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View Full Version : Turnovers killed us BUT we never challenged SD secondary


BigDTexansFan
09-12-2004, 03:12 PM
We threw more to RB then trying to go deep, so their secondary knowing we weren't going to challenge them could stay at LOS and blitz more...We cost ourselves the game with short passing game and giving away the ball FOUR times...Texans BEAT themselves :thumbdown

ArlingtonTexan
09-12-2004, 03:23 PM
You need your QB to make good decisions and RB to hold on to the ball. Play calling had ZERO to do with this loss.

thetexanator
09-12-2004, 03:27 PM
You need your QB to make good decisions and RB to hold on to the ball. Play calling had ZERO to do with this loss.
i completely agree, it seemed carr started pressing in the second half. he was making such good reads in the first half.

Reddevil63
09-12-2004, 03:31 PM
You need your QB to make good decisions and RB to hold on to the ball. Play calling had ZERO to do with this loss.
Offensive playcalling had a very small part in the loss. I cant believe they didnt test them downfield. However, when its 3rd and long and we rush a nose tackle and the two OLB's even a QB like Drew Brees is going to pick apart a secondary. Its the same problem we had last year.

Jwwillis
09-12-2004, 03:33 PM
OMG If someone is already trying to bag Palmer for this one its got to be personal. We couldnt even beat a little league team with 4 turnovers. There were concerns going into the season with fumbles, now it is a full blown problem. Davis can run for 300yrs a game and not make up for 2 fumbles. Trouble is Hollings may be even worse in this department. Carr didn't air it out enough and when he did it seemed as if he were throwing to the defense not his receivers. I hate to say it but Carr looked average out there.

FatBoyTim
09-12-2004, 03:33 PM
carr has really not grown in reading D's. These turnovers were completely unacceptable. SD has a bad D.

Marcus
09-12-2004, 03:34 PM
Stop with this turnover BUT stuff. If Carr hadn't hadn't gotten picked twice, if DD hadn't have coughed it up twice, it'd be a different story, and you'd be praising everybody.

The turnovers killed us. It's that simple.

Marcus
09-12-2004, 03:36 PM
And what does DD coughing it up have to do with reading defenses?

BuffSoldier
09-12-2004, 03:50 PM
carr has really not grown in reading D's. These turnovers were completely unacceptable. SD has a bad D.

Come on now, did you guys watch the game or just look at the stats, I do say wwe should have thrown deep more but thats what Im not blaming the loss on. We had turnovers, but the only unexeptable ones were the fumbles.


Now with the picks you have to go back and watch the plays over, because Im blame those on the o-line. On the first pick you can see that AJ was open and as Carr cocked his arm to throw, a defensive lineman swatted at the ball causing Carr to pump, and by the time he released the ball the DB had recoverd. Bad play, but I understand what happened. And on the last one you have to say that Carr did absolutely nothing wrong, he stood in the pocket and tryed to deliver a pass, it wasnt his fault that the line let a streaking LB get into lis line of fire. He threw the ball off blitzing LBs helmet.

I think Carr played well, just look at the completion percentage and yardage. he didnt throw the deep ball, but he threw good passes to open receivers and really didnt force anything.

Carr was 19/25 for 76% completions with 229 yards . I think thats pretty good,and without the 2 o-line lapses, he would have had a great game.

FatBoyTim
09-12-2004, 03:52 PM
Stop with this turnover BUT stuff. If Carr hadn't hadn't gotten picked twice, if DD hadn't have coughed it up twice, it'd be a different story, and you'd be praising everybody.

The turnovers killed us. It's that simple.

are you kidding me? IF the queen had balls she'd be king too! That is a freaking joke reply

FatBoyTim
09-12-2004, 03:53 PM
did you see carr last pick? a floater that was in the air for 5 seconds on a deep corner route. that was a bad bad throw into double coverage

nunusguy
09-12-2004, 03:54 PM
The interceptions were both directly related to the SD pass rush. But in general the Offense moved the ball well in the first 3 quarters. Don't know
'bout the last couple drives - maybe Carr was losing his cool, maybe SD is
better in the clutch than people give them credit for - hope so. Course DD fumbling when he did at the end of the game is a killer.
But the big dissapointment is, obviously, the D. Rookie Babin was impressive
but one really has to question the wisdom of starting Robinson in the opener. That's easy to say now, but someone really overrated his readiness.
It's a bummer - I thought we might overcome the turnovers, but we're just not good enought to do that. Back to the drawing board for the Detroit.

