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View Full Version : Offense or Defense, which is stonger


BuffSoldier
05-10-2004, 10:11 PM
I thought about it and was wondering, what is the Texans biggest strength? :um: When you think of our D you think of solid experienced veterans, but when you think of the offense your first impulse is young, explosive play-making talent.

Both sides of the ball had its fair share of injuries, but if you were to match up the O and D both healthy, it would be hard to choose a winner.

Davis

Norris

Carr

Johnson Miller/Wade/Wieger/McKinney/Washington/Pitts Gaffney
Glenn Smith Payne Walker Robinson

Babin Foreman Sharper Wong


Earl/Brown Coleman

I give the D the most consistent play, but the O has that X-Factor

Fiddy
05-10-2004, 10:13 PM
Offense, they can be explosive this year. The defense has to prove they can get a "Capers" pass rush.

infantrycak
05-10-2004, 10:25 PM
Difficult question. Dealing with proven talent, if the injuries to the D don't bite the Texans this year, they have decidedly improved upon a top half (2002) D (minus Stevens/Posey, plus Robinson/Peek/McCree/Babins/Smith--is there really a debate here?). On the O side they have improved tremendously but at this point much of it has to do with potential/durability. The safe bet goes to the D, but the high end optimism goes to the O.

As an FYI, last year's superbowl contestants had:

the 16th (Carolina) and 17th (New England) offenses, and
the 7th (New England) and 8th (Carolina) defenses.

Ibar_Harry
05-10-2004, 10:34 PM
I think hands down its the defense simply because the number of coaches and their promenance as far as the defensive side of the ball goes. Offensively we basically have no name coaches and Capers is a big defensive specialist. Their have been some changes this year on the offensive side of the ball, but they simply do not match what has been done with the defense. We have tremendous potential offensively, but we have a coaching depression as far as coaching abilities go. I think this is one area that has to improve if we are to go forward. I think this has been particularly true with respect to the offensive line. I think Capers needs to take a hard look at what his objectives are and I think a number of changes must be made if we are going to think SB.

infantrycak
05-10-2004, 10:39 PM
...we have a coaching depression as far as coaching abilities go. I think this is one area that has to improve if we are to go forward. I think this has been particularly true with respect to the offensive line. I think Capers needs to take a hard look at what his objectives are and I think a number of changes must be made if we are going to think SB.

Please expound on the coaching depression and O-line considerations you are referring to.

bckey
05-11-2004, 09:10 AM
Our defense minus last years injuries and the addition of this years draft wins easily. We were 31st in the league last year on both sides of the ball. We really didn't address anything in the draft offensively. We will have to count on experience and maturity offensively unless we make some aquisitions after June 1st cuts. We have a good defense when healthy and a defensive minded head coach. It can only be better this year with Robinson, Babin, Earl (if healthy), Lord, Orr, Duff, Anderson, Renteria, Casavan, Pili. I think at least 4 or 5 of these guys will make the team and contribute. I can't forget Robaire Smith either. Defense will end up in the top 15.

On the offensive side of the ball I think Sloan and Starling will make the team and help us. B.J. is interesting and I don't count him out as far as making the team. I don't know about OL free agents we signed after the draft but maybe 1 or more will pan out there too. Wade is a big plus! Offense should end up in the 2nd third (11-21) range with experience and maturity in our 3rd year.

*Added predictions where our defence and offence will be this year*

Vinny
05-11-2004, 09:21 AM
I think this has been particularly true with respect to the offensive line. I think Capers needs to take a hard look at what his objectives are and I think a number of changes must be made if we are going to think SB.
Dom Davis ran for 1000 yards in 10 games and David Carr was sacked 16 times last year. Can you help me out here? Those are impressive numbers. Miserable lines do not throw out those kinds of stats.

We have a nice starting lineup on both sides of the ball. We worked on NEEDED depth in the off-season after we took care of 6 (SIX) starting positions that were clearly up in the air at the end of last season. Thats 22% of our starters.

1) Secured Gary Walker who would have been a huge loss if he did not re-sign
2) Signed a RT that was not a journeyman for the first time ever in this franchise. Wade
3) Signed Robaire Smith to complete our starting D-line. We had a career back up starting for our first two years in Deloach.
4) Babin projects to start on the edge. We have not had enough talent on the edge since we started this franchise 32 games ago.
5) Dunta Robinson allows Marcus Coleman to move to FS. This resolves two positions.

