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View Full Version : Is the Coach Kub. holding Mario back?


Divebomb
08-22-2006, 01:33 AM
I am not a betting man, but if I were I would put 5 on the idea that Mario is being told to go through the motions durring pre-season to keep from injuries. First off, I watch the guy and being a X-DE myself, I see that he is playing a line-containment technique. What I mean is he attacks the line and stands up the OT and or TE+OT and forces the RB inside and the QB has to move in the opposite direction because he has built a wall that prevents roll outs. Watch the game he presses and contains keeping his edge which is great against the run and boot legs but it is never going to get you a sack. I have not seen one swim move or outside burn move this preseason. Every stunt he makes is inside and every outside rush is a bull rush.. I am telling you guys they are holding the leash on this guy and when they give him the green light all hell is going to break loose. The guy ran a 4.5, is quick as a cat, strong as an Bull, and has arms that are as long as an Ironing board. Come Phily people are going to be like what the hell is going on, and ESPN will be chocking on there B.S. remarks.

Texansfan36
08-22-2006, 01:35 AM
If that is the case then may God have mercy on Donovan.

TexanBacker93
08-22-2006, 01:39 AM
If that is the case then may God have mercy on Donovan.

He'll have to. Richard Smith and this defense sure as heck won't.

veazeyt
08-22-2006, 01:58 AM
I am not a betting man, but if I were I would put 5 on the idea that Mario is being told to go through the motions durring pre-season to keep from injuries. First off, I watch the guy and being a X-DE myself, I see that he is playing a line-containment technique. What I mean is he attacks the line and stands up the OT and or TE+OT and forces the RB inside and the QB has to move in the opposite direction because he has built a wall that prevents roll outs. Watch the game he presses and contains keeping his edge which is great against the run and boot legs but it is never going to get you a sack. I have not seen one swim move or outside burn move this preseason. Every stunt he makes is inside and every outside rush is a bull rush.. I am telling you guys they are holding the leash on this guy and when they give him the green light all hell is going to break loose. The guy ran a 4.5, is quick as a cat, strong as an Bull, and has arms that are as long as an Ironing board. Come Phily people are going to be like what the hell is going on, and ESPN will be chocking on there B.S. remarks.

I am buying this input, because occacionally, when I have been able to watch Mario, he seems to be playing in slowmotion some times. I thought it was because he is so big. I was wondering about spin and swim moves myself.

TexanSam
08-22-2006, 02:10 AM
I am not a betting man, but if I were I would put 5 on the idea that Mario is being told to go through the motions durring pre-season to keep from injuries. First off, I watch the guy and being a X-DE myself, I see that he is playing a line-containment technique. What I mean is he attacks the line and stands up the OT and or TE+OT and forces the RB inside and the QB has to move in the opposite direction because he has built a wall that prevents roll outs. Watch the game he presses and contains keeping his edge which is great against the run and boot legs but it is never going to get you a sack. I have not seen one swim move or outside burn move this preseason. Every stunt he makes is inside and every outside rush is a bull rush.. I am telling you guys they are holding the leash on this guy and when they give him the green light all hell is going to break loose. The guy ran a 4.5, is quick as a cat, strong as an Bull, and has arms that are as long as an Ironing board. Come Phily people are going to be like what the hell is going on, and ESPN will be chocking on there B.S. remarks.

I noticed there's no swim move or anything either. You have more knowledge about it than I do, but what you've said seems accurate too me. I wonder if he is just going through the motions. I'd hope not because he is a rookie and he needs to learn all he can.

Scooter
08-22-2006, 02:11 AM
i'd have to agree and hinted at it a few days ago. mario seems to be doing a lot more learning & practicing the last two games than he did playing full throttle. if that is the case, i think it's the best thing for him. mario's weaknesses are obviously not physical, what he needs the most work on is assignment and technique. hopefully the coaches are having him work on those areas as much as possible during the reps he's getting during preseason. i do expect to see a different mario in game 4 and possibly game 3, because i think they'll do a little more turning him loose.

HJam72
08-22-2006, 02:16 AM
From what I've heard, that bull-rushing and going around (at the DE) is all he knows how to do and that he has a lot learning to do, which will happen, of course. I hope I'm wrong though. I'd love to see him break out suddenly against the Eagles. :redtowel:

veazeyt
08-22-2006, 02:22 AM
IF it is all true, for him to maintain his discipline for the sake of the team.

We really have a great sound and intelligent player. Any ego-centric player would have blwon the cover.

