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View Full Version : If he looks like a rookie, smells like a rookie, then he's a rookie


DontTreadOnMe
08-17-2006, 01:38 PM
hey guys,... i have noticed that many people (not just members of this forum, but the media as well) are proclaiming that mario looked like a "rookie" in his first preseason game. Well.. hmmm, im not a genius or anything, but putting his performance aside, isnt he a rookie??? hahaha, i dont want to be redundant and what not, but i find it funny that most people are exploiting mario for being a rookie.. and are "jumping the gun" on his first performance.

But, geez, this guy is a monster!!! He is HUGE, I can't believe with his size he has the athletic ability of someone like.... stevie francis,.. did anyone hear that super mario has the same vertical as francis?? that is unbelieveable...

Another thing, I like the idea of moving mario along the d-line to switch things up... but I think it might be alittle premature to experiment with him. I think that kubes might wanna put mario in his most comfortable position for the season(to break him in), and then move him around. Mario needs experience, and most importantly, confidence. I just hope that once the season starts, mario can register his first sack vs. philly,... because that can keep mario from "over committing" on plays, and over running certain scenarios in trying to get his first sack.

One question,... if ya'll were to compare LB Demeco Ryans to a current(or even former) NFL LB, who would it be?? Of what I have read, he seems like a smart player that may not have the best athletic abilities, but makes up for his short comings with his brains and leadership.

Sorry if im rambling... but we gotta be patient with mario, and I cant wait anymore for the season to start up... hopefully this is the year we finally beat the colts,... and maybe have a .500 season. Its ONNNNN!!!! :francis: :francis: :francis:

aj.
08-17-2006, 01:40 PM
hey guys,... i have noticed that many people (not just members of this forum, but the media as well) are proclaiming that mario looked like a "rookie" in his first preseason game. Well.. hmmm, im not a genius or anything, but putting his performance aside, isnt he a rookie??? hahaha, i dont want to be redundant and what not, but i find it funny that most people are exploiting mario for being a rookie.. and are "jumping the gun" on his first performance.




His head coach was the one who said "he played like a rookie" in his post game comments. Everyone else is just repeating what Kubiak said.

DontTreadOnMe
08-17-2006, 01:44 PM
His head coach was the one who said "he played like a rookie" in his post game comments. Everyone else is just repeating what Kubiak said.


Well, I was also talking about how espn conducted their highlights of the game, by showing mario getting handled by T.Gonz. and turley... I'd sure hope that a multiple Probowl TE would handle a rookie in his first ever preseason game!!!! :brickwall

Meloy
08-17-2006, 01:46 PM
I think the fourth quarter of games is where Mario will create the most havoc.

dtmoney82
08-17-2006, 01:46 PM
have to be patient with the fella. it's gonna take a lil time to make that transition.

This is Madden or NCAA, he's not gonna be able to sack the qb every other play.


just be patient...he's a work in progress

phan1
08-17-2006, 01:58 PM
Yes, he is a rookie. But I also don't think it's unfair to expect him, a 1st pick rookie, to make an instant impact right away. He is compared favorable to Julius Peppers, who won D rookie of the year. To expect him to do around the same ballpark as Julius did is what is to be expected IMO.

So yeah, I'm not going to go harp and holler after his 1st time on the field where he played only a couple plays. But as the season wears on, I will be dissappointed if this guy does not become or is at least given a serious run for rookie of the year (it is hard to compete with linebackers, guys who actually put up numbers).

Vinny
08-17-2006, 02:01 PM
I thought he played like a rookie. :tease:

also...I don't see Ryans physical deficiencies. He runs to the ball like Dunta does....with bricks. I think some of you guys just parrot the internet draftsperts takes.

DontTreadOnMe
08-17-2006, 02:08 PM
I thought he played like a rookie. :tease:

also...I don't see Ryans physical deficiencies. He runs to the ball like Dunta does....with bricks. I think some of you guys just parrot the internet draftsperts takes.