After this, we added several players with outstanding athletic abilities to give us depth. We are still on a 5-year plan and are only 2/5ths into it. I see no glaring holes on either side of the ball and our special teams should be better this year due to having deeper benches.

I think both units will hold their own. We should be middle of the pack on both sides of the ball.

El Tejano
05-11-2004, 10:12 AM
One thing you have to realize is how many games we could've won this past year. We held our own defensively with a broken down Dline full of journeymen. I think even though both sides differ as far as experience goes, you should see both sides gel more this year due to depth and overall talent.

I really hope to see us becoming a sack happy team on defense.

TheOgre
05-11-2004, 10:13 AM
The defense was solid and at times impressive (Pittsburgh) in 2002. The injuries decimated our defense in 2003. We have all of the stars from the 2002 defense plus a few upgrades. I think we could finish in the top half of the league on defense this year.

On offense has upgraded RT (Wade) and TE (Joppru and Bruener) from last year. The big question is maturation. The skill positions players and the left side of the line are young. I think a reasonable goal is for them to finish around 21-25 in the league in offense.

The defense gets my nod.

edo783
05-11-2004, 10:56 AM
If we are not clobbered by injuries, I think the defense will wind up ranked around 12-15 and the offense MIGHT be able to squeeze under 20. That should wind up getting an 8-8 season or possibly slieghtly better.

777texans
05-11-2004, 11:06 AM
I think our defence will be totally good !

SBTexans08
05-11-2004, 11:22 AM
I think our defense is ace! Our D vs. our offense, I'd say that DD would be the only hope.....but.......since Gary and Seth aren't sure money, it's pretty much par on both sides. I'm basing myself on our passing last year...you can't blame me. We have veterans on the defensive side of the ball, that's why I go with them....when healthy!

We've seen what a threat our D can be when healthy.

V Man
05-11-2004, 12:25 PM
I give the D the most consistent play, but the O has that X-Factor

Agreed, At the start of the season, our defense is going to be very solid and will remain that way barring injuries. The offense will be streaky, but if the players develop like many of us believe they can, the offense could be very explosive by the end of the season.

keyfro
05-11-2004, 01:00 PM
i'm looking on paper what should be around a 17th overall ranked defense...if healthy throughout the season that is...given the health factor i'll say more realistically we'll end up 19th or 20th in the nfl...not bad seeing how we'll be starting two rookies...offensively this is their year to really shine...we do have a number 2 reciever no one knows it yet though...if we give thomas and sterling time to mature i think we'll all be pleasantly surprised as to what those guys can do...but this is carr's third year as a starter...time for him to rock n' fire the ball and show to everyone why we drafted him ahead of harrington...andre i think will come in and look like a veteran reciever instead of a second year pro...my only ? mark goes to davis...man prove everyone wrong that your and be the everydown back we know you are...so to answer the question which is our strongest side...it's offense...the way they should be clicking by mid-season should be pretty good

Porky
05-11-2004, 02:12 PM
Good stuff in this thread, especially Vinny and Ogre. I will go on record as saying the defense will finsh between 15th and 20th, and the offense between 20th and 25th. I think the offense will struggle early, and will be struggling with consistency thtroughout, but I expect them to become more explosive, and consistent as the year progresses. By the end of the year, they will really be starting to hit a rythm, which will carry into their first playoff season in 2005. As for the defense, the new cogs will take some time to work their way in, so that may impact us, but I do see more big plays and sacks this year, pending the heath of the d of course.

BTW - Vinny was right on in everything he said, but nobody will mistake him for a mathmetician. We have 22 starters, 6 will likely be new, meaning that 27.2724% of our starters will be new :crazy: :slap:

Dilbert R.
05-11-2004, 03:07 PM
:popcorn: I agree this is good stuff. It is a good question and I believe it goes to show just how balanced most of us believe the team is. I expect we will all see better and more consistent play from David Carr, and Davis being the featured back for the season (barring injuries), our offense should be more productive and exciting (given we open the play book up a bit). Yet still the decision has to go with the defense.
IF Payne can return to form, he is the most impressive NT I've seen. Titans coach, Fisher said before the beginning of last season he was the most underrated player in the NFL. Now with Payne, Walker, and Smith - the LBs will look like All pros, especially with depth and exciting changes going on in the secondary, that should improve our play there. It seems to me, even with the offensive improvements we have made, that our offense will be able to stay on the field more, with less "3 & outs" - and that too will keep the defensive play fresh. So even with offensive improvements, I see the defense being the KEY to our success, and am persuaded they are up to the task.

