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Goldeagle
08-19-2006, 09:26 PM
Mario Williams was the wrong pick. Of course I speak for the 10% who wanted D Brick.

F-minus67
08-19-2006, 09:29 PM
Well then, might as well cut him now and not let him play the season when it actually matters.:rolleyes:

Goldeagle
08-19-2006, 09:30 PM
Heh, so we should pull an Astros trick like we did with Wilson

LOL

AMartin56
08-19-2006, 09:34 PM
Give it a rest. He batted that one ball down and got into the back field with a nice play almost immediately afterwards. Looks like he drew quite a bit of attention on a few other plays as well.

Give me an address and I'll have a Saints jersey sent over to you...

LBC_Justin
08-19-2006, 09:35 PM
Mario Williams was the wrong pick. Of course I speak for the 10% who wanted D Brick.
wow, you learned all that from less than one game of play. DE is not a position that rookies usually come in and dominate. Ahhh actually I am going to stop right there. I was going to explain further, but you aren't worth the key strokes. I hear the Saints need some fans. Jump on board their forums.

Peldon
08-19-2006, 09:38 PM
Mario Williams was the wrong pick. Of course I speak for the 10% who wanted D Brick.

Funny, I also wanted D Brick but you sure don't speak for me.

texan279
08-19-2006, 09:45 PM
the sky is falling the sky is falling! :francis: chill, second game of the preseason, bruce smith and reggie white started out slow too

BradK10
08-19-2006, 09:46 PM
I dont think he's starting out slow. They are lining him up next to Peek and Peek's already had two sacks. Coincidence? I think not. Mario makes the players around him better, knowledgeable football fans understand this.

texan279
08-19-2006, 09:47 PM
I dont think he's starting out slow. They are lining him up next to Peek and Peek's already had two sacks. Coincidence? I think not. Mario makes the players around him better, knowledgeable football fans understand this.

ok maybe not starting out slow, but it seems some were expecting him to come out and get 10 sacks a game or something

BradK10
08-19-2006, 09:51 PM
ok maybe not starting out slow, but it seems some were expecting him to come out and get 10 sacks a game or something

i knew what you meant

texan279
08-19-2006, 10:05 PM
i knew what you meant

;) i know

BigDTexansFan
08-19-2006, 10:13 PM
Unfortunately am in the land of Blue Star LOSERS, so am not watching game but am listening online and following on NFL.com. I hardly think that fact our D has registered 7 sacks in 7 quarters and our offensive line in 7 quarters has allowed ONLY 1 is a tremendous situation.

Onto this young man's Regie Reggie Rant, Mario Williams is reason we have those 7 sacks. Did he make them...NO, but like has been so ably explained he makes the defense better. When offensive coordinators and O-Line coaches focus on him it frees rest of defense


Q Which would you rather have 10 sacks by Mario to shut up talking heads at sports media and other various and sundry idiots OR would you rather have a defense that has forced several fumbles sacked QB 7 times and held opponents through 7 quarters to 17 points. DOH:fireball:

TexanSam
08-19-2006, 10:28 PM
Onto this young man's Regie Reggie Rant, Mario Williams is reason we have those 7 sacks. Did he make them...NO, but like has been so ably explained he makes the defense better. When offensive coordinators and O-Line coaches focus on him it frees rest of defense


I hope you meant to say Mario Williams is a reason instead of the reason for those sacks. He's a reason for them, but he's not soley responsible for the good D-line play.

BigDTexansFan
08-19-2006, 10:31 PM
I hope you meant to say Mario Williams is a reason instead of the reason for those sacks. He's a reason for them, but he's not soley responsible for the good D-line play.

OUCH next thing Miss Manners will critique way I am sitting

TexanSam
08-19-2006, 10:33 PM
OUCH next thing Miss Manners will critique way I am sitting

Well in your original post you put "Williams is reason" so I don't know if you meant that he's the reason or a reason. Sorry, I didn't mean for it come out so harsh.

LBC_Justin
08-19-2006, 10:34 PM
most NFL experts say you need 3-4 years to truely evaluate how good a teams draft was.

but hey...for some people 2-3 quarters of preseason football is enough.

yeehaw!!!

Smokedawg
08-19-2006, 11:12 PM
Does it reall matter what he did? We won both of our games and to me that is ALL that matters.

TexanSam
08-19-2006, 11:15 PM
Does it reall matter what he did? We won both of our games and to me that is ALL that matters.