Smash_Mouth_Mario
08-22-2006, 02:24 AM
From what I've heard, that bull-rushing and going around (at the DE) is all he knows how to do and that he has a lot learning to do, which will happen, of course. I hope I'm wrong though. I'd love to see him break out suddenly against the Eagles. :redtowel:

Yeah, I haven't seen the swim move either. But this could be a technique that he just doesn't know well yet. He could have depended on his bull-rush and going around the outside in college.

So, the good news is that's he's a coaches dream player. And will learn. Two Reggie White moves that I want Mario to learn: The HEAD SLAP (Oh, I'm sorry OT! Are your ears ringing?) and the SMASH MOUTH (badump bump...) :D

texflex513
08-22-2006, 03:46 AM
Check out his highlight video on youtube he just seemed so much stronger than most of the guys a bull rush was all he needed... saw one of reggie whites moves in there though.. check it out if you havent already..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5R8y4gxE88

HJam72
08-22-2006, 05:36 AM
Check out his highlight video on youtube he just seemed so much stronger than most of the guys a bull rush was all he needed... saw one of reggie whites moves in there though.. check it out if you havent already..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5R8y4gxE88

That tells me a lot right there. The guy never had to learn any moves. I think it's about time our coaches taught him a few. :yahoo:

Malloy
08-22-2006, 06:15 AM
That tells me a lot right there. The guy never had to learn any moves. I think it's about time our coaches taught him a few. :yahoo:

I have a feeling they already have, but this being pre-season (Yes Sir, I would like the plain vanilla please) I think that both our offense and blitzing will be brought out for the regular season only.

Divebomb: Interesting take on Williams, I believe you're onto something there. Good little read, welcome to the boards, and here's some positive rep for ya :)

South Texan
08-22-2006, 09:02 AM
Welcome Divebomb, and I agree with you on this one.

Mario, along with most of the team, is probably being told to stick to the basics, and save the best stuff for regular season. The whole first draft pick thing has got to be putting tremendous mental pressure on him, but I think as he continues to get used to playing with the big boys, he will put it behind him and hit his stride.

For whatever reason, Mario, Weaver, or the new coaching it looks like we have a D-Line this year!

lazzer65
08-22-2006, 09:05 AM
Also, remember early on in training camp how Mario was reaking havoc against our Oline? Now it seems that he has either slowed down, or everyone else has just caught up. I'd put some faith in the fact that the coaches are maybe covering :spy: up his talent.

Conspiracy theory at it's best.

Dale

HJam72
08-22-2006, 09:09 AM
]']Mental Pressure? I think Mario is being carried by his teammates, helping him along as best as they can. I think there is not much pressure on Mario.

He will be a beast!

Good point. Every time somebody disses Mario, Peek flattens somebody's QB, lol.

Texans_Chick
08-22-2006, 09:32 AM
I am not a betting man, but if I were I would put 5 on the idea that Mario is being told to go through the motions durring pre-season to keep from injuries. First off, I watch the guy and being a X-DE myself, I see that he is playing a line-containment technique. What I mean is he attacks the line and stands up the OT and or TE+OT and forces the RB inside and the QB has to move in the opposite direction because he has built a wall that prevents roll outs. Watch the game he presses and contains keeping his edge which is great against the run and boot legs but it is never going to get you a sack. I have not seen one swim move or outside burn move this preseason. Every stunt he makes is inside and every outside rush is a bull rush.. I am telling you guys they are holding the leash on this guy and when they give him the green light all hell is going to break loose. The guy ran a 4.5, is quick as a cat, strong as an Bull, and has arms that are as long as an Ironing board. Come Phily people are going to be like what the hell is going on, and ESPN will be chocking on there B.S. remarks.


Interesting theory. Thanks for sharing. As for the rest of this thread, some comments:

1. Bob Karmelowicz knows all of the tricks and is teaching them to Mario. Technique. If you google it, he even has a video. He is respected as someone who can develop a rookie DE. His workouts are so hard, I'm a guessing the games are a relief.

2. I heard a brief audio clip on 610 of Mario talking about moves. He said he is experimenting with different things this preseason. That the preseason is for trying stuff out. That seems to fly in the face of the observations made here, but thought I'd add it.

So there ya go.

TexanFanInCC
08-22-2006, 10:05 AM
well he played pretty well against the rams for a guy that was being "held back" to prevent injury possibility. i agree with divebomb. i saw peek doing all sorts of spins and swims, but none from mario, and i know he his agile enough to do that stuff. im still not going to get cocky, but donovan better come prepared when he faces us because peek and williams are going to be wreaking some havok on their line.

