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View Full Version : Turnovers . . . Turnovers . . . Turnovers


Marcus
09-12-2004, 04:15 PM
That's all you're going to hear Dom Caoers talk about. And that's all he should be talking about.

It doesn't matter how good Davis ran the ball, how good Carr threw, or how good Babin played. If you lose the turnover battle, that's it.

TexanExile
09-12-2004, 04:32 PM
Domanick Davis should be very pleased with the way he's running, but he can't be a star in this league if he's going to cough up the ball twice against the freaking Chargers.

I think this was an aberration, but if not, this will be a very long season.

Fiddy
09-12-2004, 04:36 PM
This love affair with DD better stop this week. You cant fumble, especially at the end of the game when you are trailing. Hollings was ripped when he fumbled twice in a PRESEASON game, DD better get more critisim then Hollings did.

FatBoyTim
09-12-2004, 04:36 PM
small backs sometimes put it on the ground. The worse news is that the texans got toasted threw the air by a guy who wont be starting in several weeks

edo783
09-12-2004, 04:37 PM
Just a bad day. Previously it was something like 230+ carries per fumble.

CaliforniaTexan
09-12-2004, 04:40 PM
Lets hope next week works out better... :dontknowa

texans
09-12-2004, 04:41 PM
i think we should start tony next week to show domanick how serious those two fumbles were they prety much lost us the game

TexanExile
09-12-2004, 04:45 PM
Interesting point. What happened to Stacey Mack after he fumbled twice? An NFL Rookie of the Year was born.

axman40
09-12-2004, 05:04 PM
I hate TURNOVERS......Turnovers ....Turnover.....Turnovers! :mad:

Reddevil63
09-12-2004, 05:08 PM
Interesting point. What happened to Stacey Mack after he fumbled twice? An NFL Rookie of the Year was born.
I cant say he will be benched but they should be running some serious wind sprints monday lol

TheOgre
09-12-2004, 05:18 PM
The turnovers killed us. That was unexpected. We need to nip that in the bud.

I'm more concerned about our lack of a pass-rush. Babin was nice against the run but where was he on passing downs? We have a rookie cornerback that will get lit up if we don't locate a player who can actually get to the QB.

Robinson was tooled in this game but isn't that to be expected of a rookie CB? I still point to next season as our breakout year.

Hervoyel
09-12-2004, 07:49 PM
i think we should start tony next week to show domanick how serious those two fumbles were they prety much lost us the game

I don't know if that's such a good idea. The team's a completely different animal when Davis is in. Tony seems to lack the ability to create anything during the play. No cutbacks and no slipping through little cracks that don't even look like they're there. It's probably just the difference between someone who's been a running back for a long time and another guy who's spent too little time at the position but Davis is our best back. That's very obvious.

I think it was an abberation and Capers will get it ironed out this week.

texan77
09-12-2004, 07:57 PM
Hey, everybody has a bad day. Let's just hope that this will be the only bad day from the AFC rookie of the year. I really don't think this is going to be a problem with D.D.
The offense looked good. The defense was o.k. Comparing the team today with the team two years ago? Give me todays team.

This is just week 1. After week 7, if we're 1-6, then let's worry.

Oilers/Texans
09-12-2004, 08:11 PM
Somebody said something about needing to put Domanick on the bench??? That is a very bad idea. What the Texans need to do is keep getting the ball into the hands of Davis. He will be just fine.

NoBullTexan
09-12-2004, 08:22 PM
Turnovers aside, the difference in the game was the excellent pass rush by the Chargers and the absolute opposite from the Texans. They were hurrying David all day long, whereas Breezy had all day to pick a receiver who usually turned out to be a TE named named Gates (124 yds). UUGGLY! :thumbdown

Blake
09-12-2004, 08:27 PM
I still wanted to see the Texans air the ball out more. It seems that after halftime, they hardly threw the ball.

But turnovers are the name of this game. We are minus 4 now? Im suprised we didnt get beat by more than 7. 4 turnovers! That is outrageous.

