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View Full Version : Texans acquire veteran quarterback Cody Pickett


santo
07-27-2006, 04:47 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4077029.html


Just wondering, does anybody know anything about this guy??

Porky
07-27-2006, 04:49 PM
I've heard of him, but don't know much about him. Seems kind of odd that on the day training camp opens, all the sudden they realize they have only two vets. It's kind of like they said Doh! We only have two vets. Go pick up the phone Rick. What, they didn't know this last week?

chuckm
07-27-2006, 04:52 PM
Was he the rodeo guy turned QB, that played for the Niners last year?

powerfuldragon
07-27-2006, 04:52 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4077029.html


Just wondering, does anybody know anything about this guy??
your avatar is terrifying.

TEXANRED
07-27-2006, 04:54 PM
I've heard of him, but don't know much about him. Seems kind of odd that on the day training camp opens, all the sudden they realize they have only two vets. It's kind of like they said Doh! We only have two vets. Go pick up the phone Rick. What, they didn't know this last week?
So.................how do I save on gas costs?

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 04:54 PM
WOW!!!

Yeah I saw this guy play... the 49ers were so bad the whole place would start cheering for him! Cody Cody Cody!

They actually meant it too... mostly.

---
This Blog Shot sums it up for what I think most of San Fran thinks of the Cowboy
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/bay_area_sports/2005/11/commander_cody_.html

Commander Cody And The Lost Planet 49ers

You know, I am not a huge fan of Prince Charles and Camilla. The whole stupid royalty thing escapes me. According to family lore, my ancestors fought against the British in the Revolutionary War. Once when I was covering the Wimbledon tennis championships, I purposely sat down when some Duke of something-or-other entered the stadium and everyone else stood up. The only royals I would ever show up to watch are the Kansas City Royals.

However.

I must admit that on Sunday, I was very impressed with Prince Charles and his Duchess. They must be smarter than they look. They were visiting the Bay Area and wisely chose not to attend the 49er game.
---

He was not all that popular in Huskie land either or I should say split popularity. To be fair not much of it was really his fault. Pickett was recruited by Rick Neuheisel ( Aikman's buddy ) and kind of got linked up with him and some of the problems that were going on at that time ( which had nothing to do with Pickett as far as I know ).

guess I am going to have to change my avatar up now too...

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2006, 05:01 PM
Earlier in July, release talk was surrounding him..........with the alternative being discussed of switching him to WR.!

Insideop
07-27-2006, 05:04 PM
So.................how do I save on gas costs?


Probably pig manure! lol:

infantrycak
07-27-2006, 05:06 PM
From the link:

Kubiak wanted another veteran quarterback to join David Carr and Sage Rosenfels. The first-year head coach said if Carr or Rosenfels were injured, he didn't want to be left with only one veteran on the roster.

Should have come up with a better spin than veteran. Hard to see how this 3rd year QB with 2 starts and worse stats is more of a veteran than 4th year QB with 2 starts Ragone. Just say you like him better and haven't seen the progress from the other youngsters.

DRAMA
07-27-2006, 05:07 PM
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/cody_pickett

SESupergenius
07-27-2006, 05:07 PM
Picket impressed me....for 1 half of football. He had all the talent but just could't put it all together to impress anyone. He's a career 3rd stringer. I'm sure his agent probably called some of his friends up for a connection with a team...and looky here, it's the Texans. Training Camper fodder.

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2006, 05:08 PM
Probably pig manure! lol:

Not real impressive....not much of a "VETERAN." 40% completion.

I don't see it. Stats (http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/493030)

college profile pretty impressive (http://gohuskies.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/pickett_cody00.html)

chuckm
07-27-2006, 05:08 PM
our own Kurt Warner? :)

HOU-TEX
07-27-2006, 05:09 PM
your avatar is terrifying.

Is that..........Chuckies nephew? Aaaaaaaaaaa:crying:

edo783
07-27-2006, 05:09 PM
Takes up some of the arm strain during camp. Likely not on the final roster.

TexanSam
07-27-2006, 05:19 PM
If we wanted another veteran, couldn't we just have kept Tony Banks? He's probably a better QB than this guy. Banks and Rosenfels could have battled for 2nd string QB spot.

wags
07-27-2006, 05:20 PM
Pretty brutal to get cut/whatever from a team who's starter throws 1 TD for every 11 INT's.:twocents:

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2006, 05:20 PM
Maybe with the genius of Kub and Kyle, he can meet himself coming and going.....................and Pickett goes back.....he let's the ball fly.............could it be, yes it is .................a one-handed grab by Pickett at the goal line.........Touchdown!!!!!:francis: :francis::tease: :francis:

TexanSam
07-27-2006, 05:23 PM
Maybe with the genius of Kub and Kyle, he can meet himself coming and going.....................and Pickett goes back.....he let's the ball fly.............could it be, yes it is .................a one-handed grab by Pickett at the goal line.........Touchdown!!!!!:francis: :francis::tease: :francis:

If that's the case, he'll be the 2nd QB in Texans history to complete a pass to himself. Dave Ragone did it a few years ago.

TexansLucky13
07-27-2006, 05:24 PM
Wow, so now just being in the NFL for three years makes you a veteran. What does that make Brett Favre? God?

hollywood_texan
07-27-2006, 05:25 PM
How is Pickett any different from Ragone? Looked up on ESPN and the Insider scouting report, no real difference.

We cut Ragone, Bengals pick him up and then trade him, and then we make a trade for Pickett.

This is for the third string spot.

This seems really strange. This team and organization has a lot more to worry about than messing around with who is the third string QB. In addition, any team is in big trouble if it is playing it's 3rd string QB. This seems like one of things you worry about, but you don't do anything about it because there are not enough resources to solve every problem and you are pretty much screwed anyway if it happens.

I understand waiving Ragone, but we basically traded for virtually the same guy.

Can someone please explain this to me? There must be a finer point and technical issue that I am missing.

Waive Ragone and go naked and the 3rd string QB spot, I thought that was the plan.

painekiller
07-27-2006, 05:28 PM
Makes me wonder if the team is unhappy with Sage? :confused:

Vinny
07-27-2006, 05:30 PM
Camp arm...nuttin much more.

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2006, 05:30 PM
If that's the case, he'll be the 2nd QB in Texans history to complete a pass to himself. Dave Ragone did it a few years ago.

He's in good company........Marino caught one pass in his career vs. New England, when he caught his own deflected pass for a six-yard loss.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
07-27-2006, 05:32 PM
Would the Texans really give up a draft pick for some guy that is going to just be training camp fodder and won't even make the final roster?

jerek
07-27-2006, 05:34 PM
I half suspect that the FO was quietly pursuing another veteran QB(s) along the way, but that deal(s) fell through and so we sort of defaulted to Pickett.

hollywood_texan
07-27-2006, 05:34 PM
Would the Texans really give up a draft pick for some guy that is going to just be training camp fodder?

Exactly, that is what I don't understand.

Maybe it is a conditional draft pick, meaning conditional in that he has to make the team.

hollywood_texan
07-27-2006, 05:38 PM
I half suspect that the FO was quietly pursuing another veteran QB(s) along the way, but that deal(s) fell through and so we sort of defaulted to Pickett.

Of all the issues this organization has, why is it such a big deal who is the 2nd or 3rd string QB?

Fix the other stuff first, and worry about this later.

Vinny
07-27-2006, 05:42 PM
Would the Texans really give up a draft pick for some guy that is going to just be training camp fodder and won't even make the final roster?
probably not...I didn't look to see we gave up a pick for him. This is an interesting move.

the wonger need food
07-27-2006, 05:43 PM
Exactly, that is what I don't understand.

Maybe it is a conditional draft pick, meaning conditional in that he has to make the team.

Probably a conditional 7th if he makes the roster.

powerfuldragon
07-27-2006, 05:43 PM
maybe he'll be carr's stunt double.

hollywood_texan
07-27-2006, 05:54 PM
probably not...I didn't look to see we gave up a pick for him. This is an interesting move.

First paragraph of the article...

"On the day the Texans reported for their first training camp under new coach Gary Kubiak , they acquired veteran quarterback Cody Pickett from the Tampa Bay Bucanneers in exchange for an undisclosed draft choice."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4077029.html

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2006, 06:23 PM
probably not...I didn't look to see we gave up a pick for him. This is an interesting move.

That's exactly why I previously said " I don't see IT (the logic)" ...please help me understand this "sly" move.

