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nunusguy
07-27-2006, 04:41 PM
Former Texas quarterback Vince Young has agreed to a six-year contract with the Titans that includes $25.7 million guaranteed money, according to a person with knowledge of the negotations.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4076969.html

TexanSam
07-27-2006, 04:44 PM
Geez, the #3 pick can make more than the #1 pick overall. Williams makes more guaranteed money though.

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2006, 04:50 PM
John McClain reports to 610 Radio that Young has signed for purported 25.7 Million guaranteed/ 58 million total deal.

Agent Major Adams has negotiated a contract that could be worth as much as $58 million.

This must mean the deal is laden with incentives to be earned.


CHRONICLE ARTICLE DETAILS (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4076969.html)

powerfuldragon
07-27-2006, 04:51 PM
congratulations are in store for the titans.

real
07-27-2006, 04:55 PM
Man...Thats like a slap to reggies face...think hes gonna ask for more than VY now ???

jerek
07-27-2006, 04:56 PM
Wow. Congrats to Vince Young's agent ...

powerfuldragon
07-27-2006, 04:57 PM
http://www.titansonline.com/news/newsmain_detail.php?PRKey=3874

that's the news item at the titans website.

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2006, 04:57 PM
Crossed your thread, sorry

powerfuldragon
07-27-2006, 04:58 PM
Wow. Congrats to Vince Young's agent ...
bud adams probably only signed off on it to make houston look bad. deluded old toupee-wearing turncoat.

nunusguy
07-27-2006, 05:01 PM
IMO the inexperienced Adams would be a liability for VY, but no way. He was
the deal closer for Vince while the bumbling West Coast agent Segal (I think that's his name), screwed up the first round pick for Bush and is eating Vince's dust again as the UT grad heads to the bank with his big payday.
Kudos to VY and his agent Major Adams. And so much for the Wonderlic score - no big deal, which I was dead wrong about to.

MorKnolle
07-27-2006, 05:02 PM
Vince's deal is worth up to $58 million if he reaches all his incentives, who knows the likelihood of getting all of those. According to PFT Mario can earn up to $62 million with all his incentives. I wonder if they'll ever report what Vince got for his base contract value without incentives. Good luck to Reggie getting Benson to pony up that kind of dough, he could be in for a long hold out.

http://www.profootballtalk.com/rumormill.htm

The Dude Abides
07-27-2006, 05:02 PM
It's good to see McClain is putting more interest in VY than the Texans. Bravo :brickwall

nunusguy
07-27-2006, 05:05 PM
It's good to see McClain is putting more interest in VY than the Texans. Bravo :brickwall
Yea, but gotta give "Hollywood" some credit, he finally scooped a story.

chuckm
07-27-2006, 05:06 PM
Yea, but gotta give "Hollywood" some credit, he finally scooped a story.


he was probably in the room while they negotiated .....

powerfuldragon
07-27-2006, 05:07 PM
he was probably in the room while they negotiated .....
with his lips firmly planted on VY's hindquarters.

HOU-TEX
07-27-2006, 05:14 PM
with his lips firmly planted on VY's hindquarters.

And his hand on Bud Adams hide quarters:crying:

Nawzer
07-27-2006, 05:17 PM
Congrats to VY and his family. There was some doubt as to how his agent Major Adams would do and looks like this is a good deal for both sides.

Errant Hothy
07-27-2006, 05:32 PM
So much does Reggie ask for now? And how much more likely is a lenghty hold out?

Good for Vince on the deal, I hope (as I do for all kids who sigh these insane contracts) that he is smart with his money. Just look at the modern lives of MC Hammer and Vanilla Ice, if you need an example.

TexansLucky13
07-27-2006, 05:37 PM
Sucks for the Saints... Reggie is gunna want the whole cookie AND some milk to wash it down. Makes our pick look and feel even better, no matter how many :homer: 's crawl out of the woodworks.

I hope (as I do for all kids who sigh these insane contracts) that he is smart with his money

No parties with Mike Vick for VY if thats the case.

nunusguy
07-27-2006, 05:38 PM
when you put your stuff out there we are bound to be wrong here and there since none of us are psychic. No shame in that. Young is a decent kid who comes from Houston so I've always grimaced when the locals were grilling him. I've never quite understood this but it is what it is. Personally I thought people were acting in a virtual mob mentality when it came to the anti-Vince beat-down as the mob predicted him dropping like a rock and being so dumb he hired some ghetto trained pimp dog Uncle to represent him. So far he has taken to the offense well and he set his family up financially for the rest of their lives. Good for Vince. I'm glad we have one of our own locals doing good things. We just need to find a way to beat him when we face him.
Fair enough.
I've been critical of VY, both the player's potential in the NFL and the wisdom of the Texans taking him. And I'm still glad we didn't draft him, but I may yet need to admit to being wrong about that also.
But I wish Vince nothing but the best in the NFL now that he's got a done deal with the Titans. Except of course when he's playing you know who.

Nawzer
07-27-2006, 05:46 PM
I think the Texans would've had Reggie Bush signed, sealed, and delivered if we drafted him. The Texans are good at getting their players in and on time.

aj.
07-27-2006, 05:46 PM
This will make watching the Reggie situation even more fun. It can go either of two ways. 1) The slot is now set (in terms of guaranteed money) so they can slide him right in; or 2) Benson could play the "Bud overpaid Vince" card - which he did relative to the #1 overall pick - and that could lead to a protracted holdout by Bush. I'm sure Benson is not happy with Bud.