Vinny
09-12-2004, 08:29 PM
I still wanted to see the Texans air the ball out more. It seems that after halftime, they hardly threw the ball. Davis only had 10 runs after halftime. You prefer we run less?

texasguy346
09-12-2004, 08:34 PM
Turnovers were a big reason we lost the game, but the defense didn't help much either. We didn't get the consistent performance out of them, but I guess that is to be expected with two rookies starting. Babin looked much better than in the preseason, and Robinson had a few rookie mistakes. All in all we need to bring a more consistent defensive performance into the Detroit game. The offense can help that by not turning the ball over, and staying on the field to give the D a rest. Detroit will likely be without Charles Rogers and perhaps even Dre Bly, but we'll need to get pressure on Harrington if we want to get a win at Ford Field. I am sure the Texans will respond after a loss like they always do, but I just wish that they would've responded that way in today's game.

Fiddy
09-12-2004, 08:40 PM
Hey, everybody has a bad day.You guys didnt have this attitude towards Hollings after his 2 fumble performance against the Cowboys. Some of you guys said something around the lines of "Hollings better learn how to hold onto the ball or he wont be on a team" and "Hollings will find himself on the bench if he continues to fumble."

Why does DD get a pass???

New season, you have to forget what a player did last season. Jamal Lewis only got 17% of what he got last year in his first meeting with the Brwons. New season, new circumstances, new oppenents, new slate...

Lucky
09-12-2004, 09:59 PM
New season, you have to forget what a player did last season. Jamal Lewis only got 17% of what he got last year in his first meeting with the Brwons. New season, new circumstances, new oppenents, new slate...
Come on Fiddy, do you think the Ravens will "forget" what Jamal Lewis did for them last year? Of course it helps when you're running behind a guy like Jonathan Ogden. What a big difference he makes.

Davis won't get a free pass from the coaching staff. But, he'll get the opportunity to correct his mistakes because he has performed in the past. I would like to have seen Hollings get more than 4 touches (the "Jarrod Baxter Drive" puzzled me), but there weren't a lot of touches to go around in the 2nd half. The Texans ran only 9 plays from scrimmage in the 4th quarter. Trust me that be it through injury or performance, Hollings will get his chance at some point this season.

Fiddy
09-12-2004, 10:09 PM
Come on Fiddy, do you think the Ravens will "forget" what Jamal Lewis did for them last year? Of course it helps when you're running behind a guy like Jonathan Ogden. What a big difference he makes.They wont forget but his 2000 yard season has no meaning to the Ravens this year, like DD's ROY season has no meaning to the Texans this year. You have to perform this year...

'forget' was probably the wrong word for what I was trying to get across...

jhawktx
09-12-2004, 10:13 PM
Were in trouble! The defense cant stop ****! Brees got perfect pocket 90% of the time. We are so in deep trouble!

Maybe all those homers who were predicting we would make the playoffs can enlighten us as to what went wrong. Settling for field goals in the red zone was a problem again today as it has been for some time now.

Vinny
09-13-2004, 12:03 AM
Here are our 4th quarter possessions. Throw out the TD drive and we are pretty much 3 and out. On the only decent drive (Touchdown) we had we ran the ball and that is what you are complaining about.

Houston Texans at 13:25
1-10-HST 29 (13:25) 37-D.Davis right tackle ran ob at HST 31 for 2 yards (48-T.Kiel).
2-8-HST 31 (12:42) 8-D.Carr pass to 86-J.Gaffney pushed ob at HST 40 for 9 yards (48-T.Kiel). (1 yard after catch.) P15
1-10-HST 40 (12:18) 37-D.Davis left guard to HST 44 for 4 yards (59-D.Edwards).
2-6-HST 44 (11:37) 8-D.Carr pass intended for 80-A.Johnson INTERCEPTED by 53-S.Foley (59-D.Edwards) at HST 49. 53-S.Foley to HST 49 for no gain (78-S.Wand).


Houston Texans at 9:12, (1st play from scrimmage 9:02)
1-10-HST 48 (9:02) 37-D.Davis right guard to HST 49 for 1 yard (95-S.Phillips).
2-9-HST 49 (8:24) 8-D.Carr pass to 85-C.Bradford to SD 47 for 4 yards (48-T.Kiel, 22-S.Davis).
3-5-SD 47 (7:41) (Shotgun) 8-D.Carr pass to 80-A.Johnson to SD 35 for 12 yards (22-S.Davis, 59-D.Edwards). P16
PENALTY on SD-20-J.Wilson, Personal Foul, 15 yards, enforced at SD 35. X17
1-10-SD 20 (7:15) 8-D.Carr pass to 87-M.Bruener to SD 13 for 7 yards (48-T.Kiel, 58-R.Godfrey). (7 yards after catch.)
2-3-SD 13 (6:42) 37-D.Davis left guard to SD 3 for 10 yards (23-Q.Jammer, 22-S.Davis). R18
1-3-SD 3 (6:01) 37-D.Davis left guard to SD 1 for 2 yards (57-Z.Moreno).
2-1-SD 1 (5:21) 37-D.Davis up the middle to SD 1 for no gain (57-Z.Moreno).
3-1-SD 1 (4:36) 37-D.Davis left guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN. R19
3-K.Brown extra point is GOOD, Center-48-B.Pittman, Holder-7-C.Stanley.