Vinny
07-27-2006, 06:34 PM
Cloak, many of the 9er fans (http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=3992) thought Pickett would have not have made it out of camp and are happy that Nolan got something out of him instead of releasing him.

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 06:38 PM
That's exactly why I previously said " I don't see IT (the logic)" ...please help me understand this "sly" move.

It's because he can move in the pocket and work bootlegs, waggles, and all of the other things that a mobile QB can do.

He is a slash WR and can play special teams.

Ragone could not.

You have to have three QBs on your team ( at least one tagged as an emergency QB ).

DominickDavisFan76
07-27-2006, 06:39 PM
Ummm...Cody Pickett, is probably one of the worst pick ups the texans have this off-season..he only has 1 start, and he was 1-13 almost as bad as Ryan Leaf...who was 1-15......so ya...

His Senior Year at Washington he threw 86 Ints...so honestly i would have to wonder why this guy is in the NFL....but ok....

hollywood_texan
07-27-2006, 06:43 PM
It's because he can move in the pocket and work bootlegs, waggles, and all of the other things that a mobile QB can do.

He is a slash WR and can play special teams.

Ragone could not.

You have to have three QBs on your team ( at least one tagged as an emergency QB ).

All right, that makes sense to me. Fair enough. Thanks.

But his scouting reporter on ESPN Insider doesn't discuss any of his non-quarterback skills.

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 06:43 PM
Cloak, many of the 9er fans (http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=3992) thought Pickett would have not have made it out of camp and are happy that Nolan got something out of him instead of releasing him.

This is the press release from Nolan.
http://49ers.com/pressbox/news_detail.php?PRKey=1967

The fans don't like Pickett because of his miserable play that was better than their 1st round pick's record setting miserable play... so go figure. EDIT: I should also add that Pickett was a pick-up under Dennis Erickson, a coach that wasn't popular with the 49er fans. But yet is a bit of a coaching icon in the Northwest.
http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060727/SPORTS04/607270325/1049/SPORTS
You can put two and two together after reading this.

( Alex Smith almost topped Ryan Leaf... and he might have, had he played all 16 games )

Hookem Horns
07-27-2006, 06:43 PM
Commander Cody is back!

Vinny
07-27-2006, 06:44 PM
This is the press release from Nolan.
http://49ers.com/pressbox/news_detail.php?PRKey=1967

The fans don't like Pickett because of his miserable play that was better than their 1st round pick's record setting miserable play... so go figure.

( Alex Smith almost topped Ryan Leaf... and he might have had he played all 16 games )Well, the fans are split...I know cause I run their message board too. :francis:

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 07:01 PM
Well, the fans are split...I know cause I run their message board too. :francis:

Well Vinny... you know that only some fans hang out on the message boards.

( BUT I am not going to carry a debate about fans in 49er land... I will rest on Vince Young and the Houston Texans' message board )

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2006, 07:04 PM
It's because he can move in the pocket and work bootlegs, waggles, and all of the other things that a mobile QB can do.

He is a slash WR and can play special teams.

Ragone could not.

You have to have three QBs on your team ( at least one tagged as an emergency QB ).


I have a hard time accepting that logic. He has had never any significant had game time experience as a WR or ST player. He has shown no consistency. The 9s were "toying" with him in the slot. He never played anything but QB in HS, college or in the NFL...........:


Pickett's future as 49ers QB in doubt (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2006/06/06/SPGOGJ952M1.DTL)
Kevin Lynch, Chronicle Staff Writer

Tuesday, June 6, 2006

Cody Pickett's 6-foot-3 inch frame, powerful arm, fleet feet and toughness have made him a prospect and fan favorite. But with Friday's signing of former Vikings QB Shaun Hill, Pickett's days as a 49ers quarterback could be numbered.

On Monday, Hill joined Pickett, starter Alex Smith, Trent Dilfer and Jesse Palmer at the 49ers' organized team activity (OTA). Although Dilfer's surgically repaired right knee won't allow him to participate in full practice until training camp opens July 27, his roster spot is assured, as is Smith's.

Palmer's fluid throwing motion and strong arm make him a front-runner for the third quarterback spot. Hill spent four seasons in Minnesota without throwing a pass in a regular-season game. The 49ers signed him to compete for the third spot.

The Hill signing might push Pickett to another position. Last year, he dabbled as a coverage man on punts and kickoffs and did well as a receiver on the scout team in practice.

"I want to play quarterback, that's what I've done my whole life," Pickett said Monday. "(But) as a third quarterback, you don't get a chance to get out there and play. ... We have Alex and Trent here now, so I want to be out on the field, I don't want to be just standing around."

Coaches have discussed moving Pickett to receiver.

"I want to be here," Pickett said. "If they want me to play receiver, I'll do it."

The 49ers wanted Pickett to play in NFL Europe this spring. When Pickett resisted, the 49ers relented. A stint in Europe would have allowed Pickett, a seventh-round pick in 2004, to work on his mechanics, which former offensive coordinator Mike McCarthy tried to refashion last year.

"It's been tough on Cody," vice president of player personnel Scot McCloughan said. "He had a lot of different coaches try to change his mechanics."

Still working on his release, Pickett looks erratic in practice. He struggled in his two starts last season, completing one pass in 13 attempts in the 47-mph gusts at Chicago's Soldier Field on Nov. 13.

So far in the OTA, Pickett mainly has played quarterback. But when training camp begins, he might be splitting time between receiver and quarterback.

"I like Cody. He's competitive, he's tough," head coach Mike Nolan said. "I think he makes us better by competing for jobs and maybe winning those jobs. I don't think (his future) will be at quarterback right now the way it stands."

My question stands open.......Please someone, show me the logic.

DallasNiner
07-27-2006, 07:08 PM
WOW!!!

Yeah I saw this guy play... the 49ers were so bad the whole place would start cheering for him! Cody Cody Cody!

They actually meant it too... mostly.

Yep yep, that bad and we still beat you guys last year. :tease: ...I congratulate you guys on Cody...maybe he'll get a shot over there...all I can remember is that Chicago game where he was 1 for 13. :francis:

the wonger need food
07-27-2006, 07:19 PM
Oh my... we're signing 49er castoffs.

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 07:27 PM
My question stands open.......Please someone, show me the logic.


Ask yourself why would a coach want to move a QB to WR if he could not show some type of speed or in the very least some type of mobility?

tsip
07-27-2006, 07:28 PM
How is Pickett any different from Ragone? Looked up on ESPN and the Insider scouting report, no real difference.

We cut Ragone, Bengals pick him up and then trade him, and then we make a trade for Pickett.

This is for the third string spot.

This seems really strange. This team and organization has a lot more to worry about than messing around with who is the third string QB. In addition, any team is in big trouble if it is playing it's 3rd string QB. This seems like one of things you worry about, but you don't do anything about it because there are not enough resources to solve every problem and you are pretty much screwed anyway if it happens.

I understand waiving Ragone, but we basically traded for virtually the same guy.

Can someone please explain this to me? There must be a finer point and technical issue that I am missing.

Waive Ragone and go naked and the 3rd string QB spot, I thought that was the plan.

...good points. I liked Ragone and at least he did a little something as a pro--MVP in Europe. Something just does not 'smell right' here. Why didn't we bring in this guy before the camps to learn the system? Like another poster said, this guy must just be here to throw the ball around because of all the extra receivers in camp...

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 07:30 PM
Yep yep, that bad and we still beat you guys last year. :tease: ...I congratulate you guys on Cody...maybe he'll get a shot over there...all I can remember is that Chicago game where he was 1 for 13. :francis:

O yeah man... that was something else. That Chicago game... HOLY crap that was bad!

I remember trying to see if that was an NFL record... and I don't think it was, but it was close. I remember there being some debate about what the number of attempts would have to be to make it a qualifer!

Although I have to say... the wind was blowing REALLY hard that day. I am serious it was like 20 knots or something.

DallasNiner
07-27-2006, 07:33 PM
O yeah man... that was something else. That Chicago game... HOLY crap that was bad!

I remember trying to see if that was an NFL record... and I don't think it was, but it was close. I remember there being some debate about what the number of attempts would have to be to make it a qualifer!

Although I have to say... the wind was blowing REALLY hard that day. I am serious it was like 20 knots or something.
The wind was blowing hard...but as a pro-level QB you kind of expect him to adjust. The other QB did.

