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Honoring Earl 34
08-18-2006, 10:27 AM
:rant: If they would have put more iron in the hull of the Titanic .

The draft is over fool ... why do we still read this crap when I want to know how the Spencer vs Wand battles going or hows Bennie doing at FB . I don't want to read about Reggie freakin Bush .

Please Houston Chronicle send Mr. Lopez to report at Gulf Greyhound Park . He can then go around to the folks who are tearing up their tickets and tell them who they should have picked .

What a moron ... I got to tell you I was'nt expecting a Reggie Bush story the day before a game ... I got it . John start writing about taking Adrian Peterson next year .

Doom Capers
08-18-2006, 10:33 AM
10/10

i agree

the wonger need food
08-18-2006, 10:34 AM
john.lopez@chron.com


The guy doesn't write anything on the Texans for months and this is the best that he can come up with?

Mr. White
08-18-2006, 10:37 AM
During the Young vs. Bush draft war, I thought that Lopez made the most sense.

He presented the idea that drafting VY would essentially equate to trading David Carr and Reggie Bush for Vince Young. I was all for drafting Vince, but I thought that this idea made sense and his opinion made the idea of not drafting VY easier to swallow for me.

Then came draft day and he really turned me off with his whining over not drafting Bush. I was really disappointed after his making such a logical argument for not drafting VY.

Corrosion
08-18-2006, 10:43 AM
I read the title to his article .... didnt bother to click the link . Enough Bush talk . Get over it and Move On !

powerfuldragon
08-18-2006, 10:45 AM
putz is such a funny word to me. it just looks funny. i don't know.

jerek
08-18-2006, 10:56 AM
putz is such a funny word to me. it just looks funny. i don't know.

Agreed.

Double Barrel
08-18-2006, 10:59 AM
When there is a show I don't like, change the channel.

Same with Lopez. I don't waste my time even reading his cage droppings.

He should move to New Orleans if Reggie Bush means that much to him.

titan hater
08-18-2006, 11:07 AM
In general the media is just trying to stir the pot. Frankly, I don't give a darn about Bush or Young. They are not Texans, therefore, I wish all the local media would stop...

Worst Offenders:
Rich Lord. On and ON and ON...
Richard Justice. He should just stick to baseball.
John McClain. I thought for a while that he wanted to move in with VY or RB...

cuppacoffee
08-18-2006, 11:08 AM
When there is a show I don't like, change the channel.

Same with Lopez. I don't waste my time even reading his cage droppings.

He should move to New Orleans if Reggie Bush means that much to him.

I thought the same thing when I opened the chronic this am.

Get over it.

Extremely poor sportswriting.

Porky
08-18-2006, 11:18 AM
I thought his points were spot on. Good job to Mr. Lopez on a thought provoking column. If you people think the Reggie/Vince/Mario debate is going away anytime soon, I suggest you report to Reality asap. :fireball:

exclude
08-18-2006, 11:21 AM
Its hard to get over Bush because:

1. Mario hasn't show anything

2. VY and Bush have looked good (with Bush lookin really good)

3. DD is probably never coming back as the same person before his injury (thank god we drafted Lundy!!)

4. Texans went against the adage of drafting the BEST player and lets face it Williams, at this point, looks like the second coming of Courtney Brown

I can say, just from the first game observation, that this years draft will probably turn out to be the best draft in franchise history. Only time will tell if Mario will be included as a reason for saying that.

Honoring Earl 34
08-18-2006, 11:22 AM
I thought his points were spot on. Good job to Mr. Lopez on a thought provoking column. If you people think the Reggie/Vince/Mario debate is going away anytime soon, I suggest you report to Reality asap. :fireball:
Porky did you build a time machine ... if not there is no debate .

TEXANRED
08-18-2006, 11:24 AM
putz is such a funny word to me. it just looks funny. i don't know.
I am partial to schmuck.

jerek
08-18-2006, 11:28 AM
VY and Bush have looked good? VY was a friggin joke his first game. Bush had a number of forgettable runs tucked around a great run against a Titans second-team D. Somebody stop the presses.

Honoring Earl 34
08-18-2006, 11:29 AM
I am partial to schmuck.
According to the Urban Dictionary ... putz is more offensive than schmuck .

HOU-TEX
08-18-2006, 11:32 AM
Its hard to get over Bush because:

1. Mario hasn't show anything

2. VY and Bush have looked good (with Bush lookin really good)

3. DD is probably never coming back as the same person before his injury (thank god we drafted Lundy!!)

4. Texans went against the adage of drafting the BEST player and lets face it Williams, at this point, looks like the second coming of Courtney Brown

I can say, just from the first game observation, that this years draft will probably turn out to be the best draft in franchise history. Only time will tell if Mario will be included as a reason for saying that.

OK, VY was 4 for 11 and got hurt. Bush had 6 rushes for 59 yds. Take the run of 44 yds away=5 for 15 at 3yds per carry. Nice....NOT!:stirpot:

Honoring Earl 34
08-18-2006, 11:32 AM
VY and Bush have looked good? VY was a friggin joke his first game. Bush had a number of forgettable runs tucked around a great run against a Titans second-team D. Somebody stop the presses.
Some of these guys look at ESPN HIGHLIGHTS and determine the other 20 plays were great also . Did anyone else read Mork's grading of Mario ? He not only described Mario's actions but also the reaction of the OL and how that helped the Texans .

Jerry Jones
08-18-2006, 11:33 AM
Its hard to get over Bush because:

1. Mario hasn't show anything

2. VY and Bush have looked good (with Bush lookin really good)

3. DD is probably never coming back as the same person before his injury (thank god we drafted Lundy!!)

4. Texans went against the adage of drafting the BEST player and lets face it Williams, at this point, looks like the second coming of Courtney Brown

I can say, just from the first game observation, that this years draft will probably turn out to be the best draft in franchise history. Only time will tell if Mario will be included as a reason for saying that.
relax it was just the first preseason game!!!

