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TexansSeminole
07-18-2006, 10:42 PM
What is our weakest position? And what do you think we will address in next years first round?

Runner
07-18-2006, 10:46 PM
What is our weakest position? And what do you think we will address in next years first round?

Nice discussion topic. I'd say...hmmm. Probably safety, and I doubt we'd use a first round pick to address it. We could get a decent one in later rounds, if we didn't go the free agent route for a quick fix.

TexanFan881
07-18-2006, 10:48 PM
Our weakest position is CB. We need a real solid #2 CB. I'm one of those who think Buchanon can really pull through this year. But as of now our weakest position is CB. I think we're solid everywhere else. And we can be solid here depending on Buchanon. I'd like to use a first round pick next year on a CB to pair up with former first round pick Dunta Robinson.

I think we are better at safety than it seems. CC sounds like he's really developed after his first year until now and Earl has been solid for us.

TexansFan4EvR
07-18-2006, 10:53 PM
Safety and Corners.
D-rob is the only one to show some talent out of the group. I honestly believe D-rob is overhyped and only had those interceptions because people were afraid to throw to arron glen's side. ( Ah the good ole days ). I see him get burnt some times and then others he's not in the right place. I do believe though he will be great with time.
P-Buc = P-Burnt. Worst trade so far for the Texans, last year he made me sick to even see him play football. I mean how do you not have the heart to tackle somebody? Makes me kinda angry I played football and I never was scared to get hit or hit by somebody else, part of the game if you dont like dont play!
Earl- dont know much about him. From what all of you say is true then he must be pretty good to play. But I think we could get an upgrade in the draft next year.
C.C - showed some good talent last year. Hes not scared to lay the stick to somebody. Made some good plays on the runs, but on the passing I dont think he was that good. But experience will come with him and I bet he'll be pretty good for us for years to come.
So I think that we should get D-rob some more talent on the other side if P-burnt decides that he dosent want to tackle anybody.:twocents:

TexansSeminole
07-18-2006, 10:54 PM
Nice discussion topic. I'd say...hmmm. Probably safety, and I doubt we'd use a first round pick to address it. We could get a decent one in later rounds, if we didn't go the free agent route for a quick fix.

I agree that safety is our weakest position. We really dont have any depth there or solid starters. C.C. Brown looks like he will turn into a solid starter but we still need to put some money in this position.

As far as next year's first round I think we will address an offensive line position or linebacker.

YoungTexanFan
07-18-2006, 10:54 PM
I feel FS is our weakest position right now. We do not have a legimate FS on our roster. I consider Brown more of a stop gap, only briding us until next year. I think his lack of coverage skills and innability to turn and run with the recievers, as well as quickly and properly recognize the play will show through more than everyone hopes for and he will be exposed as a back up. I like the guy however, and hope he stays with us, I just want a centierfielder at FS, not an undersized SS.

texan279
07-18-2006, 10:58 PM
CB's and S's are our weakest position IMO.

WILLIEG
07-18-2006, 11:00 PM
I believe the 2 weakest postions on the team is at CB and MLB. Depending on who falls to us in the draft, I would like to see upgrades in those 2 postions immediately.

Smokedawg
07-18-2006, 11:01 PM
As of right now our Secondary but, with our new front 7 who knows by next year.

TexansSeminole
07-18-2006, 11:03 PM
I feel FS is our weakest position right now. We do not have a legimate FS on our roster. I consider Brown more of a stop gap, only briding us until next year. I think his lack of coverage skills and innability to turn and run with the recievers, as well as quickly and properly recognize the play will show through more than everyone hopes for and he will be exposed as a back up. I like the guy however, and hope he stays with us, I just want a centierfielder at FS, not an undersized SS.

Yea i agree, i think that CC is a SS. But i do think he will improve in coverage, and I think that maybe a year at the FS position will help him do that. Maybe next year we can pick up a talented young FS to take over and move CC to SS.

If Flanagan starts to slow down next year and looks like he may only have a few years left (or if he gets injured)...I think we would probably pick up the best center prospect in next years draft. It would be a perfect position where he could learn under Flanagan for his first couple of years and then take over.

Wolf
07-18-2006, 11:05 PM
I agree with the secondary

just to :stirpot:

what about Center?

Flannigan goes down.. you think Drew or McKinney (gets moved back over) would be adequate?

Hutch13
07-18-2006, 11:05 PM
Secondary

Wolf
07-18-2006, 11:06 PM
If Flanagan starts to slow down next year and looks like he may only have a few years left (or if he gets injured)...I think we would probably pick up the best center prospect in next years draft. It would be a perfect position where he could learn under Flanagan for his first couple of years and then take over.

you beat me to the punch

infantrycak
07-18-2006, 11:28 PM
I just want a centierfielder at FS, not an undersized SS.

Ummm, yeah:

Pro bowl safeties
FS
Bob Sanders 5' 8" 206 lbs
John Lynch 6' 2" 220 lbs
Darren Sharper 6' 2" 210 lbs

SS
Troy Polamalu 5' 10" 212 lbs
Roy Williams 6' 226 lbs
Brian Dawkins 6' 210 lbs
Mike Brown 5' 10" 207 lbs

CC Brown 6' 208 lbs--clearly the Texans were nuts to take such a shrimp.

Doom Capers
07-18-2006, 11:29 PM
Linebacker. We have an injuried guy, and old guy, a rookie, and a few other guys who shouldn't be more than second string. The only guy I am sold on is greenwood.

MorKnolle
07-18-2006, 11:30 PM
What is our weakest position? And what do you think we will address in next years first round?

1) #2 CB - I am pretty nervous about Faggins and PBuch having to play significant time, Faggins is a pretty hard worker but just isn't athletic enough, and Buchanon has the athleticism but not the toughness. Hopefully Buchanon will pull his head out of his rear this year and the new coaching staff can get something good out of him, but I'm not counting on it, Faggins will forever have pretty limited potential.
2) FS - Brown and Earl are both functional safeties but neither are real good in coverage, we could use an upgrade there if our defensive scheme calls for a safety that can cover people well. Our new defense may not require safeties that can cover people real well, it might be predicated more on heavy pressure and need safeties that are bigger hitters (John Lynch types) that can help in run support and hit people downfield as the DLine and LBs get quick pressure on the QB and don't allow them to throw deep routes downfield.

Grid
07-18-2006, 11:38 PM
Next year I see us going OLB, FS, RB, and OG... with CB as a possibility.

I figure that we will want to further improve our passrush and OLB seems to be our biggest hole in that. (assuming Ryans becomes an ILB)

FS because we lack a REAL FS.. a ball hawk that can really take advantage of our new pass rush.

RB because we are old and/or rickity at the position.. we need more there..and I think Kube will want to take RBs every year.

OG because we are old at the position and we need to start grooming.

CB is an outside shot because I think Pbuch is learning.. I think he has the athletic ability.. and I think with a pass rush (something he has yet to really have in the pros) he will shine. But he may fall on his face..so its a possibility.


This is my initial impression.. before training camp and a single game has been played :D.. by the end of the season I may be saying we need an SS, FB, and kicker.. for all I know.

thetexanator
07-18-2006, 11:57 PM
Linebackers and Safeties

both are pretty weak

oline got some good depth this year

TexansSeminole
07-19-2006, 12:47 AM
The only FS i would take in the first would be LeRon Landry.

beerlover
07-19-2006, 02:22 AM
if Wand is our starting LT then that's my vote. I'm one who would rather keep Pitts @ LT & we all know its tough on a rookie to fill that position (D'Brickashaw Ferguson would probably even struggled). :stirpot:
looking out one season at this point is too far, who honestly knows what the Texans will need to aquire this early for next year, hell I could'nt pick two days before the last draft as to who the Texans would ultimately select. :shoot:

the wonger need food
07-19-2006, 08:03 AM
1.) Quarterback - Until Davie Franchise shows (on the field) that he is a legitimate NFL QB, this position is a huge weakness.

2.) Linebacker - Morlon Greenwood is the best linebacker out of the bunch (until Ryans proves otherwise)... enough said.

3.) Offensive Line - 4 returning starters from one of the worst pass blocking lines in NFL history.

4.) Secondary - Lots of youth.

infantrycak
07-19-2006, 08:11 AM
3.) Offensive Line - 4 returning starters from one of the worst pass blocking lines in NFL history.

4? Wand is not a returning starter nor if Flannigan.

McKinney and Wiegert are returning starters in new positions. Pitts is the only guy set to play in the position he began in last season.

jerek
07-19-2006, 09:41 AM
As of right now our Secondary but, with our new front 7 who knows by next year.

Ditto. Any Pro Bowler DB would have looked bad in our secondary last year. I'll withhold judgment until I see how they do with a real pass rush.

SBTexans08
07-19-2006, 09:44 AM
I'd agree..our secondary.

HOU-TEX
07-19-2006, 09:50 AM
I think in the first round we should pick up a RB. The second and maybe even third round we should pick up some DBs.:spy:

TheOgre
07-19-2006, 09:50 AM
The back seven on defense.

Texans Horror
07-19-2006, 10:03 AM
This is a hard question since so much has changed. But the only "area" that has not been altered radically seems to be the Defensive secondary. I think the Texans are hoping that the new 4-3 with different players will make life easier for the secondary, especially as it concerns the quarterback. Peyton and Byron both have trouble when a good rush is put on them. Regardless, our secondary will have to face the likes of David Givens, Marvin Lewis, and several other quality receivers. It is going to be an interesting year...

Texans_Chick
07-19-2006, 10:03 AM
Hmmmm. It is a shorter list to talk about what doesn't need help (wide receivers, tight end, d-line):

I'm not going to repeat everyone else's answers but:

Running back. If DD's knees aren't good, we are in some deep stuff. Morency has foot issues right now, Smith is oldish, and then we have a bunch of rookies. The offense is ALL about having a legit running attack, and is not the sort where you would want to start a rookie.

Special teams. Kicking was bad last year, we lost Mathis, there will likely be a bunch of new guys here. I like Marciano as a coach but I will be interested to see what sorta stuff he is going to make of this. This is the first year he is not going to have a designated guy like a JJ or a Mathis back there. Sometimes the position players he has that have filled in have been ick--Aaron Glenn returning kicks was an adventure.

phan1
07-19-2006, 10:05 AM
I think we could be pretty bad at LB too. Hopefully guys like Orr and Anderson can step it up, cause I'm not totally sold on our starting 3. Demeco Ryans seems like a good pick, but I don't have too much faith in Greenwood.

Texans Horror
07-19-2006, 10:08 AM
Hmmmm. It is a shorter list to talk about what doesn't need help (wide receivers, tight end, d-line):

I'm not going to repeat everyone else's answers but:

Running back. If DD's knees aren't good, we are in some deep stuff. Morency has foot issues right now, Smith is oldish, and then we have a bunch of rookies. The offense is ALL about having a legit running attack, and is not the sort where you would want to start a rookie.

Special teams. Kicking was bad last year, we lost Mathis, there will likely be a bunch of new guys here. I like Marciano as a coach but I will be interested to see what sorta stuff he is going to make of this. This is the first year he is not going to have a designated guy like a JJ or a Mathis back there. Sometimes the position players he has that have filled in have been ick--Aaron Glenn returning kicks was an adventure.

I was debating on the impact of special teams, too. It seems to be a big question mark. At the same time, I am hoping that a key difference this year will be that I am no longer hoping Mathis will put us in enemy territory so we have a chance to score - hopefully this year, if the receiver can get us to our twenty/twenty-five, the offense can hold the ball for more than 3-and-out.

srstex
07-19-2006, 10:10 AM
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
Our front 4 wqill make all the difference in the world

JohnGalt
07-19-2006, 10:10 AM
I think the secondary is the weakest link on the team. Let's hope the front four can generate enough pass rush so the back 7 can drop back into coverage.

If Wand can pull it together under Sherman's coaching, I think the o-line will be a non-issue in '06. Maybe even a strength if they are injury free. The Denver system is a very o-line friendly way to run an offense.

Porky
07-19-2006, 10:26 AM
Very specific - FS and LT.

More general - Secondary

I am not buying CC Brown as a Free Safety. He is out of position. He is a Glenn Earl clone. I didn't understand why you would draft a clone of a guy you already have in Earl. We need a more rangy guy that can run.

LT - As it stands right NOW, LT is a major weakness. This potentially could change quickly if Spencer can play quickly, or Wand is better than I think.

As a group, I am going to say the secondary. Beyond D-rob, is there one above average player in any of those other positions? P-buch? Please, he is terrible. The other guys are either not athletic enough, or under-sized etc. Earl and CC are hard hitting run supporters who cannot cover.

YoungTexanFan
07-19-2006, 10:48 AM
4? Wand is not a returning starter nor if Flannigan.

McKinney and Wiegert are returning starters in new positions. Pitts is the only guy set to play in the position he began in last season.

Finally, I think I caught one of your mistakes this time.

Pitts played LT last year, and is set to play LG this year with Wand starting at LT.

Porky
07-19-2006, 10:52 AM
Finally, I think I caught one of your mistakes this time.

Pitts played LT last year, and is set to play LG this year with Wand starting at LT.

Nice try, but he gotcha! Pitts started last season at LG. He moved LT after the Riley experiment failed.

srstex
07-19-2006, 10:57 AM
Who didn't play Left Tackle last year? Sherman said Wand is the guy, I dissagree, but he has been a winning coach for a while so I conceed. Winning cures all ills, except hang overs, and I believe in our coaching staff. Our LB core is actually preety good, Greenwood had over 100 tackles and is mobile, Ryans is quick as well, if Wong can come back that would be a big boost, and every time Orr lines up, he is near the ball. T-Buc will be able to gamble more with the front four putting more pressure on the QB, and that is what made him a viable CB, INT's.
Stop the run first, Kubiak, so our safties are in line with the scheme.

Brandon420tx
07-19-2006, 11:08 AM
Who didn't play Left Tackle last year? Sherman said Wand is the guy, I dissagree, but he has been a winning coach for a while so I conceed. Winning cures all ills, except hang overs, and I believe in our coaching staff. Our LB core is actually preety good, Greenwood had over 100 tackles and is mobile, Ryans is quick as well, if Wong can come back that would be a big boost, and every time Orr lines up, he is near the ball. T-Buc will be able to gamble more with the front four putting more pressure on the QB, and that is what made him a viable CB, INT's.
Stop the run first, Kubiak, so our safties are in line with the scheme.

