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edo783
07-25-2006, 09:37 PM
31. Houston Texans


Abandon all hope, ye who enter here ... especially if thou art a quarterback. Especially if thou art David Carr, a young man who could teach a certain Mr. Manning a thing or three about not throwing his linemen under a bus. Football Outsiders, as part of our game-charting project, tracks blown blocks that lead directly to sacks. Houston far exceeded any other team, racking up 40 blown blocks ("whiffs", you might call them St. Louis was second with 29). The truly frightening number: 8.1 percent of Houston's pass plays resulted in a blown block sack. New head coach Gary Kubiak will bring his knowledge of Denver's zone blocking system to Houston, but who are the guys who are supposed to implement it? Right tackle Zach Weigert, left tackle Seth Wand, guards Chester Pitts and Steve McKinney, and center Mike Flanagan will be directed to drop weight and get quicker in the new schemes that require them to get out of the blocks quickly and get to the second level. Overseeing this progression will be former Green Bay head coach Mike Sherman, Kubiak's right-hand man on the offensive side. One bit of encouraging news is that Houston improved to eighth in Adjusted Line Yards in 2005, but that won't make up for another season of historically woeful pass-blocking.

TexanFan881
07-25-2006, 09:40 PM
This is definately the pesimistic ranking :crazy:

Past does not equal present. The media needs to get that in their heads.

infantrycak
07-25-2006, 10:38 PM
Quick edo hide this--don't you know all 208 times Carr was sacked it was his fault? Regardless of whose fault it was, he never actually got hit hard--seriously, those 208 sacks were so wussy as he ran screaming down the field, looking for the one yard shy marker, trying to brush his California hair from his eyes--they don't amount to what? 3-4 real sacks. If only the Texans had a real tough QB like Ironman McNair who can take a hit and stay out of practice each week for years running.

Anguyen
07-25-2006, 10:49 PM
This is definately the pesimistic ranking :crazy:

Past does not equal present. The media needs to get that in their heads.
+1
past performance is not guaranty future result.

SF49erFaithful
07-25-2006, 10:50 PM
who did they rank 32?

texan279
07-25-2006, 10:53 PM
31. Houston Texans


Abandon all hope, ye who enter here ... especially if thou art a quarterback. Especially if thou art David Carr, a young man who could teach a certain Mr. Manning a thing or three about not throwing his linemen under a bus. Football Outsiders, as part of our game-charting project, tracks blown blocks that lead directly to sacks. Houston far exceeded any other team, racking up 40 blown blocks ("whiffs", you might call them St. Louis was second with 29). The truly frightening number: 8.1 percent of Houston's pass plays resulted in a blown block sack. New head coach Gary Kubiak will bring his knowledge of Denver's zone blocking system to Houston, but who are the guys who are supposed to implement it? Right tackle Zach Weigert, left tackle Seth Wand, guards Chester Pitts and Steve McKinney, and center Mike Flanagan will be directed to drop weight and get quicker in the new schemes that require them to get out of the blocks quickly and get to the second level. Overseeing this progression will be former Green Bay head coach Mike Sherman, Kubiak's right-hand man on the offensive side. One bit of encouraging news is that Houston improved to eighth in Adjusted Line Yards in 2005, but that won't make up for another season of historically woeful pass-blocking.

I guess I agree with this ranking if they are going off of last year's performance and not making prediction's for the upcoming season.

TexansSeminole
07-25-2006, 10:59 PM
This just means he has no idea, and is placing us down there simply on last years performaces. Nobody is going to buy into our system until they see it. We should expect rankings like this up until Pre-season.

LORK 88
07-25-2006, 11:31 PM
This is definately the pesimistic ranking :crazy:

Past does not equal present. The media needs to get that in their heads.
Very true, but since when does the media ever have enough guts to try and predict the next season rather than recap the previous one?

TwinSisters
07-26-2006, 12:31 AM
Quick edo hide this--don't you know all 208 times Carr was sacked it was his fault? Regardless of whose fault it was, he never actually got hit hard--seriously, those 208 sacks were so wussy as he ran screaming down the field, looking for the one yard shy marker, trying to brush his California hair from his eyes--they don't amount to what? 3-4 real sacks. If only the Texans had a real tough QB like Ironman McNair who can take a hit and stay out of practice each week for years running.

I agree.