Porky
08-18-2006, 11:44 AM
Porky did you build a time machine ... if not there is no debate .

You people slay me. Of course there is a debate. Heck, I know people that still talk about how stupid the Colts were for trading John Elway to the Broncos in 1983 for the Olineman and some other loose ends. That was 25 years ago. The debate is over? I am afraid it is only beginning.

srstex
08-18-2006, 11:45 AM
Thank you HOU-TEX, when I watched the Eastcoast Sports Network, I thought Bush lit up the place, but 3 yrd/per carry will not make you a stud. Reggie looked very Barry ( Sanders ) on one run, and VY has a ways to go.
In Kubiak we trust, he comes from Denver, who never takes a RB in round, and if Kubiak says Carr is the man, I believe.

goodnews boy
08-18-2006, 11:46 AM
I thought his points were spot on. Good job to Mr. Lopez on a thought provoking column. If you people think the Reggie/Vince/Mario debate is going away anytime soon, I suggest you report to Reality asap. :fireball:
Are you serious? Man lets wait until mid season to truly pass judgment on this. Mr. Williams will be an above average flirting with great player. That sounds stupid doesn't it? But he will impress more than he will depress everyone.:whip:

Honoring Earl 34
08-18-2006, 11:49 AM
You people slay me. Of course there is a debate. Heck, I know people that still talk about how stupid the Colts were for trading John Elway to the Broncos in 1983 for the Olineman and some other loose ends. That was 25 years ago. The debate is over? I am afraid it is only beginning.
Quick Porky , without lokking it up ... why did they trade Elway and who did the Colts get .

HOU-TEX
08-18-2006, 11:49 AM
Thank you HOU-TEX, when I watched the Eastcoast Sports Network, I thought Bush lit up the place, but 3 yrd/per carry will not make you a stud. Reggie looked very Barry ( Sanders ) on one run, and VY has a ways to go.
In Kubiak we trust, he comes from Denver, who never takes a RB in round, and if Kubiak says Carr is the man, I believe.

That is the way I look at it. Kubiak came in, he knows what he wants. Right now I've got all the trust for Kubiak in the world. He and the team look good right now. So whatever Coach decides I'll be happy with.:yahoo:

BigDTexansFan
08-18-2006, 11:52 AM
Some of these guys look at ESPN HIGHLIGHTS and determine the other 20 plays were great also . Did anyone else read Mork's grading of Mario ? He not only described Mario's actions but also the reaction of the OL and how that helped the Texans .

Ewwwww
Sports what sports
Pays no attention to facts
Network

Nuff Said:pigfly:

HJam72
08-18-2006, 11:58 AM
If John Elway played for the Colts, he would not have won any Super Bowls. He would've been stuck on a horrible team, with, I might add, a horrendous O-line. I know the team around Manning is better now, but it would've been too late for Elway to win as a Colt anyway.

Then, there's the salary cap.

Porky
08-18-2006, 11:58 AM
Quick Porky , without lokking it up ... why did they trade Elway and who did the Colts get .

The Colts got Chris Hinton, I remember that much. I do not remember who else. Clearly, the Broncos got the best end of the stick.

Honoring Earl 34
08-18-2006, 11:59 AM
MorKnolle
All Pro Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,971


My thoughts on Mario's first game

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is my evaluation of every single play that Mario was on the field last Saturday night after watching tape on the game a couple times thru:

Play 1)
1st & 10, 17 yard line - Chiefs in a weak I formation with 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 RB, the TE on the right side of their formation and the FB left of the QB.
Mario lines up as LDE, line up right on the TE (Gonzalez).
Chiefs call a running play away from Mario's side, Mario battles Gonzalez 1 on 1 with a relatively neutral result, not gaining much ground but not giving any up, and the play heads off the other direction without him really getting involved in it, the Chiefs gain 4 yards. Mario gets off the snap a little bit slow, but not bad.

Play 2)
2nd & 6, 21 yard line
False start

2nd & 11, 16 yard line - Chiefs line up with 2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB, with both TEs to the left side of the line and the RB offset to the right of the QB.
Mario is lined up at RDE, right on the 2nd TE.
Green goes into a 3 step drop and a quick throw on a curl route to the right side. Mario is doubled by the 2 TEs and the LG rolls over to lend some assistance as well, so he's double and triple teamed on the play. Mario pushes his way about 2 yards upfield and 2 yards into the pocket. The completed pass results in an 8 yard gain. Mario gets off the snap a little slower than he should be able too, but likewise not bad.

Play 3)
3rd & 3, 24 yard line - Chiefs line up with 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB, both the slot WR and TE are on the left side of their formation.
Mario lines up at LDT in the gap between the C and RG.
Green goes into a 7 step drop, throws to the left to the slot WR on a quick in & out route and throws too far outside (Dunta Robinson in coverage). Mario is initially doubled by the C and RG, once Will Shields has him locked down the C leaves to help on Weaver and should have been called for a block in the back in the process. Mario pushes about 4-5 yards up field, but was initially doubled and then left 1 on 1 with a likely future Hall of Famer. Mario gets off the snap decently well.

Play 4)
1st & 10, 29 yard line - Chiefs line up with 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 RB in a weak I formation. The FB motions from left to right to form a strong I (TE on the right side).
Mario is lined up at LDE, in the gap between RG and RT. Mario initially engages with Gonzalez and tosses him to the side with his left arm, then brushes off the FB who is coming to that side to block, which takes away the outside option in the run and opens the gap for Demeco Ryans to come thru for the tackle, the Chiefs gain 4 yards. Mario gets a decent start off the snap.

Play 5)
2nd & 6, 33 yard line - Chiefs line up with 2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB.
Mario lines up at RDE, outside the TE to the left side of the offensive formation, then he shifts inside to the gap between the LT and TE.
The Chiefs run in the other direction, MArio is shielded on the back side of the line and can't get involved in the play. The Chiefs gain 2 yards. Mario gets a decent start off the snap.

