading another position.

Honoring Earl 34
08-24-2006, 11:24 PM
I don't care how much money Carr makes just like I don't care how much money Dominic Davis makes . The bottom line is whats best for the team , if Carr plays great thats peachy ... if he does'nt then bench him . I don't care who you put in , if he stinks he should be treated like any other player .

My gut feeling is Carr does'nt show in Denver , what then ? I bet Kubiak does'nt just sit singing Kum Ba Ya .

texflex513
08-24-2006, 11:52 PM
Ultimately im behind Carr 100% but if coach decides he is not our guy anymore i can respect that... I still think david will break out this year.

thunderkyss
08-24-2006, 11:56 PM
Weird Possibility for QB Situation, but here is proof that replacing Carr is not that big of a deal and people should not make such a big deal if he does he rides the pine!

2003-2004 Brad Johnson 3,811 yds 26 TD’s lost his job the next year to Brian Greiese
2003-2003 John Kitna 3591yds 26 TD to Carson Palmer
2005-2006 Kerry Collins 3759 yds 20 TD’s lost the job to ??? up in the air
2005 Arron Brooks 2882 13 TD’s Lost the job to a guy comming of major shoulder surgery
2005 Gus Frerotte 2996 18 TD’s Lost the job to a guy comming of multiple knee ligament tears.


Ok..... to make this a good argument, you've got to show where it has paid off for the team that made the swap..... So far, we've got a bunch of teams that have chronically made bad decisions, making bad decisions, and it looks like you are saying we shouldn't be worried about making a bad decision.....

the numbers look good, but I don't think you thought this out as thoroughly as you should have.

Griese........ didn't make the next season as that teams starter... they replaced him with a guy they didn't feel confident enough to sign for more than one year.

CarsonPalmer....... chances are good that Carson was a good decision...... but it's been a long time since the Bengals have been a football team.

theRaiders......... are looking for a starting QB as we speak...... they are not thinking playoffs.... they are hopeing for a 4-10 season.

Miami.... hasn't had a QB since Marino..... again, I like Culpepper......... and Sage ain't no Culpepper........

tsip
08-25-2006, 12:14 AM
Ok..... to make this a good argument, you've got to show where it has paid off for the team that made the swap..... So far, we've got a bunch of teams that have chronically made bad decisions, making bad decisions, and it looks like you are saying we shouldn't be worried about making a bad decision.....

the numbers look good, but I don't think you thought this out as thoroughly as you should have.

Griese........ didn't make the next season as that teams starter... they replaced him with a guy they didn't feel confident enough to sign for more than one year.

CarsonPalmer....... chances are good that Carson was a good decision...... but it's been a long time since the Bengals have been a football team.



theRaiders......... are looking for a starting QB as we speak...... they are not thinking playoffs.... they are hopeing for a 4-10 season.

Miami.... hasn't had a QB since Marino..... again, I like Culpepper......... and Sage ain't no Culpepper........

...how long you been stuck on 2979 posts?

thunderkyss
08-25-2006, 12:23 AM
...how long you been stuck on 2979 posts?

I don't know..... why do you ask??

Oh my look at that.......... I'm at 2980.......... I wonder what would happen if I were to make another post.

Nighthawk
08-25-2006, 12:41 AM
I agree with the guy who said let's wait until it's a real possibility that David might be replaced. I'm _not_ a Carr fan, but I'm sure the change is not about to happen. Let's wait and see how David does in the real season, and let's wait, too, and see if Rosenfels is a realistic option, not just a guy who looked pretty good in two preseason games. The old saying: two swallows do not a summer make.

BlueThunder
08-25-2006, 01:14 AM
:shoot:

Texans86
08-25-2006, 02:27 AM
Weird Possibility for QB Situation, but here is proof that replacing Carr is not that big of a deal and people should not make such a big deal if he does he rides the pine!

2003-2004 Brad Johnson 3,811 yds 26 TDs lost his job the next year to Brian Greiese
2003-2003 John Kitna 3591yds 26 TD to Carson Palmer
2005-2006 Kerry Collins 3759 yds 20 TDs lost the job to ??? up in the air
2005 Arron Brooks 2882 13 TDs Lost the job to a guy comming of major shoulder surgery
2005 Gus Frerotte 2996 18 TDs Lost the job to a guy comming of multiple knee ligament tears.