Hervoyel
08-22-2006, 10:25 AM
I don't believe that anyone is holding Mario Williams on a leash or telling him to hold back. I think what we're seeing is nothing more than a guy adjusting to the speed of the game at this level and the size/power of NFL offensive linemen. He's going to learn how to get around them given time but, as we've all seen in two preseason games he's not being given the reps he'll need to work out how to get through/around the guys he going against.

Also the coaches are fixated on moving him around for some reason. I'm less enthusiastic about that than they are but then again nobody is paying me to coach a defense so I'm optimistic that they know what they're doing here. I think we would see Mario a little farther ahead of where is now if the rest of our line was established and they were just leaving him in one spot consistently.

Texans_Chick
08-22-2006, 10:44 AM
I don't believe that anyone is holding Mario Williams on a leash or telling him to hold back. I think what we're seeing is nothing more than a guy adjusting to the speed of the game at this level and the size/power of NFL offensive linemen. He's going to learn how to get around them given time but, as we've all seen in two preseason games he's not being given the reps he'll need to work out how to get through/around the guys he going against.

Also the coaches are fixated on moving him around for some reason. I'm less enthusiastic about that than they are but then again nobody is paying me to coach a defense so I'm optimistic that they know what they're doing here. I think we would see Mario a little farther ahead of where is now if the rest of our line was established and they were just leaving him in one spot consistently.

From what they are saying, they are using the preseason to experiment with stuff. They don't have a lot to look at from last year, and there is only so much you can figure out in camp. So they are trying not to narrow in on one way of doing stuff before they really know what they have. Especially maybe when their personnel is not exactly what they want to have with what they are running.

I like seeing him do one thing more consistently, but I think I know where they are coming from.

I agree that they are not likely holding Mario back.

real
08-22-2006, 10:52 AM
I don't think anyone is holding him back either...he's a rookie, making rookie mistakes...As far as them moving him around; I like it..especially if he becomes as dominant as advertised...The reason i like it is because even if he is dominating at just the end spot the other team will get use to that penetration and adjust...the QB will know he needs to shuffle away from Mario while in the pocket...but by putting him all over the place you never give the offense a chance to get used to where the pressure is constantly coming from...It makes the offense feel like it could come from any where at any time...

El Tejano
08-22-2006, 11:52 AM
The whole moving him around thing comes from the versatility of A.Weaver. I just feel like he is working on things. I don't believe he is being held back. I believe he is being told to work on this and that.

real
08-22-2006, 12:05 PM
The whole moving him around thing comes from the versatility of A.Weaver. I just feel like he is working on things. I don't believe he is being held back. I believe he is being told to work on this and that.

Exactly. I think it's more that theyt have him working on specific things, and because he is thinking about those specifics it takes away from his natural instincts, and slows him down somewhat...Once he gets all the little nuances down and he stops thinking as much, I think we will se a much more agressive player who is sure of what he is doing...:superman:

David's Busted Carr
08-22-2006, 12:08 PM
This makes alot of sense. Right now he seems to be strictly in learning mode. If you notice both games so far he's moving around on almost every play to get him a taste of everywhere on the line. And after every game he says "I still have alot to learn".

We all know the guy has all they physical tools, combine that with everything he is "learning" and this guy is going to....


UNLEASH HELL on all NFL QBs!!!!


:fireball:

jdog
08-22-2006, 12:49 PM
If that is the case then may God have mercy on Donovan.

Here's a good commercial for microwaveable single serving Campbell's chunky soup...

Donovan taking a sip of delicious soup as Mario knocks him out of the picture.

Campbell's...eat fast.

powerfuldragon
08-22-2006, 12:57 PM
If that is the case then may God have mercy on Donovan.
amen.

