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OzzO
08-23-2006, 12:04 PM
not to make a gazzillionth QB post (mods, merge if you want) - but Lopez actually wrote a good commentary that could almost sum up both sides of the arguement quite nicely on the boards recently...

...Sure, the Texans have more than a financial interest in Carr becoming everything they've hoped he would. They're pulling for him. They're invested emotionally in him.

But if backup quarterback Sage Rosenfels could get this franchise where it wants to go more quickly and efficiently, neither Kubiak nor McNair would blink....

....Today, Carr is the starting quarterback because he has earned it. But Rosenfels' strong camp and solid preseason efforts have offered Kubiak confidence in the backup and kept the pressure on Carr....

..."(Rosenfels) has got starter ability," Kubiak said. "All the players gravitate toward him, and that's great. It's great for the team. It's great for David. It pushes David every day, and that's why we went and got him."

And the result, said Kubiak: "No buts. David's our starting quarterback. He has to hold up his end of the bargain. When there's a play he's got to make, he's got to make it."...

...If Carr weren't showing the improvement and confidence the Texans need, Kubiak would not hesitate to say so publicly, as he has done with 2005 No. 1 pick Travis Johnson and others. And any move Kubiak would make certainly would be supported by McNair, who announced before camp: "I don't care how much money you make or where you were drafted. If you don't fit in, you'll get cut."

This Sunday in Denver, Carr will get three quarters of work with the first-team offense. It will be the best glimpse yet of his and the unit's development....

J. Lopez 8/23/06 (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/lopez/texans/4134627.html)

gtexan02
08-23-2006, 12:07 PM
McNair, who announced before camp: "I don't care how much money you make or where you were drafted. If you don't fit in, you'll get cut."


I love McNair :)

Meloy
08-23-2006, 12:18 PM
This should (but will not) put the Carr debate to rest until at least into the regular season. I enjoyed the article earlier today. Carr is the QB. Kubes wants and thinks he can do better. Carr wants & thinks he can do better. All Texan fans want him to do better and should allow the player & the coach to do their jobs. I think it is ok to criticize anyone, but facts must play a stronger role than emotions.

jerek
08-23-2006, 12:24 PM
I for one am really looking forward to the Denver game. Three quarters against an elite NFL team ... this will be an opportunity to get a much stronger feel for just how good we are or aren't.

real
08-23-2006, 12:28 PM
I agree...Facts should play a stronger role, and all I want is the best QB on the field...IMO, right now Sage is better..period....I really and truly hope that Carr can turn into a beast because that would make us so much more complete, and to have Sage behind him would be even better...

Meloy
08-23-2006, 12:36 PM
I agree...Facts should play a stronger role, and all I want is the best QB on the field...IMO, right now Sage is better..period....I really and truly hope that Carr can turn into a beast because that would make us so much more complete, and to have Sage behind him would be even better...I agree with you except on who is best. Carr should play 3 quarters Sunday & Sage most of the 4th game. We will know more then. I agree we need two strong QBs and a third training.

QB75
08-23-2006, 12:38 PM
I am a fan of David Carr, but unfortunately I don't believe that this controversy will last very long. If the Texans can patch together a secondary to make the team more competitive, Rosenfels may prove to be the difference in being able to execute, score and win.

What will be interesting is to see if David struggles in what appears to be a winnable game, and Kubiak subs Sage to try to get the win. My guess is that this will happen in game 1 against a decent but beatable team in the Eagles.

tsip
08-23-2006, 12:40 PM
"but facts must play a stronger role than emotions."


I hope 'everyone' understands this--- 'facts', not 'potential' or the 'past.'

infantrycak
08-23-2006, 12:42 PM
"but facts must play a stronger role than emotions."


I hope 'everyone' understands this--- 'facts', not 'potential' or the 'past.'

Potential goes in the facts pile more than the emotion pile. Once it looks like the potential can't be realized, then it goes over to emotion and the QB gets benched. Right now Kubiak still sees the potential.

Divebomb
08-23-2006, 12:44 PM
I thought bringing in Sage was a joke at first but Kubiak was on the money with that guy. If he says he can win with Carr then i say we give him a chance. I will not complain if they yank Carr midseason if the is stinking it up because I know we have a great backup. Lots of positives for this year!

Hardcore Texan
08-23-2006, 12:48 PM
not to make a gazzillionth QB post (mods, merge if you want) - but Lopez actually wrote a good commentary that could almost sum up both sides of the arguement quite nicely on the boards recently...