DallasNiner
07-27-2006, 07:36 PM
O yeah man... that was something else. That Chicago game... HOLY crap that was bad!

I remember trying to see if that was an NFL record... and I don't think it was, but it was close. I remember there being some debate about what the number of attempts would have to be to make it a qualifer!

Although I have to say... the wind was blowing REALLY hard that day. I am serious it was like 20 knots or something.
Although we do have some goober fans that'll tell you he's the next coming of Randall Cunningham or a Mini-Jake Plummer :francis: :homer:

DallasNiner
07-27-2006, 07:41 PM
Well, the fans are split...I know cause I run their message board too. :francis:
Since when? :tease:

hollywood_texan
07-27-2006, 07:41 PM
O yeah man... that was something else. That Chicago game... HOLY crap that was bad!

I remember trying to see if that was an NFL record... and I don't think it was, but it was close. I remember there being some debate about what the number of attempts would have to be to make it a qualifer!

Although I have to say... the wind was blowing REALLY hard that day. I am serious it was like 20 knots or something.



The wind was blowing hard...but as a pro-level QB you kind of expect him to adjust. The other QB did.

The kickers couldn't even kick a field goal where the ball would stay within the sidelines.

That day was one of the worsts for wind from the clips I saw. He may stink, but that day looked like it would have been difficult for any All-Pro QB to handle. If I remember, the Chicago QB had a tough time too, but I think Chicago had running game to rely on.

Vinny
07-27-2006, 07:44 PM
Since when? :tease:I'm not afraid to ban the mods. Ask Sammy. :shoot: :stirpot:

DallasNiner
07-27-2006, 07:45 PM
I'm not afraid to ban the mods. Ask Sammy. :shoot: :stirpot:
Yeah, sammy wasn't from Texas though :shades: I kid I kid

powerfuldragon
07-27-2006, 07:52 PM
i wish i was boss of the 49ers forum.

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 07:53 PM
Although we do have some goober fans that'll tell you he's the next coming of Randall Cunningham or a Mini-Jake Plummer :francis: :homer:

Well Frisco, It's usually a wise thing not to take candy or words from a stranger... but I can tell you that I have seen a lot of Cody Pickett and he hasn't really had the best environment to develop in.

Take the change the mechanics story: There are schools of thought that you should never mess with the mechanics of a QB's arm; see Young/Kosar. I am with them. And if you don't want to take my word for it... you can Montana's. Who calls Kosar one of the most accurate QBs in the history of the modern NFL ( which I do not contest ).

I personally think Pickett is done for as a QB. But for the Texans, he has a fire that I am familiar with... so I am going to hang my hat on that until something better blows along.

And that Chicago game - Wind gusts upto 47 Mph

Orton was 8-14 on 4.8 yard passes... So ya know that's a short pass. BUT you are right that Pickett should have been able to do something. Call some shovel passes just so you don't feel so bad at the end of the day.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20051113_SF@CHI

DallasNiner
07-27-2006, 07:55 PM
Well Frisco, It's usually a wise thing not to take candy or words from a stranger... but I can tell you that I have seen a lot of Cody Pickett and he hasn't really had the best environment to develop in.

Take the change the mechanics story: There are schools of thought that you should never mess with the mechanics of a QB arm; see Young/Kosar. I am with them. And if you don't want to take my word for it... you can Montana's. Who calls Kosar one of the most accurate QBs in the history of the modern NFL ( which I do not contest ).

I personally think Pickett is done for as a QB. But for the Texans, he has a fire that I am familiar with... so I am going to hang my hat on that until something better blows along.

And that Chicago game - Wind gusts upto 47 Mph

Orton was 8-14 on 4.8 yard passes... So ya know that's a short pass. BUT you are right that Pickett should have been able to do something. Call some shovel passes just so you don't feel so bad at the end of the day.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/recap/NFL_20051113_SF@CHI
No doubt he hasn't had the best situation to develop in. I wish him well...maybe he'll get more of a chance here then he would've with our team...Only time will tell...I just don't think he's set to be an NFL QB.

Vinny
07-27-2006, 07:56 PM
Well Frisco, It's usually a wise thing not to take candy or words from a stranger... but I can tell you that I have seen a lot of Cody Pickett and he hasn't really had the best environment to develop in. This is hilarious. On the 9ers board there are fans trumpeting the signing of Jerry Deloach and are telling me how good he is. Now on the Texans board we have Texans fans stating how good Pickett is.

you can't make this kind of stuff up.

Tiz
07-27-2006, 08:01 PM
No doubt he hasn't had the best situation to develop in. I wish him well...maybe he'll get more of a chance here then he would've with our team...Only time will tell...I just don't think he's set to be an NFL QB.


he isn't even an NFLE QB.....but he's one heck of a rodeo clown...or cowboy...either way he's tough...

OH...HI Vinny

powerfuldragon
07-27-2006, 08:01 PM
This is hilarious. On the 9ers board there are fans trumpeting the signing of Jerry Deloach and are telling me how good he is. Now on the Texans board we have Texans fans stating how good Pickett is.

you can't make this kind of stuff up.
HAH!

Finally, some defensive line depth! Good move! DeLoach is an established journeyman 3-4 DE, which is exactly what we needed. Behind Young and Douglas we had nothing beyond a second-day rookie draft pick and a warm body or two. DeLoach does what a 3-4 DE is supposed to do: control blockers and tie up the running lanes. Now Anthony Adams won't have to do double duty between NT and DE, which should keep him fresh.

DallasNiner
07-27-2006, 08:03 PM
he isn't even an NFLE QB.....but he's one heck of a rodeo clown...or cowboy...either way he's tough...

OH...HI Vinny
Well geez wheres the rest of the niner board? :francis:

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 08:03 PM
This is hilarious. On the 9ers board there are fans trumpeting the signing of Jerry Deloach and are telling me how good he is. Now on the Texans board we have Texans fans stating how good Pickett is.

you can't make this kind of stuff up.

Correction. FAN. the Singular usage.

And not really a fan... just hope! faith. love. :heh:

Tiz
07-27-2006, 08:07 PM
Well geez wheres the rest of the niner board? :francis:


banned

SF49erFaithful
07-27-2006, 08:09 PM
This is hilarious. On the 9ers board there are fans trumpeting the signing of Jerry Deloach and are telling me how good he is. Now on the Texans board we have Texans fans stating how good Pickett is.

you can't make this kind of stuff up.
I don't think anyone is saying how good Deloach is. Everyone is just excited because he provides much needed depth to the D-Line.

BTW, I think Nolan did a good job getting a draft pick for Pickett who probably wouldn't of even made the team. Overall, i guess Cody is a pretty decent #3 QB

Vinny
07-27-2006, 08:11 PM
Just a nice snapshot of how fans glom to their new players and immediately overvalue them....in a general way of course. I just find it kinda amusing.

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 08:11 PM
Well geez wheres the rest of the niner board? :francis:

Don't worry they will be along shortly. We signed Eric Moulds, so Jerry Rice will be next. Whatever it takes ... we are going to save some face. After we get Jerry in the fold, the boards will be merged.

ehehe

Tiz
07-27-2006, 08:13 PM
Just a nice snapshot of how fans glom to their new players and immediately overvalue them....in a general way of course. I just find it kinda amusing.

This is true...except when we signed mike anderson i still feel he's a product of Denver (or kubiak) game planning as opposed to him having any actual talent


PROVE ME WRONG MIKE PROVE ME WRONG...

DallasNiner
07-27-2006, 08:15 PM
In all honesty Pickett is Joe Montana and Jerry Rice in one I heard he can kick as well...kinda like Morton Andersen :stirpot:

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2006, 08:19 PM
Ask yourself why would a coach want to move a QB to WR if he could not show some type of speed or in the very least some type of mobility?

I have, and I only come up even more bewildered. There are lots of players that mave speed and mobility, but they'll never be able to play WR because it takes much more than that to be an NFL receiver like catching the ball, taking a hit and holding onto the ball, running good routes and list goes on.
You don't give up even a 7th round pick for some one who "dabbled" in ST coverage (note: not receiving punts or kicks. but coverage) or a player thinking of "on the fly" conversion to a WR position without a significantly realistic or historical basis to think that (I can't remember a QB which without preNFL experience "converted" successfully the NFL).........and on top of that a 3rd string QB whose performance on a last place team led to his being essentially told that he didn't have what it takes for that position.

Meanwhile, I'll still be waiting...........and watching for the logic of this acquisition.