A majority of Greenwoods tackles last year came 4-6 yards past the line of scrimmage, Ryans is a hopeful, and Wong is our best LB (IMO) if he can get healthy, If our D-line is supposed to be our main rushing tool, then don't expect to see much blitzing except when we want to confuse the other team (Manning) or our regular 4-man rush doesn't cut it against the opposing line (Hopefully doesn't happen) so our LB's primary jobs will be stopping the run, and coverage over the middle, so Orr might not be blitzing as much this year, but hopefully he controls his side of the field and can prove to be a force against the running game, and continue his great blitzing potential when we call on him. So to sum up (My opinions) our brightspots at LB are Ryans, Wong (If he can recover), and Orr (He proves that he can be as much of a gamechanger against the run as he was against the pass, I personally loved this guy from his first special teams tackle) I say we take another LB in next years draft just to be safe, then in the second round go to O-Line (Still could use more depth) and maybe secondary depending on how we play this year.:poker:

/end long post :rant:

Edit: oh yea, and take the best Kicker in the draft late in the third round(You know... from like the 32 pick), hopefully either this year or next year when (I think) Kris Browns contract expires..... and ....(Rugby player for punter?)

HOU-TEX
07-19-2006, 11:16 AM
[QUOTE=Brandon420tx]A majority of Greenwoods tackles last year came 4-6 yards past the line of scrimmage, Ryans is a hopeful, and Wong is our best LB (IMO) if he can get healthy, If our D-line is supposed to be our main rushing tool, then don't expect to see much blitzing except when we want to confuse the other team (Manning) or our regular 4-man rush doesn't cut it against the opposing line (Hopefully doesn't happen) so our LB's primary jobs will be stopping the run, and coverage over the middle, so Orr might not be blitzing as much this year, but hopefully he controls his side of the field and can prove to be a force against the running game, and continue his great blitzing potential when we call on him. So to sum up (My opinions) our brightspots at LB are Ryans, Wong (If he can recover), and Orr (He proves that he can be as much of a gamechanger against the run as he was against the pass, I personally loved this guy from his first special teams tackle) I say we take another LB in next years draft just to be safe, then in the second round go to O-Line (Still could use more depth) and maybe secondary depending on how we play this year.:poker:

/end long post :rant:
QUOTE]

Personally, I think Wong is overrated. He was ok when he was heathy but I think we have better younger LBs than him. :stirpot:

Brandon420tx
07-19-2006, 11:26 AM
Personally, I think Wong is overrated. He was ok when he was heathy but I think we have better younger LBs than him. :stirpot:

From what we have on our team (Not counting our rookie) He probably is our best when healthy, (for other teams that might not be the case), He plays against the pass and run with a decent to good to pretty good range of quality. If he can't recover from his injury then I think it would be a great idea to draft another future LB star to go alongside Demeco and strengthen the middle of our Defense for the future.

I'll go a step farther and predict the entire draft next year (Barring serious injury)

1st round: LB
2nd round: O-Line or DB (Fast hard hitter to compliment Dunta, can be either CB or S)
3rd round: Kicker (HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA :stirpot: )
4th round: O-Line or DB (Which ever wasn't picked in round 2)
5th round: O-Line (Project) or RB (Depth)
6th round: BPA
7th round: BPA

YoungTexanFan
07-19-2006, 11:28 AM
Nice try, but he gotcha! Pitts started last season at LG. He moved LT after the Riley experiment failed.

Well, if you want to be that specific about it then McKinny also played RG last year when Drew Hodgen started at C before injury, and Weigert finished the year at RT. The Riley experiment failed quickly, and Pitts was a LT the majority of last year.

On a seperate note, how is infantrycak ALWAYS right with these deep statistics and everything else?? Has that man ever been wrong? I've been here a long, long time, and this is just the FIST mistake I caught, or thought I caught from him.

HOU-TEX
07-19-2006, 11:46 AM
From what we have on our team (Not counting our rookie) He probably is our best when healthy, (for other teams that might not be the case), He plays against the pass and run with a decent to good to pretty good range of quality. If he can't recover from his injury then I think it would be a great idea to draft another future LB star to go alongside Demeco and strengthen the middle of our Defense for the future.

I'll go a step farther and predict the entire draft next year (Barring serious injury)

1st round: LB
2nd round: O-Line or DB (Fast hard hitter to compliment Dunta, can be either CB or S)
3rd round: Kicker (HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA :stirpot: )
4th round: O-Line or DB (Which ever wasn't picked in round 2)
5th round: O-Line (Project) or RB (Depth)
6th round: BPA
7th round: BPA

I agree with picking somebody else up at LB. Who's going to be out there next year? I think the good LB crop was this year. Can you imagine if Hawk was in the draft next year and we picked him to go with Demeco?:drool:

I'm not too sure we're going to need to pick up anymore linemen. We drafted two this past year and one the year before. If Winston and Spencer pan out, we'll be ok at oline. We should pick up a good RB in the first rd and then DB in the second and third.

infantrycak
07-19-2006, 11:47 AM
Well, if you want to be that specific about it then McKinny also played RG last year when Drew Hodgen started at C

McKinney played at LG last year when Hodg was at C.

Brandon420tx
07-19-2006, 11:59 AM
Can you imagine if Hawk was in the draft next year and we picked him to go with Demeco?:drool:

I'm not too sure we're going to need to pick up anymore linemen. We drafted two this past year and one the year before. If Winston and Spencer pan out, we'll be ok at oline. We should pick up a good RB in the first rd and then DB in the second and third.

We can always improve for the future, and a fresh guard sounds nice.

Time to imagine Demeco and Hawk together in Texans Uniforms:pigfly: I can dream though.

Wharton
07-19-2006, 12:17 PM
Until our O-line plays better, that’s my pick. Particularly, LT.

I will qualify that statement with "I think our o-line will improve throughout the season due to our new center, our two new tackles and finally improved line and head coaches."

Other weaknesses include LB and DB.

I am firm believer that a ball control offense can make up for a lot of weaknesses on defense. Jimmy Johnson was once quoted to say "the best thing about our defense is we keep them off the field."

Works for me. :)

U4ikrob
07-19-2006, 01:25 PM
Weakest positions - CB, LB & RB

1st round next year - CB or LB

Maybe its just me, but IMO havent been too impressed with Greenwood esp after the big signing bonus and touting of him being a big addition to the LB corp. I think we seriously overpaid for him because we were an expansion club in need of bodies - not his body of work demanding it. IMO he only got those glaring tackle #'s last year because of injuries to Wong and others not because of his superior production on the field as shown by his overall stats. He's only produced like last year one other time and has never had more than 2 sacks in a year.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/4310/career;_ylt=AphUhfCV6YnxgID36IljqdP.uLYF

IMO Wong was our best LB when healthy last year. It will be interesting to see how Ryans, Anderson, Polk, Greenwood, Orr, Cowart and if Wong makes it back how they will respond in the new defense and who will be producing on the field. I have a hunch it wont be who some think it is and I think you will see D-wreck crack the starting lineup by the start of the season. Shifting back to the 4-3 this year will let the linebackers have a little lesspressure, require less "Read Plays" and more just reacting to the ball. Hopefully they will all take advantage of it.

:fieldgoal

powerfuldragon
07-19-2006, 01:41 PM
Weakest postitions in order (IMO):

1. CB
2. RB
3. LB

TexansSeminole
07-19-2006, 01:51 PM
This next year will be strong in linebackers as well. If alot of juniors come out it will be stronger than this year was.

Personally I think Paul Posluszny is just as good as Hawk...the only thing Hawk has on him is speed, and im not even 100% sure about that. Buster Davis out of FSU is a good linebacker too; last year he played the middle but this year he may be playing on the outside. A little sleeper for LB this year is Lawrence Timmons out of FSU. He was awarded the "Hit Stick" this year in spring training, and not alot of linebackers at FSU are given the hit stick that early. If you thought Sims could hit, watch out for this guy. 6'3 235 and fast. O and by the way, since alot of FSU games are televised this year, he is #83. Not that you wont notice him when you watch the games. Just a little FSU insider for you there, I beleive he is 1st round caliber. Only problem is he will be a junior next year, but I think he will be this years Ernie Sims.

This year is the perfect year to pick up secondary, there will be some talent left in the second and third.

HomeBred_Texan
07-19-2006, 02:02 PM
Weakest postitions in order (IMO):

1. CB
2. RB
3. LB
I agree here 100%. And say that we will draft a rb in 1st next year then get a CB or LB....

TexansSeminole
07-19-2006, 02:04 PM
Don't forget safety, unless we plan to pick up one in free agency, I wouldn't understand if we didn't pick up one in the first three rounds next year. Kubiak has worked well with RBs in the past that were drafted after the third.

Texans Horror
07-19-2006, 03:02 PM
All this talk of drafting a running back with the first round pick next year is interesting. My understanding of the Denver offensive system is that it is designed to make average backs look really good. For that reason, I don't think that RB will ever be high on the Texans' needs list.

HOU-TEX
07-19-2006, 04:01 PM
All this talk of drafting a running back with the first round pick next year is interesting. My understanding of the Denver offensive system is that it is designed to make average backs look really good. For that reason, I don't think that RB will ever be high on the Texans' needs list.

The way I look at it is if the Broncos have had that kind of success with a sub par RB, what if they had a first rounder in the same position? One that has had proven size, speed and agility in college. :twocents:

South Texan
07-19-2006, 04:48 PM
We have SO many unknowns right now; how the vets will respond to the new coaching staff, how fast the rookies will come along, how effective will playing to win vs. playing to stay close work, etc., etc., etc.

At the moment, I would like to see some depth in the secondary in case of injury if for no other reason.

And if we happen on a Kicker with 99% accuracy from 70+ yards that might be nice too! Hopefully though, the kicker will be kicking mostly points after rather than long FG's. :ok:

U4ikrob
07-19-2006, 04:56 PM
Don't forget safety, unless we plan to pick up one in free agency, I wouldn't understand if we didn't pick up one in the first three rounds next year. Kubiak has worked well with RBs in the past that were drafted after the third.

Nod - agree. We certainly need a good safety and think we will look to pick up one in the second or third round next year. I think RB will be addressed in either the third or fourth round depending on who is available at our spot. My top pick for next year would be another shut down corner in the 1st roudn to pair up with D-rob and help solidify our secondary & nickel packages.

My draft predictions for next year
cb-lb = indicated Looking 1st at a CB then a LB
[BPA picks of that position in order of priority]

1st - CB-LB
2nd - LB-CB-Safety
3rd - Safety-RB
4th - RB-WR
5th - LB-ST
6th - OL-ST
7th - DL-ST

threetoedpete
07-19-2006, 05:50 PM
What is our weakest position? And what do you think we will address in next years first round?

1. Linebacker
2. Defensive end
3. DT
4. QB
5. Safety
6. Kicker

If there is a loooooad of safties and IF the line come around... I could see us wading in on a another young LB. If the Wade/Spencer experiment fails...LT.
If the Wade Spencer experiment fails and Carr gets Killed...QB.

kencop975
07-19-2006, 06:04 PM
I am a long time Houston sports fan and a first time Texans season ticket holder. I am definitely ready for football to begin. What are we realistically going to have this year?

Grid
07-19-2006, 06:24 PM
realistically we should be hoping for 6-10, 7-9. That would be a good enough improvement over last year to show us that we are on the right track. Potentially we could do as well as 10-6, 11-5.. and those arent "off the wall" possibilities.. but not what we should be "expecting"

the wonger need food
07-19-2006, 06:28 PM
How does Quarterback not make anyone's list? Has no one seen the play of Dave Carr the past season and a half???

dat_boy_yec
07-19-2006, 06:30 PM
Right now I don't know about what is the weakest position because there are so many unknowns. Like how the rookies will play and whatnot. However from where I stand I could go on what the biggest uncertaintaties are.

1) RB- DD's knees are not well right now. There is no indication that he will be well by the time the season starts or if it will be a chronic problem or if he can last. Behind him we have Morrency. Alot of people are convinced this guy is going to step it up a notch, I disagree. His lack of vision and balance is not something that can so easily be corrected neither is his running style which is something that Kubiak has commented on before. I don't think Morrency will fit the system and I don't think he will have much success here. Behind them are a few rookies who alot of people are getting their hopes up about and thinking T. Davis and P. Holmes. While it would be great if that happened at this point there is no way of knowing. So that leaves us with A. Smith as the starter and workhorse. While I think highly of Smith, I don't think he is the answer. So this is the biggest questionmark I.M.O.

Gee, now that I think about it, RB is the only real uncertainty on our team. I mean we know CC is a good safety with the potential to get better and Earl while not as good also has proven he can play in the league and has alot of room to grow. I agree we could upgrade this position in next years draft, but sitting here I don't see them being overwhelmed by the grind of the season.

@ CB I think D-Rob is solid and is basically the anchor in the secondary. While P-Buch hasn't played up to his potential and can be upgraded. He has put forth alot of effort this offseason and at the very worst would only be serviceable.

@ LB- I think that Greenwood and Orr have proven they can play well. We have alot of new LB's but as someone said with the front four providing much of the pressure our LB's don't have to be spectacular and with Ryans potential this could turn out to be a very solid group.

That's all I can think of right now.

dat_boy_yec
07-19-2006, 06:32 PM
If I were to make a prediction on next years first rd. pick I would think its BPA.

NoBullTexan
07-19-2006, 06:42 PM
Weakest positions going in to this year has to be:

#1-MLB (Cowart and Rainer don't excite me.)

#2-FS ( C.C. Brown is a SS. Kevin Curtis might be OK, time will tell.)

#3-Depth at CB where Faggins tries, and pBurnt has so far dissappointed. Dunta really needs help. Can help be at hand in the form of Sanders, McKenzie
,or Walker?

There could be more depth on the OL, DT, &/or WR/TE. But these positions seem to be OK for another year at least.

TexansSeminole
07-19-2006, 06:55 PM
Weakest positions going in to this year has to be:

#1-MLB (Cowart and Rainer don't excite me.)

#2-FS ( C.C. Brown is a SS. Kevin Curtis might be OK, time will tell.)

#3-Depth at CB where Faggins tries, and pBurnt has so far dissappointed. Dunta really needs help. Can help be at hand in the form of Sanders, McKenzie
,or Walker?

There could be more depth on the OL, DT, &/or WR/TE. But these positions seem to be OK for another year at least.

This is pretty much my exact thinking, but maybe switch MLB and FS.

the wonger need food
07-19-2006, 06:55 PM
I really wanted to say QB, but seems like everyone around these parts are pretty defensive of their QB.

Even got zapped with a negative earlier for saying that I would've rather had Bush than MW.

I feel your pain brother. It's like saying something bad about Elvis in Tennessee.