Houston Texans at 15:00, (1st play from scrimmage 14:53)
1-10-HST 33 (14:53) 37-D.Davis right guard to HST 35 for 2 yards (58-R.Godfrey).
2-8-HST 35 (14:14) 8-D.Carr sacked at HST 32 for -3 yards (48-T.Kiel).
3-11-HST 32 (13:42) (Shotgun) 8-D.Carr left tackle to HST 35 for 3 yards (53-S.Foley).
4-8-HST 35 (12:58) 7-C.Stanley punts 39 yards to SD 26, Center-48-B.Pittman, downed by HST-33-J.Bell.
PENALTY on HST-33-J.Bell, Interference with Opportunity to Catch, 15 yards, enforced at SD 26. (Punt hang time 4.8 seconds.)


Houston Texans at 8:34, (1st play from scrimmage 8:28)
1-10-HST 40 (8:28) 8-D.Carr pass to 47-J.Baxter to HST 43 for 3 yards (51-B.Leber).
2-7-HST 43 (7:57) 47-J.Baxter to HST 43 for no gain (99-I.Olshansky; 58-R.Godfrey).
Penalty on HST, Illegal Procedure, declined.
3-7-HST 43 (7:36) (Shotgun) 8-D.Carr sacked at HST 43 for 0 yards (95-S.Phillips).
4-7-HST 43 (6:51) 7-C.Stanley punts 53 yards to SD 4, Center-48-B.Pittman. 88-E.Parker to SD 17 for 13 yards (51-D.Polk, 32-J.Wells). (Punt hang time 4.9 seconds.)


Houston Texans at 4:41
1-10-SD 34 (4:41) 37-D.Davis up the middle to SD 25 for 9 yards (99-I.Olshansky, 20-J.Wilson).
2-1-SD 25 (4:02) 8-D.Carr pass to 85-C.Bradford ran ob at SD 17 for 8 yards (23-Q.Jammer). (1 yard after catch.) P20
1-10-SD 17 (3:57) 37-D.Davis up the middle to SD 14 for 3 yards (58-R.Godfrey). FUMBLES (58-R.Godfrey), RECOVERED by SD-53-S.Foley at SD 14. 53-S.Foley to SD 14 for no gain (37-D.Davis).

done88
09-13-2004, 12:21 AM
Davis should not start the next game. Make him realize you don't protect the ball you don't play

TexanExile
09-13-2004, 12:19 PM
Fiddy, you're right. Since David Carr turned over the ball twice too, we should bench him for Tony Banks immediately, right? This love affair with David Carr must stop. :hehe:

Domanick Davis fumbled twice and this HAS to be acknowledged. BUT, when you're the star of the offense (which he IS, until David Carr throws more TDs than INTs), the staff has to have a certain amount of faith that you'll be back to normal the next week. I think he will be, but I also would rather see Hollings getting a "dedicated drive" instead of the backup fullback. It's exciting to think about what Hollings could've done with some of the holes opened up by the O-line yesterday.

Another thing: Davis scored 2 rushing TDs and Tomlinson scored 1. Tomlinson averaged 4.7, Davis averaged 4.1. A guy who's maybe the best RB in the NFL today only outrushed Davis by 34 yards, DESPITE the Texans failing to get the rock to him in the second half.

Davis' fumbles and Carr's INTs were the main reason we lost the game, but that was some SAD secondary play out there against a no-name SD receiving corps.

SBTexans08
09-13-2004, 12:36 PM
We need to play as we did in yesterdays game next week vs the Lions with a few deep throws, a pass rush, some blitzes mixed in minus the turnovers and we have a 1-1 by week 2 in the season.

blockhead83
09-13-2004, 12:43 PM
This love affair with DD better stop this week. You cant fumble, especially at the end of the game when you are trailing. Hollings was ripped when he fumbled twice in a PRESEASON game, DD better get more critisim then Hollings did.