Play 6)
3rd & 4, 35 yard line - Chiefs line up with 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB, the slot WR and TE are to the left side, the outside WR motions in a few yards before the snap.
Mario lines up at LDT in the gap between the C and RG. Mario gets a 1 on 1 with Will Shields, gets about 4 yards upfield and tries a relatively ineffective spin move.
Green has a 7 step drop, throws down the middle and complete for 11 yards (Lewis Sanders in coverage). Green gets rid of the ball before pressure can get right in his face. Mario gets a good start off the snap.

Play 7)
1st & 10, 46 yard line - Chiefs line up with 2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB, double TEs to the left of the formation.
Mario lines up at RDE, in the gap between the LT and the 1st TE.
Green pitches the ball outside to Mario's side, he rides the 1st TE and doesn't really gain ground into the backfield but doesn't lose any ground, shrugs TE off and avoids the C who is pull blocking, and he gets an arm on LJ for his assisted tackle, Chiefs gain 3 yards on the play. Mario gets a little slow off the snap, although Barrett Green came up and tried to bump him to the outside right before the snap which may or may not have distracted him momentarily.

Play 8)
2nd & 7, 49 yard line - Chiefs line up with 2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB, 2 WR to the right, a TE on each side, then the TE on the right side motions out to the left.
Mario is lined up at RDE on the LT. Mario goes 1 on 1 with Turley, gives a hesitation step for his first two steps (I would much prefer to see him launch right in there and attack rather than hesitating). In the meantime Weaver makes a nice swim move on the LG then gets blocked in the back after getting by, also not called. When Mario gets after Turley, he bullrushes him and basically pancakes Turley. Green gets the ball off before the two of them can get to him and completes the pass for a 6 yard gain. Mario gets a decent start off the snap.

Play 9)
3rd & 1, 45 yard line - Chiefs line up with 1 WR, 2 TE, 2 RB, WR to the right who motions slightly inside before the snap.
Mario is lines up at LDE in the gap between the RT and TE.
Mario gets in a 1 on 1 battle with the RT on a running play up the middle, battle results basically in a stalemate with neither gaining ground. LT should have been called for holding after tackling Peek from behind when he shoots thru the gap. Chiefs gain 3 yards. Mario gets off a little slow, but not bad.

Play 10)
1st & 10, 42 yard line - Chiefs line up with 3 WR, 1 TE, 1 RB - Twins WR to the left, TE to the right side of the line.
Mario lines up at LDT in the gap between the RG and RT. Mario runs a stunt to his right, Chiefs run a draw right into the gap that Mario just vacated, Morlon Greenwood promptly blocked out of the way, Demeco Ryans overpursues into the hole and lets the RB by, Glenn Earl and Peek make the tackle after a 3 yard gain. Mario gets a decent start off the snap, Chiefs play happens to run in the gap our defense created with the stunt.

Play 11)
2nd & 7, 39 yard line - Chiefs line up with 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 RB, I right formation.
Mario lines up at LDE, outside the TE.
Chiefs run up the middle, Mario gets around the TE and RT but is behind the play afterward. Robaire Smith is doubled initially and bumped outside, Will Shields drives Weaver to the outside, C comes off his double on Smith and blocks Anderson, Demeco misreads initial direction of the play and ends up blocked by FB, Brown and Earl are a little slow reacting to the play and RB breaks CC's tackle, Earl and Barrett Green drag him down with a little assistance after a 10 yard gain. Mario gets a good start off the snap.

Play 12)
1st & 10, 29 yard line - Chiefs line up with 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 RB in an I right formation.
Mario is lined up at LDE in the gap between the RT and TE.
Mario is left 1 on 1 with the RT and is not especially effective with any move but pushes him about 7 yards upfield and into the pocket.
Chiefs run a play action pass and dump the ball off to the RB over the middle, Johnson runs to the left sideline and is gang tackled for a 5 yard gain, Green gets the ball off before pressure can get there. Mario gets an ok start off the ball.

Play 13)
2nd & 5, 23 yard line - Chiefs line up with 2 WR, 1 TE, 2 RB in an I left formation with a WR tight to the left side who motions over to the TE spot on the right side of the formation.
Mario is lined up at RDE right on the TE.
Chiefs run a cutback from the left to the right, Turley gets a good block on Mario and knocks him over, as shown repeatedly on ESPN (a.k.a. the anti-Texans network). Babin does a pretty good job blocking off the intended running lane, but Robaire misses a tackle in the backfield and the RB cuts back to the left side for a 3 yard gain. Mario gets off the snap a little slow.

Play 14)
3rd & 2 - 20 yard line - Chiefs line up with 2 WR, 2 TE, 1 RB, TE to the left motions to the right.
Mario lines up at LDE on the TE on the right side. Mario jumps to the outside on the snap and Barrett Green gets in there slow and doesn't plug up that opened gap, RB picks up 4 yards on a quick run right to that spot. Mario gets off the snap ok.

Play 15)
1st & 10, 16 yard line - Chiefs line up with 1 WR, 2 TE, 2 RB in a straight I formation with the WR to the left, then motions to the right.
Mario is lined up at RDE on the TE. Chiefs rnu a play action pass, MArio is cut blocked by the RB and nearly upended but stays on his feet, although he properly read the play action. QB dumps the ball off to the FB in the left flat for a 4 yard gain. Mario gets a decent start off the snap.

That's it, Mario was subbed out for Kalu on the next play that resulted in a 12 yard TD run. There are certainly several things Mario has to work on still, but I think he had a pretty solid 1st game if you watch the whole plays closely and what happens on them. Either way, he played 15 plays in an exhibition game and has pleny of room to improve and should become much more productive, especially when he's on the field for 70+ plays a game.

That's my evaluation of it.
__________________
We officially have a real defense.

