PDA

View Full Version : Cut


Texans Horror
07-13-2006, 01:48 PM
I've heard that tomorrow a player and his bloated contract will be cut from the Texans roster. However, I was asked to withhold the name. Just wanted to give everybody a heads up and give us something to speculate about.

real
07-13-2006, 01:49 PM
wow...I bet its an o-lineman...

TEXANRED
07-13-2006, 01:50 PM
I would say Todd Wade

hollywood_texan
07-13-2006, 01:51 PM
I think it will be on the offensive side of the ball.

Texans Horror
07-13-2006, 01:59 PM
Seeing where we are now, who would you cut?

real
07-13-2006, 02:04 PM
Todd Wade...

TheOgre
07-13-2006, 02:05 PM
Wade is obvious selection. I could see Payne gone too since we have Weaver and Smith to start.

Coach C.
07-13-2006, 02:08 PM
A lineman is on his way out, also there are a couple of guys that are on the bubble. OSO stick to your principles though.

humbleone
07-13-2006, 03:21 PM
I agree that OSO is probably talking about Wade but also think that Bruener could be an "on the bubble" guy.

Nothing against him really, more of a numbers deal than anything else...he is winding his career down, we are now TE heavy for a change apparently, being a dual threat is not his stength and he is one of the few guys that we would save big cap money on (approx. $1M) with a move.

And, although the odds are against it IMO, there is some chance that TJ might be "on the bubble" also, not for cap reasons but to continue to demonstrate that draft position and contract issues do not trump performance (or lack thereof) with the new regime. I hope he gets the message and has a good-great camp so that this is no longer a possibility.

GO TEXANS!!! :redtowel:

swisher
07-13-2006, 03:22 PM
P-Burnt

the wonger need food
07-13-2006, 03:29 PM
The "bloated contract" part of the statement gives it away... it has to be Carr... :whoohoo:





But maybe Baire, Wade, Payne or Greenwood. My money is on Wade.

infantrycak
07-13-2006, 03:30 PM
P-Burnt

Buchanon is playing for just $800k--that hardly qualifies as a bloated contract.

Bruener isn't it IMO as his contract is not bloated either ($1 mil cap hit) and he is not just a blocking TE but one of the best blocking TE's in the NFL.

DocBar
07-13-2006, 03:32 PM
Weigart, Wong, Wade, Salaam, Pane, Laverne, Luchey(Yes I'm looking at the roster),Breuner, Cowart, Greenwood, Hape, Kalu....I think we will have a better idea of how this regime thinks AFTER some cuts are made. We simply don't know where they think we're deep and and/or who may be better off somewhere else... I forgot McKinney and probably several others...we also don't now, with any certainty, who performed better than whom in the coaches eyes. It has certainly seemed that this regime has found 4talent where we thought we had none(OL, QB, DB). I am very interested in who this player will be.

done88
07-13-2006, 03:32 PM
Wong will be cut. If he is finally goiong to come of the injured list they can clear his contract.

TEXANRED
07-13-2006, 03:37 PM
The "bloated contract" part of the statement gives it away... it has to be Carr... :whoohoo:






Your killing me.

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-13-2006, 03:37 PM
Wong will be cut. If he is finally goiong to come of the injured list they can clear his contract.

Did you know Wong is married to AC Slater's sister? (im not joking BTW)

infantrycak
07-13-2006, 03:40 PM
I forgot McKinney and probably several others...

This staff just signed McKinney to a 4 year extension--doubt he is on the block.

DocBar
07-13-2006, 03:41 PM
Did you know Wong is married to AC Slater's sister? (im not joking BTW)
who the hell is that?

done88
07-13-2006, 03:43 PM
Did you know Wong is married to AC Slater's sister? (im not joking BTW)

yes I did and I've seen AC at the YMCA working out while he was in town to visit Wong and his sister. Nice guy but little cocky.

U4ikrob
07-13-2006, 03:43 PM
my guesses are: Todd Wade, Seth Payne & Morlon Greenwood.

I think there may be more released in the next few weeks too...

Runner
07-13-2006, 03:43 PM
who the hell is that?
http://www.dogtulosba.com/blog/slater-thumb.jpg

There is a resemblance.

Str8tupg42k1
07-13-2006, 04:39 PM
yeah he was here last year for training camp. They had a page on the website talking about him and wong.