I think it does. Winning is nice, but the preseason isn't just about winning like the regular season. In the preseason, you like to see players improve. So yes I believe it does matter.

GuerillaBlack
08-19-2006, 11:16 PM
Williams did good this game. We helped our line, batted down a pass, and tackled a running back for a loss.

BattleRedRaider
08-19-2006, 11:23 PM
Mario Williams was the wrong pick. Of course I speak for the 10% who wanted D Brick.

"Marty!"

"Doc! What's wrong!"

"We have to go back to April 29th, 2006!"

"But why, Doc?"

"The Texans are about to pick Mario Williams! We must change that!"

"Doc, they're doing just fine........wait.........so you're telling me you made a time machine......out of a DeLorean?"

veazeyt
08-19-2006, 11:23 PM
As compared to last game, #90 got a lot more action, pressure and disruptive play. I did notice he was doubled also.

DefLord
08-19-2006, 11:25 PM
But as Weaver said in the interview with Bob that Williams is and was trying too hard to make plays... So it is going to take time, I thought he did better this game than he did the last game.. He made a great stop in the backfield. Honestly it is a learning step week in and week out. He will be fine! I still think we made the right choice.

cbnjwill
08-19-2006, 11:26 PM
come on guys give peek the credit for making plays that guys flying all over the field showing great speed and athleticism and you guys are searching for a way to give credit to williams come on.....

TexanSam
08-19-2006, 11:26 PM
As compared to last game, #90 got a lot more action, pressure and disruptive play. I did notice he was doubled also.

Really? I didn't seem much double teaming, but then again I couldn't really tell where he was lined up most of the time. I do think I saw him double teamed on occasion, but I saw more one on one. I think he got the better of the offensive lineman he was lined up against more often than not. While that doesn't mean he's necessarily going to get to the QB depending on the play, but I think he'll be putting on more pass rush as the games go by.

come on guys give peek the credit for making plays that guys flying all over the field showing great speed and athleticism and you guys are searching for a way to give credit to williams come on.....

This is a thread about Mario Williams...

veazeyt
08-19-2006, 11:28 PM
Yeah, he would get doubled and has time progressed in a play they would peal off, I only was able to notice in the replays. But I am rewatching the first half right now. To see if there is more.

Grid
08-19-2006, 11:33 PM
Mario Williams was the wrong pick. Of course I speak for the 10% who wanted D Brick.

We dont have a smiley face that adequately displays the amount of pointing and laughing, and ridicule, that i want to bestow upon you.

So instead, here is a dancing chicken.

:chicken:

Goldeagle
08-19-2006, 11:36 PM
And I see D brick SLAM 2 guys on a block. Heh, Mario gets double teamed, D birck levels 2 guys.

I hope you guys are right about him.

veazeyt
08-19-2006, 11:37 PM
Watching the game over, Mario was in several stunts and I even saw him drop back in back field on a blitz package.

texflex513
08-19-2006, 11:37 PM
come on guys give peek the credit for making plays that guys flying all over the field showing great speed and athleticism and you guys are searching for a way to give credit to williams come on.....

Peek gets his props dont worry about that. Its just nice to see mario progress its our common goal as texans fans.

disaacks3
08-19-2006, 11:38 PM
come on guys give peek the credit for making plays that guys flying all over the field showing great speed and athleticism and you guys are searching for a way to give credit to williams come on..... You need to go back and watch tape of Mario getting double-teamed out in space while Peek went inside and got the sack on at least one occassion.

Grid
08-19-2006, 11:52 PM
ahhh..that second one almost captures the feeling i had when I read this post :D

veazeyt
08-19-2006, 11:56 PM
Mario was pulled during a series where Bulger, Bulger was sacked at the end of that series when the Texans sent all three LBs on a blitz.

veazeyt
08-20-2006, 12:03 AM
There was a play were Mario got doubled and he ended up battin the ball down on that one.

Sorry, I am just rewatching the defensive plays that involved Mario!


The next play, Mario penetrated on a run play and tackled for a loss.

rittenhouserobz
08-20-2006, 12:17 AM
I will not try to give credibility to the topic by sayin mario was double-teamed. I will state this he has played in two games and has progressed. What exactly does Mario have to do to be worth the same or more than DBrick, VY, or Reggie?

They are all rookies and will have rookie moments. Please, at least wait until after the first regular season game to judge an NFL rookies entire career. :sarcasm: That being said I thought Mario did a wonderful job.