Someone was asking about the value of Vince's base without incentives. If you check nflpa.org in a few weeks, the yearly breakdown of base salary will be posted there under Active Players.

HOU-TEX
07-27-2006, 05:47 PM
Fair enough.
I've been critical of VY, both the player's potential in the NFL and the wisdom of the Texans taking him. And I'm still glad we didn't draft him, but I may yet need to admit to being wrong about that also.
But I wish Vince nothing but the best in the NFL now that he's got a done deal with the Titans. Except of course when he's playing you know who.

It's like a double edge sword for me. I didn't want the Texans to draft him and I also didn't want to see him go to the titans. Being a Texas fan and loving the fact that he helped get them the Championship I can only wish him the best as well. Hopefully he carries himself well in the NFL(unlike the Vick way).:redtowel:

Errant Hothy
07-27-2006, 05:51 PM
No parties with Mike Vick for VY if thats the case.

That would be good for VY on so many levels.

Avoid Ron Mexico!

Anguyen
07-27-2006, 05:52 PM
bud adams probably only signed off on it to make houston look bad. deluded old toupee-wearing turncoat.
how ? it make Texans deal with #1 look good.
i though Texans over paid Mario, I guess I wrong now

aj.
07-27-2006, 05:59 PM
Bud might do things to spite Houston but I highly doubt he was scheming on this one. They wanted him in camp and he wanted to be in camp. And Bud overpaid a bit to get it done.

TwinSisters
07-27-2006, 06:03 PM
Hmmm so they really wanted to get him in camp uh?

For a guy that is supposedly going to ride the bench 'learning' and getting 'adjusted' that sure does sound strange.

It sure looks like they are going to roll him out sooner then I originally thought they would ( or what Fisher said he would do ).

aj.
07-27-2006, 06:07 PM
I have a feeling he'll be starting by mid-season*, whether he's ready or not. And he won't be ready, based on history.

*That is unless Volek does the impossible and leads them to a 5-3 or better start or something...

CloakNNNdagger
07-27-2006, 06:14 PM
I have a feeling he'll be starting by mid-season*, whether he's ready or not. And he won't be ready, based on history.

*That is unless Volek does the impossible and leads them to a 5-3 or better start or something...

Stupid, but I agree.

BTW, aj, if this helps any, I found something that I jotted down some time ago about Mario's contract:

1st year-275000
2nd year-975000
3rd year-1500000
4th year-2300000
5th year-3025000
6th year-option??

Tulip
07-27-2006, 06:33 PM
I think the Texans would've had Reggie Bush signed, sealed, and delivered if we drafted him. The Texans are good at getting their players in and on time.

It helps that the Texans try to avoid drafting potential holdouts.

LORK 88
07-27-2006, 07:03 PM
for some reason, i bet Bud Adams shelled out all this money because he thinks he's going 1 up on Houston. Way to show us up Bud . . .

TD
07-27-2006, 07:13 PM
My memory may be failing me, but weren't the Oilers always pretty good at signing their draft picks? Seems like the problems usually came when players wanted to re-negotiate.

powerfuldragon
07-27-2006, 07:47 PM
Bud might do things to spite Houston but I highly doubt he was scheming on this one. They wanted him in camp and he wanted to be in camp. And Bud overpaid a bit to get it done.
I was joking. A lot of people like to blame Bud Adams for lots of things.

Anguyen
07-27-2006, 08:09 PM
I have a feeling he'll be starting by mid-season*, whether he's ready or not. And he won't be ready, based on history.

*That is unless Volek does the impossible and leads them to a 5-3 or better start or something...
I am looking forward to Dec. 10, 2006

Ironist
07-27-2006, 08:11 PM
According to Yahoo! Sports, Young ultimately could earn more than Williams if both get the max out of their contracts.

Does anyone still think Bush is greedy for not being happy with $22 Million guaranteed? Or do they think he's a "jerk" and "character-plagued" guy for not just taking that?

Its all part of the contract-game, like I said.

disaacks3
07-27-2006, 09:07 PM
According to Yahoo! Sports, Young ultimately could earn more than Williams if both get the max out of their contracts.

Does anyone still think Bush is greedy for not being happy with $22 Million guaranteed? Or do they think he's a "jerk" and "character-plagued" guy for not just taking that?

Its all part of the contract-game, like I said. You're making an assumption that these #'s would still be this high if the Texans hadn't paid Mario what they did. Remember, the Texans "set the bar" for the "salary slotting" game.

I'm still betting Mario's deal is better on the 'likely to earn' portion of the contract incentives.

I'm happy for VY, and happy that his agent finally did something right for a change. :stirpot:

jerek
07-27-2006, 10:06 PM
IMO the inexperienced Adams would be a liability for VY, but no way. He was
the deal closer for Vince while the bumbling West Coast agent Segal (I think that's his name), screwed up the first round pick for Bush and is eating Vince's dust again as the UT grad heads to the bank with his big payday.
Kudos to VY and his agent Major Adams. And so much for the Wonderlic score - no big deal, which I was dead wrong about to.

