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infantrycak
08-20-2006, 11:10 AM
Every year there is a lot of dicussion about who is responsible for sacks so maybe we can keep a running discussion on each one. Hopefully there won't be many to discuss.

Pre-season Sack 1--Texans @ Rams--1st qtr 14:16

I'd put this one squarely on Lundy failing to pick up the blitzing LB.

Carr Bombed
08-20-2006, 11:22 AM
I agree, I saw a replay of the entire 1st quarter and the Oline was doing a good job, Lundy just didn't pick up the blitz.

AFD1717
08-20-2006, 11:23 AM
That's not unusual for a rookie RB.

RiotCommander
08-20-2006, 11:24 AM
Lundy cannot block anyone period. I'm just thankful that Morency was quickly put in to shore up that problem. He did an outstanding job stopping anyone coming in.

infantrycak
08-20-2006, 11:39 AM
Lundy cannot block anyone period.

Little early to be making that determination. Blocking is something most RB's have to work on once they hit the NFL and is coachable. They need to get him cut blocking the way Morency was repeatedly.

RiotCommander
08-20-2006, 11:41 AM
Little early to be making that determination. Blocking is something most RB's have to work on once they hit the NFL and is coachable. They need to get him cut blocking the way Morency was repeatedly.


Guess I should have said "was not able to block anyone". The only time I noticed him stopping anyone was that time he got called for holding. I will have to wait to watch the game again to see if I missed any. :)

Brandyon
08-20-2006, 11:54 AM
Lundy cannot block anyone period. I'm just thankful that Morency was quickly put in to shore up that problem. He did an outstanding job stopping anyone coming in.

I agree. Though not picking up is a common rookie mistake. He just needs some time. Morency looked outstanding though

TexansTailg8r
08-20-2006, 12:03 PM
I would imagine that Kubes will have a film session with him. He'll show better effort next game. :lightbulb:

Double Barrel
08-20-2006, 01:08 PM
Even for pre-season games, the fact that we've only seen one sack is encouraging. :thumbup

Jwwillis
08-20-2006, 01:45 PM
Every year there is a lot of dicussion about who is responsible for sacks so maybe we can keep a running discussion on each one. Hopefully there won't be many to discuss.

Pre-season Sack 1--Texans @ Rams--1st qtr 14:16

I'd put this one squarely on Lundy failing to pick up the blitzing LB.

True, but there are things Carr may have done to avoid the sack. It looked as if he could have stepped up in the pocket instead running into the defender. We have seen him do this before. Of couse this is easier said than done with the speed in the NFL.

Jwwillis
08-20-2006, 02:20 PM
]']One sack in two games...... the sky is falling!

209 sacks in 5yrs....Things are fixed in pre-season BEFORE the sky falls.

Runner
08-20-2006, 02:40 PM
]']One sack in two games...... the sky is falling!

As Sports Illustrated would say, signs the apocalypse is upon us.

Hervoyel
08-20-2006, 03:27 PM
I agree. Though not picking up is a common rookie mistake. He just needs some time. Morency looked outstanding though

True, and last season Morency looked not much better than Lundy does now so clearly it can be taught.

Also I think the Texans as a team (and we as fans of that team) tend to be a little over sensative to sacks. It's understandable considering our brief history but one sack in two games is outstanding. I distinctly saw the jitters kick into high gear when Carr took that sack. I got that feeling in the pit of my stomach when it happened. Carr calmed down and kept on going which is what he needs to do. Everybody is going to get sacked and he's going to have to learn that a couple of sacks aren't the end of the world and don't mean (anymore) that 7 or 8 more are coming that day.

the wonger need food
08-20-2006, 03:52 PM
I'd put this one on Carr for not stepping up. IMO, he ran himself into this sack.

infantrycak
08-20-2006, 04:33 PM
I'd put this one on Carr for not stepping up. IMO, he ran himself into this sack.

I saw this comment in your other thread and went back to watch it a couple more times figuring you would restate it here. Lundy got run back right in front of Carr--there was no step up into the pocket available. He tried to get to the side working against the rusher's momentum but didn't get far enough in time. There was zero running into the sack. There will undoubtedly be times when Carr is at fault, but this one isn't an example unless you are of the mindset that the price of gas is his fault also.

True, but there are things Carr may have done to avoid the sack. It looked as if he could have stepped up in the pocket instead running into the defender. We have seen him do this before. Of couse this is easier said than done with the speed in the NFL.

There was no step forward available--Lundy and the Defender came so far in they were directly in front of Carr. Carr has failed to step up before, but this time it wasn't available.

mamoo
08-20-2006, 04:51 PM
When I talked to Lundy, he said the most important thing for any running back is to be able to pick up the blitz. So he knows and will learn from his mistake.

