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coachdent
08-13-2006, 08:55 AM
Obviously after seeing Reggie Bush's nice run, the RB fans went wild and pointed the fingers at the Texans for their foolishness for not drafting Bush. However, there were a large amount of folks here who wanted VY...some saying that they would even give up their season tickets if we didn't draft him.

The Texans looked terrific in the opener and that is the most important thing.

But after watching Young's debut, I am THRILLED that the Texans made the absolute right choice not taking him.

I mentioned in previous posts the problems with Young and they all surfaced last night in spades....

His arm strength is NOT what people make it to be.
He cannot throw precise passes.
He cannot throw in the pocket.
He drops down with his arm ridiculously low...this won't go away soon.
He shows and showed VERY poor vision and decision making.

Last night he held on to the ball ridiculously long. The NFL network guys actually praised him for doing so and even showed a highlight of him waltzing around looking for a receiver. They lauded his ability to move in the pocket and find an open guy and said that he would have to do that because the Titan offensive line was bad. Well, on the play in question, he was in the pocket for four seconds. In the NFL, that ball needs to be out. He read the laces on the ball and then went on his scramble fest. There were two offensive holding penalties on the play BECAUSE of his scrambling.

He showed very poor judgement and even a large dose of awkwardness when he scrambled to his left and got injured. That was hideous.

I think so many people thought of the "upside" and "potential" of Young that they ignored his limitations...which are plenty. I said it before and I'll say it again. He did not throw a single NFL pass in the National Championship game and the plays he made in that game will not happen in the NFL. He scrambled out of the pocket the one time and the NFL network (which is quickly resembling the rah rah rooting tendencies of ESPN) showed his three yard run seventeen times.

At the very least, there can be no VY fan today saying that they were impressed by anything that they saw last night.

What does a National Championship game against USC mean translated into the NFL? 4-for-11 and 56 yards. Like the Championship game, Young showed his ability to avoid interceptions as two Saints were unable to come up with the crooked rainbow VY floated into the end zone.

KKHouston
08-13-2006, 09:02 AM
His arm strength is NOT what people make it to be.
He cannot throw precise passes.
He cannot throw in the pocket.
He drops down with his arm ridiculously low...this won't go away soon.
He shows and showed VERY poor vision and decision making.



Bravo!

He's just another Michael Vick.

:chicken:

Hulk75
08-13-2006, 09:05 AM
:popcorn: ...............This will be good.

infantrycak
08-13-2006, 09:10 AM
Folks let's keep all the he could have been a Texan but isn't threads in the NFL forum rather than the Bull Pen because THEY AIN'T TEXANS.

That said--c'mon. Everyone except Rich Lord knew VY would need some adjustment time. He is going to be much better than Michael Vick (not a high hurdle IMO)--give the boy some time--he is from Texas after all. There are only two days a year when anyone in Texas should be rooting for a bad VY day.

chuckm
08-13-2006, 09:13 AM
I'm gonna give a wedgie to the first person that types the word .... wonderlic

Sportsfan
08-13-2006, 09:14 AM
:popcorn: ...............This will be good.


ditto

KKHouston
08-13-2006, 09:17 AM
Folks let's keep all the he could have been a Texan but isn't threads in the NFL forum rather than the Bull Pen because THEY AIN'T TEXANS.

That said--c'mon. Everyone except Rich Lord knew VY would need some adjustment time. He is going to be much better than Michael Vick (not a high hurdle IMO)--give the boy some time--he is from Texas after all. There are only two days a year when anyone in Texas should be rooting for a bad VY day.

Duly chastized and noted. Vince is from Texas... and I do like him as a player. Just sick of the "Vince for President" committee. 3 days a year... 2 regular season, and 1 post season game against us. (wildcard?)

Bamaborn-Texasbred
08-13-2006, 10:03 AM
He is going to get some cheers when he makes a play at Reliant. Even though I liked him at UT there will be no cheering for him coming from me. I'll save my cheers for when Dunta picks him off and takes the ball the other way for six.

Tale Gator
08-13-2006, 10:22 AM
He looked very rookie last night, but that was expected -- he had a big 50 yard pass dropped and made some wild throws. No fumbles or interceptions though so that's positive. He did lead them down for a couple of drives for field goals, but was anxious in the red zone.

Reggie looked game ready - impressive.

FILO_girl
08-13-2006, 10:40 AM
Watching the media play up the VY fiasco during the game last night (DVR rules). They had to interview a couple tack lovers, wearing the distinctive #10 in barfy blue. Last time I checked, we were playing the Chiefs and them tacks were chasing the Saintly buzz word. No need to start the crap again.

The media potstirring is BS. Go chase ambulances and not looked over draft pics. :twocents:

axman40
08-13-2006, 12:00 PM
VY's play was about right for a rookie QB with 2 weeks of training camp.

:shades:

The Dream
08-13-2006, 01:00 PM
^^^exactly...meanwhile our backup QB looked better than David Carr last night.

Huge
08-13-2006, 01:23 PM
Mario Williams' stat line from yesterday: 1 assisted tackle, 0 sacks

Apparently Williams is on his way to a busted career as well.

Or is it just a stupid idea to judge a rookie the first time they see the field?

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 01:24 PM
i wish like hell i had seen the titans saints game last night....but i didn't, nor any highlights. I just think its funny that vince young is described as "playing like a rookie" while DC was described as having "jitters"......Young has a bomb DROPPED and its barely mentioned....David throws a bomb and its broken up by a defender who had a legitimate read on the ball and everyone wants to applaud it as a great throw. I guess Carr has never had a bad game to some fans

Honch Delgado
08-13-2006, 02:22 PM
Didn't have access to either the Texans or Titans games so can't make any first hand comments but from reading the Titans board, receivers dropped a couple of VY passes and the O-line was called for various penalties and had trouble blocking. Sound familiar?

Wolf
08-13-2006, 02:27 PM
i wish like hell i had seen the titans saints game last night....but i didn't, nor any highlights. I just think its funny that vince young is described as "playing like a rookie" while DC was described as having "jitters"......Young has a bomb DROPPED and its barely mentioned....David throws a bomb and its broken up by a defender who had a legitimate read on the ball and everyone wants to applaud it as a great throw. I guess Carr has never had a bad game to some fans

I take it you are talking about the ball that was tipped by the linebacker. I think you might want to find that play and see it in slowmotion again.
it was a good throw but an even better knockdown

Titan "Tack" Fan
08-13-2006, 02:31 PM
I was at the Titans game last night and Vince looked good like 75% of the time.

Looked good: Had a 50 yard beautiful pass right in a guys hands that was completely just dropped. Made a 15 yard scramble to get in field goal range at the end of the 1st half. Made some bullet throws (one which was dropped as well)

Looked not-so-good: Needs to decide when to throw the ball away, for example he scrambled and got a 3 yard loss instead of throwing it away. Made some really unadvised throws that looked bad.

He didn't force any turnovers so that's good.


Reggie looked like a man. Pac-Man played like an All-Pro.

Hookem Horns
08-13-2006, 02:35 PM
Mario Williams' stat line from yesterday: 1 assisted tackle, 0 sacks

Apparently Williams is on his way to a busted career as well.

Or is it just a stupid idea to judge a rookie the first time they see the field?

Exactly. Judging anyone from their very first preseason game is pretty idiotic.

Huge
08-13-2006, 02:42 PM
Apparently coachdent is the kind of guy that farts in a room on his way out. Leave something rank for everybody else to deal with while he avoids it.

StarStruck
08-13-2006, 02:46 PM
I don't think a coach could be more candid.:hides: That's some scary stuff there.

Wolf
08-13-2006, 02:54 PM
I was at the Titans game last night and Vince looked good like 75% of the time.

Looked good: Had a 50 yard beautiful pass right in a guys hands that was completely just dropped. Made a 15 yard scramble to get in field goal range at the end of the 1st half. Made some bullet throws (one which was dropped as well)

Looked not-so-good: Needs to decide when to throw the ball away, for example he scrambled and got a 3 yard loss instead of throwing it away. Made some really unadvised throws that looked bad.

He didn't force any turnovers so that's good.


Reggie looked like a man. Pac-Man played like an All-Pro.
came close on to with that flip that should have been intercepted (play where he twisted his ankle.)

but that is just something to build on

aj.
08-13-2006, 03:29 PM
I just watched the play when he turned his ankle. He's very lucky it wasn't worse. That's one of the big risks you take with a QB like that. Playmaking ability for physical toll being the risk trade.

bigtex77
08-13-2006, 07:30 PM
i wish like hell i had seen the titans saints game last night....but i didn't, nor any highlights. I just think its funny that vince young is described as "playing like a rookie" while DC was described as having "jitters"......Young has a bomb DROPPED and its barely mentioned....David throws a bomb and its broken up by a defender who had a legitimate read on the ball and everyone wants to applaud it as a great throw. I guess Carr has never had a bad game to some fans

Did David Carr sleep with your girl or something? I'm sorry, but the hatred for him seems to run deeper than just a fan to player type of thing with you. :jk:

kbourda
08-13-2006, 09:14 PM
Obviously after seeing Reggie Bush's nice run, the RB fans went wild and pointed the fingers at the Texans for their foolishness for not drafting Bush. However, there were a large amount of folks here who wanted VY...some saying that they would even give up their season tickets if we didn't draft him.

The Texans looked terrific in the opener and that is the most important thing.

But after watching Young's debut, I am THRILLED that the Texans made the absolute right choice not taking him.

I mentioned in previous posts the problems with Young and they all surfaced last night in spades....

His arm strength is NOT what people make it to be.
He cannot throw precise passes.
He cannot throw in the pocket.
He drops down with his arm ridiculously low...this won't go away soon.
He shows and showed VERY poor vision and decision making.