The people that aren't concerned about the most important position on the field, after seeing the last 25+ games, are experiencing some sort of disconnect from reality. This place feels like an Outer Limits episode at times.

The Pencil Neck
07-19-2006, 07:38 PM
How does Quarterback not make anyone's list? Has no one seen the play of Dave Carr the past season and a half???

No. None of us were watching DC the past couple of years.

threetoedpete
07-19-2006, 10:01 PM
you beat me to the punch
Yeah Ive just wondering for a few weeks...and I know I'll be blasted....If you don't go the other way and have Hodgdon starting the season with Flanagan off the pine. Flanagan goes down...6-10 is gonna look aweful good. Wonder if Winston can snap the ball in a crisis ? And no I haven't forgot about Mac. :hides:

swtbound07
07-19-2006, 10:27 PM
I'll say it.

Weakest positions in order

1) qb
2) qb
3) qb

Getting rid of David Carr should be the teams #1 priority...this whole experiment has been a terrible mistake. Trade him for a decent FS and kill 2 birds with one stone

tsip
07-19-2006, 10:48 PM
"7. Gary Kubiak, Houston: The former Denver Broncos offensive coordinator faces some lofty expectations after replacing Dom Capers, because Texans owner Bob McNair and the fans are no longer satisfied with merely being in the NFL. Although top overall draft pick Mario Williams has the tall task of making people forget that the team passed on Bush, the focal point of scrutiny for Kubiak's rookie season will be the performance of David Carr."

This is from NFL.com where they rank how well the 10 new HC's will do this season. As you can see, they believe Carr's performance will affect Kubiak's rookie season. I know most fans believe we are set at QB this fall, but that still remains to be seen. IMO, it's ironic that most posters believe that Carr's on field results were the only ones affected by Capers and company, yet-as Kubiak stresses himself--'how Carr goes, the team goes.' Let's hope that accountability or lack there of does not translate into 'Chapter 5' of Carr still looking for his 'promise land.'

http://nfl.com/news/story/9560415

infantrycak
07-19-2006, 10:52 PM
IMO, it's ironic that most posters believe that Carr's on field results were the only ones affected by Capers and company, yet-as Kubiak stresses himself--'how Carr goes, the team goes.'

Really, is it ironic or myopic (by you)? Can you name all the folks (heck even a few representing the majority) who believe Carr was adversely affected but the OL wasn't a victim of Pendry, the O wasn't a victim of Capers and Pendry, Fangio's D didn't suck, etc. I am sure there a couple of folks in any group this size who think Carr was the only one affected by bad coaching but it sure as hell isn't a majority of the MB.

Tulip
07-19-2006, 11:00 PM
How does Quarterback not make anyone's list? Has no one seen the play of Dave Carr the past season and a half???

QB is on my list. If something happens to David Carr (or if he continues to play at a sub-par level), the Texans have no real backup plan.

Ole Miss Texan
07-19-2006, 11:09 PM
1st round
Linebacker Patrick Willis 6'2 230 lbs Ole Miss

2nd round
Safety Brandon Merriweather Miami

There should be a lot of UT fans here...
what do yall think of Tarrell Brown CB or Michael Griffin S

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
07-19-2006, 11:14 PM
Sign me up on the Paul Posluszny bandwagon.

YoungTexanFan
07-19-2006, 11:21 PM
1. Linebacker
2. Defensive end
3. DT
4. QB
5. Safety
6. Kicker

If there is a loooooad of safties and IF the line come around... I could see us wading in on a another young LB. If the Wade/Spencer experiment fails...LT.
If the Wade Spencer experiment fails and Carr gets Killed...QB.

What the heck are you talking about? DE at #2? We are stacked with Mario, Kalu, Weaver who is a DE and was moved because of an abuncance, Peek, Babin. DT at #3? Robaire, TJ, Payne, Weaver, and some young guys we have for depth that im not going to look up right now. QB is your opinion, but a #3 QB shouldnt be an issue.

TwinSisters
07-19-2006, 11:38 PM
QB is on my list. If something happens to David Carr (or if he continues to play at a sub-par level), the Texans have no real backup plan.

Don't worry.

We drafted Owen Daniels.

tsip
07-20-2006, 12:23 AM
Really, is it ironic or myopic (by you)? Can you name all the folks (heck even a few representing the majority) who believe Carr was adversely affected but the OL wasn't a victim of Pendry, the O wasn't a victim of Capers and Pendry, Fangio's D didn't suck, etc. I am sure there a couple of folks in any group this size who think Carr was the only one affected by bad coaching but it sure as hell isn't a majority of the MB.

I'm basing my opinion on the topic of this thread, and the fact that so many posters choose a position-other than QB-as positions that need major improvements. These posters see all kinds of short comings in these other players but not Carr. Why? If people can justify Carr's lack of results by 'things' that were not his fault, and believe his performance will be so much better this year, why don't they hold the same opinions for the other positions? Why do these players need to be upgraded and replaced and not 'cut the same slack' as Carr?

South Texan
07-20-2006, 12:59 AM
Since day 1 Carr has had very limited time in the pocket, under abundance of reliable targets, and serious lack of coaching. In other words, we really don't know about him. The optimistic side of me would like to think that Kubiak's concentration on the QB spot, 2 good WR's and TE's that can catch the ball will bring him around.

If he gets decent protection in the pocket this year, and still doesn't perform, I agree he is out of excuses and a QB should be high on the list for next year.

At least with the new management this year, if he does shine they won't trade him off.

tsip
07-20-2006, 12:59 AM
"I am sure there a couple of folks in any group this size who think Carr was the only one affected by bad coaching but it sure as hell isn't a majority of the MB."

...only 4 posters on this thread mentioned Carr as a problem--you would probally have an easier time listing all the posters on this board who think Carr is a problem? No, this is not a 'certified' sampling, but it is a good start as to the 'majority thought' on this board. Hell, you probally don't think there are any Carr 'intimidators/crucifiers' on this board either!!

Coach C.
07-20-2006, 04:00 AM
I just want to tell everyone that CC Brown is performing quite well at FS. He is faster than Earl and is staying after practice to learn to play the ball better. He will suprise you. Also, castaway Michael Stone is quite fast and Lewis Sanders once he is healthy can play FS also and is pretty good at it since he is more of a corner anyway.

the wonger need food
07-20-2006, 07:49 AM
In other words, we really don't know about him.

If we really don't know about him 5 years into his career, how can it not be a concern? We're talking about a still unproven player at the most important position on the field. QB should be in everyone's top 3.

infantrycak
07-20-2006, 08:41 AM
I'm basing my opinion on the topic of this thread, and the fact that so many posters choose a position-other than QB-as positions that need major improvements. These posters see all kinds of short comings in these other players but not Carr. Why? If people can justify Carr's lack of results by 'things' that were not his fault, and believe his performance will be so much better this year, why don't they hold the same opinions for the other positions? Why do these players need to be upgraded and replaced and not 'cut the same slack' as Carr?

Well I understand better where you are coming from now. I would say all the crud runs to the QB on O. Riley being stuck in and pulling Wand not only hurt Wand, it hurt Carr. Bradford continually being trotted into the game hurt not only Gaffney/Armstrong, it hurt Carr. Not having the TE's run legitimate routes down the seam hurt them, the WR's and Carr. I have said a couple times that there are going to be 1-3 players on each side of the ball that turn out to have a whole lot more talent than people are giving them credit for which will emerge with the new coaching--so basically that seems to be an agreement with your point.

...only 4 posters on this thread mentioned Carr as a problem--you would probally have an easier time listing all the posters on this board who think Carr is a problem? No, this is not a 'certified' sampling, but it is a good start as to the 'majority thought' on this board. Hell, you probally don't think there are any Carr 'intimidators/crucifiers' on this board either!!

IMO a lot of folks haven't chimed in on this thread because that horse has been beaten into glue in numerous other threads. There is a healthy split of folks on each extreme of the Carr issue around here--in other words no majority either way.

Runner
07-20-2006, 08:50 AM
Wait a minute - is there an issue because this hasn't turned into a Carr thread? Do we have a smiley that denotes "running from the room screaming"?

TwinSisters
07-20-2006, 08:58 AM
Wait a minute - is there an issue because this hasn't turned into a Carr thread? Do we have a smiley that denotes "running from the room screaming"?

Ahh yes, good idea... it's about time to start a new Carr thread. Let's see if I can figure something out.

Runner
07-20-2006, 09:07 AM
Ahh yes, good idea... it's about time to start a new Carr thread. Let's see if I can figure something out.

Don't do it. Just say no.

powerfuldragon
07-20-2006, 09:42 AM
Ahh yes, good idea... it's about time to start a new Carr thread. Let's see if I can figure something out.
Don't do it man. Don't give in to temptation. :francis:

NATHANHALE
07-20-2006, 10:34 AM
Wait a minute - is there an issue because this hasn't turned into a Carr thread? Do we have a smiley that denotes "running from the room screaming"?

...so are you saying that Carr's name should not have been included on a thread that denotes 'weakest position?' I love this kind of thinking!!...about 80 posts and Carr's name gets mentioned about 5 times and you're losing it!!! In the future, posters should note in their threads that Carr is not to be brought up in their post...of course, this applies to the Carr:homer: as well.

TwinSisters
07-20-2006, 10:49 AM
BAH! Come on. All the other cool kids are doing it. If we don't do it, we are not going to score with the ladies. Do you want to be a square coming home everyday to a lonely bare empty house, growing old and bitter with ESPN flashing images of Manning and Brady across your eyeballs every night before you nod off to sleep by yourself?

OR...

or do you want to do some Carr thread and have to tell all the hotties to wait until you are done working out the fundamental nuances of a partial side arm delivery in a West Coast offense before you move on to the next one?

eh?

That's what I thought... now let's do some Carr thread.

besides that I think I have an idea! Just need to do some looking first...

Runner
07-20-2006, 10:52 AM
...so are you saying that Carr's name should not have been included on a thread that denotes 'weakest position?' I love this kind of thinking!!...about 80 posts and Carr's name gets mentioned about 5 times and you're losing it!!! In the future, posters should note in their threads that Carr is not to be brought up in their post...of course, this applies to the Carr:homer: as well.

My comment was a joke about how many threads turn into Carr only threads. If you care to look you'd find that I rarely participate in them, not only because I'm not a Carr homer or Carr basher, but also because they usually turn into arguments just like this one.

Mea culpa if I wasn't clear that I was being humorous.

Runner
07-20-2006, 10:55 AM
BAH! Come on. All the other cool kids are doing it. If we don't do it, we are not going to score with the ladies. Do you want to be a square coming home everyday to a lonely bare empty house, growing old and bitter with ESPN flashing images of Manning and Brady across your eyeballs every night before you nod off to sleep by yourself?

OR...

or do you want to do some Carr thread and have to tell all the hotties to wait until you are done working out the fundamental nuances of a partial side arm delivery in a West Coast offense before you move on to the next one?

eh?

That's what I thought... now let's do some Carr thread.

besides that I think I have an idea! Just need to do some looking first...

I'm sorry. I can no longer participate in this persiflage. :backsout:

U4ikrob
07-20-2006, 10:59 AM
How does Quarterback not make anyone's list? Has no one seen the play of Dave Carr the past season and a half???


Seen him play ?? - sure - all of us have that watched the games over the last few years. I also saw alot of mediocrity amongst teh players and staff, no dedication to staying with the scheme, line changes, blocking scheme changes, player changes, coaching changes etc all in the midst of Carr trying to improve and leading the team to a 7-9 finish in 04 which had more than a few games lost due to our defense being unable to hold any kind of lead.

Ive seen several coaches come in and evaluate Carr including our current head coach checking him out throughly and naming him the starter when he had the opportunity to bring in anyone he wanted and saying that a majority of the problem was not Carr.

Following that we also have a vet QB in Sage who by Eric Moulds account said - Hes a big QB with a gun for an arm who lead the Dolphins back from a 21-0 game to a win of 24-21 against the Bills. He also stated that Sage is a good QB and will push David in camp.

I see that as us having 2 average starting QB's who need a good QB/OC coach to develop with [which Carr never truly had in 4 years] to become better players and help develop the leadership needed to ru nthe offense and take the team to some wins. IMO see this as a concern, because they are both unproven in the system, but dont see that area as the Weakest position esp when it comes to depth coming into the season. With our concerns at RB, Secondary and the LB spots where we are dangerously thin when it comes to the depth chart - I see those as Pressing needs that will have to be addressed in the near future.

From Fox - http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/teamReport?categoryId=67071&type=StrategyAndPersonnel

QUARTERBACK: Starter -- David Carr. Backups -- Sage Rosenfels, Quinton Porter.

The Texans spent part of the offseason determining what they would do with the quarterback position. Coach Gary Kubiak decided he wanted to stick with David Carr, and there will be no quarterback controversy heading into camp. Now, it's simply about Carr adjusting to the major changes being brought in during his fifth NFL season. It will be a critical year for Carr, who will be playing in a system that will complement his skills and under a true quarterbacks coach in Kubiak. Carr will throw on the run as much or more than any other quarterback in the league. Denver traditionally rolls out left and right. He has been one of the most durable quarterbacks the past four years, but the Texans have brought in a new backup in Sage Rosenfels. If Carr is allowed to stay on his feet more than in the past, he should have the best year of his career.

NATHANHALE
07-20-2006, 11:01 AM
"or do you want to do some Carr thread and have to tell all the hotties to wait until you are done working out the fundamental nuances of a partial side arm delivery in a West Coast offense before you move on to the next one?"

Your writing and Dom Caper's coaching have a lot in common--you both are talking but not saying anything that makes sense. However, when it comes to getting from point A to point B, you are in a class by your self!! Anyway, who says what we say has to be understood by those who don't realize that what we said in the first place is not what we meant. Wow.I think I've got it now...bring on the hotties-keep the West Coast nuances for your self.

Brandon420tx
07-20-2006, 12:50 PM
Wait a minute - is there an issue because this hasn't turned into a Carr thread? Do we have a smiley that denotes "running from the room screaming"?

Here ya go.

:tiptoe: :backsout:

Brandon420tx
07-20-2006, 12:53 PM
"7. Gary Kubiak, Houston: The former Denver Broncos offensive coordinator faces some lofty expectations after replacing Dom Capers, because Texans owner Bob McNair and the fans are no longer satisfied with merely being in the NFL. Although top overall draft pick Mario Williams has the tall task of making people forget that the team passed on Bush, the focal point of scrutiny for Kubiak's rookie season will be the performance of David Carr."