NoBullTexan
08-20-2006, 04:52 PM
Now, if and when Dominick Davis gets back, lets hope he has picked up on the way Morency is blocking, and takes it to heart. Or was it the buffoons we used to call coaches last year unable to coach that one little aspect of the game? Guess so. Results speak for themselves.

What beats me is we should all be hoping that Carr is the QB to finally take us over the top in the won-loss column. If we are waiting on Sage or another QB to do it, it is going to be a long wait, IMO.

Hulk75
08-20-2006, 04:53 PM
Every year there is a lot of dicussion about who is responsible for sacks so maybe we can keep a running discussion on each one. Hopefully there won't be many to discuss.

Pre-season Sack 1--Texans @ Rams--1st qtr 14:16

I'd put this one squarely on Lundy failing to pick up the blitzing LB.
Lundy. Lets not label him yet as a guy that cant block, I just dont think he was asked to do it a lot in NCAA.

edo783
08-20-2006, 05:05 PM
I saw this comment in your other thread and went back to watch it a couple more times figuring you would restate it here. Lundy got run back right in front of Carr--there was no step up into the pocket available. He tried to get to the side working against the rusher's momentum but didn't get far enough in time. There was zero running into the sack. There will undoubtedly be times when Carr is at fault, but this one isn't an example unless you are of the mindset that the price of gas is his fault also.



There was no step forward available--Lundy and the Defender came so far in they were directly in front of Carr. Carr has failed to step up before, but this time it wasn't available.

I would give you some rep for the post CAK, but it says I have to waite. Interesting how some see things that didn't actually happen.

done88
08-20-2006, 05:18 PM
I replayed that is slow motion a few times. Carr went back too far. There was clearly a pocket and if Carr had stepped into it then Lundy's block would have been fine. Instear Carr kept going back, Lundy attacked the inside leg of the defender who went outsid and made Lundy look bad. David is going to have to learn to trust the line as much as the runningbacks. Later in the game I saw him step into the pocket a couple of times. Hopefully some of Kubiack's yelling sank in on him.

infantrycak
08-20-2006, 05:21 PM
I replayed that is slow motion a few times. Carr went back too far.

So Carr was supposed to change the design of the play and only drop 5 instead of 7? That's not how it works--it was a 7 step drop play and the play was already broken when his foot hit the 7th step.

bayoudreamn
08-20-2006, 05:23 PM
I replayed that is slow motion a few times. Carr went back too far. There was clearly a pocket and if Carr had stepped into it then Lundy's block would have been fine. Instear Carr kept going back, Lundy attacked the inside leg of the defender who went outsid and made Lundy look bad. David is going to have to learn to trust the line as much as the runningbacks. Later in the game I saw him step into the pocket a couple of times. Hopefully some of Kubiack's yelling sank in on him.

This is an example of a desperate argument. No point in arguing with desperation.

aj.
08-20-2006, 05:25 PM
The mother of all Carr threads has been created ..... why do y'all keep doing it to yourselves? It's like the new model Terminator has just landed in a blaze of glory....

Two pages - heading for six - arguing about one sack.

Re freaking diculous...

infantrycak
08-20-2006, 05:27 PM
The mother of all Carr threads has been created ..... why do y'all keep doing it to yourselves? It's like a new Terminator has been created all over again.

Two pages - heading for six - arguing about one sack.

Re freaking diculous...

Silly me, now I am regretting it--I thought this sack was going to be an easy one to get things started.

Hulk75
08-20-2006, 05:28 PM
The mother of all Carr threads has been created ..... why do y'all keep doing it to yourselves? It's like the new model Terminator has just landed in a blaze of glory....

Two pages - heading for six - arguing about one sack.

Re freaking diculous...
right on.

the wonger need food
08-20-2006, 05:30 PM
Silly me, now I am regretting it--I thought this sack was going to be an easy one to get things started.

I see a pocket for him to step up into. I think Kubiak yelled at him on the sideline after this play, so I'm guessing that he saw the same thing.

infantrycak
08-20-2006, 05:37 PM
I see a pocket for him to step up into.

Yeah, if he can hurdle the LB who is directly between him and it.

I think Kubiak yelled at him on the sideline after this play, so I'm guessing that he saw the same thing.

This is made up BS. The telecast doesn't cut to the sideline after that play showing any discussion between Carr and Kubiak. It replays the sack and then goes straight to the screen play. The only glimpse you get at all is in passing as the camera tracks Lundy coming off the field after the screen and Carr is standing next to Kubiak who is already turning away and not saying anything.

thunderkyss
08-20-2006, 05:42 PM
even if the pocket is up and to the right, the point is he could have easily stepped up, to put Lundy between him and the defender again.