Well... regardless of how Demeco hits, his size and speed are not really there as far as a starting MLB in the NFL... As I said, he has the brains to make up for that, in which enables him to have a good "nose for the ball"... I am not trying to parrot anything, nor am I insulting the guy,.. I am simply looking at his "specs"... But, whom would you draw a comparison demeco to??

Vinny
08-17-2006, 02:12 PM
Well... regardless of how Demeco hits, his size and speed are not really there as far as a starting MLB in the NFL... You may want to check some of the rosters before you say that. Your living in the past when it comes to big run stopping MLB's dominating the scene in the NFL.

jerek
08-17-2006, 02:18 PM
You may want to check some of the rosters before you say that. Your living in the past when it comes to big run stopping MLB's dominating the scene in the NFL.

Didn't icak do a post about this a week back? Listed a bunch of Pro Bowler MLB weights -- most of them different from Ryans by a whole 2-4 lbs -- to discredit this exact same argument?

Icak, I don't remember what that thread was. Assuming I'm not fictionalizing your argument, please point us to it.

infantrycak
08-17-2006, 02:22 PM
For a little perspective on Mario stat production--he is most often compared to Julius Peppers. Over the course of Peppers' career he has averaged 3.2 combined tackles and assists per game, i.e. less than 1 per quarter of play and .67 sacks per game, i.e. 1 sack on average in 2 out of 3 games. One quarter of play is an absurd time period to try to look at stat production. He looked powerful (rag dolled Gonzo on one running play) and fast (Turley engaged him but only after a huge drop on one play leaving a big hole for Weaver to come thru to be in Green's face) and like a rookie (plenty of room for technique and experience to more fully exploit his assets).

By the way, Peppers only had sacks (3) in one of his 1st 5 games in the NFL and those came against a soon to be 3-13 Detroit.

DontTreadOnMe
08-17-2006, 02:23 PM
You may want to check some of the rosters before you say that. Your living in the past when it comes to big run stopping MLB's dominating the scene in the NFL.


good point... besides brian urlacher... I saw ray lewis is listed at: 6'1, 245... and demeco is listed at 6'1, 235... it'd be nice to see demeco follow in lewis's footsteps as far as his play and leadership go...

nunusguy
08-17-2006, 02:25 PM
I thought he played like a rookie. :tease:
also...I don't see Ryans physical deficiencies. He runs to the ball like Dunta does....with bricks. I think some of you guys just parrot the internet draftsperts takes.
Saying Mario played like a rookie is an expression of charity in lieu of the harsher assessment of just stating he didn't impress at all in his debut.

dtmoney82
08-17-2006, 02:26 PM
it'd be nice to see demeco follow in lewis's footsteps as far as his play and leadership go...

I hear ya on that one!


But that whole "murderer" crap doesnt fly well with me though..... :)

threetoedpete
08-17-2006, 02:27 PM
I thought he played like a rookie. :tease:

also...I don't see Ryans physical deficiencies. He runs to the ball like Dunta does....with bricks. I think some of you guys just parrot the internet draftsperts takes.
I'm just not comfortable with a 235 pound MLB. Just me. I'm ready to be convinced. Had a couple of false steps in the last game. Didn't mention it because it isn't important. He'll get it. Still believe WSLB is his best position. But we got what we got on the roster. If Richard believes, I believe.

As far as Mario goes, the football press is just following the ESPN lead. He's going to wear out some offensive lineman this year. Just give it time. Be patient.
Personally , I'm glad he's under everyones radar. Lot's of folks, IMHO fixin' to have some egg on their face.

DontTreadOnMe
08-17-2006, 02:28 PM
I hear ya on that one!


But that whole "murderer" crap doesnt fly well with me though..... :)


HAHAHA... well said!!!... ok, so lets hope demeco can follow lewis's ON-field production,... and create his own OFF-field image!!

