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Buffi2
07-20-2006, 09:26 PM
http://www.khou.com/sports/texans/stories/khou060720_mh_texanscamp.678b94b.html

:fortune:

Giff Nielsen, Butch Alsandor, and Matt Musil give their predictions for the upcoming season. Nothing great, but at least they are positive, predict 8-8 at the worst and that is nice to hear. Giff even goes so far as to say 10 wins are possible.

At the very least it is a football fix for the day even if Matt Musil does call Mario Maurice.

Go Texans!

TwinSisters
07-20-2006, 09:48 PM
o crap.

If Giff said 10-6... it's going to be 6-10 for sure.

I highly recommend checking out Musil's clip. He tells a funny and interesting story about Kubiak and our practice sessions from last year. Musil smells like a dummy and might not be afraid to stretch the truth a little, but it's still interesting nonetheless.

Insideop
07-20-2006, 10:52 PM
Good stuff! All 3 were pretty optimistic about the season with 8 wins being about the norm. Although, Giff thought 10 wins were a possibility if things fall right. I did find Matt's little story about when the Broncos and Texans were training together last year interesting. Whether the story is true or not I don't know, but the situation of the teams (the Broncos having a system and the Texans didn't) is true. And whether the Texans win 10 games or 6games this year doesn't matter that much to me because I know Kubes has a system in place (and I believe it is a good system) that will ultimately build a long term winner, provided we give him a chance. Thats my :twocents:.
:gotexans1

TexanFan881
07-20-2006, 11:04 PM
Wow, maybe we do have something to look forward too this year :texflag:

Speedy
07-20-2006, 11:39 PM
Yeah, but what we're they predicting last year?

Lucky
07-20-2006, 11:54 PM
...Musil smells like a dummy and might not be afraid to stretch the truth a little, but it's still interesting nonetheless.
I've watched Musil since I can remember, and he's never been a guy who blows smoke. "They're running a system and we're just running plays." That was the plain truth. Funny that Musil likens Mario to MJ, since it was Bush & Young who were compared to Jordan before the draft.

southtexan
07-21-2006, 12:16 AM
Forgive my ignorance, what is the difference between running plays and running a system?

infantrycak
07-21-2006, 12:25 AM
Forgive my ignorance, what is the difference between running plays and running a system?

Think putting on a brave face or going thru the motions vs. developing a plan of attack or practicing how to win.

Lucky
07-21-2006, 12:44 AM
Forgive my ignorance, what is the difference between running plays and running a system?
In a system, like the West Coast Offense, plays work off each other in order to setup the defense and to take advantage of what the offense does best. Say one play will be a straight handoff to the strong side. A compliment play would be a fake to that same strong side run, with a rollout to the weakside. Followed at somepoint by a play where the QB doesn't complete the rollout and throws back to the strong side. A series of plays that work together to keep the defense off balance.

The Texans' offense was just trying to find any play that worked. Then they would run that play until the defense stopped it. Multiple times. I don't think you could point to a series of plays that complimented each other. The Texans ran the heck out of that quick hitch, or "Now" play. But did they ever try to fake that hitch and go upfield? No continuity, no structure. That's the difference.

nunusguy
07-21-2006, 08:12 AM
Giff Nielsen, Butch Alsandor, and Matt Musil give their predictions for the upcoming season.
As much as I like the anchors and weather guy Doc on 11, I dropped that
channel for 13 because Giff & Co are so weak IMO. 13 easily has the best sports crew, and I've also become a huge Gina fan. Dang, I've even gotten
to where I kinda like goofie ole Marvin.
By the way, sometimes I kinda wish that 13 would lose stick-in-the-mood
Dave Ward. Anchor Tom Cook and Gina have such great chemistry together
and actually make the news fun some nights.

aj.
07-21-2006, 08:24 AM
Forgive my ignorance, what is the difference between running plays and running a system?

Forest = system.
Trees = plays
3 Charlie Brown christmas trees = Texans playbook last year

geofb
07-21-2006, 08:34 AM
http://www.khou.com/sports/texans/stories/khou060720_mh_texanscamp.678b94b.html

Giff even goes so far as to say 10 wins are possible.


Giff's credibility takes a big hit in that case. Homerism I suppose. Keep the locals happy and tell them what they want to hear. Hopefully we are headed in the right direction (finally) but we are a long way from 10 wins.