Nothing like having a guy that can take a licking, and not throw the ball, to get up again, to not throw the ball again, until his team has to struggle to put together 2 wins in a row to even make a highlight reel. While that country boy couldn't even make it one extra measly yard to beat the greatest show on turf in a Super Bowl or be forced to share a league MVP award with that other loser that throws the ball before he gets hit for the 579th time. Yeah that one. That one that has thrown for more yards in his rookie season then others have in their entire 4 years of proving to everyone that they are tough enough to take 208 sacks.

Don't worry though. In four years he was sacked enough times to be at exactly half of the all-time career leader of sacks John Elway at 516. A John Elway that manages to win a lot a games while being sacked.

and this is report comes from Football Outsiders.

You know that 'Fantasy' place. They don't use real numbers there either according to the Houston Texans' blogs. Because they have Carr rated as one of the worst cost-to-performance QBs in the league also.

But you might not want to bring that up, because stats don't matter. Only praying matters with Carr. Now we must all pray.

--

The Cardinals are ranked 32nd.

Where Kurt Warner was able to throw for more yards then Carr with only 10 games played. And yes he was able to throw for 5 300+ yard games with just ten games which is 2 more then Carr has thrown for in 4 years.
( yep a lot of math in there )

But we all know Kurt is a bust and a wash. Carr is great. Kurt had one extra WRer to throw to without a running game. Obviously it was the system that makes him perform. EVERY Cowboy that ever got a keyboard knows that you have to use the run to set up the pass. Seeing how the Cardinals were 32nd across the board in the RUN and nearly first in the Pass across the board that must be true.

Lordy knows their defense was so good that it earned them a 5-11 record.
( which their defense really wasn't all that bad to be honest )

TexansLucky13
07-26-2006, 01:14 AM
Another Carr thread! :hides:

All the usual suspects are here, too!

My only prayer is that a mod will stop this before it goes out of control :francis:

TwinSisters
07-26-2006, 03:23 AM
Another Carr thread! :hides:

All the usual suspects are here, too!

My only prayer is that a mod will stop this before it goes out of control

well ya know...

If you have an idea about how to talk about the Houston Texans without talking about the face of the franchise... I will certainly read it ( and comment too! )

I am not too sure how you can talk about the offensive line or really any part of the offense without talking about the QB. Maybe when we are punting? Doubt it though, because then you have to ask, "why are we punting?".

I am naturally going to show up in the line up because I am the only one, of like 3, that will man the other side of the debate.

thunderkyss
07-26-2006, 07:14 AM
Quick edo hide this--don't you know all 208 times Carr was sacked it was his fault? Regardless of whose fault it was, he never actually got hit hard--seriously, those 208 sacks were so wussy as he ran screaming down the field, looking for the one yard shy marker, trying to brush his California hair from his eyes--they don't amount to what? 3-4 real sacks. If only the Texans had a real tough QB like Ironman McNair who can take a hit and stay out of practice each week for years running.


So how long you plan on staying in Egypt??

JohnGalt
07-26-2006, 07:35 AM
31st???? I don't buy it. I put us in the 20-25 range at least in the beginning of the season.

They put in StL at 29th... whatever. They have Pace and Barron at the tackles. I saw the StL - Indy Monday Night game year. Freeney was Orlando's b**ch. I am surprised he didn't bend Freeney over his knee and paddle him. Orlando alone is worth being in the top 20.

If the Fox ranking is creditable, then I find it promising to know that we got part of the Number 1 team's caoching staff.

Texans Horror
07-26-2006, 07:47 AM
Fox could make a stronger argument for their ranking by stating that only one new player is on the line - Flanagan, and that all the other linemen started in 2004/2005.

Still, I think it says a lot more about the past coaching regime that Kubiak has basically kept the same people, but shuffled them around.

I do commend them for not saying the Texans have turned their line around overnight because they are starting Winston and Spenser. This is not the case, but a lot of writers are putting that out there on the web, JMO.

TwinSisters
07-26-2006, 08:18 AM
The ranking is part of a series from Football Outsiders. If you wanted to judge this ranking from their other rankings then you can plough through them here

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/category/fo-on-fox/

It's not the same guy doing all of them though.. so the "subjective analysis" changes between the different rankings.

Runner
07-26-2006, 08:31 AM
I would have thought the line's run blocking alone would have bumped the rating up more than that. Sometimes the focus on pass blocking is a little overboard. I understand 50 sacks a year is way to high, but there are still two facets - passing and running - to the offensive game.