Vinny
08-17-2006, 02:32 PM
Saying Mario played like a rookie is an expression of charity in lieu of the harsher assessment of just stating he didn't impress at all in his debut.
I coulda said he looked like a workout warrior! :chicken:

infantrycak
08-17-2006, 02:34 PM
I'm just not comfortable with a 235 pound MLB. Just me. I'm ready to be convinced.

What's it take to convince you? More of the pro-bowl MLB's over the last 2 years have been Ryans' size than Urlacher's size by over a 2 to 1 margin. Seems proof enough IMO that MLB's his size can succeed at a high level.

AFD1717
08-17-2006, 02:42 PM
I'll admit I was one of the "Ryans is too small to play MLB" crowd, but the folks on this board have turned me around. While I loved watching Al Smith blow guys up between the tackles, football seems to have evolved. You don't have to be 250 lbs to play inside anymore. Ryans is plenty big enough to play MLB and should even gain a few pounds in the next couple of years (the guy is only 22 or 23). As far as his speed goes, it may not be exceptional but it is adequate. Linebackers (especially inside linebackers) rely on instincts, positioning, and not taking false steps more than straight line speed. Ryans' intelligence and aggresive nature should turn him into one of the greats.

LBC_Justin
08-17-2006, 02:46 PM
Well... regardless of how Demeco hits, his size and speed are not really there as far as a starting MLB in the NFL... As I said, he has the brains to make up for that, in which enables him to have a good "nose for the ball"... I am not trying to parrot anything, nor am I insulting the guy,.. I am simply looking at his "specs"... But, whom would you draw a comparison demeco to??
hmmm interesting

if you are looking at only his specs then your first impression should be "Wow this guy is both smart, fast, strong and extremely atheletic"

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9326200 <-may want to read this.

you may want to look up Demeco's 40 times, vertical jump, bench press, etc before you decide he is not "athletic enough". Then go and compare those to other linebackers in the league.

Vinny hit it right not the nose, you are doing nothing but parroting the scouting reports. which almost all of them say a variation of this."weakness: Does not have great speed...Possesses only average size...Is not a great natural athlete...Could stand to bulk up and add some weight...Must hit the weight room and get stronger...Strengths: Very smart and incredibly instinctive with top football intelligence...Is like an extra coach on the field...Plays faster than he times...Is very aggressive and a sure tackler...Does all the little things..." -looks a lot like what you are saying huh?!

It is funny considering AJ Hawks is considered very fast, and extremely athletic and his two forty times are 4.59 and 4.67.
Demeco ran a 4.62. How fast does he have to be?
Demeco jumped 10.09 in the broad, AJ jumped 9.07.
Demeco benched 23 times, AJ put it up 24 times.
Demeco is taughted at the smartest linebacker in the draft all over the place. Granted AJ seems to play smart too.
AJ weight 10 pounds more than Demeco. Not a big deal considering no one has ever questioned his ability to lay a hit.

tulexan
08-17-2006, 02:50 PM
hmmm interesting

if you are looking at only his specs then you first impression should be "Wow this guy is both smart, fast, strong and extremely atheletic"

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9326200 <-may want to read this.

you may want to look up Demeco's 40 times, vertical jump, bench press, etc before you decide he is not "athletic enough". Then go and compare those to other linebackers in the league.

Vinny hit it right not the nose, you are doing nothing but parroting the scouting reports. which almost all of them say a variation of this."weakness: Does not have great speed...Possesses only average size...Is not a great natural athlete...Could stand to bulk up and add some weight...Must hit the weight room and get stronger...Strengths: Very smart and incredibly instinctive with top football intelligence...Is like an extra coach on the field...Plays faster than he times...Is very aggressive and a sure tackler...Does all the little things..." -looks a lot like what you are saying huh?!

It is funny considering AJ Hawks is considered very fast, and extremely athletic and his two forty times are 6.59 and 6.67.
Demeco ran a 6.62. How fast does he have to be?
Demeco jumped 10.09 in the broad, AJ jumped 9.07.
Demeco benched 23 times, AJ put it up 24 times.
Demeco is taughted at the smartest linebacker in the draft all over the place. Granted AJ seems to play smart too.
AJ weight 10 pounds more than Demeco. Not a big deal considering no one has ever questioned his ability to lay a hit.