I was one of those who criticized Hollings in the preseason for his two fumbles. I'm critical of Davis as well, he had a bad game. When you put the ball on the ground twice, once in a game-deciding situation, you had a bad game. On the other hand I don't want to see DD benched after one bad performance. He has more leeway than Hollings. When you average roughly 2 YPC you damn well better not fumble, otherwise we may as well just pound the ball with a fullback. Davis needs to get this fixed for next week, but despite the fumbles he is definitely what the doctor ordered for the Texans running game.

jacquescas
09-13-2004, 12:48 PM
Focus....

Perspective... we are a 3rd year franchise that started 0-1.

change nothing, just work on the mistakes...

DD doesn't fumble and we are still in the game...

1 of Carr's INTs at the end of the half didn't have an effect on the game, minus us getting in range to attempt a field goal.

The second was a bit of luck with the ball bouncing off the helmet. He threw a great game and was around 70%.

Davis had over 140 total yds and 2 TDs

and we came out of the game with no injuries (although Kris Brown sure scared me)



The only thing i would like to see is Carr air it out a couple of times.... see if we can find AJ deep. or Bradford who is in a contract year so he is gonna be working hard.

Mr. Old School
09-13-2004, 12:58 PM
We need to cut DD some slack. Sure he messed up as well as others. You don't bench him. He's hurting more than anyone. There's enough blame to go around. What about our franchise QB? He knows he has to do a better job next Sunday in Detroit. He was out QB'd by a so-so QB...zero TD passes and 2 pix. Texans Defense needs to step up...I didn't see any serious blitzing. Cool Breeze had all afternoon to throw. Babin looked very good for a rook. Capers is chewing on them :headbang: this morning. We need to get over this, correct our mistakes, and go after the Lions.

Texansbacker
09-13-2004, 01:00 PM
DD looked good running the ball and he will correct the fumbles which by his own account were due to his pressing and probably due to the lack of touches in the preseason.

My guess is the entire Texan team will be much more focused this week and we might just catch a Detroit team fat and happy off their first road win expecting to roll over the expansion Texans who couldn't beat the lowly Chargers at their own house.

The Texans were neither dominated nor dominating this week. They should however make large strides each week as our offensive and defensive linemen learn a new system and each other, our stars on offense hang onto the ball (if we have only two turnovers instead of 4 we win the game), and finally, when our coaches do a better job utilizing their available talent (no need to rely on Baxter coach with your other available options).

vbolt
09-13-2004, 01:08 PM
That's all Schottenheimer preached to the Bolts during the offseason, and that is what Wade Phillips has been teaching the Defense. As fans, we got tired of hearing it, but after yesterday's game we see why. Brees got benched because of turnovers last year and he obviously learned from it.

Always good to read a football message board out of Texas, where folks know football!

Best of luck through the season.

A Chargers fan.

TheOgre
09-13-2004, 01:18 PM
Here are our 4th quarter possessions. Throw out the TD drive and we are pretty much 3 and out. On the only decent drive (Touchdown) we had we ran the ball and that is what you are complaining about.
[see Vinny's post for breakdown of drives]

We definitely did better when we ran the ball and peppered in a few play-action passes. If you look at the 4 non-scoring possessions what killed them? We had two promising possessions ended on turnovers and we had two others that were hindered by giving up sacks. Rather than "3 and out" it seemed like "2 and kick ourselves in the nuts".

DP TEXAN FAN
09-13-2004, 03:22 PM
I think dd should still start next week, he is going to make up for it!!WHERE IS THE PASS RUSH??WE NEED TO GET TO THE QUARTERBACK OR IT IS GOING TO BE A LONG SEASON. idonno:

SBTexans08
09-13-2004, 03:31 PM
....a veeeeeeery long season!! eek:

Fiddy
09-13-2004, 04:29 PM
Fiddy, you're right. Since David Carr turned over the ball twice too, we should bench him for Tony Banks immediately, right? This love affair with David Carr must stop. :hehe:

Domanick Davis fumbled twice and this HAS to be acknowledged. BUT, when you're the star of the offense (which he IS, until David Carr throws more TDs than INTs), the staff has to have a certain amount of faith that you'll be back to normal the next week. I think he will be, but I also would rather see Hollings getting a "dedicated drive" instead of the backup fullback. It's exciting to think about what Hollings could've done with some of the holes opened up by the O-line yesterday.