Porky
08-18-2006, 12:01 PM
Are you serious? Man lets wait until mid season to truly pass judgment on this. Mr. Williams will be an above average flirting with great player. That sounds stupid doesn't it? But he will impress more than he will depress everyone.:whip:

I think that is what Mr. Lopez is saying. I think it was a balanced view. On the one hand, passing on Bush given DD could be considered a bone headed move. OTOH, Denver has always taken good RB's and made them great, so maybe that will happen here. Hopefully, Mr. Kubiak's hubris has not gotten in the way here.

Honoring Earl 34
08-18-2006, 12:02 PM
The Colts got Chris Hinton, I remember that much. I do not remember who else. Clearly, the Broncos got the best end of the stick.
Elway did not want to play for Frank Kush and the Colts . So he told them if they did not trade him he was going to play baseball for the Yankees . I just recall Chris Hinton out of Northwestern as one of the players , I know they got some picks also .

srstex
08-18-2006, 12:02 PM
The Colts got Chris Hinton, I remember that much. I do not remember who else. Clearly, the Broncos got the best end of the stick.

The Colts had to trade Elway, he had a MLB pitching contract waiting for him, it was "trade me or I walk". The Colts got what they could.

Carr Bombed
08-18-2006, 12:05 PM
If Elway stayed with the Colts, we might not have even seen his great football career. He was ready to play baseball for the Yankees. I have never heard anybody bash the Colts for trading Elway, they didn't have a choice, there was never even a debate if they screwed up. Elway had all the cards, he played them, end of story

nunusguy
08-18-2006, 12:10 PM
I generally like Lopezs stuff, but like all journalist hes got a deadline to produce a story and sometimes journalists can't think of a very good subject
to write about to meet their deadline. This may be one of those situations for Lopez.
But I got no problems passing on Bush, but am far from satisfied with taking
Mario - yet. I'm expecting nothing less than an extraordinary football player
to appear and the sooner the better. Ohterwise I will remain forever disappointed that we didn't trade our top pick for the #2 rated DE, the #2 rated running back and a first day DB.

Honoring Earl 34
08-18-2006, 12:12 PM
Joe Mauer, a slugging high school catcher with a strong arm, was taken by the Minnesota Twins with the No. 1 pick in Tuesday's baseball draft. Mauer, a three-sport star from nearby Cretin-Derham Hall in St. Paul, Minn., is the first catcher drafted with the top pick since Milwaukee took B.J. Surhoff in 1985. The 6-foot-4, 205-pound Mauer was USA TODAY's offensive player of the year in football this year, but intends to concentrate on playing baseball despite a scholarship to play quarterback at Florida State. The Chicago Cubs selected Mark Prior, the Southern California right-hander considered by some to be the best college pitcher ever, with the second pick.
:
This what the Texans hope for ... even if it is the 2001 baseball draft .

aj.
08-18-2006, 12:17 PM
You can play these 'what if' games until your fingernails turn blue. I'd rather focus on what we have and where we're going as opposed to the old and tired 'where we might have gone if...' debate.

Hulk75
08-18-2006, 12:28 PM
:rant: If they would have put more iron in the hull of the Titanic .

The draft is over fool ... why do we still read this crap when I want to know how the Spencer vs Wand battles going or hows Bennie doing at FB . I don't want to read about Reggie freakin Bush .

Please Houston Chronicle send Mr. Lopez to report at Gulf Greyhound Park . He can then go around to the folks who are tearing up their tickets and tell them who they should have picked .

What a moron ... I got to tell you I was'nt expecting a Reggie Bush story the day before a game ... I got it . John start writing about taking Adrian Peterson next year .
That would be sweet:cool:

Grid
08-18-2006, 12:29 PM
I have nothing against the Mario/RB debate... its going to happen. However.. there is a time and place for it. Like if Mario has a bad game, or Reggie has a good game.

There is plenty of other more important things to discuss right now with the rams game coming up

Also.. Why do our sportswriters suck so much? Honestly, It seems to me that a Houston sportswriter should question thier team from the standpoint of a fan who supports them.. rather than from the standpoint of a rival who wants to see the fail.

Our sportswriters seem to get some kind of sick pleasure out of turning the Houston fanbase against the Texans..and its bull****.

Brandon420tx
08-18-2006, 12:43 PM
How come a Mario/Reggie debate can't spring out when Mario has a good game? That sounds biased to me! :homer:

joetexan
08-18-2006, 12:47 PM
Sorry, guys - I didn't see anything in the Lopez piece that qualifies him as a putz or a moron or a schmuck. People who think the Texans did the right thing in taking Mario are in the vast minority. Lopez makes some very valid points, which culminate in the 900-pound gorilla in the room:

The Texans Need a Running Back.

And, let's not kid ourselves here - Bush did make a lot of fast guys look real slow last week. He ran decisively and, even if he did average 3 yards per carry on the other carries, he has the potential to do what he did on that 44-yard run on every single play he touches the ball.

Mario has been recognized for three things to date:
1. Being the top overall pick
2. Having really bad toenails
3. Getting put on his back by Kyle Turley

The guy needs to really be something to justify passing on Bush. And the Kubiak system needs to really be something, for the same reason. Otherwise, the Texans will look more ridiculous than ever for passing on Bush. That's not just the opinions of the national media - that's people I know who are and are not Texans fans, but who watch football and dislike the national media. That opinion is the majority.

And no, the debate is nowhere near over. Mario over Bush might have been the biggest shock in NFL draft history. It won't just go away in five months time.

Double Barrel
08-18-2006, 01:06 PM
The guy needs to really be something to justify passing on Bush.

He's already been justified. Coach Kubiak wanted him over Bush. Do any of you really think you're smarter or know more about football than Kubiak? Give me a break.

We needed BOTH positions filled. Acting like our d-line was not a priority is looking at this team with blinders on. When was the last time we put pressure on an opposing QB?! When did we ever have a pass rush for that matter? How about our run stopping?!