281
05-11-2004, 07:06 PM
My projected depth chart:

----------------------------------------RB: Davis

----------------------------------------FB: Norris

----------------------------------------QB: Carr

------TE: Joppru RT: Wade RG: Wiegert C:McKinney LG: Brown LT: Pitts

WR: Johnson------------------------------------------WR: Bradford/Gaffney
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
CB: Glenn-----------------------------------------------------CB: Robinson

-------------------------LE: Walker NT: Payne RE: Smith

----------------LOLB: Babin BLB: Foreman MLB: Sharper ROLB: Wong

-------------------------------SS: Brown FS: Coleman

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edge goes to the Defense.

Ibar_Harry
05-11-2004, 10:36 PM
SteelBlue I will stick by my guns and say we do not have the coaching dynamics on offense that we do on defense. I would put us in the lack luster camp offensively. Our emphasis is defense and our total focus. That's what Capers is confortible with. We have a lot of potential offensively, but I believe the coaching in this area is our achellies heel. An improved offensive coaching staff would do wonders for this ball club. I know they have made some changes this year and I will wait to see what happens, but I'm not that optomistic. We will score points simply because of pure ability, but we should be doing a lot better than that. I'm actually excited about some of the late round offensive picks, but I fear they will not develop in our system. DD can not do it all by himself and that became apparent at the end of the year. He did very well, but was held at crunch time. We need for the other team to have to worry about more than AJ and DD. A two dimensional offense does not cut it in the NFL. A lot of the posts favor the defense and understandibly so. Capers was a kid in the Cookie Jar last weekend, because of defense. Again, I don't believe the offense is getting its just dues. I will say in fairness that defense is very important in the NFL, but you have to be able to put points on the board. When you do that you make a good defense even better. It may sound strange, but we lost a lot of close games last year because the offense could not give the defense a rest and because they could not put points on the board in critical situations. There were still far to many 3 and out situations with our defense hanging on to a narrow lead while being exhausted. In most cases the outcome was inevitable.

Vinny
05-11-2004, 10:39 PM
We drafted for OFFENSE our first two years. We only NOW drafted for defense Ibar. Also, we just changed our offensive line coach and have an entirely new blocking scheme. I don't grasp much of what you seem to have issues with since much of what you are posting runs contrary to what is really going on.

Ibar_Harry
05-11-2004, 10:46 PM
As you said in another post, this is my gut feel. I may be wrong, but I don't think I'm that far off base. I know we have made some changes offensively, but they are small in comparison to the defensive side of the ball. Even though we drafted offensively the first two years the empahsis was defense and so was the coaching. I think we have under developed our offensive capabilities. This year is a new one and I hope we see some improvement. We are very close to having a very good team.

Vinny
05-11-2004, 10:47 PM
As you said in another post, this is my gut feel. I may be wrong, but I don't think I'm that far off base. I know we have made some changes offensively, but they are small in comparison to the defensive side of the ball. Even though we drafted offensively the first two years the empahsis was defense and so was the coaching. I think we have under developed our offensive capabilities. This year is a new one and I hope we see some improvement. We are very close to having a very good team.
An entirely new blocking scheme is not a "small change". The empahsis was on "winning", not offense. When you have a young offense you tend to get blown out when you run a wide open set (mistakes lead to blowouts). We rarely got blown out our first two years as a NFL team starting from scratch. There is something to be said for that.

Ibar_Harry
05-11-2004, 10:55 PM
I won't disagree with that statement, but perhaps that should have happened long ago which is what I'm saying. In any event we are both wanting the same thing and that's a winning year. Again at this point in time, I believe offense is going to be our weakness this year. I hope I'm proven wrong. As I have stated I see some real interesting young players offensively and I think they will push some of the veterns real hard. Don't be surprised to see a Bradford or Gaffny in trouble with respect to making the team. Again the line, if Wand has developed, could also be an interesting problem for Capers at cut time. I think its going to be a very interesting year for the veterns.