I'm also looking forward to seeing the best players on the field during games. That should move us up a notch or two. :rolleyes:

Texans_Chick
07-26-2006, 09:00 AM
and this is report comes from Football Outsiders.

You know that 'Fantasy' place. They don't use real numbers there either according to the Houston Texans' blogs. Because they have Carr rated as one of the worst cost-to-performance QBs in the league also.

But you might not want to bring that up, because stats don't matter. Only praying matters with Carr. Now we must all pray.




What the heck are you talking about? You talkin' to me? If so, say so. If not, well then, don't paint me with that brush.

Football Outsiders is one of my favorite sites on the web.

There are limitations to what a sabermetric approach can do for football because it is such a team game--QB stats are more dependant on teammates and scheme than an individuals batting average (though that can be affected by who is hitting in front and behind him)--but even so, I've never said there isn't a place in football for stats, but they are just a tool, among many, to look to things in context.

OK, we get it. You hate Carr, you don't think he can play. I'm not sold on that yet, mostly because I tend to trust Kubiak's point of view on this more than random anonymous MB posters and sports talk radio donut eaters until I see something that tells me otherwise.

<sigh> everything is a Carr thread (add a Vinny headslap here) unless it is a Bush thread. <sigh>

real
07-26-2006, 09:05 AM
Most people are saying that Carr hasn't played well BECAUSE of poor offensive line play...if this is true, then either 1) that means Carr is only as good as his line (nothing wrong with that) 2) If Carr has a good year...that means the O-line has had a good year...What I'm getting at: Stop saying that you think Carr is going to have a break out season; and then in the same breath say you are worried about the O-line...It doesn't make sense...

TwinSisters
07-26-2006, 09:14 AM
What the heck are you talking about? You talkin' to me? If so, say so. If not, well then, don't paint me with that brush.

OK, we get it. You hate Carr, you don't think he can play. I'm not sold on that yet, mostly because I tend to trust Kubiak's point of view on this more than random anonymous MB posters and sports talk radio donut eaters until I see something that tells me otherwise.

<sigh> everything is a Carr thread (add a Vinny headslap here) unless it is a Bush thread. <sigh>

Uh no. There are blogs besides your own you know? Check out Banjo Jones sometime.

and Yes. Yes, I hate Carr. Franchise wrecker.

And yes I do, I do have a new Carr thread almost ready... Do you want to see it? I will tailor it especially for you if you want. It's awesome... I can even work in some multimedia interaction to spice up the ole hum-drum topic.

And I don't eat donuts. I absorb them. Plus you can call me Buddy, buddy. So there I am not so random anymore... and trussst in me.

EDIT:

I need to make a PC edit here and follow the strict orders from my anger management therapist. I do not hate Dave, I hate his rotten miserable play and actions. The person Dave is a beautiful dove that only needs to be nurtured with positive feelings and good will to all. Fluffy lil kitties, cuddly lil bears, butterflies perched upon the branches that hang over the gentle trickle in the creeks that flow beneath our soft naked feet.... ahhh. I feel so much better now.

Texans Horror
07-26-2006, 09:21 AM
You know, it is hard to determine a "blown block." It's not as easy as Player A ran past Player B, so Player B must have missed his block. However, I am confident the line will be something it has never been before in Texans history - a non-factor in the game. Our attention is going to turn to receivers, runners, and (sigh) quarterbacks.

Texans_Chick
07-26-2006, 09:21 AM
Uh no. There are blogs besides your own you know? Check out Banjo Jones sometime.

Hmmmm, I wasn't aware that Banjo Jones wrote what you referenced as one of many the "Houston Texans' blogs" plural. What. Ever.

and Yes. Yes, I hate Carr. Franchise wrecker.

And yes I do, I do have a new Carr thread almost ready... Do you want to see it? I will tailor it especially for you if you want. It's awesome... I can even work in some multimedia interaction to spice up the ole hum-drum topic.

And I don't eat donuts. I absorb them. Plus you can call me Buddy, buddy. So there I am not so random anymore... and trussst in me.

Oh joy.

Texans Horror
07-26-2006, 09:31 AM
Crud. Nevermind the line. Go talk Carr...