We've had adequate runners, even on a sorry arse team. But we've NEVER had a d-line worth squat. Give me dominant defense any day over a flashy individual player. Guess which one is more apt to take a team to a winning season?

People are living in the past with this debate. Why pick at your own scabs? Let your [self-inflicted] wound heal and allow yourself to have fun with this team. It's a new era in Texansland.

What "vast minority" are you talking about anyway? I saw Mario jerseys all over the stadium last game. Houston fans are moving on, looking ahead towards the future, and a small, VOCAL minority of people can't get over the fact that their boy was passed over for a variety of reasons.

Honoring Earl 34
08-18-2006, 01:14 PM
I don't care for a soap opera , I care for the team and what the team is doing . If I wanted to read about Bush I 'd subscribe to the New Orleans paper .

I watched the Texans run over KC , this leads me to believe we don't need a 60 million dollar Reggie . Reggie made one more play than Mario at a position where its the easiest transition from college to pros .

cbnjwill
08-18-2006, 01:18 PM
that makes no sense take away that long run and bush wouldnt have done nothing. hell thats what bush does make big plays. thats like saying take away that homerun berkman hit and hit didnt do alot in that game. ok ill go along for the fun of it take away the assisted tackle for mario and u really have nothing

Honoring Earl 34
08-18-2006, 01:30 PM
Yeah and the Astros lose . If you don't win the line of scrimmage ... its hard to win the game . If you win the line of scrimmage then you make everybody look good .

infantrycak
08-18-2006, 01:43 PM
that makes no sense take away that long run and bush wouldnt have done nothing. hell thats what bush does make big plays. thats like saying take away that homerun berkman hit and hit didnt do alot in that game. ok ill go along for the fun of it take away the assisted tackle for mario and u really have nothing

Yes he has to be credited with the long run, but looking at the remainder gives a look at his consistant production. Neither RB nor any other RB is going to do that every game much less several times a game--elite backs are in the 12-18 runs over 20 yards on the season. Look at this run--he didn't score. Teams still have to be able to put long sustained drives together, score and take time off the clock. That is what folks are examining--whether he will be able to be a full time back. This one game is far too early to tell but it isn't unreasonable to examine what happens on non-busted plays.

Doody
08-18-2006, 01:58 PM
The sportspages in the chronicle have been making a case for having two legit newpapers in a big city for a while. Lopez didnt even mention Clinton Portis in his list of RB's from denver, and i dont think that was on purpose to say that portis was a great running back regardless of the denver system. He also fails to mention that Lundys first preseason game made him look alittle like Reggie's older brother. Anyway, not that i think anyless of Mario now than before, but im starting to wonder if maybe we should have used the first pick on Demeco( kidding of course)...but i guess it makes us look smarter to find the def. rookie of the year in the 2nd round instead of the first.

infantrycak
08-18-2006, 02:09 PM
The sportspages in the chronicle have been making a case for having two legit newpapers in a big city for a while. Lopez didnt even mention Clinton Portis in his list of RB's from denver, and i dont think that was on purpose to say that portis was a great running back regardless of the denver system.

I wouldn't say regardless of the Denver system--quite the opposite. Portis is still a great RB but the production difference between the two teams with the same RB is stark:

Portis in Denver 2 years--563 carries, 3099 yds, 5.5 ypc, 29 TD's, 24 20+ runs, 155 1st downs (3.6 carries per 1st).
Portis in DC 2 years--695 carries, 2831 yds, 4.1 ypc, 16 TD's, 11 20+ runs, 139 1st downs (5 carries per 1st).

I'd say there couldn't be a better example of the difference between two systems' ability to utilize a player.

Bob_A
08-18-2006, 02:16 PM
Lopez IS a putz.

Lets assume Bush=Gale Sayers (the single most dynamic player I've ever seen)
From the NFL's Hall of Fame Sayers bio:
Gale Eugene Sayers. . .Kansas All-America. . .Exceptional break-away runner. . .Scored rookie record 22 TDs, 132 points, 1965. . .Led NFL rushers, 1966, 1969. . .Named all-time NFL halfback, 1969. . . All-NFL five straight years. . .Player of Game in three Pro Bowls. . .Career totals: 9,435 combined net yards, 4,956 yards rushing, 336 points. . . NFL lifetime kickoff return leader. . .Born May 30, 1943, in Wichita, Kansas.

Bears record during Sayers best seasons:
10 games under .500


Why is it so hard for writers (and others) to understand.... win the line of scrimmage...win football games.

houstonhurricane
08-18-2006, 02:17 PM
Some of you are really wandering on this topic. First, it most likely was a stupid article to write. There is nothing that can be done about the pick and we should welcome Mario as a Texan.

However, to attack Bush to try and justify a very risky draft decision is getting old. The kid looked spectacular and is one of the better PROSPECTS at that position we have seen in quite some time. If Kubiak felt Mario was the better decision for the Texans, then we will have to support him. But to say that Bush lacks skills and to attack his potential after one preseason game are silly.

Did Mario look great last week. No. Did Bush? Yes. Yet, that was one week in the preseason. Why can't we just enjoy watching both of these kids grow as football fans instead of trying to tear them apart to justify our position on the "draft issue?"

joetexan
08-18-2006, 02:25 PM
There were a lot of Mario jerseys at the Texans preseason opener, I agree. People in Houston want him to succeed, and are pulling for him. That doesn't necessarily mean that everyone thinks it was a better idea to take him over Bush. And it doesn't mean that the majority of NFL football fans think it was a better idea either.

As for the defensive line, they had already signed Weaver and were converting to a 4-3 where some of the other players could re-adjust from other positions to their native positions on the line. But at RB, they knew about Davis' knee before the draft and knew they were going in with nothing. They took Wali Lundy and are trying out him, Morency, and two undrafted rookie free agents for arguably the most important position on offense. That can be considered by some as a mistake, or by others as a correct move. I think most have the former view.