But he definitely didn't walk into this blitz....... I'm certain of that. & he shouldn't be expected to do something do things because someone else made a mistake. Had he stepped up, that would have been a great play. As it stands, Lundy put David in a bad position.

the wonger need food
08-20-2006, 05:57 PM
Yeah, if he can hurdle the LB who is directly between him and it.



This is made up BS. The telecast doesn't cut to the sideline after that play showing any discussion between Carr and Kubiak. It replays the sack and then goes straight to the screen play. The only glimpse you get at all is in passing as the camera tracks Lundy coming off the field after the screen and Carr is standing next to Kubiak who is already turning away and not saying anything.

I see what you're saying am changing my vote to Lundy. The LB is right in front of him by the time his back foot plants. That's not to say that he couldn't have avoided it if he would have shuffled left and up, but that's asking a lot, especially of a QB that has never really had any pocket presence.

Hottoddie
08-20-2006, 06:31 PM
For all those that can't do anything but find fault with Carr's every move, why don't you go root for another team? Carr is our starting QB & will be as long as he's healthy. Get over yourselves & get used to it!

And now, I give you the nutcracker dance. :bananasplit: :thud:

Vinny
08-20-2006, 06:31 PM
Yeah, if he can hurdle the LB who is directly between him and it.



This is made up BS. The telecast doesn't cut to the sideline after that play showing any discussion between Carr and Kubiak. It replays the sack and then goes straight to the screen play. The only glimpse you get at all is in passing as the camera tracks Lundy coming off the field after the screen and Carr is standing next to Kubiak who is already turning away and not saying anything. http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2006/08/carr_gets_earful_from_kubiak.html

Carr gets earful from Kubiak
Wow! Kubiak berated Carr when the offense came off the field after its first series. Carr was sacked for a 14-yard loss when Lundy failed to pick up linebacker Pia Tinoisamoa. Running backs coach Chick Harris wasn't as rough on Lundy when he reached the sideline. After all, Lundy's just a rookie.

Kubiak was on Carr BEFORE he reached the sideline. They were still in deep discussion when the Rams had their first offensive play.

infantrycak
08-20-2006, 06:41 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2006/08/carr_gets_earful_from_kubiak.html

Well that's nice and all, but Carr didn't come off the field after the sack, it was after the next play and McClain has no idea what the yelling was about so it might have been about any of the plays in the series--if all I saw was a heated discussion after that series I would bet it was about not hitting a receiver down field at some point rather than about the sack. Kubiak mentioned that problem in his presser--"He has to get the ball in a couple of situations to a few receivers." He is also exagerating since the small bit you get to see in the game has Kubiak turning to walk away as the team is still coming off the field from the screen play before the punt so it wasn't "still" going on all the way to the Rams' possession.

Jwwillis
08-20-2006, 06:43 PM
even if the pocket is up and to the right, the point is he could have easily stepped up, to put Lundy between him and the defender again.

But he definitely didn't walk into this blitz....... I'm certain of that. & he shouldn't be expected to do something do things because someone else made a mistake. Had he stepped up, that would have been a great play. As it stands, Lundy put David in a bad position.

Can you imagine this statment coming from a hall of fame QB?

"You can't expect me to make a play if someone on my team makes a mistake."

Kubiak:

"I told David that the Rams have an aggressive defense, and when they come after us, he's got to make those plays," Kubiak said. "I felt there were seven or eight times when we could have made plays.

"I was disappointed in some things early, but he battled back. He knows I'm just trying to make him better."

bayoudreamn
08-20-2006, 06:45 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2006/08/carr_gets_earful_from_kubiak.html

You're quoting McClain? Nuff said.

edo783
08-20-2006, 07:02 PM
," Kubiak said. "I felt there were seven or eight times when we could have made plays.

"I was disappointed in some things early, but he battled back. He knows I'm just trying to make him better."

If you go to his presser artical, the seven or eight times seem to have been different than what he did. In other words it's not that he didn't make a play, but that he could have made bigger/better plays. Big difference between no play and a better play. We need him to see/hit the big ones and that is a confidence thing and I think that will come. I suspect that he is fighting off some of the crap coaching that he had that said "Only do this" and he isn't used/confident yet in just winging it if it's there.

thunderkyss
08-20-2006, 07:24 PM
Can you imagine this statment coming from a hall of fame QB?

"You can't expect me to make a play if someone on my team makes a mistake."

Kubiak:

"I told David that the Rams have an aggressive defense, and when they come after us, he's got to make those plays," Kubiak said. "I felt there were seven or eight times when we could have made plays.