Divebomb
08-22-2006, 01:12 PM
Hello again, well I see why some people feel that he is just learning, and yes NFL OL are a much different ball game but here is a contradiction for you. Last week Mario faced Alex Barron. Now that guy is not a vet, what one year in the league. Most NFL DE like Peppers and Kearse have a knack for getting to the QB because they both swim, slap, or edge speed rush driving up field and then inside. If you watch some of those practice clips you will see Mario do this but come game time he attacks the line and stays parallel to the line, except for the inside stunt like the one we say last week when he got to the back 3 yards deep. I might be wrong about Mario but I do know one thing, any sack monster DE, college or pro, makes his bread and butter on getting that outside edge on the OT. Not once has Mario shown that style of play or has played the edge with that wild man attitude that DE has to have. You donít get 14 sacks on the bull rush at any level.

real
08-22-2006, 01:20 PM
Hello again, well I see why some people feel that he is just learning, and yes NFL OL are a much different ball game but here is a contradiction for you. Last week Mario faced Alex Barron. Now that guy is not a vet, what one year in the league. Most NFL DE like Peppers and Kearse have a knack for getting to the QB because they both swim, slap, or edge speed rush driving up field and then inside. If you watch some of those practice clips you will see Mario do this but come game time he attacks the line and stays parallel to the line, except for the inside stunt like the one we say last week when he got to the back 3 yards deep. I might be wrong about Mario but I do know one thing, any sack monster DE, college or pro, makes his bread and butter on getting that outside edge on the OT. Not once has Mario shown that style of play or has played the edge with that wild man attitude that DE has to have. You don’t get 14 sacks on the bull rush at any level.

I hear ya...IMO, Mario isn't very quick off of the line, and when he comes off he tends to stand straight up...not a good combination for getting sacks...IMO, Mario is not going to be a sack artist....I don't think he will ever lead the team in sacks...But i never expected him to...I do expect him to shut down any action on his side of the field though....I view him more as a run stopper than a pass rusher..JMO....and he isn't the same type of athlete as Julius or Javon...They are a bit more athletic, and can make those crisp spin moves and swims and not lose a step...

jdog
08-22-2006, 02:29 PM
I am not a betting man, but if I were I would put 5 on the idea that Mario is being told to go through the motions durring pre-season to keep from injuries. First off, I watch the guy and being a X-DE myself, I see that he is playing a line-containment technique. What I mean is he attacks the line and stands up the OT and or TE+OT and forces the RB inside and the QB has to move in the opposite direction because he has built a wall that prevents roll outs. Watch the game he presses and contains keeping his edge which is great against the run and boot legs but it is never going to get you a sack. I have not seen one swim move or outside burn move this preseason. Every stunt he makes is inside and every outside rush is a bull rush.. I am telling you guys they are holding the leash on this guy and when they give him the green light all hell is going to break loose. The guy ran a 4.5, is quick as a cat, strong as an Bull, and has arms that are as long as an Ironing board. Come Phily people are going to be like what the hell is going on, and ESPN will be chocking on there B.S. remarks.

If you read Anthony Weaver's blog, he sort of says that Mario Williams does not have a lot of technique right now which would conflict with your theory.

One thing that helps all of us on the defensive line is having someone like Mario Williams, who can demand double teams. Mario is a man child. For a man his size, to move the way he does, itís impressive. As soon as he gets these little technique things down, heís going to be a force to be reckoned with in this league. There is no doubt about it.

Right now, he just overpowers guys. He hasnít developed every move yet, but he has the unique ability to just put his head down and run over people. Itís impressive, and the second he fine-tunes his technique, his athletic abilities will take him far beyond the rest of us.

HeartofHouston
08-22-2006, 03:07 PM
Personally I think that a lot of people are taking it easy it's only pre-season right now, alot of rookies end up hitting that "Rookie Wall" around the end of the year and that's nothing something that you would want out of your 1st overall draft pick and the anchor for your aggressive defense..

so i think that he's just saving some of his moves and energy for the regualr season so that he doesnt fatigue out and hit that fore-mentioned rookie wall and he can be consistent throughout the entire season.

Divebomb
08-22-2006, 03:08 PM
This is what I mean buy cutting him loose, and after watching this video, you tell me Mario does not have a swim move or that he does not have a outside burn move (outside burn more - getting up field as fast as possible to get you OT to follow you and then burn inside to get to the QB, Mario does it very well). They are not letting Mario show anything in the preseason, the tape does not lie. Oh and I know that this is the NFL but my argument is that Mario sits on the line of scrimage during the preseason games and plays run / outside containment. When the leash is taken off, this will be the guy against Philly, do not kid yourself. I hope I dont get in trouble for putting this link on this post. Oh and watch this video and tell me Mario was not deserving of a #1 pick. Florida State is not Fresno State LOL!