I think you have your 40 times wrong.

AFD1717
08-17-2006, 02:52 PM
It is funny considering AJ Hawks is considered very fast, and extremely athletic and his two forty times are 6.59 and 6.67.
Demeco ran a 6.62. How fast does he have to be?


Rock on with the rest of your post, but are these numbers right? I think I can run 40 yards that fast.

DontTreadOnMe
08-17-2006, 02:58 PM
hmmm interesting
Vinny hit it right not the nose, you are doing nothing but parroting the scouting reports.which almost all of them say a variation of this."[B]weakness: Does not have great speed...Possesses only average size...Is not a great natural athlete...Could stand to bulk up and add some weight...Must hit the weight room and get stronger...Strengths: Very smart and incredibly instinctive with top football intelligence...Is like an extra coach on the field...Plays faster than he times...Is very aggressive and a sure tackler...Does all the little things..." -looks a lot like what you are saying huh?!


Ok, im a parrot.... geez, i simply stated how I feel about demeco, and asked for anybody that was interested to possibly draw a comparison to him.. Yes, what I said is very similar to the scouting reports, but I was only saying it so maybe comparisons could be made. But, according to you and vinny, demeco is the man,... nevermind him being a rookie or alittle bit undersized (i wish i didnt say that), we have a "cant miss, sure shot" HOF LB in our hands... YEEEHAAA, Go Demeco!!!!!!!!!

LBC_Justin
08-17-2006, 03:00 PM
I think you have your 40 times wrong.

Regarding Demeco:
I got it here (http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:10QrzuZHf6UJ:www.nfldraftcountdown. com/scoutingreports/olb/demecoryans.html+demeco+ryan&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=1)

Now that I look I am also seeing him at 4.65 and 4.77 (NFL.com has him at 4.77 has AJ halk at 4.73), so the point I was making remains unchanged. He is just as fast as guys that are said to be "extemely athletic".

LBC_Justin
08-17-2006, 03:01 PM
Rock on with the rest of your post, but are these numbers right? I think I can run 40 yards that fast.
LOL I just realized that it said 6.62 not 4.62. LOL
sorry about that guys!! LOL

I'll go back and edit it.

Vinny
08-17-2006, 03:05 PM
Ok, I'm a parrot.... geez, i simply stated how I feel about demeco, and asked for anybody that was interested to possibly draw a comparison to him.. Yes, what I said is very similar to the scouting reports, but I was only saying it so maybe comparisons could be made. But, according to you and vinny, demeco is the man,... nevermind him being a rookie or alittle bit undersized (i wish i didnt say that), we have a "cant miss, sure shot" HOF LB in our hands... YEEEHAAA, Go Demeco!!!!!!!!!
I just said that some of you guys do this...and it happens. No need to get therapy over it, but watch some game action before you take in opinions of others as your own...it helps.

LBC_Justin
08-17-2006, 03:10 PM
Ok, im a parrot.... geez, i simply stated how I feel about demeco, and asked for anybody that was interested to possibly draw a comparison to him.. Yes, what I said is very similar to the scouting reports, but I was only saying it so maybe comparisons could be made. But, according to you and vinny, demeco is the man,... nevermind him being a rookie or alittle bit undersized (i wish i didnt say that), we have a "cant miss, sure shot" HOF LB in our hands... YEEEHAAA, Go Demeco!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, I didn't mean to come across so harsh. It just bothers me, after watching Demeco play I can't imagine how anyone would call him "unathletic". I think one guy, wrote that one time, and all of the million scouting sites just cut and pasted it or just reworded it. Drives me crazy.

Anyways my comparison would be: Lance Briggs (j/k - i am just parroting this site (http://www.gridirongrumblings.com/draftanalysis/profile.php?player=DeMeco%20Ryan).)