SDBoltz
09-12-2004, 03:59 PM
well i'll say this without the turnovers there is no guarantee you would score... you would have had to make a long field goal b4 half. one fumble may have tied the game when it was in the red zone... but what about hte pick we should have had to negate your field goal either way you would have lost by 3. the other turnovers werent even in scoring range. and marty ball is all about holding on to the football pounding the run and taking the football away. we stuck to our game and it worked out just give credit to a team that beat you. good game

SDBoltz
09-12-2004, 04:01 PM
and to me reliant stadium didnt seem that loud i could always hear the referees a couple of flase starts more so of not knowing the count than crowd noise. it was loud of course at times but nothing extrodinary likei n kc or denver

Reddevil63
09-12-2004, 04:02 PM
They werent in scoring range but the way we were moving the ball they COULD have been points. Thats why turnovers are a BAD thing. Following me? People lose games because of turnovers and we had 4. If we had won that game than SD would be in alot of trouble.

BuffSoldier
09-12-2004, 04:04 PM
well i'll say this without the turnovers there is no guarantee you would score... you would have had to make a long field goal b4 half. one fumble may have tied the game when it was in the red zone... but what about hte pick we should have had to negate your field goal either way you would have lost by 3. the other turnovers werent even in scoring range. and marty ball is all about holding on to the football pounding the run and taking the football away. we stuck to our game and it worked out just give credit to a team that beat you. good game


Calm down man, youre getting a little ahead of yourself. Yes the team that played the best won today but I dont think the better team won. If we didnt commit the turnovers the game would have most likely ben the Texans, SD score 14 points off 4 turnovers so even if we didnt score on any of our drives that we turned the ball over on(which we would have because our offense was not being stopped) we still would have had yal by 7.

Scooter
09-12-2004, 04:05 PM
and to me reliant stadium didnt seem that loud i could always hear the referees a couple of flase starts more so of not knowing the count than crowd noise. it was loud of course at times but nothing extrodinary likei n kc or denver

you're watching it on tv. the sound is muffled to make the commentators audible.

vtech9
09-12-2004, 04:17 PM
Turnovers happen...I'm not going to dwell on them. Babin looked good. Robinson got burnt on one big TD, but overall didn't look too bad. Brown's lack of coverage skills showed today, but what really got to me was the lack of sacks. We had very little pressure on Brees the whole game. If Brees was that good against us since he had that much time to throw, imagine what QB's like McNair, Manning, Favre, and even Leftwich could do to us. I sure hope this improves, because if it doesn't, this is going to be a long year.

Ibar_Harry
09-12-2004, 04:28 PM
A week or so ago, I said we would have to out score the other team, because we had a questionable defense this year. I would say that that is the case. We turned the ball over in the 1st year, but we would still stop the other teams. I believe we had one sack and I don't believe Brees was really pressured. There's no question turning the ball over 4 times is bad, but part of that is pressure from a lack of defense in that you press when you really shouldn't. You feel you have to score on every possession, because your defense can't stop the other team. Essentially every time we scored they countered with a score. The last fumble by DD was in a pressure situation. I'm not condoning it, but he's trying to get the extra yards for a 1st down and perhaps breaking it for a TD. We were at the 4 minute mark and down by 7. We had to score or else and the game was on the line. It was that simple. Even if we score SD would have had another opportunity with the ball. When you don't test the secondary, you allow the other team to gang up on you. There's no question that SD was ball hunting in that situation. Too bad, but I really don't see anything different from last year as far as the play calling is concerned. AJ and DD are average receivers and running backs. Yes, they get their yards and receptions, but they aren't really a threat. Some of you will be all over me for these statements, but I think I'm being realistic. I wish it were different. Hollings is a non factor as are our other receivers. We were suppose to have so many receiving threats, but they dissapear at game time. I don't know whether that is play calling, bad route running, or lack of vision by the QB or all of the above. I think Capers better revisit his defensive and offensive schemes otherwise it will be a very long year. I said earlier in the year we had not recovered defensively from last year's injuries and I stand by that. I thought we were put back to square one and I continue to hold that opinion. The injuries are not the fault of management, but I believe they have placed too much hope and optomisum in injured retuning players.