:play:

srstex
07-26-2006, 09:34 AM
NFL . com has a poll asking who will catch the Colts. I need all Texans fans to go to the site and vote for our team, and show the rest of the nation how we feel about our team.

jerek
07-26-2006, 09:43 AM
Quick edo hide this--don't you know all 208 times Carr was sacked it was his fault? Regardless of whose fault it was, he never actually got hit hard--seriously, those 208 sacks were so wussy as he ran screaming down the field, looking for the one yard shy marker, trying to brush his California hair from his eyes--they don't amount to what? 3-4 real sacks. If only the Texans had a real tough QB like Ironman McNair who can take a hit and stay out of practice each week for years running.

I'll simply say ... ditto.

What you and everyone else fail to realize was that if Carr was a leader, those linemen wouldn't have blown those blocks. If Carr had "it," Victor Riley would have made the Pro Bowl last year. And if Carr spent more time in practice and less time in church and trimming his long flowing locks, Corey Bradford might actually have caught a ball that hit him dead in the hands. But wait, this is about sacks.

srstex
07-26-2006, 09:57 AM
Now you want to compare Carr to a Hall a Famer in McNair. That is not realistic. McNair came into the league as AirMcNair drafted by the Oilers and backed up Chris Chandler, excellent numbers but fragile, played his first NFL game when Chandler got injured,I was there. McNair also had Matthews at LT the best to ever play, he also played Guard and Center, the Oilers then drafted Brad Hopkins, so to even think about comparisons about Carr & McNair, right now there are none. Matthews HOF.

Runner
07-26-2006, 10:00 AM
I would have thought the line's run blocking alone would have bumped the rating up more than that. Sometimes the focus on pass blocking is a little overboard. I understand 50 sacks a year is way to high, but there are still two facets - passing and running - to the offensive game.

I'm also looking forward to seeing the best players on the field during games. That should move us up a notch or two. :rolleyes:

This is a test.

I just wanted to see if the "quote" button worked on posts about the offensive line. Carry on.

wrestler4life
07-26-2006, 10:03 AM
Uh no. There are blogs besides your own you know? Check out Banjo Jones sometime.

and Yes. Yes, I hate Carr. Franchise wrecker.

And yes I do, I do have a new Carr thread almost ready... Do you want to see it? I will tailor it especially for you if you want. It's awesome... I can even work in some multimedia interaction to spice up the ole hum-drum topic.

And I don't eat donuts. I absorb them. Plus you can call me Buddy, buddy. So there I am not so random anymore... and trussst in me.

EDIT:

I need to make a PC edit here and follow the strict orders from my anger management therapist. I do not hate Dave, I hate his rotten miserable play and actions. The person Dave is a beautiful dove that only needs to be nurtured with positive feelings and good will to all. Fluffy lil kitties, cuddly lil bears, butterflies perched upon the branches that hang over the gentle trickle in the creeks that flow beneath our soft naked feet.... ahhh. I feel so much better now.
If you are this hard to please, I feel sorry for your kids!

TwinSisters
07-26-2006, 10:06 AM
Crud. Nevermind the line. Go talk Carr...

:play:

Agh. The O-line and pass protection are linked to Carr. They ain't running a lot of HB trap plays. Even the entry itself starts out talking about Carr

Abandon all hope, ye who enter here ... especially if thou art a quarterback. Especially if thou art David Carr

And prior to that they talk about injuries to Ahman Green and draw links to the pathetic line.

Which ya know kinda makes you think about Davis a little too.

How is Brett Favre going to have a disaster last season with a line better than the Texans, while Carr is going to break out with a line worse than Green Bay?

One must ponder these deep and 'unseemingly' thoughts. Join me Oso in the fun, because it is. Fun. And deep. And 'unseemingly'.

Favre exhibited a quick release as always, but threw a career-high 29 picks. Sometimes sack totals, such as Green Bay's 27 (third-lowest in the league), are misleading. Take a look at the team's Adjusted Line Yards: 30th in the NFL. Brett, your second farewell tour might be less than you imagined.


if you look at the QB rankings you find Favre at 19 and Carr at 23
lines at 29 and 31.

Let's throw the Cardinals in too

Arizona at 14 QB and 32 O-line

What do you think that means?

19-29
23-31
14-32

I bet we could throw the RBs in there too and find similiar questions

Texans Horror
07-26-2006, 10:09 AM
If Carr had "it," Victor Riley would have made the Pro Bowl last year.