This is from NFL.com where they rank how well the 10 new HC's will do this season. As you can see, they believe Carr's performance will affect Kubiak's rookie season. I know most fans believe we are set at QB this fall, but that still remains to be seen. IMO, it's ironic that most posters believe that Carr's on field results were the only ones affected by Capers and company, yet-as Kubiak stresses himself--'how Carr goes, the team goes.' Let's hope that accountability or lack there of does not translate into 'Chapter 5' of Carr still looking for his 'promise land.'

http://nfl.com/news/story/9560415


Hey back off of me, I answered the question, the most pressing need we'll have going into next year will be the :fieldgoal You don't like it you can eat my:penguin: !! :shades: :stirpot:

Runner
07-20-2006, 01:00 PM
Here ya go.

:tiptoe: :backsout:

Very nice - was that already out there?

powerfuldragon
07-20-2006, 01:04 PM
Hey back off of me, I answered the question, the most pressing need we'll have going into next year will be the :fieldgoal You don't like it you can eat my:penguin: !! :shades: :stirpot:

You have a penguin?!

Brandon420tx
07-20-2006, 01:16 PM
You have a penguin?!
A hypothetical one. :cool:

Brandon420tx
07-20-2006, 01:17 PM
Very nice - was that already out there?

Click more on the the bottom of the smileys (Yea, the link does take you to a reply box if you copy and paste it lol)

Runner
07-20-2006, 01:26 PM
Where I found them.

Your link sent me to a reply box.

I guess I just never noticed that one in the list before.

johndoe
07-20-2006, 01:33 PM
defensive end

NATHANHALE
07-20-2006, 01:54 PM
"My comment was a joke about how many threads turn into Carr only threads"

Unlike the countless threads that start off on one topic and then become a 'Carr only thread' unrelated to the original thread, this thread begins with "weakest position.' Certainly, Carr plays a position on this team, and I believe this is our 'weakest position.' The problem only arises when Carr:homer: come 'out of the wood work' to defend their 'boy done wrong' and simply do not respect another persons opinion on Carr if it does not agree with theirs. No other player on this team (probally any other board) has more excuses made for their performance on a daily basis than Carr. Let's hope and pray this sad situation ends this year...think of the bandwith we could save on this board if we could package all these excuses we all know by heart into an abbreviation or symbol, instead of listing each one every time...

TexansSeminole
07-20-2006, 02:03 PM
Ha, QB is not one of our weakest positions. That is for sure. Carr has more talent than all of our safeties combined. We don't have one linebacker with the talent that Carr has.

MightyTExan
07-20-2006, 02:13 PM
Wait a minute - is there an issue because this hasn't turned into a Carr thread? Do we have a smiley that denotes "running from the room screaming"?


http://www.godlikeproductions.com/images/smilies/snrmaajt.gif

HOU-TEX
07-20-2006, 02:17 PM
Ahh yes, good idea... it's about time to start a new Carr thread. Let's see if I can figure something out.

My daughter thinks he's hot. Does that count?:pigfly:

Runner
07-20-2006, 02:42 PM
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/images/smilies/snrmaajt.gif

Very, very nice.

swtbound07
07-20-2006, 02:46 PM
Ha, QB is not one of our weakest positions. That is for sure. Carr has more talent than all of our safeties combined. We don't have one linebacker with the talent that Carr has.

List of safeties more talented then david carr
CC Brown
Glenn Earl

List of linebackers more talented then carr
Morlon Greenwood
Wali Rainer
Demeco Ryans
Sam Cowart
Kenneth Pettway

List of people who are better than Carr on our roster
EVERYONE.
He is not the solution, he is the problem.

bkimble
07-20-2006, 02:51 PM
The weakest position on our team is quarterback. :bananasplit:
Kubiak made a terrible decision resigning David Carr. This guy have happy feet and make bad decision. Also, he's affraid, just look in his eyes when there's a linebacker close to him. :bowser:

TexansSeminole
07-20-2006, 02:56 PM
List of safeties more talented then david carr
CC Brown
Glenn Earl

List of linebackers more talented then carr
Morlon Greenwood
Wali Rainer
Demeco Ryans
Sam Cowart
Kenneth Pettway

List of people who are better than Carr on our roster
EVERYONE.
He is not the solution, he is the problem.

That's fine that you beleive that, but like the NFL Live crew you will be changing your tune by the end of the season.

swtbound07
07-20-2006, 02:57 PM
That's fine that you beleive that, but like NFL Live crew you will be changing your tune by the end of the season.

No sir. I've been singing this little ditty for years now, and i've been getting the old chicago cubs refrain...

just WAIT till next year.

infantrycak
07-20-2006, 02:58 PM
The problem only arises when Carr:homer: come 'out of the wood work' to defend their 'boy done wrong' and simply do not respect another persons opinion on Carr if it does not agree with theirs.

Ummm, no. The problem arises when anyone from either extreme feels the need to interject another in a countless number of posts characterizing the majority of the MB, claiming martydom, characterizing anyone who believes differently as a homer or any similar all or nothing description of the topic of Carr.

TexansSeminole
07-20-2006, 03:00 PM
No sir. I've been singing this little ditty for years now, and i've been getting the old chicago cubs refrain...

just WAIT till next year.

Ok.

TwinSisters
07-20-2006, 03:05 PM
My daughter thinks he's hot. Does that count?:pigfly:

Yes it does. I think it has a lot to do with why he is the face of the franchise. How many NFL players have jersey's for sale that come in both regular and PINK!

He's the only one I have ever seen marketed that way. If Dave was as ugly as say Jeff George, he would have gotten the boot this year.

NATHANHALE
07-20-2006, 03:16 PM
Ummm, no. The problem arises when anyone from either extreme feels the need to interject another in a countless number of posts characterizing the majority of the MB, claiming martydom, characterizing anyone who believes differently as a homer or any similar all or nothing description of the topic of Carr.

...a challenge--next time there is one of 'those' Carr threads, count the Carr posts vs the non-Carr posts--think you will find it titled a little one way. Also, see who brings up Carr first.

...back when it was Young vs Bush threads, a similar thing happened. After it was said the Texans were passing on Young, their threads/posts virtually stopped--not so the Bush folks as they raged on weeks after the draft was over...as TC said about the Chronicle, they get 20-1 emails wanting info about Young. My point is that some folks don't feel the need to to 'rant' their opinions while others do...

U4ikrob
07-20-2006, 03:18 PM
List of safeties more talented then david carr
CC Brown
Glenn Earl

List of linebackers more talented then carr
Morlon Greenwood
Wali Rainer
Demeco Ryans
Sam Cowart
Kenneth Pettway

List of people who are better than Carr on our roster
EVERYONE.
He is not the solution, he is the problem.


Wow players that are injured and havent even played a down for the NFL or this team yet are some how more talented?? :boggle:

While I dont consider myself a Carr :homer: I would say there is more to recognize on the positive and negative sides to Carr's performance with this team so far. I'll just go on record as saying I disagree with yoru above PoV and leave it at that on your post.

For me - the Bottom line is - We can debate things till the end - But the results will come out on Carr in one form or another after this year. There are no more excuses for anyone to make including David. I for one think Carr will stand up to the scrutiny and produce this year like the player he should be had he been given a modest chance to succeed.

The question that comes to my mind after all of these many Carr comparison threads is

What will it take for folks to say he did allright? or He's worth being the QB of this team again? Will 6 wins, 8 wins, 10 wins do it or will he have to lead us to the playoffs with a completely new cast in order to get any respect from fans who think he was not worth the extension?

infantrycak
07-20-2006, 03:19 PM
...a challenge--next time there is one of 'those' Carr threads, count the Carr posts vs the non-Carr posts--think you will find it titled a little one way. Also, see who brings up Carr first.

OK--I'll try reading the MB a little more closely than I usually do. JMO but the MB is about evenly split with whiners on both sides.

HOU-TEX
07-20-2006, 03:20 PM
Yes it does. I think it has a lot to do with why he is the face of the franchise. How many NFL players have jersey's for sale that come in both regular and PINK!

He's the only one I have ever seen marketed that way. If Dave was as ugly as say Jeff George, he would have gotten the boot this year.

Hmmm, so looks alone can get you somewhere. Well....I'm screwed!

I'm not sure there's been an uglier QB than Jim Plunkett, has there? (Can ya tell I'm trying to veer away from the Texan QB talk):hides:

TwinSisters
07-20-2006, 03:52 PM
Hmmm, so looks alone can get you somewhere. Well....I'm screwed!

I'm not sure there's been an uglier QB than Jim Plunkett, has there? (Can ya tell I'm trying to veer away from the Texan QB talk):hides:

That's alright, I will lead you right back. There ain't nothing wrong with talking about the Texans' QB.

I will say that Plunkett was one ugly boy too. But I will also add that looks alone don't drive your success forever in the NFL as a QB.

However it helps.

Example:

Joe Namath. After he got hurt there was no reason he should have been starting for the later part of his career. Looks have a little bit to do with that.

Dan Pastorini. Man, he was a miserable QB for his first 4 seasons until Gillman came along. If he was as ugly as Plunkett, they would have booted him.

Both Plunkett and Pastorini came into the league at about the same time. Both were miserable and got hurt. Both started as rookies.

Ugly boy Plunkett was shipped off as a failure and a bust after his 4th year.
Ladies' Man Pastorini just needed a better coach, better offensive line, and a new system.

Sound familiar?

swtbound07
07-20-2006, 04:04 PM
Wow players that are injured and havent even played a down for the NFL or this team yet are some how more talented?? :boggle:

While I dont consider myself a Carr :homer: I would say there is more to recognize on the positive and negative sides to Carr's performance with this team so far. I'll just go on record as saying I disagree with yoru above PoV and leave it at that on your post.

For me - the Bottom line is - We can debate things till the end - But the results will come out on Carr in one form or another after this year. There are no more excuses for anyone to make including David. I for one think Carr will stand up to the scrutiny and produce this year like the player he should be had he been given a modest chance to succeed.

The question that comes to my mind after all of these many Carr comparison threads is

What will it take for folks to say he did allright? or He's worth being the QB of this team again? Will 6 wins, 8 wins, 10 wins do it or will he have to lead us to the playoffs with a completely new cast in order to get any respect from fans who think he was not worth the extension?

Absolutely nothing. To me the jury is already rendered its verdict. I'd honestly rather have kyle boller. He could go 3,000 yards and 30 tds and it wouldn't make a difference. He didn't deserve a year 5, and certainly is getting paid more than performance.

Vambo, the Marble Eye
07-20-2006, 04:08 PM
Nice discussion topic. I'd say...hmmm. Probably safety, and I doubt we'd use a first round pick to address it. We could get a decent one in later rounds, if we didn't go the free agent route for a quick fix.

Is there something "statistical" that even slightly backs up this thinking that the SS or FS position is a big problem? (I mean, we lead the league in +45 yd completions against our defense or something.)

TexansSeminole
07-20-2006, 04:09 PM
Absolutely nothing. To me the jury is already rendered its verdict. I'd honestly rather have kyle boller. He could go 3,000 yards and 30 tds and it wouldn't make a difference. He didn't deserve a year 5, and certainly is getting paid more than performance.

Every single player in the NFL is getting paid more than there performance. What you dont understand is that its a business.

ledzeppelin229
07-20-2006, 04:09 PM
Absolutely nothing. To me the jury is already rendered its verdict. I'd honestly rather have kyle boller. He could go 3,000 yards and 30 tds and it wouldn't make a difference. He didn't deserve a year 5, and certainly is getting paid more than performance.

I think considering his old coaches, if he can do 3,000 yards and 30 TDs and the team does well, he has redeemed himself.

swtbound07
07-20-2006, 04:11 PM
Every single player in the NFL is getting paid more than there performance. What you dont understand is that its a business.

Really? I missed that crucial concept? What you don't understand is that if it was a business decision they would have cut him a long time ago. Our owner seems to like carr, but nothing he has done on the field should have given them any reason to offer him that exception. Within the realms of NFL salary, he is overpaid....im not talking base level economics.

swtbound07
07-20-2006, 04:12 PM
I think considering his old coaches, if he can do 3,000 yards and 30 TDs and the team does well, he has redeemed himself.

He didn't deserve the chance....so anything he does with it is to me tainted.

ledzeppelin229
07-20-2006, 04:16 PM
He didn't deserve the chance....so anything he does with it is to me tainted.

If someone offered you an extension for a few million would you take the high road and turn it down? Blame the organization. A lot of guys don't deserve the chance they're given...but it's useless to not give them some standard of redemption.

swtbound07
07-20-2006, 04:17 PM
If someone offered you an extension for a few million would you take the high road and turn it down? Blame the organization. A lot of guys don't deserve the chance they're given...but it's useless to not give them some standard of redemption.

I do blame the organization for the resign...i don't blame Carr for taking it. Im just saying, Im done with Carr as the QB of the Texans, and don't really think he can change 4 years of sub-mediocrity with one good season. I still couldn't trust him after that...it would take years....years that this franchise just doesn't have.

bkimble
07-20-2006, 04:26 PM
amen brother! This whole Carr episode is very strange to me. This guy hasn't produced anything in 4 years and is rewarded with a new long term contract. WOW! And that's only the begin, and than some of the Texan' MB journalist try to workup justification for this awful decision. Amazing!
:fireball:

HOU-TEX
07-20-2006, 04:38 PM
I do blame the organization for the resign...i don't blame Carr for taking it. Im just saying, Im done with Carr as the QB of the Texans, and don't really think he can change 4 years of sub-mediocrity with one good season. I still couldn't trust him after that...it would take years....years that this franchise just doesn't have.

Well obviously the whole Texans staff trusts him. Whether you trust him or not is irrelivant. On the other hand you are intitled an opinion if that's what it is.:confused:

ledzeppelin229
07-20-2006, 04:41 PM
I do blame the organization for the resign...i don't blame Carr for taking it. Im just saying, Im done with Carr as the QB of the Texans, and don't really think he can change 4 years of sub-mediocrity with one good season. I still couldn't trust him after that...it would take years....years that this franchise just doesn't have.

What if he went to the Pro Bowl a few times and won the SB for us? All I'm saying is there must be some level where he redeems himself.

swtbound07
07-20-2006, 04:41 PM
Well obviously the whole Texans staff trusts him. Whether you trust him or not is irrelivant. On the other hand you are intitled an opinion if that's what it is.:confused:

The last staff that trusted him got fired en-masse recently. Yep..its just my opinion...but very relevant to a message board discussion where all we have is opinions.

U4ikrob
07-20-2006, 04:43 PM
That's alright, I will lead you right back. There ain't nothing wrong with talking about the Texans' QB....

Both Plunkett and Pastorini came into the league at about the same time. Both were miserable and got hurt. Both started as rookies.