J. Lopez 8/23/06 (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/lopez/texans/4134627.html)

Sounds like what a lot of us have said, Kubiak will put the best 11 on the field. I am anxious to see the game this week with Denver, and get a good long look at the first string.

Nothing really to debate at this point, let the preseason run its course and the coaching staff will do what is right for the team.

Malloy
08-23-2006, 12:53 PM
I for one am really looking forward to the Denver game. Three quarters against an elite NFL team ... this will be an opportunity to get a much stronger feel for just how good we are or aren't.

Unless Denver puts in their 2nd and 3rd string players after the first quarter ;)

real
08-23-2006, 01:01 PM
I am a fan of David Carr, but unfortunately I don't believe that this controversy will last very long. If the Texans can patch together a secondary to make the team more competitive, Rosenfels may prove to be the difference in being able to execute, score and win.

What will be interesting is to see if David struggles in what appears to be a winnable game, and Kubiak subs Sage to try to get the win. My guess is that this will happen in game 1 against a decent but beatable team in the Eagles.

I don't know if it will happen that soon, but my gut tells me that he will be taken out some time this year...

eric138
08-23-2006, 01:03 PM
I'm hoping Carr gets it together BUT what is going to be said next week if Sunday night he doesn't "execute" and then Sage goes in in the late third quater or forth quarter and brings a come back..

Qtr Texans Denver
1-----0 ------ 7
2----- 3 ------ 17
3 ----- 6 ------ 24
4 ----- 30 ----- 27

real
08-23-2006, 01:15 PM
I'm hoping Carr gets it together BUT what is going to be said next week if Sunday night he doesn't "execute" and then Sage goes in in the late third quater or forth quarter and brings a come back..

Qtr Texans Denver
1-----0 ------ 7
2----- 3 ------ 17
3 ----- 6 ------ 24
4 ----- 30 ----- 27

ha ha...

thunderkyss
08-23-2006, 01:48 PM
I am a fan of David Carr, but unfortunately I don't believe that this controversy will last very long. If the Texans can patch together a secondary to make the team more competitive, Rosenfels may prove to be the difference in being able to execute, score and win.

What will be interesting is to see if David struggles in what appears to be a winnable game, and Kubiak subs Sage to try to get the win. My guess is that this will happen in game 1 against a decent but beatable team in the Eagles.
If Kubiak is the man we think he is, we'll loose the Philly game before he pulls Carr. Yeah we are going to win some games this year, but Pulling Carr will hurt us more than loosing that game, or the next three, in the long run. Above all else, Carr has got to know that Kubiak is in his corner, and pulling him out of a game so we can try to get a win is the wrong way to go to try to instill that message.

So anyone looking for Carr to play at a probowl level is going to be really upset for 16 games..... cause Carr ain't getting pulled.

..If Carr weren't showing the improvement and confidence the Texans need, Kubiak would not hesitate to say so publicly, as he has done with 2005 No. 1 pick Travis Johnson and others. And any move Kubiak would make certainly would be supported by McNair, who announced before camp: "I don't care how much money you make or where you were drafted. If you don't fit in, you'll get cut.

As long as Kubiak is satisfied with his performance, we will loose games before he pulls Carr.

Right now, look at David Carr just like you'd look at Phillip Rivers. He isn't a rookie. He isn't a SaltyVet....... even though David is on the salty side..... he's going to go out there, and do what the coach is asking him to do... he's going to screw up.... we're going to loose some games, but it will all work out in the end.

thunderkyss
08-23-2006, 01:50 PM
Sounds like what a lot of us have said, Kubiak will put the best 11 on the field. I am anxious to see the game this week with Denver, and get a good long look at the first string.

Nothing really to debate at this point, let the preseason run its course and the coaching staff will do what is right for the team.


That's not what that said at all..... he'll put the best 10, and David Carr, whether David is the best or not..... once he feels David can't progress any farther, then he'll put in the best 11.

tsip
08-23-2006, 02:00 PM
Potential goes in the facts pile more than the emotion pile. Once it looks like the potential can't be realized, then it goes over to emotion and the QB gets benched. Right now Kubiak still sees the potential.


IMO, thinking this way defeats this thread, because you are giving Carr what he's already had for 4 years--longevity based upon 'potential.' You're saying that 'every' time something changes for Carr, expectations for him go back to 'square one' because he has the 'potential' to succeed at the new task. And, the main reason he hasn't already succeeded, is because of circumstances around him that were 'out of his control.'