Doom Capers
07-13-2006, 04:41 PM
Hopefully Wong's career does better than A.C. Slater.

powerfuldragon
07-13-2006, 04:48 PM
Hopefully Wong's career does better than A.C. Slater.
his name is mario something.

TexanFan881
07-13-2006, 04:48 PM
Todd Wade. Hopefully Todd Wade. I don't want to see Morlon go...

powerfuldragon
07-13-2006, 04:50 PM
Todd Wade. Hopefully Todd Wade. I don't want to see Morlon go...
yeah, i'll be miffed if they cut morlon.

tiger06
07-13-2006, 04:56 PM
his name is mario something.

Mario Lopez... I loved Saved By the Bell

anyway Todd Wade sounds like a reasonable guess

Coach C.
07-13-2006, 04:56 PM
Has this not been reported yet. Well then I will keep my mouth shut, but you guys already know the fellas that got cut.

DocBar
07-13-2006, 05:02 PM
http://www.dogtulosba.com/blog/slater-thumb.jpg

There is a resemblance.
What the $&**((*&%^^%^&% kinda girly {(&*O*&^(&%^&RY% crap is that???? Is this an NFL MB or a slumber party????? Puttin pictures of girly-men on here. Oughta be a law!!!! Here's how men should look in pictures

156

ledzeppelin229
07-13-2006, 05:03 PM
who the hell is that?

The roided guy on "Saved by the Bell". I used to watch that all the time when I was younger.

TexanFan881
07-13-2006, 05:05 PM
Remember the Michael Bennett thread where it was "leaked out" that we were getting Michael Pittman. That never happened, and I'm not saying you guys aren't credible, but I'm not believing anything until it actually happens. I do believe someone will get cut who has a pretty big contract though wheter it's tomorrow or right before TC.

Coach C.
07-13-2006, 05:07 PM
TexanFan I will make a bet with you right now. Just PM me if you are up for it.

infantrycak
07-13-2006, 05:15 PM
TexanFan I will make a bet with you right now. Just PM me if you are up for it.

Are you intimating more than one person is getting cut tomorrow?

bayoudreamn
07-13-2006, 05:17 PM
What the $&**((*&%^^%^&% kinda girly {(&*O*&^(&%^&RY% crap is that???? Is this an NFL MB or a slumber party????? Puttin pictures of girly-men on here. Oughta be a law!!!! Here's how men should look in pictures

156

LMAO.....love the attachment. Is that your girlfriend you are spraying? :hides:

Coach C.
07-13-2006, 05:17 PM
I am saying that there may have been more than one person cut that has yet to be reported, but I will not say much past that. You may PM me if you wish to talk about it past that I really have no further info on the subject.

TexanFan881
07-13-2006, 05:22 PM
TexanFan I will make a bet with you right now. Just PM me if you are up for it.

I'm not betting, I've already pretty much lost one bet on this board. :shoot:

infantrycak
07-13-2006, 05:25 PM
I am saying that there may have been more than one person cut that has yet to be reported, but I will not say much past that. You may PM me if you wish to talk about it past that I really have no further info on the subject.

I wasn't trying to get any more information than that--I can wait and I wouldn't encourage anyone to betray someone's trust.

powerfuldragon
07-13-2006, 05:37 PM
LMAO.....love the attachment. Is that your girlfriend you are spraying? :hides:
i didn't know docbar was an aggie... :D

TEXANRED
07-13-2006, 05:45 PM
Remember the Michael Bennett thread where it was "leaked out" that we were getting Michael Pittman. That never happened, and I'm not saying you guys aren't credible, but I'm not believing anything until it actually happens. I do believe someone will get cut who has a pretty big contract though wheter it's tomorrow or right before TC.
Or how about when it leaked out that Grey was going to be our D coordinator that following Monday and Mike Martz was going to be our OC.

DocBar
07-13-2006, 05:49 PM
LMAO.....love the attachment. Is that your girlfriend you are spraying? :hides:
That's no lady...that's my wife!!!!

bayoudreamn
07-13-2006, 06:07 PM
i didn't know docbar was an aggie... :D

haha......that's COLD!

bayoudreamn
07-13-2006, 06:09 PM
That's no lady...that's my wife!!!!


rofl.....WAY TO GO, DOC!

TwinSisters
07-13-2006, 06:21 PM
i didn't know docbar was an aggie... :D

:heh:

O lordy...

this is going to be the longest off season ever.

wags
07-13-2006, 06:33 PM
If Payne or Wong get cut that would be a swift kick in the ..... Didn't we just re-sign those guys to 4 year deals last year?

