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swtbound07
08-13-2006, 02:40 AM
For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.

wicked_wayz
08-13-2006, 02:48 AM
For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.

carr had to deal with surtain and ty law......pro bowl corners

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 02:50 AM
carr had to deal with surtain and ty law......pro bowl corners

excuses, party of one, excuses.......

TexansLucky13
08-13-2006, 02:51 AM
Mr. SWTBound.... I believe you underestimate the mere lack of depth in the Chiefs secondary. I agree that Rosenfels looked most excellent, but against Surtain and Law? Not a chance.

Besides, Carr didn't look nervous at all. Were you even watching? I was there, and trust me.... he wasn't at all nervous. I was more nervous than he was. He made ONE bad throw, which was thankfully broken up by AJ.

Jeez, way to go talking smack so early in the mornin! Haha. You are wrong about Carr, but I agree with you about Rosenfels.... he deserves a starting position. Carr just deserves it more at the moment. If Carr starts to slip (which he wont), I am all for letting Sage start. I have always like him.

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 02:53 AM
Mr. SWTBound.... I believe you underestimate the mere lack of depth in the Chiefs secondary. I agree that Rosenfels looked most excellent, but against Surtain and Law? Not a chance.

Besides, Carr didn't look nervous at all. Were you even watching? I was there, and trust me.... he wasn't at all nervous. I was more nervous than he was. He made ONE bad throw, which was thankfully broken up by AJ.

Jeez, way to go talking smack so early in the mornin! Haha. You are wrong about Carr, but I agree with you about Rosenfels.... he deserves a starting position. Carr just deserves it more at the moment. If Carr starts to slip (which he wont), I am all for letting Sage start. I have always like him.

read the gameday thread...he should have been picked off at LEAST twice...Carr doesn't deserve squat.

pskinny
08-13-2006, 02:54 AM
For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.

Wow, a little sour over VY are we still? Carr had the ball for two possesions, The first one, he made two nice throws, and then the inability of A. Smith on two consecetive runs to pick up 1 yard left us punting.

On the second possesion, he made 1 bad throw that should have been picked off, another that was barely tipped or it goes for a 50 yard TD to AJ, and a fumble that he recovers and picks up the 1st on 4th and 1. Other than that, he makes some decent runs, and leads the team down the field for the first score of the game. He looked fine to me. Stopped wishing the guy to fail please.

AustinJB
08-13-2006, 02:54 AM
carr had to deal with surtain and ty law......pro bowl corners

I realize that Carr was playing against the 1st team defense and Sage was not...but I do have to say that I was very impressed w/ Sage. He showed poise and never seemed to be rattled; something I have yet to see from Carr. Carr did play decent though; just seemed to be a little nervous i.e. sailing the ball, indecisiveness.

BradK10
08-13-2006, 02:54 AM
For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.

Yes, you still seem ridiculous. Quit goin' out of your way to be such a damned potbanger.

If Sage Rosenfels is our starting QB, expect another top 3 draft pick. I love this time of year when folks start proclaiming exhibition game heroes as the saviors of our team.

TexanSam
08-13-2006, 02:55 AM
Well Carr was in the game for one quarter against the Chiefs first string defense. Rosenfels was in the game in the 2nd and 3rd quarter against the Chiefs 2nd and 3rd string defense. I don't know if Rosenfels would have had the same success against the Chiefs if he were starting in place of Carr. I do think Carr would have had better success if he were facing the Chiefs 2nd and 3rd string defense though.

HJam72
08-13-2006, 02:55 AM
Yes, you still seem rediculous. :tease: It doesn't matter who starts. It's preseason. :tease:


I haven't even seen any of it, so don't get all stupid and start taking me seriously. Maybe Carr does need to watch somebody else start for a change. I'm just glad we won the sack ratio 5 to zip. That's what matters to me.

wicked_wayz
08-13-2006, 02:56 AM
excuses, party of one, excuses.......

it ant excuses .....i too thought sage had a good game but seriously how do you think sage will go against surtain and ty law???????

TexansLucky13
08-13-2006, 02:57 AM
read the gameday thread...he should have been picked off at LEAST twice...Carr doesn't deserve squat.

Read the thread... why? I was there. I saw all of his plays. Besides, I already read that, ahaha. The other play that they are referring to wasn't going to be picked, trust me.

You will not win this, SWTBound. Carr did not play like a chump. Kubiak will have some words for him, yes. But this kid played fine for his own part.

Just let it go, bro! You won't win unless Carr really does suck this year, which he won't. But if he does... you will have been correct. But tonight you are wrong. I have been waiting to argue this with you since I left the game tonight. I knew you would bring it up.

pskinny
08-13-2006, 02:58 AM
read the gameday thread...he should have been picked off at LEAST twice...Carr doesn't deserve squat.

Did you watch the game or just read the gameday thread? One bad throw, the other was tipped. AJ was open.

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 03:00 AM
I watched the game.

HJam72
08-13-2006, 03:01 AM
I watched the game.

Lucky jerk! :brickwall

Master Po
08-13-2006, 03:02 AM
For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.

I really hope that SWT doesn't have internet access.

TexansLucky13
08-13-2006, 03:02 AM
Lucky jerk! :brickwall

You missed one of the most important games of the Texans franchise history, Jam! I can't believe it! :crying:

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 03:05 AM
I really hope that SWT doesn't have internet access.


been there and came back.......07 was my anticipated graduation date friend.

HJam72
08-13-2006, 03:05 AM
You missed one of the most important games of the Texans franchise history, Jam! I can't believe it! :crying:

Ya know, I really don't even blame the TV stations. I blame the idiots who always decide to have the Cowboys and Texans play at the same time. That should NEVER happen, unless they're playing each other. Then, they'd both get televised--well, usually.

edit: Notice, it says "idiots". :)

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 03:08 AM
Again i say...somebody sit here and tell me Sage had a worse game then Carr.

HJam72
08-13-2006, 03:12 AM
Again i say...somebody sit here and tell me Sage had a worse game then Carr.

Sage had a worse game than Carr. :rolleyes:

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 03:12 AM
Sage had a worse game than Carr. :rolleyes:


and you know you don't believe it anymore than I would. Its not a claim you can make seriously.

Master Po
08-13-2006, 03:13 AM
been there and came back.......07 was my anticipated graduation date friend.

Sorry to hear it. GL.

thunderkyss
08-13-2006, 03:15 AM
Mr. SWTBound.... I believe you underestimate the mere lack of depth in the Chiefs secondary. I agree that Rosenfels looked most excellent, but against Surtain and Law? Not a chance.

Besides, Carr didn't look nervous at all. Were you even watching? I was there, and trust me.... he wasn't at all nervous. I was more nervous than he was. He made ONE bad throw, which was thankfully broken up by AJ.

Jeez, way to go talking smack so early in the mornin! Haha. You are wrong about Carr, but I agree with you about Rosenfels.... he deserves a starting position. Carr just deserves it more at the moment. If Carr starts to slip (which he wont), I am all for letting Sage start. I have always like him.

I only watched bits and pieces on NFL Networks No Huddle, so I won't be calling for Carr's numbers. But I will say what I did see, I can understand where swt is coming from. I did see David lock onto one guy on one play. But overall, I am happy with his play...... his composure wasn't that bad, I don't think, but swt isn't the only one who saw some nervousness....... even some Carr supporters commented on it....

But, the whole point of starting Carr in the Preseason, is to work him in game situations with our starters, against their starters..... If Sage doesn't win the job in practice, then he's just going to have to wait his turn......

jerek
08-13-2006, 03:16 AM
excuses, party of one, excuses.......

In this case a.k.a. "context" or "perspective." And I didn't think that Carr was as bad nor Rosenfels as good as you indicate. Rosenfels is a very worthy backup and if Carr plays badly enough, he should get the starting nod. Carr always starts out jittery and I hope and think he will improve rapidly.

HJam72
08-13-2006, 03:16 AM
and you know you don't believe it anymore than I would. Its not a claim you can make seriously.

Nope, but I'm not convinced yet either. What I'm hearing is Carr did OK with the first team and against the first team, and Sage did better with the second team against the second team. It's the first preseason game, it's the first game under Kubiak, and, shoot, I didn't even see it. :)

My almost first impression is that you're jumping the gun. You need to almost, sort of be more patient. :tease:

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 03:17 AM
In this case a.k.a. "context" or "perspective." And I didn't think that Carr was as bad nor Rosenfels as good as you indicate. Rosenfels is a very worthy backup and if Carr plays badly enough, he should get the starting nod. Carr always starts out jittery and I hope and think he will improve rapidly.


So my question is....how perfect does sage have to play versus how poorly does carr have to play for him to lose his job? Because I think tonight showed that is what should happen....and i've been saying it for weeks now.

HJam72
08-13-2006, 03:20 AM
So my question is....how perfect does sage have to play versus how poorly does carr have to play for him to lose his job? Because I think tonight showed that is what should happen....and i've been saying it for weeks now.

Some of that is how long and some of it is how much, but I will say that the stairing-down-one-receiver thing really bothers me. I thought he was doing that last year because nobody else was ever getting open anyway. That has to stop or his talent is useless. I'm sure Kubiak will tell him something similar.

tulexan
08-13-2006, 03:21 AM
Again i say...somebody sit here and tell me Sage had a worse game then Carr.

Is 10-18 for 78 yards against the 2nd and 3rd string defense really that great?

You are making it sound like he was 15-18 for 200 yards and 3 touchdowns.

He averaged 4.33 yards per attempt, Carr threw 5 passes and averaged 4.6 yards per attempt. Not great, but it was only 5 passes.

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 03:23 AM
hit lundy in the hands and had them dropped twice, and i felt like he looked better and made better decisions. Carr looked like garbage

jerek
08-13-2006, 03:26 AM
So my question is....how perfect does sage have to play versus how poorly does carr have to play for him to lose his job? Because I think tonight showed that is what should happen....and i've been saying it for weeks now.

To answer your question, you do seem ridiculous. Very, very ridiculous. Carr threw one bad ball and had another one tipped on a very athletic play by the DB, completed the rest of his passes and spent the rest of the game on the sideline with the rest of the starters. How is that supposed to provide a meaningful comparison, much less one that would suggest the disparity you are trying to demonstrate?

I suppose if you are going to compare stat lines for the play of one player/unit to the next, then Cochran, TJ, Kalu, and Peek should start over Mario, Weaver, Payne, and Babin. Why not Derrick Armstrong (multiple catches) over Andre Johnson (no catches?) Curtis for his 1 INT over our other DBs? This is not night/day, it's not black/white, it is a mighty fine shade of gray and you're just being silly about it if you want to pretend like it matters much at this point.

Stuff your Carr rants for at least another week or two. Between you carrying on about Carr and ESPN riding Reggie Bush's jock all the way into the Hall of Fame ... yeesh ...

dtran04
08-13-2006, 03:27 AM
Dave Ragone looked pretty good last year too. He's a top of the line QB right?

thunderkyss
08-13-2006, 03:32 AM
To put it into perspective........


Aaron Rogers had a better game than Brett Farve....... Cutler had a better game than Plummer....... & Gerard(who really should be starting somewhere) had a better game than Leftwich..... but none of them are challenging for the starting job this year.

dtran04
08-13-2006, 03:34 AM
Hell, both Schaub and DJ Shockley looked better than Vick the other day. What does that mean? Absolutely squat.

thunderkyss
08-13-2006, 03:35 AM
Dave Ragone looked pretty good last year too. He's a top of the line QB right?

You say that like he's a bum...... we never gave him a chance to play.....

he might be the next Flutie, or Delhomme, or Brady for all we know...

jerek
08-13-2006, 03:36 AM
Hell, both Schaub and DJ Shockley looked better than Vick the other day. What does that mean? Absolutely squat.

The Chiefs backup QB looked a lot better than Trent Green. Trent better go to sleep scared tonight. Very scared.

thunderkyss
08-13-2006, 03:37 AM
Hell, both Schaub and DJ Shockley looked better than Vick the other day. What does that mean? Absolutely squat.

In your dreams......... no doubt, Shaub looked good. but I wouldn't start him over Vick............. and I'm not a Vick fan.

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 03:42 AM
the difference in all those examples is that they are good quarterbacks, and Carr is merely a lousy quarterback labeled with "potential".

I find it ironic the same people that think a good lundy showing might secure him a spot over DD refuse to consider the same happening to Carr.

thunderkyss
08-13-2006, 03:50 AM
the difference in all those examples is that they are good quarterbacks, and Carr is merely a lousy quarterback labeled with "potential".

I find it ironic the same people that think a good lundy showing might secure him a spot over DD refuse to consider the same happening to Carr.

not only that, but they've already moved Lundy up the depth chart, and moved Antowain (who played against the first team defense)to the waiver list.

but Charlie Whitehurst, so far, is looking better than Phillip Rivers.....

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 03:56 AM
not only that, but they've already moved Lundy up the depth chart, and moved Antowain (who played against the first team defense)to the waiver list.

but Charlie Whitehurst, so far, is looking better than Phillip Rivers.....

shrugs...lundy is a hero, and carr has immunity. What do you want from me?

HJam72
08-13-2006, 04:32 AM
You're right, Sage is the better QB, but I just don't see any "potential" there. :tease:

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 04:33 AM
You're right, Sage is the better QB, but I just don't see any "potential" there. :tease:

all i needed to see. QED

Maddict5
08-13-2006, 04:36 AM
For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.

i agree...and i think we should start schifino over aj...and out
r whole 2nd string d-line:rolleyes: ....uggghh great logic there:brickwall

mancunian
08-13-2006, 04:51 AM
David Carr has had 4 seasons of being flattened. His confidence in the Oline will take time to repair, but not being sacked against the Chiefs is a good start.

HJam72
08-13-2006, 04:53 AM
Yeah, way to go David, superstar, not getting sacked! :redtowel:

mancunian
08-13-2006, 04:55 AM
Yeah, way to go David, superstar, not getting sacked! :redtowel:

so when was the last time we could say that he hadn't been sacked in a game...(and I know some smart arse will mentioned one of the games he didn't play because of injury.):)

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 04:56 AM
so when was the last time we could say that he hadn't been sacked in a game...(and I know some smart arse will mentioned one of the games he didn't play because of injury.):)

sir he played ONE quarter...if thats all it takes to build his confidence, he's had several sack-free quarters.