Too, who or what determines what defines 'potential' and when does 'can't be realized' manifest itself. IMO, we need definite goals and time tables or this notion of 'potential' will become a 'revolving door.'...

real
08-23-2006, 02:06 PM
I am so sick and tired of hearing about Carr's freakin' potential...Carr has got to show me something...

infantrycak
08-23-2006, 02:28 PM
IMO, thinking this way defeats this thread, because you are giving Carr what he's already had for 4 years--longevity based upon 'potential.' You're saying that 'every' time something changes for Carr, expectations for him go back to 'square one' because he has the 'potential' to succeed at the new task.

No I am not. I am saying this team committed to the idea that Kubiak and this system could unleash the potential they see in Carr. Don't know where the every time something changes stuff comes from--it is undeniable Kubiak, Sherman and this system are the biggest changes which have ever happened to this team.

And, the main reason he hasn't already succeeded, is because of circumstances around him that were 'out of his control.'

I am not making that assertion, this coaching staff is making that assertion. Frankly you seem to be acting as if the circumstances around him meant nothing.

Too, who or what determines what defines 'potential' and when does 'can't be realized' manifest itself. IMO, we need definite goals and time tables or this notion of 'potential' will become a 'revolving door.'...

Who is Kubiak, Smith and McNair. Time table--whenever they feel Carr has ceased to make improvement at a level which is unacceptable. Complain about it all you want, it is unreasonable to expect an instant turn around or even one very quickly in really deciding if they were right or have made a mistake and there is no definite goal or time table which is going to be applied.

I am so sick and tired of hearing about Carr's freakin' potential...Carr has got to show me something...

I am sick of it too and this year should be the end but bringing that potential out however sick everyone is of the word is exactly the mission Kubiak took on as the best program for the Texans this offseason so we better all wish him well.

That's not what that said at all..... he'll put the best 10, and David Carr, whether David is the best or not..... once he feels David can't progress any farther, then he'll put in the best 11.

Different tactics, same old TK.

jerek
08-23-2006, 02:30 PM
We totally should have drafted Vince Young.

SESupergenius
08-23-2006, 02:33 PM
The team should be committed to Carr for at least half of the season, if not the whole season. Our team personnel wise was horrible before Kubiak got here and we still have a few holes to plug. David Carr needs a little time to grasp this offense and shake whatever mistakes he's had with the previous regime. He needs time, something that the fans are not willing to give too much considering all of the losing seasons we've had. But like it or not, it takes a little time for things to come together. Having a guy like Young would have taken more time in my opinion.

HOU-TEX
08-23-2006, 02:38 PM
The team should be committed to Carr for at least half of the season, if not the whole season. Our team personnel wise was horrible before Kubiak got here and we still have a few holes to plug. David Carr needs a little time to grasp this offense and shake whatever mistakes he's had with the previous regime. He needs time, something that the fans are not willing to give too much considering all of the losing seasons we've had. But like it or not, it takes a little time for things to come together. Having a guy like Young would have taken more time in my opinion.

I agree with you. If we would've drafted a QB this year, I would've chosen Cutler over all but that's for another thread, some other day.

tsip
08-23-2006, 02:41 PM
We totally should have drafted Vince Young.

I wouldn't know because I was never on his 'band wagon' or even mentioned him more than a couple of times, Bush either. My thinking is why talk about players that aren't on the team and the last draft is months over and the next one is months away? What does it accomplish?

real
08-23-2006, 02:44 PM
I think Jerek was playing guys...relax

The Pencil Neck
08-23-2006, 03:58 PM
I for one am really looking forward to the Denver game. Three quarters against an elite NFL team ... this will be an opportunity to get a much stronger feel for just how good we are or aren't.

I agree.

I wasn't real pleased with how the offense looked against the 1st string Ram D. I want to see extended time against a good team. We've got the chance to be a .500 team with our schedule but we've got to e... exe... excasqweradsf....

I can't say it.

But we've got to do it better than we did against the Rams.

Runner
08-23-2006, 03:59 PM
Execute isn't a bad word when used correctly.

thunderkyss
08-23-2006, 04:25 PM
We totally should have drafted Vince Young.

Finally....... I knew I'd convince you sooner or later......lol


But seriously.... Vince does have more rushing touchdowns than a certain Heisman winning Runningback so far......

thunderkyss
08-23-2006, 04:30 PM
Different tactics, same old TK.