"I was disappointed in some things early, but he battled back. He knows I'm just trying to make him better."

As true as that may be, we can't blame David for that sack...... it was all Lundy.

Jwwillis
08-20-2006, 07:50 PM
Every year there is a lot of dicussion about who is responsible for sacks so maybe we can keep a running discussion on each one. Hopefully there won't be many to discuss.

Pre-season Sack 1--Texans @ Rams--1st qtr 14:16

I'd put this one squarely on Lundy failing to pick up the blitzing LB.

Kubiak doesn't, "put this one squarely on Lundy" Does his opinion count?

“Formation-wise we had him (Lundy) in a tough position to block that edge blitz,” Kubiak said. “I wouldn’t say he missed his assignment. He just didn’t do a very good job off the edge; on David’s sack he could have done a better job. But David could have gotten the ball out quicker, we could have gotten our eyes around the route, there were a lot of cutters there. It all goes together but that’s something that our backs will have to do better.”

Thunderkyss:

"As true as that may be, we can't blame David for that sack...... it was all Lundy."

Kubiak and I are obviously not one of the "we".

Jwwillis
08-20-2006, 07:53 PM
If you go to his presser artical, the seven or eight times seem to have been different than what he did. In other words it's not that he didn't make a play, but that he could have made bigger/better plays. Big difference between no play and a better play. We need him to see/hit the big ones and that is a confidence thing and I think that will come. I suspect that he is fighting off some of the crap coaching that he had that said "Only do this" and he isn't used/confident yet in just winging it if it's there.

Kubiak:

“Formation-wise we had him (Lundy) in a tough position to block that edge blitz,” Kubiak said. “I wouldn’t say he missed his assignment. He just didn’t do a very good job off the edge; on David’s sack he could have done a better job. But David could have gotten the ball out quicker, we could have gotten our eyes around the route, there were a lot of cutters there. It all goes together but that’s something that our backs will have to do better."

I think maybe your wrong, one of those 7 or 8 WAS that play.

infantrycak
08-20-2006, 08:14 PM
Kubiak doesn't, "put this one squarely on Lundy" Does his opinion count?

“Formation-wise we had him (Lundy) in a tough position to block that edge blitz,” Kubiak said. “I wouldn’t say he missed his assignment. He just didn’t do a very good job off the edge; on David’s sack he could have done a better job. But David could have gotten the ball out quicker, we could have gotten our eyes around the route, there were a lot of cutters there. It all goes together but that’s something that our backs will have to do better.”

So David could have gotten the ball out during his drop?--interesting comment. I still don't see that paragraph as saying primary responsibility for the sack was on Carr. Does primary vs. squarely solve the issue for you or are you really saying most of the fault for that sack was on Carr?

Jwwillis
08-20-2006, 08:30 PM
So David could have gotten the ball out during his drop?--interesting comment. I still don't see that paragraph as saying primary responsibility for the sack was on Carr. Does primary vs. squarely solve the issue for you or are you really saying most of the fault for that sack was on Carr?

Im saying blame is shared on a good team.

RTP2110
08-20-2006, 08:31 PM
Wow just wow. It was one sack. Both guys (Lundy & Carr) could have done a little different/better. Not a big deal, that's what preseason is for. Both with be coached to fix this in the future.

Jwwillis
08-20-2006, 08:35 PM
Wow just wow. It was one sack. Both guys (Lundy & Carr) could have done a little different/better. Not a big deal, that's what preseason is for. Both with be coached to fix this in the future.

I am simply replying to a thread titled "Sack Responsibility"

RTP2110
08-20-2006, 08:40 PM
I am simply replying to a thread titled "Sack Responsibility"

Sorry, I wasn't directing that post to you in particular. Just to that fact that as aj said, we have 2 pages going on 6 about 1 sack.

Jwwillis
08-20-2006, 08:44 PM
Sorry, I wasn't directing that post to you in particular. Just to that fact that as aj said, we have 2 pages going on 6 about 1 sack.

Wonder if A.J gave it the 5 star?

infantrycak
08-20-2006, 08:50 PM
Im saying blame is shared on a good team.

Good point. My bad for saying squarely instead of primarily. Maybe in the future we can reduce the haggling by looking for the person most at fault.

Jwwillis
08-20-2006, 08:55 PM
Good point. My bad for saying squarely instead of primarily. Maybe in the future we can reduce the haggling by looking for the person most at fault.

In that case I would say Lundy. His holding call followed by poor blocking on the sack killed that drive. Maybe we can put this to rest now. :stirpot:

Smash_Mouth_Mario
08-20-2006, 09:56 PM
When I talked to Lundy, he said the most important thing for any running back is to be able to pick up the blitz. So he knows and will learn from his mistake.