HJam72
08-13-2006, 04:58 AM
At least he didn't sack himself....I don't think. :confused:

edit: This just in (by smart arse--that's me :) )David has never been sacked in a game that he didn't play in because of injury.

mancunian
08-13-2006, 05:02 AM
At least he didn't sack himself....I don't think.

edit: This just in (by smart arse--that's me :) )David has never been sacked in a game that he didn't play in because of injury.:yahoo: :) :banana:

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 05:13 AM
At least he didn't sack himself....I don't think. :confused:

edit: This just in (by smart arse--that's me :) )David has never been sacked in a game that he didn't play in because of injury.


give him time sir...he can find a way

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 05:16 AM
]']:tease:


You can whine about Carr but he will start for us. The reasons are very valid that Surtain and Law were not there against Fels. Anyways.....

Kubes has faith in Carr, I'll support Carr till Kubes benches him.


Cant believe some fans wants Rosenfels over a Kubiak Molded Carr. No even patience showed here. Moment Carr made a bad ass people are on him.

I welcome all opinions!


why don't you want a kubiak molded rosenfels?

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 05:18 AM
]']Kubes will decide all this. He is not a fool like Capers.

so why is it wrong for us to have a horse in the race??? i think rosenfels is the better player, why WOULDNT i be campaigning for him over carr?

HJam72
08-13-2006, 05:20 AM
Yeah, Kubes executes.

HJam72
08-13-2006, 05:21 AM
Campaigns cost too much? :shrug:

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 05:27 AM
Campaigns cost too much? :shrug:

nah...i got unlimited resources.

TEXANRED
08-13-2006, 08:46 AM
For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.
No.

There are reasons why sage is a career back-up.

Carr played hard, ran the offense well, did not lock onto any receiver, and was able to stretch the field using his feet.

Are we watching the same game?

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
08-13-2006, 08:53 AM
sir he played ONE quarter...if thats all it takes to build his confidence, he's had several sack-free quarters.
SWT you said it your self he one played one quarter. Your going to base your your argument on pulling carr for sage base on one quarter of play by carr? I know I know he's played like this for four year. Maybe so under a DEF. minded moron that treated him like a pampered premadona. Now we have Coach Kubs that is a Ex-NFL QB, EXQB Coach, EX Off. Cord. and now a NFL HEAD COACH. This man has the tools to TEACH Carr how to play the QB position. Sorry man you need to Jump off the Carr hater bandwagon for just a second and think about what your saying. If Sage was all that would the fins have traded him knowing their starter has ???, to replace him with Harrington? All I'm saying is Kubs now has GAME film of Carr in his Off. the Coach can now take Carr behind the Wood Shead and do what needs to be done. Carr will have a better game next week I have faith in Kubs. If I'm wrong in my rant next week I'll eat my plate of Crow with no argument.

KKHouston
08-13-2006, 09:02 AM
I watched the game.


Did you happen to see your boy, Vince, get hurt in his game? Running he does, will get you that.

We made the right choice passing him up.

Carr is the starter here, deal with it.

KKHouston
08-13-2006, 09:04 AM
why don't you want a kubiak molded rosenfels?

Because we have Carr. It's a better sounding QB last name.

Johnny Utah
08-13-2006, 09:07 AM
Carr played hard, ran the offense well, did not lock onto any receiver, and was able to stretch the field using his feet.




I saw one play where Carr did lock on to a WR and the ball got broken up by the safety down the middle. Overall, I think Carr had an average game. Certainly nothing to pile on him about. If Carr can't get it done during the regular season then I'm all for benching him.

KKHouston
08-13-2006, 09:16 AM
I saw one play where Carr did lock on to a WR and the ball got broken up by the safety down the middle. Overall, I think Carr had an average game. Certainly nothing to pile on him about. If Carr can't get it done during the regular season then I'm all for benching him.

As am I... but we have a long way to go, yet... and from my vantage point, he didn't look bad. Interesting to hear the fans in my section talking about this... most didn't share the sentiment that we should have taken Vince. In fact, most of them were firmly in DC's corner.

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
08-13-2006, 09:20 AM
As am I... but we have a long way to go, yet... and from my vantage point, he didn't look bad. Interesting to hear the fans in my section talking about this... most didn't share the sentiment that we should have taken Vince. In fact, most of them were firmly in DC's corner.
Good to hear about real TEAM fans for a change.

coachdent
08-13-2006, 10:04 AM
Wow, a little sour over VY are we still?


Anyone watching VY last night should eat their crow. They will lie in waiting for when VY actually completes five passes in an NFL game to get on that dead horse again!

Revolution
08-13-2006, 10:06 AM
Again i say...somebody sit here and tell me Sage had a worse game then Carr.


How many times does it have to be said that Sage played against inferior talent? I do agree that Sage looked better than Carr. BUT, I do have the ability to recognize they were not playing against the same caliber of talent.

I do not think Kubiak is a coach who will play someone who is not deserving, no matter the salary. If he thinks Sage is a better fit, he will be starting by regulars season game 1.

chuckm
08-13-2006, 10:08 AM
I'm not sure any solid conclusions can be drawn from last night's game (in regards to QB personal performances)

Carr 3-5 against the 1st team D .... 1 bad pass when Surtain jumped the route ..... 1 nice post pass to AJ on which the safety made a great save .... 3 other safe routes ....

Rosenfels 10 - 18 against the 2nd team D ..... looked good, poised, understands the offense

Porter 4-4 against the dregs ..... dunno what you can say about that

KKHouston
08-13-2006, 10:09 AM
How many times does it have to be said that Sage played against inferior talent? I do agree that Sage looked better than Carr. BUT, I do have the ability to recognize they were not playing against the same caliber of talent.

I do not think Kubiak is a coach who will play someone who is not deserving, no matter the salary. If he thinks Sage is a better fit, he will be starting by regulars season game 1.

Sage did look good, but he was playing, for purposes, scrubs. I still am amazed at all the armchair coaches here and the assessment of talent.

If you're a true fan, do you really care about "stats"? I don't. I care about winning. At the end of the game, it's all that matters. Win ugly, just win.

infantrycak
08-13-2006, 10:15 AM
Now do i seem ridiculous?????

Don't you mean rEdiculous? I believe this is at least your second offense of being diculous.

Short answer--kind of, but definitely consistent.

HeartofHouston
08-13-2006, 10:18 AM
Okay it's completely obvious that Sage played against the lesser talents of a already shallow depth'd KC Defense...

Who do you think it's harder to throw against Ty Law or Bennie Sap?? or wait how about Patrick Surtain or Jerald Brown?? Veterans Sammy Knight and Greg Wesley or 2 rookies Pollard and Page?

TEXANRED
08-13-2006, 10:24 AM
This is what I saw last night. A poised Carr go out there and take control of his team and ran the first offense very effectively. It may have been pre-season but he went out there and played to win. He also did something that I don't recall seeing him do the previous four years. Throw on the run. Not only did he throw it but it was a rope dead on target. If Smith was able to get more than a yard at a time the first drive would have been a score as well.

However its just pre-season, but man does it feel good to win.:redtowel:

Hulk75
08-13-2006, 10:25 AM
I am not even going to get into this, MOST REDICULESS THREAD I have ever seen.

You want him to fail so bad you can taste it. This is grade school Jr.High stuff you pull and I just like to watch you do it,like you acctually think people agree with you, it is funny.

I guess you have another 3 weeks to CONVINCE us all that Sage should be playing.

AND just to help you out on the football side, Sage missed about 4 or 5 guys that were WIDE OPEN, missed Bennie maybe twice down the middle(deep down the middle)

Sage did not out play Carr, :tease: "Well here are the stats":tease: Well let me put this very simple so you can understand it okay......................

Ty Law and Patrick Surtain are good Pro bowlers, OKAY.

The Chiefs back ups are just that, backups, that means that they are bad, follow me so far.

Okay so 1st team Chiefs D is better then the 2 3 and 4 team D of the Chiefs, it is a fact and that is who your boy played against yesterday.

Was that easy enough? Well have fun for a few more weeks, bash away but your crocked words are laughable over here.

kingh99
08-13-2006, 10:50 AM
btt

Hardcore Texan
08-13-2006, 11:16 AM
I was happy with Carr's performance, He looked like he was in comand to me. Just one bad pass, and AJ was close to breaking the big one. He did appear to lock on to one receiver. Over all it was a positive start. Sage looked pretty good too, I was suprised by him, he is going to be a solid BACK-UP.

That's why we have Kubiak, to decide pesky little these things for us...oh and to run the team.

All this constant whining is getting old, so is the personal vendetta.

Anguyen
08-13-2006, 11:18 AM
It the first preseason game a lot of mistakes were made on all side of football, and the Texans still win the game. Think about this we have more touch down in this 1 preseason game than the last 4 preseasons. Let hope the Texans make progress as the preseason goes on.
Go Texans!!!

cuppacoffee
08-13-2006, 11:19 AM
sir he played ONE quarter...if thats all it takes to build his confidence, he's had several sack-free quarters.

Lets be logical about this. Porter was 4 for 4 and no ints. Ball never hit the ground. Wow... :lightbulb:

I say bench both Carr and Sage.. :rolleyes:

This picking a starting QB is easy, I want Kubes job.

:coffee:

Main Entry: ri·dic·u·lous
Pronunciation: r&-'di-ky&-l&s
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin ridiculosus (from ridiculum jest, from neuter of ridiculus) or ridiculus, literally, laughable, from ridEre to laugh
Date: 1550
: arousing or deserving ridicule : ABSURD, PREPOSTEROUS

BTW Upon furthur review the answer to your original question is yes. Definitely a yes.

TexanFanInCC
08-13-2006, 11:23 AM
swtbound is just doing what he does best....stir the pot. :stirpot:

RTP2110
08-13-2006, 11:30 AM
swtbound is just doing what he does best....stir the pot. :stirpot:

Actually, I think his reputation is moving away from pot stirrer and more towards Carr hater.

GoTexans
08-13-2006, 11:38 AM
excuses, party of one, excuses.......

Uh not it's not.

And Carr still looked very impressive.

The thing I'm most impressed with is the two Texans running backs..Wali Lundy and Chris Taylor. Kubiack had a strong knack for drafting running backs late in the draft and undr his offensive scheme making them 1,000+ yard backs (Portis, Davis, etc.)

the wonger need food
08-13-2006, 11:39 AM
We've seen Carr get outplayed by opposing QB's for 4 years. This is the first year that we'll be able to see it from a QB on our own roster. Davie Franchise will be benched this year and might not get his job back. Rosenfels looks to be a much better player at this point.

DominickDavisFan76
08-13-2006, 11:39 AM
Dont forget Derrick Johnson..an eventual pro bowler..
then against Ty Law and Patrick Surtain..im amazed David Carr didnt get picked off...just throwing the ball and completing it, is great but against guys like that on the other side of the ball, shows that he is developing as a player..and finally as a.....QUARTERBACK!!!

the wonger need food
08-13-2006, 11:41 AM
Dont forget Derrick Johnson..an eventual pro bowler..
then against Ty Law and Patrick Surtain..im amazed David Carr didnt get picked off...just throwing the ball and completing it, is great but against guys like that on the other side of the ball, shows that he is developing as a player..and finally as a.....QUARTERBACK!!!

Because he didn't get picked in 2 series he's developing? Please.... Rosenfels will be the starter for this team before the season is over.

KKHouston
08-13-2006, 11:47 AM
Because he didn't get picked in 2 series he's developing? Please.... Rosenfels will be the starter for this team before the season is over.

Barring injury, you're wrong. :crutch:

KKHouston
08-13-2006, 11:50 AM
In Kubiak We Trust

Anyone else find this signature misleading? Wongo not trust Kubiak - Wongo think Rosenfel better. Wongo need new signature.

:shades:

Wolf
08-13-2006, 12:02 PM
Because he didn't get picked in 2 series he's developing? Please.... Rosenfels will be the starter for this team before the season is over.

get picked? one time he should have been picked.. if the 2nd one would have picked, I would have checked the guys hands for stickem ;heck not even that ;I would have checked to see if the guy playing was Peter Parker and he "webbed the ball" ..no way that LB would have caught it..

buddyroe
08-13-2006, 12:36 PM
Are some people saying Sage should be the starter,? A career
49% pass completion over Carr with a career completion average
of over 60%, get real. Thank the heavens that Kubiak is the coach
and not those DC haters!!!!!!

jacquescas
08-13-2006, 12:56 PM
let's not mention its the first preseason game of the year and Carr barely threw 5 passes.

dat_boy_yec
08-13-2006, 01:05 PM
What I don't get is how everybody is jumping on Sage's bandwagon when the guy in fact didn't do as good a job as Carr. Carr had one bad throw, check that horrible throw, but the rest of the time he played beyond expectations. That tipped pass everyone's talking about went through A.J.s fingers, he should have come down with it. I was sitting right there He should have had it. As far as Sage goes I can't beleive how on his jock some people are. He did good, but to ignore all the low passes and act like he's the new saviour is ridicolous, another thing was Sage didn't sell the play-action bootleg as well. Add to that that he wasn't playing the starters and I think we have a really solid back-up, but in no way is Sage ready right now to even think about taking the starting job. He completed most of his passes because our receivers were willing to get the ball. Porter also did a good job against lesser competition then Sage, does that mean he should be the starter. Get real!

Napa Auto Parts
08-13-2006, 01:08 PM
:stirpot: Again i say...somebody sit here and tell me Sage had a worse game then Carr.



its not that im a david carr homer becuase im far from it but if they would let sage start that would still be admiting we were wrong in drafting Carr Well i mean casserly was wrong and we cant do that to david carr he is the one remaining C's of the tree c's Casserly gone Capers gone Carr still here but may be there's a pattern. i can alredy smell all the negative rating im going to get from this from the david carr homers. david carr is god may be this will help a little

FILO_girl
08-13-2006, 01:24 PM
David actually got to see what a pocket was like. He isn't used to it and looked a bit skeered a time or two, one bitten, twice shy....

Rosenfels looked great out there, very poised and patient. IF he stays this way, I will understand why Kubes took him. BUT, one game doesn't tell me much.

Its preseason folks, game ONE. This isn't the crystal ball to the season, lets get a couple games under our belt before kicking players to the curb....


Kumbaya, give Kubes a chance.....

GP
08-13-2006, 01:25 PM
read the gameday thread...he should have been picked off at LEAST twice...Carr doesn't deserve squat.

Uh, the second pass was on the money and it got tipped by the defender. If the ball isn't tipped by a great last-second defensive maneuver, AJ probably goes to the end zone on that catch...the ball was thrown hard, AJ was running hard, and the slightest fingertip on that ball disrupted the route enough to cause Aj to not be able to catch it. Get your facts str8, but that's right...I forgot...your entire agenda for watching Texans football is to rag Carr and pump the other guy so you can be the brilliant mind around here that you wish to be and that you want us to all admit to.

You really are buying into your own hype. We can see that you need massive validation from us, the majority of people who are just happy for a win and don't care about who did it, and that's troubling to me.

Man, the train just never stops for you does it? You lead off with smack talk when we WON THE FRIGGIN GAME. Winning and limited innjuries was more important to me than WHO did what. The team as a whole looked like a true NFL franchise for a change.

Yeah, Sage looked OK. Congratulations. Now go down to the store and see what that buys you. It buys you this: Carr is the starter.

GP
08-13-2006, 01:33 PM
I am not even going to get into this, MOST REDICULESS THREAD I have ever seen.

You want him to fail so bad you can taste it. This is grade school Jr.High stuff you pull and I just like to watch you do it,like you acctually think people agree with you, it is funny.

I guess you have another 3 weeks to CONVINCE us all that Sage should be playing.

AND just to help you out on the football side, Sage missed about 4 or 5 guys that were WIDE OPEN, missed Bennie maybe twice down the middle(deep down the middle)

Sage did not out play Carr, :tease: "Well here are the stats":tease: Well let me put this very simple so you can understand it okay......................

Ty Law and Patrick Surtain are good Pro bowlers, OKAY.

The Chiefs back ups are just that, backups, that means that they are bad, follow me so far.

Okay so 1st team Chiefs D is better then the 2 3 and 4 team D of the Chiefs, it is a fact and that is who your boy played against yesterday.

Was that easy enough? Well have fun for a few more weeks, bash away but your crocked words are laughable over here.

The TD Sage ran in...he had an open receiver streaking across the middle (I think it was Daniels) and he could have zipped it to him. So, regardless of Sage making a good play on his own..he could have thrown it, but he didn't.

I'm not ragging Sage...but swt making him out to be a superstar is pretty laughable. He had an open man and he never even saw him. The protection was there...nobody was in Sage's face...he could have made a quick glance and he would have seen a wide open receiver.

Just a thought on this topic since swt is so bound and determined to make Sage into Tom Brady II.

Sage played good. Carr played good. And we won a game, which is what MOST people are happy about.

GP
08-13-2006, 01:37 PM
And by the way, I am imposing on myself a 2-reply system in regards to threads about bashing a player on our team (which is usually Carr).

I'll reply twice and then that's it. Woke up this morning and realized how much time I had wasted the past few weeks with trying to counter this garbage.

I know this is technically the third post, but I wanted to let you know that I am choosing to move on in life and not dwell on troll bait.

Tale Gator
08-13-2006, 01:43 PM
If Carr and Sage have similar performances in the next couple of preseason games the controversy will really start.

Sage is solid, but Carr just signed for a lot of money...

disaacks3
08-13-2006, 02:07 PM
OK, now to get a more reasoned :twocents: in here somewhere...

I watched it live, then went home and played DVR games for two hrs. looking at every snap of the 1st quarter. Several things stood out...

Did Carr look perfect, no...

His one "Bad" throw was NOT a poor choice or anything resembling one, nor did it appear a case of "lock-on". Carr appeared to be throwing at a spot for AJ to curl on, but AJ kept running his crossing route. Call it mixed signals, or confusion if you want, but the pass went where David was aiming...period.

No happy feet, every time David left the pocket (less than it appeared to me live) it was on a DESIGNED rollout. David has been coached by Kubes in practice to take what the defense is giving him and to run for yardage if he can. It'd be awfully short-sighted to criticize him for doing as told.

Sage...

Rosenfels looked very comfortable in the Kubiak "system". Playing against the guys further down the Chiefs razor-thin defensive depth chart certainly didn't hurt.

He wasn't flawless, and cost us at least TWO 1st downs due to poor decision-making and "locking-on" to a certain receiver. I focused on Joppru when we finally put him in...Sage failed to throw deep middle to Bennie on two consecutive plays where he was ALL ALONE, instead opting for short dump-offs that didn't pan out. Let us not forget a few passes at the shoelaces as well.

In conclusion - They were just baby steps, but they were in the right direction. The 'reality' is that Carr was a little nervous perhaps, but looked good in the new system, but had little time to get all the kinks worked out. Sage looked better than advertised and made me comfortable with him as a #2. Sage looks very good on short 'touch' passes, but don't expect him to rifle one in w/ Carr's velocity.

To answer the thread title - Yes, You DO seem ridiculous. :tease:

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 02:10 PM
Preseason is when we set the roster. If everyone here agrees that Sage performed well against the second team, then if your arguement is going to be it was only the 2nd team, why not let him start and run the first team reps next week? If he sucks it up against the first team like carr did, then i'll shut up and go away.

The Dream
08-13-2006, 02:15 PM
I don't think it's ridiculous to make the assumption that Rosenfels might be a better starter, I mean it's not like Carr is a pro bowler or anything....if David works fine with Kubiaks system then I say keep him as a starter, but if he starts to struggle I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Rosenfel getting some time.

Texan Asylum
08-13-2006, 02:38 PM
I don't think it's ridiculous to make the assumption that Rosenfels might be a better starter, I mean it's not like Carr is a pro bowler or anything....if David works fine with Kubiaks system then I say keep him as a starter, but if he starts to struggle I definitely wouldn't mind seeing Rosenfel getting some time.
That's a fair statement.

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
08-13-2006, 02:51 PM
Preseason is when we set the roster. If everyone here agrees that Sage performed well against the second team, then if your arguement is going to be it was only the 2nd team, why not let him start and run the first team reps next week? If he sucks it up against the first team like carr did, then i'll shut up and go away.
Sage when did you join the MB. You are Sage right?

Brandon420tx
08-13-2006, 03:00 PM
ok, once again, I could only read about half of the mindless banter *AKA Carr thread* You guys want to nit-pick on the the QBs. Fine lets play!

Lets start off with everyones favorate (Hint of sarcasm) Carr

1 bumbled snap on 4th and inches, fell forward and was saved my flanagan and Weary moving the defense backwards for the first down.
1 pass tipped, would have been a touchdown
1 pass nearly picked off. Really bad aim, if Carr had thrown in at the spot AJ was going instead of at AJs back shoulder, that would have been 8+ yards. Horrible ball placement on that play by Carr

Everyones new hero (Another hint of sarcasm) Sage Rosenfels.
Had a spectacular 2nd Quarter.
3rd Quarter, let the nit-picking begin.
Threw to Shifinos feet, was bailed out by a faceplant catch.
Overthrow ... twice? Well one was a nice long ball though

They both need some work, alot of improvement on both QB's.

Porter... looked GREAT he should be our starter (Huge amount of sarcasm)
Seriously though, for 3rd string play, our team looked way better then the Cheifs. Porters passes have some zip and accuracy *Maybe more accuracy then DC or Sage*

Ok, throw your stones now.

jmerog
08-13-2006, 03:01 PM
Again i say...somebody sit here and tell me Sage had a worse game then Carr.


The phrasing of that sentence speaks volumes about the color of your glasses. No one said either of them was bad (unless you are). if neither of them is bad then no one is 'worse'. they both did very well, i thought. i was there and i liked what i saw (except the near pick- butAll qb's throw interceptions sometimes.) David will get more comfortable and i expect him to deliver a great season. I liked him using his feet to make something out of the bootlegs. Sage looked great and i like that he is there to pressure carr but i dont think He is even close to replacing carr (unless Carr gets clobbered on a daring run).

Kubiak is somewhat of a QB expert and he choose Carr given the option. I do like that Sage is good in case Carr does flop, though. That said-He wont flop.
In one quarter, against probowl corners-he scored a touchdown and won the first down battle. In the face of an ineffective RB early in that quarter, carr ran the ball himself.

He didn't lock onto his recievers like you said either. He had time to throw and went through his progressions most of the time. he was hurried some and made a few poor decisions but all in all, i was pleased and i see him smoking the NFL this year. I'll bet He has more rushing yards than VY this year, and is in the top 12 in the league in passing yards. you better mark this so you can rub my nose in it if i am wrong.

i like seeing daniels catch so many balls. Benne caught one, too.

threw to moulds a few times- nice.

HoustonFan
08-13-2006, 03:12 PM
Coulda, woulda shoulda didn't matter as far as those 2 "almost" INTs. Guess what, there were no INTs on David Carr's part. Though, I do agree Rosenfels was a little more impressive. But Carr looked much better yesterday than we've seen in the past. Great job. Carr and Rosenfels.

chuckm
08-13-2006, 03:54 PM
wow ...... whatta read ...... the more things change the more they stay the same ....

same guys are screaming CARR SUCKS .....
same guys are screaming BE PATIENT HE'LL BE FINE ....

thank God for Gary Kubiak ....

jerek
08-13-2006, 03:56 PM
:stirpot:



its not that im a david carr homer becuase im far from it but if they would let sage start that would still be admiting we were wrong in drafting Carr Well i mean casserly was wrong and we cant do that to david carr he is the one remaining C's of the tree c's Casserly gone Capers gone Carr still here but may be there's a pattern. i can alredy smell all the negative rating im going to get from this from the david carr homers. david carr is god may be this will help a little

It's hard to take a poster seriously when his seemingly imperceptive, paragraph-long rant features numerous misspellings and only one period. FWIW.

KKHouston
08-13-2006, 03:59 PM
Sage when did you join the MB. You are Sage right?


No, I think it's Sage's mother.

rmartin65
08-13-2006, 04:02 PM
Carr had a better completion average then Rosenfels, right? That is skewed becasuse he threw 5 passes versus Rosenfel's 18, but then again it was against better people. Plus, it was one game, hard to take much stuff from that.

texan279
08-13-2006, 04:02 PM
Sage was playing aginst 2nd and 3rd team guys against a KC team who lacks depth because of injuries right now, and it's not like Sage was looking like Montana out there. Granted, he played a good game, but he made some mistakes and bad throws. This was our first preseason game against a banged up KC team, Carr was in the game for two possessions. I guess if you think we should start Sage because of last night, Lundy should be our starting RB and Mario should be benched...I am going to wait until at least the end of preseason before developing an opinion on anyone on the team. And before I get slammed as a "Carr lover", go back in the gameday thread and read my posts, I said he looked shaky and made 2 bad passes that should have been picked off around halftime I think.

chuckm
08-13-2006, 04:05 PM
Sage was playing aginst 2nd and 3rd team guys against a KC team who lacks depth because of injuries right now, and it's not like Sage was looking like Montana out there.

Let's not cloud a perfectly good heated debate with facts, OK?

KKHouston
08-13-2006, 04:10 PM
I guess if you think we should start Sage because of last night, Lundy should be our starting RB and Mario should be benched...

Too early to tell on Mario, but I am not sure Lundy shouldn't be our starting RB. He reminded me of 5 other backs in the last 8 years in Denver.

KKHouston
08-13-2006, 04:11 PM
mmm (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=405150&posted=1#post405150)

Yeah, I noticed that, too. SWT... owned again.

Hulk75
08-13-2006, 04:27 PM
If Carr and Sage have similar performances in the next couple of preseason games the controversy will really start.

Sage is solid, but Carr just signed for a lot of money...
Yea that makes sense..............

Carr play against 1st team guys

Sage plays with the NFL Europe guys,

Yea thats even. They would sure be neck and neck.:rolleyes:

MrMeToo
08-13-2006, 04:30 PM
Carr didn't look impressive. He couldn't even get Andre, our number 1 reciever, the ball and our touchdown came from running the ball.He looked like the same Carr to me.

Napa Auto Parts
08-13-2006, 04:33 PM
It's hard to take a poster seriously when his seemingly imperceptive, paragraph-long rant features numerous misspellings and only one period. FWIW.



so does that mean your going to give me more negative rep like your used too when i mention david carr lol:bananasplit: i hope this wasnt long enough and let me run it thru spell check i dont want to get and F in houstontexans.com spelling class:spot:

Porky
08-13-2006, 04:49 PM
Preseason is when we set the roster. If everyone here agrees that Sage performed well against the second team, then if your arguement is going to be it was only the 2nd team, why not let him start and run the first team reps next week? If he sucks it up against the first team like carr did, then i'll shut up and go away.

This reminds me of the old adage, if you say something enough times, maybe people will start to believe it. Do you think you are the only one who watched the game last night? Just because you say Carr sucked and played like garbage, are we supposed to believe you over our own eyes. I am not a Carr apoligist, but he in no way sucked last night. If I were his teacher, he would get a B from me. Now, last preseason, yes he sucked. Last preseason, he would have gotten an F from me. Last night, in limited action, he looked more poised and in command then I saw last year. He made good decisions for the most part, and was more decisive. The long throw was not a bad pass. You know, there are actually players on the other side that can make plays too. The one that should have been picked off is up for debate. We would have to know how the play is designed. It MAY have been a bad pass, but there is not enough info to know. Ragging on a guy this badly, who threw all of 5 passes, and led the team in his limited time to a scoring drive, clearly makes you look like someone with an agenda, rather than a fan just wanting the best for the team.

swtbound07
08-13-2006, 04:53 PM
This reminds me of the old adage, if you say something enough times, maybe people will start to believe it. Do you think you are the only one who watched the game last night? Just because you say Carr sucked and played like garbage, are we supposed to believe you over our own eyes. I am not a Carr apoligist, but he in no way sucked last night. If I were his teacher, he would get a B from me. Now, last preseason, yes he sucked. Last preseason, he would have gotten an F from me. Last night, in limited action, he looked more poised and in command then I saw last year. He made good decisions for the most part, and was more decisive. The long throw was not a bad pass. You know, there are actually players on the other side that can make plays too. The one that should have been picked off is up for debate. We would have to know how the play is designed. It MAY have been a bad pass, but there is not enough info to know. Ragging on a guy this badly, who threw all of 5 passes, and led the team in his limited time to a scoring drive, clearly makes you look like someone with an agenda, rather than a fan just wanting the best for the team.


I know my intentions...I can't help how it appears. I saw a better option then Carr last night...as I said earlier...whats the harm in letting rosenfels get reps against the 1st team in the next preseason game if his poise was really just due to playing against poor competition?

infantrycak
08-13-2006, 05:02 PM
OK, now to get a more reasoned :twocents: in here somewhere...

I watched it live, then went home and played DVR games for two hrs. looking at every snap of the 1st quarter. Several things stood out...

Did Carr look perfect, no...

His one "Bad" throw was NOT a poor choice or anything resembling one, nor did it appear a case of "lock-on". Carr appeared to be throwing at a spot for AJ to curl on, but AJ kept running his crossing route. Call it mixed signals, or confusion if you want, but the pass went where David was aiming...period.

No happy feet, every time David left the pocket (less than it appeared to me live) it was on a DESIGNED rollout. David has been coached by Kubes in practice to take what the defense is giving him and to run for yardage if he can. It'd be awfully short-sighted to criticize him for doing as told.

Sage...

Rosenfels looked very comfortable in the Kubiak "system". Playing against the guys further down the Chiefs razor-thin defensive depth chart certainly didn't hurt.

He wasn't flawless, and cost us at least TWO 1st downs due to poor decision-making and "locking-on" to a certain receiver. I focused on Joppru when we finally put him in...Sage failed to throw deep middle to Bennie on two consecutive plays where he was ALL ALONE, instead opting for short dump-offs that didn't pan out. Let us not forget a few passes at the shoelaces as well.

In conclusion - They were just baby steps, but they were in the right direction. The 'reality' is that Carr was a little nervous perhaps, but looked good in the new system, but had little time to get all the kinks worked out. Sage looked better than advertised and made me comfortable with him as a #2. Sage looks very good on short 'touch' passes, but don't expect him to rifle one in w/ Carr's velocity.

To answer the thread title - Yes, You DO seem ridiculous. :tease:

What he said. The rest of this thread is agenda which was already determined before the game was played.

tulexan
08-13-2006, 05:30 PM
Maybe the Dolphins should start Brock Berlin over Daunte Culpepper. Culpepper was a pathetic 1/2 for 2 yards while Berlin was 6/12 for 104 yards and a TD.

It is hard to put up monster stats when you only have 2 possessions and are a run oriented team. If Carr was 3-15 for 23 yards in 2 or 3 quarters, then yes you would have a point. But he was 3-5 for 23 yards (plus 20 yards rushing) in one quarter running a scaled down version of our offense.

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2006, 05:33 PM
For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.

Both Sage and Porter really surprised me. Granted, they weren't playing against the same D, but they both played well. Sage definitely merits consideration and Carr needs to step it up to keep his job. I think in the end that Carr is going to be the better of the two, but Sage is much better than I expected... and that makes me feel better in case DC gets injured.

The Pencil Neck
08-13-2006, 05:39 PM
So my question is....how perfect does sage have to play versus how poorly does carr have to play for him to lose his job? Because I think tonight showed that is what should happen....and i've been saying it for weeks now.

Carr needs to actually play bad to lose his job and Sage has to look like he's actually going to play better than Carr will. What I saw looked pretty good from both guys. I think this bootleg type offense is exactly the sort of thing that David needed.

Vinny
08-13-2006, 05:42 PM
What he said. The rest of this thread is agenda which was already determined before the game was played.I think swt has an agenda too...but lets face it...Carr was on pace for another 100 yard passing game and struggled in the pocket and struggled passing in the middle of the field again (this has always been his problem). The only time he looked comfortable was when he was on the sideline throwing a safe sideline pass.

KKHouston
08-13-2006, 05:43 PM
I think swt has an agenda too...but lets face it...Carr was on pace for another 100 yard passing game and struggled in the pocket and struggled passing in the middle of the field again (this has always been his problem). The only time he looked comfortable was when he was on the sideline throwing a safe sideline pass.

I respectfully disagree, Vinny. He looked extremely comfortable on his boots, and looking across the middle.

Revolution
08-13-2006, 05:44 PM
Carr looked like garbage

This statement says all you need to know about this swt guy. He slams Carr just to slam him. There was nothing about last nights game that you could say was "garbage."

Come on everyone all you need to do is look at his avatar.

Tulip
08-13-2006, 05:45 PM
I thought all 3 QBs looked good. I was pleasantly surprised. I had low expectations for Carr and Rosenfels and none for Porter. They all looked poised and made some good plays.

Vinny
08-13-2006, 05:55 PM
I respectfully disagree, Vinny. He looked extremely comfortable on his boots, and looking across the middle.I haven't rewatched the game yet but Carr fumbled on one key possession (lucky bounce got us the first down), and all the passes that were in the middle of the field that were not underneath coverage were touched by a Chief before a Texan wr touched them....you can call that comfy...I call that less than comfortable. I think he looks great on the roll out and when he throws underneath or to the sidelines....but teams can take that away in due time. He has to get better in the pocket and in the middle of the field with his passes or we won't be able to sustain drives and he will pass for 24 yards a quarter as he did yesterday and all too often in the past.

CajunTexan
08-13-2006, 06:19 PM
I haven't rewatched the game yet but Carr fumbled on one key possession (lucky bounce got us the first down), and all the passes that were in the middle of the field that were not underneath coverage were touched by a Chief before a Texan wr touched them....you can call that comfy...I call that less than comfortable. I think he looks great on the roll out and when he throws underneath or to the sidelines....but teams can take that away in due time. He has to get better in the pocket and in the middle of the field with his passes or we won't be able to sustain drives and he will pass for 24 yards a quarter as he did yesterday and all too often in the past.

Perception is reality
SWT is just whack...but what is interesting is how the play of Carr at QB last night sifted it's way through your perception screen Vinny.

After reading this thread for the last 30 minutes, and noting how all of the eye witnesses viewed the game, it is interesting how most, if not all, saw improvement and you saw the "same old, same old".

Not calling you out or categorizing you, it is just interesting IMO.

Vinny
08-13-2006, 06:23 PM
Perception is reality
SWT is just whack...but what is interesting is how the play of Carr at QB last night sifted it's way through your perception screen Vinny.

After reading this thread for the last 30 minutes, and noting how all of the eye witnesses viewed the game, it is interesting how most, if not all, saw improvement and you saw the "same old, same old".

Not calling you out or categorizing you, it is just interesting IMO.He threw 5 passes, two were touched by Chiefs first, fumbled once...and he threw for 24 yards in the quarter on pace for his usual hunsky. That doesn't look too different to me. I did praise him for looking "excellent" outside the pocket...but you guys can't take unbiased views...you have to have a homer take or you can't stand it.

Wolf
08-13-2006, 06:28 PM
I got to rewatch it today and unless my steel blue glasses were on.

well one pass should have been intercepted.. AJ did a great job breaking it up.. the other one the LB made a heck of a play and no way the LB catches that at any time.. LB was going to his left and outstretched to hit the ball ...one of those really good plays.. wasn't a bad pass but more of a better play. LB misses that AJ has a chance to go to paydirt..good pass IMO and only thing I didn't get to catch on is if Carr looked off the receiver and if he didn't that was the difference

CajunTexan
08-13-2006, 06:29 PM
but you guys can't take unbiased views...you have to have a homer take or you can't stand it.

I just made an observation about how your view was in the minority of views that I read on this thread from fans that were at the game.

I did not give my view, as I did not see the game, only ESPN highlights. I hardly think this rates the above quote.

Brandon420tx
08-13-2006, 06:31 PM
A thing about the first quarter, The texans had 2 drives. lasting 9 minutes and 51 seconds. KC's second drive went into the second quarter. Carr had 17 plays, Rosenfels had 37*

*Don't know which number of the plays were punts or that darmn missed FG

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/drives/NFL_20060812_KC@HOU

Wow, I didn't put an opinion in here... fine here we go

My Opinion: Carr and Rosenfels still have work to do in order to become great QBs

Wolf
08-13-2006, 06:31 PM
the fumble stunk, but I after watching this, this morning that my first instict was we wouldn't have gotten the first... FB took on 1st blocker and another LB was coming through the hole when the RB hit it(got lucky on the Carr fumble) I am not saying Carr shouldn't have fumbled and Carr got lucky getting it back, but would have been an interesting matchup if RB and LB would have met in that hole

TEXANRED
08-13-2006, 06:32 PM
Because he didn't get picked in 2 series he's developing? Please.... Rosenfels will be the starter for this team before the season is over.
Really? Wow. I wish I had your crystal ball. :fortune:

And while we are on the subject and your handy dandy Magic 8 ball is working better than mine, what stock should I buy tomorrow. I was thinking Ford but not sure how they would close considering there up and down over the last three months.

Vinny
08-13-2006, 06:32 PM
I just made an observation about how your view was in the minority of views that I read on this thread from fans that were at the game.

I did not give my view, as I did not see the game, only ESPN highlights. I hardly think this rates the above quote.I'm in the minority view many times because I don't parrot the views of others. I've always given my unbiased reflection of the games and I think my opinion has held up over the last 5 years as well as anyone's.

'you' means you all....not you specifically. It's a general thing.

Hardcore Texan
08-13-2006, 06:43 PM
He threw 5 passes, two were touched by Chiefs first, fumbled once...and he threw for 24 yards in the quarter on pace for his usual hunsky. That doesn't look too different to me. I did praise him for looking "excellent" outside the pocket...but you guys can't take unbiased views...you have to have a homer take or you can't stand it.


Well, after re-watching the "bad pass" that Surtain almost intercepted and AJ broke up, it looked more like a miscommunication to me, it looked like Carr was thinking it was a curl and A.J. kept running, so only the coaching staff knows that one.

The second was a great defensive play by the LB.

I think Carr looked great on the rollouts, I think he looked comfortable as a Leader, and I would like to see more than 5 passes before I say he is only going to pass for a 100 yards. All in all he looked pretty good to me, but I will re-watch the entire game soon. The fumble looked liked a bad exchange from center, DC seemed too anxious to get going on that play and didn't secure it.

Bottom Line is Kubiak will continue to evaluate Carr and his play, and he will make him better, and if he can't get him to succeed then I have been wrong about where I think Carr is headed.

Revolution
08-13-2006, 06:43 PM
I'm in the minority view many times because I don't parrot the views of others. I've always given my unbiased reflection of the games and I think my opinion has held up over the last 5 years as well as anyone's.

'you' means you all....not you specifically. It's a general thing.

Just because your view is the minority view, how does that necessarily make it unbiased? You do not like Carr, just come out and say it. People will respect you more for it. The fact that you do not like Carr, makes it impossible for you to make an unbiased review of his performance last night, at least from what I see.

Judging him on his first preseason game...If that is the case, then I guess Lundi should have been a top five pick and Vince Young should have been a 6th round pick.

I am not saying either is the case, BTW. Sometimes you have to clarify on message boards! ;)

Tulip
08-13-2006, 06:47 PM
Just because your view is the minority view, how does that necessarily make it unbiased? You do not like Carr, just come out and say it. People will respect you more for it. The fact that you do not like Carr, makes it impossible for you to make an unbiased review of his performance last night, at least from what I see.

Judging him on his first preseason game...If that is the case, then I guess Lundi should have been a top five pick and Vince Young should have been a 6th round pick.

Hold up. This was not David Carr's first preseason game - it was his 18th. And it was close to his 80th NFL game. Comparing him to rookies isn't really fair to the rookies.

Vinny
08-13-2006, 06:48 PM
Just because your view is the minority view, how does that necessarily make it unbiased? You do not like Carr, just come out and say it. People will respect you more for it. The fact that you do not like Carr, makes it impossible for you to make an unbiased review of his performance last night, at least from what I see.

Judging him on his first preseason game...If that is the case, then I guess Lundi should have been a top five pick and Vince Young should have been a 6th round pick.I've been here for years...Everyone knows that I just post what I see. I don't hate anyone...not that I know of.

I don't post much in Carr threads because it's impossible to be anything but a homer on this board when it comes to Carr and not get personally attacked.

I'm done here for now...have your fun.

Texans_Chick
08-13-2006, 06:48 PM
He threw 5 passes, two were touched by Chiefs first, fumbled once...and he threw for 24 yards in the quarter on pace for his usual hunsky. That doesn't look too different to me. I did praise him for looking "excellent" outside the pocket...but you guys can't take unbiased views...you have to have a homer take or you can't stand it.

I think if people put out there point of view and supported with facts without describing players as "garbage," I think people can hear it. IMO, when someone is being deliberately provocative in their choice of language and admittedly love stirring pots, they are more interested seeking attention than providing thoughtful analysis to people.

As an aside....

From what I understand, usually the early plays in Kubiak's offense are scripted. The guys upstairs in the booth look at what the tendencies of the defense are from how they reacted to the scripted plays. From that, they make playcalls based on exploiting what the defense is doing. (Imagine that.) That, I think, is where all the bootlegs came from.

Ultimately, I am not sure that you can take just the limited plays that Carr had, times them by 4 and say you get a hunsky. You know, because the game is one of momentum and flow and taking what the defense is giving, so there is really no telling.

I agree he didn't look very comfy throwing to the middle of the field, and that some of his reads looked forced. From watching on my TV screen and at the game, I really couldn't see where he is was looking too well.

I was encouraged that the offense looked like interchangeable pieces. And that the first, second or third team never looked particularly lost. In a violent game, that is something that might come in handy. Nothing terribly flashy about that, but if we can build on dependable stuff that equals wins, I'd be pretty happy about that.

Texans_Chick
08-13-2006, 06:54 PM
Well, after re-watching the "bad pass" that Surtain almost intercepted and AJ broke up, it looked more like a miscommunication to me, it looked like Carr was thinking it was a curl and A.J. kept running, so only the coaching staff knows that one.




This is an excellent point that is good to keep in mind but often gets lost in fan discussions of games.

When I talk to players and coaches, it is the number one thing that comes up when I ask them about stuff that they wish that fans really understood about the game.

Revolution
08-13-2006, 06:56 PM
I've been here for years...Everyone knows that I just post what I see. I don't hate anyone...not that I know of.

I don't post much in Carr threads because it's impossible to be anything but a homer on this board when it comes to Carr and not get personally attacked.

I'm done here for now...have your fun.

I didn't say you hated anyone did I? But it is pretty obvious that you do not like Carr, for whatever reason.

I am open to Carr not being the long term solution. From what we have seen with the new coaching staff, it is pretty obvious the last regime had no clue. I just say we should give Carr the benefit of the doubt. We should not judge him on one quarter of football. As TC said, it is likely that every play that Carr was part of was scripted pregame.

I just need to see more before i throw Carr out with the bath water (old regime).

Hardcore Texan
08-13-2006, 06:58 PM
I think if people put out there point of view and supported with facts without describing players as "garbage," I think people can hear it. IMO, when someone is being deliberately provocative in their choice of language and admittedly love stirring pots, they are more interested seeking attention than providing thoughtful analysis to people.

As an aside....

From what I understand, usually the early plays in Kubiak's offense are scripted. The guys upstairs in the booth look at what the tendencies of the defense are from how they reacted to the scripted plays. From that, they make playcalls based on exploiting what the defense is doing. (Imagine that.) That, I think, is where all the bootlegs came from.

Ultimately, I am not sure that you can take just the limited plays that Carr had, times them by 4 and say you get a hunsky. You know, because the game is one of momentum and flow and taking what the defense is giving, so there is really no telling.

I agree he didn't look very comfy throwing to the middle of the field, and that some of his reads looked forced. From watching on my TV screen and at the game, I really couldn't see where he is was looking too well.

I was encouraged that the offense looked like interchangeable pieces. And that the first, second or third team never looked particularly lost. In a violent game, that is something that might come in handy. Nothing terribly flashy about that, but if we can build on dependable stuff that equals wins, I'd be pretty happy about that.

I thought I saw you and one other MB member on TV. It was that red hat, the other person I thought I saw was the guy with his avatar of baby on his shoulder, looked just like the guy in the avatar I will have to look for a post of his to remember his username.

The Dude Abides
08-13-2006, 07:01 PM
For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.

Isn't this a preseason game? Not only that, it was Carr vs. first team VS. Rosenfels vs. leftovers. There's no need for a QB debate until half way through the season. I got into this thread to late I think.

Vinny
08-13-2006, 07:01 PM
I didn't say you hated anyone did I? But it is pretty obvious that you do not like Carr, for whatever reason.Basically you tell me that if I am dishonest people will like me more....but trust me when I tell you this...I have no desire to be "popular". I just tell it like I see it. I have said negative things about many players over many years here but once I talk about Carr people come out say that my posts aren't respectable or I have some sort of agenda...that's just bull. I like to be right, so I don't like to push foolish agendas that make me look bad. I just give my honest thoughts on the game. Sorry that offends you guys but it will never change even though people like you can't stand that I post my opinion and call me out on it. I don't tell you that you are not entitled to your opinion, why don't you do the same for me pards.

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
08-13-2006, 07:04 PM
Here we go again bashing Carr this gets old everyone, Sage looked great big deal, here is a guy 6 years in the league only 2 starts in the last 2 seasons, 3rd string QB for the Redskins traded to miami, now dumped here in Houston.....Mcnair did not pay David Carr all the millions, so we can get a plunger out and suck up some 3rd string QB.......Everyone lets give David a chance....... Rome was not built in one day this is our Quarterback....... give our coaches and staff a fair chance to mold David please.......don't get me wrong Sage looked good and the coaching staff picked him up for a reason, but not to a least give David a fair chance, is wrong, Capers and Casserly days are over, this is our team......if you need help with this rent the movie Hoosiers with Gene Hackman......true classic :hairpull:

FILO_girl
08-13-2006, 07:05 PM
I thought I saw you and one other MB member on TV. It was that red hat, the other person I thought I saw was the guy with his avatar of baby on his shoulder, looked just like the guy in the avatar I will have to look for a post of his to remember his username.

Yep, TC was on TV during the game last night. :)

Texans_Chick
08-13-2006, 07:09 PM
I thought I saw you and one other MB member on TV. It was that red hat, the other person I thought I saw was the guy with his avatar of baby on his shoulder, looked just like the guy in the avatar I will have to look for a post of his to remember his username.

Yup, that was me and friend Diane. I was trying to jam all the stuff back into my purse after pulling my new Texans flag out of it and waving it after the touchdown. It folds up pretty nice.

Geez, with this candid camera stuff, I'm gonna have to be very careful to keep my legs crossed and not pick my nose and whatnot now that I have camera zone seats. eek.

Brandon420tx
08-13-2006, 07:18 PM
Here's a question for some of you Veterans on the boards; that I respect the opinion of...Vinny, TC and the like...

Why does speaking negatively...wait, scrap that...why does speaking IN ANY WAY OTHER THAN 100% POSITIVELY OF CARR...automatically mean that we are bashing him?

Is it the implication of many that if we aren't a Carr (what's the word for "suck-up"?) "fan" then somehow we aren't a Texans fan?

I mean good grief guys..."Rome wasn't built in a day?" But I bet that they didn't have supervisors pushing crews that DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IN THE HECK THEY WERE DOING!!!!!

Leave it to my old buddy SWT to spawn a "carr basher" thread! lol
Edit: (You must spread some rep before.... Luv ya blue again.... forgot to sign)
Well then, according to you, I'm a Carr and Rosenfels basher!



http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=405069&postcount=105

Wolf
08-13-2006, 07:21 PM
discussions of starting Qb's,politics and religion all are a left or right thing (it seems)

like the old joke "What is the most popular player on a losing football team?" ...backup QB..

hmm reminds me of the oliver luck days.

Revolution
08-13-2006, 07:25 PM
Basically you tell me that if I am dishonest people will like me more....but trust me when I tell you this...I have no desire to be "popular". I just tell it like I see it. I have said negative things about many players over many years here but once I talk about Carr people come out say that my posts aren't respectable or I have some sort of agenda...that's just bull. I like to be right, so I don't like to push foolish agendas that make me look bad. I just give my honest thoughts on the game. Sorry that offends you guys but it will never change even though people like you can't stand that I post my opinion and call me out on it. I don't tell you that you are not entitled to your opinion, why don't you do the same for me pards.

Chill, you are throwing lots of things my way that are totally wrong. I didn't tell you to lie. I just think it is obvious you don't like Carr, the quarterback. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. Did I say that you weren't? I'm just gonna let this go because it seems you are quite upset about something.

Doug
08-13-2006, 07:27 PM
I thought all 3 QBs looked good. I was pleasantly surprised. I had low expectations for Carr and Rosenfels and none for Porter. They all looked poised and made some good plays.
I agree with this except for the expectations of Carr. I didn't have high or low expectations. I expected Porter to look a little like Printers but he held up real well.

Vinny
08-13-2006, 07:28 PM
Chill, you are throwing lots of things my way that are totally wrong. I didn't tell you to lie. I just think it is obvious you don't like Carr, the quarterback. Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. Did I say that you weren't? I'm just gonna let this go because it seems you are quite upset about something.It is a pet peeve of mine. I'm in this thread talking about our players and you are talking about me. Refute my arguments about how Carr looks better on the bootleg than in the pocket....I won't be upset at that. I just hate it when I'm discussing the team and you guys are discussing me instead of my arguments. It happens every year like this...I just get frustrated by it. That's all.

Brandon420tx
08-13-2006, 07:28 PM
Not directing anything at you Bud. I couldn't...don't know you.
I've received a whole slew of neg. rep hits because I am not "Lock Stock and Barrel" on the Pro-Texans bandwagon.

Got two just last night for saying, "MW didn't have a good game and I hope he gets better soon!"

I'm not being hostile to you. I was just trying to prove its possible to be critical our QBs without being labeled as a hater or homer.


According to some peoples philosophy, the QB who played the best for us yesterday should be our starter, then in that case, I'm buying a Quinton Porter jersey :stirpot:

Revolution
08-13-2006, 07:33 PM
Hold up. This was not David Carr's first preseason game - it was his 18th. And it was close to his 80th NFL game. Comparing him to rookies isn't really fair to the rookies.

Judging him on his first preseason game in a new offensive scheme...

better?

What you are stating is true, but that wasn't what I was getting at. It is THE first preseason game of this year.

Texans_Chick
08-13-2006, 07:34 PM
Here's a question for some of you Veterans on the boards; that I respect the opinion of...Vinny, TC and the like...

Why does speaking negatively...wait, scrap that...why does speaking IN ANY WAY OTHER THAN 100% POSITIVELY OF CARR...automatically mean that we are bashing him?

Is it the implication of many that if we aren't a Carr (what's the word for "suck-up"?) "fan" then somehow we aren't a Texans fan?

I mean good grief guys..."Rome wasn't built in a day?" But I bet that they didn't have supervisors pushing crews that DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IN THE HECK THEY WERE DOING!!!!!

Leave it to my old buddy SWT to spawn a "carr basher" thread! lol

I guess it is a matter of style and substance whether I consider something bashing or not, of Carr or whomever or whatever.


I like cake.

I like to eat it on a plate. Preferably with a fork.

I do not like cake if it is shoved in my face.


I visit MBs because I find that knowledgeable fans often have the best insight on their teams, much more than the superficial crud you often get from national "expert" publications or the local media.

The problem I find with MBs is when the thoughtful stuff gets lost in the rhetoric and trolling and told-you-so-ing. That instead being a helpful place of trying to figure out what sorta team you got, it is just turns into a goo of rehash and exaggeration.

So, for me, I really like when people bring up rational criticism that recognizes the limitations of making that criticism. I don't much care for regurgitated, redundant armchair QB bomb throwing.

Texans_Chick
08-13-2006, 07:36 PM
It is a pet peeve of mine. I'm in this thread talking about our players and you are talking about me. Refute my arguments about how Carr looks better on the bootleg than in the pocket....I won't be upset at that. I just hate it when I'm discussing the team and you guys are discussing me instead of my arguments. It happens every year like this...I just get frustrated by it. That's all.

Amen.

Another verse, same as the first.

Runner
08-13-2006, 07:47 PM
The problem I find with MBs is when the thoughtful stuff gets lost in the rhetoric and trolling and told-you-so-ing. That instead being a helpful place of trying to figure out what sorta team you got, it is just turns into a goo of rehash and exaggeration.


I saw this in a book I recently read; while not literally true, it is food for thought. The speaker is Auguste Duponte, a Sherlock Holmes type detective.


If a fact is said once, we may pay attention, but if a fact is fixed in four places, ignore it, for along the way its replication has stopped all thought.

Matthew Pearl - The Poe Shadow

Doug
08-13-2006, 07:48 PM
Judging him on his first preseason game in a new offensive scheme...

better?

What you are stating is true, but that wasn't what I was getting at. It is THE first preseason game of this year.
It just seems to me that the differences in opinion are through two totally different foundations of thought (That's original). On one hand you've got people looking at the overall results of Carr's play and decisions in a new offense and the others looking at Carr's mechanics, bad habits, etc. (that he's had for a while now). Just my opinion. Did that make sense or will I be the thread killer again?

GP
08-13-2006, 07:56 PM
I saw this in a book I recently read; while not literally true, it is food for thought. The speaker is Auguste Duponte, a Sherlock Holmes type detective.

I have absolutely no clue what you are saying :spy: , and frankly I am getting really freaked out right now. This is football, not an afternoon reading at the public library. Somebody get that man a WWE magazine. Stat!

Just kidding, runner. I appreciate your contributions.

RTP2110
08-13-2006, 07:58 PM
Wow. IMO I would say that its nearly impossible to evaluate a QB on 5 passes in the 1st preseason game under a new head coach. I would think it would take a little more then that to get a ''fair'' evaluation of any QB, 1st, 2nd, or 3rd string. Seems many people have already wrote the book in one game. Ok I'm staying away from all Carr threads until at least week 4 of the regular season. Most of us should be able to draw reasonable conclusions at that point in the season.

Revolution
08-13-2006, 07:58 PM
Amen.

Another verse, same as the first.

That's part of what a message board is, unfortunately. Thousands of anonymous people who are far more aggressive than they would ever be in person. I let Vinny know that I am going to stay more football focused as I have let myself fall into the trap of getting more personal than I should.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but it is better received on a message board if you have some facts that back it up. I have failed on numerous occasions to back up my arguments. Mostly because I haven't taken the time to do the research.

Sorry for the off-topic post. Carry on....

Texansbacker
08-13-2006, 08:00 PM
I like Vinny's opinion as it is always based in facts and in this case about David Carr. Carr did nothing spectacular but he did what he was asked and he did so pretty efficiently for the first preseason game.

Carr should progress through the preseason and hopefully treat us to an opening day win against the Eagles, ala 2002 against the Cowboys. Nobody doubted Carr after that game when he was slinging it to Billy Miller. After that game and for the next 3 years there were flashes of brilliance and grit from Carr but also indecision and frustration.

The slate is now clean and with the addition of a true quarterback coach in Kubiak, a new system, added firepower(Eric Moulds, Kevin Walter, Jeb Putzier, Bennie Joppru, Owen Daniels) and a renewed confidence, Carr has every opportunity to live up to his draft status. For the Texans to succeed he needs to become this years Carson Palmer (without the leg injury) and I hope he does.

Vinny
08-13-2006, 08:01 PM
Hey, I wasn't exactly a box of chocolates when I first discovered message boards...we all have our moments, and some of us learn from our issues. I know I can come across really poorly at times. I'm gonna run for a bit, but before I split I will say that I should know better than to talk football in a thread started by the Anti-Carr pot stir guy (swtbound07). My bad for that one.

:redtowel:

Wolf
08-13-2006, 08:06 PM
I think we forget that Carr supporters and Carr bashers.. Kubiak has a set of plays based on down and distance that he goes with on first of the game.. we review game film and adjust from there on how game film goes.. that is why I think we can't judge Carr from 2 series...he was basically a 1/2 step from being 4/5 with a td instead of 3/5 and no td.... the bootlegs are something IMO later in the game open things up .in many ways .. can't judge that off of one quarter..

Runner
08-13-2006, 08:09 PM
I have absolutely no clue what you are saying :spy: , and frankly I am getting really freaked out right now. This is football, not an afternoon reading at the public library. Somebody get that man a WWE magazine. Stat!

Just kidding, runner. I appreciate your contributions.

Careful, now I have tell you the last book I read.

My Sister's Keeper - Jodi Picoult

Now that is scary. I still can't believe it myself.

----------

I should know better than to talk football...


That's why I'm not!

chuckm
08-13-2006, 08:26 PM
Bottom Line is Kubiak will continue to evaluate Carr and his play, and he will make him better, and if he can't get him to succeed then I have been wrong about where I think Carr is headed.


well stated

Kaiser Toro
08-13-2006, 08:39 PM
David Carr, was what I expected in a more QB friendly scheme. I do not see this offense exposing him as much and for that matter I am thankful. He is our QB for the next three years and we just have to hope he is not put in a position where anyone expects him to have strong shoulders and carry the offense.

Sage played against inferior players, but looked like an NFL QB out there. This was, is and will be Carr's position, but it is Kubiak's team. If Kubiak wants Carr in, then I want him in. I have that much faith in our HC at this moment.

I hope that Kubiak will be here for decades and we can just plug and play skill positions and pay above market prices for the guys in the trenches. I felt that I watched an NFL offense and defense, in the same game, from the team in the home whites and was dumbstruck.

Texan Asylum
08-13-2006, 08:48 PM
I felt that I watched an NFL offense and defense, in the same game, from the team in the home whites and was dumbstruck.

Kaiser...that was beautiful man.:crying:

Kaiser Toro
08-13-2006, 08:55 PM
I agree but didn't the Texans finally look like a NFL team last night?

I believe that is what I said verbatim with some granularity.

chuckm
08-13-2006, 08:57 PM
I believe that is what I said verbatim with some granularity.


and you explained it better too ..... :)

Hardcore Texan
08-13-2006, 09:48 PM
Hey, and our O-Line looked pretty good, pass protection was not bad at all, and the ZBS was looking good, the commentators did a good job of spotlighting the O-Lineman breaking off and picking up blocks downfield.

Lundy was very impressive with his decisive one-cuts and hitting the gaps. A. Smith was disappointing though.

Demeco really impressed me too, he was making the defensive calls in the huddle wasn't he? Lots of positives from that young man.

Also, I get the feeling Carr is going to hit Moulds alot, make defenses respect the threat.....and of course freeing up A.J. :redtowel:

edo783
08-13-2006, 09:58 PM
Also, I get the feeling Carr is going to hit Moulds alot, make defenses respect the threat.....and of course freeing up A.J. :redtowel:

That may actually be a conciouse preseason plan by Kubiak. Get teams aware that Molds is there so that when the season starts they worry about Molds after reviewing the film, and AJ is more free to roam when it counts.

Speedy
08-13-2006, 10:02 PM
According to some peoples philosophy, the QB who played the best for us yesterday should be our starter, then in that case, I'm buying a Quinton Porter jersey :stirpot:And that's why I'm glad the Texans hire people to make those decisions and people on a message board don't.

thunderkyss
08-13-2006, 10:30 PM
let's not mention its the first preseason game of the year and Carr barely threw 5 passes.


That's the only reason I can't really chime in with my Carr hating chums... he only threw the ball 5 times...


Both Sage and Porter really surprised me. Granted, they weren't playing against the same D, but they both played well. Sage definitely merits consideration and Carr needs to step it up to keep his job. I think in the end that Carr is going to be the better of the two, but Sage is much better than I expected... and that makes me feel better in case DC gets injured.

what I saw, and what I think swtbound is saying, is that Sage & Porter looked as if they were playing at a level higher than the second & third team guys they were sharing the field with.

& I agree, I'd like to see Sage with the first team, and Porter with the second team. But I don't think that will be happening in a preseason game, this year. I know Kubiak has been talking about more competition in practice, and that everyone will be pushed...... but as far as Carr goes, the job is his to lose.

I know, Kubiak has a list of things he expects to see from David....... a list of things he doesn't want to see....... and a list of things they'll be working on. At this point, I imagine David's list is longer than Sage's, but because David is the face of this franchise, and Kubiak doesn't believe he is lost yet, David will start with the first team as much as possible.

But, if Kubiak was to announce he plans to start Sage this year, I wouldn't be any more worried about our season, than I would be, if David were startin. Instead of 13-3, I might be predicting 12-1-1 or something like that.

But it's only one game...... don't confuse me as one of the guys saying Sage should start for us.... I'm saying if we trust Kubiak's judgement of Carr, then the same should be extended to Sage. The only people who pick QBs to be back-up QBs, are people who are used to loosing. IMHO, Kubiak doesn't pick back-ups..... he picks should-be-starters.

TexanBacker93
08-13-2006, 10:30 PM
Here's a question for some of you Veterans on the boards; that I respect the opinion of...Vinny, TC and the like...

Why does speaking negatively...wait, scrap that...why does speaking IN ANY WAY OTHER THAN 100% POSITIVELY OF CARR...automatically mean that we are bashing him?

Is it the implication of many that if we aren't a Carr (what's the word for "suck-up"?) "fan" then somehow we aren't a Texans fan?

I mean good grief guys..."Rome wasn't built in a day?" But I bet that they didn't have supervisors pushing crews that DIDN'T KNOW WHAT IN THE HECK THEY WERE DOING!!!!!

Leave it to my old buddy SWT to spawn a "carr basher" thread! lol

Well, considering Kubiak himself will speak critically of Carr I guess many people will think he's a Carr basher as well.

I like David Carr. I don't know if it's as much that I really want him to succeed. him being the first player ever drafted by the team and all, or that I think he's endured a lot and continues to fight. Does he have some problems? Yes. Does he have talent? Yes. Can he lead a team to the playoffs and beyond? Ye..er..n..er...nobody knows. I haven't had the opportunities to get to any of the training camps, but I've seen some of the videos and watched the news and such. It sounds to me like Kubiak is riding Carr. He is getting on him for making the same mistakes and considering it's the first time a coach has done that it might take a few games to straighten out. I have faith that Kubiak, Calhoun, and the rest of the Texans' coaching staff will get him where he needs to be. If he struggles I don't think it's bashing him to comment on how he performed. I agree that Sage looked a little more comfortable out there last night. I think he's gotten better coaching since he's been in the NFL and maybe that's made a difference.

Bottom line - Kubiak is here to win. He isn't going to play the inferior player just because he's Bob McNair's favorite. McNair wants to win. He's going to let Kubiak put the best 22 on the field regardless of signing bonuses.

TEXANRED
08-13-2006, 10:44 PM
what I saw, and what I think swtbound is saying, is that Sage & Porter looked as if they were playing at a level higher than the second & third team guys they were sharing the field with.




Keep in mind last year. Remember when we played the Bills? Our D was so bad we made JP lossman look like the next Ken Stabler. Three games later he is benched for Holcomb and right this very second is being considered as a bust. Or how about the St Louis game when the D was so pathetic a third string Ivy League QB was being touted as the next Kurt Warner. Your level of competition matters.

Thats great that Sage and Porter are the Kings of the dregs. Hey every good team needs a reliable back up. Just look at the Falcons and Jags. Good off the bench but not for a season. Sage has had his chances through the years. "This ain't his first rodeo." So to speak.

thunderkyss
08-14-2006, 12:21 AM
Keep in mind last year. Remember when we played the Bills? Our D was so bad we made JP lossman look like the next Ken Stabler. Three games later he is benched for Holcomb and right this very second is being considered as a bust. Or how about the St Louis game when the D was so pathetic a third string Ivy League QB was being touted as the next Kurt Warner. Your level of competition matters.

Thats great that Sage and Porter are the Kings of the dregs. Hey every good team needs a reliable back up. Just look at the Falcons and Jags. Good off the bench but not for a season. Sage has had his chances through the years. "This ain't his first rodeo." So to speak.

I think both Garrord, and Shaub should be starting somewhere, and a lot of NFL coaches feel the same way about Shaub. Garrord, just didn't get it, I don't think until last year...... If he can put together a couple of good games this year, when Leftwich gets hurt, more folks will be asking for him come '07.

& you have to remember, neither Sage, or Porter were on this team last year. Kubiak dumped a Veteran (who did everything we asked him to), and a
prospect (that looked promising in every situation we gave him) and picked up Sage as our only backup at the time.

So while level of competition does matter, the guy picking the talent does as well.

michaelm
08-14-2006, 12:35 AM
Carr was on pace for another 100 yard passing game and struggled in the pocket and struggled passing in the middle of the field again (this has always been his problem). The only time he looked comfortable was when he was on the sideline throwing a safe sideline pass.


I really didn't see it that way personally.
I thought DC looked very stable in the pocket. I have rewatched the tape of his plays repeatedly and never saw him look bad in the pocket. There was only one play that I could identify where he may have locked onto his primary reciever, and that was the pass to AJ that was thrown into tightish quarters, but only a very good defensive play deflected that ball. An inch or two higher, and AJ might have taken that one all the way.
As far as struggling in the middle of the feild... I don't know. I mean, only one of his attempts was really in the middle, and that was a crossing route by Moulds which was completed even though a defender had a hand full of Carr's jersy and was pulling him backward (not a lot, but enough so that the ball looked like it was higher than intended). To be objective, the pass was completed, but Moulds was ridiculously wide open, so it was a pretty easy pass.
The one play that is really in question is the one that was almost picked off. I read others speculate that it may have been micommunication between AJ and DC, but I think that this was a bad decision and pass. There were too many defenders around the ball to make that pass at all. I'm hoping that Carr was just pressing to get AJ the ball and get him involved, but that was a bad play.
Other than that, Carr showed that he will force defenses to specifically game plan for the threat of roll-out/bootleg all season long.
He's going to force DEs to maintain their assignments, and they won't be able to just pin their ears back and go after him.
One half second of hesitation by the DEs will allow our tackles to be much more effective in getting to their bodies and tying them up.
You may eventually prove to be right about DC struggling in passes over the middle, but IMO nothing from this game proves that at all.

p.s. to say that he was on pace for 100 yards after just two series is, in my opinion, just an attempt to bend things in order to validate a preconcieved opinion.

thunderkyss
08-14-2006, 12:45 AM
Near the end of the game, the Cheifs finally caught on to the bootleg.. they had a man waiting there, as QP came around.

Quinton saw him, set up, and completed a pass downfield........


......... priceless.

TexansLucky13
08-14-2006, 12:50 AM
This thread has lived entirely too long. The only thing good that has come of this is that we all agree that no matter who starts, we have quality depth at the QB position. Discussion closed.

Kaiser Toro
08-14-2006, 12:53 AM
This thread has lived entirely too long. The only thing good that has come of this is that we all agree that no matter who starts, we have quality depth at the QB position. Discussion closed.

Where were you when we needed you? This thing is going as long as it needs to, the market will decide. Just have to do it out of respect for a lot of blah with legs.

skillz24
08-14-2006, 01:01 AM
there is a reason carr plays agianst the FIRST team and a reason rosenfels plays against the SECOND and THIRD. let us not forget this isn't rosefels first team they tried to start him before and he put up worst numbers with a team with a solid running back, recievers, and line then carr did all of last year...except sacks of course.

swtbound07
08-14-2006, 01:41 AM
there is a reason carr plays agianst the FIRST team and a reason rosenfels plays against the SECOND and THIRD. let us not forget this isn't rosefels first team they tried to start him before and he put up worst numbers with a team with a solid running back, recievers, and line then carr did all of last year...except sacks of course.


So again I beg the question...why would anybody have a problem with rosenfels starting against the first team next preseason game. What could it hurt?

TexansLucky13
08-14-2006, 01:47 AM
Where were you when we needed you? This thing is going as long as it needs to, the market will decide. Just have to do it out of respect for a lot of blah with legs.

That is synonymous with SWTBound07 :stirpot: :shades: :hides:

TK_Gamer
08-14-2006, 02:33 AM
He threw 5 passes, two were touched by Chiefs first, fumbled once...and he threw for 24 yards in the quarter on pace for his usual hunsky. That doesn't look too different to me. I did praise him for looking "excellent" outside the pocket...but you guys can't take unbiased views...you have to have a homer take or you can't stand it.

I have to say vinny you surprised me too, I think yer goin a little heavy on the extrapolating there. so if a guy starts with 1 for 5 passing by your system he will only complete 20% of his passes, and that means carr not only would have have 96 yds but also 4 fumbles, luckily though in this extrapolated universe we would also recover all 4 fumbles and would have scored 28 pts instead of 24. works for me

TK_Gamer
08-14-2006, 02:35 AM
So again I beg the question...why would anybody have a problem with rosenfels starting against the first team next preseason game. What could it hurt?

im just gonna say, i'm glad yer just a fan and not someone that makes the texans decisions. you are a hoot

thunderkyss
08-14-2006, 08:26 AM
This thread has lived entirely too long. The only thing good that has come of this is that we all agree that no matter who starts, we have quality depth at the QB position. Discussion closed.


If it were me, and people continued to discuss a subject after I say, "Discussion closed"......... and I mean it's happened everytime you say "Discussion closed"..... I'd quit saying "Discussion closed". But that's just me.

HJam72
08-14-2006, 09:04 AM
Yeah! :twocents: Discussion closed.

Vinny
08-14-2006, 11:49 AM
I have to say vinny you surprised me too, In the 5 or so years I've been sharing my thoughts with you guys ...this shouldn't shock anyone. I base most of my commentary on game play. You don't see me pimping my opinion much until the games start...then I base my thoughts on what I see. It's really a pretty simple forumla.

Speedy
08-14-2006, 12:13 PM
Now do i seem ridiculous????? What's ridiculous is a 200+ post thread about how ridiculous you are.

powerfuldragon
08-14-2006, 12:24 PM
carr looked better than rosenfels.

fin.

texan279
08-14-2006, 12:25 PM
I have to say vinny you surprised me too, I think yer goin a little heavy on the extrapolating there. so if a guy starts with 1 for 5 passing by your system he will only complete 20% of his passes, and that means carr not only would have have 96 yds but also 4 fumbles, luckily though in this extrapolated universe we would also recover all 4 fumbles and would have scored 28 pts instead of 24. works for me

I know that Vinny needs no one to take up for him or defend him, but it seems that some of the newer members criticize him unjustly for not being a homer. I have been on these boards for four years, and I can tell you, Vinny is not a "homer", he is a straight shooter who calls things like he sees them, whether good or bad, and it doesn't matter who or what he is talking about, he just gives an honest opinion on the situation without looking through steel blue colored glasses.