NOW hold on...... I am not knocking David Carr...... just trying to help people understand how a young QB is trained...... unlike other positions that can be swapped and pulled from time to time..... several times a season...... several times a game..... The QB is not one of those positions you jokey around with.

CajunTexan
08-23-2006, 04:33 PM
The team should be committed to Carr for at least half of the season, if not the whole season. Our team personnel wise was horrible before Kubiak got here and we still have a few holes to plug. David Carr needs a little time to grasp this offense and shake whatever mistakes he's had with the previous regime. He needs time, something that the fans are not willing to give too much considering all of the losing seasons we've had. But like it or not, it takes a little time for things to come together. Having a guy like Young would have taken more time in my opinion.

You know what really twist my shorts in a knot, is how the previous staff impaired Carr's progress. He was drafted #1 because of his "potential" to be a franchise QB. Had he been paired with a guy like Kubes from day one, who knows where he would be, but I think it would be farther along than he is know.

I really did not think Carr's preseason performance would become such an issue on the board. I fully expected Carr to just shine for the "get go." Now, I am not panicked like some, but it just further pisses me off knowing how much damage was done by not coaching this guys potential up.

I look at the video in the thread "Favorite Carr Plays" of him hitting Lewis in the chest with that deep pass and just say to myself "DARN." OK, maybe not darn, but you get the point.

I know I am crying over spilt milk but it really does piss me off.

Now, will the reclamation project that Kubiak undertook of moving Carr to another level that meets those "potential" expectations, include a benching at some point? Possibly. I do know that Kubes would be willing to pull the trigger if he thought it was in the best interest of the team. David has rarely sat and watched other than being hurt, maybe it would help his perspective.

It would be interesting to see how David handled that. Would he come back firing and take his job back, or would he slip in to "Couch oblivion?" I do not believe it would come to that, but if it did I believe Carr would take the former route. IMO.

real
08-23-2006, 04:41 PM
NOW hold on...... I am not knocking David Carr...... just trying to help people understand how a young QB is trained...... unlike other positions that can be swapped and pulled from time to time..... several times a season...... several times a game..... The QB is not one of those positions you jokey around with.

I agree with that...

ledzeppelin229
08-23-2006, 04:46 PM
Execute isn't a bad word when used correctly.

As in...execute the old coaching staff?

thunderkyss
08-23-2006, 04:52 PM
I really did not think Carr's preseason performance would become such an issue on the board. I fully expected Carr to just shine for the "get go."

Now why would you expect him to shine...... that's what I don't get. Of course some people have turned a blind eye to all of David's faults over the years, so I can understand them being surprised.

But you've had guys like Vinny, tsip, fido, and a few others honestly criticizing Carr for years. Then you have jerek, Morknolle, and even infantrycak giving you their conservative criticism.

David has as many problems as this team has wholes. Many of you think it's going to take 2 years before we can see what Kubiak is capable of with the team, why wouldn't it take as long with the QB??

If you remember the Oilers, think about what it was like when McNair finally got the starting job. He was experienced, full of potential, and the rough edges were knocked off. It was still a couple of years before he was "polished". McNair had some bad games, and there were more than a few where people(not just the fans) were questioning Fisher's IQ. But he stuck with his guy, and as far as I'm concerned, the Titans ought to retire ihs number & pray that McNair will want to go into the HOF as a Titan. If he goes into the HOF.

That's pretty much David right now. He's experienced, and full of potential, and still rough around the edges.... of course his 4 years on the field should accelerate his learning curve, compared to McNairs two years on the bench. But one TrainingCamp??

That would be a miracle. I can understand giving David 6 to 8 regular season games....... but two preseason games?? that's just not logical.

CajunTexan
08-23-2006, 05:05 PM
Now why would you expect him to shine...... that's what I don't get. Of course some people have turned a blind eye to all of David's faults over the years, so I can understand them being surprised.

But you've had guys like Vinny, tsip, fido, and a few others honestly criticizing Carr for years. Then you have jerek, Morknolle, and even infantrycak giving you their conservative criticism.

David has as many problems as this team has wholes. Many of you think it's going to take 2 years before we can see what Kubiak is capable of with the team, why wouldn't it take as long with the QB??