Smash_Mouth_Mario
08-20-2006, 12:24 AM
You need to go back and watch tape of Mario getting double-teamed out in space while Peek went inside and got the sack on at least one occassion.This is something that I want to keep an eye on real close. As should everyone else. And that the ability of Mario to make other DE/LBs jobs easier while Mario is learning the ropes.

And gradually, as Mario gets better. He'll be able to get more tackles or disrupt the QB even when he IS doubled.

I mean, even Pro-bowl DEs sometimes only get 1 sack the whole game. But if you break down the game tape... you'll notice that some defensive players are soooo disruptive that it makes the opponents offensive struggle; which doesn't always show up in the stats; and all this from ONE GUY!

I keep wondering how much we'll need Mario and Peak when we have the lead against the Peyton Manning and we have to STOP THEM just ONE LAST POSSESSSION. Talk about hard! Leads aren't worth crap if you can stop the opposing team in the last 2 minutes.

Can you imagine how much Peak will love his job this year?

TheRealJoker
08-20-2006, 12:30 AM
Reggie Bush was the wrong pick for our football team. We've got 2 backs that are more than capable in Morency and Lundy, not to mention DD when he gets healthy.

Vince Young was the wrong pick for our football team. Carr and Sage are gonna do more to help this team win in the here and now than Vince Young can. Also, Vince's "potential" is large, but how often does a running QB meet or exceed his "potential"?

GO MARIO!!!:fireball:

TheRealJoker
08-20-2006, 12:32 AM
Check out my spinoff thread!!!

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=26689

Hookem Horns
08-20-2006, 12:44 AM
Mario looked good tonight. That play where he threw off TWO guys double teaming him and still managed to bat down that pass was awesome. I have the game on DVR and watched that play a few times. The bottom line is the defense is looking MUCH better.

BTW, when I saw the title of this thread I thought it would be about David Carr.

Smash_Mouth_Mario
08-20-2006, 12:45 AM
Imagine playing the Indianapolis Colts, up by 14 points...start of the 4th.

4th Quarter, 15:00 to go (a lifetime)

Texans: 28
Colts: 14

How did we get the lead? Giving the ball to Bush and have him improvise and create on his own. Hey, might as well count on him since he's such a "star" right? Reminds me of the Campbell days (one star to lead them; NOT!).

No Mario. So, now our DE/DTs jobs are harder. As are the LB/safety's jobs. And CBs. The D-line struggles to put pressure on the QB. And Peyton Manning picks us apart and drives his team 80 yards for FG. Oh, and because or D is so average. We'll need to just give the ball to Bush amost every play, right? He's Jesus, remember? Makes you wonder how we'd expect to put our "star" offensive player against the Colts WR, WR, RB, FB, TE, all picking us apart like a well oiled machine.

Wash, rinse, repeat...

Texans: 28
colts: 17 (FG)

Texans: 28
Colts: 24 (TD/EP)

Texans: 28
Colts: 31 (TD/EP)

End of Game

Chrispy
08-20-2006, 02:16 AM
It hasn't been mentioned yet that the 1st string D allowed only about 30 rushing yards in the first half. I'm quite sure that he was part of the line that accomplished this.:mario:

cbnjwill
08-20-2006, 02:55 AM
must say that was pretty funny senario you created. keep trying to convince yourself they made the right move. you really think that colts game would definately go that way dont you... i know defense wins championships and mario is making the other defensive players better. we dont need a high priced runningback in this system.by the way since your predicting the colts game this yr. who wins the superbowl and how many wins will the texans have?

Smash_Mouth_Mario
08-20-2006, 03:09 AM
must say that was pretty funny senario you created. keep trying to convince yourself they made the right move. you really think that colts game would definately go that way dont you... i know defense wins championships and mario is making the other defensive players better. we dont need a high priced runningback in this system.by the way since your predicting the colts game this yr. who wins the superbowl and how many wins will the texans have?

Did you read my post?

You say, "we don't need a high priced runningback" yet in the same sentence you accuse me of trying to convince myself that "we" made the right move?

Uh, ok...

And yes, I do think that "that colts game would definately go that way," considering they have done it before. And not just against the Texans. And not having Mario would make the possibility of that loss even more probable. And that's what I was trying to say. It's not a mystical prediction.