And guys, you just aren't getting my point about Bush's big-play ability - no, he's not going to do that on every play. But the thing is, he can eke out three and four yards just like Lundy. But he can be a gamebreaker too. Plus, he can line up at wideout without problems, and with all the motion out of the backfield from the Chiefs game, that would've been a plus too, with him, AJ, and Moulds.

My main point is, Lopez isn't off-base in his article. He's speaking what a lot of people are thinking.

cbnjwill
08-18-2006, 02:30 PM
the 44 yrd run was great but i wouldnt say bush played great overall. once the regular season begins and hes rushing 15 times a game getting 5-6 receptions a game we will really see the gamebreaker that bush is. i think he might lead the league in runs over 20yrds this yr. the guy is like barry sanders hes gonna have 4 carries for 15yrds then bam hes gona break off a 30 yrd run. for my money thats what i want a homerun hitter you can find anyback to come in and plod his way 3or 4 yrds on every carry.and no i dont need responses like detroit never won a superbowl or even if he is as good as sayers they were only 500 come on guys they were two of the greatest backs of all time and your gona put it on them because their teams were not great gimmee a break...

Double Barrel
08-18-2006, 02:43 PM
There were a lot of Mario jerseys at the Texans preseason opener, I agree. People in Houston want him to succeed, and are pulling for him. That doesn't necessarily mean that everyone thinks it was a better idea to take him over Bush. And it doesn't mean that the majority of NFL football fans think it was a better idea either.

I don't disagree with you that a lot of folks thought picking RB was a better choice. But most of those folks have gotten over the decision and moved on. It's been 4 months already and no amount of moaning and groaning will change what is.

And honestly, I could care less what the rest of the NFL thinks of us, same as they could care less what I think of their teams.

As for the defensive line, they had already signed Weaver and were converting to a 4-3 where some of the other players could re-adjust from other positions to their native positions on the line. But at RB, they knew about Davis' knee before the draft and knew they were going in with nothing. They took Wali Lundy and are trying out him, Morency, and two undrafted rookie free agents for arguably the most important position on offense. That can be considered by some as a mistake, or by others as a correct move. I think most have the former view.

And guys, you just aren't getting my point about Bush's big-play ability - no, he's not going to do that on every play. But the thing is, he can eke out three and four yards just like Lundy. But he can be a gamebreaker too. Plus, he can line up at wideout without problems, and with all the motion out of the backfield from the Chiefs game, that would've been a plus too, with him, AJ, and Moulds.

These are valid points, and can be understood from a variety of perspectives.

Obviously Coach Kubiak didn't think just adding Weaver was enough to improve our d-line. And it's also obvious that Kubiak - an offensive minded coach - was not so impressed with Bush that he felt it was a no-brainer pick. I honestly believe that he comes from a franchise that has proven - time and time again - that good backs can be made from middle round picks, and this is his perspective.

As has been mentioned, control the line = control the game (Football 101). This choice of Williams over Bush indicates this is Kubiak's mentality, as well. Bring in Flanagan at center, and hire Sherman to teach these guys how to block. Offensive line, check. Then bring in Weaver and pick Williams to give our d-line a much needed boost.

I'm not a Bush (the player) basher. Dude is going to be a human highlight reel, and I honestly look forward to watching him develop (as well as his ESPN highlights). I might be more skeptical about Bush the person, but that's a different story for another day.

But you can score all the points in the world, and if your defense can't stop the other team, then you've got to have a philosophy of outscoring opponents. But this is a dangerous course, because you rely solely on your offense to always be on. By building a solid defense, it takes pressure away from the offense to have to win games by their lonesome.

My main point is, Lopez isn't off-base in his article. He's speaking what a lot of people are thinking.

You know, you're right....if this article had been written four months ago!

Lopez just seems like he's run out of ideas, and has to take issue with something that has been discussed ad naseum for months now. Why not go back and gripe about the Astros letting Nolen Ryan go? Or gripe about the Rockets picking Hakeem over Jordan? It's all the past to me, and serves absolutely no purpose to cry over spilt milk.

da.texans
08-18-2006, 03:11 PM
Its hard to get over Bush because:

1. Mario hasn't show anything

2. VY and Bush have looked good (with Bush lookin really good)

3. DD is probably never coming back as the same person before his injury (thank god we drafted Lundy!!)

4. Texans went against the adage of drafting the BEST player and lets face it Williams, at this point, looks like the second coming of Courtney Brown

I can say, just from the first game observation, that this years draft will probably turn out to be the best draft in franchise history. Only time will tell if Mario will be included as a reason for saying that.

U are freaking Kidding me right????at this point???first preseason game of his rookie years playing only a first quarter and u calling him abust????/get real man.......

joetexan
08-18-2006, 03:20 PM
profootballtalk.com and SI's Don Banks both have articles/mentions on Bush/Mario today. So I think it's something that is still resonating with a lot of people, and will do so especially as the season nears.

I also think that based on what I've seen, Mario is probably a better person than Bush is. I'll definitely give you that.

But, I think that Kubiak with Bush would be a very explosive offense, along with a shored-up defense with Weaver and the 4-3 change (including DeMeco, who I think will win Defensive Rookie of the Year...).

And I agree to a certain extent that "control the line, control the game" applies, BUT...you've got to also be able to run the ball and score some points.

I think what it comes down to is, hype aside, if we had taken Bush, would we be worried about depth on the defensive line? I think not.

Vinny
08-18-2006, 03:25 PM
U are freaking Kidding me right????at this point???first preseason game of his rookie years playing only a first quarter and u calling him abust????/get real man.......It's amazing how Carr gets 5 years and some give Mario 11 snaps.

Battle Red Flash
08-18-2006, 03:27 PM
:rant: If they would have put more iron in the hull of the Titanic .

What a moron ... .

You are right about that.