If you remember the Oilers, think about what it was like when McNair finally got the starting job. He was experienced, full of potential, and the rough edges were knocked off. It was still a couple of years before he was "polished". McNair had some bad games, and there were more than a few where people(not just the fans) were questioning Fisher's IQ. But he stuck with his guy, and as far as I'm concerned, the Titans ought to retire ihs number & pray that McNair will want to go into the HOF as a Titan. If he goes into the HOF.

That's pretty much David right now. He's experienced, and full of potential, and still rough around the edges.... of course his 4 years on the field should accelerate his learning curve, compared to McNairs two years on the bench. But one TrainingCamp??

That would be a miracle. I can understand giving David 6 to 8 regular season games....... but two preseason games?? that's just not logical.

Let me qualify by saying I do not think he has been bad. I really can't say, as I have not been able to see the games, just highlights. But yes, I have high expectations for what the offense can accomplish.

I guess I thought the formula of (Carr's potential + Carr's physical tools + 4 years experience + Kubiak + training camp - learning a new system + an improved offensive line + an upgraded receiving corps + TE's + a good running game) would = "Bashers" ZIP IT!

It will get there, hopefully Sunday night.

thunderkyss
08-23-2006, 05:14 PM
Let me qualify by saying I do not think he has been bad. I really can't say, as I have not been able to see the games, just highlights. But yes, I have high expectations for what the offense can accomplish.

I guess I thought the formula of (Carr's potential + Carr's physical tools + 4 years experience + Kubiak + training camp - learning a new system + an improved offensive line + an upgraded receiving corps + TE's + a good running game) would = "Bashers" ZIP IT!

It will get there, hopefully Sunday night.

IMHO you're headed for a heartache if you think he'll get it by Saturday night. & he really has looked better than he did last year.

I've got my hopes set pretty high as well....... 13-3..... but since I don't blame 2-14 on David, I've got no reason to beleive our team won't go 13-3. Even a Bad David Carr doesn't make the kinda mistakes that hurts your team.... other than eating the ball. That shouldn't be as big a problem this year, so I'm hopefull.

tsip
08-23-2006, 05:35 PM
"he really has looked better than he did last year."

How has he looked better?

thunderkyss
08-23-2006, 05:49 PM
"he really has looked better than he did last year."

How has he looked better?

Last year, he looked scared, lost and hurried on every play, whether there was a rush or not.

So far this preseason, he looks like he's ready to play. IMHO, he wasn't even aware dude was in his face, when Lundy missed that block. He was doing what he was supposed to be doing. looking down the field. Sure, he should have felt the guy was there.......... AFAIK, he did. but maybe he's been ignoring that feeling, because he doesn't trust it yet.... needs to be calibrated.

this next example has nothing to do with being better than last year, but I like it.
there was a play, the recievers were covered down field, I assume. David Rolls out to his right, looking downfield. Cook is running with him, step for step 4 or 5 yards ahead of him. Before going out of bounds(I was holding my breath) he threw the ball away........ now I'm sitting there thinking....... it's good he threw the ball away..... shwew....... but what was wrong with cook??

A few plays later...... I beleive in the same series..... same thing..... except this time, as Carr is running to the sideline, still looking downfield(something I don't think he did at all last year, but I could be wrong), he checks down, then throws it to Cook for a 4 yard gain.

to me, that says someone talked to David between the plays...... maybe right after..... maybe a butt chewin...... he made the adjustment, they put him in the same situation...... and he did what he was supposed to.

& I like seeing him getting chewed out on the sideline.....

tsip
08-23-2006, 06:03 PM
Last year, he looked scared, lost and hurried on every play, whether there was a rush or not.

So far this preseason, he looks like he's ready to play. IMHO, he wasn't even aware dude was in his face, when Lundy missed that block. He was doing what he was supposed to be doing. looking down the field. Sure, he should have felt the guy was there.......... AFAIK, he did. but maybe he's been ignoring that feeling, because he doesn't trust it yet.... needs to be calibrated.

this next example has nothing to do with being better than last year, but I like it.
there was a play, the recievers were covered down field, I assume. David Rolls out to his right, looking downfield. Cook is running with him, step for step 4 or 5 yards ahead of him. Before going out of bounds(I was holding my breath) he threw the ball away........ now I'm sitting there thinking....... it's good he threw the ball away..... shwew....... but what was wrong with cook??

A few plays later...... I beleive in the same series..... same thing..... except this time, as Carr is running to the sideline, still looking downfield(something I don't think he did at all last year, but I could be wrong), he checks down, then throws it to Cook for a 4 yard gain.

to me, that says someone talked to David between the plays...... maybe right after..... maybe a butt chewin...... he made the adjustment, they put him in the same situation...... and he did what he was supposed to.