I'm glad we are talking about this. I don't want this to be an Achilles heel for Lundy. Or else our opponents will take advangte of it when he's on the field and Carr will pay for it! :(

Great that he has competion from Morency. Maybe he can show Lundy how it's done! :)

TK_Gamer
08-21-2006, 01:39 AM
lundy has had several sub par blocking assingnments, cook blocks but doesnt block anything, morency looks like he has improved drasticly with runnng as well as blocking. but unless daniels can play fb and pass block, we seriously need to pick someone up, even if we gotta spend a draft pick to do it. come on guys its not like this is the first time we have had trouble with non blocking backs. do I need to remind you why wells wasnt starter material? how bout even davis? we havent had a pass blocking back in our history.the line can stop all but the blitzing lb'ers off the edge, only a roll out or a blocking back is gonna give carr the 4 seconds he needs.

thunderkyss
08-21-2006, 07:50 AM
Kubiak:

“Formation-wise we had him (Lundy) in a tough position to block that edge blitz,” Kubiak said. “I wouldn’t say he missed his assignment. He just didn’t do a very good job off the edge; on David’s sack he could have done a better job. But David could have gotten the ball out quicker, we could have gotten our eyes around the route, there were a lot of cutters there. It all goes together but that’s something that our backs will have to do better."

I think maybe your wrong, one of those 7 or 8 WAS that play.


He's saying the same thing I said....... there are things David could've done to avoid the sack...... but the sack will go against Lundy....

SESupergenius
08-21-2006, 09:04 AM
I have to wait until I watch the replay tonight because I actually didn't see the game televised, but If Kubiak is yelling at Carr then fantastic, because that shows that Carr can respond to this type of coaching because he went out and led a solid drive for a TD.

Kaiser Toro
08-21-2006, 09:26 AM
I have to wait until I watch the replay tonight because I actually didn't see the game televised, but If Kubiak is yelling at Carr then fantastic, because that shows that Carr can respond to this type of coaching because he went out and led a solid drive for a TD.

We know that Carr and Sage can lead drives against second team defenses. We are waiting to see one of them do it against a first team defense with consistency.

SESupergenius
08-21-2006, 09:36 AM
I suspect this next game should tell alot because A) Carr will be playing the entire 1st half again against 1st teams. B) Kubiak will prepare better for this game and scheme against the defense. You should see Carr roll out this game unlike the last one. C) Kubiak will be fixing whatever Carr is lacking in recognition.

Denver is going to be a huge benchmark for us, I don't think we've ever won 3 games in a row. Besides that, they are a playoff team and we need to measure our offense against that. Their defense knows all of the tricks of our offense and we'll see what Carr can do.

Kaiser Toro
08-21-2006, 09:39 AM
I suspect this next game should tell alot because A) Carr will be playing the entire 1st half again against 1st teams. B) Kubiak will prepare better for this game and scheme against the defense. You should see Carr roll out this game unlike the last one. C) Kubiak will be fixing whatever Carr is lacking in recognition.

Denver is going to be a huge benchmark for us, I don't think we've ever won 3 games in a row. Besides that, they are a playoff team and we need to measure our offense against that. Their defense knows all of the tricks of our offense and we'll see what Carr can do.

Totally agree. Full playbook and something to prove for the Texans staff and their QB makes for an interesting 1st half.

thunderkyss
08-21-2006, 11:39 AM
Their defense knows all of the tricks of our offense and we'll see what Carr can do.


And that may very well have been the reason for a more straight up approach to StL............. against Denver, we'll probably mix it up a bit, to keep them on their toes.......

and with so many teams assimilating the zoneblocking into their games, maybe it is time the approach is adapted......

Jwwillis
08-21-2006, 01:34 PM
He's saying the same thing I said....... there are things David could've done to avoid the sack...... but the sack will go against Lundy....

"he shouldn't be expected to do something do things because someone else made a mistake."

HUH???

El Tejano
08-21-2006, 02:27 PM
I feel like Lundy picked up the blitz but his techinque was not good.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
08-21-2006, 03:32 PM
]']One sack in two games...... the sky is falling!

I expected Carr to go an entire season without getting sacked.:sarcasm:

Kaiser Toro
08-21-2006, 04:13 PM
I expected Carr to go an entire season without getting sacked.:sarcasm:

What many figured was that less sacks would equate to more output from Carr. The collective result by the Texans is undeniable.

hollywood_texan
08-21-2006, 04:31 PM
What many figured was that less sacks would equate to more output from Carr. The collective result by the Texans in undeniable.

Very well said.

We'll see if that trend continues into the regular season.