Last night he held on to the ball ridiculously long. The NFL network guys actually praised him for doing so and even showed a highlight of him waltzing around looking for a receiver. They lauded his ability to move in the pocket and find an open guy and said that he would have to do that because the Titan offensive line was bad. Well, on the play in question, he was in the pocket for four seconds. In the NFL, that ball needs to be out. He read the laces on the ball and then went on his scramble fest. There were two offensive holding penalties on the play BECAUSE of his scrambling.

He showed very poor judgement and even a large dose of awkwardness when he scrambled to his left and got injured. That was hideous.

I think so many people thought of the "upside" and "potential" of Young that they ignored his limitations...which are plenty. I said it before and I'll say it again. He did not throw a single NFL pass in the National Championship game and the plays he made in that game will not happen in the NFL. He scrambled out of the pocket the one time and the NFL network (which is quickly resembling the rah rah rooting tendencies of ESPN) showed his three yard run seventeen times.

At the very least, there can be no VY fan today saying that they were impressed by anything that they saw last night.

What does a National Championship game against USC mean translated into the NFL? 4-for-11 and 56 yards. Like the Championship game, Young showed his ability to avoid interceptions as two Saints were unable to come up with the crooked rainbow VY floated into the end zone.

You are so right for your analysis of a person playing in his FIRST PRE-SEASON game. Hey, lighten up. I know you may have won a ton of fans that bash VY on a regular basis but your critique, seriously, is weak. Once again we all have opinions but to pile on the man for something like this is wack. This is the preseason, remember that.

thunderkyss
08-13-2006, 09:56 PM
I just watched the play when he turned his ankle. He's very lucky it wasn't worse. That's one of the big risks you take with a QB like that. Playmaking ability for physical toll being the risk trade.


yeah if he'd be a more pocket friendly QB like Carson Plamer.... or Byron Leftwich..... he'd have a much longer career.......

just mess'n with you aj...... I know what you mean.....

But this thread...... the original post.... makes it hard for some of us to let the Vince thing go...... I'm perfectly happy with the waythe draft worked out, and I though Vince looked good last night..... & I still think he should have won the Hiesman.

But I don't think this MB is the place to discuss it. Because then everybody will be telling me to let it go.... what's done is done, and I should be more supportive of David Carr.

But let me just say..... I'm a Culpepper fan.... I'll root for JoeHorn...... I'm a Demarcus Ware fan, and a TNewman fan...... I think Darren Howard should play on the end, Lavar Arrington is the best LB in the game, I am rooting for Kurt Warner to do it again, & I think Terrell Owens is misunderstood.

But the Texans are my team........ & as long as they aren't playing the Texans(once in four years) I'll be rooting for Dallas to go to the SuperBowl(To lose to the Texans).....

So try to understand, I am a Texans Fan, and I'm a VinceYoung fan....... always will be.

Kinda like Archie Manning..... I'm sure he'll be rooting for the Colts and the Giants to go to the Superbowl.

Titan "Tack" Fan
08-14-2006, 12:58 AM
Vince vs. Cutler next weekend. We got lucky on this pre-season schedule, two really good matchups.

TexansLucky13
08-14-2006, 01:03 AM
Vince vs. Cutler next weekend. We got lucky on this pre-season schedule, two really good matchups.

Agreed. I won't beat around the bush, though.... Cutler is looking intense. We get to play against him week 3! Hehe.

coachdent
08-14-2006, 10:52 AM
Apparently coachdent is the kind of guy that farts in a room on his way out. Leave something rank for everybody else to deal with while he avoids it.

How so? Interesting to hear other observations and I understand that it was the first preseason game. Was tired of the VY bandwagon and reiterated what I have said about him all along.

Kaiser Toro
08-14-2006, 11:03 AM
How so? Interesting to hear other observations and I understand that it was the first preseason game. Was tired of the VY bandwagon and reiterated what I have said about him all along.

So you admittedly start a thread to talk bad about someone? Take time out of your day to have your voice heard talking bad about a 23 year old kid who plays second string quarterback. I honestly hope you are from Texas, because if not your motive reeks to start a thread such as this.

HOOK'EM
08-14-2006, 12:20 PM
Vince vs. Cutler next weekend. We got lucky on this pre-season schedule, two really good matchups.

Cutler looked GREAT, while Young liked like crap. I don't think it will be any diffrent this coming week.

KKHouston
08-14-2006, 12:21 PM
Cutler looked GREAT, while Young liked like crap. I don't think it will be any diffrent this coming week.

I think Cutler will be a huge surprise. Plummer has something to worry about.

The Dream
08-14-2006, 12:23 PM
How so? Interesting to hear other observations and I understand that it was the first preseason game. Was tired of the VY bandwagon and reiterated what I have said about him all along.

But that's the thing it was "1" "preseason" game.....you act like the guy has a couple of years under his belt or something.....it would be just as silly if someone would start a thread saying Vince will be a hall of famer just because he had one good game

dtran04
08-14-2006, 12:37 PM
But that's the thing it was "1" "preseason" game.....you act like the guy has a couple of years under his belt or something.....it would be just as silly if someone would start a thread saying Vince will be a hall of famer just because he had one good game


I couldn't care less about VY but I guarantee that ten threads would suddenly appear if he had a good game.

The Dream
08-14-2006, 12:55 PM
you're probably right, but it still would be just as silly.

Double Barrel
08-14-2006, 03:32 PM
He is going to be much better than Michael Vick (not a high hurdle IMO)--give the boy some time--he is from Texas after all. There are only two days a year when anyone in Texas should be rooting for a bad VY day.

I'm not on the "bash-VY" bandwagon, but him being a Titan overrules his Texas roots. I can never, ever bring myself to root for a Tennessee Titan under any circumstance.

I hope VY is a bust because I hope that every player the Titans pick is a bust. I'd be a happy camper to see that franchise go 20+ years without a winning season. :D

texan279
08-14-2006, 03:38 PM
IMO it's a little early to judge Young, Bush, or Mario based on one preseason game.

Huge
08-14-2006, 03:51 PM
How so? Interesting to hear other observations and I understand that it was the first preseason game. Was tired of the VY bandwagon and reiterated what I have said about him all along.
The fact that you feel justified about your comments before he was drafted tells me you do not understand that it was the first pre-season game.

If you truly understood that it was the first pre-season game, you wouldn't have bothered starting this thread.

GuerillaBlack
08-14-2006, 03:52 PM
The pre-Season should have two games for each team spanning the for week period. Have 16 teams one week, then 16 the next. Do it again to last four weeks.

HJam72
08-14-2006, 04:03 PM
I'm not on the "bash-VY" bandwagon, but him being a Titan overrules his Texas roots. I can never, ever bring myself to root for a Tennessee Titan under any circumstance.

I hope VY is a bust because I hope that every player the Titans pick is a bust. I'd be a happy camper to see that franchise go 20+ years without a winning season. :D

That's precisely how I feel, especially since Bud Adams insisted on taking Young at least partly to stick it to Houston fans.

GuerillaBlack
08-14-2006, 04:10 PM
Bud Adams is horrible.

chuckm
08-14-2006, 04:12 PM
the Texans are in the AFC South
the Titans are in the AFC South
I'm a Texan fan


therefore .........


I hope Vince Young is a major bust
I hope Joseph Addai is a major bust
I hope Marcedes Lewis is a major bust

Double Barrel
08-14-2006, 05:10 PM
I'm glad they drafted VY and will enjoy following his career.

I'll enjoy watching him, even when rooting against him. Just like I enjoyed the Cowboys Superbowl seasons in the early '90's. Couldn't stand that they were winning, but man, were they fun to watch!

Hey, good football is good football no matter who is playing it. As a football fan, I can't help but appreciate it when I see it.

Huge
08-14-2006, 05:36 PM
I'm not on the "bash-VY" bandwagon, but him being a Titan overrules his Texas roots. I can never, ever bring myself to root for a Tennessee Titan under any circumstance.

I hope VY is a bust because I hope that every player the Titans pick is a bust. I'd be a happy camper to see that franchise go 20+ years without a winning season. :D
If he had chosen to go to Tennessee (as a high schooler picks his college), then I would agree. But college players can't decide where they're going to play, unless your last name is Manning of course, so I won't hold it against them.

Vince can still have a great career while the Titans as a team do nothing.

axman40
08-14-2006, 05:51 PM
If he had chosen to go to Tennessee (as a high schooler picks his college), then I would agree. But college players can't decide where they're going to play, unless your last name is Manning of course, so I won't hold it against them.

Vince can still have a great career while the Titans as a team do nothing.

Or Elway!
:superman:

Nawzer
08-14-2006, 05:54 PM
Didn't see the Titans game but from what I have seen he had a typical rookie QB type of game. He made mistakes but that's to be expected when you play the hardest position in all of sports. I'm still rooting for him except when he play the Texans.

The Dream
08-14-2006, 05:57 PM
I consider myself a Texans fan, but I would still love to see VY succeed in the NFL.

Double Barrel
08-14-2006, 07:33 PM
If he had chosen to go to Tennessee (as a high schooler picks his college), then I would agree. But college players can't decide where they're going to play, unless your last name is Manning of course, so I won't hold it against them.

Vince can still have a great career while the Titans as a team do nothing.

yeah, good point. I always liked Aikman, Moose, Smith, Novacheck, etc., even though I rooted against them every week.

Don't get me wrong, I like VY as a person and a player. I just have a hard time hoping an individual gets a lot of stats, but on a losing team. Is that even possible? idonno:

michaelm
08-14-2006, 08:48 PM
VY's play was about right for a rookie QB with 2 weeks of training camp.

:shades:

Tell that to Jay Cultler.

michaelm
08-14-2006, 08:55 PM
If you truly understood that it was the first pre-season game, you wouldn't have bothered starting this thread.


Based on that logic, we shouldn't have a single thread discussing any of the good play that the Texans had Saturday...

I think that most of us are smart enough to put our opinions into the correct context.. that of the first preseason game.
Within that context, all play is open to discussion.

Huge
08-14-2006, 08:56 PM
So by the time the season starts, Cutler should complete 100% of his passes. Barring drops from his receivers, of course.