Ugly boy Plunkett was shipped off as a failure and a bust after his 4th year.
Ladies' Man Pastorini just needed a better coach, better offensive line, and a new system.

Sound familiar?

Sounds familiar in some parts to DC and the Texans - but you cant stop @ 4 years. If memory serves that Oilers team was really REALLY bad - 4 bad seasons & 3 diff coaches including two 1-13 seasons. Not trying to "Church up" Dan's performance, but he didnt have much to work with on the team at all. He split time alot at QB too including his first year and then later because of injuries. The Oilers kept changing things all the time. He basically had one good receiver in Joiner, then Burroughs and later Johnson. They had an avg defense with a few standouts - Alot of RB by committee approach all while changing schemes and coaching staffs proved not very good for the Dan ' the man'

That stuff sounds real familiar...

But Dan also managed to be in the top 10 in pass attempts and completions twice during those first 5 years and in his 5th year went to the Pro-bowl [his first year with Bum coaching] a few years of mediocre playing until 78 when he took the team to a 10-6 record and the playoffs when they switched to 16 games with Earl going all the way to the Division championship game before losing to Pitt.

swtbound07
07-20-2006, 04:43 PM
What if he went to the Pro Bowl a few times and won the SB for us? All I'm saying is there must be some level where he redeems himself.

Im saying there is nothing he can do in ONE year to redeem the four bad ones...his career as a whole might vindicate it, but a great year this year would only mean he performs well 20 percent of the time.

TexansSeminole
07-20-2006, 04:45 PM
I'm sayin, you just ruined a perfectly good thread, with your bad arguments, and just bad attitude about your team.

Runner
07-20-2006, 04:46 PM
Is there something "statistical" that even slightly backs up this thinking that the SS or FS position is a big problem? (I mean, we lead the league in +45 yd completions against our defense or something.)

No. This was just an off the cuff gut feeling given some of the moves we've made. It isn't something I feel strongly about and I could easily be swayed by logical argument. Real games will be the final proof though.

swtbound07
07-20-2006, 04:47 PM
I'm sayin, you just ruined a perfectly good thread, with your bad arguments, and just bad attitude about your team.

I answered the initial question the thread posed, then every subsequent response by me was directly related to a question/comment asked of me or directed to me. Im not flooding the board with Carr talk, but wherever I feel my opinion is applicable, I will state it. Im sorry if I spoiled your thread viewing experience, or your general state of optimism about your team. I will try not to let it happen again...but remember, for a discussion to happen TWO people (at least) have to participate..Im not out here debating myself.

TexansSeminole
07-20-2006, 04:48 PM
I answered the initial question the thread posed, then every subsequent response by me was directly related to a question/comment asked of me or directed to me. Im not flooding the board with Carr talk, but wherever I feel my opinion is applicable, I will state it. Im sorry if I spoiled your thread viewing experience, or your general state of optimism about your team. I will try not to let it happen again...but remember, for a discussion to happen TWO people (at least) have to participate..Im not out here debating myself.

Ok.

HOU-TEX
07-20-2006, 04:48 PM
The last staff that trusted him got fired en-masse recently. Yep..its just my opinion...but very relevant to a message board discussion where all we have is opinions.

So you're blaming the firing of the old staff on DC? Did you go to or watch any games last year? Did you happen to notice what the offense looked like? The coaches got fired due to lack of production in every aspect of the team. Are you saying we should've fired DC instead of the staff?

swtbound07
07-20-2006, 04:50 PM
So you're blaming the firing of the old staff on DC? Did you go to or watch any games last year? Did you happen to notice what the offense looked like? The coaches got fired due to lack of production in every aspect of the team. Are you saying we should've fired DC instead of the staff?

In short, both of them should be gone. In answer to your question I've watched every game this franchise has ever played multiple times. The Offense looked the way it did because of Carr. You don't have to agree, but thats my assessment. I fear that Carr might actually end up getting Kubiak fired down the line as well...he is just that bad.

HOU-TEX
07-20-2006, 04:55 PM
In short, both of them should be gone. In answer to your question I've watched every game this franchise has ever played multiple times. The Offense looked the way it did because of Carr. You don't have to agree, but thats my assessment. I fear that Carr might actually end up getting Kubiak fired down the line as well...he is just that bad.

This statement is absolutly asinine. Good luck

swtbound07
07-20-2006, 05:00 PM
This statement is absolutly asinine. Good luck

as·i·nine ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-nn)
adj.
Utterly stupid or silly: asinine behavior.
Of, relating to, or resembling an ass.


Kindly explain to me how blaming the performance of an offense on its quarterback (you know, the guy who touches the ball every play and is supposed to be the leader) is utterly stupid, or resembles an ass. You might disagree with me, doesn't make it asinine. I await your retraction and apology.

TexanFan881
07-20-2006, 05:02 PM
List of safeties more talented then david carr
CC Brown
Glenn Earl

List of linebackers more talented then carr
Morlon Greenwood
Wali Rainer
Demeco Ryans
Sam Cowart
Kenneth Pettway

List of people who are better than Carr on our roster
EVERYONE.
He is not the solution, he is the problem.

List of people who obviously have something against Carr
You :francis:

Carr has more talent in one finger than some of the players on our team have as a whole.

HOU-TEX
07-20-2006, 05:03 PM
as·i·nine ( P ) Pronunciation Key (s-nn)
adj.
Utterly stupid or silly: asinine behavior.
Of, relating to, or resembling an ass.


Kindly explain to me how blaming the performance of an offense on its quarterback (you know, the guy who touches the ball every play and is supposed to be the leader) is utterly stupid, or resembles an ass. You might disagree with me, doesn't make it asinine. I await your retraction and apology.

No apology needed. It's simply my opinion that it was an asinine statement. Good luck oh young Danielson.

infantrycak
07-20-2006, 05:04 PM
Kindly explain to me how blaming the performance of an offense on its quarterback (you know, the guy who touches the ball every play and is supposed to be the leader) is utterly stupid, or resembles an ass. You might disagree with me, doesn't make it asinine. I await your retraction and apology.

I'd say acting like the performance of the O is always fully the responsibility of the QB is pretty silly. Football is the ultimate team sport and giving too much credit or too much blame to the QB is ignoring (willfully in this case to make one of the extreme arguments you so like to make) the realities of the game just as much or moreso than ignoring the faults of the QB among the causes for poor O performance.

swtbound07
07-20-2006, 05:09 PM
I'd say acting like the performance of the O is always fully the responsibility of the QB is pretty silly. Football is the ultimate team sport and giving too much credit or too much blame to the QB is ignoring (willfully in this case to make one of the extreme arguments you so like to make) the realities of the game just as much or moreso than ignoring the faults of the QB among the causes for poor O performance.

Me? Extreme? Never.......Im not the type to go around :stirpot: now am I cak?

the wonger need food
07-20-2006, 05:11 PM
I'd say acting like the performance of the O is always fully the responsibility of the QB is pretty silly.

But did Carr show any signs of being an NFL QB last season? Even Archie Manning had his moments where he willed his team to wins. Carr has been a deer in headlights for 25+ games now.

Byshop
07-20-2006, 05:12 PM
Linebackers and Safeties

both are pretty weak

oline got some good depth this year

I'm in agreement here...Linbackers and Safeties. One thing I was looking at in Fantasy research was Kris Browns lack of concistancy , as evidenced in a cpl of the losses last year. IMHO, LB's and DB's , OT's and maybe a new kicker are prolly the most needed positions as of yet. I would think looking for a Troy Polamolu type or another DRob would be the Texans #1 pick next draft. :shades:

HOU-TEX
07-20-2006, 05:14 PM
But did Carr show any signs of being an NFL QB last season? Even Archie Manning had his moments where he willed his team to wins. Carr has been a deer in headlights for 25+ games now.

He did in 04

I would be too if I had 300+ pounders chasing me around for a whole game.

Runner
07-20-2006, 05:17 PM
I would think looking for a Troy Polamolu type

If you know where one of those is at, let the Texans know immediately. :)

Insideop
07-20-2006, 05:32 PM
In short, both of them should be gone. In answer to your question I've watched every game this franchise has ever played multiple times. The Offense looked the way it did because of Carr. You don't have to agree, but thats my assessment. I fear that Carr might actually end up getting Kubiak fired down the line as well...he is just that bad.


I don't agree with your assessment and obviously Kubiak doesn't either. He must have seen enough in Carr to believe he has what it takes to be a good NFL quarterback and tell McNair to extend his contract. If he didn't believe this, then I think we would be seeing VY, Leinert, or Cutler in a Texans uniform instead of Mario! JMHO!

infantrycak
07-20-2006, 05:43 PM
But did Carr show any signs of being an NFL QB last season? Even Archie Manning had his moments where he willed his team to wins. Carr has been a deer in headlights for 25+ games now.

I'd say so--few and far between but within the scheme yes. I'd say he showed more in prior seasons (yes with flaws as well). I have stated previously that IMO Capers put a lock on the offense after the 2004 game at Indy. Look at that game and the three prior and the four games after--the contrast is stark: 250.5 ypg vs. 172.25 ypg, 66% passes to WR's other than AJ (so much for not being able to find a 2nd option) vs. 67% of passes to AJ. The 1st 4 games were against tougher passing D's than the 2nd set were. None of that means in any way Carr doesn't need a lot of improvement--only that Capers' molesting the O was a joke, Pendry ever having touched an OL was a joke--Carr was part of the problem not all of the problem. I am not predicting great things for Carr, nor for him to fail (I see very little chance of his play not being greatly improved this year, but there was a long way to go), but IMO we still have little to no idea what he can be with a surrounding cast which can even charitably be called credible--that's sad IMO and falls squarely on Capers/Casserly.

the wonger need food
07-20-2006, 05:50 PM
Ibut IMO we still have little to no idea what he can be with a surrounding cast

Unless we know without a doubt that there is a solid player in the position, it's a weakness.

infantrycak
07-20-2006, 05:59 PM
Unless we know without a doubt that there is a solid player in the position, it's a weakness.

That's fine (interesting choice on cutting off the sentence for the quote). I certainly haven't ever identified Carr as a strength. I would phrase it along with many other players as a potential weakness until we see how the team comes together. Listing things for upgrade in the next draft before TC even starts or the season is starts strikes me as assuming failure--I'd rather let the season play out, I already paid for the tickets.

NATHANHALE
07-20-2006, 06:02 PM
I don't agree with your assessment and obviously Kubiak doesn't either. He must have seen enough in Carr to believe he has what it takes to be a good NFL quarterback and tell McNair to extend his contract. If he didn't believe this, then I think we would be seeing VY, Leinert, or Cutler in a Texans uniform instead of Mario! JMHO!

IMO, keeping Carr was in no way Kubiak's decision to make, though his hiring dictated his agreement to do so. Kubiak has all the tools to 'try' and turn Carr around and he will make every effort to do so. Saying that, though, I'm sure Kubiak doesn't think he'll go if Carr goes-probally given another 'shot' with a different QB should Carr fail--

It's interesting to note that Kubiak has already made several subtle comments about Carr. In one, he states that Carr is the most improved player on the team BUTTTTTTTT still has a long way to go! He's mentioned several of Carr's habits that 'must' change like-focusing on one receiver, slow getting to the line of scrimmage, not making quick decisions, keeping the ball too long, contributing to sacks, etc. The most 'telling' comment,though, was when he said--how Carr goes, the team goes. So far,Carr has had the 'luxury' of learning and executing everything in slow motion but that will soon change when TC/PS starts. IMO, it won't take Kubiak long to see if Carr 'is the man.'

Even considering 'all' the obstacles Carr has faced, I can not visualize him 'suddenly' doing the things (mentioned above) he has not done before. And, finally--in light that Carr was a pupil of 'QB Guru' Ted Tedford-I was a little shocked that Kubiak had to tell Carr 'tricks' to use to not focus on one receiver---after 4 yrs as a pro!!!!!!!!!

the wonger need food
07-20-2006, 06:06 PM
IMO, keeping Carr was in no way Kubiak's decision to make, though his hiring dictated his agreement to do so.

This statement could not be more true. To cut Carr loose after last season (along with firing Capers and Casserly) would be to admit complete and total failure as a franchise.

chuckm
07-20-2006, 06:08 PM
This statement could not be more true. To cut Carr loose after last season (along with firing Capers and Casserly) would be to admit complete and total failure as a franchise.


This opinion is just that ...... I have one too and it's no more or less correct at this point .....

TwinSisters
07-20-2006, 06:20 PM
Sounds familiar in some parts to DC and the Texans - but you cant stop @ 4 years. If memory serves that Oilers team was really REALLY bad - 4 bad seasons & 3 diff coaches including two 1-13 seasons. Not trying to "Church up" Dan's performance, but he didnt have much to work with on the team at all. He split time alot at QB too including his first year and then later because of injuries. The Oilers kept changing things all the time. He basically had one good receiver in Joiner, then Burroughs and later Johnson. They had an avg defense with a few standouts - Alot of RB by committee approach all while changing schemes and coaching staffs proved not very good for the Dan ' the man'

That stuff sounds real familiar...

But Dan also managed to be in the top 10 in pass attempts and completions twice during those first 5 years and in his 5th year went to the Pro-bowl [his first year with Bum coaching] a few years of mediocre playing until 78 when he took the team to a 10-6 record and the playoffs when they switched to 16 games with Earl going all the way to the Division championship game before losing to Pitt.


No, Dan was a better QB then Carr in his first four despite having back to back 1-13 seasons. Or yes, Dan developed faster even with the bad coaching and offensive line ( depending on what you are saying ).

I have to go back and look at the charts to see if the staff was changing so much.

alright:
Dan still had the inferior coaching staff when he made his first mark in his 3rd season ( something that Carr has not done ). When Gillman showed up, the Oilers started to turn around. Yes, the Bum was on the staff at this time also. Gillman walked off after the 74 season because he wouldn't coach for Adams. That 75' season and that defense that Bum put together was what vaulted them into being a good team. Earl came later and made them into a great team.

But the point of bringing up Dan and Jim Plunkett was to look at whether or not being good looking had any bearing on whether or not you played or didn't play.

If you look at Jim Plunkett his stats were better then Dan Pastorini and his team was still losing... but not as bad as the Oilers. Plunkett gets hurt and he is traded, while Dan keeps his starting job.

He rides the pine in Oakland behind Stabler until 1980. He doesn't get another shot to start until Pastorini shows up at Oakland and breaks his leg. ( or whatever it was... I think Pastorini broke his leg. Some type of season ending injury whatever it was)

#1 over all Heisman winner that doesn't get the job over Pastorini? Gets traded and passed around? I don't know... I think being ugly has something to do with it. Maybe in other positions it doesn't matter that much, but at QB that seems to be a factor.