2005 David Carr 2488 14 TDs loosing the job to Sage, It is a possibility!!!
I want Carr to have success. I like David, and I think it is terrible that he has had his head cracked over 200 times since he came to Houston, but as a franchise trying to move forward he should understand that many QBs who have performed statistically at a much higher level than he has who have been canned or replaced! I hope Coach Kubiak knows that this city would be 100% for benching the guy if he does not perform, and I wish people would stop making such a big deal about Carr. If he is replaced then o.k. the guy is replaced.

You forgot one major detail. Every one of the guys that replaced the starter already had lots of starting experience in the NFL. These weren't exactly journeymen second-teamers. Drew Brees and Daunte Culpepper? Haven't both been to the Pro Bowl? Sage Rosenfels has mediocre stats at best against starters in the NFL.

TK_Gamer
08-25-2006, 05:43 AM
oh the heck with it , the whole team played bad last year, lets just replace em all..

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
08-25-2006, 07:41 AM
The amount of money he is making doesn't change my life nor yours, or anyone elses that professes to be a Texan fan. Get over it. Are you jealous that there is someone in the world that makes that much money, 2 million, 4 million, eight million, who cares. All professional athletes, in my opinion are way over paid. That doesn't change my life or yours. So get over the money. Most of these people arguing one way or the other have no care about the money. They just want us to win.

I am a Carr Homer. I think he has been screwed by the last 4 year coaching staff, and I hope he comes out of it. He has already shown signs. He's only played a little over a half of a game so far. Give the guy a break.

More than a Carr homer I am a Kubiak homer. If he thinks he can fix David, then I believe him. Start a new subject. Kubiak has already said that David is our QB and he is going to give him every chance that he has spent the last 4 years on his back deserving. Get over it! Geez!!!

slow down my man, to tell you the truth I'm a carr fan I was just making a general statement because of all the thread that bring up carrs contract extention and all the $$$$ he is getting payed Divebomb has very few post so I dont know how much he has read on the MB just pointing out sumething that carr haters have point out time any again. I agree with your post 100% and maybe I should have explained myself better, lesson learned.

Texanfan4ever
08-25-2006, 10:14 AM
slow down my man, to tell you the truth I'm a carr fan I was just making a general statement because of all the thread that bring up carrs contract extention and all the $$$$ he is getting payed Divebomb has very few post so I dont know how much he has read on the MB just pointing out sumething that carr haters have point out time any again. I agree with your post 100% and maybe I should have explained myself better, lesson learned.

Point taken. I've calmed down now. :shades: I hope Carr makes it. But on the other hand, it is so great to know that we have a coach that we can trust to make the right decision for the team. If he changes his mind and replaces David someday, you know it will be for the best. It would be a very sad day, but it would be acceptable because I believe Kubiak knows what he is doing.

K.D.
08-25-2006, 11:00 AM
I could care less about how much money Carr is making, that not a issue to me. I'm a bigg fan of DC and I really think with the guidance from Kubiak and Calhoun, DC is going to come out of that shell Capers,Palmer,Pendry put him in. I don't think he is going to be replaced by Sage unless for injuries. Carr is going to have his hi's and lo's, but the lo's aren't going to be that severe to where Kubiak and Co. can't fix. Just remember how awful Plummer was in AZ, got to Denver and had/having productive seasons. Carr is on right track, just got to get the last 4yrs out of his system.

Divebomb
08-25-2006, 12:27 PM
I stopped posting here because it turned into a Bash Carr thread, I did not intend for it to be than way. I was listening to the sports radio shows and so many of those guys think we would not replace Carr, we should replace Carr, the damn Carr Sage calls come in the hundreds every day. I think people should realize that a QB change is a possibility and should be understood if the guy is not cutting it and it really is not that big ofa deal who is starting because winning should be our #1. I think the majority of sports talk radio in Houston is completelynegative. Mario has played great, watch the film, anyone who knows football can see the guy has done very well so far. I will not post here again because like I said , this issue is not that big of a deal in my opinion.

hobie
08-25-2006, 12:31 PM
Why do ya'll keep replying to these posts. It's a beaten horse, let it lie...

thunderkyss
08-25-2006, 12:43 PM
I stopped posting here because it turned into a Bash Carr thread, I did not intend for it to be than way. I was listening to the sports radio shows and so many of those guys think we would not replace Carr, we should replace Carr, the damn Carr Sage calls come in the hundreds every day. I think people should realize that a QB change is a possibility and should be understood if the guy is not cutting it and it really is not that big ofa deal who is starting because winning should be our #1. I think the majority of sports talk radio in Houston is completelynegative. Mario has played great, watch the film, anyone who knows football can see the guy has done very well so far. I will not post here again because like I said , this issue is not that big of a deal in my opinion.