Or do you think these QBs might look better/worse on some nights than others?

michaelm
08-14-2006, 09:36 PM
So by the time the season starts, Cutler should complete 100% of his passes. Barring drops from his receivers, of course.

Or do you think these QBs might look better/worse on some nights than others?


Silly comments like that really undermine the validity of any argument you might have IMO.

The post I responded to was

VY's play was about right for a rookie QB with 2 weeks of training camp.


Jay Cutler and VY had almost exactly the same amount of NFL experience coming into their first games.

SO, why would one be 'about right for a rookie QB with 2 weeks of training camp.' and the other not?

No reason whatsoever, hence;

Tell that to Jay Cutler.

thanks for your extreme and exagerated observation, though.

Yvette
08-15-2006, 12:09 AM
Did you all hear Theisman tonight? He doesn't think any of the three QB's has what it takes to be successful, unless they're in a tailor made system.

Anyway, do the Broncos have Oline and receiver issues like the Titans?

aj.
08-15-2006, 04:17 AM
Did you all hear Theisman tonight? He doesn't think any of the three QB's has what it takes to be successful, unless they're in a tailor made system.

Anyway, do the Broncos have Oline and receiver issues like the Titans?

With a 36 year old Rod Smith and Javon Walker (recovering from a knee injury) as your top two receivers and "who knows" beyond that, yeah, I'd say they have some issues at WR. Lelie, apparently is still pouting.

They still have Lepsis, Nalen and Foster on their o-line so I don't know about that -- but I could be missing something since I haven't checked in on them lately.

Joe (when I was in the league) Theeesman, doesn't realize the game has passed him by so I typically take his comments with a block of salt. He still thinks it's 1978 with Cathy what's her name chasing him...

threetoedpete
08-15-2006, 05:17 AM
Did David Carr sleep with your girl or something? I'm sorry, but the hatred for him seems to run deeper than just a fan to player type of thing with you. :jk:
Yeah I've been wondering that also. Gurl heck, musta runt his dog over.

I've said it from day one, VY has the chance to be Steve Young squared. (That's the highest compliment I can think of. ) He ain't there yet. His athletic ablity has carried him a long way. Had his payday...
But.......
If he wants to be a HOFer he's going to have to change his throwing motion. Yes he gets "it" "there", but getting it there... close, is not going to cut it in the NFL. We'll see if he can learn or not. Great athlete no doubt. And on a good day
he might have the tallent to beat us a few time a couple of years down the road on his on. But untill he fixes that funky passing motion...all he'll ever be is a freakish athlete, not a NFL qb. And certainly not a HOFer.

threetoedpete
08-15-2006, 05:30 AM
Did you all hear Theisman tonight? He doesn't think any of the three QB's has what it takes to be successful, unless they're in a tailor made system.
Anyway, do the Broncos have Oline and receiver issues like the Titans?

Cutler will be a stud. What I've seen so far from Cuttler makes me think the Snakes days are numbered in Mile high. Theisman sometimes throws stuff against the wall like John Lopez, chronicle comunist, er coloumnist. That's what makes them interesting. Cuttler looks like a Younger faster Namith to me. We'll see. Out of the three, he has the live arm and the best chance to make it.

Yeah well I wouldn't be to quick to underestimate Rick Smith. They got guys in the wings. Just because we've never heard of them doesn't mean they can't play. I wouldn't underestimate the Broncos organization. Not prudent.

HOOK'EM
08-15-2006, 07:58 AM
Did you all hear Theisman tonight? He doesn't think any of the three QB's has what it takes to be successful, unless they're in a tailor made system.

Anyway, do the Broncos have Oline and receiver issues like the Titans?


Hey, didn't you guys go out and get David Givens?

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 07:59 AM
Tell that to Jay Cultler.

Cutler is playing with a bunch of guys who were playing football in January...... Vince was playing with a bunch of guys who were watching him play in January.

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 08:10 AM
Joe (when I was in the league) Theeesman, doesn't realize the game has passed him by so I typically take his comments with a block of salt. He still thinks it's 1978 with Cathy what's her name chasing him...

To give him some credit, he's basically right...... heck, every QB needs the team to be built around him, if he's going to be really successful. I can't think of one QB who doesn't. Teams build around their QB.

JayCutler, IMHO is on a team that was built for a QB like him. IMHO, Plummer is a square peg, they are trying to put in a round whole....... well he may be an oval peg..... and he almost fits.

Lienart is going to need an Anquan Boldin, a Larry Fitzgerald, and Edgerin James, a Milford Brown, and a top rated Defense to be successful. Where Jake will be fine, with one or the other.

Vince is going to have the same problem McNabb, McNair, & Cunningham has had...... their organizations seem to look for less talent to put around their athletic QB, thinking that his athleticism is going to make up the difference.

McNabb(who I really don't like) is probably the best example of what I'm talking about. AFAIK, he hasn't had any real talent on that team consistently, and he's got them into the NFC championship game 3 times.......... or is it 4??

Just imagine if he had a good Duece Staley & well behaved T.O. in the same year........ they'd have been unstoppable.

texan279
08-15-2006, 08:31 AM
To give him some credit, he's basically right...... heck, every QB needs the team to be built around him, if he's going to be really successful. I can't think of one QB who doesn't. Teams build around their QB.

JayCutler, IMHO is on a team that was built for a QB like him. IMHO, Plummer is a square peg, they are trying to put in a round whole....... well he may be an oval peg..... and he almost fits.

Lienart is going to need an Anquan Boldin, a Larry Fitzgerald, and Edgerin James, a Milford Brown, and a top rated Defense to be successful. Where Jake will be fine, with one or the other.

Vince is going to have the same problem McNabb, McNair, & Cunningham has had...... their organizations seem to look for less talent to put around their athletic QB, thinking that his athleticism is going to make up the difference.

McNabb(who I really don't like) is probably the best example of what I'm talking about. AFAIK, he hasn't had any real talent on that team consistently, and he's got them into the NFC championship game 3 times.......... or is it 4??

Just imagine if he had a good Duece Staley & well behaved T.O. in the same year........ they'd have been unstoppable.

Big Ben was plugged into an already established team and he seems to be doing well with it.

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 09:30 AM
Big Ben was plugged into an already established team and he seems to be doing well with it.

& how is that different from what I said??

Cutler is in the same situation..... the team picked the right QB for their system.... the team is already built for him. Over the next few years, it will be tweaked & customized for him....... getting Plaxico for Ben is part of that.

Lets put Big Ben in SanFrancisco, or Indianapolis, or even Philly, and see how that works for him.

texan279
08-15-2006, 09:33 AM
& how is that different from what I said??

Cutler is in the same situation..... the team picked the right QB for their system.... the team is already built for him. Over the next few years, it will be tweaked & customized for him....... getting Plaxico for Ben is part of that.

Lets put Big Ben in SanFrancisco, or Indianapolis, or even Philly, and see how that works for him.

You said in your post a "every QB needs a team to be built around him to be successful", you said "teams build around their QB", you did not that a QB can be plugged into an already established team and succeed. The Steelers were not built around Big Ben, they were there when he was drafted. And Plaxico plays for the Giants not the Steelers, Plaxico left the Steelers in '04.

chuckm
08-15-2006, 09:35 AM
Big Ben was plugged into an already established team and he seems to be doing well with it.


I don't want to speak for 279, but here's my take on how I took what he meant ....

It seems to me that you could plug almost any QB into the Pittsburgh team and have them be successful. All that's required is to hand off the ball, hit some play action passes, make some audible calls, and make an occasional tough throw.

I'm taking nothing away from Ben, but he wouldn't flourish in a system that required an "athletic" QB but an "athletic" QB would flourish in the Pittsburgh system ... :twocents:

texan279
08-15-2006, 09:40 AM
I don't want to speak for 279, but here's my take on how I took what he meant ....

It seems to me that you could plug almost any QB into the Pittsburgh team and have them be successful. All that's required is to hand off the ball, hit some play action passes, make some audible calls, and make an occasional tough throw.

I'm taking nothing away from Ben, but he wouldn't flourish in a system that required an "athletic" QB but an "athletic" QB would flourish in the Pittsburgh system ... :twocents:

That is my point pretty much in a nutshell. IMO you can plug almost any QB into an established team and it makes it easier for him to succeed, I do not think it is a necessity or any better for a team to build around a QB.

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 09:44 AM
You said in your post a "every QB needs a team to be built around him to be successful", you said "teams build around their QB", you did not that a QB can be plugged into an already established team and succeed. The Steelers were not built around Big Ben, they were there when he was drafted. And Plaxico plays for the Giants not the Steelers, Plaxico left the Steelers in '04.

I was wrong about Plaxico.....

whether you start with a QB, or you start with the O, and get a QB to fit, it's the same thing to me. Unless you are saying that any QB in Pittsburgh will work. My point is that Ben Fits the system they run in Pittsburgh. Ben is the kind of QB Cowher was looking for when he put that team together.

Just like Cutler is a closer to what Shanahan had in mind for Denver than Jake is. Vince is more in line with the kind of QB Fisher has built his team around than Matt is...

Only so many teams have gotten by with bus drivers (like Trent Dilfer) but bus drivers rarely become "successful" QBs.

Ben is not a bus driver.

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 09:47 AM
I don't want to speak for 279, but here's my take on how I took what he meant ....

It seems to me that you could plug almost any QB into the Pittsburgh team and have them be successful. All that's required is to hand off the ball, hit some play action passes, make some audible calls, and make an occasional tough throw.

I'm taking nothing away from Ben, but he wouldn't flourish in a system that required an "athletic" QB but an "athletic" QB would flourish in the Pittsburgh system ... :twocents:

Kinda like a Kordell Stewart type??

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 09:49 AM
That is my point pretty much in a nutshell. IMO you can plug almost any QB into an established team and it makes it easier for him to succeed, I do not think it is a necessity or any better for a team to build around a QB.


then we are on the same side of the argument, I never said anything contrary.