How many ugly QBs can you name? Not many. In any other position, I can easily think of about 50 ugly players ( minus kickers/punters, simply because I don't know if I could name 50 kickers and punters though ) Quarterbacks... well that's different. Nobody likes to have an ugly quarterback leading the team.

TexansSeminole
07-20-2006, 06:24 PM
How about the O line guys...suppose one of the two guys we drafted this year turns out to be a starter and the other a back up...I think we still need a guard or two to start learning the system. I think for now Flanagan will do his job at Center unless he gets injured. But I still think the O-line, for now, is a weakness on the team. Depending on what happens this season, I see us going to another O lineman next year before the 4th round.

the wonger need food
07-20-2006, 07:22 PM
He did in 04

I would be too if I had 300+ pounders chasing me around for a whole game.

He did in the first half of '04. His performance in the second half of '04 was abysmal.

Coach C.
07-20-2006, 07:23 PM
Wonger, personally it does not matter if you ever trust in D. Carr. As long as he can perform and start winning games we are fine.

the wonger need food
07-20-2006, 07:26 PM
Wonger, personally it does not matter if you ever trust in D. Carr. As long as he can perform and start winning games we are fine.

That's a huge if at this point in time.

Coach C.
07-20-2006, 07:31 PM
If he performs then we are fine, if he does not then we made a mistake and have to go find another signal caller, but you look at his talent and the decisions he has made while in an unfriendly system and as you(someone I think knows football) can see that Carr is a quality football player. He is recognized around the league as a good player, who has never been given a chance. I like to think that if he was such a good player then he makes his own chances, but when you are a rookie and you learn the wrong way of doing things, I guess that has to be set right. Here's to watching him very closely in TC and Preseason.

the wonger need food
07-20-2006, 07:35 PM
If he performs then we are fine, if he does not then we made a mistake and have to go find another signal caller, but you look at his talent and the decisions he has made while in an unfriendly system and as you(someone I think knows football) can see that Carr is a quality football player. He is recognized around the league as a good player, who has never been given a chance. I like to think that if he was such a good player then he makes his own chances, but when you are a rookie and you learn the wrong way of doing things, I guess that has to be set right. Here's to watching him very closely in TC and Preseason.

I hope you're right... I really do. But all that I have to go on is his last 25 or so games where he has looked completely incompetent most of the time. As a Texans fans (and to a lesser degree a card collector that has/had about 2K invested in the guy) I hope that he succeeds.

Insideop
07-20-2006, 11:25 PM
IMO, keeping Carr was in no way Kubiak's decision to make, though his hiring dictated his agreement to do so.

OK, let's look at it from your angle. If McNair told Kubiak that if he wanted the job with the Texans he would have to keep Carr and make the best of it, (and I don't believe this is what happened) that Kubiak would take the job even if he believed Carr was terrible and could never make it in the NFL. Sorry, I don't believe this for a minute, even if Kubes wanted to get back to Texas!

Now, I do believe McNair/Casserly, during interviews possibly, could have asked Kubiak if he thought he could salvage Carr's career. I don't believe his answer (whether yes or no) would have been the deciding factor in his hiring. I think McNair wanted to hire someone he thought would put a consistent winner on the field, regardless of whether Carr was the QB or not! JMO!

Insideop
07-20-2006, 11:42 PM
This statement could not be more true. To cut Carr loose after last season (along with firing Capers and Casserly) would be to admit complete and total failure as a franchise.


Wonger, Casserly was not fired, I believe he "resigned to pursue other opportunities." And, JMHO, when your team has the worst record in the NFL and you fire your head coach, you're already admitting total failure! :sos:

TwinSisters
07-20-2006, 11:54 PM
I don't believe his answer (whether yes or no) would have been the deciding factor in his hiring. I think McNair wanted to hire someone he thought would put a consistent winner on the field, regardless of whether Carr was the QB or not! JMO!

No. There is a quote floating around here somewhere directly from Bob McNair. He states something to the effect of 'the deciding factor in hiring Kubiak was the fact that he thought he was best coach to help David Carr'.

I mean it is really close to that.

NATHANHALE
07-21-2006, 03:06 AM
Wonger, Casserly was not fired, I believe he "resigned to pursue other opportunities." And, JMHO, when your team has the worst record in the NFL and you fire your head coach, you're already admitting total failure! :sos:

Casserly took the 'graceful' way out that insured there was no blemish (being fired) on his immediate resume as he pursued 'other' interests---kinda like that lady from the Barbara Walters show that 'everyone' agreed would announce on air she was leaving the show to pursue other interests (network would back her up) but was not suppose to tell 'everyone' the network had not renewed her contract. Call it what you want but-just like the network wanted the lady gone-the Texans wanted Casserly gone, with 'glowing' recommendations and all.

AggieTexanFan
07-21-2006, 06:02 AM
1. Franchise MLB-to me, has the most ? marks of all of the defensive spots ths year
2. #2 CB-we all know why
3. RB-someone more durable
4. OL-same as #2
5. FS-a great coverage safety, remember the days of Stevens?
6. SS-just to have some more depth or a hard hitter on special teams
7. WR-explosive slot receiver if Mathis does not fill that role

That would be a nice draft for me next year

-Clay

the wonger need food
07-21-2006, 07:48 AM
Wonger, Casserly was not fired, I believe he "resigned to pursue other opportunities."

In reality, he was fired.

Kubiak had no choice but to work with Carr. If Kubiak would have wanted Carr gone, Kubiak would not have the job. Carr is McNair's favorite horse in the stable and isn't going anywhere no matter how many races he loses.

TwinSisters
07-21-2006, 08:21 AM
In reality, he was fired.

Kubiak had no choice but to work with Carr. If Kubiak would have wanted Carr gone, Kubiak would not have the job. Carr is McNair's favorite horse in the stable and isn't going anywhere no matter how many races he loses.

I agree, but it is not going to be that way after this season. If Carr sputters again, I am going to take things into my own hands. I am going to take action! I am going to go downtown and set myself on fire!

It's going to be like Saigon October 5th, 1963.

Something has got to be done.

( actually... maybe setting myself on fire would not be such a good idea... I am going to set Torro on fire instead )

HOU-TEX
07-21-2006, 10:16 AM
I hope you're right... I really do. But all that I have to go on is his last 25 or so games where he has looked completely incompetent most of the time. As a Texans fans (and to a lesser degree a card collector that has/had about 2K invested in the guy) I hope that he succeeds.

The team as a whole has looked incompetent, not just Carr. I think he's got the talent to be a good QB for us. I just hope the last 4 years haven't ruined him. I would've stuck with Carr over drafting another rookie too.:twocents:

AggieTexanFan
07-21-2006, 10:19 AM
I agree, as much as a like Carr, if he struggles as he did last year, he has to go.

But if there is any sign of improvement, I think he will be safe.

But I believe Carr's TD to INT ratio had gotten better each year correct? Even during last years horrible season, so that says something, right?

HOU-TEX
07-21-2006, 10:25 AM
I agree, as much as a like Carr, if he struggles as he did last year, he has to go.

But if there is any sign of improvement, I think he will be safe.

But I believe Carr's TD to INT ratio had gotten better each year correct? Even during last years horrible season, so that says something, right?

Most of last years passes were 3 yard hitches though.:crying: This year should be a little more down field I would think.:redtowel:

Brandon420tx
07-21-2006, 11:01 AM
Back on topic, we obviously need a kicker in the first round next year:shoot: :homer: :stirpot:

srstex
07-21-2006, 11:21 AM
A kicker in the first Round, are you nuts ? Janachowski didn't live up to hype, and Elam-Vinatari and others are better. Sorry got a little excited there. Brown did what he was told to last year, he will be better than 95% this year.

Runner
07-21-2006, 11:22 AM
Back on topic, we obviously need a kicker in the first round next year

Maybe - wasn't Brown a pretty accurate kicker in 2004? He might make a solid comeback too, but who knows.

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-21-2006, 11:23 AM
After that kick last year against us to tie the game, yes, you do need a new kicker

santo
07-21-2006, 11:24 AM
Back on topic, we obviously need a kicker in the first round next year:shoot: :homer: :stirpot:


LOL!!


that was funny...:)

Vinny
07-21-2006, 11:32 AM
Linebackers are our biggest problem as a position group, hands down. Wong is not a top LB nor is he a DL, so he is a true tweener with no real position. Cowart has no lateral movement and will have to come off the field in any passing situation. Greenwood is a wallflower. We need someone to prove he is a starting caliber NFL FS also. Brown is still a better SS than FS until he proves otherwise. I won't consider LT a weak position since we spent a first day pick here last draft. Carr is talented as heck, but he has rotten game instincts so he has a lot to prove this year as well.

Texans_Chick
07-21-2006, 11:34 AM
Linebackers are our biggest problem as a position group, hands down. Wong is not a top LB nor is he a DL, so he is a true tweener with no real position. Cowart has no lateral movement and will have to come off the field in any passing situation. Greenwood is a wallflower. We need someone to prove he is a starting caliber NFL FS also. Brown is still a better SS than FS until he proves otherwise. I won't consider LT a weak position since we spent a first day pick here last draft. Carr is talented as heck, but he has rotten game instincts so he has a lot to prove this year as well.

Demeco blow up Quarterback. :texflag:

Runner
07-21-2006, 11:34 AM
Linebackers are our biggest problem as a position group, hands down. Wong is not a top LB nor is he a DL, so he is a true tweener with no real position. Cowart has no lateral movement and will have to come off the field in any passing situation. Greenwood is a wallflower. We need someone to prove he is a starting caliber NFL FS also.

It's king of sad about the linebackers, since we have so many.

powerfuldragon
07-21-2006, 11:36 AM
Demeco blow up Quarterback. :texflag:


That flag looks really wierd on style 2.

ps. i agree with what vinny said regarding david carr.

Brandon420tx
07-21-2006, 11:48 AM
Maybe - wasn't Brown a pretty accurate kicker in 2004? He might make a solid comeback too, but who knows.

It was a joke to kill the C*** thread, and get it back rolling on topic. We'll see how KBrown does this year, if I'm not satisfied, I'm calling for his head in the third round of the draft and each pick afterwards. :francis:

I posted earlier on what I think this teams needs in next years first round (LB) and second round (DB - fast hard hitting style) or OL (Preferrably a guard).

Insideop
07-21-2006, 11:53 AM
In reality, he was fired.

Kubiak had no choice but to work with Carr. If Kubiak would have wanted Carr gone, Kubiak would not have the job. Carr is McNair's favorite horse in the stable and isn't going anywhere no matter how many races he loses.


In reality, he was NOT fired! He resigned. And, correct me if I'm wrong, which I'm sure you will, I believe he still had another year on his contract. Also, wasn't he more or less vindicated when Dan Reeves made his assessment to McNair and said the talent wasn't the problem, it was the coaching. Thus the firing of Capers!

Look, we can go around and around with this, but the bottom line is Casserly resigned. He is gone and that's what most everyone wanted! Myself included.

Now to your other statement. Why in the world do think "Kubiak had no choice?" Did someone hold a gun to his head and make him take the job? I still believe he had a choice even if McNair said you only get the job if you take Carr (and I don't believe McNair said that). It's not like he was jobless in Denver.

Anyway, I can't remember how this whole debate got started, but I still believe Kubiak WANTED to come here and he saw enough in Carr to want to keep him and make him a better NFL quarterback. And, if Kubiak had not seen enough in Carr, he either would not have taken the job if Carr was tied to the deal as you believe, or he would have told McNair that Carr didn't have what it takes and McNair wouldn't have extended Carr's contract. That's my :twocents:

Runner
07-21-2006, 11:57 AM
It was a joke to kill the C*** thread, and get it back rolling on topic. We'll see how KBrown does this year, if I'm not satisfied, I'm calling for his head in the third round of the draft and each pick afterwards. :francis:

I posted earlier on what I think this teams needs in next years first round (LB) and second round (DB - fast hard hitting style) or OL (Preferrably a guard).

Oh. I've kind of gotten lost wading through things. I have a general idea of what Andy Dufresne felt like going through that pipe though.

Brandon420tx
07-21-2006, 11:58 AM
No No No NOOO, C*** thread dead, C*** thread dead, C*** thread dead. Seriously take it to another thread guys, there is a create tool you know, so you can actually make a thread where this type of discussion would actually belong instead of trudging down this really lovable thread we have here.

TexansSeminole
07-21-2006, 12:10 PM
Linebackers are our biggest problem as a position group, hands down. Wong is not a top LB nor is he a DL, so he is a true tweener with no real position. Cowart has no lateral movement and will have to come off the field in any passing situation. Greenwood is a wallflower. We need someone to prove he is a starting caliber NFL FS also. Brown is still a better SS than FS until he proves otherwise. I won't consider LT a weak position since we spent a first day pick here last draft. Carr is talented as heck, but he has rotten game instincts so he has a lot to prove this year as well.

Definantely I see Linebacker as a huge weakness on our team. I am hoping DeMeco can become a solid starter this year, and put some energy into these guys. Wong hasn't played with much energy in awhile and Greenwood reminds me of that guy in high school who would hop on for the ride when the running back came straight at them.

We'll see what type of linebackers this scheme calls for and address it in next years draft.

As far as LT, I dont consider it a weakness, but something needs to be proven this year.

threetoedpete
07-21-2006, 09:13 PM
....... Carr is talented as heck, but he has rotten game instincts so he has a lot to prove this year as well.
Carr is done if he gets pummeled again. Might be another Plunket, sit for a few years and make a comeback. I believe you're right that we won't be drafting an OLT. But if we don't and they ARE out there when we pick it will be a mistake. OLT is the conrerstone of the offensive line. So far we ain't got 1. And I don't care what system you use, who the QB is..., without one you're going to struggle in the passing game. And then you'll become what the Texan's have always been, one demmensional. Spencer is tallented enough to play in the nfl. Whether he can hold a corner or not...we're fixing to find out. You'll know by the bye Vinny. Hope it works. It don't, it's five year plan II.

Sorry to float this one back to the top all. Couldn't let the DC crowd kill the good off season thread. I sat there in the earlier post should I , could I ...Post QB as a need a go unscathed....nope !:crutch:

TwinSisters
07-21-2006, 11:00 PM
Carr is done if he gets pummeled again. Might be another Plunket, sit for a few years and make a comeback.

Carr is not a Plunkett. Plunkett came out roaring as a starting rookie.
Carr hasn't even meowed for more then a half.