So much for the Wonderlic? Not to drive this thread off topic, but what does that have to do with anything? Vince can score a 2 and still know how to sign his name ...

I still don't think it means VY will suck at football. I still think it means he is a lazy thinker who thought he was too cool to put forth an effort on a standardized test, and will take some serious time getting acclimated to the pro game. It definitely means I'm not inviting him to any charity spelling bee any time soon.

aj.
07-27-2006, 10:24 PM
Dan Marino had one of the lowest Wunderlic scores of all time for QBs. There have been flops that have aced it. Wunderlic shmunderlic..

Honoring Earl 34
07-27-2006, 10:45 PM
AJ , would your avatar like the mango salsa with its duck?

Reggie has his contract negotiated for him now , he just needs to sign . I will say this ... it would be hard to give a RB twenty six million guarateed .

jshlr4343
07-27-2006, 11:04 PM
According to www.rotoworld.com

Mario - Signed a six-year, $54 million contract on 5/26/2006. The deal includes $26.5 million in guarantees, when the Texans pay Williams $12 million to exercise their option for a sixth season on the contract. By exercising the option, the Texans reduce the salaries in Years 2-5 of the contract -- to $975,000 (2007), $1.575 million (2008), $2.3 million (2009) and $3.025 million (2010) -- and add the 2011 season at a base salary of $3.725 million.

Young - Signed a six-year contract on 7/27/2006. The deal can be worth up to $58 million if all incentives are reached. $25.74 million of the package is guaranteed, including a $12.3 million option bonus due in March 2007, a $2.665 million roster bonus due in 2006, and a one-time bonus of $4.1 million should Young take 35 percent of the snaps as a rookie, or 45 percent of the snaps in any subsequent year.

mexican_texan
07-27-2006, 11:35 PM
Hold your horses--Vince Young might not have gotten so great a deal. What happens if he doesn't reach those incentives, what are the base salaries? If he is a bust like I hope and he's cut after two years, like I hope, his deal won't be as good as Mario's under the same circumstances.

infantrycak
07-28-2006, 12:00 AM
the guaranteed money is the key to all contracts and his is just short of Mario's.

The key is also what is really guaranteed (from above):

The deal includes $26.5 million in guarantees, when the Texans pay Williams $12 million to exercise their option for a sixth season on the contract.

An option bonus is not guaranteed. This would be the same as Carr's $8 mil bonus being called guaranteed (I have seen a different report saying $8 mil bonus to exercise the last two years of Mario's contract, but in any event)--it is only guaranteed once the option is exercised, i.e. not guaranteed at all. Terms are being played with fast and loose here.

infantrycak
07-28-2006, 12:14 AM
understood...but it's due March 2007. He would have to be a bust of colossal proportions not to get this since he will probably not even play a half of year this season.

Which contract are you talking about? I was just making a general comment that folks in general need to look at what really makes up the guaranteed money. Carr's option bonus (where similar bonuses are being described as guaranteed for Mario and VY) was not due to be exercised until after his 4th year. He had a prior one to reduce salaries which was also exercised. Just pointing out the accounting isn't quite as simple as the news reports make it seem.

aj.
07-28-2006, 07:38 AM
Options, buybacks, roster bonuses, workout bonuses, voidable years and inflated bases in the out-years all factor into the bloated contract value numbers that are published.

Focus on the guaranteed money, i.e., signing bonus and guaranteed base (which is becoming more common on the high end contracts) when comparing these deals.

nunusguy
07-28-2006, 08:48 AM
So much for the Wonderlic? Not to drive this thread off topic, but what does that have to do with anything? Vince can score a 2 and still know how to sign his name ...

That's exactly my point, it's not relavant. It is meaningless. VY almost surely scored in the single digits on his first attempt while Leinert reportedly scored very high. Maybe in the 30s as I recall ? However VY goes #3 and Leinert almost falls out of the top 10. And these guys are of course QBs, the one position where Wonderlic scores were thought to have a positive correlation to a players potential to succeed at the next level.
I really don't see any point in continuing to administer these tests since the
market, which is all the matters ultimately, says it doesn't give a squat about a guys score.

Chicagotexan1
07-28-2006, 10:08 AM
Well I must say that I was one of amny that thought getting this agent was a bad idea. So much for that notion. This guy came through for Young way better than Team Bush has so far.

jerek
07-28-2006, 10:35 AM
That's exactly my point, it's not relavant. It is meaningless. VY almost surely scored in the single digits on his first attempt while Leinert reportedly scored very high. Maybe in the 30s as I recall ? However VY goes #3 and Leinert almost falls out of the top 10. And these guys are of course QBs, the one position where Wonderlic scores were thought to have a positive correlation to a players potential to succeed at the next level.
I really don't see any point in continuing to administer these tests since the
market, which is all the matters ultimately, says it doesn't give a squat about a guys score.

There is a lot of testing that goes on at the Combine past published measurables, and it factors into the decision to draft a player to varying degrees. The Wonderlic is simply one of those tests (others include the obvious background checks, basic psychiatric evaluations, as well as very detailed, prolonged physical exams, etc.) In the scheme of things and especially in regards to a celebrated, obviously talented and historically successful player like Vince Young, will his low Wonderlic crucify his draft status? --obviously not -- but it is nevertheless a viable factor, one of many that is considered, and is more probable to play a larger role in later round decisions.

To me, VY's low Wonderlic didn't indicate lack of intelligence (since I scored 10/10 in a practice test in 50 seconds; "a caveman could do it") but rather a lack of effort, or possibly the feeling that he thinks he is too good or too cool to bother. That to me is indicative of a potential attitude problem moreso than a basic, can-he-read-a-defense question. I think VY is a lazy thinker and that he will struggle in the pro game (or rather, not achieve all that he is capable of) so long as he relies only on his athleticism to get it done for him. But I don't say this to start another bash-VY post; I think he will be good and possibly great, I just think he will struggle at points along the way.

People made a big deal about VY and the Wonderlic because it really is sub-moronic that VY got a 6 on it ... I don't think any serious analysts were subsequently genuinely questioning his ability to play football. It was overblown sure, but I don't think that score alone really shuffled Vince on any team's draft boards. Teams typically conduct prolonged and very detailed interviews (and incorporate the results of those many other tests I mentioned) with potential draft choices and it's simply not possible for one bad intelligence test score to significantly alter their opinion of the guy. And people would talk the same talk if it were revealed in tomorrow's paper that Brad Pitt scored a 40 on an IQ test ... IMO it was mostly just celebrity gossip, at a time where VY was one of the nation's and especially the sports world's hottest celebrities.

Your suggestion that "the market" is all that matters is offbase IMO, considering that "the market" here in Houston were screaming for Bush or Young and got neither.

As far as VY going ahead of Leinart, I've heard from multiple sources that Bud was hellbent on drafting VY and I've heard conflicting reports that Tennessee's coaching staff wanted Leinart but were vetoed. So I wouldn't make too much out of VY going ahead of Leinart, as if that is indicative of either skill or potential in this league.

jerek
07-28-2006, 10:37 AM
Well I must say that I was one of amny that thought getting this agent was a bad idea. So much for that notion. This guy came through for Young way better than Team Bush has so far.

Different owners, different situations. As MorKnolle has pointed out, "Team Bush" consists of Joel Segal who (a) typically waits until the last possible minute to sign his players, and (b) was certain to wait and see what VY got before he seriously negotiated Bush's contract any way. Not to mention (c) Benson is a notoriously tight owner, while (d) there is strong rumor that Bud Adams loves VY and thus it seems, would be willing to shell out top dollar for him.

tulexan
07-28-2006, 10:45 AM
"it would be hard to give a RB twenty six million guarateed"...??WHY??


Probably because they have the shortest shelf life of any other position.

nunusguy
07-28-2006, 10:53 AM
"Your suggestion that "the market" is all that matters is offbase IMO, considering that "the market" here in Houston were screaming for Bush or Young and got neither."
*******************************
"The market" I'm referring to Jerek is the NFL college Draft. It is the final talent evaluator of college football players entering the NFL as defined by the collective capital, both financial and intellectual, of the NFL.

chuckm
07-28-2006, 11:04 AM
Kinda bad when you hope a hometown player and someone that help bring the College Championship to you're home state is a bust. What has he done for you to wish ill will against him??


I can't speak for mexican_texan but as for me .....


I fall into a group of people that were happy UT won the Championship and were happy that the effort was led by a Houstonian ....

However, shortly after the gun sounded on the Rose Bowl there began a Vince Young saturation that became at times comical and at other times almost unbearable ... it reminded me of eating my Grandmother's peanut butter fudge at Christmas time .... the first couple of pieces were awesome but after that I didn't want to see any fudge for months ....

The Dream
07-28-2006, 11:11 AM
I am looking forward to Dec. 10, 2006

So is Vince, but to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if Vince is the starter by the time the reg. season roles around.....but congrats on the big contract.....something tells me Bush won't be signing with N.O.

chuckm
07-28-2006, 11:15 AM
I see exactly what you're saying but do you hope that VY is a bust??



The Texans are in the AFC South
The Titans are in the AFC South
Vince Young is a Titan
I'm a Texan fan

therefore ............


Yes I hope he's a bust .....


and I hope Joseph Addai is a bust, and I hope Matt Jones is a bust, Lendale White, ..... you see where I'm heading with this?

gwallaia
07-28-2006, 11:35 AM
Kinda bad when you hope a hometown player and someone that help bring the College Championship to you're home state is a bust. What has he done for you to wish ill will against him??

Some people in the State of Texas despise the University of Texas.

gwallaia
07-28-2006, 11:40 AM
Really? why?? (no sarcasim here) just didn't know that. Is it a U.T/Aggie thing??

Its more than just Aggies.

powerfuldragon
07-28-2006, 11:41 AM
Really? why?? (no sarcasim here) just didn't know that. Is it a U.T/Aggie thing??
Not always. I can't really explain it because i'm apathetic towards the school.

mexican_texan
07-28-2006, 12:18 PM
The Texans are in the AFC South
The Titans are in the AFC South
Vince Young is a Titan
I'm a Texan fan

therefore ............


Yes I hope he's a bust .....


and I hope Joseph Addai is a bust, and I hope Matt Jones is a bust, Lendale White, ..... you see where I'm heading with this?
'sactly. He played for my team in college, but he's an enemy now.

cuppacoffee
07-28-2006, 12:46 PM
Really? why?? (no sarcasim here) just didn't know that. Is it a U.T/Aggie thing??

TU has a long history of 'using' their student athletes.
True fans of College Football detest this abysmal practice.

Poor graduation rates, ill prepared for life after football.

From PFW
" Why this is important: After all, these are supposed to be student-athletes out there playing. This is a good indicator for how much emphasis a program places on academics rather than simply using the football players for their on-the-field talents."

According to CollegeFootballNews...... TU is ranked below the following Texas schools in graduating their athletes.

N Texas
UTEP
U of H
T A M
Baylor
Rice

PS..LSU also trails the above schools, only slightly ahead of TU's graduation rates

College Football News (http://www.collegefootballnews.com/2004/Preview/ProgramRankings_GraduationRates.htm)

TU fans will tell you that this practice is changing under Brown.

We'll see.

:coffee:

cuppacoffee
07-28-2006, 01:56 PM
I really don't think that's why true football fans hate UT maybe you but not most.

Do you have an opinion on why?

Is it all just about wins and losses?

If people do not care about the athletes, then things will never change.

I have a dislike for any school that abuses its athletes, TU is just one of them.


:coffee:

cuppacoffee
07-28-2006, 03:01 PM
Who is you're preferred school?
I'm not trying to start an argument but just wondering.

We're cool..:cool:

Never though we were arguing. I just present what facts I can find and let them speak for themselves.

Check my avatar and you will see that I am a fan of the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame.

College football fans either love or hate the Irish, no in-between.

The hate usually comes about because of inter-action between fans.
All teams have their share of arrogant fans, when they meet they tend to not like each other...:slap:

No one can argue that our players are not student athletes first, if they do they are just deluding themselves.:hides:

Unless they are playing my Irish I will also pull for Penn State.

Don't misunderstand.

I can enjoy a game between power house teams, but they are what they are.

Football factories that use up their players with no regard for their life after football. Thats just wrong.


:coffee:

Coach C.
07-28-2006, 03:28 PM
I hate UT. Just part of that maroon pride TAMU 4Life...

Kaiser Toro
07-28-2006, 03:36 PM
Schools who are legally allowed to cheat such as Notre Dame, with a television contract, and illegally cheat like ND during Holtz's tenure like to point at graduation rates.

Whether you "cheat" by gaining an advantage through exposure, kickbacks or accepting questionable students it is all done to cut corners to get players. Some do it with professionalsim and some do it via their own standards. Just pick the poison and enjoy the game.

cuppacoffee
07-28-2006, 04:07 PM
I'm a "true" football fan and don't 'hate' UT. Also, I have zero ties with the school fwiw. I don't get the hate thing some of you guys carry...but that's just me.

Vinnie

Are you quoting my post?

"TU has a long history of 'using' their student athletes.
True fans of College Football detest this abysmal practice."

Quite a leap from detesting an abysmal practice to hating TU.

I did express a dislike for TU in a later post. Just wanted to clarify, never expressed a hate for anyone.



:coffee:

cuppacoffee
07-28-2006, 04:25 PM
Schools who are legally allowed to cheat such as Notre Dame, with a television contract, and illegally cheat like ND during Holtz's tenure like to point at graduation rates.

Whether you "cheat" by gaining an advantage through exposure, kickbacks or accepting questionable students it is all done to cut corners to get players. Some do it with professionalsim and some do it via their own standards. Just pick the poison and enjoy the game.

Must not be an Irish fan?.:cool:

Legally allowed to cheat with a television contract? :rofl:

That sounds like a jeopardy question.."Whats an oxymoron"?

Cheating during Holtz's tenure? Got links to explain this?

Who's getting kickbacks?

Who's accepting questionable students?

Some do it with professionalism? You got some "splainin' to do.



:coffee:

Kaiser Toro
07-28-2006, 06:58 PM
Must not be an Irish fan?.:cool:

Legally allowed to cheat with a television contract? :rofl:

That sounds like a jeopardy question.."Whats an oxymoron"?

Cheating during Holtz's tenure? Got links to explain this?

Who's getting kickbacks?

Who's accepting questionable students?

Some do it with professionalism? You got some "splainin' to do.



:coffee:

Do I need links or will the stench Holtz left behind at Minnesota, Arkansas, Notre Dame and South Carolia suffice? Probably not so go ahead and look up ND embezzler Kim Dunbar and her doings with the football team.

Having a television contract provides a distinct advantage in recruiting. The fcat ND does not win more often since the contract began is laughable due to it's history and exposure. Without it ND would be toast.

CloakNNNdagger
07-28-2006, 07:17 PM
Young's contract effect on Bush's negotiations swings from one end to the other, depending on one's perspective. One way of looking at things is presented.......some would not agree:


Bush's chances of receiving in excess of $26 million in guaranteed money from the Saints were greatly enhanced by the signing of quarterback Vince Young with Tennessee on Thursday. Young, the No. 3 pick, received a six-year contract which includes $25.74 million in guaranteed money and a maximum value of $58 million.

No. 1 overall choice Mario Williams of Houston received a six-year deal including $26.5 million in guarantees and a maximum value of $62 million.

As for Bush, the Saints have $2.7 million in remaining rookie pool money after signing all their other draft picks, a task the team completed on Thursday. Based on that pool number, a league source said Friday that the maximum amount of guaranteed money Bush can receive in a six-year deal is $26.3 million, just a shade under Williams.

The Saints are essentially locked into guaranteeing more because of the slotting that normally goes with the signing of draft picks from the top down. The team had hoped to pay much less in guaranteed money, but that possibility disappeared with the Young deal.

The Saints had also hoped to get Bush to sign a five-year deal, but that also appears unlikely.

From at least one perspective, the Young deal is staggering. It represents an increase of nearly 30 percent over the $19.8 million guaranteed to wide receiver Braylon Edwards, the No. 3 overall pick by Cleveland a year ago. It's also approximately 25 percent more than what No. 2 overall pick Ronnie Brown got from Miami last year.

The next part of the Bush negotiations will be the remaining incentives and bonuses the Heisman Trophy winner can earn in the deal and how he gets them. For instance, bonuses are often tied to playing time. One source said that the Saints had hoped to tie a higher-than-usual percentage of playing time to the Bush deal and that agent Joel Segal was unwilling to accept that.


link (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=jc-bush072806&prov=yhoo&type=lgns)

Kaiser Toro
07-28-2006, 07:21 PM
Appreciate the post CnD.

It appears that the lame brain decision to sign on with Major Adams was not that bad of a decision.

cuppacoffee
07-28-2006, 10:06 PM
Do I need links or will the stench Holtz left behind at Minnesota, Arkansas, Notre Dame and South Carolia suffice? Probably not so go ahead and look up ND embezzler Kim Dunbar and her doings with the football team.

Having a television contract provides a distinct advantage in recruiting. The fcat ND does not win more often since the contract began is laughable due to it's history and exposure. Without it ND would be toast.

Really?

How is Kim Dunbar a ND embezzler? A little loose with the facts aren't you.

If I embezzled from my employer would that make me a Houston Texan embezzler because I am a fan of the team? Cheeze

She was not employed by ND. She embezzeled from her employer but did in fact buy gifts for ND players.

Dunbars only connection to ND was paying $25 to join the QB club.

"According to the NCAA, Dunbar became a Notre Dame booster on June 22, 1995, when she paid $25 to join the now-disbanded Quarterback Club. Two NCAA groups, however, could not decide whether Dunbar was, in fact, a representative of the University's athletic interests.

It took an overseer's vote in a tiebreaker to determine she was a booster, leaving many to wonder how athletes should have understood Dunbar's representation of Notre Dame and the NCAA."
Kim Dunbar Article (http://www.nd.edu/~observer/01192000/News/0.html)

Agree...this is not an excuse for players to accept gifts.

The Irish were placed on probation for two years, losing a scholly each year.

A definite black eye for the Irish program.

The fact the Irish had not been winning lately is another story. Charlie Weis will remedy that problem.

But you know what? We still graduated our athletes.

Many of the teams who belong to conferences resent the independent Irish having their own network contract. No one is forced to join a conference, this is done for financial reasons also. Does the phrase "bowl tie in" ring a bell?

I never claimed that Notre Dame was perfect, only that the Irish actually recognize the 'student' in student athlete.

Your attempt to deflect the issue of this post (graduating your student athletes) is the only thing "laughable" that I see here.

Yes we do point proudly to our graduation rate, all universities should do the same but sadly they cannot.

I take it by your post that this is really irrelevent to you...whatever.

Not real sure how a VY thread morphed into this.:confused:


:coffee:

Kaiser Toro
07-28-2006, 10:32 PM
Not real sure how a VY thread morphed into this.:confused:


:coffee:

Because you brought up graduation rates.

I will take Irony for $600 Alex.

chuckm
07-28-2006, 10:48 PM
Because you brought up graduation rates.

I will take Irony for $600 Alex.


Alex speaking, "KT, the most talked about player on the Texans MB in the last 4 months will suit up for their most bitter rival ... what is his name?"

Kaiser Toro
07-29-2006, 12:22 AM
Alex speaking, "KT, the most talked about player on the Texans MB in the last 4 months will suit up for their most bitter rival ... what is his name?"

Who is David Carr?

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 09:50 AM
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/football/stories/MYSA072606.1C.FBCforward.pass.338f2a2.html

UT is to Texas, as Texas is to football; both define the game. From Winston to Royal to Young is what it's been about.

UT, SMU, TCU, UH, Baylor, Texas Tech, and Rice ( in that order ).

"Wait a minute! What is Baylor doing there?", you may retort.

There had been some turmoil about college football in l906. President Teddy Roosevelt had decided it was a brutal game. There had been many deaths in one year.
___They used an offensive system called the "flying wedge," which basically was just line up and run over people with virtually no equipment. It was an offshoot of rugby and soccer. They were maiming and killing people. Roosevelt called together coaches of the day and said they were to either change it or he would eliminate it. That handful of coaches rewrote the game of football and set it on the road that it eventually took. They instituted the forward pass. - Grant Teaff, Baylor

"The founders of that certainly did a great favor for football," he says. "It'd be hard to accomplish much (without passing). Everybody would be in a goal-line defense all the time. You'd see an awful lot of punting." - Royal and UT agrees

On Nov. 9, 1906, UT's Winston McMahon threw the state's first recorded TD pass a 17-yarder to Bowie Duncan in a 28-0 victory over Haskell. That came 10 days after Arkansas had tried to throw a pass against Texas only to have a Longhorns player intercept it and return it 100 yards for a game-clinching TD.

It's the Longhorns that are making it work since 1906. That's almost 100 years ago to date. Certainly a few years ahead of the Saint's Show.

http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060728/NDSports15/607280458/-1/SPORTS/CAT=NDSports15

Baugh, now 92, was the first in a long line of Texas-bred, Texas-based quarterbacks who helped football get off the ground and into the air, laying the groundwork for the sport's modern era.

Baugh's Horned Frogs and the SMU ( and later Baugh with the Redskins ) saved football from soccer and rugby. We could all be cheering for large flocks of men dressed in shorts, tied up in one big group hug. Or we could be watching a bunch of European's prance around in an open field, playing footsy with a ball on Sundays. But we don't. Thank you Winston. Thank you Sammy. Thank You Ray Morrison.

Detract you say, "You still have UH and Rice in a list. Obviously you do not know what you are talking about."

Desubfutercate I reply. Rice is home to one Jess Claiborne Neely. While U of H was the stage of Bill Yeomon's Veer Option. ( parts of the run'n'shoot also )

http://www.ricehistoricalsociety.org/cornerstone/issues/JessNeely.pdf

So what do we got here:
UT - passes, runs, options from the Wishbone.
TCU spread and SMU - throwing and using the shotgun from a spread formation a little sooner then Red Hickey and the 49ers.
UH and Rice - the option, and all out passing attacks
Baylor - Grant Teaff and the "Miracle on the Brazos"; where you win when everyone else thinks you are going to lose.


and then Vincent Young.

Vincent Young and 100 years of football in Texas, all packed into 4 evenly divided quarters.

Running, throwing, spread option shotgun, and winning.

( For the 2-points after, both Winston McMahon and Young pitched their TD passes with a sidearm delivery. )

That's the pinnacle of modern conversation about football in Texas. Always starts with UT and ends somewhere with Vince Young. Conversation about football without UT and Vince Young ends with how elongated nappes are fashionable accouterments.

Kaiser Toro
07-29-2006, 11:09 AM
Desubfutercate I reply.

Hold on professor, I am going to need a judge's ruling on the definition of desubfutercate.

Otherwise great post. :)

cuppacoffee
07-29-2006, 11:13 AM
Because you brought up graduation rates.

I will take Irony for $600 Alex.

Hmmmmm

Irony?

College football and graduation rates? What was I thinking? This is Texas after all.

Q. What is a 6?


Can't justify in my own mind debating further with anyone who apparently doesn't care about the athletes education, only W's and L's.

Kaiser Toro
07-29-2006, 11:28 AM
Hmmmmm

Irony?

College football and graduation rates? What was I thinking? This is Texas after all.

Q. What is a 6?


Can't justify in my own mind debating further with anyone who apparently doesn't care about the athletes education, only W's and L's.

Let's finish this dance once the college football season begins. ;)

We got Texans TC to talk about and I have some wake boarding and golfing to do this weekend.

cuppacoffee
07-29-2006, 11:30 AM
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/football/stories/MYSA072606.1C.FBCforward.pass.338f2a2.html

UT is to Texas, as Texas is to football; both define the game. From Winston to Royal to Young is what it's been about.

UT, SMU, TCU, UH, Baylor, Texas Tech, and Rice ( in that order ).

"Wait a minute! What is Baylor doing there?", you may retort.

- Grant Teaff, Baylor

- Royal and UT agrees



It's the Longhorns that are making it work since 1906. That's almost 100 years ago to date. Certainly a few years ahead of the Saint's Show.

http://www.southbendtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060728/NDSports15/607280458/-1/SPORTS/CAT=NDSports15



Baugh's Horned Frogs and the SMU ( and later Baugh with the Redskins ) saved football from soccer and rugby. We could all be cheering for large flocks of men dressed in shorts, tied up in one big group hug. Or we could be watching a bunch of European's prance around in an open field, playing footsy with a ball on Sundays. But we don't. Thank you Winston. Thank you Sammy. Thank You Ray Morrison.

Detract you say, "You still have UH and Rice in a list. Obviously you do not know what you are talking about."

Desubfutercate I reply. Rice is home to one Jess Claiborne Neely. While U of H was the stage of Bill Yeomon's Veer Option. ( parts of the run'n'shoot also )

http://www.ricehistoricalsociety.org/cornerstone/issues/JessNeely.pdf

So what do we got here:
UT - passes, runs, options from the Wishbone.
TCU spread and SMU - throwing and using the shotgun from a spread formation a little sooner then Red Hickey and the 49ers.
UH and Rice - the option, and all out passing attacks
Baylor - Grant Teaff and the "Miracle on the Brazos"; where you win when everyone else thinks you are going to lose.


and then Vincent Young.

Vincent Young and 100 years of football in Texas, all packed into 4 evenly divided quarters.

Running, throwing, spread option shotgun, and winning.

( For the 2-points after, both Winston McMahon and Young pitched their TD passes with a sidearm delivery. )

That's the pinnacle of modern conversation about football in Texas. Always starts with UT and ends somewhere with Vince Young. Conversation about football without UT and Vince Young ends with how elongated nappes are fashionable accouterments.



If you want to use big words while posting you really should pay closer attention to the spelling...:D

Webster (http://aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/home-aol.htm)

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 11:31 AM
Hold on professor, I am going to need a judge's ruling on the definition of desubfutercate.

Otherwise great post. :)

Custom wordsmith, even looked up myself before I used it. I invoke Twain law that states mangling is allowed after the rules have been studied.

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 11:43 AM
If you want to use big words while posting you really should pay closer attention to the spelling...:D

Webster (http://aolsvc.merriam-webster.aol.com/home-aol.htm)

No Idaho. You should read more about Knute Rockne before you go around talking about what a clean program the Irish run.

Then you need to figure out what a nappe is.

After you figure what two sizes you need... then you can figure what two words match.

EDIT:
not that typos don't accure, becuase they do... but in the stated case, there is not.

Kaiser Toro
07-29-2006, 11:44 AM
Custom wordsmith, even looked up myself before I used it. I invoke Twain law that states mangling is allowed after the rules have been studied.

You're excused. Just do not skip on or splice our Texan linguistic contractions, especially y'all. :)

cuppacoffee
07-29-2006, 01:44 PM
No Idaho. You should read more about Knute Rockne before you go around talking about what a clean program the Irish run.

Then you need to figure out what a nappe is.

After you figure what two sizes you need... then you can figure what two words match.

EDIT:
not that typos don't accure, becuase they do... but in the stated case, there is not.

ever hear of spell check?

It helps me when I look up the words to see what they mean. :D

accouterments?

Please refer to my previous posts and show me where I ever discussed "clean programs". Thats another topic.

Unless you equate 'clean' to graduating your players?

Clean..to me... means not having Marcus Vick type players on your team.
But thats just my opinion.

And I am certain that Ricky never smoked a joint until after leaving TU.

:coffee:

TexansLucky13
07-29-2006, 02:02 PM
not that typos don't accure, becuase they do... but in the stated case, there is not.

I hope that that was sarcasm.

GuerillaBlack
07-29-2006, 03:28 PM
We made a good decision by not drafting Reggie. He seems to have an attitude problem, and wants to much money.

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 03:32 PM
ever hear of spell check?

It helps me when I look up the words to see what they mean. :D

accouterments?

Please refer to my previous posts and show me where I ever discussed "clean programs". Thats another topic.

Unless you equate 'clean' to graduating your players?

Clean..to me... means not having Marcus Vick type players on your team.
But thats just my opinion.

And I am certain that Ricky never smoked a joint until after leaving TU.

:coffee:

Ah how nice. You know what a spell checker is. Idaho finally got computers AND a software upgrade.

I would like to indulge you knickerbocker wearing pudwinkle Catholic boys a little more on the use of language, but I don't see much of the point in doing so. Because as it is, the English still owns you.

( Go ahead, put your thinking cap on. It might help you figure it out )

And while you were using that spell checker did you run across Noter Dame and desubfutercate? Maybe then it'll make some sense to you? 'But' then again, you are still most likely 'not' going to be able to understand it. Which is understandable, because the point of the conversation will always be above your head ( read it again and see if you catch on ). If you do, I personally garuntee, that you are the first graduate that learned something without getting a gimme degree to help out your graduation rates.

Yeah... figure it out yet?

Go ahead and show me something that the Irish can do outside of the Box. I haven't seen it yet. I saw USC and Michigan fall on Vince Young's watch. Which is what we are talking about here... which is what I detailed out for you representing schools that deliver degrees worth something. You know that foreign concept of earning what you get? Not having things handed it to you.

I could of course detail out a list of accomplishments from the Saint's school too... but we are talking about football and Vince Young here. Not gambling, fornicating, church, booster pay, and so forth. It is a school for Catholics' after all. Pious on Sunday, working up reasons to be so the rest of the week.

TwinSisters
07-29-2006, 03:37 PM
I hope that that was sarcasm.

Yep. You most certainly will graduate Magna Cum Laude... or whatever it is that they give out. The Dan Quayle Merit badge or something like that.

Wolf
07-29-2006, 04:08 PM
TU has a long history of 'using' their student athletes.
True fans of College Football detest this abysmal practice.

Poor graduation rates, ill prepared for life after football.

From PFW
" Why this is important: After all, these are supposed to be student-athletes out there playing. This is a good indicator for how much emphasis a program places on academics rather than simply using the football players for their on-the-field talents."

According to CollegeFootballNews...... TU is ranked below the following Texas schools in graduating their athletes.

N Texas
UTEP
U of H
T A M
Baylor
Rice

PS..LSU also trails the above schools, only slightly ahead of TU's graduation rates

College Football News (http://www.collegefootballnews.com/2004/Preview/ProgramRankings_GraduationRates.htm)

TU fans will tell you that this practice is changing under Brown.

We'll see.

:coffee:


I wonder about the graduation rates.. is it they dropped out of UT and never went back or did they go to one of the other colleges in Austin(isn't there like 5?ACC,houston-tilson(or something like that) and the others escape me)