Now, considering that I was talking about the Colts offense vs our defense (if we didn't have Mario). I'd suggest that you don't inflate what I was trying to say. Lets stay on topic here.

cbnjwill
08-20-2006, 03:35 AM
seriously i think your giving williams too much credit. this defens was going to be better this yr with or without mario. granted i think our defense will be better with mario than without saying that a colt game would be so much different beause we now have mario is a big reach. theres alot of new players on the defense this yr and more importantly theres a new coaching staff and a new attitude.mario should and has to make an impact on this team this yr. but lets not make him out to be the next lawerence taylor, a hall of famer who has completly changed this defense in two preseason games

Smash_Mouth_Mario
08-20-2006, 03:42 AM
seriously i think your giving williams too much credit. this defens was going to be better this yr with or without mario. granted i think our defense will be better with mario than without saying that a colt game would be so much different beause we now have mario is a big reach. theres alot of new players on the defense this yr and more importantly theres a new coaching staff and a new attitude.mario should and has to make an impact on this team this yr. but lets not make him out to be the next lawerence taylor, a hall of famer who has completly changed this defense in two preseason games

Well, put it this way. Reggie White or not. Not having him we'd be worse off.

But I can't believe you can't see his talent. I mean, it's raw power and speed right now. He lacks the technique..that's all. Listen, come back at the end of the season and you'll view what I've said to be more accurate than you believe it to be now.

From what I've seen in the last 10 years regarding Super Bowl teams. We're on the right track. I don't want to be the Detroit Lions part 2. I'd rather be the NE Patriots.

Oh, and the real test will be this year when we play the Colts. Right? Sunday, Sep 17 2006, Texans @ Colts, and Sunday, Dec 24 2006, Colts @ Texans

Low Life
08-20-2006, 10:42 AM
Funny, I also wanted D Brick but you sure don't speak for me.
same.

BigTimeTexanFan
08-20-2006, 10:46 AM
Is everyone getting as tired of reading the same thing over and over again. This is going to continue after every game too! All I have to say is that our star cornerback struggled in the preseason and throughout his firts year. He was even benched, yet he seems to have eveloved into a pretty solid player. Guess what, it doesn't happen over night

veazeyt
08-20-2006, 10:54 AM
With all of the tinkering and rotations that have been going on already on the D-line, I can't imagine not having a guy like Mario Williams on our team at this point.

Someone made a point about how good our run defense was earliar, kudos!
We stuffed Stephen Jackson big time, and Mario is in or near a couple of those plays. Stephen Jackson is supposed to be a groomed RB to breakout this year, but yesterday he just broke down.

Texian
08-20-2006, 11:20 AM
How many tackles and sacks does an above average DE make in a regular season game?

Come on you brilliant prognosticators who know all after 3 quarters of a pre season football. I'm waiting. I'll give you a few hours to figure it out and time to eat crow before I am back with the answer.

powerfuldragon
08-20-2006, 12:15 PM
Mario Williams was the wrong pick. Of course I speak for the 10% who wanted D Brick.
you're wrong.

AFD1717
08-20-2006, 12:16 PM
I think it is time to admit that Mario Williams is a mistake. I realize that we have only seen him play for less than one game, but I really feel that if we had drafted Ferguson or Bush that we would be able to run the ball at will and we'd probably be undefeated.

The Pencil Neck
08-20-2006, 12:20 PM
How many tackles and sacks does an above average DE make in a regular season game?

Come on you brilliant prognosticators who know all after 3 quarters of a pre season football. I'm waiting. I'll give you a few hours to figure it out and time to eat crow before I am back with the answer.

Well, not that you were talking to me BUT... to get double digit sacks, you need to get slightly more than 1 sack every other game. But as some other people have posted, judging a DE just on sacks ignores a lot of things they do. Other guys on the DL are benefitting just from having him on the field and that's not something that's really measurable.

And the guy hasn't even played a full games worth of plays, yet, has he?

I can't wait for this season to start. I really can't.

Wolf
08-20-2006, 12:31 PM
well I haven't seen enough, I think ,for the Texans, this was a must -have type of game. A game where we saw the blitzes, we saw the mistakes on offense and defense. I realize some posters on here would have loved to rolled the rams for 35 points and only give up 7. Heck I would have loved to see that,but what would it have accomplished? We still wouldn't have seen our weaknesses. If I recall Spencer struggled on the first series and Carr the 1st half. As far as Blitzing and from reading the game thread, I was suprised that THAT much blitzing was coming in a 2nd preseason game, yet Kubiak did say that this game was going to be the game where most of the starters would play, and the next few will be evaluation purposes.