JDizzle
07-21-2006, 08:55 AM
Forest = system.
Trees = plays
3 Charlie Brown christmas trees = Texans playbook last year

Nice.

the wonger need food
07-21-2006, 09:08 AM
Giff's credibility takes a big hit in that case. Homerism I suppose. Keep the locals happy and tell them what they want to hear. Hopefully we are headed in the right direction (finally) but we are a long way from 10 wins.

Well, Giff is definitely not an objective media source. From what I hear he's treated like one of the family over at One Reliant Park.

TwinSisters
07-21-2006, 09:10 AM
I've watched Musil since I can remember, and he's never been a guy who blows smoke. "They're running a system and we're just running plays." That was the plain truth. Funny that Musil likens Mario to MJ, since it was Bush & Young who were compared to Jordan before the draft.

I will start off by saying I don't completely disagree... it could very well be that way.

I did go back and re-listen to Musil though. Here' the thing ( for me ), sports journalism is real formulaic. There are certain patterns and structures to it that are the same and have been the same for many years. The key that I heard was that he was talking to a "Texans' Employee" during a practice. When you hide the source, there is usually something wrong with it. Maybe the employee was the janitor, or the ticket manager, or didn't even exist... who knows because you are not going to track it down anyway.

It's still fishy though too... a Texans' employee talking about their own system to a reporter and dissing it before any games have been played? Nobody knew the Texans were going to implode until our line got hurt and we got drubbed by Seattle. At that point, I think things started to feel bad like... like not only were we not going to the playoffs, but again we would have a losing season and it wasn't just the offensive playcalling because Palmer was fired in week 2.

( well I guess you can say there were a ton of "I always knew" people, but those are usually flakes that didn't really know until after it had already happened )
---

On the system:

I think what Musil is talking about here is more about how and what the plan was for practice as oppossed to the "offensive systems" sense of the word.

Like he is trying to say the Broncos were more disciplined and doing specific tasks and a particular tempo as oppossed to whatever the Texans were doing at the time. That's what I think he is talking about.

edo783
07-21-2006, 09:21 AM
Good videos. Seems to be that 8-8 is the number in their book. Giff didn't actually predict that we would have 10 wins, just that if bounces go our way it could happen. Personally, I think 6-10 is the number, but hope for more.

the wonger need food
07-21-2006, 09:22 AM
Nobody knew the Texans were going to implode until our line got hurt and we got drubbed by Seattle.

A lot of us knew what we were in for after watching the last preseason game against Tampa. The entire team looked completely lost. The battle cry on this board was "It's Only Preseason", but all the signs were there.

TwinSisters
07-21-2006, 09:42 AM
A lot of us saw knew what we were in for after watching the last preseason game against Tampa. The entire team looked completely lost. The battle cry on this board was "It's Only Preseason", but all the signs were there.

Yeah, but this is the same motherboard that knew Reggie Bush was going to be taken at #1 too. ( plus Greg Davis needed be fired, and Young is not a QB, a Carr is great and the other 21 starters are the problem, and a whole host of other perfectly normal things )

SO let me edit that now.

Last season I sat through the whole debacle with a number of football fellas that didn't care one way or the other about the Texans. Remotely interested is the word. In that particular circle, hope for any change wasn't lost until that Seattle game took place. At that point, people could convince 'me' that there was something else wrong besides the playcalling.

so I am not talking for everyone... just sharing how it went down for myself. That I think is the correct way to present it... or a better way to say it.

TexansLucky13
07-21-2006, 10:10 AM
The Texans' offense was just trying to find any play that worked. Then they would run that play until the defense stopped it. Multiple times. I don't think you could point to a series of plays that complimented each other.

Sounds like me when I first started playing Madden. :crying:

Shotgun Z28 Skid was the ultimate play on NFL Blitz :cool:

I predict 7-9. I hope you guys are more correct, though.

Lucky
07-21-2006, 10:20 AM
On the system:

I think what Musil is talking about here is more about how and what the plan was for practice as oppossed to the "offensive systems" sense of the word.

Like he is trying to say the Broncos were more disciplined and doing specific tasks and a particular tempo as oppossed to whatever the Texans were doing at the time. That's what I think he is talking about.
That's absolutely part of it. Bill Walsh has said that his system incorporated every facet of the game. From allotting the practice time, to laying out the game plan, to teaching the players how to line up in the huddle. Certainly it's more than just the schematics of the plays.

I've watched Dom Capers practices for 4 seasons. Just looking at them from the bleachers, the practices had the appearance of being organized and disciplined. It wasn't until the Texans' play on the field manifested that I recognized that my impressions of a efficient practice were only a mirage. The Texans’ lack of cohesion was on display each and every week during the actual games. In the end, a system is only as good as the product on the field each Sunday.