The only way Riley would have made the pro-bowl is if you put Johnathon Ogden or Orlando Pace in his jersey...

Runner
07-26-2006, 10:11 AM
The only way Riley would have made the pro-bowl is if you put Johnathon Ogden or Orlando Pace in his jersey...

I think you could have fit them both in, if you took Riley out first.

Texans Horror
07-26-2006, 10:14 AM
You know, I don't like to bash players, but that guy was all kinds of wrong. And to his credit, I really want to target Pendry when I slam Riley because Pendry put him out there when clearly Riley wasn't ready.

I think this year the line will be much better equipped (i.e., ready) for the season.

jerek
07-26-2006, 10:27 AM
You know, I don't like to bash players, but that guy was all kinds of wrong. And to his credit, I really want to target Pendry when I slam Riley because Pendry put him out there when clearly Riley wasn't ready.

I think this year the line will be much better equipped (i.e., ready) for the season.

Riley was a blankety-blank -- something I won't say because then people will ride me for bashing the guy -- but he did say one of the funniest things I had heard in awhile out at practice facility. Which, incidentally, I can't repeat here either. Family environment and all.

Blame goes to Riley for being out of shape and unmotivated, but blame also goes to Pendry and then to Capers for not dealing with his subordinate when it became apparent he had no idea what he was doing. A coach should know what his players are capable of, and what they aren't capable of. Riley was a guard from the minute he set foot on campus here. He was a guard, IIRC, with the Chiefs. As a coach, it's your job to not only improve a guy and get him ready to play his role, but to place him in a role where his talents (such as they were) are going to be utilized best, and where his weaknesses will harm the team the least.

infantrycak
07-26-2006, 10:32 AM
Riley was a guard from the minute he set foot on campus here. He was a guard, IIRC, with the Chiefs.

Riley played his entire NFL career at RT prior to coming to the Texans.

Link (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=170)

Runner
07-26-2006, 10:38 AM
You know, I don't like to bash players, but that guy was all kinds of wrong. And to his credit, I really want to target Pendry when I slam Riley because Pendry put him out there when clearly Riley wasn't ready.

I think this year the line will be much better equipped (i.e., ready) for the season.

My issue with Riley is that he was chronically a couple of pounds overweight, even given his liberal weight target. At his size and body fat percentage he could have lost a couple of pounds just by cutting out beer for one weekend or late night snacks for a week. It seemed that he'd rather spend the grand a week in fines rather than go through that minimal effort.

I thought that spoke to lack of dedication and is why he is one of the few players I bashed on occasion.

I think a similar lack of dedication won't be tolerated and rewarded with playing time this year.

jerek
07-26-2006, 11:57 AM
Riley played his entire NFL career at RT prior to coming to the Texans.

Link (http://www.houstontexans.com/team/roster_detail.php?PRKey=170)

Well crap. I even checked out a few other links, sure that I was remembering this correctly from somewhere, but no. Good call and thanks for the tip. Still say he had more the physical attributes of a guard, and wasn't good enough to play tackle for us in either event.

JohnGalt
07-26-2006, 12:03 PM
Well crap. I even checked out a few other links, sure that I was remembering this correctly from somewhere, but no. Good call and thanks for the tip. Still say he had more the physical attributes of a guard, and wasn't good enough to play tackle for us in either event.

Aren't guards and centers usually smaller than tackles. I had him picked as a Middle Bench before guard or center

Htown34s
07-26-2006, 12:22 PM
Back to the original topic, we aren't going to get any credit for changing coaches and adding players until we show results on the field. Thats how it always is, sports reporters aren't brave enough to make a bold statement, they play it safe.

infantrycak
07-26-2006, 12:46 PM
Back to the original topic, we aren't going to get any credit for changing coaches and adding players until we show results on the field. Thats how it always is, sports reporters aren't brave enough to make a bold statement, they play it safe.

Foxsports is just republishing a FootballOutsiders article. FO produced the ranking by using last year's stats so by definition it isn't going to reflect any coaching, scheme or player changes.

Runner
07-26-2006, 12:48 PM
Foxsports is just republishing a FootballOutsiders article. FO produced the ranking by using last year's stats so by definition it isn't going to reflect any coaching, scheme or player changes.

So basically it is a ranking of last year's line. We rated 31st in the league last year - thanks Foxsports, I never would have guessed. :)