& I like seeing him getting chewed out on the sideline.....

He's playing just like your first sentence. Didn't you see the Kubiak quote that said Carr missed several oppurtunities to make big plays because he didn't handle the blitz well? Better than last year? Lower QB rating! Lower ypa! etc. C'mon. I know it's just 2 pre-season games/everything is new but 'playing better!!??'...let's hope not and the best is yet to come...

mikoto
08-23-2006, 06:17 PM
At this point I think David Carr is either simply unable to handle the speed, complexity and intensity of the NFL, in spite of his physical gifts, OR he was so badly coached, and truly abused, by the previous regime that he is little more than a rookie, a shell-shocked rookie. If the former...ack, I don't even wan't to think it. If the latter, maybe he has a chance to snap out of it.

Right now, he looks very much like a rookie with potential.

TBO, I'm a little woried about him. He has it all physically, but maybe the last four years have ruined him. He just can't seem to focus his full attention where it needs to be. He looks like he is ready to run for his life at any moment, every moment he is on the field. When he is looking for recievers, it is as if he is looking desperately rather than calmly. The mind simply can't function optimally that way, and being a QB is about the mind.

thunderkyss
08-23-2006, 06:20 PM
He's playing just like your first sentence. Didn't you see the Kubiak quote that said Carr missed several oppurtunities to make big plays because he didn't handle the blitz well? Better than last year? Lower QB rating! Lower ypa! etc. C'mon. I know it's just 2 pre-season games/everything is new but 'playing better!!??'...let's hope not and the best is yet to come...

NO...... if I thought he was playing that badly, I would have said it.

Carr missed some opportunities..... does that mean he was scared?? I just said IMHO he didn't look scared.... he was looking downfield, and didn't notice Lundy missed a block. Where he wouldn't have missed that last year. What specifically did you see that made you think he looked scared??

Lower ypa, lower QB rating...... yadda yadda yadda....... he threw 5 passes in the first game, and what 11 in the second??

I thought he looked good against KC.... looking downfield, as he ran the bootleg..... again, something I have criticized him about last year.

I have yet to see any test of his accuracy..... I've yet to see him take a good hit..... square on the chin...... to see if he reverts back to his old self. & I'd like to see him audible and beat a blitz.

& not only do I want to see how he handle those things...... I want to see him go over them several times, to see if he changes........ gets better.. from game to game.....

the only thing I'm disappointed in, is that the ill-advised pass in the second game was worse, than the ill-advised pass in the second game. Looked like the same situation, and he made the same mistake twice.

Now I didn't get the idea that he was rushed, or scared.... I thought he just didn't see what we saw.

which isn't good, but I think they'll be working on it.

SESupergenius
08-23-2006, 06:22 PM
NO...... if I thought he was playing that badly, I would have said it.

Carr missed some opportunities..... does that mean he was scared?? I just said IMHO he didn't look scared.... he was looking downfield, and didn't notice Lundy missed a block. Where he wouldn't have missed that last year. What specifically did you see that made you think he looked scared??Watch the one play where Moulds was wide open on a curl, why he didn't throw to him is beyond me, Carr just froze of something. I'd like to see him be more decisive.

thunderkyss
08-23-2006, 06:25 PM
Watch the one play where Moulds was wide open on a curl, why he didn't throw to him is beyond me, Carr just froze of something. I'd like to see him be more decisive.

Which game, and what time??

IN the StL game, I saw he threw the ball at Moulds feet..... & that was the only pass I saw intended for Moulds....... but I think he was getting pulled on, pushed on, or stepped on as he threw the ball. I'll go look again, just tell me which game and about when....

The Pencil Neck
08-23-2006, 08:01 PM
Let me qualify by saying I do not think he has been bad. I really can't say, as I have not been able to see the games, just highlights. But yes, I have high expectations for what the offense can accomplish.

I guess I thought the formula of (Carr's potential + Carr's physical tools + 4 years experience + Kubiak + training camp - learning a new system + an improved offensive line + an upgraded receiving corps + TE's + a good running game) would = "Bashers" ZIP IT!

It will get there, hopefully Sunday night.

Carr's got to do more than just learn a new system. He's got to unlearn a bunch of bad habits that the previous regime "taught" him.
He might look worse before he looks better.