The running game has been solid in the preseason to provide decent offensive performance the first two games. If the running game goes away, it doesn't look good thus far.

chuckm
08-21-2006, 04:33 PM
First there was THE DRIVE (John Elway), then there was THE CATCH (Dwight Clark), now there is THE SACK (David Carr).......

Kaiser Toro
08-21-2006, 04:34 PM
First there was THE DRIVE (John Elway), then there was THE CATCH (Dwight Clark), now there is THE SACK (David Carr).......

And the Sack leaves the Drive and the Catch in the dust in the amount of threads and posts that they have spawned. ;)

chuckm
08-21-2006, 04:40 PM
And the Sack leaves the Drive and the Catch in the dust in the amount of threads and posts that they have spawned. ;)


I'm not even gonna attempt to leave you Rep ..... you're way over the limit, as am I .....

hollywood_texan
08-21-2006, 07:16 PM
First there was THE DRIVE (John Elway), then there was THE CATCH (Dwight Clark), now there is THE SACK (David Carr).......

I thought THE CATCH came before THE DRIVE...

bayoudreamn
08-22-2006, 12:19 AM
We know that Carr and Sage can lead drives against second team defenses. We are waiting to see one of them do it against a first team defense with consistency.

LOL. I watched Indy the other night, they were very crisp on the first drive. Starters left soon after. Kubes preaches that we have a long way to go....it shows at times....but we're getting there....gotta have faith!

jtijerina32
08-22-2006, 01:51 AM
Lundy cannot block anyone period. I'm just thankful that Morency was quickly put in to shore up that problem. He did an outstanding job stopping anyone coming in.

dont get me wrong morency did a great job in both rushing and picking up the blocks but lundy is still learning on how to play the game at its highest level we just need to give him time to adjust and learn some things on the way isnt that what the preseason is for

HJam72
08-22-2006, 05:01 AM
dont get me wrong morency did a great job in both rushing and picking up the blocks but lundy is still learning on how to play the game at its highest level we just need to give him time to adjust and learn some things on the way isnt that what the preseason is for

Yes, but it will probably take a lot longer than one preseason.

Scooter
08-22-2006, 05:59 AM
i dont think it'll take lundy too long to adjust to pass blocking, especially the way he's currently playing. lundy's obviously fearless, and that's a lot of his problem. he tries to stand up the defensive players and out muscle them ... a noble thought for a runningback, but that wont work outside of training camp. obviously it's just fine to block ryans at camp when he's not allowed to hit the qb, but when tinoisamoa has "kill" writtin across his helmet, standing there hoping to catch him is going to get carr flattened. it's something that in that condition, will be easy to fix however. sherman & kubiak will have lundy using that strength and trying to create a realistic balance by throwing more cut blocks on the outside and using his stand up technique to plug blitzes up the middle.

there are 2 words that need to be remembered throughout this preseason & regular season ... "kubiak" and "sherman". for the first time in our short history, everything is coachable. we will be good, if not this year (i'm not that naive, but i am that optomistic), then next. if you want to worry about pass blocking, pitts & weary looked the worst against the rams, not our 6th round rookie runningback. be patient folks.

Runner
08-22-2006, 06:15 AM
Silly me, now I am regretting it--I thought this sack was going to be an easy one to get things started.

I thought this would be a good thread too. It would have been nice to take a serious, focused look at sack responsibility while they were fresh on everyone's minds and DVRs. It's disappointing when the theory of a good thread meets the reality of the fact that Carr is one of the people that must be discussed as part of the thread.

However, the points that were made on the narrow topic were good to read. Overall I think we should give this thread further trial after the Denver game.

infantrycak
08-22-2006, 07:39 AM
Overall I think we should give this thread further trial after the Denver game.

See, I'm hoping there won't be anything to discuss. :cool:

HJam72
08-22-2006, 07:43 AM
See, I'm hoping there won't be anything to discuss. :cool:

Shoot, I was hoping this was a "who gets the REAL credit for our defensive sacks" thread. Yeah, hopefully there won't be many to discuss.

Runner
08-22-2006, 08:06 AM
See, I'm hoping there won't be anything to discuss. :cool:

We can always roast the linemen who let the defender get "to close" to the QB on a successful play.

Texan Asylum
08-22-2006, 09:00 AM
Watched the game for the first time last night. It is apparent that there's alot of improvement, but alot more to go. I would imagine that the real fruit of the changes made, won't start coming fully together till close to the halfway point in the season. I figure by game 7 or 8, the next generation of "Texans Football" will be very evident.

jtijerina32
08-25-2006, 12:47 AM
Yes, but it will probably take a lot longer than one preseason.

no one said lundy is gonna start when the season starts

infantrycak
08-27-2006, 09:40 PM
Preseason Denver vs. Texans

1st qtr--6:44 Carr's fault--makes a nice shifty play on the 1st guy but has to realize when to get rid of the ball.