All in all we needed to see this kinda of game. IMO

OzzO
08-20-2006, 12:35 PM
I think it is time to admit that Mario Williams is a mistake. I realize that we have only seen him play for less than one game, but I really feel that if we had drafted Ferguson or Bush that we would be able to run the ball at will and we'd probably be undefeated.

Not sure if that was sarcastic or not, if so - nice undertone zinger.

AFD1717
08-20-2006, 12:37 PM
A4toZ, I wondered if I should use the little smiley or not.

football freak
08-20-2006, 12:39 PM
the Texans did the right thing drafting Williams. We filled a need and Kubiak will produce the next superstar runnung back out of Morency.

South Texan
08-20-2006, 12:41 PM
Seems to me like you fix the WEAKEST link in the chain. Last year that was the D-Line and O-Line.

Mario may not become the best ever, but he should be a force for years to come.
Weaver was a great pickup to play oppisite Mario.
Peek-A-Boom and Battling Babin are back to playing where they belong.
DeMeco looks like he is going to make some noise in the League

The offensive side of the line is for another thread, but only 1 sack in 2 games looks like we helped ourselves there too.

Even if Carr can't get it done, Sage looks like he can. We didn't need a QB.
The running game is averaging 5 to 6 yards per carry with our 2nd and 3rd string RBs. Our system makes running backs great, we didn't need to go 1'st round for a great running back.

It's a TEAM sport. IMO, the guys we picked up are what the team needed most.:twocents:

Goldeagle
08-20-2006, 03:10 PM
Peek gets his props dont worry about that. Its just nice to see mario progress its our common goal as texans fans.

True, his one sack Mario Was not double teamed. It was all Peak.

Nice to see Mario dominate the 2nd stringers

mancunian
08-20-2006, 03:18 PM
It hasn't been mentioned yet that the 1st string D allowed only about 30 rushing yards in the first half. I'm quite sure that he was part of the line that accomplished this.:mario:

Rams had 61 rushing yards on 27 attempts all night. And we put up 143 yards on the ground. The week before the Colts had 38 on 16 attempts.

Johnny Utah
08-20-2006, 03:26 PM
True, his one sack Mario Was not double teamed. It was all Peak.

Nice to see Mario dominate the 2nd stringers

Did you see what Mario was doing to the Guard on Peek's sack? It was a bullrush where the Guard was getting pushed back easily and Mario was collapsing the pocket.

Goldeagle
08-20-2006, 03:29 PM
hard to say sinc ehe got 2, but the one I saw (AGAIN, against 2nd stringers) he made a swim move and Peak was one on one. Dont get me wrong MW looked great against the 2nd string guys, and that is something.

Meanwhile D birck has kicked butt in NY, and decimated not one but TWO guys on one block down the field the other day.

MrMeToo
08-20-2006, 03:33 PM
Mario is a average player. Definitely not worth the number 1 pick, but we can't do nothing about it now so it doesn't bohter me.

thunderkyss
08-20-2006, 03:35 PM
You need to go back and watch tape of Mario getting double-teamed out in space while Peek went inside and got the sack on at least one occassion.

did you see the one where Peek crashed inside, taking out the LT, and the LG ,to allow Weaver around the edge to nail Bulger as he threw the ball??


Beautiful.

Wolf
08-20-2006, 03:38 PM
Mario is a average player. Definitely not worth the number 1 pick, but we can't do nothing about it now so it doesn't bohter me.

aren't we a :stirpot: ..you know this how? after about 2 1/2 quarters in preseason.

either way if Mario didn't go number 1 overall, he would have been top 4..

Wolf
08-20-2006, 03:40 PM
I am glad it was Ryan that was out last game and not mario, some would conclude the word "injury prone" :sarcasm:

Jwwillis
08-20-2006, 03:43 PM
the sky is falling the sky is falling! :francis: chill, second game of the preseason, bruce smith and reggie white started out slow too


lol I agree MW is goin to be fine. But I have to say all these "The sky is falling" comments remind me of last years pre-season....and the sky fell.

Grid
08-20-2006, 03:55 PM
When you prophesize doom and gloom every year.. that doesnt make you a prophet when it actually happens :D.

Mario has played 3 quarters now... notice that when he actuall got to play back to back quarters, he did much better in the second quarter.