Another thing: Davis scored 2 rushing TDs and Tomlinson scored 1. Tomlinson averaged 4.7, Davis averaged 4.1. A guy who's maybe the best RB in the NFL today only outrushed Davis by 34 yards, DESPITE the Texans failing to get the rock to him in the second half.

Davis' fumbles and Carr's INTs were the main reason we lost the game, but that was some SAD secondary play out there against a no-name SD receiving corps.Well the difference is one of Carr's INT was a fluke play that you wont see the rest of the season. He could have read the coverage better on the one before half. Davis fumbled once that set up points for the Chargers and fumbled away the game at the end. And i dont think I ever said bench him....

I still think the AJ is the star of the offense because teams will allow DD to beat them, the wont let AJ...

Davis might have scored 2 TDs but one was set up by Hollings when he took that screen pass to the 2 yard line and the other was set up by a personal foul by one of the corners and a nice catch by Bruener. IMO, setting up the TD is just as important as scoring it...

A reason why LT only got 34 more yards than DD was because everybody on the Texans defense was worried about LT and were focused on stopping LT. The Chargers defense wanted to stop the WRs, thats why we could never go deep. The Chargers were focused on AJ, Gaff, and Bradford. The Chargers werent going to let our WRs beat them, they said "DD is going to have to carry you guys because we wont let your WRs kill us"

TexanExile
09-14-2004, 12:25 PM
Well the difference is one of Carr's INT was a fluke play that you wont see the rest of the season. He could have read the coverage better on the one before half. Davis fumbled once that set up points for the Chargers and fumbled away the game at the end. And i dont think I ever said bench him....

I still think the AJ is the star of the offense because teams will allow DD to beat them, the wont let AJ...


I think we agree on most everything there, except a couple of things...

A quick look at last season's stats tells us that DD only put the ball on the ground three times in 288 touches. Doesn't that make the case that DD's two fumbles were flukes too? I'm not worried. (But you're right when you say he fumbled away the game. No doubt.)

And as a matter of personal opinion, AJ is not the star of this offense right now. Davis is the Texans' leading rusher AND leading receiver. The star's pretty obvious. Now by week 3 or so, I pray that our leading receiver isn't our freaking RUNNING BACK...and that AJ's getting the touches he deserves.

AJ needs to get the ball. But I'm not going to be upset with Carr getting the ball to 7 different receivers, like last Sunday. That's very cool and speaks well of this offense. But it SURE will be nice when AJ can beat some double-teams and get some 100+ yard receiving games.

Fiddy
09-14-2004, 06:23 PM
And as a matter of personal opinion, AJ is not the star of this offense right now. Davis is the Texans' leading rusher AND leading receiver. The star's pretty obvious. Now by week 3 or so, I pray that our leading receiver isn't our freaking RUNNING BACK...and that AJ's getting the touches he deserves.The reason why DD was the leading reciever because he was left open in the flat. I heard Dom Capers talk about it on SR610, the Texans called it Charger formation. Charger formation was when they lined up with DD out wide and if no one came down to cover him they would throw it out there. And on one came the first couple of times because the Chargers werent worried about Davis beating them deep, they were worried about AJ. You have to look past the stats to see who is the best offensive player on the team. AJ takes so much pressure off everybody by just being on the field, Davis doesnt get his yards if AJ isnt out there. AJ can get yards without Davis on the field: AJ averaged 6.5 receptions and 86.5 yards per game in the first four games last year with no DD...

99FirehawkTA
09-15-2004, 12:16 PM
in 2003 Domanick Davis fumbled once every 59.5 Carrys.

in game one against the chargers he fumbled once every 10.5 carrys.

Domanick was quoted as saying "I was just trying to do too much, I forgot about the #1 rule, keeping both hands on the ball" or somethgin to that effect.

As far as Carrs turn overs go one of those was pretty much a 30 yard straight up in the air fluke.

I dont expect turn overs to be a problem for us this season. Im confident we can still go 8-8.

Marcus
10-03-2004, 04:26 PM
I had to bring this thread back to life.

Look what happens when the Texans end up on the positve side of the turn over ratio!

Good things happen.