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?p=mario+williams&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8&b=0&oid=62f8cd8723822c50&rurl=sports.yahoo.com&vdone=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fvide o%3Fp%3Dmario%2Bwilliams%26toggle%3D1%26cop%3D%26e i%3DUTF-8

Chance_C
08-22-2006, 03:15 PM
IMO (and it isn't worth much) Mario's college coaching was inferior to his talent. His previous coaches were "tapped out" so to speak and he was not. He needed further seasoning and he is getting it from a great D lineman's coach in coach Karm. Let him work his magic, and please believe Mario when he says that he has alot to learn. Remember the cut block being effective against him until he learned how to counter it in college? Same situation in a nutshell. His knowledge is inferior right now in the NFL, but his talent and ability is not.
Going from a small school with limited coaching to NFL usually doesn't equate to instant success.

Divebomb
08-22-2006, 03:31 PM
He is going to be great, he has not shown anything during the preseason. It is only a matter of time. He is a NFL DE do not kid yourself and think he got 14 sacks last year off bull rushing. I posted a link to prove this point. He is gonna get em week one.

AlbinoRat
08-22-2006, 03:38 PM
Maryland isn't cream of the crop either. Plus, ask the FSU dude and he'll tell you FSU doesn't have a great line. Or you can just ask Drew Weatherford. We all agree Mario is good, but don't expect him to be the God of the D-Line in his first few games. I can only assume how deep your love for him goes, but stop trying to build everyone's expectations.

AlbinoRat
08-22-2006, 03:44 PM
He is going to be great, he has not shown anything during the preseason. It is only a matter of time. He is a NFL DE do not kid yourself and think he got 14 sacks last year off bull rushing. I posted a link to prove this point. He is gonna get em week one.

Alot of those sacks were against teams that suck too. He plays in the ACC, which is tough, but only to a certain degree. There's the top 4 FSU, Miami, BC, and NCST. But then there's GTech, UNC, Duke, Wake Forest, Maryland. Clemsons O-Line is good, but not great.

srstex
08-22-2006, 03:55 PM
I like all the observations, but Kubiak said it himself, we will stop the run first, and gap responsibility is very important to run stopping. I think if you look at the games we've won so far, now that sounds good, our D is doing an outstanding job at "bend don't break" holding back the scoring of the Rams & Chiefs. If you look at the talent we have at the D-line moving folks around good be great for all the linemen, Weaver, Kalu, Peek, Williams, Smith, Payne, Babin, & Johnson, and all these guys have moved up and down the line, so all this means that Smith and his crew can make his wildest dreams and schemes come true.
:superman:

real
08-22-2006, 03:59 PM
This is what I mean buy cutting him loose, and after watching this video, you tell me Mario does not have a swim move or that he does not have a outside burn move (outside burn more - getting up field as fast as possible to get you OT to follow you and then burn inside to get to the QB, Mario does it very well). They are not letting Mario show anything in the preseason, the tape does not lie. Oh and I know that this is the NFL but my argument is that Mario sits on the line of scrimage during the preseason games and plays run / outside containment. When the leash is taken off, this will be the guy against Philly, do not kid yourself. I hope I dont get in trouble for putting this link on this post. Oh and watch this video and tell me Mario was not deserving of a #1 pick. Florida State is not Fresno State LOL!

http://video.yahoo.com/video/play?p=mario+williams&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8&b=0&oid=62f8cd8723822c50&rurl=sports.yahoo.com&vdone=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%2Fvide o%3Fp%3Dmario%2Bwilliams%26toggle%3D1%26cop%3D%26e i%3DUTF-8

Mario had one decent to good swim move in that video...most of what he did was strength, and speed....Nothing he did can be done against quality NFL lineman, and you do realize that a lot of those plays were repeats from different angles...right ?

Divebomb
08-22-2006, 04:29 PM
Yes I do know alot of the college film is from different angles, my point is the guy on that film got up field and got after it. The guy this preseason, holds the edge and stands up his lineman. Here is a thought. On run plays Mario jams his lineman at the point of attack and holds the edge containment. I give that an A+ on job responsibility as a DE vers. the run. On Third down pass plays he has not once got up field and tried a move. He hits the OT and maintains the line of scrimage. Anyone who knows anything about football knows that on thrid down and 4 or more yards you have the DE pin the ears back and go, not lock up with the OT at the line. Week one he did it and I thought o.k. he needs some work. Week two I see it and I say something is going on. After seeing him on that stunt inside it clicked to me they are holding this guy back. He could be reaking havoc but the are holding back.