From my own life, I had played guitar for 25+ years (most of that professionally) before I went to the Musician's Institute. To improve, I had to relearn some things and in the process, I got worse but once I made those changes in my technique and practiced them to the point they were instinctive, I got a lot better really quick.

We might have to deal with that with that and Kubiak might be expecting it.

The Pencil Neck
08-23-2006, 08:15 PM
I just said IMHO he didn't look scared.... he was looking downfield, and didn't notice Lundy missed a block.

This is what I've liked about his play so far. After all the beating, it doesn't seem like he's watching the rush. He's looking downfield. At least he seems to be and to me, that's a good sign.

edo783
08-23-2006, 08:23 PM
Carr's got to do more than just learn a new system. He's got to unlearn a bunch of bad habits that the previous regime "taught" him.
He might look worse before he looks better.

From my own life, I had played guitar for 25+ years (most of that professionally) before I went to the Musician's Institute. To improve, I had to relearn some things and in the process, I got worse but once I made those changes in my technique and practiced them to the point they were instinctive, I got a lot better really quick.

We might have to deal with that with that and Kubiak might be expecting it.

Very good point about unlearn and re-learn.

Runner
08-23-2006, 08:39 PM
Carr's got to do more than just learn a new system. He's got to unlearn a bunch of bad habits that the previous regime "taught" him.


Wand had to do the exact same thing. I'm sure some of our other previously hidden talents could say the same. It's amazing that players could be in the league 2, 3, 4 years before they received any decent coaching.

Jwwillis
08-23-2006, 09:06 PM
Potential goes in the facts pile more than the emotion pile. Once it looks like the potential can't be realized, then it goes over to emotion and the QB gets benched. Right now Kubiak still sees the potential.

Potential got him the starting job as a rookie.

Texanfan4ever
08-23-2006, 09:37 PM
Bottom line, at least we have coaches we can trust to do the right thing, whatever that will be. My vote is still on David. After all, he's only played 3 quarters total so far. Kubes made the comment that he coached someone else, and I can't remember who it was, that had come to Denver scared of getting sacked like David, and he pulled him out of it. If anyone can do it, Kubiak can. :lightbulb:

I have to say it makes me furious with Capers & Company for putting ALL of our guys through what they went through. They all have to unlearn a whole lot. :brickwall

Go Texans!!!! :redtowel:

thunderkyss
08-23-2006, 10:16 PM
Bottom line, at least we have coaches we can trust to do the right thing, whatever that will be. My vote is still on David. After all, he's only played 3 quarters total so far. Kubes made the comment that he coached someone else, and I can't remember who it was, that had come to Denver scared of getting sacked like David, and he pulled him out of it. If anyone can do it, Kubiak can. :lightbulb:

I have to say it makes me furious with Capers & Company for putting ALL of our guys through what they went through. They all have to unlearn a whole lot. :brickwall

Go Texans!!!! :redtowel:


Honestly, I'm pulling for David to succeed..... but If I here one more JakePlummer comparison, then I'm going to have to believe that is the best we can expect from David Carr. & If JakePlummer is the best we can hope for......... I'm sorry, I can't support that anymore.

Matt Hassleback, JakePlummer, Jake Delhomme...... none of them have what it takes to be a truly special QB. I'm talking TroyAikman, BretFavre, SteveYoung, JoeMontana, DanMarino, TerryBradshaw, JohnElway, RogerStaubach, Warren Moon.......... I'm talking no question asked first ballot HOF guys..... (I really don't know if WarrenMoon was a first ballot guy).

Sure, I prefer the SuperBowl, if I can't have both, but I don't want to settle for one or the other, and I don't think we should have to.

Nighthawk
08-23-2006, 11:28 PM
If Kubiak is the man we think he is, we'll loose the Philly game before he pulls Carr. Yeah we are going to win some games this year, but Pulling Carr will hurt us more than loosing that game, or the next three, in the long run. Above all else, Carr has got to know that Kubiak is in his corner,

OMG! Thunderkyss has been podded into Capers! Call the exterminators!

In case you failed to note, this is the same argument Capers and others used for 4 (count'em) long years.

However, as I've said elsewhere, I think they'll give Carr 6 weeks of regular season to start being part of the reason we're winning. THey might pull him and try Sage if Carr is stinking things up, but Carr will start the next week.

After 6 or 8 weeks, if Carr isn't a material factor in Texan victories, then all bets are off.