DontTreadOnMe
08-17-2006, 03:16 PM
I just said that some of you guys do this...and it happens. No need to get therapy over it, but watch some game action before you take in opinions of others as your own...it helps.

hey, I just stated what I read/heard about him.... opinions of professional scouts... and everytime anybody says anything, you have to be rude or a smart a** about everything.. vinny, the master texan.... im sorry if you read the scouting reports before I did.. once again, I simply stated what was being said about him, and asked for a reasonable NFL comparison.. it probably feels good for an old man such as yourself to pick on somebody, if that helps you sleep at night, then go ahead, proceed....

tsip
08-17-2006, 03:36 PM
For a little perspective on Mario stat production--he is most often compared to Julius Peppers. Over the course of Peppers' career he has averaged 3.2 combined tackles and assists per game, i.e. less than 1 per quarter of play and .67 sacks per game, i.e. 1 sack on average in 2 out of 3 games. One quarter of play is an absurd time period to try to look at stat production. He looked powerful (rag dolled Gonzo on one running play) and fast (Turley engaged him but only after a huge drop on one play leaving a big hole for Weaver to come thru to be in Green's face) and like a rookie (plenty of room for technique and experience to more fully exploit his assets).

By the way, Peppers only had sacks (3) in one of his 1st 5 games in the NFL and those came against a soon to be 3-13 Detroit.

...exactly--we need to give support IMO, not unrealistic expectations! Your post is a 'necessary' read for people that expect Mario to be a 'sack/tackle' machine in his career-sure, he'll get his share, but IMO, he'll be known as "HAVOC MAN." Everywhere, anywhere, you never know...

Double Barrel
08-17-2006, 03:37 PM
vinny, the master texan

Now that's a Custom User Title! :cowboy1:

Vinny has got as much football smarts as anyone I've read, and there are a lot of folks here with great football knowledge. Don't take his sarcasm (which means he likes you when he uses it) too personal. We've all been on the receiving end at one time or another. :shades:

Williams and Ryans are both rookies, and I'm not going to place unrealistic expectations on either of them. I personally believe that they are both going to be Pro-Bowlers someday, but you're right, we have to be patient and understand that these positions take time to develop into elite players.

Insideop
08-17-2006, 03:42 PM
Sorry, I didn't mean to come across so harsh. It just bothers me, after watching Demeco play I can't imagine how anyone would call him "unathletic". I think one guy, wrote that one time, and all of the million scouting sites just cut and pasted it or just reworded it. Drives me crazy.

Anyways my comparison would be: Lance Briggs (j/k - i am just parroting this site (http://www.gridirongrumblings.com/draftanalysis/profile.php?player=DeMeco%20Ryan).)


I'm just glad that Kubes and his staff don't read/factor in all the media hype/crap when making their draft day selections! :mag:

Runner
08-17-2006, 03:43 PM
...exactly--we need to give support IMO, not unrealistic expectations! ...


Williams and Ryans are both rookies, and I'm not going to place unrealistic expectations on either of them. I personally believe that they are both going to be Pro-Bowlers someday, but you're right, we have to be patient and understand that these positions take time to develop into elite players.

Yep. Building up unrealistic expectations for rookies is a sure path for fan disappointment. I thought Winston was the one that was going to be set up for a big fall for not meeting silly expectations, but right now it's a tight race between sack machine Mario and Pro-Bowl candidate Spencer.

A player's strengths and weaknesses should both be considered, and on-field impact weighted more than stats. Keep in mind Daniel's recent comment about adjusting to game speed in the NFL. Practice isn't the same.

I think we'll be happy with this draft when we look back in 2-3 years and expect to see mixed results until then. Some of these players will have some good early impact as well.

painekiller
08-17-2006, 03:45 PM
Jonathan Vilma 6'1" 230 lbs
Lofa Tatupu 6'0" 238lbs
Odell Thurman 6'0" 236 lbs
Demeco Ryans 6'2" 236lbs
Do I need to go further? 3 of the best young MLB to play today.