RiotCommander
08-22-2006, 04:33 PM
Yes I do know alot of the college film is from different angles, my point is the guy on that film got up field and got after it. The guy this preseason, holds the edge and stands up his lineman. Here is a thought. On run plays Mario jams his lineman at the point of attack and holds the edge containment. I give that an A+ on job responsibility as a DE vers. the run. On Third down pass plays he has not once got up field and tried a move. He hits the OT and maintains the line of scrimage. Anyone who knows anything about football knows that on thrid down and 4 or more yards you have the DE pin the ears back and go, not lock up with the OT at the line. Week one he did it and I thought o.k. he needs some work. Week two I see it and I say something is going on. After seeing him on that stunt inside it clicked to me they are holding this guy back. He could be reaking havoc but the are holding back.


I know where you are coming from usually the only time you don't speed rush the outside is when your afraid of the QB taking off. At Denver that would be a problem, but not against the Rams. Also you could have a Linebacker fill the hole left. But you knew that :P

real
08-22-2006, 04:35 PM
On Third down pass plays he has not once got up field and tried a move. He hits the OT and maintains the line of scrimage.

That is an invalid statement...I remember one play specifically where he rushed up field and the tackle welcomed him to the NFL by abruptly pushing him past the QB and out of the play...He tried to spin back up field, but the tackle used his technique and Mario got no where near the QB...Look...Mario hasn't played spectacular because he isn't spectacular...YET....What you are saying doesn't make sense...Why put him on the field and then tell him "hey, when they pass, don't sack 'em"...1) he could get hurt not going all out 2) this is the NFL

Those moves he made in college don't work against quality tackles...And normally it takes a series of moves...

TexanFan4Life
08-22-2006, 04:41 PM
Folks,

I hope some of you got to watch the series on ESPN called "Welcome to the NFL" last year. It showed the Vikings teaching their first round draft pick, defensive end Keneche Udeze, how to use the head slap, swim move, and other nuances to help him be a better player. I do believe Texan Chick when she says that Coach Bob is teaching him the finer points of being an animal at DE. This show also showed D-Rob in his first year being coached up by Coach Hoke and all the techniques he wasn't shown in college. It has always been my personal belief that the coaching in college is inferior to the NFL. I also remember seeing a new right tackle for the Giants being shown proper footwork, as well as other things that weren't taught to him in at any college level. So maybe he needs to have his learning curve just like anyone else. Heaven help those QB's when he does get it!!!!!!!!!!

RiotCommander
08-22-2006, 04:42 PM
Folks,

I hope some of you got to watch the series on ESPN called "Welcome to the NFL" last year. It showed the Vikings teaching their first round draft pick, defensive end Keneche Udeze, how to use the head slap, swim move, and other nuances to help him be a better player. I do believe Texan Chick when she says that Coach Bob is teaching him the finer points of being an animal at DE. This show also showed D-Rob in his first year being coached up by Coach Hoke and all the techniques he wasn't shown in college. It has always been my personal belief that the coaching in college is inferior to the NFL. I also remember seeing a new right tackle for the Giants being shown proper footwork, as well as other things that weren't taught to him in at any college level. So maybe he needs to have his learning curve just like anyone else. Heaven help those QB's when he does get it!!!!!!!!!!

You sure about the head slap? Almost sure that was sort of an illegal move now.

TexanFan4Life
08-22-2006, 04:44 PM
A tiny version of it with a forearm maybe. Either way, he was learning some cool new stuff.

Double Barrel
08-22-2006, 04:52 PM
The great Bruce Smith said it takes a couple of years to really adjust to the NFL as a DE.

Now I think Mario has a ton of talent and will be a great player, but even the greats have a learning curve.

I like the thinking behind this thread, however, because there could be something to it. But I'm more inclined to believe that Mario is a rookie learning the ropes and adjusting to the speed and strength of the NFL, and that's what we're seeing right now.

I certainly hope your speculation is right, though. I'd love to see a defensive monster unleashed in our first game. It's a sure-fire way to win games.

Trapped
08-22-2006, 04:54 PM
I see more Richard Seymour than Julius Peppers in Mario. He's somewhere in between.

humbleone
08-22-2006, 05:24 PM
Good post Dive bomb...very interesting observations and conclusions. I'm not sure though that "holding any player back" is consistent with what we are seeing from the Kubiak and company.

I see the opposite (not taking anything away from your specific points about Mario)...everyone flying around big-time. They even have PBuc looking more aggressive. I will be watching him closely this week however for what you are saying. Is it possible they could have drilled into him that "we want you to show us on the field that you can stop the run cold"..."we already know you can get to the QB"? Yeah I buy that could be possible.