1st qtr--3:22 Wiegert--sets up for an outside rush and gets beat inside handily.

Hervoyel
08-27-2006, 10:27 PM
Yep, Weigert got run over on that one. I kept wondering why Wand wasn't playing at LT and how come he's got to hold off Spencer when Weigert seems to me to consistently be in trouble.

I'd think the better of Spencer/Winston would be pushing Weigert to the bench right now. I am (admittedly) just a fan though so what do I know.

Runner
08-27-2006, 10:38 PM
Hard to say. Weigert seems to be getting an easy path to starting. The coaches must think they know what they will get from him in the real games and aren't too worried. That seems out of character for this staff though.

Kaiser Toro
08-27-2006, 10:49 PM
Just saw the highlight and Weigert got eaten for petit dejeuner. Getting your posterior backed up like a Sir Mix-a-lot single ain't going to cut it metphorically speaking in the NFL.

WILLIEG
08-27-2006, 11:08 PM
Hard to say. Weigert seems to be getting an easy path to starting. The coaches must think they know what they will get from him in the real games and aren't too worried. That seems out of character for this staff though.
I totally agree that Weigert is getting an easy path. Winston has been holding up his well enough to take that postion over sooner or later. I'm still not fixed on Spencer over ther at the LT postion either.

infantrycak
08-27-2006, 11:11 PM
Folks--let's try not to turn this into a position battle thread and keep it a discussion purely of responsibility for sacks.

WILLIEG
08-27-2006, 11:14 PM
Folks--let's try not to turn this into a position battle thread and keep it a discussion purely of responsibility for sacks.
OK, Weigert sucked tonight and it showed by Carr geting his *** sacked again.

Jwwillis
08-28-2006, 01:37 PM
I agree one on Carr one on Weigart.

thunderkyss
08-28-2006, 01:58 PM
Preseason Denver vs. Texans

1st qtr--6:44 Carr's fault--makes a nice shifty play on the 1st guy but has to realize when to get rid of the ball.

1st qtr--3:22 Wiegert--sets up for an outside rush and gets beat inside handily.

Hey...... can you update/edit your first post, for those who want to keep a running count, but don't want to dig through 5 pages of stuff??

I also agree with this post.

infantrycak
08-28-2006, 02:17 PM
Summary

Pre-season Sack 1--Texans @ Rams--1st qtr 14:16--primarily on Lundy failing to pick up the blitzing LB.

Preseason Sack 2--Texans @ Denver--1st qtr--6:44--primarily on Carr--makes a nice shifty play on the 1st guy but has to realize when to get rid of the ball.

Preseason Sack 3--Texans @ Denver--1st qtr--3:22--Wiegert--sets up for an outside rush and gets beat inside handily.

hollywood_texan
08-28-2006, 02:20 PM
Summary

Pre-season Sack 1--Texans @ Rams--1st qtr 14:16--primarily on Lundy failing to pick up the blitzing LB.

Preseason Sack 2--Texans @ Denver--1st qtr--6:44--primarily on Carr--makes a nice shifty play on the 1st guy but has to realize when to get rid of the ball.

Preseason Sack 3--Texans @ Denver--1st qtr--3:22--Wiegert--sets up for an outside rush and gets beat inside handily.

Are you sure the Rams sack is on Lundy? Carr seemed to be so far back that he wasn't even in the pocket.

If it is on Lundy, then he was completely out of position because the rusher had basically a straight line to Carr.

I thought Kubiak said something that is was more than just Lundy on that play.

real
08-28-2006, 02:21 PM
Are you sure the Rams sack is on Lundy? Carr seemed to be so far back that he wasn't even in the pocket.

If it is on Lundy, then he was completely out of position because the rusher had basically a straight line to Carr.

I thought Kubiak said something that is was more than just Lundy on that play.

Lundy got man-handled...:superman:

hollywood_texan
08-28-2006, 02:26 PM
Lundy got man-handled...:superman:

Then I must be thinking of a play where Carr was only pressured and not sacked.

The play I remember, Lundy couldn't have gotten man handled because the rusher didn't have run threw him or around him to get to Carr.

It looked like to me that someone was out of position. Maybe it was both of them?

infantrycak
08-28-2006, 02:28 PM
Then I must be thinking of a play where Carr was only pressured and not sacked.

The play I remember, Lundy couldn't have gotten man handled because the rusher didn't have run threw him or around him to get to Carr.

It looked like to me that someone was out of position. Maybe it was both of them?