I don't think anyone here thinks the world will come to an end if David is replaced.... benched, whatever........

The problem is wanting to bench him after a little more than 2 quarters of football. Dude hasn't even got his hair wet, and you want him to get out of the pool.......... not you, but you know.....

& no one will be surprised if David is subbed in week 8...... we'll know it wasn't some rash decision made by some guy trying to save his job........

lol.. one step drops.......... promoting the OFFENSIVE LINE coach........ lol...... man we've had some characters come through Houston alright......



Why do ya'll keep replying to these posts. It's a beaten horse, let it lie...
obvilously not.......

michaelm
08-25-2006, 06:53 PM
Why do ya'll keep replying to these posts. It's a beaten horse, let it lie...


Your option to just pass on by...

HomeBred_Texan
08-25-2006, 07:14 PM
Your option to just pass on by...
I must have missed something. This wasn't another bash Carr thread was it? :stirpot:

thunderkyss
08-25-2006, 09:54 PM
They're all bash Carr threads....... sometimes it takes a page or two........

TK_Gamer
08-26-2006, 01:24 PM
I'm gonna go out on a limb.....and say that I understand the gist of divebomb's statement. I agree in part that it isnt that big of a deal to replace a starting QB, it happens all the time. but you generally want it to be an upgrade unless the replaced QB is hurting the team with his poor play. I dont think Carr has done that. quite the opposite, I think without Carr's ability and threat to throw the ball 50 yards on a rope, we end up with 8 in the box on every down. Sage looks calmer in the pocket, there no denying that. but thats not what puts points on the board. To me, Carr has some movent characteristics that make him ALLWAYS appear gittery, but it doesnt seem to effect his ability to throw the ball at all. sage has shown accuracy issues against 2nd and 3rd string defenses that when put against 1st string ability could end up being knocked down or intercepted. no to mention putting undue risk to the guy catching the ball. if you constantly make the reciever reach or bend down to catch the ball, he is wide open and vulnerable to get the crap knocked out of him. so while I agree with divebomb in principle, I dont think it applies to our situation. Rosenfels is NOT an upgrade to the QB spot, and Carr is not hurting the team with his play. Personally I see Carr in the probowl this year but thats just me.

thunderkyss
08-26-2006, 01:51 PM
I dont think Carr has done that. quite the opposite, I think without Carr's ability and threat to throw the ball 50 yards on a rope, we end up with 8 in the box on every down.


I agree with the gist of your post.... & I don't want to be argumentive, but I doubt many Houston Fans would put throwing the ball 50 yards on a rope as one of the skills Carr has got down patt.... WE believe he'll get there, but as of yet, he hasn't proven that he can do it with any real consistency. for whatever reason, Carr's down field accuracy is in question.

The fact that we've faced 8 men in the box on most every down for the last 2 years should attest to that.

TK_Gamer
08-26-2006, 02:03 PM
I agree with the gist of your post.... & I don't want to be argumentive, but I doubt many Houston Fans would put throwing the ball 50 yards on a rope as one of the skills Carr has got down patt.... WE believe he'll get there, but as of yet, he hasn't proven that he can do it with any real consistency. for whatever reason, Carr's down field accuracy is in question.
The fact that we've faced 8 men in the box on most every down for the last 2 years should attest to that.

I'll prolly get labeled an appologist for this but I dont think our previos gameplan allowed carr to try many deep balls, thats if he ever got a reciever open enough to catch one too. moulds should help with that this year and anderson if he makes the cut. dont get me wrong, I have limited evidence of the deep ball by carr, but Ive seen some nice flashes of it. unfortunately alot of them bouced off the receiver or flew over their head.

cuppacoffee
08-26-2006, 02:40 PM
I think you miss the point. I don't think he is worried that Carr is paid too much....but that he isn't living up to his cap hit. You only have so much cap and every cent you over pay for one position you take away from another position, so if your best paid player isn't your best player you hurt the team by not taking some of that money and upgrading another position.

Other than payaton, I doubt that each teams highest paid/cap hit player is their most productive player.

Not necessarily Carrs case but I think the NFL system tends to overpay past performance. That doesn't make it fair or right, but I do believe that it is the result.

I haven't heard or read anywhere that Carrs salary/cap hit has prevented us from signing anyone we wanted to sign or re-sign.

It would be interesting to see a team by team breakdown of who is the highest cap hit on each team.

I would think there are more teams than not whose players fall into the overpaid/cap hit, not the best on the team, category.

But I could be wrong.

jmho though

:coffee: