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View Full Version : 3-4 scheme a dream!


pittbull
09-12-2004, 04:12 PM
Sorry folks for the early rant, but either the 3-4 has to go or they have to find a defensive coordinator that will run it the right way! YES, I know we can not turn the ball over as many times as we did, but we also have to cause something on the defensive side of the ball! How many third down conversions did the Chargers have? Not the Patriots, Not the Eagles, Not the Colts, but the Chargers? Not only conversions, but for long yards! This team has to blitz the QB more and place pressure on the QB! Mark my words, the Chargers will not win more than 3 more games this season, due to the SMART D-Coordinators realizing that pressure is the key to breaking down an offense, not relying on a defense that is just getting back together after being destoryed by injury a year ago, and two rookies! Either switch to a scheme that will alow you to place more pressure on the QB, or fire the Coordinator! With a game plan like this, get ready for a long, hot, loosing season in Houston! :headbang:

Reddevil63
09-12-2004, 04:14 PM
Hate to say it but you have a point. Something has to be done about the lack of pressure on the opposing QB.

texan279
09-12-2004, 04:15 PM
Too much conservative play calling on offense and defense.

Scooter
09-12-2004, 04:19 PM
i couldnt agree more. we dont have any pass rush, and IMO it's due to not sending enough rushers. 4 men usually arent going to get it done. it's obvious that the olb that isnt on a te is going to rush and the other will watch. the 3-4 is meant to confuse qb's with that many men in the back able to either rush or drop back. it does no good if everyone drops back. either we send 4 certified linemen as per the 4-3 or we utilize the 3-4 by mixing up our schemes. i never saw sharper or foreman blitz, did yall? wong got a couple calls but that's expected and if their left guard was 1/2 a step quicker we would've gone the entire game relying on robaire's solitary rushing ability.

blitz somebody! hit somebody! there's not an offense in football that is afraid of the texans and we're to blame for that.

BuffSoldier
09-12-2004, 04:21 PM
Firstly DOm Capers has complete control over the scheme the defense runs and secondly I think you have to look at the personel we have. We have great D-lineman and pretty good LBs. I think that the secondary only has one very good player, as it did last year. Dunta is a rook and he will come along, but he played questionably today, with the trip and the penalties, I had my doubts on Marcus Coleman making the switch to FS and he really didnt show me anything today. But the person I was most worried about proved his worth today. SS Eric Brown had a horrible game in my opinion, not being able to contain a the TE and vertualy being demolished by the guy.


Oh and the pass rush is bad, but thats the only thing I place on the coordinator. Too conservative in his blitzing, not really bringing enough players on the blitz.

texan279
09-12-2004, 04:24 PM
Eric Brown did look pretty bad today.

Keldar
09-12-2004, 04:31 PM
blitz somebody! hit somebody! there's not an offense in football that is afraid of the texans and we're to blame for that.

We couldn't buy a sack today. Wong got ONE.......WHOOPEEEE!!!!!!!!!

Arm tackling does not work. I have never seen so much hand slappin'. Guys like Tomlinson and Edgerrin James just skip and hop along like mutant rabbits up the field through our defense.

Eric Brown can't keep up with a guy twice his size and probably much slower.

The supposed weak offensive line of San Diego, that you message board experts told us about, looked pretty doggone good today!!!!!!!! :thumbdown

Scooter
09-12-2004, 04:44 PM
LT did NOT skip through our offense today, we got beat by the passing game. i didnt see many arm tackles and i think joe texan could've been a wr threat the way penalties were called on robinson today. if that 40 yard touching call is a penalty, we are in a LOT of trouble this season.

eric brown did look bad, but he was out of place. i want babin or wong slamming him at the LOS and ending it there. gates was never touched by a lb, either at the line or in coverage.

our big problem is pass rush, and i think it's quickly becoming obvious that it's not necessarily personel, it's system. babin did his job very well today, getting close to the qb and making plays in the backfield, but didnt have time to get to the qb. we were missing payne which hurt quite a bit but isnt an excuse. we HAVE to send more rushers occasionally. we HAVE to scare the opposing qb's. manning is the only qb in the league that i've seen that's afraid of 9 men in the backfield, for everyone else we need to send atleast 7 on occassion and hurt someone in the process. hit em! this is football, i wanna see the whites of the opposing qb's eyes as he gets pummeled by a backside rush.

geekster
09-12-2004, 05:08 PM
The 3-4 "vanilla" defence is no good unless you are gonna USE the flexibility it gives ya to create confusion and pressure on the QB. Playing a "conservative" 3-4 is playing to lose - not to win. If the DC want's to keep his job, he is going to have to show a bit of testosterone and turn those dogs loose so they can hunt! Keep tying them to the portch and they will be guarding your retirement home.

SDBoltz
09-12-2004, 05:20 PM
:headbang: oh boy are you guys in a state of dissaray or what
we look to go 2-0 in our home opener against the jets. go bolts :headbang:

RTP2110
09-12-2004, 05:25 PM
If they're not going to get a pass rush, they better get som Safeties and LB wo can really cover. If SD put up 27 on us, what is KC gonna get, 42 again? What about MIN, or IND?? Something needs to be done.

SDBoltz
09-12-2004, 05:28 PM
:popcorn: chargers were the highest scoring team in the pre season leader of turnovers in pre season and sack leader so hey maybe pre season does mean a thing or 2. regardless if it does or doesnt the 27-20 score today means you lost and we win :cool: :headbang:

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
09-12-2004, 05:31 PM
preseason means nothing. the bengals had the #1 run D in the preseason and got trampled by Curtis Martin today.

Porky
09-12-2004, 05:37 PM
It's a combination of things for sure, but clearly, there was a lack of aggressiveness today on both sides of the ball. San Diego dictated the action, and we waited for their move. Regardless of the turnovers, which was reason #1 for losing this game, this has to change, or we will be a 5 win team again. Capers has to turn the hounds loose on both sides of the ball, and start making the oppenent react to the Texans instead of vice versa. In addition, the Chargers braintrust made some good ingame adjustments. I saw no significant adjustments by the Texans. Hopefully, things will improve, or the coaches will have to pay the piper at years end. Based on talent, this should be a 7 or 8 win team. Unless we have a rash of injuries, anything less will be a disapointment, and will call into question the schemes and game plans.

Wolf
09-12-2004, 05:45 PM
exactly Porky. I was suprised by our defense. I don't know if we over compensated for LT or what, but they dictated (s.D.) to us what we did. Penalties held them back on the offensive side of the ball and for a while there I didn't think g-funk was even in the game. They did a good job.

Babins showed me some stuff but overall it was really a downer about our defense.

ArlingtonTexan
09-12-2004, 06:01 PM
since both the Patriots and Ravens run the 3-4, and ironically have won 3 out of the last 4 Superbowls, I am going to assume there is nothing wrong with 3-4.

San Diego exploited Eric Brown's know weakness in coverage with a physically talented TE. it is the job of the DC and Capers to figure something out to cover up that weakness, but even late when then needed a play they were able to find Gates.

A large part of the offense this year will be to keep the defense off the field and with 4 turnovers, they did not do that.

pittbull
09-12-2004, 07:22 PM
Your exactly right, there is nothing wrong withthe 3-4 defense, if you allow guys to go out and make plays! Pats continue to embarass the league, the Steelers prosper, and the Ravens will bounce back, but you have to be aggressive. It looked like Fangio and Capers decided to allow LT to come to them, rather than dictate the tempo of the game, and take the game to them!. Needless to say, the tempo went the wrong direction. Some of Eric Brown's plays were bad, but he, along with no one in the league could cover Fat Albert for as long as Drew Brees had time to throw! :headbang:

Hervoyel
09-12-2004, 08:44 PM
The defense is going to be an issue this season but it's not the fact that we're running a 3-4. It's a number of factors that include the following:

Seth Payne, coming back and getting back to form (DeLoach may be filling in admirably for Seth but he's not Seth. He's never going to be Seth)

Gary Walker getting back into the groove. A much smaller step up for Gary than Seth but he still missed significant time last season.

Robaire Smith getting fully integrated into what we're doing and in sync with the rest of the defensive line.

Starting a new rookie linebacker (Babbin) who's learning a new position

Starting a new rookie cornerback (Robinson) who's not learning a new position but who can single handedly give up a score when he makes a mistake.

Starting Marcus Coleman at Safety. Not a rookie but a new position.

All of these things are going to take a few games (at least) to get worked out. Remember that whole "gel" thing? They need to and until they do they aren't going to be playing well. At times they'll play great and at other times they'll blow it. Come week 8 or 9 when the defense is really on the same page without thinking about what they're doing many who are worried about whether or not the 3-4 is viable will be talking about how they're finally playing it like it's meant to be played. As if this is a result of the way the Texans are trying to play the 3-4 and not a result of the changes they've made to the personnel.

SDBoltz
09-12-2004, 09:30 PM
You Gotta Realize While You Guys Are Hearing How Your A Team On The Rise And Possibly Can Make The Playoffs And Blowing Up Your Ego Talking About You Have A Triplets Like The Cowboys Or Colts...when These Guys Are Proven And Potential Hall Of Famers. You Got Caught Up In The Hype And A Team That Has Been Getting Nothing But Disrespect And A Bunch Of **** Talked About Them And Has Just Been Feeding The Fuel To The Fire. We Were Amped Up And Had Something To Prove. You Expected To Win Relatively Easily. While We Came To The Game For A Fight. We Brought A Fight To You Went The Distance And Ko'd You In The 12th. It Was A Good Game But You Guys Have Got To Get More Aggressive. You Were Too Wrapped Up In Bs Stats And Novelties Like You Have Never Lost On Opening Day... So What It Was Bound To Happen... If That's The Case We Have The Coach With The Best Win Percentage On Opening Day And That Made The Difference... Not!

Hervoyel
09-12-2004, 09:38 PM
Stop making stupid excuses man!!!!! SD had more fire than our team. How the &*^% does that happen when we are suppose to be the team on the rise!?
I do not where we go from here. The competition will get harder.

Which one of the things I pointed out is not a fact? If they are all facts (and I am certain that they are) then failing to see that these things will have an effect on a defenses (or an offenses) performance is simply stupid.

In the year that the Oilers began running the 46 defense they were sporting a number of quality veteran defenders. They added one linebacker who had not played with them before (but who was well versed in the 46 defense) and their defense looked terrible for the first quarter of the season. It didn't really begin to produce the kind of results they wanted to see until the second half of the season. Making changes or enduring changes in your scheme or personnel results in a period of adjustment. It's a fact of life, not an excuse.

I've never made a "stupid excuse" for the Texans. I've never had to.

Vinny
09-12-2004, 09:50 PM
We lost not because of personel, but we simply got out played!

The fact that we got "out played" by the worst team in football means that we are THE WORST TEAM IN FOOTBALL! NO EXCUSES! If there is pride in this team, we will come out and maul Detroit next week.
Is everything ok? We lost a football game. Big whoop. Get over it. We are going to lose about 8 more or so this year. It's not the end of the world...and yes, we are not one of the better teams in the NFL despite what you read on this board.

Hervoyel
09-12-2004, 09:56 PM
I think you're putting a little too much stock in that "worst team in football" tag. Before 2003 that was hung on the Bengals and they thumped us in 2002. The difference between the best and the worst of the NFL is much smaller than you might think.

I was simply addressing the question of why our defense isn't the aggressive death dealing monster that some people feel it should be. It looked pretty good in 2002, suffered losses and showed how thin it was in 2003, and now it's been tinkered with to address that situation in 2004. Give it the first 4 weeks of the season and when we've wrapped that up see if you think any progress has been made on this side of the ball.

Why we lost the game was a completely different question. My answer to that would be that the Chargers took advantage of a pair of costly fumbles and a couple of interceptions. They got 14 points off of turnovers (and could have had more) while we were shorted 4 potential scoring opportunities. Simple as that. Our players didn't do their jobs on the offensive side of the ball consistently enough to win.

Chance_C
09-12-2004, 10:05 PM
SS Eric Brown had a horrible game in my opinion, not being able to contain a the TE and vertualy being demolished by the guy

Eric Brown's strength is controlling the run. He got torched because the Bolts knew this. He will bite on the play fake more often than not. Gates is also a very impressive tight end.

rittenhouserobz
09-13-2004, 07:26 AM
I say settle down. The OL is still settling into the new zone blocking. The defense is stilling gelling. Starting two rookies can have an affect. I am still optomisitc about this season. By week 6 If we can salvage 2 or 3 wins then we will be in good shape. That is my prediction.

TheOgre
09-13-2004, 07:50 AM
Eric Brown did look pretty bad today.

The team is already aware of that. Why do you think we drafted Earl in the 4th? Brown is good against the run but is a liability in coverage. Personally I'd like to see McCree moved to SS and see what he can do.

SESupergenius
09-13-2004, 02:43 PM
We didn't get pressure in the 2nd half, the first half we gave them some decent pressure and allowed 13 points. You can't help it when a rookie falls down and they get a TD, a 3-4, 4-3, 5-2, 6-1 scheme won't help you one bit if that happens. We got no safety play . Parker should have been covered by Brown and one of the LB's on Gates.

TheOgre
09-13-2004, 02:52 PM
Speaking of schemes.... I forgot who said this, but someone recently said there was a Hall of Fame coach that used to run a 4-4-4 defense in certain situations. The coach knew it was illegal but risked it to have another player on the field. I just thought it was hilarious when I heard this.

TexansTrueFan
09-13-2004, 02:52 PM
Sorry folks for the early rant, but either the 3-4 has to go or they have to find a defensive coordinator that will run it the right way! YES, I know we can not turn the ball over as many times as we did, but we also have to cause something on the defensive side of the ball! How many third down conversions did the Chargers have? Not the Patriots, Not the Eagles, Not the Colts, but the Chargers? Not only conversions, but for long yards! This team has to blitz the QB more and place pressure on the QB! Mark my words, the Chargers will not win more than 3 more games this season, due to the SMART D-Coordinators realizing that pressure is the key to breaking down an offense, not relying on a defense that is just getting back together after being destoryed by injury a year ago, and two rookies! Either switch to a scheme that will alow you to place more pressure on the QB, or fire the Coordinator! With a game plan like this, get ready for a long, hot, loosing season in Houston! :headbang:

Ok let me get this we have pretty much the same defense we had in 2002 back and all the players healthy now and you say 3-4 isnt working ???? We beat the steelers what 21 to 6 or something like that and you wanna talk about the 3-4 isnt working ok man,,,,almost all the starters were hurt last season give them a lil chance to get back into the speed of the game. Well i guess the pats shoulda fired all their coordinator after there opening loss to buffalo 31-0 last season huh,,,oh but didnt they do just fine the rest of the year ???? MAN IT WAS JUST ONE GAME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SESupergenius
09-13-2004, 02:56 PM
That's exactly it, it shouldn't be a big surprise. I tried to tell people that this defense is pretty young, and it showed. They were all out of synch all day. It takes time for a team gel together. I actually think this is good for our defense to get beat this first game because we can then take more time to fix the problems. We should be more prepared and playing together these next few games.

TexansTrueFan
09-13-2004, 03:01 PM
That's exactly it, it shouldn't be a big surprise. I tried to tell people that this defense is pretty young, and it showed. They were all out of synch all day. It takes time for a team gel together. I actually think this is good for our defense to get beat this first game because we can then take more time to fix the problems. We should be more prepared and playing together these next few games.

I agree i just hate it how people wanna count out the D because of one bad game ,,,,when some of the players havent played in a whole year ! The D will be good ,,,babin looked sharp and i think Dunta did good for the most part.