You are probably thinking of the play they called a fumble and then reversed. The Rams sent a two safety blitz--Lundy got one, the other came clean to hit Carr. Didn't go down as a sack, but as an incomplete pass because his arm was in motion.

HOU-TEX
08-28-2006, 02:31 PM
Then I must be thinking of a play where Carr was only pressured and not sacked.

The play I remember, Lundy couldn't have gotten man handled because the rusher didn't have run threw him or around him to get to Carr.

It looked like to me that someone was out of position. Maybe it was both of them?

It was a play where DC made a deep drop back. It looked to be a designed 7 step drop pass play. You're probably just not used to seeing him drop back that far due to normally being sacked by the third step.:)

thunderkyss
08-28-2006, 02:33 PM
You are probably thinking of the play they called a fumble and then reversed. The Rams sent a two safety blitz--Lundy got one, the other came clean to hit Carr. Didn't go down as a sack, but as an incomplete pass because his arm was in motion.

I think he is talking about the play where Moulds ran a lazy out to the first down marker. Carr looked at him, and didn't throw the ball. Then David ran out of the pocket, to the left.

The man trying to get through Spencer/Wand left him to chase the QB.... he got a mit on David, and as he was throwing David to the ground, David tossed the ball about 3 feet in front of Moulds.

I believe Kubiak was saying Carr was more at fault than Wand/Spencer.... if he'd have stayed in the pocket, or threw the ball to Moulds to begin with, all would have been fine.

thunderkyss
08-28-2006, 02:34 PM
Then I must be thinking of a play where Carr was only pressured and not sacked.

The play I remember, Lundy couldn't have gotten man handled because the rusher didn't have run threw him or around him to get to Carr.

It looked like to me that someone was out of position. Maybe it was both of them?

that's right, but on that one, Lundy was out of position alltogether.

Whether David dropped back to far or not, you don't let people run around your backfield for the heck of it.

infantrycak
08-28-2006, 02:35 PM
I took HT's post to be about a play which at least involved Lundy.

hollywood_texan
08-28-2006, 02:35 PM
You are probably thinking of the play they called a fumble and then reversed. The Rams sent a two safety blitz--Lundy got one, the other came clean to hit Carr. Didn't go down as a sack, but as an incomplete pass because his arm was in motion.

I am not confusing it with that one.

That one looked like an exotice blitz package to confuse Carr. It looked like a delayed blitzed and purposesly designed to overload the running back blocker. Lundy took the inside guy and Carr got wacked because the outside game came clean like you said.

Not sure who to blame there.

Would like to hear your thoughts on that one.

infantrycak
08-28-2006, 02:41 PM
That one looked like an exotice blitz package to confuse Carr. It looked like a delayed blitzed and purposesly designed to overload the running back blocker. Lundy took the inside guy and Carr got wacked because the outside game came clean like you said.

Not sure who to blame there.

Would like to hear your thoughts on that one.

That's one I am not sure we have enough information to judge. Maybe one of the OLmen at that gap had responsibility for sliding. Maybe Carr had authority to and should have audibled after recognizing the blitz. Maybe Lundy could have plugged the hole by cut blocking the 1st guy. Maybe a TE didn't release cleanly for a relief throw. In the end it was a free shot at the QB and Carr did the only thing possible getting the incompletion--would have been nice if his arm came forward faster so it was more clearly incomplete rather than a fumble.

hollywood_texan
08-28-2006, 03:48 PM
That's one I am not sure we have enough information to judge. Maybe one of the OLmen at that gap had responsibility for sliding. Maybe Carr had authority to and should have audibled after recognizing the blitz. Maybe Lundy could have plugged the hole by cut blocking the 1st guy. Maybe a TE didn't release cleanly for a relief throw. In the end it was a free shot at the QB and Carr did the only thing possible getting the incompletion--would have been nice if his arm came forward faster so it was more clearly incomplete rather than a fumble.

Totally hear ya, but it also seemed to me to be the perfect call by the defensive coordinator of the Rams.

I think our offense is still showing serious tendacies and is really only succesful at running the ball and some short throws. Carr is going to get more and more blitz's like this unless he can make defenses pay for it.

Tandrisek
08-29-2006, 01:29 PM
Does David Carr lack "touch" on his deep balls? How can you have Andre Johnson, one of the fastest men in the NFL (pro bowl 2005 fastest man competion) continually catching 8 and 9 yard crossing patterns. I was surprised Carr even tried to hit him deep in Denver, I thought he would check down to his running back, as usual.

infantrycak
08-29-2006, 01:31 PM
Welcome to the MB. Not to bust on you right from the get go but please find a thread which is topical for your query. This one is about sacks. There are several threads around debating Carr. Thanks.