Could it be that Mario may need to play a whole game to completely show where he is at? gasp!... but a WHOLE GAME??? What kind of fans give thier first round draft pick an ENTIRE game before they decide if they suck? Do they think we are MADE of free time?

Next they will be telling us that the coaches know more about football than we do.. HAH! that will be the day. Everyone knows that coaches know the LEAST about football.. thats why they are coaches.

rittenhouserobz
08-20-2006, 04:23 PM
How is the sky falling when we did win two games? We are on top of the division. Even if they are pseudo-wins.

AFD1717
08-20-2006, 07:02 PM
[QUOTE=MrMeToo]Mario is a average player. [QUOTE]

I agree. He hasn't had a sack in his entire professional career. We have invested far too much time in this guy already. He hasn't responded to coaching and has gone as far as admiting that he was too excited in half of the games he has played. Its time to stop expecting this guy to develop. If he hasn't become a dominant force yet, it is time to cut bait.

(Sarcasm hat off)

Question: Who will be a better pro - Mario, D'Brick, VY, or El Presidente?

Answer: I don't know and neither do any of you. We won't know for years. Stop pretending to draw accurate conclusions based on 3 quarters of preseason football.

Honoring Earl 34
08-20-2006, 07:24 PM
How do we know Dbrick is kicking butt ? I wonder how much better Dbrick is than Spencer . I know he's not stronger or bigger or comes with a DL attitude .

I think David Anderson is going to be a bust .

rmartin65
08-20-2006, 07:26 PM
I think David Anderson is going to be a bust .
I stayed up late last night so sorry if that was meant to be sarcasm. I think its kinda hard to be a bust from the 7th round.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
08-20-2006, 07:42 PM
The Texans have held two good offensive teams to two touchdowns each. I know it is just preseason, but that is pretty darn good. Remember, it is just preseason. Don't try to evaluate anyone's entire career on two preseason games. However, if you have focused on him these last two games and haven't noticed his raw speed and power, you are blind, blind, blind.

Smash_Mouth_Mario
08-20-2006, 10:33 PM
Mario has played 3 quarters now... notice that when he actuall got to play back to back quarters, he did much better in the second quarter.



What I'll be very interested in is how well Mario does in the 4th quarter as time goes on. Will he tire out or will tire out the opposing OTs?

:)

GoTexans
08-20-2006, 11:15 PM
Mario Williams was the wrong pick. Of course I speak for the 10% who wanted D Brick.

yeah all the double teams he has been drawing that helped create five sacks against the Chiefs and three against the Rams.

his presence on the field alone makes everyone on the D much better.

and busting that double team to make that tackle for a loss on saturday is what you can expect from super mario as he continues to develop.

DocBar
08-20-2006, 11:30 PM
Mario Williams was the wrong pick. Of course I speak for the 10% who wanted D Brick.
I hope you aren't anyones boss. You have some tough standards. If you're this disappointed at this stage by Mario, you'd be suicidal if we had D'Brick. OT is at LEAST as difficult to learn as DE.

clandestin
08-21-2006, 12:30 AM
I didn't think the offensive line played well. They couldn't run block and Brick seemed akward trying to block nfl defensive ends. Obviously it was his first game but his overall blocking was nothing special.

I don't know what game you guys were watching but Ferguson was getting man handled by Rice. His lucky they gave him help and made quick 3 step drop throws.

http://forums.theganggreen.com/showthread.php?t=9780

This is a response to the thread starter... It turns out the best tackle to enter the draft in years is a rookie too. No matter who we passed on, Mario is still a rookie. The fact that he made serious improvement in his second and third quarters of playing is nothing but positive.

A batted down pass, a tackle for a loss, and drawing holds against the first team are good things. Lawrence Taylor who was the most dominant pass rusher in league history didn't hit double digit sacks until his fourth year in the league...he was a rooke at some point too.

The Pencil Neck
08-21-2006, 12:49 AM
Lawrence Taylor who was the most dominant pass rusher in league history didn't hit double digit sacks until his fourth year in the league...he was a rooke at some point too.

How many sacks did LT have his first year? I can't find the number for that. Did they start keeping the sack stat in 1982?

Anyway, LT still made the Pro Bowl his first year and for the first 10 years of his career. I'd like to see that kind of production from Mario. :)

Smash_Mouth_Mario
08-21-2006, 12:56 AM
How many sacks did LT have his first year? I can't find the number for that. Did they start keeping the sack stat in 1982?