Texans_Chick
07-21-2006, 10:28 AM
I will start off by saying I don't completely disagree... it could very well be that way.
....

On the system:

I think what Musil is talking about here is more about how and what the plan was for practice as oppossed to the "offensive systems" sense of the word.

Like he is trying to say the Broncos were more disciplined and doing specific tasks and a particular tempo as oppossed to whatever the Texans were doing at the time. That's what I think he is talking about.

I think you are correct in relating what Musil meant.

No matter what Musil was saying, actually the biggest difference between last year and this year is what AJ and Lucky are talking about:


In a system, like the West Coast Offense, plays work off each other in order to setup the defense and to take advantage of what the offense does best. Say one play will be a straight handoff to the strong side. A compliment play would be a fake to that same strong side run, with a rollout to the weakside. Followed at somepoint by a play where the QB doesn't complete the rollout and throws back to the strong side. A series of plays that work together to keep the defense off balance.

The Texans' offense was just trying to find any play that worked. Then they would run that play until the defense stopped it. Multiple times. I don't think you could point to a series of plays that complimented each other. The Texans ran the heck out of that quick hitch, or "Now" play. But did they ever try to fake that hitch and go upfield? No continuity, no structure. That's the difference.

The Denver offense often has certain plays scripted to see how the other teams defend them. And then later run plays based on what cheats they saw the defense doing. The offense is all about keeping the defense off balance.

When I was watching the K. Shanahan tape session, he would freeze the tape to show what the defense was doing--who was positioned poorly or cheating a bit--and then show how they exploited it. Sometimes the defense was in the "right" positions, but it didn't matter because of how they set up the previous plays to get the defenders to bite in certain ways.


I think the way they conduct their practice does matter, especially to stop people from getting stale or injured, but I think actually having a play book that has multiple options really be the difference maker.

southtexan
07-21-2006, 05:36 PM
A lot of us knew what we were in for after watching the last preseason game against Tampa. The entire team looked completely lost. The battle cry on this board was "It's Only Preseason", but all the signs were there.
Yes, I was one of those "It's Only Preseason" and "give the OL time to gel." Eventually the Texans are going to have a solid team and I will enjoy that as much as I did after the Oilers became a good team (Moon and CO).

the wonger need food
07-21-2006, 05:55 PM
Yes, I was one of those "It's Only Preseason" and "give the OL time to gel." Eventually the Texans are going to have a solid team and I will enjoy that as much as I did after the Oilers became a good team (Moon and CO).

Won't we all...

hollywood_texan
07-21-2006, 06:03 PM
This is barely a 5 win team without any training camp to watch, not to mention preseason games. Too many changes have been made and this team was too horrible to think they are going to be able turn things around that quickly and never have seen the team play at full speed in pads. These guys saying this, are out of their minds or just stupid, because there is no evidence to support a prediction of 8 wins or better at this time.

We need to all get a grip at the moment.

We will know much about this team after the preseason and even more if they perform against Philadelphia in the home opener.

My prediction, if they lose to Philly in the home opener, they will win around 5 games. Beat Philly, they will be starting off on the right foot to get things cooking for an 8 - 8 season.

I explain why at, http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=385795#post385795

Lucky
07-21-2006, 06:30 PM
These guys saying this, are out of their minds or just stupid, because there is no evidence to support a prediction of 8 wins or better at this time.
Do you think that this Texan team can be better than '04 version? If so, why can't this team have a better record than a team that finished with a 7-9 mark? I would call that an optimistic prediction. But hardly crazy or stupid.

the wonger need food
07-21-2006, 06:39 PM
Do you think that this Texan team can be better than '04 version? If so, why can't this team have a better record than a team that finished with a 7-9 mark? I would call that an optimistic prediction. But hardly crazy or stupid.

It looks like they have more talent than they did in '04, however their schedule appears to be tougher and the divsional opponents appear to be better than they were in '04.

The thing that we have to worry about is the snowball affect with this team. We saw it in '04 after the Denver game and last season after the first game. In the past couple of seasons they lost confidence after these loses, but I think that was a byproduct of the system they were in.

The Pencil Neck
07-21-2006, 10:43 PM
In the past couple of seasons they lost confidence after these loses, but I think that was a byproduct of the system they were in.

We hope it was a byproduct of the system.

The thing is that there's a fine line between going 8-8 and going 5-11 or even 11-5 for that matter. A couple of bad bounces, a couple of bad calls, an injury or two, a couple of bad play calls and you lose 5 games you should have won.