Porky
07-13-2006, 06:34 PM
Back to the original intent. I know this isn't exactly going out on a limb, but my guess is Todd Wade. He doesn't fit the system, has some injury concerns, and is overpaid to boot.

jerek
07-13-2006, 07:01 PM
Back to the original intent. I know this isn't exactly going out on a limb, but my guess is Todd Wade. He doesn't fit the system, has some injury concerns, and is overpaid to boot.

As much as I would like to see Wade cut I believe we take a bigger cap hit this year to cut him versus keeping him.

infantrycak
07-13-2006, 07:02 PM
If Payne or Wong get cut that would be a swift kick in the ..... Didn't we just re-sign those guys to 4 year deals last year?

Payne signed a 4 year deal thru 2008--Wong signed a 5 year deal thru 2009.

JMO--Payne is not on the chopping block. Wong unlikely.

DRAMA
07-13-2006, 10:33 PM
I'm not asking who it is but does his name rhyme with 'God Made?'

Just throwin' that out there.... :redtowel:

threetoedpete
07-13-2006, 11:02 PM
I agree that OSO is probably talking about Wade but also think that Bruener could be an "on the bubble" guy.

Nothing against him really, more of a numbers deal than anything else...he is winding his career down, we are now TE heavy for a change apparently, being a dual threat is not his stength and he is one of the few guys that we would save big cap money on (approx. $1M) with a move.

And, although the odds are against it IMO, there is some chance that TJ might be "on the bubble" also, not for cap reasons but to continue to demonstrate that draft position and contract issues do not trump performance (or lack thereof) with the new regime. I hope he gets the message and has a good-great camp so that this is no longer a possibility.

GO TEXANS!!! :redtowel:
I'm on this bandwagon. good post.

threetoedpete
07-13-2006, 11:04 PM
If it is Wade, and I hate to see anybody's rice bowl cracked.....That would mean that Eric is doing OK and penciled in @ ORT ?

Str8tupg42k1
07-13-2006, 11:04 PM
give us a hint :ok:

is the player injured?

Kaiser Toro
07-13-2006, 11:08 PM
Cut! Take 5!

Hutch13
07-13-2006, 11:15 PM
Todd Wade is my first guess then it would be Morlon Greenwood. Nothing against you OSO, but are you sure this is a credible source?

MorKnolle
07-14-2006, 12:33 AM
Wade is going to be the guy, everyone's known it for months, especially since we got Spencer and Winston in the 3rd round.

infantrycak
07-14-2006, 01:16 AM
If it is Wade, and I hate to see anybody's rice bowl cracked.....That would mean that Eric is doing OK and penciled in @ ORT ?

For the time being that means Wiegert is penciled in at RT--right where he played in the mini-camps, ahead of Wade and Winston.

Kaiser Toro
07-14-2006, 08:05 AM
What do Bob McNair and LL Cool J have in common?

Both have employed a Cut Creator.

bigbrewster2000
07-14-2006, 08:06 AM
What do Bob McNair and LL Cool J have in common?

The both have employed a Cut Creator.
LOL That was pretty good.

The Dude Abides
07-14-2006, 09:33 AM
yes I did and I've seen AC at the YMCA working out while he was in town to visit Wong and his sister. Nice guy but little cocky.

You'd be cocky too if you fooled around with Jesse Spano before her stripper years.

Str8tupg42k1
07-14-2006, 09:55 AM
when are we gonna find out who got the axe?

Kaiser Toro
07-14-2006, 10:00 AM
when are we gonna find out who got the axe?

As soon as the Cut Chemist serves them up on wax and vinyl dishes. :fireball:

powerfuldragon
07-14-2006, 10:32 AM
still no news on the website.

El Tejano
07-14-2006, 10:59 AM
somebody better get cut today.

Coach C.
07-14-2006, 11:01 AM
I doubt(just a hunch) that it may not be announced today, but hell it is a possibility.

Runner
07-14-2006, 11:06 AM
There's the scent of blood in the water and the sharks are circling.

<insert Jaws music here>

the wonger need food
07-14-2006, 11:09 AM
"We find it's always better to fire people on a Friday. Studies have statistically shown that there's less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week."

Name the movie...

TexansSeminole
07-14-2006, 11:15 AM
"We find it's always better to fire people on a Friday. Studies have statistically shown that there's less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week."