Anyway, LT still made the Pro Bowl his first year and for the first 10 years of his career. I'd like to see that kind of production from Mario. :)



http://mywebpages.comcast.net/astros/stuff/lt.jpg

The Pencil Neck
08-21-2006, 01:05 AM
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/astros/stuff/lt.jpg

Yeah, I already looked there but I don't think that's accurate. I don't think he got 0 sacks his first year and got to the pro-bowl. That's why I was wondering if they didn't start keeping the stat until his second year.

thunderkyss
08-21-2006, 08:39 AM
Yeah, I already looked there but I don't think that's accurate. I don't think he got 0 sacks his first year and got to the pro-bowl. That's why I was wondering if they didn't start keeping the stat until his second year.

the primary goal of the LB is not getting sacks.... it's stopping the run. Like a SS, he may very well be the best to play that position, and never get a sack. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, where like a Troy Polomau(sp) or Ronnie Lott are exceptional pass rushers from their position........ people say they changed the game............... or people start to expect their LBs & Safeties to produce sacks like them.

Basically, it is very possible that LT was playing at a level higher than anyone expected to see a rookie LB play(AP defensive player of the year, AP Rookie of the Year) and not get a sack......

The Pencil Neck
08-21-2006, 09:55 AM
the primary goal of the LB is not getting sacks.... it's stopping the run. Like a SS, he may very well be the best to play that position, and never get a sack. Of course, there are exceptions to the rule, where like a Troy Polomau(sp) or Ronnie Lott are exceptional pass rushers from their position........ people say they changed the game............... or people start to expect their LBs & Safeties to produce sacks like them.

Basically, it is very possible that LT was playing at a level higher than anyone expected to see a rookie LB play(AP defensive player of the year, AP Rookie of the Year) and not get a sack......

Well, I doubt it. AND... I was right. The NFL did not keep sack statistics prior to 1982.

http://goliath.ecnext.com/comsite5/bin/pdinventory.pl?pdlanding=1&referid=2750&item_id=0199-3352061

I knew that the NFL only started keeping the sack statistic recently but I wasn't sure which year it was. It was 1982. So we don't know if LT got double digit sacks his rookie year or not. He probably didn't but we just don't know.

DocBar
08-21-2006, 10:48 AM
Mario is a bust( or will HAVE one)!!! It will be on display in the NFL HOF starting in 2026. It will be recognizable by the plethora of Lombardi trophies next to it!!!
:yahoo: :yahoo: :yahoo:

Battle Red Flash
08-21-2006, 11:07 AM
Hmmm.
WAY too early to tell on this, but I love those tackles behind the line!

Texian
08-21-2006, 01:49 PM
Well I have given you Mario Bashers a whole day to come up with the answers but for some unknown reason none of you can rise to the challenge. Therefore I have to consider all Mario Bashers pre season bust. Here is the question again:

How many tackles and sacks does an above average DE make in a regular season game?

A few of you are making a Taylor comparision, a LB. Let's stay with apples to apples (DEs to DEs) for now.

Dwight Freeney avgs. 2.2 tackles a game and .8 sacks a game.
Michael Strahan avgs. 3.95 tackles a game and .678 sacks a game.
Julius Peppers avgs. 3.21 tackles a game and .675 sacks a game.

There you go, here is your measuring stick, but these numbers are only for real games that count - no preseaon. Of course when you start counting you have to expect Mario as rookie to be some what under these 3 DEs numbers. It will not be until 2007 or 2008 before you can expect 3 tackles and .6 sacks a game.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
08-21-2006, 03:31 PM
Well I have given you Mario Bashers a whole day to come up with the answers but for some unknown reason none of you can rise to the challenge. Therefore I have to consider all Mario Bashers pre season bust. Here is the question again:

How many tackles and sacks does an above average DE make in a regular season game?

A few of you are making a Taylor comparision, a LB. Let's stay with apples to apples (DEs to DEs) for now.

Dwight Freeney avgs. 2.2 tackles a game and .8 sacks a game.
Michael Strahan avgs. 3.95 tackles a game and .678 sacks a game.
Julius Peppers avgs. 3.21 tackles a game and .675 sacks a game.

There you go, here is your measuring stick, but these numbers are only for real games that count - no preseaon. Of course when you start counting you have to expect Mario as rookie to be some what under these 3 DEs numbers. It will not be until 2007 or 2008 before you can expect 3 tackles and .6 sacks a game.