This started because Thiesman said Matt, Cutler, and Vince will need systems customized for them, so that they can be successful..... I said this was true for all QBs.

texan279
08-15-2006, 09:49 AM
I was wrong about Plaxico.....

whether you start with a QB, or you start with the O, and get a QB to fit, it's the same thing to me. Unless you are saying that any QB in Pittsburgh will work. My point is that Ben Fits the system they run in Pittsburgh. Ben is the kind of QB Cowher was looking for when he put that team together.

Just like Cutler is a closer to what Shanahan had in mind for Denver than Jake is. Vince is more in line with the kind of QB Fisher has built his team around than Matt is...

Only so many teams have gotten by with bus drivers (like Trent Dilfer) but bus drivers rarely become "successful" QBs.

Ben is not a bus driver.

I wasn't talking about just on offense, but the defense as well, the team as a whole. And I thought Fisher and Chow wanted Leinart?

The Dream
08-15-2006, 09:50 AM
I notice a lot of people are worried about VY's throwing motion....I've been watching the game of football for a good number of years now, and I can honestly say.......so what?.....the man in my avatar is one of the greatest to ever play at the QB position and he's never had the "standard" throwing motion that most people talk about a QB having...to be honest when a QB is moving around in the pocket I bet you most of the time a good number of the passes they throw aren't thrown in the "standard" throwing motion......I think it's a little over exaggerated.

texan279
08-15-2006, 09:51 AM
then we are on the same side of the argument, I never said anything contrary.

This started because Thiesman said Matt, Cutler, and Vince will need systems customized for them, so that they can be successful..... I said this was true for all QBs.

You said a team had to be built around a QB for them to be successful, you didn't say schemes and plays needed to be changed for QB's to be successful...

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 09:51 AM
Did you all hear Theisman tonight? He doesn't think any of the three QB's has what it takes to be successful, unless they're in a tailor made system.

Anyway, do the Broncos have Oline and receiver issues like the Titans?


To give him some credit, he's basically right...... heck, every QB needs the team to be built around him, if he's going to be really successful. I can't think of one QB who doesn't. Teams build around their QB.



Try to keep up with the class 279.............

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 09:52 AM
...........And I thought Fisher and Chow wanted Leinart?


Until proven otherwise, that's just BS speculation started by the media....

chuckm
08-15-2006, 09:54 AM
Kinda like a Kordell Stewart type??


Kordell would've been fine if he could've .....

1) Handed off the hall
2) Hit some play action passes
3) make some audible calls
4) hit an occasional tough throw

I'll leave it to you to decide which (if any) of the above that he couldn't consistently accomplish ....


I didn't say you could pull a homeless guy from the bus station downtown and plug him in .....

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 09:54 AM
I notice a lot of people are worried about VY's throwing motion....I've been watching the game of football for a good number of years now, and I can honestly say.......so what?.....the man in my avatar is one of the greatest to ever play at the QB position and he's never had the "standard" throwing motion that most people talk about a QB having...to be honest when a QB is moving around in the pocket I bet you most of the time a good number of the passes they throw aren't thrown in the "standard" throwing motion......I think it's a little over exaggerated.


There's a lot of things that man in your avatar doesn't do the right way.... his footwork, has been an issue since I can remember..

he is not one of my favorite QBs, but I can't argue with his success. Sometimes, the rules just don't apply.

texan279
08-15-2006, 09:54 AM
Try to keep up with the class 279.............

What are you talking about? First you say QB's need a team to be built around them to be successful. Then you say adjustments to plays and gameplans need to be made for a QB to be successful. Those are two totally different things but you say they are the same. Building a team is adding players, coaches, and personnel to improve the team, making adjustments to playcalling and schemes is all X's and O's.

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 09:56 AM
Kordell would've been fine if he could've .....

1) Handed off the hall
2) Hit some play action passes
3) make some audible calls
4) hit an occasional tough throw

I'll leave it to you to decide which (if any) of the above that he couldn't consistently accomplish ....


I didn't say you could pull a homeless guy from the bus station downtown and plug him in .....

I honestly don't think Kordell had the guts, or the brains to be a QB in the NFL. But that's neither here nor there......... I'm just pointing to an athletic athlete who wasn't successful in Pittsburgh as a QB......

of course this team isn't the same as that team, but again..... neither here nor there.

texan279
08-15-2006, 09:57 AM
I was wrong about Plaxico.....

whether you start with a QB, or you start with the O, and get a QB to fit, it's the same thing to me. Unless you are saying that any QB in Pittsburgh will work. My point is that Ben Fits the system they run in Pittsburgh. Ben is the kind of QB Cowher was looking for when he put that team together.

Just like Cutler is a closer to what Shanahan had in mind for Denver than Jake is. Vince is more in line with the kind of QB Fisher has built his team around than Matt is...

Only so many teams have gotten by with bus drivers (like Trent Dilfer) but bus drivers rarely become "successful" QBs.

Ben is not a bus driver.

Until proven otherwise, that's just speculation started by you...

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 10:07 AM
What are you talking about? First you say QB's need a team to be built around them to be successful. Then you say adjustments to plays and gameplans need to be made for a QB to be successful. Those are two totally different things but you say they are the same. Building a team is adding players, coaches, and personnel to improve the team, making adjustments to playcalling and schemes is all X's and O's.

when did I say that?? I said teams build around their QB....... & although I didn't say it, but I consider the coach to be one of the builders.... IMO, trying to find a head coach to fit a QB is the wrong move.

First the Owner should decide what kind of team he wants. Then he should find a coach to can put that kind of team together. the coach should tell the GM what kind of players he needs, the GM should go out and get it.

For an owner to say I want this guy to be my QB, then try to find a coach & GM that can make him successful is ass backwards, and how teams get stuck in mediocrity.

I know this isn't the way most teams do it in the NFL..... but most teams today are pretty mediocre...

jerek
08-15-2006, 10:09 AM
McNabb(who I really don't like) is probably the best example of what I'm talking about. AFAIK, he hasn't had any real talent on that team consistently, and he's got them into the NFC championship game 3 times.......... or is it 4??

Just imagine if he had a good Duece Staley & well behaved T.O. in the same year........ they'd have been unstoppable.

No real talent except for a perenially top-ranked defense, offensive line, and Brian Westbrook. His WR corps have been so-so but McNabb's batting a pretty high percentage on supporting cast. And 4 NFC championships IIRC. IMO McNabb laid an egg in the SB but I guess we'll never really know if he was sick, unlucky, or what.

Agree with what you're saying on the need for tailoring your system to the QB's talents. Been saying that for years with Carr and we have a coach who believes it now. You don't see Tony Dungy running a lot of boots with Peyton Manning. That said, there are teams in which certain QBs are obviously more prone to succeed, without necessarily having their coach go long and far out of his way to adjust the system to the man. I have been saying for months now that I think Leinart will shine the most out of any of the rooks simply for being in Arizona with Fitz, Boldin, and the Edge and in Denny Green's pass-happy system. Contrast this to Vince playing for the Tacks; it's not an ideal situation to land in the NFL in.

texan279
08-15-2006, 10:11 AM
when did I say that?? I said teams build around their QB....... & although I didn't say it, but I consider the coach to be one of the builders.... IMO, trying to find a head coach to fit a QB is the wrong move.

First the Owner should decide what kind of team he wants. Then he should find a coach to can put that kind of team together. the coach should tell the GM what kind of players he needs, the GM should go out and get it.

For an owner to say I want this guy to be my QB, then try to find a coach & GM that can make him successful is ass backwards, and how teams get stuck in mediocrity.

I know this isn't the way most teams do it in the NFL..... but most teams today are pretty mediocre...


This started because Thiesman said Matt, Cutler, and Vince will need systems customized for them, so that they can be successful..... I said this was true for all QBs.

Customizing systems and building teams are two totally different things...

Huge
08-15-2006, 10:23 AM
Based on that logic, we shouldn't have a single thread discussing any of the good play that the Texans had Saturday...

I think that most of us are smart enough to put our opinions into the correct context.. that of the first preseason game.
Within that context, all play is open to discussion.
Most posts are smart enough to have opinions put into the proper context. And when they are, you'll see a bunch of people nodding in agreement, even me.

IMO, this thread wasn't one of them. And judging from the majority of responses on this thread, I'm not alone.

Silly comments like that really undermine the validity of any argument you might have IMO.
No more silly than you implying a QB with similar experience and the same amount of time to prepare should be able to go out and have a solid performance because another did. If VY completes 85% of his passes next week with 2 TDs and 0 INTs, does that justify everybody that supported the Texans drafting Vince? I wouldn't think it does...it's only one game.

Or you can take the simpler concept and realize that not every performance is going to be the same.

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 10:26 AM
No real talent except for a perenially top-ranked defense, offensive line, and Brian Westbrook. His WR corps have been so-so but McNabb's batting a pretty high percentage on supporting cast. And 4 NFC championships IIRC. IMO McNabb laid an egg in the SB but I guess we'll never really know if he was sick, unlucky, or what.


Defense aside....... McNabb would still be considered one of the Best NFL QBs simply because of the stats he puts up.

BrianWestbrook.. Imho is potential talent...... & he's used more as a reciever than a RB.

Offensive line...... show me were they rank high anywhere other than a stat that takes sacks into account..... right now, I just don't know of anyway to rank them otherwise... & bieng that McNabb doesn't just sit there and take sacks, I think this is a case of the QB making the OL look good.......... it's hard to say.

jerek
08-15-2006, 11:00 AM
Defense aside....... McNabb would still be considered one of the Best NFL QBs simply because of the stats he puts up.

BrianWestbrook.. Imho is potential talent...... & he's used more as a reciever than a RB.

Offensive line...... show me were they rank high anywhere other than a stat that takes sacks into account..... right now, I just don't know of anyway to rank them otherwise... & bieng that McNabb doesn't just sit there and take sacks, I think this is a case of the QB making the OL look good.......... it's hard to say.