This would be the opposite of the way we coached up Peek for example.

real
08-22-2006, 05:29 PM
Is it possible they could have drilled into him that "we want you to show us on the field that you can stop the run cold"..."we already know you can get to the QB"? Yeah I buy that could be possible.



I wouldn't even buy that...That wouldn't make sense either, because you want to practice how you play...If he was always focused on the run that would take away from his pass rushing ability...IMHO, I don't think Mario is going to be the sack artist that people think he is going to be...He is going to be one hell of a DE, but I don't look for him to put up monster sack numbers ever...

BigDTexansFan
08-22-2006, 06:10 PM
Check out his highlight video on youtube he just seemed so much stronger than most of the guys a bull rush was all he needed... saw one of reggie whites moves in there though.. check it out if you havent already..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5R8y4gxE88


I maybe wrong, but it looked to me like Mario was using his arms and not just doing a bull rush:yahoo:

Divebomb
08-22-2006, 06:40 PM
Only time will tell folk's, and I think it is great that everyone for the most part is behind this guy. I think he is going to surprise everyone game one in Philly. Peek is going to have a monster year and before the year is finnished people will compare those two to Mathis/Freeny out in Indy. Give them some time. You gotta believe in these guys!

bayoudreamn
08-22-2006, 09:11 PM
Also, remember early on in training camp how Mario was reaking havoc against our Oline? Now it seems that he has either slowed down, or everyone else has just caught up. I'd put some faith in the fact that the coaches are maybe covering :spy: up his talent.

Conspiracy theory at it's best.

Dale

ok, ok, ok.....Mario has magic toenails. That's why they took them out. They're putting them back in on Sept. 7th.

jdog
08-22-2006, 09:14 PM
ok, ok, ok.....Mario has magic toenails. That's why they took them out. They're putting them back in on Sept. 7th.

Funny. They should put one of the magic toe nails in TJ. :hides:

HJam72
08-22-2006, 09:18 PM
I guess Morency didn't cut his toenails this week. :) Football is catching up with baseball in the superstition dept.

dat_boy_yec
08-22-2006, 11:01 PM
I gotta disagree somewhat with what has been said so far. I watched the video and thought he did a great swim move at the 45 second mark and then again at the 2 min 5 second on the video. They weren't replays because if you look at the line-up the first one a tight end flew out into a pattern while the second one he was on an island. Both times Mario did a great swim move and showed great speed.

What I'm thinking isn't that Kubiak is holding him back, but that Mario is overthinking when he is out on the field. That to me explains why he stands straight up at times, because he may be struggling to know what it is he is supposed to do. Against the Rams he pushed to far up and then seemed to remember he was supposed to to a stunt he fell down in the process of pulling back. It's alot of information he is digesting and processing out there. I mean I don't know how many people caught it, but he even dropped into coverage in the Rams game. I can't blame the guy he not only has to line up in different positions, but has different assigments at each one and he has to be sure of what he's doing right after the defensive play is called.

Once he settles down and gets his assigments down, then I'm sure his moves will develop. Each week you see small steps and this week I'm sure we'll see him progress a little more as he's settling into his duties and this week I'm sure we'll see him attempt some more things and see him feeling more comfortable.

I think he is much faster than Seymore and stronger than Peppers, yeah he is a mixture of both players in a way, but that same mixture will help him match and maybe there we hope surpass his counterparts.

GO TEXANS!!!!

edo783
08-22-2006, 11:18 PM
All the bouncing around and boatloads of different assigments bothers me a bit. It would seem to me that with a rookie you would work him into one spot to a modest level of comfort and then try another. All this bopping around is probably contibuting to the over thinking. We have very good coaches, so I'm sure they know what they are doing. It just seems counter to what I would have expected.

Divebomb
08-22-2006, 11:39 PM
BroussardSaint I do not believe this will be the case. He has already proven to me that he is awesome. He does his job, no one has bounced any runs outside, and he plays well against the double teams. He forces the run inside, he does not get drove off the ball by the o-linemen, and the QB has been pressured. I respect your opinion but I am not going to bite on that crap about how he does in Philly. We will se what he does; I think he is going to bring it! If he struggles then he struggles. I am still going to support the guy and I still believe that the guys motor is on idle right now. Philly game one, we will get to see 1st gear and hopefully by the end of the season the guys is in 5th and wrecking havoc.