Thanks for putting it into perspective for these people. Playing defense isn't glamorous, and it rarely gets you on the highlight reel. You can make the most splash on defense by being a top notch corner, but even those guys don't make highlight plays every game.

Bamaborn-Texasbred
08-21-2006, 03:58 PM
In the forty drafts that have taken place since the league merger, a running back has been the top overall pick seven times. That is 17.5 % of the 40 number one picks.

Defensive end is right there with running back at 17.5% However, if you add DT you come up with twelve overall number one picks for 30%. That is nearly one out of every three.

rbs-

O.J.
Ricky Bell
Earl Campbell
Billy Sims
George Rogers
Bo Jackson
Ki-Jana Carter

D Line-

Bubba Smith de
John Matuszak de
Ed "Too Tall" Jones de
Lee Roy Selmon de
Bruce Smith de
Courtney Brown de
Mario Williams de

Walt Patulski dt
Kenneth Sims dt
Russell Maryland dt
Steve Emtman dt
Dan Wilkinson dt

I bring this up because the media acts like the Texans have done something shocking by grabbing a defensive end with the first pick. You could say passing up on Reggie Bush is shocking, but look at our rushing numbers so far. Apparently we are fairly deep at running back, and we have pass rush threat to boot. If the Texans never come out of the cellar, and Mario Williams hasn't provided some excitement within a year or two you can cry foul. For now, just enjoy the fact that they look one hell of a lot better than they did last year.

Also, Herschell Walker was the best college back in his draft class. Reggie White was the best DE. They both went to the USFL, but if you had to choose between the two knowing what you know now who would you take?

Bamaborn-Texasbred
08-21-2006, 05:12 PM
Did I nail this one shut? It has been an hour with no response.

chuckm
08-21-2006, 05:13 PM
I'm waiting for you to mention Aundray Bruce ....

Double Barrel
08-21-2006, 05:15 PM
Well I have given you Mario Bashers a whole day to come up with the answers but for some unknown reason none of you can rise to the challenge. Therefore I have to consider all Mario Bashers pre season bust. Here is the question again:

How many tackles and sacks does an above average DE make in a regular season game?

A few of you are making a Taylor comparision, a LB. Let's stay with apples to apples (DEs to DEs) for now.

Dwight Freeney avgs. 2.2 tackles a game and .8 sacks a game.
Michael Strahan avgs. 3.95 tackles a game and .678 sacks a game.
Julius Peppers avgs. 3.21 tackles a game and .675 sacks a game.

There you go, here is your measuring stick, but these numbers are only for real games that count - no preseaon. Of course when you start counting you have to expect Mario as rookie to be some what under these 3 DEs numbers. It will not be until 2007 or 2008 before you can expect 3 tackles and .6 sacks a game.

hey, don't let facts get in the way of good rhetoric.

Nice post, man. Well done. :thumbup

Bamaborn-Texasbred
08-21-2006, 05:17 PM
I'm waiting for you to mention Aundray Bruce ....

Linebacker. He's one of two taken first overall since the merger.

chuckm
08-21-2006, 05:19 PM
Linebacker


you, as a Tide fan, would know this ..... 10 - 0 .....

Bamaborn-Texasbred
08-21-2006, 05:21 PM
are you about to throw bama's two losses to end the season at me?

chuckm
08-21-2006, 05:22 PM
are you about to throw bama's two losses to end the season at me?


no way ....... every year I spend away from Alabama college football makes me appreciate it even more .... 10 - 0 was was the result of the 1987 Iron Bowl

Nawzer
08-21-2006, 05:33 PM
I thought Mario Williams showed well. He definitely showed improvement from his first game and that's what I mainly wanted to see. For him it's all about getting confidence and getting comfortable. He has all the physical tools one could ever want and he's shown mentally he's strong. It's just a matter of time before he starts playing great. I was on the Reggie Bush camp before the draft and I was upset when they picked him but now I've started to move on. Both are great players and I think Mario Williams will be a special player for us.

DocBar
08-21-2006, 08:59 PM
Glad we didn't pick Bush. He's a bust. I've seen enough. -3 yds rushing(as in NEGATIVE YARDAGE) and just called for a fair catch on a punt and the ball was downed inside the 10.

Grid
08-21-2006, 09:04 PM
With that Defense, New Orleans isnt going anywhere. And with Bush's ego.. i give him 2 seasons before he starts demanding a trade.

pancho
08-21-2006, 09:24 PM
Saints need a defensive lineman.