Texan Gal 312
08-18-2006, 03:31 PM
He's already been justified. Coach Kubiak wanted him over Bush. Do any of you really think you're smarter or know more about football than Kubiak? Give me a break.

We needed BOTH positions filled. Acting like our d-line was not a priority is looking at this team with blinders on. When was the last time we put pressure on an opposing QB?! When did we ever have a pass rush for that matter? How about our run stopping?!

We've had adequate runners, even on a sorry arse team. But we've NEVER had a d-line worth squat. Give me dominant defense any day over a flashy individual player. Guess which one is more apt to take a team to a winning season?

EXACTLY -- And count me in as a member of "vast minority" or is it the "Silent Majority" ?

da.texans
08-18-2006, 03:31 PM
Sorry, guys - I didn't see anything in the Lopez piece that qualifies him as a putz or a moron or a schmuck. People who think the Texans did the right thing in taking Mario are in the vast minority. Lopez makes some very valid points, which culminate in the 900-pound gorilla in the room:

The Texans Need a Running Back.

And, let's not kid ourselves here - Bush did make a lot of fast guys look real slow last week. He ran decisively and, even if he did average 3 yards per carry on the other carries, he has the potential to do what he did on that 44-yard run on every single play he touches the ball.

Mario has been recognized for three things to date:
1. Being the top overall pick
2. Having really bad toenails
3. Getting put on his back by Kyle Turley

The guy needs to really be something to justify passing on Bush. And the Kubiak system needs to really be something, for the same reason. Otherwise, the Texans will look more ridiculous than ever for passing on Bush. That's not just the opinions of the national media - that's people I know who are and are not Texans fans, but who watch football and dislike the national media. That opinion is the majority.

And no, the debate is nowhere near over. Mario over Bush might have been the biggest shock in NFL draft history. It won't just go away in five months time.
Your right the texans need a running back...... Not A 56 Millions Running back. Lundy,morency or who ever we will bring in via FA with much cheaper price could solve the problem and uh.....one last time R BUSH RUNNING STYLE DOESN'T FIT COACH K RUNNING STYLE

Vinny
08-18-2006, 03:34 PM
having a back with a cap hit of 9 mil a year is not something you need to have in this offense. Look at Denver and what they did when Portis was in a position to bang their cap with a massive hit...they got rid of him and didn't miss a beat. No doubt Portis is a great back, but Denver didn't miss him and had money to upgrade their team in other areas.

da.texans
08-18-2006, 03:44 PM
having a back with a cap hit of 9 mil a year is not something you need to have in this offense. Look at Denver and what they did when Portis was in a position to bang their cap with a massive hit...they got rid of him and didn't miss a beat. No doubt Portis is a great back, but Denver didn't miss him and had money to upgrade their team in other areas.

That exactly what i'm talking about. In coach Kubiak system (AKA Denver System) you don't need a 60 Millions running back. And if you still Love BUSH so much please Join the Aint fan base and stop posting on this board. Why stick around with the texans when u don't like them????:shoot: :stirpot: :hides: :hides:

Honoring Earl 34
08-18-2006, 03:49 PM
The thing that really gets my goat is bringing this up in the paper again . I want to read about the team . If they wrote about VY thats fine he's a local kid but writing about Reggie is stirring the pot .

I must go and find a live chicken for a voodoo ritual so Mario gets 2 sacks tommorrow night . :chicken:

Double Barrel
08-18-2006, 04:04 PM
profootballtalk.com and SI's Don Banks both have articles/mentions on Bush/Mario today. So I think it's something that is still resonating with a lot of people, and will do so especially as the season nears..

Well, we can see it one of two ways: still resonating with people, or writers that have run out of ideas.

It's the beginning of football season! There is so much to discuss on a national level with 32 teams that beating up on a 2-14 Texans team shouldn't even be a consideration. It's lazy journalism, IMO.

(I'm not down on you, joetexan, but we've just had this exact same debate for four months in the forum now.)

I also think that based on what I've seen, Mario is probably a better person than Bush is. I'll definitely give you that.

Character has always been a consideration on this team, so it could have been a deciding factor behind the scenes.

But, I think that Kubiak with Bush would be a very explosive offense, along with a shored-up defense with Weaver and the 4-3 change (including DeMeco, who I think will win Defensive Rookie of the Year...).

I agree, it could have been something to watch. I admit that I was looking forward to seeing Bush in action, even though I was a trade down/defensive pick fan.

And I agree to a certain extent that "control the line, control the game" applies, BUT...you've got to also be able to run the ball and score some points.

I think what it comes down to is, hype aside, if we had taken Bush, would we be worried about depth on the defensive line? I think not.

This is true, but who do you want on your team: the Colts 2005 offense or the Steelers 2005 defense? (and remember who won that battle for the AFC Championship, too)

With regards to our d-line, we shall see. It was in shambles, and the only true veteran (even now) is Weaver. TJ is still in training, Williams is a rookie, and Peek/Babin were LBs last year. I can't say with any certainty that we would not have been worried, considering we were the 31st ranked defense last year.

Hervoyel
08-18-2006, 04:13 PM
Bad teams get lousy coverage, even locally. The Texans have been a bad team so nobody's spending any time looking hard at them to try and find truly interesting angles to write about. Reggie Bush/Mario Williams is the most recent "noteworthy" topic that the Texans have been involved with according to many sports writers. None of them are going to leave at least a passing reference to that out of their stories.

Porky is right, this debate is just beginning and we'll be hearing about this every time Bush has a big game, Mario has a big game, Bush has a bad game, or Mario has a bad game for at least another 2-3 years.

I thought the Lopez article had some good stuff in it but the general direction was irritating to me because I'm tired of reading about the Bush/Williams "thing". I think it just looks silly to be writing a chicken little'ish article about our running backs when we're coming off of a 173 yard effort. If we do something similar tomorrow against St Louis then it will look even more out of touch.