SDBoltz
09-12-2004, 04:37 PM
A week or so ago, I said we would have to out score the other team, because we had a questionable defense this year. I would say that that is the case. We turned the ball over in the 1st year, but we would still stop the other teams. I believe we had one sack and I don't believe Brees was really pressured. There's no question turning the ball over 4 times is bad, but part of that is pressure from a lack of defense in that you press when you really shouldn't. You feel you have to score on every possession, because your defense can't stop the other team. Essentially every time we scored they countered with a score. The last fumble by DD was in a pressure situation. I'm not condoning it, but he's trying to get the extra yards for a 1st down and perhaps breaking it for a TD. We were at the 4 minute mark and down by 7. We had to score or else and the game was on the line. It was that simple. Even if we score SD would have had another opportunity with the ball. When you don't test the secondary, you allow the other team to gang up on you. There's no question that SD was ball hunting in that situation. Too bad, but I really don't see anything different from last year as far as the play calling is concerned. AJ and DD are average receivers and running backs. Yes, they get their yards and receptions, but they aren't really a threat. Some of you will be all over me for these statements, but I think I'm being realistic. I wish it were different. Hollings is a non factor as are our other receivers. We were suppose to have so many receiving threats, but they dissapear at game time. I don't know whether that is play calling, bad route running, or lack of vision by the QB or all of the above. I think Capers better revisit his defensive and offensive schemes otherwise it will be a very long year. I said earlier in the year we had not recovered defensively from last year's injuries and I stand by that. I thought we were put back to square one and I continue to hold that opinion. The injuries are not the fault of management, but I believe they have placed too much hope and optomisum in injured retuning players.


i disagree i think AJ is a monster but his route running sucks at least it did today even on that crossing pattern he ran it was still not crisp. I think your play calling was awful considering we gave up 36 passing td's last year. alot of them on sammy davis who was matched up against AJ i woulda liked to see sammy tested deep because he did well at the end of last year against the deep ball and showed he was learning as a rookie

BuffSoldier
09-12-2004, 04:39 PM
I agree, all except for the average wr/rb comment. we have to great second year players, who both played well when they got the ball in there hands(all except the fumbles) oh and really i theink gaffney had a heck of a game getting open on crossing routes and bradford caught some good passes a s well. the offense was spreading the ball very succesfully in the opening half but the offensive coordinator gets too conservative in the 2nd half.

Vinny
09-12-2004, 04:40 PM
AJ and DD are average receivers and running backs. Yes, they get their yards and receptions, but they aren't really a threat. Some of you will be all over me for these statements, but I think I'm being realistic. I wish it were different.
That is pretty ridiculous. I won't debate you today but one question... Did you watch the game today Ibar? Or are you just 'drawing conclusions' based on the stat sheet again?

Dontcare
09-12-2004, 04:52 PM
The Interceptions were not nearly as big as the fumbles. DD lost the game with his two fumbles, Carrs ints were not his fault and are much more likley to happen then a fumble. DD is good but he must get better at holding onto the ball for the Texans to have a chance at competeing this year.

Keldar
09-12-2004, 04:59 PM
The Interceptions were not nearly as big as the fumbles. DD lost the game with his two fumbles, Carrs ints were not his fault and are much more likley to happen then a fumble. DD is good but he must get better at holding onto the ball for the Texans to have a chance at competeing this year.

David Carr needs to be held accountable just as much as Domanick does. Don't throw off-balance from one foot(1st int.), and don't grin like a corn eatin' raccoon after an interception occurs from you bouncing it off a linebacker's helmet(2nd int.).