Tiz
07-27-2006, 08:19 PM
In all honesty Pickett is Joe Montana and Jerry Rice in one I heard he can kick as well...kinda like Morton Andersen :stirpot:


i thought he was more like the white michael vick except that he's a more accurate passer...

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 08:21 PM
In all honesty Pickett is Joe Montana and Jerry Rice in one I heard he can kick as well...kinda like Morton Andersen :stirpot:

A keen mind, sharp eyes, and good judgement. Must be cuttin your beans with Rice-a-roni.

Tiz
07-27-2006, 08:21 PM
I have, and I only come up even more bewildered. There are lots of players that mave speed and mobility, but they'll never be able to play WR because it takes much more than that to be an NFL receiver like catching the ball, taking a hit and holding onto the ball, running good routes and list goes on.
You don't give up even a 7th round pick for some one who "dabbled" in ST coverage (note: not receiving punts or kicks. but coverage) or a player thinking of "on the fly" conversion to a WR position without a significantly realistic or historical basis to think that (I can't remember a QB which without preNFL experience "converted" successfully the NFL).........and on top of that a 3rd string QB whose performance on a last place team led to his being essentially told that he didn't have what it takes for that position.

Meanwhile, I'll still be waiting...........and watching for the logic of this acquisition.


i won't compare Pickett to any body with Talent but i don't recall Antwan having a history of playing WR prior to doing so in the nfl same with Kordell...they played their entire careers in college (IU and CU) at the QB positions...so there goes your argument...unless you want to redefine successfully converted...

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 08:34 PM
I have, and I only come up even more bewildered.
Meanwhile, I'll still be waiting...........and watching for the logic of this acquisition.

Ok. He never made it to WR. He didn't want to be a WR. The WR part shows you how much speed and mobility he has for a QB.

He is not a great QB.

BUT now ask yourself what you would do if you were Kubiak?

You are going to build a playbook or install a bunch of plays that the 1st team will practice and execute on gamedays. Plays that utilize Carr's mobility.

Carr gets hurt. Sage gets hurt.

You now have to insert a guy that is not going to require you to change up your gameplan that much or reduce your strategic approach to calling plays. You want to keep doing what you had planned to do all week long ( or as much as possible ).

If you have a Bledsoe as your emergency QB, you are not going to be able to use all of those nifty bootlegs and you certainly are not going to waste reps on your 1st team to practice plays just for your 3rd string QB.

I am not talking for Kubiak... he might have other plans or designs ( of several that I can think of ). But picking up a mobile QB, while ditching a less mobile one, makes sense in that scenario.

Runner
07-27-2006, 09:06 PM
We cut Ragone, Bengals pick him up and then trade him, and then we make a trade for Pickett.

...

I understand waiving Ragone, but we basically traded for virtually the same guy.

Can someone please explain this to me? There must be a finer point and technical issue that I am missing.

Waive Ragone and go naked and the 3rd string QB spot, I thought that was the plan.

I bet you'd really be upset if you found out we turned down St. Louis when they offered us the draft pick for Ragone. :confused:

However, if the third string QB position is the only place our front office and coaching staff was a little erratic this off-season, I'd say they did a pretty good job.

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 09:32 PM
Colts wanted Ragone: Many people were surprised when the St. Louis Rams traded a conditional draft pick to the Bengals for backup quarterback Dave Ragone about a month ago, and then gave him a $100,000 signing bonus to boot. The former Texans backup was brought to Cincinnati earlier this year when the Bengals, Colts and Patriots put in a claim for his services. The Rams reportedly didn't put a waiver claim on him at the time because they didn't want to pay his one-year $721,600 salary. They wanted to negotiate a deal that would have lowered his cap hit if he cleared waivers. When they learned the Bengals were considering waiving him, they asked for permission to work out a two-year deal with Ragone in exchange for a pick as they believed at least the Colts would put in another waiver claim.

http://colts.scout.com/2/549200.html
July 26

At least Ragone was in demand.

Go figure too because Shatz was pretty high on Sorgi behind Manning.
( plus they picked up Shaun King June 2nd )
---

Will make a late correction Pickett would have played WR, if they really wanted him too. BUT he really wanted to play QB and not WR.

---

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/draft/2003/picks/ragone.html

Just for review:
"At almost 250 lbs., he’s no Michael Vick with respect to mobility and avoiding the rush. After having played mainly out of the shotgun in college, Ragone will have improve his footwork."

He is not known for his mobility:

"2003 Expectations: Ragone should battle Mike Quinn for the Texans’ third quarterback spot this year, with an eye towards Tony Banks’ job as David Carr’s backup in the future. Chris Palmer may be able to eventually to develop Ragone to the point where he can be used as trade bait, like Palmer did with mid-rounder Rob Johnson in Jacksonville."

Harharhar. Palmer? Casserly. Nitwits forgot to write that down in the continuity books.

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2006, 09:42 PM
i won't compare Pickett to any body with Talent but i don't recall Antwan having a history of playing WR prior to doing so in the nfl same with Kordell...they played their entire careers in college (IU and CU) at the QB positions...so there goes your argument...unless you want to redefine successfully converted...

I don't know about Kordell, but I do know that in college Antwan played WR, QB, Punt returner and Punter. When he was in the NFL he was at least a reasonable QB. I'm not out to redefine anything, just trying to work through something that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Runner
07-27-2006, 09:43 PM
At least Ragone was in demand.


St. Louis really wanted him. On the surface it is easy to say, "Ragone was waived or traded twice in a month so he must suck". In reality I think we were watching a young man take control of his career and get to a team where he had a legitimate shot at playing time. He didn't want to be the default third string QB any more. He was with the previous coaches and probably would have been with the new ones after the signing of Sage.

Linehan wanted Ragone and Ragone wanted to play for Linehan. It all worked out to their mutual satisfaction.

South Texan
07-27-2006, 09:59 PM
The are going to turn Cody into a DB so every time the opposition tosses a pass anywhere near him we can all yell "Captain Cody, Pickett off!!!" :homer:

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2006, 10:00 PM
Ok. He never made it to WR. He didn't want to be a WR. The WR part shows you how much speed and mobility he has for a QB.

He is not a great QB.

BUT now ask yourself what you would do if you were Kubiak?

You are going to build a playbook or install a bunch of plays that the 1st team will practice and execute on gamedays. Plays that utilize Carr's mobility.

Carr get's hurt. Sage get's hurt.

You now have to insert a guy that is not going to require you to change up your gameplan that much or reduce your strategic approach to calling plays. You want to keep doing what you had planned to do all week long ( as much as possible ).

If you have a Bledsoe as your emergency QB, you are not going to be able to use all of those nifty bootlegs and you certainly are not going to waste reps on your 1st team to practice plays just for your 3rd string QB.

I am not talking for Kubiak... he might have other plans or designs ( of several that I can think of ). But picking up a mobile QB, while ditching a less mobile one, makes sense in that scenario.

I can almost see where you're coming from, but if the 9s couldn't even feel good enough about his potential at QB or the other positions (he even practiced at safety) to give it a try in preseason...........????? A 3rd QB is usually one that you want to develop while the others do the real job. For that matter, I sand lot played with several of the nonQB Oilers when they were here. You'd be surprised how many could accurately spiral that ball into a target or run that ball like an RB....that just wasn't their true position. But with this guy's passing history, I would almost think that somewhere on our team we would be able to find someone to "crosstrain" from scratch with more potential for success in the event of a temporary stop gap. I guess we'll have to wait on how this "experiment" plays itself out.

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 10:03 PM
St. Louis really wanted him. On the surface it is easy to say, "Ragone was waived or traded twice in a month so he must suck". In reality I think we were watching a young man take control of his career and get to a team where he had a legitimate shot at playing time. He didn't want to be the default third string QB any more. He was with the previous coaches and probably would have with the new ones after the signing of Sage.

Linehan wanted Ragone and Ragone wanted to play for Linehan. It all worked out to their mutual satisfaction.

Letting him go makes sense. Letting him go for free does not. Go figure... I guess we could send an email to Smith and see if he will say anything.

Or maybe getting something for him would have hurt his chances of making it to St.Louis or something like that?? And Smith was like okay... we will let you go for free. That might explain the Colts swooping in on him? Not sure.

The Colt story could be totally bogus though too, I guess. When you see "an divisional rival" in the headlines, it makes you wonder.
----

Looking at the Rams:
Quarterback Jeff Smoker was released Tuesday, leaving the Rams with four signal-callers (Marc Bulger, Gus Frerotte, Ryan Fitzpatrick and Dave Ragone) heading into training camp.

I don't know... Fitzpatrick sure can play. :D

Runner
07-27-2006, 10:11 PM
Letting him go makes sense. Letting him go for free does not. Go figure... I guess we could send an email to Smith and see if he will say anything.

Or maybe getting something for him would have hurt his chances of making it to St.Louis or something like that?? And Smith was like okay... we will let you go for free. That might explain the Colts swooping in on him? Not sure.



You don't have to send anybody an e-mail - I'm giving you the straight dope. :shades:

I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that St. Louis offered us a draft pick for Ragone on draft day and we turned it down because we planned on keeping him as our third stringer. After things changed, I don't know if the trade with St. Louis was revisited before we waived him or not. It seems that would have been the simplest solution for all.

vtech9
07-27-2006, 10:22 PM
Probably a conditional 7th if he makes the roster.
just in case anyone is still wondering, KFFL says it is for a conditional draft pick. So basically, if Cody doesn't make the final roster, we will probably not lose a pick.



Texans | Team acquires Pickett from San Francisco
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:32:44 -0700

The Associated Press reports the Houston Texans have acquired QB Cody Pickett from the San Francisco 49ers in exchange for a conditional draft pick.

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 10:34 PM
You don't have to send anybody an e-mail - I'm giving you the straight dope. :shades:

I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out that St. Louis offered us a draft pick for Ragone on draft day and we turned it down because we planned on keeping him as our third stringer. After things changed, I don't know if the trade with St. Louis was revisited before we waived him or not. It seems that would have been the simplest solution for all.

That's the part I am talking about. You could send an email and say, "hey why didn't we shop him for a pick before waiving him." I am slightly kidding though... I guess. I would like to know, but I am not pining for it.

Maybe he didn't really want to go to St.Louis.. maybe he thought the Browns were going to pick him up, so that he could start or something like that..and then that team found someone else and left him hanging. Or the Bengals stepped in before the team he wanted to go to, could claim him for free.

Not sure what the rules are for claiming ... if it's like the one fastest on the buzzer or what.
---

Also if you trade a guy you have to eat his signing bonus I think. EDIT: Meaning that might have played into it later after the draft

Runner
07-27-2006, 10:48 PM
That's the part I am talking about. You could send an email and say, "hey why didn't we shop him for a pick before waiving him." I am slightly kidding though... I guess. I would like to know, but I am not pining for it.

Maybe he didn't really want to go to St.Louis.. maybe he thought the Browns were going to pick him up, so that he could start or something like that..and then that team found someone else and left him hanging. Or the Bengals stepped in before the team he wanted to go to, could claim him for free.

Not sure what the rules are for claiming ... if it's like the one fastest on the buzzer or what.
---

Also if you trade a guy you have to eat his signing bonus I think.

Picking people up off waivers is done in the same order as the draft - worst to first. St. Louis could have claimed him before Cincinnati. Either the Rams screwed up or there were salary cap issues as stated in a previous post. Everything isn't perfectly clear, but we are talking real world here.

The Rams' new coach is Scott Linehan, Ragone's college coach. They both know what they are getting in this deal - and make no mistake, Ragone was very successful under Linehan. I think Rags is exactly where he wants to be.

This is a pretty minor issue as far as the Texans are concerned, but I find the whole thing pretty interesting. I don't think things are anywhere near as straightforward as they initially seemed to us on the board. I think there is a lesson there.

Bobo
07-27-2006, 11:07 PM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/4077029.html


Just wondering, does anybody know anything about this guy??

So they cut Ragone and pick up this guy? Four words: Insane in the brain.

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 11:10 PM
Picking people up off waivers is done in the same order as the draft - worst to first. St. Louis could have claimed him before Cincinnati. Either the Rams screwed up or there were salary cap issues as stated in a previous post. Everything isn't perfectly clear, but we are talking real world here.

The Rams' new coach is Scott Linehan, Ragone's college coach. They both know what they are getting in this deal - and make no mistake, Ragone was very successful under Linehan. I think Rags is exactly where he wants to be.

This is a pretty minor issue as far as the Texans are concerned, but I find the whole thing pretty interesting. I don't think things are anywhere near as straightforward as they initially seemed to us on the board. I think there is a lesson there.

Yeah. That would be not to waste draft picks on guys that don't fit your mold of quarterbacks in the first place. Unless they were farming him for higher picks later... not seeing how you are going to get much better then third for a back-up though. He was the 4th or 5th QB taken in the draft.

Palmer, Leftwich, Grossman, Boller... so 5th I think. And before Chris Simms too.

but hey, " you can never have too many QBs."

We shall see though... Bulger might be one of those medical cases and he could get a start, but I don't see how he would ever dress with him healthy. Bulger is only in his 6th year.
---

EDIT:

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/STL/9545238

is this wrong? I don't think I understand anymore either.

GP
07-28-2006, 12:28 AM
Same thing just happened yesterday with a guy we cut. Just heard that the Steelers picked up Jamaal Lord and then the Steelers traded him to the Cardinals for a 4th rounder. Just kidding. Man, you were getting angry weren't you? Bwaaaa-haaa....:whip:

CloakNNNdagger
07-28-2006, 12:54 AM
For anyone who is interested, the 9rs just signed DeLoach.

The Pencil Neck
07-28-2006, 01:09 AM
Or the Bengals stepped in before the team he wanted to go to, could claim him for free.


I think the Bengals picked him up because they'd heard about someone named Ragone who'd knocked over a liquor store. Then they actually talked to him and found out it was a case of mistaken identity so they traded him to the Rams.

Vinny
07-28-2006, 01:30 AM
I have, and I only come up even more bewildered. There are lots of players that mave speed and mobility, but they'll never be able to play WR because it takes much more than that to be an NFL receiver like catching the ball, taking a hit and holding onto the ball, running good routes and list goes on.
You don't give up even a 7th round pick for some one who "dabbled" in ST coverage (note: not receiving punts or kicks. but coverage) or a player thinking of "on the fly" conversion to a WR position without a significantly realistic or historical basis to think that (I can't remember a QB which without preNFL experience "converted" successfully the NFL).........and on top of that a 3rd string QB whose performance on a last place team led to his being essentially told that he didn't have what it takes for that position.

Meanwhile, I'll still be waiting...........and watching for the logic of this acquisition.
It came to me in a flash. I saw a pizza commercial and thought about the immortal career back-up, "Gueido Merkins". We just signed Giuseppe Slash.

Keldar
07-28-2006, 01:40 AM
Why would you ever sign a QB named "pick-it"?:hides:

TexansLucky13
07-28-2006, 02:35 AM
Why would you ever sign a QB named "pick-it"?:hides:

Haha! Didn't think of it that way. Ive found my new sig.... :ok:

TwinSisters
07-28-2006, 04:58 AM
So the story goes like this:

"Ragone, 26, played in only two games in his three seasons with the Texans. He started two contests as a rookie, when David Carr was injured, and completed 20 of 40 passes for 135 yards, with one interception. He also rushed for 51 yards on six carries.

But over the past two seasons, Ragone did not appear in a single game, and as a pure, dropback pocket passer, he was probably ill-suited for the offense being installed by Texans first-year coach Gary Kubiak this spring. That offense will require more mobility from the quarterback and movement skills have never been Ragone's strong suit.

On the revamped depth chart, Ragone had been replaced as the No. 3 quarterback by rookie Quinton Porter, an undrafted free agent from Boston College who has impressed the coaches. The Texans earlier in the spring signed former Miami backup Sage Rosenfels to take over the No. 2 spot behind Carr, a job held by veteran Tony Banks the past four seasons.

Ragone was the Texans' third-round choice in the 2003 draft, the 88th player selected that year, following a standout career at Louisville. He signed a three-year, $1.35 million contract that included a signing bonus of $440,000. Then, this year, the Texans retained his rights as a restricted free agent and earlier this month signed him to the one-year qualifying offer of $721,600.

By claiming Ragone on waivers, the Bengals inherit his one-year, $721,600 deal. Barring an extension, Ragone will be eligible for unrestricted free agency next spring. If the Bengals like what they see of him in camp, they likely will attempt to sign Ragone to a longer-term deal."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2456882
----

The Bengals did not like what they saw or they saw that Carson Palmer is going to be more then ready and then shopped Ragone around. ( Or the Rams came a knocking )

----
"The Rams' depth chart at quarterback got larger when the team acquired Dave Ragone from the Cincinnati Bengals. The Rams will give a seventh-round pick in the 2007 draft to the Texans only if Ragone makes the roster.

The timing of the move is odd considering that Ragone, a former third-round pick of the Houston Texans, was waived by Houston in May and the Rams did not put in a waiver claim at the time. Ragone was claimed by Cincinnati and Indianapolis, and was awarded to the Bengals."
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/STL/9545238


So in the end we get a 7th round pick if Ragone is on the roster.
We give up a 7th round pick if Pickett makes the roster.
---

So let's look at the 49ers for a second. Just to see if it will make us any smarter then we already are.

inked Alex Smith #1 overall. Typical Alex Smith conversation starter?
Mr. Obvious: Alex Smith was bad last year.
Voice of Reason: Yeah, but he was a rookie.
Mr. Obvious: Yeah, but he was really bad.
Voice of Reason: Yeah, but he had no help at all. The 49ers were a total wreck last year.
Mr. Obvious: Yeah, but he was really, really bad.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/wordpress/?p=94

They signed Trent Dilfer. - everybody should be at least familiar with him.
( and in all honesty, the one bright spot on their roster... If you got a Bulldog on the porch, sunshine, sunshine, sunshine. )

signed 3 year veteran Shaun Hill - back-up to Brad Johnson/Culpepper
( signed to Vikings because he is from Maryland, where Tice rolled )
Highlight of his career? Sealing a win on a pass to Mr.Irrelevant in the last seconds of a preseason game.
http://www.answers.com/topic/hoag-ryan

signed 5 year veteran Jesse Palmer - Yes. That Jesse Palmer... the one from that fruity TV show. Palmer was picked up under Fassel. He is so good that he makes Page 3 at ESPN.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page3/story?page=10bqs/jessepalmer

3 Pocket Passers that will be working under Norv Turner ( typically a vertical offense type of coach )

So it's not too hard to see that Pickett didn't fit. He's much worse. With a career high of 45 attempts and a passer rating of 16.4, it's obvious that he has lots of potential and just needed a new system.

Some things in life are bad
They can really make you mad
Other things just make you swear and curse.
When you're chewing on life's gristle
Don't grumble, give a whistle
And this'll help things turn out for the best...

And...always look on the bright side of life...
Always look on the light side of life...

:whistle:

TwinSisters
07-28-2006, 05:30 AM
I think the Bengals picked him up because they'd heard about someone named Ragone who'd knocked over a liquor store. Then they actually talked to him and found out it was a case of mistaken identity so they traded him to the Rams.

eheh. Well those guys do have Doug Johnson ( Vick's back-up ) and then Kyle Boller's and Quincy Carter's back-up in Anthony Wright.

They have no fear if Carson Palmer goes down.

Ab-solute-ly fear-less.

This is the guy that beat Ragone out in Cincy for place-kick holder 3rd string, Erik Meyer.
http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060513/SPT03/605130361/1035/SPT

Drafted by MLB three TIMES!

Major League Baseball teams have selected Erik Meyer three times in the last five drafts. Each time he has turned them down, including the Reds when they took him in the 37th round of the 2001 draft.

looks like a good prospect though.

P.S. Plus they have 12th man to pull out for the 5th

Toro
07-28-2006, 07:23 AM
just in case anyone is still wondering, KFFL says it is for a conditional draft pick. So basically, if Cody doesn't make the final roster, we will probably not lose a pick.



Texans | Team acquires Pickett from San Francisco
Thu, 27 Jul 2006 16:32:44 -0700

The Associated Press reports the Houston Texans have acquired QB Cody Pickett from the San Francisco 49ers in exchange for a conditional draft pick.

No harm, no foul. Even if Pickett DOES make the roster, I don't envision the pick being higher than a seventh rounder.

touttail
07-28-2006, 07:33 AM
WHAAAAAAAT !!!
A veteran QB with 4 interceptions and 4 fumbles in 6 games. Two of them as a starter. Think this dude has "butter fingers"!

Bobby 119C :stirpot:

infantrycak
07-28-2006, 08:10 AM
The Rams will give a seventh-round pick in the 2007 draft to the Texans only if Ragone makes the roster.

So in the end we get a 7th round pick if Ragone is on the roster.
We give up a 7th round pick if Pickett makes the roster.

Not sure which of these statements came from you and which from the link, but the Texans are not going to get anything for Ragone. The Bengels who claimed him off waivers and traded him to the Rams will receive the Rams 7th round pick if he makes the team--not the Texans.

CloakNNNdagger
07-28-2006, 08:44 AM
It came to me in a flash. I saw a pizza commercial and thought about the immortal career back-up, "Gueido Merkins". We just signed Giuseppe Slash.

Now THERE's a real veteran.........why couldn't we pick up someone like that..........can't argue with THESE stats. His "experience" alone deems him worthy of a 7th rounder.:sarcasm: ::hides:



Guido Merkins
+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1978 hou | 12 | 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 0 0 0 |
| 1979 hou | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 0 0 0 |
| 1980 nor | 1 | 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 0 0 0 |
| 1980 hou | 3 | 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 0 0 0 |
| 1981 nor | 16 | 1 2 50.0 20 10.0 0 0 | 2 -1 0 |
| 1982 nor | 9 | 18 49 36.7 186 3.8 1 2 | 9 30 0 |
| 1983 nor | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 1 16 0 |
| 1984 nor | 16 | 0 0 0.0 0 0.0 0 0 | 0 0 0 |
| 1985 nor | 16 | 1 1 100.0 7 7.0 1 0 | 1 -2 0 |
| 1987 phi | 3 | 7 14 50.0 70 5.0 0 0 | 3 -8 0 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| TOTAL | 108 | 27 66 40.9 283 4.3 2 2 | 16 35 0 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+

El Tejano
07-28-2006, 11:11 AM
I might not be correct but IMO, Ragone being left handed may have had more than alot to do with why we chose not to go with him. You think about all those bootlegs, and because he is already not mobile, him being left handed would limit him even more as far as mobility goes.

South Texan
07-28-2006, 11:21 AM
I might not be correct but IMO, Ragone being left handed may have had more than alot to do with why we chose not to go with him. You think about all those bootlegs, and because he is already not mobile, him being left handed would limit him even more as far as mobility goes.


Valid point.

powerfuldragon
07-28-2006, 11:39 AM
I hope pickett makes the team. he seems like one of those guys you want to see do well.

SnakeOilTanker
07-28-2006, 01:47 PM
you mean one of those guys that aren't very good but try hard?

the wonger need food
07-28-2006, 02:05 PM
Texans | Team trades a conditional seventh-round pick for Pickett
Fri, 28 Jul 2006 06:46:51 -0700

Kevin Lynch, of the San Francisco Chronicle, reports the San Francisco 49ers obtained a conditional seventh-round pick in next year's NFL Draft from the Houston Texans in exchange for QB Cody Pickett. The condition is probably Pickett making the team.

powerfuldragon
07-28-2006, 02:09 PM
you mean one of those guys that aren't very good but try hard?
from what i've read at the 9ers board, yeah. that's the impression i get.

Runner
07-28-2006, 02:23 PM
I might not be correct but IMO, Ragone being left handed may have had more than alot to do with why we chose not to go with him. You think about all those bootlegs, and because he is already not mobile, him being left handed would limit him even more as far as mobility goes.

I'm just using this post as a jumping off point; I'm not directly commenting to it.

One thing that drives me crazy in pre-season is that fans usually focus on every new player's strengths while disregarding weaknesses. For roster players, especially those that have been buried on depth chart, the focus is usually on weaknesses with no regard for strengths. Maybe it's because they weren't able to showcase their talents; I don't know.

In Ragone's case, we hear that he is immobile, a pocket passer, left-handed, etc. Well, there have been successful pocket passers and one or two lefties who could play. What we really never saw was Ragone's strengths. He did have some - he was a 3rd round pick in the NFL.

Obviously Ragone can play - he has done very well at every level he where has played consistent minutes, including the NFLe championship and MVP that many scoff at. The question is, how does a slow, immobile, left-handed pocket passer have any success?

Ragone's hidden strength was that he understands the game. That is a valuable asset in a QB, especially in one that keeps his cool and remains in the pocket passing. Whenever I've talked to a player for any length of time over the past couple of years coaching frequently came up. I'd ask if they'd ever coach, or who on the team would be a good coach. More often than not, Ragone's name came up as the player who would be a successful coach if he wanted to. I think that is interesting.

I think Ragone may surprise some people when he gets a shot at some playing time. I wish him well; for him it was best that he moved on.

Bartkoman
07-28-2006, 02:25 PM
I dont know if this has already been asked (I didnt read all of the threads), but the Texans cant carry four QBs. I've heard that Porter (Undrafted) did well in the spring and impressed the coaches, so I really dont understand this trade.

I guess it wont hurt if they end up waiving Pickett though.

tsip
07-28-2006, 03:07 PM
Don't the Broncos carry only 2 QB's?

tsip
07-28-2006, 03:14 PM
"I think Ragone may surprise some people when he gets a shot at some playing time. I wish him well; for him it was best that he moved on."
__________________
RUNNER

...good points in your post about Ragone! Now, playing for his college coach where he was a 3 time Conference Offensive MVP, I'm sure Dave will get a chance to play w/o being stereotyped like he has been in Houston. Too, while he jumped at the chance to play in Europe, Cody refused to go--not the kind of guy I'd pick over anybody, let alone Ragone.

CloakNNNdagger
07-28-2006, 03:46 PM
I might not be correct but IMO, Ragone being left handed may have had more than alot to do with why we chose not to go with him. You think about all those bootlegs, and because he is already not mobile, him being left handed would limit him even more as far as mobility goes.


Taking that a step further, there may be a hesitance to have a right handed QB backed up by a left handed one. The mechanics are different. Receivers get the ball at angles different from LH QB than those thrown by a RH QB. And much has been made by WRs about handling of the ball with the opposite spin of the spirals. Roll outs to different directions, hand offs from different sides/angles, etc. When the 1st team is preparing all week or most of a season with a RH QB, and in comes a LH QB, I can see how this could make things a little more awkward than if a another RH QB takes over.

THEFUTURE
07-28-2006, 05:00 PM
here in San Francisco, Pickett was nothing more than a fan favorite... played in a couple games. He may get cut by the end of camp once the coaches really get a look at him. he should go back to rodeo.

the wonger need food
07-28-2006, 05:25 PM
here in San Francisco, Pickett was nothing more than a fan favorite... played in a couple games. He may get cut by the end of camp once the coaches really get a look at him. he should go back to rodeo.

Hopefully Porter will beat him out so we don't have to give up the draft pick.

DominickDavisFan76
07-28-2006, 05:37 PM
If there was a QB option why didnt we just take Omar Jacobs, cuz everyone knows he is gonna be a great in the NFL....

THEFUTURE
07-28-2006, 05:42 PM
Hopefully Porter will beat him out so we don't have to give up the draft pick.
seriously... you know they want to have another vet... but pickett isn't a vet, sure he has been in the league for a few years.. but he has little experience. and if he doesn't get cut, and we somehow end up needing a 3rd string quarterback to play, i go with porter over pickett... get porter the experience, because we will be losing the game either way

TexansSeminole
07-28-2006, 06:46 PM
He's just an athletic guy. Probably will barely make the team. I think Kubiak just wants to get some talented guys in here and make players like Carr tap into their talent.

CloakNNNdagger
07-28-2006, 07:09 PM
He's just an athletic guy. Probably will barely make the team. I think Kubiak just wants to get some talented guys in here and make players like Carr tap into their talent.

***************************
From Fox Sports:

The Texans traded a conditional seventh-round pick in 2007 for San Francisco 49ers backup QB Cody Pickett. Pickett, a seventh-round pick in 2004, will likely be the third-string quarterback in Houston. Kubiak said Pickett first caught his eye last season and that the Texans have been trying to get him for some time but that the 49ers finally agreed to the deal Thursday. "We got a very good athlete, a very tough young man," Kubiak said. "That gives us somebody with a little bit of experience." Houston released QB Matt Baker to make room for Pickett on the roster. ...

Link (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5824522)

threetoedpete
07-29-2006, 10:53 AM
I'm just using this post as a jumping off point; I'm not directly commenting to it.

One thing that drives me crazy in pre-season is that fans usually focus on every new player's strengths while disregarding weaknesses.
Obviously Ragone can play - ........
I think Ragone may surprise some people when he gets a shot at some playing time. I wish him well; for him it was best that he moved on.
Agree: The only thing that agrovates me is if Dave had value, I would have though that Mr. Smith would have beet the bushes a bit. Not saying it "is " going to happen but I hope we can get more than "a six pack and two ham sandwiches"* for TJ.

*Reportedly, Buddy Ryans to press as Eagles coach befor trading Carter.

threetoedpete
07-29-2006, 10:56 AM
***************************
From Fox Sports:



Link (http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5824522)
Obviously, This IS Kubiak's guy. 'Nuff said. N1 Doc.

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 11:00 AM
Not sure which of these statements came from you and which from the link, but the Texans are not going to get anything for Ragone. The Bengels who claimed him off waivers and traded him to the Rams will receive the Rams 7th round pick if he makes the team--not the Texans.

It's from the article. I have no idea how things are really working anymore with the new CBA. At least not the details.

What I gathered was that because the Bengals didn't pay Ragone, they traded the claim to the Rams and thus the Rams would have to pony up the 7th rounder to the Texans instead of the Bengals.

Meaning that part of the deal was passed to the Rams.

CloakNNNdagger
07-29-2006, 11:20 AM
It's from the article. I have no idea how things are really working anymore with the new CBA. At least not the details.

What I gathered was that because the Bengals didn't pay Ragone, they traded the claim to the Rams and thus the Rams would have to pony up the 7th rounder to the Texans instead of the Bengals.

Meaning that part of the deal was passed to the Rams.

I've never heard of draft picks empirically linked to waivered players.......As far as I know, once waived, the waiving club has no rights of any sort to the player, whether or not he is picked up or clears.

Here's something that should help us understand what really happened in this confusing set of moves:

Colts wanted Ragone: Many people were surprised when the St. Louis Rams traded a conditional draft pick to the Bengals for backup quarterback Dave Ragone about a month ago, and then gave him a $100,000 signing bonus to boot. The former Texans backup was brought to Cincinnati earlier this year when the Bengals, Colts and Patriots put in a claim for his services. The Rams reportedly didn't put a waiver claim on him at the time because they didn't want to pay his one-year $721,600 salary. They wanted to negotiate a deal that would have lowered his cap hit if he cleared waivers. When they learned the Bengals were considering waiving him, they asked for permission to work out a two-year deal with Ragone in exchange
for a pick as they believed at least the Colts would put in another waiver claim.
link (http://colts.scout.com/2/549200.html)

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 12:48 PM
I've never heard of draft picks empirically linked to waivered players.......As far as I know, once waived, the waiving club has no rights of any sort to the player, whether or not he is picked up or clears.

Here's something that should help us understand what really happened in this confusing set of moves:


well I would never hold it against a person that doesn't understand NFL contract terminology that is for sure.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/agentarc.htm
( granted this is from 2004 ... the OLD terminology )

if you browse through this article, you will run across something that talks about the difference between being "released" and "waived"

Ragone was waived not released or cut. ( to my knowledge anyhow )

The old rules had terminology set for compensation that had to be paid for restricted free agents and/or players under 3 or 4 years of contract.

Ragone was the Texans' third-round choice in the 2003 draft, the 88th player selected that year, following a standout career at Louisville. He signed a three-year, $1.35 million contract that included a signing bonus of $440,000. Then, this spring, the Texans retained his rights as a restricted free agent and signed him to the one-year qualifying offer of $721,600. The Rams inherit that one-year deal.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2492402

NEXT year he can become a unrestricted free agent... and then the pick is not going to follow him.

this might help a little bit too
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9573967

CloakNNNdagger
07-29-2006, 01:10 PM
well I would never hold it against a person that doesn't understand NFL contract terminology that is for sure.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/agentarc.htm
( granted this is from 2004 ... the OLD terminology )

if you browse through this article, you will run across something that talks about the difference between being "released" and "waived"

Ragone was waived not released or cut. ( to my knowledge anyhow )

The old rules had terminology set for compensation that had to be paid for restricted free agents and/or players under 3 or 4 years of contract.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2492402

NEXT year he can become a unrestricted free agent... and then the pick is not going to follow him.

this might help a little bit too
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/9573967


Then there seems to be conflicting reports. According to the 1st link, the requirement is for "more than 4 credited years"....Ragaone has had 4..

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 01:25 PM
Then there seems to be conflicting reports. According to the 1st link, the requirement is for "more than 4 credited years"....Ragaone has had 4..

Right. Ragone has to have less 4 or less OR otherwise the Texans could not have tagged him as a "restricted" free agent.

Then Ragone would be an "unrestricted" free agent. UFA's do not require compensation. RFA's do require compensation to the holding team. ( in this case the Texans )

Since Ragone is a RFA, there must be a draft pick tagged with him. The ESPN article leaves that part out.

( actually I don't know if there must be a draft pick assigned.. I just know that CBS reported us as getting a 7th round conditional from the Bengals when the first deal went down. I have to assume that the pick follows the original deal because otherwise you could cheat the system )


http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/afc-restricted

This link is better at explaining some of it.

It looks like the new CBA lowers the limit to 3 years and Ragone was grandfathered... or he didn't get credit for everything. I have no idea how they count NFLe experience though.

Bottom line is that he is a RFA. We get something for him.

CloakNNNdagger
07-29-2006, 03:31 PM
OK TwinSisters, I'll have to defer to you on this one, but I wish the media would get their reports and their act together.:brickwall

I have to edit this post now that I just have come across a source (USA Today) listing Ragone as a restricted FA (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2006-free-agents.htm) but the requirement for UFA as "4 or more seasons" (Ragone 3 years). This essentially goes along with what you were saying.

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 05:26 PM
OK TwinSisters, I'll have to defer to you on this one, but I wish the media would get their reports and their act together.:brickwall

I have to edit this post now that I just have come across a source (USA Today) listing Ragone as a restricted FA (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/2006-free-agents.htm) but the requirement for UFA as "4 or more seasons" (Ragone 3 years). This essentially goes along with what you were saying.

Yeah I couldn't really figure it out either. I just saw that the 7th round pick would be shipped to the Texans from the Bengals from some CBS line.

The player cards will list the guys at 4 year experience, but that is not always true because they are already counting this upcoming season as one year ( when they really only have 3 ).

The other part is credited 4 years... will a guy like Joppru count as 3 credited years on a contract? I don't know.

It's not easy to figure out!

texanfan2100
07-29-2006, 05:48 PM
Yeah I couldn't really figure it out either. I just saw that the 7th round pick would be shipped to the Texans from the Bengals from some CBS line.

The player cards will list the guys at 4 year experience, but that is not always true because they are already counting this upcoming season as one year ( when they really only have 3 ).

The other part is credited 4 years... will a guy like Joppru count as 3 credited years on a contract? I don't know.

It's not easy to figure out!

I'm coming in on the end of this topic, but I think the Texans lost all compensation rights to Ragone when he was cut. They renounced his rights when that happened, so they get no compensation. He wasn't a "free agent," he was cut. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 05:56 PM
I'm coming in on the end of this topic, but I think the Texans lost all compensation rights to Ragone when he was cut. They renounced his rights when that happened, so they get no compensation. He wasn't a "free agent," he was cut. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

no, that's the thing.

I do not believe he was ever cut.

He was placed on waivers. That's different. If he does not make the roster of another team, then we lose compensation. That's the way it should be working and the way it has worked in the past.

The Rams' depth chart at quarterback got larger when the team acquired Dave Ragone from the Cincinnati Bengals. The Rams will give a seventh-round pick in the 2007 draft to the Texans only if Ragone makes the roster.

that's the CBS line

vtech9
07-29-2006, 06:09 PM
no that's thing.

I do not believe he was ever cut.

He was placed on waivers. That's different. If he does not make the roster of another team, then we lose compensation. That's the way it should be working and the way it has worked in the past.
the difference is that the BENGALS picked him up off of waivers, taking his contract, making him theirs, and then worked out the trade. Once the Bengals picked him up, we lost all rights to him. The only thing the Texans can hope to gain is some sort of compensatory pick in the next draft from the NFL.

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 06:29 PM
anyhoo enough of this contract talk. Get enough of that in the courts.

:blah: :yap

Cody Pickett is here.

And this is how its going to go down....

it's late.
the final seconds of the 4th quarter are rolling off the clock.
The crowd breaks out, "Shut the Gates. Shut the Gates. Shut the Gates. Shut The Gates..."
Kubiak looks over shoulder.
the head nods.
Calhoun points.
the man takes the field.
the snap.
the knee.
three times.
the clock expires.

Houston has it's first route, Cody "Shut-the-Gates-of-Mercy" Pickett

Beat em so bad that the third string quarterback is taking the knee!!
:whoohoo:

That's my dream.

( this week )

( and it better be against someone besides the Browns )

texanfan2100
07-29-2006, 06:29 PM
no that's thing.

I do not believe he was ever cut.

He was placed on waivers. That's different. If he does not make the roster of another team, then we lose compensation. That's the way it should be working and the way it has worked in the past.



that's the CBS line


Whatever the situation is, the Texans came off looking bad. I understand the Sharper, Glenn, and Walker transactions. They are older players, and teams would just wait for them to be released instead of trading for them.

Ragone, however, turned into a draft pick for another team. They didn't even try to trade him. :brickwall :brickwall :brickwall Okay, deep breath. I'm okay now.

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 06:37 PM
the difference is that the BENGALS picked him up off of waivers, taking his contract, making him theirs, and then worked out the trade. Once the Bengals picked him up, we lost all rights to him. The only thing the Texans can hope to gain is some sort of compensatory pick in the next draft from the NFL.

Ahhhh no more contract talk. :D
( just kidding )

Right. And we get the draft pick. If the Bengals trade him, we get the draft pick from the team that he is traded to. Which I guess is a 7th rounder.

Supposedly anyway.

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 06:50 PM
Ragone, however, turned into a draft pick for another team.

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/STL/9545238

From what I see. We are getting the 7th round pick from the Rams, if he makes the roster.

vtech9
07-29-2006, 06:57 PM
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/STL/9545238

From what I see. We are getting the 7th round pick from the Rams, if he makes the roster.
and I think that is nothing more than a typo on their part. Ask yourself this...Why would you trade a guy for a pick when you aren't the one that will recieve it. What I'm saying is this, if the Bengals weren't going to get the pick, they would have either kept him or waived him. They wouldn't have traded him to help out another team and get nothing in return for it.

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 07:20 PM
and I think that is nothing more than a typo on their part. Ask yourself this...Why would you trade a guy for a pick when you aren't the one that will recieve it. What I'm saying is this, if the Bengals weren't going to get the pick, they would have either kept him or waived him. They wouldn't have traded him to help out another team and get nothing in return for it.

O yeah for sure it could be an error. It wouldn't be the first.

Why sign the guy for 716k or whatever it was earlier in the month, if you were going to cut him without any compensation?

The Bengals I believe are getting a pick from the Rams.

hmmm

So we should be getting a pick from the Bengals then.

I do believe I saw we get a pick form the Bengals when he was picked up off of waivers.

EDIT:

Hell if I know. I looked at the Bengals site and they say he was cut with no compensation to the Texans.

Vinny
07-29-2006, 07:22 PM
I do believe I saw we get a pick form the Bengals when he was picked up off of waivers.we aren't going to get a pick because a team picked up a guy we cut. He isn't our property once we cut him.

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 07:36 PM
we aren't going to get a pick because a team picked up a guy we cut. He isn't our property once we cut him.

yeah I just saw that at the Bengals site. I thought he was put on the block under RFA restrictions.

So what does the RFA signing do for us? the one year deal earlier this year that he signed for ( before we cut him ).

texan279
07-29-2006, 07:38 PM
yeah I just saw that at the Bengals site. I thought he was put on the block under RFA restrictions.

So what does the RFA signing do for us? the one year deal earlier this year that he signed for ( before we cut him ).

Does nothing for us...

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 07:44 PM
Does nothing for us...

So what does it do for Ragone? I mean if we were doing him a favour, wouldn't we just cut him high and dry so that teams could deal with him however they want? And why does the contract that he signed with us follow him? If he is cut that contract should be over?

I saw Kubiak's release about how he wanted to help him out and how he just didn't think he was going to fit here. Along with something about how he likes to move his QBs around a lot.

( which is good in itself! Gone is the dumb idea of drop back pockets without any good tackles )

GuerillaBlack
07-29-2006, 07:47 PM
That's what San Francisco gets for taking our Olympic Bid.