The best Carr can hope for right now is a Bartkowski Award, if he makes the Pro Bowl next year and we get into the playoffs. Loved and adored by all... within the city limits of Atlanta. ( plus one hardcore fan in Austin )

IF he goes on to win a Super Bowl this year... he could win the Simms Award.

But after that, he can only hope to capture the Hostetler Award ( and that would be a stretch ).

Other then Simms and Hostetler... every other QB for a winning a Super Bowl team has cracked the top 10 in NFL QBs' stat columns at some point in their first 4 seasons. ( yes even Dilfer )

The numbers be damned and the odds are against us, if Carr is going to win a Super Bowl.

The Pencil Neck
07-22-2006, 04:45 PM
Other then Simms and Hostetler... every other QB for a winning a Super Bowl team has cracked the top 10 in NFL QBs' stat columns at some point in their first 4 seasons. ( yes even Dilfer )

The numbers be damned and the odds are against us, if Carr is going to win a Super Bowl.

Bradshaw cracked the top 10 NFL QB's in his first 4 seasons? I wouldn't have expected that.

OTOH, the first player to win the rushing title and have their team win a championship the same year was Emmit Smith. The numbers were against them winning the SB that year because he won the rushing title. But... still... every season is a new season and there's always a first time.

The Pencil Neck
07-22-2006, 05:50 PM
Other then Simms and Hostetler... every other QB for a winning a Super Bowl team has cracked the top 10 in NFL QBs' stat columns at some point in their first 4 seasons. ( yes even Dilfer )


OK, so Bradshaw finished 6th in Passing Yards his second year... but that same year he threw 10 td's and 22 ints. His first 5 years statistically sucked. He was lucky he was on a good team.

But Staubach didn't finish in the top 10 in passing in his first 4 years. It wasn't until his 5th year that he fnished 4th in yards. Len Dawson didn't crack the top 10 until his 6th year and that was in the AFL. Bart Starr didn't crack the top 10 until his 5th year.

And I was just looking at player's stats off the top of my head; I wasn't going off the complete list of QB's who've won Super Bowls.

Where did you get your stats from?

The Pencil Neck
07-22-2006, 11:50 PM
Other then Simms and Hostetler... every other QB for a winning a Super Bowl team has cracked the top 10 in NFL QBs' stat columns at some point in their first 4 seasons. ( yes even Dilfer )

The numbers be damned and the odds are against us, if Carr is going to win a Super Bowl.

Dude. This is just totally wrong. Here is a list of all the quarterbacks of winning Superbowl teams AND the first time they broke into the top 10 in passing yards (which is usually the gold standard by judging QB's.)

Roethlisburger - Never.
Brady - 3rd season.
Brad Johnson - 6th season.
Trent Dilfer - Never.
Kurt Warner - 2nd season.
Elway - 3rd season.
Favre - 2nd season.
Aikman - 4th season.
Young - 8th season.
Rypien - 2nd season.
Hostetler - 8th season.
Montana - 3rd season.
Schroeder - 2nd season.
Simms - 5th season.
McMahon - Never.
Plunkett - 1st season.
Theisman - 8th season.
Bradshaw - 2nd season.
Staubach - 5th season.
Stabler - 4th season.
Griese - 1st season.
Unitas - 5th season.
Dawson - 6th season.
Namath - 1st season.
Starr - 5th season.

So... I don't know where you're getting your information or whether the stats I'm looking at are incorrect, but ... something's not right. There are 3 quarterbacks who've never broken the top 10 in passing yards who've won a Superbowl. Granted, Roethlisburger is a special case in that. Many didn't do it until after their 4th season.

So using that as a knock against Carr is not correct.

TwinSisters
07-23-2006, 12:57 AM
Dude. This is just totally wrong. Here is a list of all the quarterbacks of winning Superbowl teams AND the first time they broke into the top 10 in passing yards (which is usually the gold standard by judging QB's.)

So... I don't know where you're getting your information or whether the stats I'm looking at are incorrect, but ... something's not right. There are 3 quarterbacks who've never broken the top 10 in passing yards who've won a Superbowl. Granted, Roethlisburger is a special case in that. Many didn't do it until after their 4th season.

So using that as a knock against Carr is not correct.

No we are not just talking about passing yards. We are talking about major passing categories


Roethlisburger -
special case , but made adjusted yards per pass 5th his rookie season, 1st his Super Bowl season

Brady - 3rd season.
His second season as a starter

Brad Johnson - 6th season.
His first season as a starter he cracked top ten for TDs thrown. adjusted yards passed

Trent Dilfer - Never.
His second season attempts and completions his third TDs thrown

Kurt Warner - 2nd season.
HIS first season as a starter was first in several categories 2nd yards, 1st TDs, 1st adjusted yards

Elway - 3rd season.
yep and like 10 more after that

Favre - 2nd season.
his first season as a starter and 10 more after that

Aikman - 4th season.
his third season as a starter he cracked yards adjusted

Young - 8th season.
His first season as a starter he lit it up 7th in TDs thrown in his 91' season

Rypien - 2nd season.
ROOKIE season he cracked TDs thrown and yards adjusted

Hostetler - 8th season.
1st year as starter with Giants cracked yards adjusted , 3rd season first as starter with Raiders cracks yards thrown

Montana - 3rd season.
1st season as starter he cracks yards adjusted and then 10 more in some column or another

Schroeder - 2nd season.
Rookie season cracks yards adjusted breakout season in 86 before the Super Bowl

Simms - 5th season.
yep, missed his 4th due to injury

McMahon - Never.
made yards adjusted his rookie season ( never played a full season )

Plunkett - 1st season.
Cracked it his first 4 seasons before getting traded

Theisman - 8th season.
his 1st season as a starter he made attempts his second TDs thrown before lighting it up for 4 seasons straight

Bradshaw - 2nd season.
yep...horrible rookie season, but his second season is without Harris, Swann, Stallworth

Staubach - 5th season.
First season as starter cracks TDs thrown and is first in yards adjusted

Stabler - 4th season.
1st year as starter he cracks top tens and then rips 7 off straight

Griese - 1st season.
Yep rookie year starter cutting it up

Unitas - 5th season.
Didn't start counting until 1965. And this man is in the top from 1960 to 1970.

Dawson - 6th season.
first year as starter he is in the top

Namath - 1st season.
yep

Starr - 5th season.
well what can you say when you make your money running the Power Sweep?
His isn the top ten from 1960 until 1967


The only adjustement that would need to be made is for Jim McMahon. And let me tell you something... Jim McMahon is the Anti-Carr. I would pass out if I saw David Carr drop his pants and moon a flock of critics and then go into a game kicking his lineman in the ass for screwing up ( literally ).

and that's just the winning QBs

the same story is told on the other side of the fence for the QBs that made it to the Super Bowl without winning it.

If Carr doesn't win the Super Bowl this year... he is breaking new ground against the odds. Because after that, he is in a pasture all of his own.

EDIT:

Okay I caught a mistake in wording. 'Seasons starting' with the opportunity to crack a top ten stat column. Bench riding seasons do not count... you are not going to do anything, if you are not playing.

The Pencil Neck
07-23-2006, 01:41 AM
No we are not just talking about passing yards. We are talking about major passing categories.
<snippage>
Okay I caught a mistake in wording. 'Seasons starting' with the opportunity to crack a top ten stat column. Bench riding seasons do not count... you are not going to do anything, if you are not playing.


I think that's making putting an unfair restriction on it. If the guy wasn't good enough to get off the bench or not is irrelevant. The comparison should be made on the first 4 years in the league. Period.

And making it about ANY statistical category is also just BS.

I think if you look at the stats objectively, there are a lot of quarterbacks that had great careers but who didn't do well (statistically at least) the first 4 years or so.

I mean, look a Bradshaw's numbers. You're giving him a pass on his second season when he broke the top 10 in attempts, completions, and yards but that year he threw 13 TD's and 22 interceptions. If Carr had those numbers, you'd be all over him for that and wouldn't be bringing up anything about statistical categories.

TexansSeminole
07-23-2006, 02:54 AM
We are an expansion team, and Carr has been on this team since the beginning. You cannot really compare us to other teams as being a expansion team is a disadvantage of its own. We have only been in the league for 4 years.

MorKnolle
07-23-2006, 10:10 AM
I think that's making putting an unfair restriction on it. If the guy wasn't good enough to get off the bench or not is irrelevant. The comparison should be made on the first 4 years in the league. Period.

And making it about ANY statistical category is also just BS.

I think if you look at the stats objectively, there are a lot of quarterbacks that had great careers but who didn't do well (statistically at least) the first 4 years or so.

I mean, look a Bradshaw's numbers. You're giving him a pass on his second season when he broke the top 10 in attempts, completions, and yards but that year he threw 13 TD's and 22 interceptions. If Carr had those numbers, you'd be all over him for that and wouldn't be bringing up anything about statistical categories.

Good point on Bradshaw, I was going to bring that up before but didn't bother. I also wouldn't consider being in the top 10 in the league in attempts or even completions any kind of honor, all that means is that you're in an offense that throws the ball a lot. Having to chunk the ball 40 times a game doesn't necessarily speak highly of your skills. For that matter passing yards can also be more of a reflection of the offensive system you're running. The main stats you should look at would be completion percentage (can also somewhat be determined by offensive system) and TD/INT ratio (measures efficiency with your passes and taking care of the ball), which not coincidentally are two major components of calculating QB rating.

BigDTexansFan
07-23-2006, 10:30 AM
What is our weakest position? And what do you think we will address in next years first round?


I would say depth, injuries are seemingly a daily problem no matter the team. We need to have backup players that can step in and no drop off.:stirpot:

Brandon420tx
07-23-2006, 05:34 PM
Dear god, we have other C*** threads for this ****.... My vote still lands on Linebacker and Kicker.

adrianshrev
07-23-2006, 07:25 PM
well, looking into the crystal ball for next year wr will be our weakest position
lb will be 2nd
db3rd
dl 4th
ol5th
rb 6th

wr bc of the age of moulds, several players there are on 1 yr contracts mathis will be entering his last yr of contract and he would be rfa after next season :shades:

swtbound07
07-24-2006, 03:03 AM
Dear god, we have other C*** threads for this ****.... My vote still lands on Linebacker and Kicker.

Like it or hate it, Carr IS a legitimate answer to the question initially posed by this thread

Brandon420tx
07-24-2006, 11:43 AM
Like it or hate it, Carr IS a legitimate answer to the question initially posed by this thread

Yes it is, I've never had a problem with you saying its carr thats the weakest position, I have a problem with everyone arguing with you and you arguing with them after that, especially when what you are all (Everyone continuing the arguement) saying would probably be better off in a thread with a different topic and it is totally killing, not only the direction of this thread, but the overall main theme of the thread, but I digress, you'll probably spin this reply into another way to continue the Carr discussion.


Well, I'll give it one more shot, is there any other position (Besides Carr) that you think we should look into during next years draft?

swtbound07
07-24-2006, 11:47 AM
Yes it is, I've never had a problem with you saying its carr thats the weakest position, I have a problem with everyone arguing with you and you arguing with them after that, especially when what you are all (Everyone continuing the arguement) saying would probably be better off in a thread with a different topic and it is totally killing, not only the direction of this thread, but the overall main theme of the thread, but I digress, you'll probably spin this reply into another way to continue the Carr discussion.


Well, I'll give it one more shot, is there any other position (Besides Carr) that you think we should look into during next years draft?

Free Safety...I have seen this as a weakness for a while, and was the chief proponent of Sean Taylor on these boards back in the day

Vinny
07-24-2006, 11:48 AM
Well, I'll give it one more shot, is there any other position (Besides Carr) that you think we should look into during next years draft?I thought this was a thread about the weakest position on the team currently? Start a new thread if you want to turn it into a 2007 draft thread.

Brandon420tx
07-24-2006, 12:00 PM
I thought this was a thread about the weakest position on our team and what we should draft in the early rounds next year.

Brandon420tx
07-24-2006, 12:02 PM
Free Safety...I have seen this as a weakness for a while, and was the chief proponent of Sean Taylor on these boards back in the day

Alot of people seem to be leaning towards safety these days. I'm still with LB, and I know your with the QB crowd. :) maybe we should make a pie chart.

Vinny
07-24-2006, 12:04 PM
I thought this was a thread about the weakest position on our team and what we should draft in the early rounds next year.You are right but it seems you won't tolerate people talking about Carr (yes, some people think this is a weakness). After re-reading the first post I take the comment back...but it is quite ok to talk about David Carr if people want to discuss him here.

Brandon420tx
07-24-2006, 12:09 PM
The discussion was giving me a headache, but its not like people will actually listen to me, (When has a Carr thread EVER stopped because someone asked it to?) I can't even finish the new Carr Thread. (Couldn't make it past page 4 even though some of it was quite amusing and I wanted to comment but I don't comment unless I read a thread in entirety)

real
07-24-2006, 12:10 PM
I thought this was a thread about the weakest position on the team currently? Start a new thread if you want to turn it into a 2007 draft thread.

Wow...who made YOU mad ??

swtbound07
07-24-2006, 12:10 PM
The discussion was giving me a headache, but its not like people will actually listen to me, (When has a Carr thread EVER stopped because someone asked it to?) I can't even finish the new Carr Thread. (Couldn't make it past page 4 even though some of it was quite amusing and I wanted to comment but I don't comment unless I read a thread in entirety)

Yeah...nobody is going to listen to you...especially not the guy with the giant pot in his avatar

Brandon420tx
07-24-2006, 12:11 PM
Yes, unfortunately I can't create a nice avatar to rebuttle yours, but I love Dunta's hits wayyy too much.

Vinny
07-24-2006, 12:11 PM
Wow...who made YOU mad ??
nobody...I'm not mad at anything. My being angry is only in your mind.

Brandon420tx
07-24-2006, 12:14 PM
I'm gonna take Vinny up on his suggestion and make a poll on next years draft, that way we get to see pretty percentages (Yay) Should I make the O-line 1 part of it or spread it out into T, G, and C?

real
07-24-2006, 12:31 PM
nobody...I'm not mad at anything. My being angry is only in your mind.

Well, whatever you are....your post are coming across in an upset tone...but maybe it's just me...

Vinny
07-24-2006, 01:08 PM
its you

humbleone
07-24-2006, 04:45 PM
My answer to the literal original question asked on this thread is linebacker ... for all the reasons already mentioned by Vinny and others (no real middle linebacker on the roster that I can see).

That said, and stretching the question just a bit, my answer would be depth. Our starters along with our coaching and game plans will make us competitive with almost anyone this year IMO but we are very questionable beyond them at many positions.