TK_Gamer
08-14-2006, 12:29 PM
I know that Vinny needs no one to take up for him or defend him, but it seems that some of the newer members criticize him unjustly for not being a homer. I have been on these boards for four years, and I can tell you, Vinny is not a "homer", he is a straight shooter who calls things like he sees them, whether good or bad, and it doesn't matter who or what he is talking about, he just gives an honest opinion on the situation without looking through steel blue colored glasses.

thats why I said he surprised me, I like vinny he has good comments, I just thought he over extrapolated and said it looked like the same carr based on that extrapolation, no need to call out the national guard or anything, I too am intitled to my opinion.

texan279
08-14-2006, 12:36 PM
thats why I said he surprised me, I like vinny he has good comments, I just those he over extrapolated and said it looked like the same carr based on that extrapolation, no need to call out the national guard or anything, I too am intitled to my opinion.

I will make one more post in this thread and move on so this thread can get back on track. I am not "calling out the national guard" and in my post I said "some of the newer members". My point is some of the newer members rip on people who have anything negative, bad, or honest to say about the team or players on here without looking through steel colored glasses, almost to the point where some of the newer members start acting like trolls, and no I am not talking about you. Yes everyone here is entitled to an opinion, and I am not ripping on you for that, just stating my opinion about some of what I have observed on the board in the last few months. I'm sorry if you took offense to my post, I guess honestly I wasn't referring to your post or you directly, but I have seen a lot of newer members ripping on Vinny and others just for stating their honest opinions.

texan279
08-14-2006, 12:40 PM
I don't have a habit of agreeing with SWT on...well pretty much ANYTHING.

But with that said, what would the harm be (other than psychological for DC) for Rosenfells(sp) to start this next preseason game just to see how he does against the starting D? Or is it as simple...from Kubiak's point of view he is and will remain the backup, barring injury of course, no matter how he or Carr plays?

Not bashing on Carr...so don't even start that stuff.

Just a question?
Just curious as to you guys thoughts...


I don't see a problem with it, if anything it should be motivation and competition for Carr. I remember either one or two preseasons ago when Carr started the preseason horribly and I was calling for Ragone to start just to see what we had with him, and people thought I was crazy lol.

texan279
08-14-2006, 12:43 PM
It seems that a little healthy competition to spice things up a bit, would only promote a little excitement in the locker room and on the field.

But maybe that's just me/us?
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/23/23_27_2.gif

I think some would agree with us, IMO there is no such thing as bad competition.

bigTEXan8
08-14-2006, 12:44 PM
I know that Vinny needs no one to take up for him or defend him, but it seems that some of the newer members criticize him unjustly for not being a homer. I have been on these boards for four years, and I can tell you, Vinny is not a "homer", he is a straight shooter who calls things like he sees them, whether good or bad, and it doesn't matter who or what he is talking about, he just gives an honest opinion on the situation without looking through steel blue colored glasses.

That's become on of my favorite things about Vinny. I was a dult when I first got on this board, challening him like I knew something. Vinny is very smart and a straight shooter, like you said.

Since I am just now getting my internet back up, I didn't see the game. All I can do is look at stats. I've seen Rosenfals play before, and I think he's a solid QB, and it will comforting to know he's going to be our back-up. I just think Carr has more to offer as a starting QB than Rosenfals.

Hulk75
08-14-2006, 12:45 PM
Rolled out and gave one to Moulds.

Okay one ball he should not have thrown, okay.

The other time he showed composure with Wandos guy getting a hand on his jersey Carr yanks him off and delivers a nice ball to Moulds.

another stayed in the pocket and gave another one to Moulds on a comeback.

Then all his play fakes were NICE, he had 20 yards rushing.

Shoot add up his rushing and he has 80 yards rushing.

I see nothing he did wrong other then the one pass.

CALL 911 get Sage warmed up.:rolleyes:

Kaiser Toro
08-14-2006, 12:47 PM
Calling TexansLucky13 to the Bull Pen.

texan279
08-14-2006, 12:47 PM
Rolled out and gave one to Moulds.

Okay one ball he should not have thrown, okay.

The other time he showed composure with Wandos guy getting a hand on his jersey Carr yanks him off and delivers a nice ball to Moulds.

another stayed in the pocket and gave another one to Moulds on a comeback.

Then all his play fakes were NICE, he had 20 yards rushing.

Shoot add up his rushing and he has 80 yards rushing.

I see nothing he did wrong other then the one pass.

CALL 911 get Sage warmed up.:rolleyes:

Honestly, I think Carr's problem was probably nerves...

TK_Gamer
08-14-2006, 12:48 PM
I honestly think any team is gonna have trouble with KC's cheating style cover 2 , they converge under really well and they have two decent safeties so its gonna be alot of take the underneat or risk the deep throw. our tight ends should help with a stutter post type of route. force them to commit and cut down their converge speed. my thoughts anyway, interested to hear anyone elses take on it.

chuckm
08-14-2006, 12:51 PM
Calling TexansLucky13 to the Bull Pen.


He's asleep .....

TK_Gamer
08-14-2006, 12:53 PM
Honestly, I think Carr's problem was probably nerves...

before everyone jumps on me again I'm not going carr homer or anything with this, but quite honestly the way carr moves his feet and holds the ball up, he kinda allways gives that "nervous" impression. but I dont think he is all that nervous, just a style or technique thing. in my oppinion anyway, he just allways looks a little awkward even on his great plays.

HOU-TEX
08-14-2006, 12:53 PM
Rolled out and gave one to Moulds.

Okay one ball he should not have thrown, okay.

The other time he showed composure with Wandos guy getting a hand on his jersey Carr yanks him off and delivers a nice ball to Moulds.

another stayed in the pocket and gave another one to Moulds on a comeback.

Then all his play fakes were NICE, he had 20 yards rushing.

Shoot add up his rushing and he has 80 yards rushing.

I see nothing he did wrong other then the one pass.

CALL 911 get Sage warmed up.:rolleyes:

I think all 3 of our QBs did a nice job. One of the passes complete to Moulds, AJ was wide open deep. It'll probably take a little time for Carr to adjust to actually having time to make his decisions. Maybe as pre-season wears on we might see a few passes further down the field.:drool:

Lucky
08-14-2006, 12:54 PM
Big ups to swtbound07. Because we absolutely needed a knee-jerk "Let's bench David Carr" thread after a win in the preseason opener. Needed it like flies need garbage.

This axiom will never fade. "The most popular guy in town is the backup quarterback." Sage is the man. I'm just wondering where all the posters who slammed the Rosenfels signing are? (crickets)

I'm usually a "glass half full" kind of guy in the preseason. So if David Carr can play so poorly, and the team still scores on 50% of their possessions...they'll be unstoppable when he actually plays well! (I need a spinning smilie here)

texan279
08-14-2006, 12:57 PM
Sorry to be a total Message Board "Spaz," but what is a "Carr Homer?"
I can't be the only one on the boards that doesn't know...or am I?
Answer please...

Someone who defends everything Carr does and thinks he does no wrong, whether it be good or bad, while watching him through steel blue colored glasses.

Hulk75
08-14-2006, 12:58 PM
Not saying that at all...
Just asking a question...
What would it REALLY hurt to give the kid a chance?
Not calling 911, the National Guard or Rambo...
The question is...
WHAT WOULD IT REALLY HURT?
It's an honest question looking for honest feedback!
What has Sage done to earn that.

I could see Carr sitting to rest him in the pre season, so he does not get hurt like Clinton Portis.

But if Carr is doing good why would they do it.

Lets sit Andre and Moulds just to see what Walters and Lewis can do. WHY?

disaacks3
08-14-2006, 12:59 PM
Not saying that at all...
Just asking a question...
What would it REALLY hurt to give the kid a chance?
Not calling 911, the National Guard or Rambo...
The question is...
WHAT WOULD IT REALLY HURT?
It's an honest question looking for honest feedback! It depends, are you going to let Kubiak do what HE thinks best?
Are you trying to get DC ready for the season, or is seeing how Rosenfels can do against the 1st team-D more important?
I wonder how DC would fare against the 2nd-3rd string.

My advice to all concerned is WATCH the tape (if you can), and listen to Kubiak's evaluations.

TK_Gamer
08-14-2006, 01:00 PM
Sorry to be a total Message Board "Spaz," but what is a "Carr Homer?"
I can't be the only one on the boards that doesn't know...or am I?
Answer please...

carr homer, carr supporter, carr appologist, non-carr-hater, call it what you will. seems carr is just a partisan subject with a no win situation you say he does good yer a carr lover, you critisize yer a carr hater, overall touchy subject.

texan279
08-14-2006, 01:01 PM
He's asleep .....

Did I miss something?:hides:

beerlover
08-14-2006, 01:03 PM
in a strange turn of events Kubiak molds David Carr into a scatback QB capable of running sideline to sideline wearing down entire defenses without once getting sack'ed, a new hybred QB has been created :spy:

srstex
08-14-2006, 01:03 PM
Well it's great to be undefeated, I am so pleased that I lost sight of the fact that this is pre-season. But also I was unaware that in four years we have only won 3 pre-season games. We need to keep the winner attitude and give it back to the players every chance we get.

We are on the road to respectability

chuckm
08-14-2006, 01:04 PM
But also I was unaware that in four years we have only won 3 pre-season games.

IIRC 24 points is the most we've scored in a preseason game ....

thunderkyss
08-14-2006, 01:05 PM
[COLOR=blue]Wouldn't it be better to see how he does against them in the Preseason rather than in mid-season or during a push for the playoffs?


No....... that's what backups do.... they sit on the bench, come into the games cold, and produce with less preperation than the starters....

If our guy can't do that, we don't need him.



NEXT............

TK_Gamer
08-14-2006, 01:07 PM
I'm pretty sure Carr will get more snaps next game and we can get a better idea of how he looks. like I said I think he allways looks nervous even when he isnt so it prolly wont matter to those that just want him to be mediocre.

mexican_texan
08-14-2006, 01:16 PM
Why is this thread still alive? Hulk75 made a nice breakdown, IMO, and as we have stated before, Carr was working against Pro Bowl corners while Rosenfels was playing with guys who might not even make the Chiefs' roster. It's the first pre-season game and our guys are obviously going to be a bit rusty. IMO, the only guy that should be benched for the next game againse the Rams is Antowain Smith.

TEXANRED
08-14-2006, 01:22 PM
I'm confussed. We did win the game........right?:francis:

Just a question.

Brandon420tx
08-14-2006, 01:27 PM
Ok, to answer the question of what harm would it be to let Sage start the next preseason game.

Answer: The coaches are still evaluting David and Sage, they take their performances of the game to go over during the next weeks practice. Both David and Sage still need work, and since Carr is the projected starter (No certanties (sp?)) he should go against projected starting defenses.

Now I do feel that if Carr shows satisfactory improvement in play by the Tampa pre-season game, then that would be the time to rest him, and see what Sage can do against a first string defense.

Hulk75
08-14-2006, 01:31 PM
I'm pretty sure Carr will get more snaps next game and we can get a better idea of how he looks. like I said I think he allways looks nervous even when he isnt so it prolly wont matter to those that just want him to be mediocre.
Yea I think he will play almost a half.:cool:

The Dream
08-14-2006, 01:35 PM
I agree that Carr should start the next game also, it might cause a little tension to start Sage over him this early in the preseason....wow for the first time in like forever I actually stood up for a man by the name of David Carr.......feels kinda strange. :confused:

Brandon420tx
08-14-2006, 01:38 PM
Well Dream, you have 2 options now. Go over to the darkside (Notice, I don't sa which side is the darkside), or try to find the neutral ground, The neutral ground is difficult to locate, and I came over from the homerside, it will be difficult, but you can do it :redtowel:

jdog
08-14-2006, 01:49 PM
For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.

I do not get it. The game suggested to me that Carr haters should change their minds. Carr has shown toughness. He showed his athleticism last night more so than Rosefels. He was not locked on his primary target unless you consider Moulds his primary target. He probably checked Johnson. Johnson was covered. He checked Moulds. Moulds was open. This happened about 3-4 times. He threw one down the seam that was incomplete mostly because of a good play by the linebacker. I think it was a good throw though, and I wonder if the coach did not want him to go down the seam anyway. He messed up on the throw to Johnson for sure (it was mostly timing not aim like with Rosenfels), and Surtain (Pro Bowler) did not fail to capitalize. Otherwise, the first team mostly ran. Carr's other mistake was fumbling the ball on the 4th and 1, but he still made the play. I am sure there were some nerves involved. Rosenfels does not have the pressure of an entire city of Carr haters watching his every move. Rosenfels went against a less talented group of defensive personnel. He looked like a good backup, but he made some bad throws. Porter looked the best of all three quarterbacks, but I do not think anyone would argue that he should start.

Brandon420tx
08-14-2006, 01:58 PM
I do not get it. The game suggested to me that Carr haters should change their minds. Carr has shown toughness. He showed his athleticism last night more so than Rosefels. He was not locked on his primary target unless you consider Moulds his primary target. He probably checked Johnson. Johnson was covered. He checked Moulds. Moulds was open. This happened about 3-4 times. He threw one down the seam that was incomplete mostly because of a good play by the linebacker. I think it was a good throw though, and I wonder if the coach did not want him to go down the seam anyway. He messed up on the throw to Johnson for sure (it was mostly timing not aim like with Rosenfels), and Surtain (Pro Bowler) did not fail to capitalize. Otherwise, the first team mostly ran. Carr's other mistake was fumbling the ball on the 4th and 1, but he still made the play. I am sure there were some nerves involved. Rosenfels does not have the pressure of an entire city of Carr haters watching his every move. Rosenfels went against a less talented group of defensive personnel. He looked like a good backup, but he made some bad throws. Porter looked the best of all three quarterbacks, but I do not think anyone would argue that he should start.

I would, but thats only so I don't waste my money on his jersey. :shades:

TexansLucky13
08-14-2006, 02:04 PM
I would, but thats only so I don't waste my money on his jersey. :shades:

You bought a Porter jersey? :confused:

TexanBacker93
08-14-2006, 02:05 PM
I don't have a habit of agreeing with SWT on...well pretty much ANYTHING.

But with that said, what would the harm be (other than psychological for DC) for Rosenfells(sp) to start this next preseason game just to see how he does against the starting D? Or is it as simple...from Kubiak's point of view he is and will remain the backup, barring injury of course, no matter how he or Carr plays?

Not bashing on Carr...so don't even start that stuff.

Just a question?
Just curious as to you guys thoughts...



I don't think it would cause any psychological harm to Carr. I think he's a strong enough individual to handle that. However, Carr still has improvements to make and I think he needs to get time going against NFL caliber defenses.

thunderkyss
08-14-2006, 02:21 PM
No need for the attitude Thunder!
I was asking a very simple question!
Don't like my question...then "ignore" me!


take the chip off your shoulder...... I wasn't saying NEXT..... as in next stupid question..... that was a NEXT as in next backup QB if our guy can't produce coming off the bench.....

Brandon420tx
08-14-2006, 02:45 PM
You bought a Porter jersey? :confused:

It was a joke earlier in the thread.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=405356&postcount=162

thunderkyss
08-14-2006, 02:53 PM
You bought a Porter jersey? :confused:
He probably bought a Texans #5 hoping someone else would be wearing it.

Brandon420tx
08-14-2006, 02:54 PM
:confused: Who else would be wearing it besides Porter?

srstex
08-14-2006, 03:14 PM
You know, if we go 8-8 it will be a great season. But reading some of ya'll's comments, it sounds like if we don't win the SB we're losers. I don't like the all or nothing mentallity. Carr/ Rosenfels Davis/ Lundy less haters more cheers, we won the first game. AND since I have not read it yet, Green, the QB for KC, has avg 4000 yrds passing pr/season over the last 5 years, and he didn't torch us, so by you Carr haters reasoning, he should be replaced also. Rememeber he didn't see the end zone till his second possion either.

:homer:

jdog
08-14-2006, 03:19 PM
:confused: Who else would be wearing it besides Porter?

Reggie Bush

Brandon420tx
08-14-2006, 03:21 PM
What does George W.'s brother have to do with the Texans... I don't have cable or satelite so I don't get to watch CNN or anything else on cable... I'm confused now...

swtbound07
08-14-2006, 05:02 PM
To be fair to me, I was calling for Carr to be benched BEFORE the first preseason game, so you cant really call it a knee-jerk now can you?

As for my breakdown on the game, here is how i saw it

5 passes
2 of them hit a defenders hands, one should have been picked
1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads.

2 of 5 passes were decent.

He fumbled one of the snaps.


In Carr's quarter of play, he made 2 good throws, 3 bad ones, and could have easily been responsible for 2 turnovers. That's how i saw the first quarter

gtexan02
08-14-2006, 05:10 PM
To be fair to me, I was calling for Carr to be benched BEFORE the first preseason game, so you cant really call it a knee-jerk now can you?

As for my breakdown on the game, here is how i saw it

5 passes
2 of them hit a defenders hands, one should have been picked
1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads.

2 of 5 passes were decent.

He fumbled one of the snaps.


In Carr's quarter of play, he made 2 good throws, 3 bad ones, and could have easily been responsible for 2 turnovers. That's how i saw the first quarter

I don't know if you understand how receiver checking goes. As a general rule (as far as I understand), a QB looks to his first option. The "first option" is who the play is originally designed for. If that WR is open, he throws them the ball. He isn't supposed to check his #1 receiver, if he's open, check the rest to make sure they aren't more open, and then switch back to his #1. So my guess is that on the moulds play, moulds was his #1 target. He checked Moulds, saw he was open and could get him the ball, and threw it to him. No need to check AJ, and if he had, Moulds might not have been open anymore. Good read, good pass, good play imo

jdog
08-14-2006, 05:16 PM
To be fair to me, I was calling for Carr to be benched BEFORE the first preseason game, so you cant really call it a knee-jerk now can you?

As for my breakdown on the game, here is how i saw it

5 passes
2 of them hit a defenders hands, one should have been picked
1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads.

2 of 5 passes were decent.

He fumbled one of the snaps.


In Carr's quarter of play, he made 2 good throws, 3 bad ones, and could have easily been responsible for 2 turnovers. That's how i saw the first quarter

Facts:

3/5 for 23 yds 0 int 0 td 60% comp 4 rush for 20 yds against one of the best cb tandems we will face

BradK10
08-14-2006, 05:23 PM
I love how a guy watchin' the game on TV in his momma's basement can watch so closely he sees where David Carr is lookin' (don't judge a guy's vision by what is "vision cone" was in Madden 2006) and knows that he's not checkin' off.

ThaShark316
08-14-2006, 05:46 PM
LMMFAO @ making this thread...yes swt, you are ridiculous. This is sad... really.

michaelm
08-14-2006, 06:03 PM
To be fair to me, I was calling for Carr to be benched BEFORE the first preseason game, so you cant really call it a knee-jerk now can you?

As for my breakdown on the game, here is how i saw it

5 passes
2 of them hit a defenders hands, one should have been picked
1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads.



I too heard Spencer Tillman say this, but I actually saw the play live (in person), and reviewed it repeatedly on DVR.
Tillman was wrong. Andre was not wide open. The defender broke his coverge from AJ when the ball was thrown.

As to your first question, I agree that it can't be called a knee jerk reaction.
The truth is that you had negative expectaions of Carr going in and those expectations skewed your objectivity. IMO

texan279
08-14-2006, 08:05 PM
Originally Posted by swtbound07
To be fair to me, I was calling for Carr to be benched BEFORE the first preseason game, so you cant really call it a knee-jerk now can you?

As for my breakdown on the game, here is how i saw it

5 passes
2 of them hit a defenders hands, one should have been picked
1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads.

How do you know that he did not progress through his reads, Moulds could have been the 1st option and was open so Carr threw to him. Do you have some insight to the Texans' playbook? Have you talked to Kubiak about this? Or is this just your opinion? And I will be analyzing the game tomorrow and I will come back and post up every mistake Sage made in the game.

powerfuldragon
08-14-2006, 08:49 PM
1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads.


It might be a tactic. we might be trying to prove that andre won't be our only target this season. we might be trying to get extra defenders on Eric to leave dre open to take one to the house.

and i'll post this again because i think it's spot on.

I too heard Spencer Tillman say this, but I actually saw the play live (in person), and reviewed it repeatedly on DVR.
Tillman was wrong. Andre was not wide open. The defender broke his coverge from AJ when the ball was thrown.

As to your first question, I agree that it can't be called a knee jerk reaction.
The truth is that you had negative expectaions of Carr going in and those expectations skewed your objectivity. IMO

Brandon420tx
08-14-2006, 08:53 PM
Wow, you just gave him another excuse to pull the "excuse card" There are many hypotheticals any of them could be right.

1 of them was complete to moulds, however andre was wide open...bad decision, didn't progress through the reads. is a hyporthetical also, we don't know if Carr progressed through his reads and I've seen a post where someone said that after re-watching the game that AJ was not wide open and that the person guarding him left him after Carr threw. Then again, I don't know for sure because I dont get the oppurtunity to rewatch the game. So my point might be declared invalid then.... go Q. Porter!!!

Texans_Chick
08-14-2006, 09:18 PM
Kubiak was on with Rich and Marc this afternoon.

He said definitively, in response to a pointed question from Rich, that David Carr is the quarterback of the Houston Texans. That he has earned that right. And has worked hard for that right. He said that competition is good because it makes everyone better and makes for a better team--not just at the QB position but everywhere.

Of course, someone who has seen DC at every practice, has worked with him in the offseason, has watched practice film and game film, and is known for his work with quarterbacks, even his opinion will not make this blasted thread go away.

Oh well, coach's opinion, FWIW.

Texan Asylum
08-14-2006, 09:21 PM
Kubiak was on with Rich and Marc this afternoon.

He said definitively, in response to a pointed question from Rich, that David Carr is the quarterback of the Houston Texans. That he has earned that right. And has worked hard for that right. He said that competition is good because it makes everyone better and makes for a better team--not just at the QB position but everywhere.

Of course, someone who has seen DC at every practice, has worked with him in the offseason, has watched practice film and game film, and is known for his work with quarterbacks, even his opinion will not make this blasted thread go away.

Oh well, coach's opinion, FWIW.
Good points TC...

texan279
08-14-2006, 09:22 PM
Kubiak was on with Rich and Marc this afternoon.

He said definitively, in response to a pointed question from Rich, that David Carr is the quarterback of the Houston Texans. That he has earned that right. And has worked hard for that right. He said that competition is good because it makes everyone better and makes for a better team--not just at the QB position but everywhere.

Of course, someone who has seen DC at every practice, has worked with him in the offseason, has watched practice film and game film, and is known for his work with quarterbacks, even his opinion will not make this blasted thread go away.

Oh well, coach's opinion, FWIW.

Thank you for adding some sanity into this thread...

Toro
08-14-2006, 09:26 PM
As someone else previously mentioned, if Sage Rosenfelts is this team's starting QB for anything more than a handful of games, be prepared to be in the running for Adrian Peterson, Brian Brohm or Brady Quinn.

I'd be a lot more optimistic if we were talking about a guy who backed up McNabb, Brady, Manning or Hasselbeck, but when you take in to account the fact that Rosenfelts has spent his last two seasons backing up AJ Feely and Gus Ferrotte, it doesn't really bode too well for your cause.

michaelm
08-14-2006, 09:27 PM
I've seen a post where someone said that after re-watching the game that AJ was not wide open and that the person guarding him left him after Carr threw.

I am the one who said this and I re-watched a few times since then.
I can add some additional info on this play.

KC was in some type of man/zone. I'm not a person who can break it down into specific defensive sets, but I saw an earlier mention of a kind of cover two, maybe it was.


In any event, the LBs all dropped back immediately after they made the pass read, leaving the middle/underneth completely vacated.

Walter, lined up in the slot (as well as the strong side) did a streak and helped clear out as Moulds did a five yard square in.
Moulds had about a five yard cushion from the nearest defender. He was wide open. WIDE open.

On the other side of the field, AJ had man coverage from the corner who did a poor job jamming AJ at the line, but did stay with AJ until the pass was away.

The saftey on AJ's side started the play with his hips open toward AJ leading me to believe that he was helping the corner on that side.
At the snap, that safety turns even more towards AJ's direction as he drops back and out of camera view.
I have no doubt based on his actions that he was providing help over the top, so even if AJ would've beaten his man, he still had another defender to contend with.

I am not a football pro by any stretch of the imagination, but there is no man on earth, qualified or otherwise, that can tell me that AJ was wide open on that play.
At best, he was behind his man/had a step on his man/had his man in his hip pocket, etc... but the corner had help, bottom line.

It was a good read, a good pass, and the best available option on that play.

Period.

michaelm
08-14-2006, 09:32 PM
even his opinion will not make this blasted thread go away.




By now this thread has, for me, evolved into a discussion of DC's play.
I am not addressing my comments toward the original silly question about Sage starting as much as i am trying to give an opinion of the specifics of DC's play.

thunderkyss
08-14-2006, 09:32 PM
As someone else previously mentioned, if Sage Rosenfelts is this team's starting QB for anything more than a handful of games, be prepared to be in the running for Adrian Peterson, Brian Brohm or Brady Quinn.

I'd be a lot more optimistic if we were talking about a guy who backed up McNabb, Brady, Manning or Hasselbeck, but when you take in to account the fact that Rosenfelts has spent his last two seasons backing up AJ Feely and Gus Ferrotte, it doesn't really bode too well for your cause.


ouch........ good point.

Texan Asylum
08-14-2006, 09:38 PM
As someone else previously mentioned, if Sage Rosenfelts is this team's starting QB for anything more than a handful of games, be prepared to be in the running for Adrian Peterson, Brian Brohm or Brady Quinn.

I'd be a lot more optimistic if we were talking about a guy who backed up McNabb, Brady, Manning or Hasselbeck, but when you take in to account the fact that Rosenfelts has spent his last two seasons backing up AJ Feely and Gus Ferrotte, it doesn't really bode too well for your cause.
Truthfully, never even heard of him till we got him...

BradK10
08-14-2006, 09:46 PM
As someone else previously mentioned, if Sage Rosenfelts is this team's starting QB for anything more than a handful of games, be prepared to be in the running for Adrian Peterson, Brian Brohm or Brady Quinn.

I'd be a lot more optimistic if we were talking about a guy who backed up McNabb, Brady, Manning or Hasselbeck, but when you take in to account the fact that Rosenfelts has spent his last two seasons backing up AJ Feely and Gus Ferrotte, it doesn't really bode too well for your cause.

Thank you for reinforcing my point. He's not even glorifying a Training Camp Hero as much as he's just hatin' on DC.

Hell even some Dolphins fan said Rosenfels does this every year, lights it up in training camp.

BigDTexansFan
08-14-2006, 09:50 PM
I watched the game.

so did I, whats your point....you know I love 20-somethings who know so much about so little reminds me of some really obnoxious people I don't like

TK_Gamer
08-14-2006, 10:04 PM
it just swt, he thought all his dreams would come true when they picked Vince no.1 but they didnt and he cant stand having to watch Carr another year, possibly 3. he's consistently trying to conVINCE everyone we should start anyone but Carr. :stirpot:

oh wait thats SWT's moniker, sorry dude :sarcasm:

Crank_It_Up
08-14-2006, 10:54 PM
For all of the people who have been slamming me when I said we should start rosenfels over carr, now do you at least admit it should merit consideration?? One Qb looked poised, made good reads and throws, and ran the offense crisply, and the other looked nervous, flustered, made bad throws, locked onto his primary target, and didnt run the offense well. Rosenfels should at LEAST be starting a preseason game, if not hop Carr on the depth chart.Rosenfels played well, but then he hasn't been the tackling dummy for the NFL for the past 2 seasons either... could rosenfels have taken the same punishment for 2 seasons and still play well, or even play at all? As I said before, Carr was not ruined overnight, and he won't be cured overnight, but after the punishment he has endured, he has more than earned the right to try.

I hope Rosenfels continues to play well, and gets a lot of playing time in the preseason. It does 4 things... removes any doubt that Carr might have about his team, sharpens Rosenfels game, helps Carr avoid injury, and gives some healthy competition to DC.

skillz24
08-15-2006, 12:46 AM
So again I beg the question...why would anybody have a problem with rosenfels starting against the first team next preseason game. What could it hurt?

i thought we were trying to avoid another 2-14 season and not be the trailer trash of the nfl...thats why!!!