Westbrook was a receiving threat who accumulated a lot of total yardage both on the ground and through the air. Doesn't IMO matter how he did it so long as he provides, which he did.

The Eagles have one of the biggest O-lines in football and feature multiple Pro Bowlers (Tra Thomas and Runyan, and I want to say there's one more that I'm not remembering offhand). You can't discount McNabb's scrambling ability but when he stays in the pocket he still has an awful lot of time. Just watch tape of their O-line if you can (not implying I regularly study the Eagles, but I did catch one of their games on NFL Network and recently their preseason games), or wait until we play them ... they are upper echelon. Will be a great test for Mario and Co. and Richard Smith, IMO.

texan279
08-15-2006, 11:04 AM
Westbrook was a receiving threat who accumulated a lot of total yardage both on the ground and through the air. Doesn't IMO matter how he did it so long as he provides, which he did.

The Eagles have one of the biggest O-lines in football and feature multiple Pro Bowlers (Tra Thomas and Runyan, and I want to say there's one more that I'm not remembering offhand). You can't discount McNabb's scrambling ability but when he stays in the pocket he still has an awful lot of time. Just watch tape of their O-line if you can (not implying I regularly study the Eagles, but I did catch one of their games on NFL Network and recently their preseason games), or wait until we play them ... they are upper echelon.

Whenever I think McNabb I think about that play he pulled off on MNF where he was in the backfield for like 16 seconds scrambling around and then completed that 70 yard pass I think it was. O line definitely held up there.

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 01:00 PM
Westbrook was a receiving threat who accumulated a lot of total yardage both on the ground and through the air. Doesn't IMO matter how he did it so long as he provides, which he did.

The Eagles have one of the biggest O-lines in football and feature multiple Pro Bowlers (Tra Thomas and Runyan, and I want to say there's one more that I'm not remembering offhand). You can't discount McNabb's scrambling ability but when he stays in the pocket he still has an awful lot of time. Just watch tape of their O-line if you can (not implying I regularly study the Eagles, but I did catch one of their games on NFL Network and recently their preseason games), or wait until we play them ... they are upper echelon. Will be a great test for Mario and Co. and Richard Smith, IMO.

You're right, Westbrook is really talented.... but when your runningbackis your main reciever, you have a problem...... and they've never had a strong running game...... which is why they haven't won the big one..... yet.

Again... with their OLine..... how do we know that defenses aren't holding back, just incase McNabb decides to take off?? Surely that's part of the equation. Last year, there was plenty of pressure on McNabb, heck from the second week of October, he was just taking a butt wuppin week in, and week out. I remember how impressed I was with Washington & Denver and how long they were able to keep the pressure on him(that's pretty much what I'd like to see from our DLine).

michaelm
08-15-2006, 01:04 PM
No more silly than you implying a QB with similar experience and the same amount of time to prepare should be able to go out and have a solid performance because another did. If VY completes 85% of his passes next week with 2 TDs and 0 INTs, does that justify everybody that supported the Texans drafting Vince? I wouldn't think it does...it's only one game.

Or you can take the simpler concept and realize that not every performance is going to be the same.


VY's play was about right for a rookie QB with 2 weeks of training camp.

I said "Tell that to Jay Cutler". That's all I said.
Cutler has basiacally the same NFL experience and had a different outcome.
There's really no implication there. The systems are different, the level of experience of the supporting cast was different, the coaches were different, the weather was different, the crowd was different... whatever.

Why would one player's performance be 'just about right' for a player of the same experience level, and another's not?
I'm not dogging VY or pimping Cutler... just pointing out that I disagree with the statement.
The statement may be more true than untrue... who knows... but it MOST obviously is not entirely true.

texan279
08-15-2006, 01:15 PM
You're right, Westbrook is really talented.... but when your runningbackis your main reciever, you have a problem...... and they've never had a strong running game...... which is why they haven't won the big one..... yet.

Again... with their OLine..... how do we know that defenses aren't holding back, just incase McNabb decides to take off?? Surely that's part of the equation. Last year, there was plenty of pressure on McNabb, heck from the second week of October, he was just taking a butt wuppin week in, and week out. I remember how impressed I was with Washington & Denver and how long they were able to keep the pressure on him(that's pretty much what I'd like to see from our DLine).

You say part of the equation was that defenses were holding back in case McNabb took off, then you talk about how much pressure McNabb got. :confused:

Huge
08-15-2006, 03:01 PM
Agreed. Though I'm not sure why you quoted me before posting this.

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 04:34 PM
You say part of the equation was that defenses were holding back in case McNabb took off, then you talk about how much pressure McNabb got. :confused:


I'm pretty sure Jerek wasn't talking about how good Philly's Offensive line was last year alone. We(us grown folk) were talking about McNabb over his career, and the talent level he has had around him in that time. When McNabb first came into the league, and he burned defenses with his legs, I'm saying teams were cautious with him, which may help the Oline look better than what they really were.

Last year, it appears that many teams found that a commitment to the blitz was the best way to beat McNabb..... hence the increase in blitzes he saw in 2005.......

The same thing happened to Warner, and is happening to Manning. Teams tried to outsmart them, and beef up their coverage schemes.... New Englands 3-4 confused Manning, and you saw several teams try to implement 3-4 defenses....... After Last years playoffs, I think teams are coming to understand that you need to keep steady pressure on Manning, like they did to Warner in the later part of his StLouis tenure......

look, if you can't keep up, maybe you should just watch.

coachdent
08-15-2006, 06:57 PM
The fact that you feel justified about your comments before he was drafted tells me you do not understand that it was the first pre-season game.

If you truly understood that it was the first pre-season game, you wouldn't have bothered starting this thread.

I understand it was a preseason game. I will reserve my comments to the NFL board and will wait until the season starts and he has some real game under his belt. I thought the way that he threw the ball was extremely awkard and un-NFL, regardless of the type of game it was. Coaches use preseason games to evaluate talent and their players. Butch Davis made an observation about VY's performance that I felt was way off base saying that VY was impressive. I apologize for going too far. I apologize to Vince and his family.

texan279
08-15-2006, 09:37 PM
I'm pretty sure Jerek wasn't talking about how good Philly's Offensive line was last year alone. We(us grown folk) were talking about McNabb over his career, and the talent level he has had around him in that time. When McNabb first came into the league, and he burned defenses with his legs, I'm saying teams were cautious with him, which may help the Oline look better than what they really were.

Last year, it appears that many teams found that a commitment to the blitz was the best way to beat McNabb..... hence the increase in blitzes he saw in 2005.......

The same thing happened to Warner, and is happening to Manning. Teams tried to outsmart them, and beef up their coverage schemes.... New Englands 3-4 confused Manning, and you saw several teams try to implement 3-4 defenses....... After Last years playoffs, I think teams are coming to understand that you need to keep steady pressure on Manning, like they did to Warner in the later part of his StLouis tenure......

look, if you can't keep up, maybe you should just watch.

First off, you do not have to talk to me as if I am a child, Second, I was simply asking a question as to why you said this... how do we know that defenses aren't holding back, just incase McNabb decides to take off?? Surely that's part of the equation. Last year, there was plenty of pressure on McNabb, heck from the second week of October, he was just taking a butt wuppin week in, and week out. I remember how impressed I was with Washington & Denver and how long they were able to keep the pressure on him

You say in the SAME PARAGRAPH, that "surely defenses held back in case McNabb took off", then in the NEXT SENTENCE, you say, "last year there was plenty of pressure on McNabb, he was taking a butt whooping week in and week out." So my question is, how can defenses hold back AND put pressure on him? Are you talking about different seasons, or is this just one of those things where you say one thing and turn right around and say the exact opposite? Is that simple enough of a question? And don't ever talk down to me again like you did with that little "We (us grown folk)" comment...

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 10:41 PM
You say in the SAME PARAGRAPH, that "surely defenses held back in case McNabb took off", then in the NEXT SENTENCE, you say, "last year there was plenty of pressure on McNabb, he was taking a butt whooping week in and week out." So my question is, how can defenses hold back AND put pressure on him? Are you talking about different seasons, or is this just one of those things where you say one thing and turn right around and say the exact opposite? Is that simple enough of a question? And don't ever talk down to me again like you did with that little "We (us grown folk)" comment...


The.......... subject........... of ..........the .............conver........ sation..... was ....... McNabb not having..... any talent....... around him...... consistantly.... Jerek....... mentioned........ his offensive line...... I said....... per.....haps.... McNabbs....... ability........ to......scramble......and make.....big(gestures with hands).... plays........ may have..... caused..... defensive.......game..planners...... to... hold... up on....... the rush.....because.........last year......... teams.... did.... not.... respect.... his big..... play... ability, and..... pressured.... him..... for.... 4..... quarters...... McNabbs...... offensive...... line..... didn't...... look..... that.. great.... last.. year..... was... it.... because..... the.. talent... level.... suddenly... dropped, or.... did..... teams..... decide..... to.... get.... after..... him.... and.... let.... him..... make..... that..... big.... play.... every... now and then??

I contend, that they never were that good.

texan279
08-15-2006, 10:53 PM
The.......... subject........... of ..........the .............conver........ sation..... was ....... McNabb not having..... any talent....... around him...... consistantly.... Jerek....... mentioned........ his offensive line...... I said....... per.....haps.... McNabbs....... ability........ to......scramble......and make.....big(gestures with hands).... plays........ may have..... caused..... defensive.......game..planners...... to... hold... up on....... the rush.....because.........last year......... teams.... did.... not.... respect.... his big..... play... ability, and..... pressured.... him..... for.... 4..... quarters...... McNabbs...... offensive...... line..... didn't...... look..... that.. great.... last.. year..... was... it.... because..... the.. talent... level.... suddenly... dropped, or.... did..... teams..... decide..... to.... get.... after..... him.... and.... let.... him..... make..... that..... big.... play.... every... now and then??

I contend, that they never were that good.

To "hold up on the rush" means to delay or impede the rush, so how can a team "hold up the rush" while pressuring him for 4 quarters?

thunderkyss
08-15-2006, 11:15 PM
excuse me...... maybe I can clarify.