Vinny
05-11-2004, 10:59 PM
Gaffney needs the ball thrown to him. That's all he needs. No way in heck he is in danger of not making the team. How many games have you actually seen Ibar? I know you don't get the games on TV out there. Tell me please because I'd like to know what you have actually eyeballed since I can't seem to grasp MUCH of what you post about our team, month in, month out. You seem so sure about what you post about, but I find most of your takes a bit far out there.

wags
05-11-2004, 11:19 PM
Don't be surprised to see a Bradford or Gaffny in trouble with respect to making the team. .
HUH? :crazy: There is no way Gaff or Bradford are in trouble of making the team.

Erratic Assassin
05-12-2004, 01:27 AM
I thought about it and was wondering, what is the Texans biggest strength? :um: When you think of our D you think of solid experienced veterans, but when you think of the offense your first impulse is young, explosive play-making talent.

Year 1 and Year 2:
We drafted offense

Year 3 and Year 4:
Defense

We probably have more young talent on offense right now, but things will even out next year.

rittenhouserobz
05-12-2004, 02:36 AM
Naturally, I am excited about our defensive aquisitions. I also like that we got Wade, Bruener, and Joppru on offense now.

People have said that having Bruener is like having an extra tackle on the line. I think our singleback-2TE sets are going to give defenses more fits than people think. DD has that natural ability to slash and dart to the open spot with great force. With a solid TE blocking on the end for Hollings we might see more success edge-rushing from him. I see Carr expanding his knowledge of game management this year (less mistakes). AJ and Gaffney just need to catch the ball when it gets to them. I hope we don't see another 40-yard pass dropped by AJ this year.

The defense has improved and built depth, which I feel the offense still lacks. It has become apparent to me that this is going to be a defensive team with a solid running attack and occasional passing like Baltimore. The DL is better with Smith, and we have a depth there with Deloach and Ioane (wish we could have signed Martin). LB position is filled up now and some depth from the draft. S position is solid and has depth. The addition of Earl and Brown should be good at SS. Mcree and Coleman make us set at FS. CB is good, but we have a rookie at RCB. Our Nickel, Dime, and Quarter package is as good as any in the league though with Glenn, Robinson, and Coleman.

I would say its a tie.

beerlover
05-12-2004, 03:28 AM
At different points during the season each will take the lead & in the end the group with the fewer injurys will come out on top :fight:

On a positive note I think our special teams play will be outstanding, one of the best balanced most proficient in the league. I think Hollings will be solid on kick-offs & one of the rookies or free agents will emerge big time over last year. Add to that our kicking game is solid, plus Earl Glenn, Charlie Anderson, & Raheem Orr all trying to impress for playing time makes the Texans special teams look higher ranked by the end of the season than both the offense or defense :soapbox:

Mistril48
05-12-2004, 04:55 PM
People have said that having Bruener is like having an extra tackle on the line. I think our singleback-2TE sets are going to give defenses more fits than people think. DD has that natural ability to slash and dart to the open spot with great force. With a solid TE blocking on the end for Hollings we might see more success edge-rushing from him.

I would add that we can have SPEED at WR (Johnson and Bradford) that will cause match-up problems. When we are in our 'jumbo' two TE package (good blockers, like Bruener and hopefully Joppru), the outside speed should keep the safties from walking up iinto the box. I like DD running behind 7 OL (including the two tight ends), against 7 in the box.

Mistril48
05-12-2004, 05:05 PM
It has become apparent to me that this is going to be a defensive team with a solid running attack and occasional passing like Baltimore.

Capers would love to have a defensive team, with a solid running game and good special teams.

I can't accept the comparison to Baltimore, however. They have CONSISTENTLY messed up at QB, with a long line of saviors who are hand picked by Billick, only to be busts. The latest fiasco was passing on Leftwich and then trying to fill with Boller. Boller has to improve A LOT to compare with what Carr has done with an expansion team.

Also, Baltimore messed up their WR situation. I think our WR are substantially better than Baltimores.