Double Barrel
08-17-2006, 03:57 PM
Tatupu is a gamer, and I remember reading stuff about him from 'experts' indicating that he'd never adjust to the NFL, much less succeed. I just love it when these self-proclaimed gurus are blown-out-of-the-water wrong.

Texans_Chick
08-17-2006, 04:00 PM
I am getting stoned some on the fanblog about saying for people to be patient. Deadspin linked it, so I am getting some weird traffic.

After someone said some particularly pointed things about Mario, someone with an NC email address wrote this, and I thought it would be nice to share (I added paragraphs to make it easier to read):

Clear up one point Mario Williams did not get benched in the Wake Forest game. He broke a team rule and Coach Amato did not start him as punishment. He went on to have a pretty good game.

Second, check out the record of NC State vs. FSU, in Mario's last year against FSU he did great and we pulled out a win at Tallahassee. During his 3 years NC State was 2-1 against the Seminoles. NC State only played Miami once and Miami burned the secondary, the DL was not the problem. Thoroughly dominated by Miami and FSU, get real.

Something called character also counts, while Reggie was being paid to play at USC and his parents living rent free in a house owned by an agent, Mario is very close to graduating in THREE years. He worked part-time at a Subway to help his family out, along with attending practice and classes. He was willing to give up football and start working full time to help his sister after her husband passed away in Iraq. If you think Reggie Bush has that much character then keep dreaming.

Lastly, Mario did something that is really foreign to a lot of players today, he listened to his coaches. In his 3 years at NC State he played for 3 different DC's. All three required Mario to do different things, one was into zone blitzes and would pull Mario back into coverage. Nothing like watching a 6'7'' 300 lb DE stay stride for stride with with a WR or RB.

One was into having his DE's hold the line and let the LB's do the damage, and this year Coach Dunlap let him loose in the last half of the season because the offense was so horrible that he needed his defense to create turnovers and sacks. NC State went 5-1 last six games and won a bowl game. In essence Mario did everything his coaches wanted without thinking of how it would affect his draft position or individual stats. Texans got one hell of a MAN and a great player.

Link (http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2006/08/preseason_hysteria_mario_v_reg_1.html#comments)

Dr. Jones
08-17-2006, 04:29 PM
Off Topic

Steph,

Don't let all the Reggie Bush man love get you down, you made your point and we all know that logic and reason never win on the internet. (sarcasm)

Keep up the good work!

Double Barrel
08-17-2006, 05:00 PM
Thanks for the info, TC. The more I learn about MW, the more I'm glad he's a part of our team. Beyond the potential to be a stud DE, he's a good guy and great role model.

The Pencil Neck
08-17-2006, 05:03 PM
I thought he played like a rookie. :tease:

also...I don't see Ryans physical deficiencies. He runs to the ball like Dunta does....with bricks. I think some of you guys just parrot the internet draftsperts takes.

Well. John Clayton said... uh... I mean... I THINK that... um... uh... nevermind.

The Pencil Neck
08-17-2006, 05:18 PM
I am getting stoned some on the fanblog about saying for people to be patient. Deadspin linked it, so I am getting some weird traffic.

After someone said some particularly pointed things about Mario, someone with an NC email address wrote this, and I thought it would be nice to share (I added paragraphs to make it easier to read):

Link (http://blogs.chron.com/fanblogtexans/2006/08/preseason_hysteria_mario_v_reg_1.html#comments)

Now that almost brought a tear to my eye.

threetoedpete
08-17-2006, 06:02 PM
What's it take to convince you? More of the pro-bowl MLB's over the last 2 years have been Ryans' size than Urlacher's size by over a 2 to 1 margin. Seems proof enough IMO that MLB's his size can succeed at a high level.
Philly has some fair gaurds. He gets through the first game...I'll admit I'm wrong.