We have four young men in camp (Morency, Lundy, Taylor, and Rhodes) who appear more than capable of filling the role until Domanick Davis comes back or until the end of the season, whichever comes first.

The last think I'm worried about is our running game. The last thing I want to read about is the Saints running game and how it could be ours. We'll be fine, Reggie will be fine, and Mario will be fine.

HOU-TEX
08-18-2006, 04:18 PM
Bad teams get lousy coverage, even locally. The Texans have been a bad team so nobody's spending any time looking hard at them to try and find truly interesting angles to write about. Reggie Bush/Mario Williams is the most recent "noteworthy" topic that the Texans have been involved with according to many sports writers. None of them are going to leave at least a passing reference to that out of their stories.

Porky is right, this debate is just beginning and we'll be hearing about this every time Bush has a big game, Mario has a big game, Bush has a bad game, or Mario has a bad game for at least another 2-3 years.

I thought the Lopez article had some good stuff in it but the general direction was irritating to me because I'm tired of reading about the Bush/Williams "thing". I think it just looks silly to be writing a chicken little'ish article about our running backs when we're coming off of a 173 yard effort. If we do something similar tomorrow against St Louis then it will look even more out of touch.

We have four young men in camp (Morency, Lundy, Taylor, and Rhodes) who appear more than capable of filling the role until Domanick Davis comes back or until the end of the season, whichever comes first.

The last think I'm worried about is our running game. The last thing I want to read about is the Saints running game and how it could be ours. We'll be fine, Reggie will be fine, and Mario will be fine.

Ditto! I don't think the whole situation can be explained any better than this.:bananasplit:

Double Barrel
08-18-2006, 04:24 PM
Good post, Herv. One of your posts covers everything (as always). :thumbup

cred
08-18-2006, 04:26 PM
I am curious to see if anyone has wrote him a letter. I ask this because I did, and here is what I said.


I am just curious, you do realize that Bush is not with the texans, right. Here it has been months since the draft and you are trying to bring up controversy. Personally I don't care what Bush does, why? Because he is not a texan. I am a texan fan, even while in the military here in Ft. Benning, GA. Is there a possibility that Bush will be a great running back, yes. Is there also a chance that he may be a bust or get hurt? yes. Is there a chance that Mario Williams will be a bust? Yes. Is there a possibility that Williams will be superb player worthy of the first overall pick and perennial pro-bowler? yes. This is the NFL a "professional" football organization where nothing is guaranteed, year in and year out. I do not wish anything on Reggie Bush, but I am a little curious what you and the rest of the media types would say to a career ending injury in his first year? So how about you being a little more "professional" and report on what we do have and not on what we don't.

----------end-------------------------------------------------------------

Now I can understand the theory behind the debate, but personally I would leave that up to the "national media", not the local houston media. I want to here about the stuff we are doing (good or bad), not what could, would, or should have been.

just my :twocents:

HomeBred_Texan
08-18-2006, 04:59 PM
Well I got :twocents: also.

While I did want us to get Reggie Bush, but we didn't, I got over it. I also wanted us to get De'Angelo Williams from Memphis, and we didn't. I got over it. So no matter what I want, or who we get, I will get over it. When the time comes and I can't get over it, I will not renew my season tickets. And that my friends isn't going to happen until I am in a coma or dead.

As I have said before, Bush may be a great back, a good back, or a total bust. No one knows that answer right now. Nor do we know how Mario is going to turn out. I put absoulutely no stock in the 1st pre-season game. Them kids were all nervous and did not know what to expect on the field in front of a huge audience. I always look at it like this,

If this year sucks, then there is always next year. There are going to be some hit and miss kids in that draft as well and we will be sitting here 1 year from today having this same debate over that draft. We should have taken Quinn, no we should have taken Peterson, no we should have taken an OL, no we should have taken a DB, and on and on. That is what makes America great, we all have 2 things, an opinion, and a buttock........:bananasplit:

threetoedpete
08-18-2006, 05:25 PM
:rant: If they would have put more iron in the hull of the Titanic .

The draft is over fool ... why do we still read this crap when I want to know how the Spencer vs Wand battles going or hows Bennie doing at FB . I don't want to read about Reggie freakin Bush .

Please Houston Chronicle send Mr. Lopez to report at Gulf Greyhound Park . He can then go around to the folks who are tearing up their tickets and tell them who they should have picked .

What a moron ... I got to tell you I was'nt expecting a Reggie Bush story the day before a game ... I got it . John start writing about taking Adrian Peterson next year .
LOL, you KNEW that chibcha was going to run over as fast as he could as soon as soccer season was over, and raise his leg on our fire hydrant and let go.

That's his job. Throw fecal mater to the wall and let it splater where it will. Stop reading him.

NoBullTexan
08-18-2006, 06:06 PM
For you Porky! Only for you!

cbnjwill
08-18-2006, 06:35 PM
ok but do we need a $60 million dollar defensive end?

Doug
08-18-2006, 07:52 PM
I don't mean to sound like an idiot but what article is everyone talking about? I didn't see a link or anything.

Texans_Chick
08-18-2006, 08:00 PM
Well, we can see it one of two ways: still resonating with people, or writers that have run out of ideas.

My theory.

What most people know about the Texans is that last year they sucked and they passed Reggie Bush.

And the preseason game picked that scab again.

And the first AP article out there on the Texans played up the Mario was forgettable angle first. So there was more piling on about that.

If you listened to the Justice/McClain recent audio thing, they seemed to be imploring people to be patient.

But who can be patient when all the predraft hype was all Bush/VY, that the local and national people said it was stupid, and 99.999% of people don't know squat about Mario.

I know that there is no good in depth articles on Mario anywhere because I've read every blasted one of them, and felt compelled to write my own. And I am still a voice out there in the wilderness if you look for articles on Mario. If someone who researches him has a hard time finding good info on him, then what will the fan that is spoonfed everything by ESPN think?