The subject of the conversation was McNabb not having any talent around him consistantly. Jerek mentioned his offensive line I said perhaps McNabbs ability to scramble and make big plays may have caused defensive game planners to hold up on the rush(every year other than last year.)

(However)last year teams did not respect his big play ability, and pressured him for 4 quarters McNabbs offensive line didn't look that great last year. was it because the talent level suddenly dropped, or did teams decide to get after him and let him make that big play every now and then??

I contend, that they never were that good.

texan279
08-15-2006, 11:17 PM
excuse me...... maybe I can clarify.

Thank you, now that makes sense.

HOOK'EM
08-28-2006, 09:27 AM
It's going to be really fun pounding him and the Tacks twice a year for the next decade!

Honoring Earl 34
08-28-2006, 09:30 AM
It's going to be really fun pounding him and the Tacs twice a year for the next decade!
I don't know who's best between Vince , Cutler and Leinart . I do know for a fact who's on the worst team . Vince ought to curse Bud everyday for not taking the local boy Cutler third and giving Vince a fighting chance .

HOOK'EM
08-28-2006, 09:36 AM
Poor Vince, I thought from the way people were talking he didn't need any help?

HOOK'EM
08-28-2006, 09:37 AM
Come on where's all the Vince love now?

HOOK'EM
08-28-2006, 09:40 AM
Where have they gone?

thunderkyss
08-28-2006, 09:50 AM
Vince'll be fine.... he's got some learning to do, like the others.

But just like McNabb, Mcnair, Steve Young, Culpepper, he'll only be fun to watch, until they put some talent around him.

Huge
08-28-2006, 11:23 AM
Poor Vince, I thought from the way people were talking he didn't need any help?

Come on where's all the Vince love now?

Where have they gone?
Why have you been so quiet on another QB (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=254223#post254223) that was in the draft?

Obviously we should all pay attention to your words of wisdom.

real
08-28-2006, 11:33 AM
Why have you been so quiet on another QB (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=254223#post254223) that was in the draft?

Obviously we should all pay attention to your words of wisdom.

You busted him.....:redtowel:

PhillyFan
08-28-2006, 02:39 PM
You should be very glad the Texans didnt take Young.

I will make a generalization here, that most people who wanted the Texans to draft young, are all about glitz and glamor.

And that is not what wins football games.

VY's college style of QB will not translate to the NFL. If he tries running freely in games in the NFL like he did in college, he will be injured very often. That...and he will fumble quite a bit.

I have a feeling that he will go through a McNabbish time in the next few years. He will try his best to be a pure pocket passer, but he will not succeed. McNabb has twice the arm strength that he has. His field awareness for receivers while in the pocket isnt the greatest.

Without the run, he wont be much of a quarterback. Im envisioning VY to turn into a slightly better Akili Smith.

thunderkyss
08-28-2006, 02:45 PM
You should be very glad the Texans didnt take Young.

I will make a generalization here, that most people who wanted the Texans to draft young, are all about glitz and glamor.

And that is not what wins football games.

VY's college style of QB will not translate to the NFL. If he tries running freely in games in the NFL like he did in college, he will be injured very often. That...and he will fumble quite a bit.

I have a feeling that he will go through a McNabbish time in the next few years. He will try his best to be a pure pocket passer, but he will not succeed. McNabb has twice the arm strength that he has. His field awareness for receivers while in the pocket isnt the greatest.

Without the run, he wont be much of a quarterback. Im envisioning VY to turn into a slightly better Akili Smith.


You know....... Sterling Sharpe kept saying JayCutler was an option QB his first 2 years at the college level. I wonder what he meant by that.

I also believe McNabb was believed to be all glitz & glamore at one time or another.

I don't think your generalization holds much water.

PhillyFan
08-28-2006, 02:53 PM
You know....... Sterling Sharpe kept saying JayCutler was an option QB his first 2 years at the college level. I wonder what he meant by that.

I also believe McNabb was believed to be all glitz & glamore at one time or another.

I don't think your generalization holds much water.


McNabb was never glitz and glamor on the same level that Vince is.

Not sure if youre aware, but McNabb had Marvin Harrison to throw to in college, so he didnt run around like a moron quite as much.

And...they are just my opinions. Im sure some people wont agree with them. Thats why theyre opinions.

axman40
08-28-2006, 03:51 PM
McNabb was never glitz and glamor on the same level that Vince is.

Not sure if youre aware, but McNabb had Marvin Harrison to throw to in college, so he didnt run around like a moron quite as much.

And...they are just my opinions. Im sure some people wont agree with them. Thats why theyre opinions.
Ran around like a moron? Ask USC about the moronic running around!
VY will be fine and yes I for one fully expect it will take 2-3 years before VY starts to put it all togather.
:ok:

Kaiser Toro
08-28-2006, 03:57 PM
I did not want Vince in a Texan uniform, but I have seen nothing to suggest that he will not realize his potential as one of the best QB's in the NFL during his tenure.

HOOK'EM
08-29-2006, 10:22 AM
Why have you been so quiet on another QB (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=254223#post254223) that was in the draft?

Obviously we should all pay attention to your words of wisdom.

you tell me?

jerek
08-29-2006, 10:28 AM
I was one of the biggest VY detractors but I will say, give the kid time. He has a lot to learn at the NFL level and I never thought he would be better than Carr (which is why I didn't want to draft him) but I think in 2-3 years time he will probably be upper echelon. I've never bought this one-of-the-best-ever schtick and all of the Vince-urinates-victory hyperbole that littered this board back before draft time, but I think he will be good and potentially great with the right coaching and team.

TexansCM
08-29-2006, 11:59 AM
Chris Mortenson mentioned on Sportscenter today, not to expect to see Vince in a starting role for 3 years. He will be in on some plays, but not a starter. Take that for what is it worth, but if he is not starting for that long, he probably will not be a top QB in the league until at least year 5 if at all.

AustinJB
08-29-2006, 12:12 PM
McNabb was never glitz and glamor on the same level that Vince is.

Not sure if youre aware, but McNabb had Marvin Harrison to throw to in college, so he didnt run around like a moron quite as much.

And...they are just my opinions. Im sure some people wont agree with them. Thats why theyre opinions.

Oh c'mon...McNabb ran an option offense in college. Don't tell me he didn't run around a lot. Not like you have much room to criticize...I'm sure you were on of the ones that was booing when your Eagles took him anyway and it looks like it turned out okay, right?

I've tried to stay out of threads like this ever since the "Great MB Draft Debate of 2006" but people that judge too quickly keep annoying me to no end. I'm trying to support Carr b/c the Texans are my team and the draft is OVER!! But it's threads like this that cause me to wonder what some people are seeing out there?

IMO, there is not a very vast difference in production and/or decision making from this "young rookie that makes bad decisions, weak arm, will never make it in the NFL, all glitz and glamour, runs too much, low IQ" QB from a certain "5 year veterean who has all the tools to suceed, can make every throw, very smart and mature" QB. JMO...and I realize it's just preseason people...that's my point...don't judge too soon.

Oh well, this is what I was trying to avoid, but there it is anyway. Blast away if you feel the need.:hides:

AustinJB
08-29-2006, 12:14 PM
Chris Mortenson mentioned on Sportscenter today, not to expect to see Vince in a starting role for 3 years. He will be in on some plays, but not a starter. Take that for what is it worth, but if he is not starting for that long, he probably will not be a top QB in the league until at least year 5 if at all.

LMAO..:) .....we've had to wait at least that long for our QB too haven't we??:confused:

TexansCM
08-29-2006, 12:39 PM
LMAO..:) .....we've had to wait at least that long for our QB too haven't we??:confused:

I'm just stating what I heard. If Vince takes 5 years to be a top tier quarterback that really doesn't help the Texans needs now does it. Carr is in his 5th year and if he doesn't excel or at least show progress, I think a move will be made to get a top quarterback in the league or a guy that has been a really promising backup like a Matt Schaub. Sage will be a career backup QB in my opinion, so if it is not Carr, it won't be Sage and if we would have taken a shot on Vince the Texans would be in year 8 of the franchise without a QB.

jerek
08-29-2006, 01:03 PM
See how laughable 3 years sounds? Kina ironic that Texan fans are making fun of a guy that will take some time to mature into a viable productive QB. We are on year 5 here.

Ironic yes but the primary difference is that the Titans didn't draft VY with hindsight knowledge that their coaching staff would all but sabotage their top pick for the first four years of his career. Nobody drafts looking forward intending to run an offense so hopelessly malformed so as to render judgment of a player's ability as difficult to determine as have [some people at least] decided is the case for Carr.

I know we're three weeks into the preseason and Carr arguably should look better at this point than he has, but I'm content to give it a little while (a month into the regular season, at least) before pronouncing the guy DOA.

In any event, as previously stated, I was one of VY's biggest detractors when everyone else was kissing is inevitably HOFer feet, but I've always said he will take 2-3 years to develop. It's pure speculation of course, but had Carr come into Kubiak's offense from year 1, I don't think he would have required near the prep time of VY.

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 01:52 PM
Ironic yes but the primary difference is that the Titans didn't draft VY with hindsight knowledge that their coaching staff would all but sabotage their top pick for the first four years of his career. Nobody drafts looking forward intending to run an offense so hopelessly malformed so as to render judgment of a player's ability as difficult to determine as have [some people at least] decided is the case for Carr.

I know we're three weeks into the preseason and Carr arguably should look better at this point than he has, but I'm content to give it a little while (a month into the regular season, at least) before pronouncing the guy DOA.

In any event, as previously stated, I was one of VY's biggest detractors when everyone else was kissing is inevitably HOFer feet, but I've always said he will take 2-3 years to develop. It's pure speculation of course, but had Carr come into Kubiak's offense from year 1, I don't think he would have required near the prep time of VY.


2002, and 2003......... I still contend our offense was much more sophisticated than what we've seen in 2004, & 2005. Maybe it just seemed that way, since David didn't have a problem looking down the field back in those days.

We seem to have simplified the offense since then. & I'm not insinuating anything more than what you think I am insinuating(if you think I'm insinuating anything)..... but if we see Kubiak come up with some simple plays to jump start David Carr....... then I don't know what to say.

As far as Vince goes....... if he can hang the moon in one game, I have no doubt he'll be starting before the 2006 season is over.

Titan "Tack" Fan
08-29-2006, 02:00 PM
I <3 Vince

awtysst
08-29-2006, 02:19 PM
See how laughable 3 years sounds? Kina ironic that Texan fans are making fun of a guy that will take some time to mature into a viable productive QB. We are on year 5 here.


Once again Vinny, I could not agree more with you.

Texans86
08-29-2006, 02:40 PM
Ouch....here's a pretty rough article concerning Young from CBS sportsline.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9626003

"Vince Young won't make it as an NFL quarterback -- at least, not as a star NFL quarterback. And in time that is how he will be judged."

TexansLucky13
08-29-2006, 02:47 PM
I <3 Vince

Vince Young is the only man alive who can divide by zero. He once tried to teach us how, but our minds were so primitive that he just shrugged and began to lift vehicles in the parking lot as a workout.

He also knows how many licks it takes to get to the center of a tootsie roll pop. When asked, he only responded....

Trust me, it isn't three.

Huge
08-29-2006, 03:50 PM
you tell me?
You want me to tell you why you've been so quiet lately about how you wanted Marcus Vick to be the QB in Houston? Oh, I don't know...because when you came to the understanding that it'd be a pretty dumb idea after he went undrafted and could only land an UDFA contract with the Dolphins as a QB/WR/ST, you figured it'd be best to lay low on those comments.

But now you totally see the light in regards to Vince Young. Because as history has shown, you're a great prognasticator of things to come in the rookie QB department.

Am I close?

Double Barrel
08-29-2006, 04:52 PM
See how laughable 3 years sounds? Kina ironic that Texan fans are making fun of a guy that will take some time to mature into a viable productive QB. We are on year 5 here.

I'd take a 5 year veteran Young over a 5 year veteran Carr any day, even having no idea how Young will do in the NFL at this point.

I'm not a Carr hater by any means, but it's looking like we'll be lucky to get a Trent Dilfer-type QB right now. (hey, Dilfer has a ring, so he's not all bad)

HOOK'EM
08-29-2006, 07:20 PM
You want me to tell you why you've been so quiet lately about how you wanted Marcus Vick to be the QB in Houston? Oh, I don't know...because when you came to the understanding that it'd be a pretty dumb idea after he went undrafted and could only land an UDFA contract with the Dolphins as a QB/WR/ST, you figured it'd be best to lay low on those comments.

But now you totally see the light in regards to Vince Young. Because as history has shown, you're a great prognasticator of things to come in the rookie QB department.

Am I close?

As I said before and will say agian, Marcus Vick will have a better career the your Vince Young. Just think Vick's about to get cut from the Dolphins, so what am I saying about your Vince Young............. You figure it out?:fortune:

HOOK'EM
08-29-2006, 07:41 PM
Oh Huge if your such a Cryboy & Tack fan, then what are you doing on this board?


Thats 3 of our wins this year!

Huge
08-29-2006, 09:58 PM
As I said before and will say agian, Marcus Vick will have a better career the your Vince Young. Just think Vick's about to get cut from the Dolphins, so what am I saying about your Vince Young............. You figure it out?:fortune:
Trying to figure out what you're saying is not as easy as you might think.

If I took a shot in the dark, I'd say you're implying that we can expect Young to be cut from the Titans' roster sometime in the very near future because that is the same fate as Marcus Vick with the Dolphins. 'Cause as you've stated, Vick will have a better career than Young. And since Vick's about to be released...

Am I even in the right area code?

Oh Huge if your such a Cryboy & Tack fan, then what are you doing on this board?


Thats 3 of our wins this year!
A. I'm not a Titans fan. But I am a fan of Vince Young, Bo Scaife and Ahmard Hall (former Longhorns/current Titans).
B. Where does your handle "HOOK'EM" come from?
C. Something about eggs hatching and counting.
D. Those important enough to know already know why I'm here.

Kaiser Toro
08-29-2006, 10:14 PM
See how laughable 3 years sounds? Kina ironic that Texan fans are making fun of a guy that will take some time to mature into a viable productive QB. We are on year 5 here.

Zing, zap, zoom. A Zerrific Zinger Zinny. :sleep:

Alanis Morisette is dancing somewhere.......horribly.

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 10:21 PM
See how laughable 3 years sounds? Kina ironic that Texan fans are making fun of a guy that will take some time to mature into a viable productive QB. We are on year 5 here.


We want to win in '06..... & '07. We don't want to wait until '08. What am I missing here??

Do you believe we can't win games with David Carr?? Are you saying we won't make the playoffs by '07??

Are you saying Vince would've got us to the playoffs by '07??

texan279
08-29-2006, 10:24 PM
sometimes I can't figure out how you go about connecting your dots.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Vinny again.

:chicken:

thunderkyss
08-29-2006, 10:32 PM
sometimes I can't figure out how you go about connecting your dots.

The Homers don't care that it'll take David another year to develop. In their minds, they know it'll take at least one year, but no more than 2. They for some reason don't mind waiting 2 years to get to the playoffs. or even to have a winning season.

But they don't want to wait 3 years from now.

they don't mind waiting 5 years from 2002, but don't want to wait 3 years from today.

:chicken:

I seriously doubt you understand what Vinny is saying.

texan279
08-29-2006, 10:35 PM
The Homers don't care that it'll take David another year to develop. In their minds, they know it'll take at least one year, but no more than 2. They for some reason don't mind waiting 2 years to get to the playoffs. or even to have a winning season.

But they don't want to wait 3 years from now.

they don't mind waiting 5 years from 2002, but don't want to wait 3 years from today.



I seriously doubt you understand what Vinny is saying.

I can assure you I do...

infantrycak
08-30-2006, 04:52 AM
they don't mind waiting 5 years from 2002, but don't want to wait 3 years from today.

I'd say the vast majority of folks minded but 4 of them are burnt and can't be reclaimed--the question is one of going forward.

JMO, but I find it odd virtually no one was interested in Culpepper who without a doubt would have given us the most immediate chance to win over Carr or any of the rookie QB's.

thunderkyss
08-30-2006, 06:29 AM
I'd say the vast majority of folks minded but 4 of them are burnt and can't be reclaimed--the question is one of going forward.

JMO, but I find it odd virtually no one was interested in Culpepper who without a doubt would have given us the most immediate chance to win over Carr or any of the rookie QB's.

you'd have to define "virtually no one" as his name was brought up, which started the Culpepper bashing around here. He wasn't as popular an option on this MB as Vince Young was.......... but that should be expected.

HOOK'EM
08-30-2006, 06:31 AM
Trying to figure out what you're saying is not as easy as you might think.

If I took a shot in the dark, I'd say you're implying that we can expect Young to be cut from the Titans' roster sometime in the very near future because that is the same fate as Marcus Vick with the Dolphins. 'Cause as you've stated, Vick will have a better career than Young. And since Vick's about to be released...

Am I even in the right area code?


A. I'm not a Titans fan. But I am a fan of Vince Young, Bo Scaife and Ahmard Hall (former Longhorns/current Titans).
B. Where does your handle "HOOK'EM" come from?
C. Something about eggs hatching and counting.
D. Those important enough to know already know why I'm here.

You know what I'm talking about.

A. Vince Young will be a bust.
B. He will never run the option.
C. Cryboys Suck!
D. If you pulled up my history to find out about Vick, then you saw my explanation for HOOK'EM. (If you can't figure it out, thats on you)

TreWardTxn
08-30-2006, 10:04 AM
you'd have to define "virtually no one" as his name was brought up, which started the Culpepper bashing around here. He wasn't as popular an option on this MB as Vince Young was.......... but that should be expected.

Culpepper would have costed us Demeco Ryans, and I'm already pretty sure that wouldn't be a good trade-off for the Texans, even this early...

infantrycak
08-30-2006, 10:35 AM
Culpepper would have costed us Demeco Ryans, and I'm already pretty sure that wouldn't be a good trade-off for the Texans, even this early...

If David Carr doesn't work out our offense doesn't go--as much as I love Ryans so far that is a bigger problem than finding a MLB--could've even picked up Brooks in the supp draft.

NJ Texan
08-30-2006, 10:44 AM
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9626003

Check it out.

TNTitan
08-30-2006, 11:01 AM
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9626003

Check it out.


the guy also said he liked Ryan Leaf as well

TexansLucky13
08-30-2006, 11:20 AM
If David Carr doesn't work out our offense doesn't go--as much as I love Ryans so far that is a bigger problem than finding a MLB--could've even picked up Brooks in the supp draft.

Sage? Anyone?

Brooks eh? I think it's time for your nap, cak. :rolleyes:

infantrycak
08-30-2006, 11:29 AM
Sage? Anyone?

There is zero, zilch in the way of competition between Sage and someone of Culpepper's ability.

Brooks eh? I think it's time for your nap, cak. :rolleyes:

What point are you trying to make?

TexansLucky13
08-30-2006, 11:32 AM
There is zero, zilch in the way of competition between Sage and someone of Culpepper's ability.

Sage + Ryans > Coldpepper

What point are you trying to make?

I thought I made that quite clear.

:sleep:

infantrycak
08-30-2006, 11:34 AM
I thought I made that quite clear.

:sleep:

The only thing clear is juvenile behavior.

RiotCommander
08-30-2006, 11:35 AM
I think anyone who saw Vince Young play with an objective eye knew he was a few years away. Physcially he is ready, but his reads need a lot of work. Anyone who thought he was just going to step on the field and change the NFL by doing so was living in a little word I like to call "The land of the over-hyped NFL Draft picks".