Brandon420tx
08-22-2006, 11:42 PM
LMAO!!! I guess if he doesn't do good against Philly, you will have be saying " remember guys it takes a few years for a DE of his calibar to make an impact..."
How many years does it take for a running back to get thrown one-handed into the grass by a linebacker? Just kidding, good luck this season.

veazeyt
08-23-2006, 12:21 AM
I gotta disagree somewhat with what has been said so far. I watched the video and thought he did a great swim move at the 45 second mark and then again at the 2 min 5 second on the video. They weren't replays because if you look at the line-up the first one a tight end flew out into a pattern while the second one he was on an island. Both times Mario did a great swim move and showed great speed.

What I'm thinking isn't that Kubiak is holding him back, but that Mario is overthinking when he is out on the field. That to me explains why he stands straight up at times, because he may be struggling to know what it is he is supposed to do. Against the Rams he pushed to far up and then seemed to remember he was supposed to to a stunt he fell down in the process of pulling back. It's alot of information he is digesting and processing out there. I mean I don't know how many people caught it, but he even dropped into coverage in the Rams game. I can't blame the guy he not only has to line up in different positions, but has different assigments at each one and he has to be sure of what he's doing right after the defensive play is called.



I definitely saw the play where he dropped into coverage. Kub stated that they want to move him around to keep the O-line from zeroing in on him.
On that play where he dropped into coverage, two LBs blitzed.

Smash_Mouth_Mario
08-23-2006, 01:42 AM
LMAO!!! I guess if he doesn't do good against Philly, you will have be saying " remember guys it takes a few years for a DE of his calibar to make an impact..."

Hello, "Texans" fan...

And if Mario gets better and better each game. I guess you wont be saying much. LOL! :D

real
08-23-2006, 08:58 AM
I definitely saw the play where he dropped into coverage. Kub stated that they want to move him around to keep the O-line from zeroing in on him.
On that play where he dropped into coverage, two LBs blitzed.

I think that was Kalu that dropped into coverage...But anywho...I re-watched the Rams Game and my conclusion on Mario is.......BEAST....On the play where he batted the ball, he engaged the tight end first; stood him up on the line, and when he recognized it was pass he rag dolled him out of the way, the RT came over to help, Mario put him on skates, and thats when the QB threw it and Mario Jumped up to hit the ball....On another play I noticed how fast he was....He was on the opposite side of the field when bulger rolled out...Mario tracked him down from the other side of the field and would have been put on trial for murder had bulger not ducked out of bounds at the last second...He is going to catch someone slipping this year, and we are going to see some awesome hits...he is going to absolutely crush some people this year....There were many other plays, and in fact Mario didn't have too many bad plays, and always made the lineman he was facing look physically overmatched...All Mario needs to do is calm down, get his technique right, and let 'er rip...:mario:...OH...and one more thing...I didn't notice it until rewatching the game, but when he made that play in the backfield on the running back, The offensive lineman had his freakin' arms wrapped around Marios waste...Like how a linebacker would try to tackle a running back...And despite being tackled he was strong enough to make that play...Ladies and gentlemen...Mario is defintely going to live up to that number one pick status...get...outta...town

HOU-TEX
08-23-2006, 11:38 AM
I think that was Kalu that dropped into coverage...But anywho...I re-watched the Rams Game and my conclusion on Mario is.......BEAST....On the play where he batted the ball, he engaged the tight end first; stood him up on the line, and when he recognized it was pass he rag dolled him out of the way, the RT came over to help, Mario put him on skates, and thats when the QB threw it and Mario Jumped up to hit the ball....On another play I noticed how fast he was....He was on the opposite side of the field when bulger rolled out...Mario tracked him down from the other side of the field and would have been put on trial for murder had bulger not ducked out of bounds at the last second...He is going to catch someone slipping this year, and we are going to see some awesome hits...he is going to absolutely crush some people this year....There were many other plays, and in fact Mario didn't have too many bad plays, and always made the lineman he was facing look physically overmatched...All Mario needs to do is calm down, get his technique right, and let 'er rip...:mario:...OH...and one more thing...I didn't notice it until rewatching the game, but when he made that play in the backfield on the running back, The offensive lineman had his freakin' arms wrapped around Marios waste...Like how a linebacker would try to tackle a running back...And despite being tackled he was strong enough to make that play...Ladies and gentlemen...Mario is defintely going to live up to that number one pick status...get...outta...town

Very nicely put:yahoo: Let's hope his progression keeps improving come Sunday. We're going to need him.:fireball: