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View Full Version : Who will make the bigger impact, Demeco Ryans or Mario?


TexanSam
07-26-2006, 01:05 AM
A lot of people here are high on Demeco Ryans, as am I. I also love the Mario Williams pick. We have the potential to have two very, very good players on the defensive side. Maybe even become stars in the league. So who do you think will make the bigger impact this season? Mario or Demeco?

I think Mario, simply because he has more potential. The guy is a beast. Of course, if Mario keeps getting in the opponents backfield, they may have two blockers on him which could allow Demeco Ryans to get back there. :yahoo:

Scooter
07-26-2006, 01:53 AM
the bigger impact will be mario. HOWEVER, the stats will favor ryans. i expect a solid season, but i'm not banking on miracles ... our lb's are going to be on the field plenty and ryans will have his fair share of tackles & other opportunities. what's going to happen is, the first sack for mario is going to be validation (provided it comes early in the season). defenses are going to slowly shift his direction at that point, freeing up babin across from him and the linebackers behind him. i dont care if mario finishes the season with 12 tackles and 1 sack, as long as he's freeing up the rest of the defense to make plays. babin, weaver, nor peek could have that kind of impact by themselves. what i hope/expect to happen is in the mold of dwight freeney ... his mere presence makes it easier for the rest of the defense. a 245lb backup DE (mathis) ends up with 11.5 sacks, and an average LB (june) makes the probowl. mario isnt freeney (yet), but i hope that his status as a monster has the same effect.

TexansLucky13
07-26-2006, 02:07 AM
Mario will have a bigger impact this year. He is the perfect dimensions for his position plus he has good speed and intellect. He will make a large immediate impact. On the other hand, I believe DeMeco will rise to be the leader of the Texans D in coming years. He seems to be a very powerful and commanding player, of great talent. Both of them will do their job, that's for sure.

TwinSisters
07-26-2006, 02:24 AM
I am going with DeMeco Ryans... if he earns a starting spot.

I just think he has the right balance of being intelligent enough and playing smart, while yet being dumb enough to even play ( Paul Brown ).

Mario I am just going to have to see play before I will feel good about what he can do. Williams, Lawson, and McCargo all went in the first round. It looks like somebody has made a mistake. I sure hope it wasn't us... but man how in the heck can a defense put 3 in the 1st round of the NFL and yet their team finishes 7-5 in the ACC? I am not so sure that would happen on the offensive side of the ball.

It just looks shakey... makes me nervous. Plus the fifty million Russians telling me that my team is commanded by a volkswagen packed with clowns everyday is not helping a whole lot either.

But then again I have seen Alabama play, and do not remember even hearing about Mario Williams while he was at NCS, so I should have a slant.




-------
http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=214&section=TH%20Players

DeMeco man, DeMeco! :D All the other places can butcher it up as much as they want, but here we have to get it right. Unless of course he fails... then you know I don't care.

I am not asking for a lot here or being a spelling Nazi. I cut words up all the time and piece together sentences at my leisure, with absolute and utter disregard for grammatic convention. 'Truly fearless in this regard' is what my last critique has stated.

The thing is... if you support a guy, you can at least spell his name right.

Scooter
07-26-2006, 02:52 AM
Mario I am just going to have to see play before I will feel good about what he can do. Williams, Lawson, and McCargo all went in the first round. It looks like somebody has made a mistake. I sure hope it wasn't us... but man how in the heck can a defense put 3 in the 1st round of the NFL and yet their team finishes 7-5 in the ACC? I am not so sure that would happen on the offensive side of the ball.

kurt warner, anquan boldin, larry fitzgerald ... the best passing attack in football went 5-11. while i know very little about the acc, it's entirely possible to have an overload of talent in one area, but have the rest of the team's problems bring them down.

Insideop
07-26-2006, 03:18 AM
the bigger impact will be mario. HOWEVER, the stats will favor ryans. i expect a solid season, but i'm not banking on miracles ... our lb's are going to be on the field plenty and ryans will have his fair share of tackles & other opportunities. what's going to happen is, the first sack for mario is going to be validation (provided it comes early in the season). defenses are going to slowly shift his direction at that point, freeing up babin across from him and the linebackers behind him. i dont care if mario finishes the season with 12 tackles and 1 sack, as long as he's freeing up the rest of the defense to make plays. babin, weaver, nor peek could have that kind of impact by themselves. what i hope/expect to happen is in the mold of dwight freeney ... his mere presence makes it easier for the rest of the defense. a 245lb backup DE (mathis) ends up with 11.5 sacks, and an average LB (june) makes the probowl. mario isnt freeney (yet), but i hope that his status as a monster has the same effect.

This is what I'm hoping/thinking will happen too! Too many people are saying if Mario doesn't get double digit sacks this year he's a failure! I don't see it that way. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see him get that many sacks, but I don't think he's a failure if he doesn't. If he doesn't get the sacks I'm hoping he will draw attention (double/triple teams) and free up the rest (Peek, Babin, etc...) so maybe 1 or 2 of them will have a MONSTER year in the sack department. If that is what happens, Mario will have been well worth the 1st pick in the draft and he will have the bigger impact this year IMHO!:twocents:

TwinSisters
07-26-2006, 03:39 AM
kurt warner, anquan boldin, larry fitzgerald ... the best passing attack in football went 5-11. while i know very little about the acc, it's entirely possible to have an overload of talent in one area, but have the rest of the team's problems bring them down.

For sure. It's not the record that bothers me as much as the overall play of the team. They didn't just lose to power teams. BUT I did not remember seeing them play much and Lawson was the only guy I saw highlights on from previous years

The ACC is alright ( It's a Big 12 statement and the ACC houses the "U" ). On a serious note though, it's just that you rarely see a team place 3 starters in the 1st round on the same side of the ball and not be ranked.
( I am not 100% sure about this either... but I am going to look this weekend to see if there ever was )

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankingsindex
You can play with the different rankings and polls here

NCS did have their defense ranked in the top ten though... I believe.

I wager one of those three is not going to be worth a first round pick in a few years. I like Lawson... so I got my fingers crossed that the Bills are still making horrible personnel calls ( J.P. Loseman, Mike Williams )

EDIT:
I should add this in also. There is a difference between having a bad record and good players in the NFL then in college. There is huge differential in the level of talent on college teams that is not really there on the Pro side of the game. Doesn't mean a whole lot either... it's just a minor factor when I have to predict if DeMeco is going to have a better year then Mario.

wicked_wayz
07-26-2006, 05:06 AM
For sure. It's not the record that bothers me as much as the overall play of the team. They didn't just lose to power teams. BUT I did not remember seeing them play much and Lawson was the only guy I saw highlights on from previous years

The ACC is alright ( It's a Big 12 statement and the ACC houses the "U" ). On a serious note though, it's just that you rarely see a team place 3 starters in the 1st round on the same side of the ball and not be ranked.
( I am not 100% sure about this either... but I am going to look this weekend to see if there ever was )

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/rankingsindex
You can play with the different rankings and polls here

NCS did have their defense ranked in the top ten though... I believe.

I wager one of those three is not going to be worth a first round pick in a few years. I like Lawson... so I got my fingers crossed that the Bills are still making horrible personel calls ( J.P. Loseman, Mike Williams )

EDIT:
I should add this in also. There is a difference between having a bad record and good players in the NFL then in college. There is huge differential in the level of talent on college teams that is not really there on the Pro side of the game. Doesn't mean a whole lot either... it's just a minor factor when I have to predict if DeMeco is going to have a better year then Mario.


it should of been just two that went into the first round, scouters believed that the bills reached for mccargo

Scooter
07-26-2006, 05:07 AM
i agree with everything that you're saying, i was just throwing that out because it needed to be said that anything's possible. having 3 defensive linemen from one school going in the first round is an anomoly, especially from a less than stellar team. however, lawson is being drafted as a legitimately athletic "tweener" for the 49'ers at 22 and mccargo was lucky to go first day, let alone in round one (pure speculation at this point, but buffalo's had one of the poorest drafts i've seen in a long time). mccargo's going to be the "oops" that you're talking about, and lawson's more than likely going to need atleast a year to adjust - especially with the 49'ers pathetic defense. there wont be 3 NC State standouts as rookies.

TwinSisters
07-26-2006, 05:44 AM
Scooter - right on brother
Wicked_wayz-

The thing that bothers me is that Marv Levy was there for this draft. If Marv wasn't the GM, then I would be like OK. Marv is not a proven dummy.

However for us, we still had Casserly. And I don't trust Kubiak any further then I would nanobots that could build a space station ( as in both could, but have yet to prove that they can ). Casserly of course has proven to be extremely erratic and dangerously close to being diagnosed as a lunatic ( or in the very least the embodiment of 4 or 5 other disorders from the official list kept here http://www.nimh.nih.gov/ ).

So I have difficulty understanding how Marv screwed up? This is what I believe; he did screw up. But I have to fight to stay focused on this belief.

( Marv is from the Bear Bryant school of learning and also the guy that built the 90's Buffalo Bills that ruled the AFC for ... don't even remember how many years.. a long time, 5-6 years at least )

EDIT:
http://www.realfootball365.com/nfl/articles/2006/07/donte-whitner-bills250706.html

See the Bills didn't just take McCargo... man they traded up to get him!

Whitner wasn't the only Buffalo Bills first-round pick, however. The team traded up and used the 26th overall selection on defensive tackle John McCargo, a former NC State star who is expected to make an impact in the Bills' new "Tampa 2" defense.

http://www.buffalobills.com/news/news.jsp?news_id=3834

If you don't know Levy all that well... that story is worth a click. That's the guy that pulled the trigger on McCargo. Of course I do have to say that perhaps I am the one at fault... because Lawson could end up not being what I thought he is? This could be... because if the Texans are commanded by a Volkswagen packed with clowns, then the 49ers have to be commanded by a Daewoo and Ali Baba's 48 chimps.

Nolan was with a rookie GM and is from the Casserly school. ( and prior to that Dan Reeves! )

From 1997-99 Nolan was the defensive coordinator in Washington. In 1997, the Redskins allowed the eighth-fewest points in NFL and finished third overall in pass defense. Though his three-year spell with the Redskins had plenty of highs and lows, Nolan credits his experiences there as the catalyst he used to build his present foundation.

“I didn’t learn as much football at Washington, but I learned more than I could have any place else as far as personnel, structure and chemistry,” he remembered. “That was one of my best experiences of my coaching career, looking back on it.”

So pretty much Casserly and Reeves have fingerprints on Lawson and Williams ...and Levy on McCargo.
also Casserly was trained under Bobby Beathard ( another erratic builder ). Maybe there is a little Walsh cross-talk from Levy too.

Ahhh yet another puzzle to unravel on Sundays...

While you might say this guy is not that guy... in football more then any other place, I have found that copycat is the dominant Modus Operandi. Not the only way things get done, but certainly there.

Scooter
07-26-2006, 07:44 AM
.........

nunusguy
07-26-2006, 09:13 AM
Outside of the highlight reels, I've not seen either one of them play, but suspect that DeMeco was better known nationally before Mario knocked out his spectacular numbers at the Indy Combine ?
I think there's a reasonable chance that DeMeco could be the best LB taken in this Draft. But I also think there's a reasonable chance that Mario won't be the best DE taken in this Draft. To take it to the other side of the ball, I think there's a very good chance that one of the 2 other backs selected in the first round besides Bush, Laurence Maroney and DeAngelo Williams, will
be better than Bush in the NFL.

TwinSisters
07-26-2006, 09:20 AM
O man!! You missed the Cotton Bowl?

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-26-2006, 09:29 AM
Demeco will because Ends like Mario get figured out and in the long run Demeco will be better player. Demeco played better and more consistantly in college than Mario and i see it playing out that way in the NFL as well.

powerfuldragon
07-26-2006, 09:29 AM
I say Mario, because at this point we don't know for sure if DeMeco is starting.

Runner
07-26-2006, 09:33 AM
I say Mario, because at this point we don't know for sure if DeMeco is starting.

I guess if you predict DeMeco you are also predicting he starts. A twofer!

HOU-TEX
07-26-2006, 10:04 AM
Demeco will because Ends like Mario get figured out and in the long run Demeco will be better player. Demeco played better and more consistantly in college than Mario and i see it playing out that way in the NFL as well.

I agree with you on Demeco being a good player for the long run. What do you mean Mario will get "figured out"? It took Kearse a long time to get figured out (as you should know), but that's more of an age thing if you ask me. I used to like watching Kearse play and I think Mario will eventually be better than him.:mario:

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-26-2006, 10:14 AM
I agree with you on Demeco being a good player for the long run. What do you mean Mario will get "figured out"? It took Kearse a long time to get figured out (as you should know), but that's more of an age thing if you ask me. I used to like watching Kearse play and I think Mario will eventually be better than him.:mario:

Well what Kearse did in his Rookie season won't ever be done again. That guy was superman for a couple years. If Mario does 2/3 that good he will be amazing.

I guess my point about Mario being "figured" out is that Defensive End has become almost a skill position. It's not just about athleticism and speed anymore. Just look at Kyle Vandenbosch from the Titans. He had 13 sacks last year and they guy is slower than Christmas. If Mario can match his skill and hard work with his athleticism he will be an elite Defensive End, but if he just relies on his size and speed then he's in for a surprise.

I'm not a Mario doubter or anything, the guy is awesome. Defensive end is definitely hit-or-miss though. Offensive tackles have become too good.

HOU-TEX
07-26-2006, 10:21 AM
Well what Kearse did in his Rookie season won't ever be done again. That guy was superman for a couple years. If Mario does 2/3 that good he will be amazing.

I guess my point about Mario being "figured" out is that Defensive End has become almost a skill position. It's not just about athleticism and speed anymore. Just look at Kyle Vandenbosch from the Titans. He had 13 sacks last year and they guy is slower than Christmas. If Mario can match his skill and hard work with his athleticism he will be an elite Defensive End, but if he just relies on his size and speed then he's in for a surprise.

I'm not a Mario doubter or anything, the guy is awesome. Defensive end is definitely hit-or-miss though. Offensive tackles have become too good.

Good points. I think this dudes a mammoth with speed. As long as he's coached correctly he'll be something special. Yes, better than the "freak".:redtowel:

El Tejano
07-26-2006, 10:21 AM
That was the big thing he stated he wanted to work on. He said that everything he did before was based on pure athleticism and his early signing was partly because of the fact he wanted to be in camp to learn the skill part of his position.

edo783
07-26-2006, 10:34 AM
If Ryan gets a starting spot, then short term he will have the larger and more immediate effect, because teams will know about Mario and double him up from the git go and Ryans will have more of a free range. By years 2-3, then I see Mario becoming the bigger factor as he learns how to beat the NFL line play.

srstex
07-26-2006, 10:49 AM
The DE position stats depend a lot on the surrounding players, if no-one is worth a double team except the DE then he is in trouble from the start. So Mario needs Weaver/Smith/Payne to cause the co-ordinators to look inside first, giving Mario a step or two.
The best LB taken this year was BY Far, AJ Hawk, but the Green Bay front 4 will not allow him be a big stat man this year.

Battle Red Flash
07-26-2006, 12:01 PM
It's a tie!
Both make All-Rookie 1st team.

Just a guess. :thumbup

TexanBacker93
07-26-2006, 12:33 PM
I think if you end up looking purely at stats you won't give them a fair shake.
Williams will see a lot of double teams, but if his getting double teamed means Babin, Peek, Weaver, Smith, Johnson, Payne and the LBs get more tackles and more sacks then I think he is having great impact. If he ends up with 9 sacks, but the team has 50 and our defense is in the top half of the league I think that's a great season. A lot of Bush and Young supporters might look at numbers like that and use it to say the team should have taken one of them because Williams isn't a stud. Linemen rarely get noticed if they aren't making plays. If you allow someone else to make a play you are just as big a part of it as the guy making it.

So...I think Mario has more impact for the team this year; I think he allows the rest of the defense to have great years. He'll still get his, but I think making players around him better will be his biggest contribution.

chuckm
07-26-2006, 12:35 PM
Voted for Mario because IMO DE is an easier College/NFL transition than LB

Brandon420tx
07-26-2006, 01:06 PM
The best way to judge their impact is the overall production (Or lack of from opposing offenses in this case) increases when they are on the field. Since it is the ultimate team game it is harder to decide who has the most impact.

There are very few single player efforts (Otherwise known as making plays) to go by in the NFL and your best players are expected to at least make 2 or 3 a season, the only way you can decide one is a standout is if they have significantly more then that. Then again, if your whole defense is performing well and everyone on your team is doing excellent you begin to see continuous streams of great plays, but you notice that its more of the whole defense then one player (See Baltimore Ravens a few years ago).

I remember there was another time we started at least 2 rookies on our defense (Pretty sure it was 3) and we had a great year defensively.... well a better any of the others.

Texian
07-26-2006, 01:14 PM
I had to go with 6'7", 297, 4.67, 35 reps and 40 1/2 VL. Right now Ryans is not a sure starter.

On another note, those disparaging NC State as a less than stellar team at 7-5. Just a reminder, another #1 pick, John Elway never had a winning season during his stay at Stanford.

TwinSisters
07-26-2006, 03:27 PM
On another note, those disparaging NC State as a less than stellar team at 7-5. Just a reminder, another #1 pick, John Elway never had a winning season during his stay at Stanford.

Yeah but he was the only one taken in the first round. We had three USC offensive guys taken this year right? I think so.. no 2, then 3 in the second round.

Florida St had 4 go in the first round on the defense...

eh I don't know.

Ryan
07-26-2006, 06:40 PM
Mario

Vinny
07-26-2006, 08:36 PM
I had to go with 6'7", 297, 4.67, 35 reps and 40 1/2 VL. Right now Ryans is not a sure starter. If he doesn't start with our rag tag group of linebackers...that was the worst pick of the draft since the fist pick of the second round should have the skill level of a starter.

YoungTexanFan
07-27-2006, 01:41 AM
Yeah but he was the only one taken in the first round. We had three USC offensive guys taken this year right? I think so.. no 2, then 3 in the second round.

Florida St had 4 go in the first round on the defense...

eh I don't know.

Signed,
John McCargo

TK_Gamer
07-27-2006, 02:12 AM
have you guys seen ryans tackle? OMG , Im talkin bruce smith, quote me in febuary, demeco ryans 100+ tackles, 7 sacks, 4 ff, and 3 int. heres your top runner for droy.

edit : dont get me wrong, mario is a beast but i think he will have his hands full until he adjusts to the speed of nfl and learns how to deal with the strong side doubles.

The Pencil Neck
07-27-2006, 02:52 AM
I chose Ryans just because he's so smart and instinctive. I think he'll integrate into the defense a lot quicker because he's starting out as a more polished player. I think Mario's going to be a beast but I think he's got to work on technique.

Although I expect Mario to be a great player and have a great season, I expect DeMeco to emerge as a real leader of the D.

touttail
07-27-2006, 07:01 AM
I voted Mario.
for the fact that I feel LB is a tougher position to learn and excel at.

Bobby 119C :twocents:

Runner
07-27-2006, 08:39 AM
I'm going with Williams.

Here is a news flash - Mario Williams is really fast. In the voluntary conditioning drills in the past week, they ran a drill where everyone runs at once. Generally, the O- and D-lineman are in the front row, the next row contains LBs, RBS, and TEs, and the last row contains the WRs and DBs. The rows are spaced about 10 yards apart and the lineman run 30 yards. Everyone tries to be the first across that finish line. The linemen who usually are at the front of their group could keep up with Mario for a few yards, but then he'd just pull away.