If he works out he could have us dreading to play the Titans for years to come. I for one hope he is not a bust, but as bad as the Titans look this year, I wonder why Bud Adams decided not go with a "safer" pick.


Anyway thats my :twocents:

Huge
08-30-2006, 12:02 PM
You know what I'm talking about.

A. Vince Young will be a bust.
B. He will never run the option.
C. Cryboys Suck!
D. If you pulled up my history to find out about Vick, then you saw my explanation for HOOK'EM. (If you can't figure it out, thats on you)
A. Even if he is a bust, wouldn't that still make for a better career than being cut before the season starts?

B. Um, and? Even if you are right, why would it matter if he never runs the option?

C. Relevant to the discussion, how? Or did you just feel the urge to expose your insecurities?

D. These are the following posts you made on Vick thread...

Why waste a #1 on VY, when you have a star in BUSH? We could always take Marcus Vick in the 4th to compete with Carr. Tha real "NEXT VICK" will end up haveing a better career than VY anyways!
#5 BUSH & #5 VICK
Without a doubt, YOU (Super Mario) better ask somebody.
And apparently, somewhere in those comments is an explanation for your handle.

I guess it's on me then 'cause I got nothing.

texan279
08-30-2006, 12:05 PM
Sage + Ryans > Coldpepper



I thought I made that quite clear.

:sleep:

Is this sarcasm? A QB who has started 3 games in his career and a rookie MLB over a proven above average talent at QB? What is going on around here today?

texan279
08-30-2006, 12:10 PM
something in the air...the spin today is out of control

I don't know about you but I think I have lost about 20 IQ points today. Anyway back on track. In reference to the article posted, it is a little early, well very early, to call Young a lousy pro prospect. The guy plays on a lousy team and has lousy receivers to throw to. At least give him some good, not great receivers and playing time in a regular season game before people start calling him a bust jeez.

infantrycak
08-30-2006, 12:17 PM
At least give him some good, not great receivers and playing time in a regular season game before people start calling him a bust jeez.

The article is silly and so is judging VY this early.

That said, IMO you aren't giving his targets enough credit--Deion Branch, Drew Bennett, Ben Troupe and Bo Scaife are some pretty good guys to throw to--there have been some drop problems but haven't they mainly come from 2nd and 3rd stringers? VY had some accuracy problems at the start of a game the other day but then he pulled it together and was performing fine--I do think he needs to protect the ball a little better, but he will get that.

texan279
08-30-2006, 12:20 PM
The article is silly and so is judging VY this early.

That said, IMO you aren't giving his targets enough credit--Deion Branch, Drew Bennett, Ben Troupe and Bo Scaife are some pretty good guys to throw to--there have been some drop problems but haven't they mainly come from 2nd and 3rd stringers? VY had some accuracy problems at the start of a game the other day but then he pulled it together and was performing fine--I do think he needs to protect the ball a little better, but he will get that.

I forgot about the addition of Branch and Troupe being there. The other WR's, eh.

infantrycak
08-30-2006, 12:23 PM
I forgot about the addition of Branch and Troupe being there. The other WR's, eh.

Drew Bennett is an oddity. When McNair is in the game he is rarely found. When Volek came in and was airing out to him he put up 1200+ yds and 11 TD's.

Huge
08-30-2006, 12:24 PM
I must've been napping. When did Branch join the Titans?

thunderkyss
08-30-2006, 12:25 PM
Is this sarcasm? A QB who has started 3 games in his career and a rookie MLB over a proven above average talent at QB? What is going on around here today?

I agree with 279 on this one........ QBs like Culpepper are a rare commodity.

infantrycak
08-30-2006, 12:26 PM
I must've been napping. When did Branch join the Titans?

I'm sorry--David Givens--the other Pats WR.

thunderkyss
08-30-2006, 12:27 PM
The article is silly and so is judging VY this early.

That said, IMO you aren't giving his targets enough credit--Deion Branch, Drew Bennett, Ben Troupe and Bo Scaife are some pretty good guys to throw to--there have been some drop problems but haven't they mainly come from 2nd and 3rd stringers? VY had some accuracy problems at the start of a game the other day but then he pulled it together and was performing fine--I do think he needs to protect the ball a little better, but he will get that.

I honestly haven't watched any TT games...... has Vince been throwing to Givens & Bennette??

Huge
08-30-2006, 12:27 PM
Okay, had I been smart enough, I probably would've figured you meant Givens. I knew the Patriots had given Branch to seek a trade and though the Titans pulled one to get him.

But yeah, Givens is a pretty solid WR. He won't threaten anybody's #1 position (unless there isn't a #1...like in Tennessee), but he'll make do.

real
08-30-2006, 12:32 PM
I honestly haven't watched any TT games...... has Vince been throwing to Givens & Bennette??

no...not in any of the games i've seen...

RiotCommander
08-30-2006, 12:38 PM
I saw him play and I don't think he is "years" away from anything. If he had some WR's that would hang on to his TD passes his stats would not look like they do. I thought he outplayed Volek and that he looked accurate so far in the preseason. I think he needs some time but most of the stuff I see is ridiculous imo.

I just find it amazing that this crowd gives David Carr 5 years but Vince Young gets zero NFL snaps in the regular season before people draw conclusions. Amazing use of logic.


To me its not about being accurate. I didn't say he couldn't make the throws. Its the reads that I'm talking about. Its my understanding that at UT all of his throws were decided before he ever snapped the ball. Maybe he is a very fast learner, but I think its going to take him a while to read the defense, and know where he should go with the ball.


That said I don't see why he isn't starting. Maybe the Titans have more wins in them then it appears, but if I was going to have a losing season anyway I would give VY as many snaps as he can get.

HOOK'EM
08-30-2006, 12:45 PM
[QUOTE=NJ Texan]http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9626003

Nice twist "Huge", how you like this article?

Huge
08-30-2006, 12:50 PM
[QUOTE=NJ Texan]http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9626003

Nice twist "Huge", how you like this article?
"Twist"? Is that your way of dodging questions?

And yeah, I saw that article in the other thread (as well as this one). And as it was stated in the article (and the other thread), the author preferred Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning.

Leaf over Manning. That's about as stupid as Marcus Vick over Vince Young.

Oh wait...

texan279
08-31-2006, 08:31 AM
Young is getting ripped on Mike and Mike in the Morning right now...

real
08-31-2006, 09:16 AM
Young is getting ripped on Mike and Mike in the Morning right now...

What are they saying ? And I thought Golich(sp) liked VY...

Brandon420tx
08-31-2006, 01:07 PM
"Twist"? Is that your way of dodging questions?

And yeah, I saw that article in the other thread (as well as this one). And as it was stated in the article (and the other thread), the author preferred Ryan Leaf over Peyton Manning.

Leaf over Manning. That's about as stupid as Marcus Vick over Vince Young.

Oh wait...

:heh:

texan279
08-31-2006, 01:13 PM
What are they saying ? And I thought Golich(sp) liked VY...

It wasn't Golic and Greenie, it was two other clowns, the one guy is on ther eall the time when greenie or Golic is out, the other guy I have no clue. I can't remember exact details now, but I think I remember them talking about his accuracy, and a few other things, cannot remember exactly now.

texan279
09-02-2006, 02:33 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=260901009

GREEN BAY, Wis. (AP) -- A sure sign of poise from a rookie quarterback: Vince Young even lobbies for instant-replay calls like a veteran.

Young was impressive in his first exhibition start for the Tennessee Titans, consistently turning third downs into first downs in a 35-21 victory over the Green Bay Packers on Friday afternoon.

Young's lone touchdown pass came on a successful replay challenge by the Titans in the first quarter, but Young had an apparent touchdown called back on a replay challenge by the Packers in the third quarter.

"That was a touchdown as well," Young said. "They just robbed me."

Young played the Titans' first three series and returned for much of the third quarter of the two teams' exhibition finale, completing 8-of-17 passes for 80 yards and a touchdown.

"I pretty much knew that I was going to feel a little more comfortable this week as well," Young said. "So I wanted to keep the chains moving on third down, and (score) when I'm in the ball game."

And move the chains he did. The third overall pick in the draft went 5-for-6 on third down for four first-down conversions and a 16-yard touchdown pass to Bobby Wade in the first quarter.

Titan "Tack" Fan
09-02-2006, 04:00 AM
Vince looked real good on Friday. Scary good for a rookie. He made some overthrows but didn't make any mistakes and came up big on 3rd downs. It was nice to see.

The Dream
09-02-2006, 02:24 PM
I didn't see the game but I saw the highlights.......Vince made a pretty throw for his lone touchdown....hopefully he keeps it up.

thunderkyss
09-02-2006, 05:42 PM
Wow Vinny......... looks like not all the cheeseheads were behind the A.J. Hawk pick. I would've thought they'd have been happy with Hawk.

chuckm
09-02-2006, 06:10 PM
Wow Vinny......... looks like not all the cheeseheads were behind the A.J. Hawk pick. I would've thought they'd have been happy with Hawk.

Thunderkyss, I served with Vince Young, I knew Vince Young, Vince Young was a friend of mine. AJ Hawk, you are no Vince Young.....

GuerillaBlack
09-02-2006, 06:37 PM
Thunderkyss, I served with Vince Young, I knew Vince Young, Vince Young was a friend of mine. AJ Hawk, you are no Vince Young.

So far, I haven't seen what AJ Hawk can do. Ryans has done better than him so far.

CloakNNNdagger
09-02-2006, 07:32 PM
I did not see the Titans game and Young. Sounds like he may have had a few highlight moments. For what it's worth, 610 Radio just a little while ago reported hat the Tacks got Kerry Collins because they were convinced the Volek wasn't going to make a significant improvement to this year's record and Young was far from ready to take over. They stated that their inside sources related that the coaches were VERY skittish about putting Young into regular season games at this time based on, among other things, young has been intercepted 14 times in training camp.

HOOK'EM
09-04-2006, 08:21 AM
So when its all said and done this season there will be nothing to talk about because he will be riding the pine.