Nobody gets to skate the blame today!!!!! :thumbdown

Wolf
09-12-2004, 05:06 PM
I have no problem with Palmers playcalling. It was fine to me. Afterall we didn't have to punt until the 4th quarter. Yes the offense didn't move the ball in the 2nd half.. why? turnovers killed our offense. Meanwhile overall our defense was a disappointment to me today.

I think I heard Robaires' name once and heck I didn't even think Walker was playing today. Their OL did a great job today.

Vinny
09-12-2004, 06:03 PM
The playcalling was fine. Davis only ran the ball 10 times in the second half. We just don't execute in the clutch and we turn it over. That is why we lost. Not the playcalling (ten second half runs too much for DD?). I guess you answered me Ibar.

ArlingtonTexan
09-12-2004, 06:14 PM
The playcalling was fine. Davis only ran the ball 10 times in the second half. We just don't execute in the clutch and we turn it over. That is why we lost. Not the playcalling (ten second half runs too much for DD?). I guess you answered me Ibar.

I amazed at the number of people who have watched football for years and can't tell the difference between poor execution and poor play calling.

At the end of the half, you have to be able to trust your QB to not throw interception and with 4 minutes left you need to be able to hand the ball to your "stud" RB on your opponents 15 and he not fumble.

With 4 turnovers, there is ZERO blame to the coaching staff. All on two members of the 'triplets"

WWJD
09-12-2004, 06:26 PM
I'm disappointed in the loss but I'm looking for a bounce back game next week.

Turnovers devastated them today. And it hurts to lose a home game. You should really hope to win those and catch a few wins on the road.

Reload, practice hard and get the win next weekend.

rhc564
09-12-2004, 06:44 PM
Robinson should not be learning his NFL posisition at the expense of the
team. Also, against last years NFL doormat and even playing at home, we
had the same old problems--

(1) NO PASS RUSH/PRESSURE but San Diego did
(2) TURNOVERS-- Chargers had none
(3) FIELD GOALS in the RED ZONE in the 1st quarter, not scoring in
the 4th quarter-- Chargers did
(4) TOO MANY PENALTIES

Say what you want and sugar coat it as much as you can, but the
Texans do not play to win-- they play not to lose...

aj.
09-12-2004, 07:47 PM
Watching on TV doesn't allow you to see the two deep zone coverage that pretty much dictated the underneath stuff all day. I would have liked to see them take one or two more shots long but your best money is on the underneath stuff the way that SD was playing defense... And they did a pretty good job -- what was Carr about 19-25 for 200+ or something? The fumbles were killers. INTs are never good. (Carr TD/INT ratio off to a bad start) It was the -4 turnover thing that cost us the game. Play calling was a non issue. The Texans should have won this game easily but they laid an egg.

Hervoyel
09-12-2004, 07:54 PM
Robinson should not be learning his NFL posisition at the expense of the team.

Yeah, that's a damned if you do/damned if you don't problem. He's the new 1st round whiz kid (one of them at least) and he's our future shutdown corner but he doesn't become that player until he gets in the game.

Personally I think our team's better with Glenn and Coleman at the corners and Mcree holding down that safety spot they moved Coleman to but that's just me and even I only mean that it's better in the short term. I know that we're better in the long run getting Robinson (and Babbin) their experience now.

He's got to play sometime. He can't just sit there on the sideline and work in practice to reach his potential.

edo783
09-12-2004, 07:56 PM
Forget all the other stats. The one that dictates who wins and loses in nearly every case is the turn over ratio. We are off to a BAD start for the year. We need to be on the positive side of the give away/take away ratio if we expect to get to 8-8.

aj.
09-12-2004, 07:58 PM
Despite his slip (literally) today, Robinson is already better in man coverage than Coleman was last year or the year before.

TexSon
09-12-2004, 08:07 PM
Despite his slip (literally) today, Robinson is already better in man coverage than Coleman was last year or the year before.

How did Coleman look at FS?

DoCt3rJ
09-12-2004, 08:13 PM
Were still a few years away from being suprising, Carr made good reads, and good plays were called but we just had a few unlucky plays. I do believe we should of taken more shots down field, I only remember one long ball throwen, you can't do that. You have to try for the big play. Defensive secondary looks like their gonna get picked on all year, were in for another losing record season, but the games will atleast be more exciting. We'll just have to wait another year for those playoffs.

DoCt3rJ
09-12-2004, 08:13 PM
Despite his slip (literally) today, Robinson is already better in man coverage than Coleman was last year or the year before.



I have to disagree, he got beat numerous times, and it's not like hes playin against some name receivers. Parker/Caldwell??????????? Come on....

Vinny
09-12-2004, 08:16 PM
I thought Robinson played a fine game. He had the one slip but he did a good job otherwise.

aj.
09-12-2004, 08:32 PM
I have to disagree, he got beat numerous times, and it's not like hes playin against some name receivers. Parker/Caldwell??????????? Come on.... Numerous times DoCt3rJ? Aside from the slip, when was he beaten? I have the replay running now so if you could tell me the plays, I'd like to take a look at them to see what I missed while I was at the game.

Update: I just finished watching the first half and they threw at him only once - on his strip of Caldwell early in the 2nd. He missed a tackle on LTs long run but he really wasn't in position to get a clear shot at him.

Mid-3rd qtr: made a nice hit on Parker after a short 6 yd reception. Good coverage. That was right before the Caldwelll TD (the slip). On the TD, Caldwell gave him a double move just like Bennett gave Coleman last year against TN. Nearly the same exact play. Maybe opposing coaches believe our corners are easy to bite on those double moves.

On the pass interference he had good coverage. He had to make up two steps but he closed nicely and had good position just prior to the catch attempt - but he let his body drift into the receiver and used the arm bar and was caught red handed.

4th quarter -- I'm getting sick of seeing Eric Brown getting beaten by Gates. The nickel and dime coverage wasn't good today. Glenn got roasted by Parker on that last TD.

Well, that's it... I don't know what game you were watching but Robinson wasn't even thrown at that much today and by my count he was beaten once - on the TD, and he had one pass interference called on him - for coverage that was a little too good. Aaron needs to teach him to be a little sneakier with that arm bar thing...

SESupergenius
09-12-2004, 08:46 PM
It goes back to being a young defensive unit. They need to gel a little since they all havn't played too much together. This was a glaring weakness coming out of preseason. Our Pass defense just isn't good. Babin made some excellent plays today and for the most part our front seven play pretty good. Wongs sack put us back into the game, but Coleman got rolled on 3rd to seal it. I chalk up this loss on the secondary and the turnover ratio. The playcalling was fine. Carr didn't do well at all on the long yardage downs, his completion percentage on 3rd and long must be one of the sickest in the league. What is the cause of this?

TexanExile
09-13-2004, 11:28 AM
4th quarter -- I'm getting sick of seeing Eric Brown getting beaten by Gates. The nickel and dime coverage wasn't good today.


AMEN TO THAT. Brown got SMOKED, and it was obvious. Yeah, he's outsized in that matchup, but come on!

TheOgre
09-13-2004, 12:05 PM
I thought Carr was pretty sharp. One of his two INT's was that tipped ball that looked like a punt return it went so high. The other INT was clearly his fault. I don't think that he was the problem though.

DD's fumbles were much more harmful. That second fumble cost us a good chance to tie the score. It is a shame because it overshadows an otherwise good day for him.

Penalties also killed some drives. That hold by Bruener killed a big play by Davis. Funny thing is that hold had no barring on the play. Miller had a costly one too.

There is a lot of blame to go around but I think Carr was only a minor player in this loss.

geofb
09-13-2004, 12:31 PM
We threw more to RB then trying to go deep, so their secondary knowing we weren't going to challenge them could stay at LOS and blitz more...We cost ourselves the game with short passing game and giving away the ball FOUR times...Texans BEAT themselves :thumbdown

I've thought about this too. I'm beginning to wonder if the Texans coaching staff is afraid to let Carr throw the ball deep. Do they not believe he is capable of throwing an accurate deep pass?

SBTexans08
09-13-2004, 12:46 PM
With how conservative the Texans are and not testing the opposing secondary you'd think Texans had mediocre receivers.... :thumbdown