What if AJ, DD, CC Brown, Ryans or God forbid Drob went down? And with Mathis out, I don't have a clue who is going to return kicks or back that guy up.

The good news is that last year my list of depth concerns would have included QB, TE, 3 OL, and 1 DL.

Go Texans...kill'em all and let the paramedics sort it out! :redtowel:

TwinSisters
07-24-2006, 06:43 PM
I think that's making putting an unfair restriction on it. If the guy wasn't good enough to get off the bench or not is irrelevant. The comparison should be made on the first 4 years in the league. Period.

And making it about ANY statistical category is also just BS.

I think if you look at the stats objectively, there are a lot of quarterbacks that had great careers but who didn't do well (statistically at least) the first 4 years or so.

I mean, look a Bradshaw's numbers. You're giving him a pass on his second season when he broke the top 10 in attempts, completions, and yards but that year he threw 13 TD's and 22 interceptions. If Carr had those numbers, you'd be all over him for that and wouldn't be bringing up anything about statistical categories.

No. I would be all over Carr for being a loser.

ANY statistical category only puts emphasis on how miserable Carr has been.
Carr has shown nothing in any category against his peers, while just about every other QB in the same category has ...in some way or another.

Bradshaw was 11-3 in his third season.

The restriction is not for riding the bench, it's for opportunity to show what you got. Guys that were on the bench were deemed not ready to start. David Carr was.

I am not giving him a pass either, what I am saying is that he showed SOMETHING, some small glimpse of what he was capable of to warrant being a starter in the 75 to 80 dynasty years. Carr has not.

Bradshaw is a guy that I had to be force feed into understanding how great he was. So to say I would give him a pass on anything would be a stretch.

That second season of his ( Bradshaw ) he was tied for tenth in the NFL for TDs.

Carr has absolutely no production whatsoever to show for his 4 years in the NFL as a starter. None. Everything is mediocre to bad. These other guys all have something, something that put them at the top, in the elite QBs of the league at some point. Carr notta.

That's a weakness.

Any QB that has poor stats, has wins. One or the other. Stats or wins, and the best have both.

TexansSeminole
07-24-2006, 06:57 PM
What if AJ, DD, CC Brown, Ryans or God forbid Drob went down? And with Mathis out, I don't have a clue who is going to return kicks or back that guy up.
Yeah, I know, our safety play without CC Brown sounds painful. And overall our secondary has little depth.

If DD went down I think we lose atleast 400 rushing yards for the entire year. We have some people that could step in and get yardage, but not really a player who can consistently run for 100 yards a game.

I'd be more upset if Ryans gets injured because then he loses very needed experience (I think we are all hoping he will become one of our starting linebackers for the next 5 years if not more).

Buchanon should return kicks (he better, if he doesn't play well at CB this year, this is going to be his main job).

Depth is a big weakness this year, but I think it was worse last year. I thought our whole team needed depth last year, some of the biggest were some of the ones you listed. Kubiak has been doing a pretty good job with that, knowing him, he'd probably want to draft a bunch of players and teach them his system.

TexansSeminole
07-24-2006, 07:10 PM
The restriction is not for riding the bench, it's for opportunity to show what you got. Guys that were on the bench were deemed not ready to start. David Carr was.

Who says he was ready to start? Dom Capers? Ok. That means alot to me. In any situation, Dom Capers is the last person I would ask for football advice.

ANY statistical category only puts emphasis on how miserable Carr has been.
Carr has shown nothing in any category against his peers, while just about every other QB in the same category has ...in some way or another.

There are so many reasons for this including coaching, players he has played with, scheme etc.

I dont think you can compare quarterbacks by putting stats up. If they are blatently obvious stats like Peyton Manning has thrown 33000 yards in his career, yes, you can obviously make the assumption that he is a good quarterback. But you can't compare him to other quarterbacks based on stats only.

How many of those quarterback's teams were as bad as Carrs'. What about their situation with their coaches? Every quarterback has a different situation, alot of the time, that dictates how well they show up in the stat column.

The Pencil Neck
07-24-2006, 07:40 PM
Bradshaw was 11-3 in his third season.


No. The Steelers were 11-3 in Bradshaw's third season. That was not because of Bradshaw and his 12/12 TD to Int ratio or his 47% completion rate.


The restriction is not for riding the bench, it's for opportunity to show what you got. Guys that were on the bench were deemed not ready to start. David Carr was.

I am not giving him a pass either, what I am saying is that he showed SOMETHING, some small glimpse of what he was capable of to warrant being a starter in the 75 to 80 dynasty years. Carr has not.


Carr did what was asked of him. That's the problem. He did what Capers asked him to do.


Bradshaw is a guy that I had to be force feed into understanding how great he was. So to say I would give him a pass on anything would be a stretch.

That second season of his ( Bradshaw ) he was tied for tenth in the NFL for TDs.


Have you really, really looked at those stats from Bradshaw's second year? I mean, really? He threw 13 TD's in 14 games. And he threw 22 picks and you're talking about that as some sort of Achievement that Carr hasn't matched? Carr has thrown for 16 TD's in a 16 game season and he didn't throw 25+ interceptions, so is Carr better than Bradshaw? Oh, right. That's right. The whole reason the Texans win or lose is because of Carr and all the rest of the players are irrelevant. So because our record isn't as good as the Steeler's record, Carr is worse than Bradshaw. I keep forgetting that. :sarcasm:

I can't believe that you're using Bradshaw's early career as some sort of example that Carr should aspire to.

TexansSeminole
09-21-2006, 02:13 AM
Let's bring this topic up again now that we have seen our team play two games. What is our weakest position now?

dbspi
09-21-2006, 07:31 AM
After two games it is very clear that we need another Stud CB, FS and one outside linebacker to go along with Demeco Ryan next year. We also need another stud DT who can push the pocket and replace Seth Payne in line up.


Presently in our first two games our front 4 are not able to get the job done and are not able to put any kind of pressure on the opposing team.


On offence we have most of the pieces already and all it requires is that they need some more experience working together as one unit. Its really a shame what happened with Spencer because he really needed this year to learn and grow. I really like to see work horse Adrian Peterson get drafter by us if we are in a position to draft him or some one like that in the up coming draft if our current running back doesn't get the job done this year or show some promise of such. This will help us control the line of scrimage and help us move the chain.

Hulk75
09-21-2006, 07:34 AM
After two games it is very clear that we need another Stud CB, FS and one outside linebacker to go along with Demeco Ryan next year. We also need another stud DT who can push the pocket and replace Seth Payne in line up.


Presently in our first two games our front 4 are not able to get the job done and are not able to put any kind of pressure on the opposing team.


On offence we have most of the pieces already and all it requires is that they need some more experience working together as one unit. Its really a shame what happened with Spencer because he really needed this year to learn and grow. I really like to see work horse Adrian Peterson get drafter by us if we are in a position to draft him or some one like that in the up coming draft if our current running back doesn't get the job done this year or show some promise of such. This will help us control the line of scrimage and help us move the chain.

D.Rob counts as the "other" you talk about?:yawn: :cool:

BlueThunder
09-21-2006, 09:16 AM
Its still early but I would love to see a star feature back lining up in the Texans backfield.Other then that I see a complete shake up on defense with as many a 7 new players and new DC...I think atleast 2 players could be drafted for defense..:brickwall

Hopefully we can salvage the very best of the best but this year is time for these players to **** or get off the pot..I know theres talent on this defense and we have the whole year to find out who fits and who don't..

The Pencil Neck
09-22-2006, 03:45 PM
Do you want to make it to the playoffs yet again, the Superbowl? Then the weakest position is obviously QB because there is no way, EVER, that Carr is going to take this team there. EVER.

Considering the caliber of QB's that have made it to the Superbowl, this statement is insane. You don't have to have a very good QB to make it to the Superbowl and Carr isn't THAT bad.

JohnGalt
09-22-2006, 06:13 PM
Let's bring this topic up again now that we have seen our team play two games. What is our weakest position now?


Easy.... Left and Right Tackle

TexansSeminole
11-07-2006, 12:59 AM
I bumped this thread to show you how our predictions have been. In this thread we discuss our weakest position and things have gone a different way than most of us have expected...although most of us were right about the weakest positions.

Now I ask, again, what do you guys think our weakest position is. We are at the middle of the season. When I started this thread it was before the season started so I am asking after 8 games.

I think it is safety, we have been bad in coverage all year. Second I would go with LB because we can't stop the run in key situations, and we seem to lose against teams that run well almost every time. Third I would say depth and talent in the O-line, we need guys who can pass block and run block both with efficiency.

brewhaus
11-07-2006, 04:31 AM
I bumped this thread to show you how our predictions have been. In this thread we discuss our weakest position and things have gone a different way than most of us have expected...although most of us were right about the weakest positions.

Now I ask, again, what do you guys think our weakest position is. We are at the middle of the season. When I started this thread it was before the season started so I am asking after 8 games.

I think it is safety, we have been bad in coverage all year. Second I would go with LB because we can't stop the run in key situations, and we seem to lose against teams that run well almost every time. Third I would say depth and talent in the O-line, we need guys who can pass block and run block both with efficiency.

I think you are pretty much "Right On". Safety, Outside Linbacker and the O Line (Tackle and center in my opinion) are the positions I would like to see addressed in the '07 draft. :twocents:

texansfanquecaneh
11-07-2006, 10:48 AM
What is our weakest position? And what do you think we will address in next years first round?

I still say we need to upgrade the offensive line first. Win the battles upfront. Push the defenders back. Should take care of the running game. Then we can look at our defensive backfield.:twocents:

coachdent
11-07-2006, 12:00 PM
DB, DT, OL, RB

We can't cover a soul. Daunte has not looked very good in recent weeks. At the very least, he has not played up to his potential. We need another lockdown corner and a hard hitting safety.

The defensive interior is also a concern. We can't generate much of a pass rush without help through the blitz. Seeings as we don't blitz that frequently because of our secondary, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't. We do not stop the run with our interior guys at all. Travis Johnson has played better this year, but is far from elite.

The Oline needs to be addressed, but already has somewhat with the two rookies drafted this year. Another year of maturation and they will be improved.

With DD not anywhere on the horizon, this becomes a need for next year.

- - - - - - - - -- - - -

It will depend a lot on where we finish. If things continue to go sour, we could be looking at a #3 pick. If so, Adrian Peterson is the guy to get.

Other names to dream about:
Joe Thomas - OT, Wisconsin
Jared Gaither - OT, Maryland
Antoine Cason - CB, Arizona
Marcus McCauley - CB, Fresno State

Matt Schaub is going to be a free agent. Depending on how David Carr finishes up the season, he could be a guy to persue. Michael Turner from San Diego is also a guy we will hopefully consider as well.

Too early to project, but after voting this morning, I have time on my hands!:redtowel:

wolfscar
11-07-2006, 01:02 PM
DT, CB, C, T

I'd like to see us pick up an experienced CB in free agency this offseason - someone who can top the depth chart and let D-Rob get back to doing what he does best at #2. Asante Samuel looks like he'll be available - he'd do nicely.

Same with Center - a solid, experienced guy who can step up and anchor the O-Line would be great.

For the draft, a big, hard hitting DT (although I'm starting to like the look of Maddox) and an OLB with the speed to cover the run.

We're weak across the O-Line, particularly at tackle, but Winston is showing some promise and Spencer has a lot of potential. I don't think more rookies are the way to go here.

wolfscar
11-07-2006, 01:06 PM
Does anyone have an update on DD? I've heard a lot of whispers that he's not coming back but nothing solid. What's the story?

I like elements of both Lundy and Gado. Dayne obviously sucks, but Gado has serious breakaway speed once he gets past the first tackle and Lundy might serve as a good #2 for our starter - whoever that may turn out to be. If DD isn't coming back then RB is a major concern. Wali's alright, but he does leave a lot of yards on the field (to steal a quote).

What's this year's rookie RB crop looking like?

Insideop
11-07-2006, 02:03 PM
Although I agree with the positions everyone here is picking, (OL, DL, DB, RB, OLB), I just don't have a good idea yet for what will be available in FA or the draft. Depending on DD's situation and what Lundy can do the rest of the year, Kubes may just go for a RB in the 1st round. I'm just not sure Peterson (sp?) is the answer. I don't know if he is durable enough.

As for the OL, depending on who will be available during FA, I think we still have to address this in the draft, due to the age of Wiegert, McKinney, Flanagan, and Salaam. If they can get a 4 to 5 year starting tackle or guard in FA, then maybe pick up a RT or C in the 2nd or 3rd round of the draft. JMHO!

AggieTexanFan
11-07-2006, 02:25 PM
Offensive Line
Joe Thomas, OT, Wisconsin (6-6½, 313) -Huge, quick and athletic with a long wingspan.

--Highest ranked OT in the coming draft

Joe Staley, OT, Central Michigan (6-5½, 300) -He's a former tight end who has developed into a natural left tackle. Staley brings incredible footwork, athleticism and agility to the position.

--might be a perfect fit for what Kubes is looking for in a OT

Defensive Backs
Leon Hall, CB, Michigan (5-11, 193)-Tough customer who also shows very good anticipation and awareness in coverage. Hall leads the Wolverines with three interceptions.

LaRon Landry, DB, LSU (6-1½, 205)-Four-year starter who has proven to be Mr. Reliable throughout his career. Landry leads LSU with 25 solo tackles

Marcus McCauley, CB, Fresno St. (6-0½, 200) -He has the size and speed (4.33 40-yard dash) with outstanding coverage technique.

Daymeion Hughes, CB, California (6-0, 187) -Big-play cornerback for the Golden Bears. Finished strong in 2005 and it has carried over to this season. Hughes has seven interceptions in eight games, which is tied for second in Division I-A.

Tom Zbikowski, S, Notre Dame (5-11½, 212)-An aggressive ball hawk who brings a swagger to the Irish's defense. A true play-maker who also excels as a punt returner. --could be a nice hard hitting combo next to Earl and lord knows we need a PR

--All look like soild young DBs

Defensive End
Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson (6-4½, 260) -Flashes dominating ability with his athleticism and quickness. Adams leads the Tigers with 9½ sacks

--Yes, I say why not get two young promising DEs. Pair him opposite Williams and have a pass rush from hell

LB
Paul Posluszny, LB, Penn St. (6-1½, 235)-A productive and consistent player who studies and prepares as thoroughly as anybody.

--Maybe he will fall in the draft and we can get him late

Buster Davis, LB, Florida State (5-10, 242) -Rock-solid player who is a shorter version of Ray Lewis.

I say we also try and find a Home-Run-Hitter in a Slot WR in the draft in the late rounds, much like the Saints did with Colston