Name the movie...

Office Space...good movie.

Anyway, look at the positions we have the most depth in and too much money in.

El Tejano
07-14-2006, 11:20 AM
And it is a good time to fire them anytime after 2:30pm. Statistics show.

HJam72
07-14-2006, 11:34 AM
I would have thought the best time was Monday morning, just as they're getting up. Call them and you might even get a, "Thank you, zzzzzzzzzzzz....click."

AFD1717
07-14-2006, 11:55 AM
"We find it's always better to fire people on a Friday. Studies have statistically shown that there's less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week."

Name the movie...
Office Space! Shot right here in the ATX!

I know Wade is a bigger hit if we cut him this year than he would be if we kept him, but what happens next year? If we cut him now, do we still owe on him next year? Maybe our coaching staff/front office are thinking that this year is a year to improve and learn the system, but next year is our first real shot at the playoffs so lets cut the dead weight now and get it over with even if it hurts us a little this season. I really don't know how the cap works, so I could be way off.

Runner
07-14-2006, 11:57 AM
"We find it's always better to fire people on a Friday. Studies have statistically shown that there's less chance of an incident if you do it at the end of the week."

Name the movie...

Except the player probably knew before Friday.

Runner
07-14-2006, 11:58 AM
Office Space! Shot right here in the ATX!

I know Wade is a bigger hit if we cut him this year than he would be if we kept him, but what happens next year? If we cut him now, do we still owe on him next year? Maybe our coaching staff/front office are thinking that this year is a year to improve and learn the system, but next year is our first real shot at the playoffs so lets cut the dead weight now and get it over with even if it hurts us a little this season. I really don't know how the cap works, so I could be way off.

If they have to take a big hit, it may be smart to do it this year since they have the space.

swisher
07-14-2006, 12:06 PM
Buchanon is playing for just $800k--that hardly qualifies as a bloated contract.

Well, if he was playing for minimum wage it would be bloated for Buchanon.

They should cut him anyway.

South Texan
07-14-2006, 12:08 PM
Except the player probably knew before Friday.


Anyone know if any of our team members suddenly started listing their Texan jerseys, etc. on EBAY in the last day or two? :stirpot:

MorKnolle
07-14-2006, 12:41 PM
Office Space! Shot right here in the ATX!

I know Wade is a bigger hit if we cut him this year than he would be if we kept him, but what happens next year? If we cut him now, do we still owe on him next year? Maybe our coaching staff/front office are thinking that this year is a year to improve and learn the system, but next year is our first real shot at the playoffs so lets cut the dead weight now and get it over with even if it hurts us a little this season. I really don't know how the cap works, so I could be way off.

My understanding is since it is after June 1 the majority of his cap hit goes against our cap next year, and just his pro-rated amount of his signing bonus for this year counts against this year's cap.

Except the player probably knew before Friday.

This is likely the case, for all we know he was probably notified a day or two ago and they just haven't announced it to the public yet, I wouldn't be surprised if there are more players that have been released that we haven't heard about yet.

fan no matter what
07-14-2006, 12:42 PM
my guess is wong, wade, payne

tough one to call
:hunter:

ojthecat
07-14-2006, 12:45 PM
I have heard that because of Kubiak's days at A&M where he had a phobia of Bevo that for this reason he will be cutting Toro later today.

South Texan
07-14-2006, 12:52 PM
I have heard that because of Kubiak's days at A&M where he had a phobia of Bevo that for this reason he will be cutting Toro later today.


Is that another way of saying we are all invited for BBQ at Kubiak's place tonight?:drool:

TexanAddict
07-14-2006, 01:30 PM
Should this prove to be true, I'm going to hitch my wagon to those that think it will be Wade getting the boot.

Second Honeymoon
07-14-2006, 02:06 PM
I think it will be Greenwood or Payne. Wade makes sense to an extent but I think depth at OL is something they arent willing to part with before the team takes the field. The interesting thing is this is one of the first major moves Smith is making since joining the team. I am curious to say which way he goes and dont be surprised if more than one of the likely suspects are released by the time the season rolls around.

I am personally looking forward to seeing if we can pick any scraps away from any other teams in order to plug holes. It would be nice to find some more depth at corner and safety. We got Marlon McCree a few years back and in Cass' and Capes' infinite wisdom let him go....this time with Smith at the helm we wont have freaking braindead idiots at the helm making personnel decisions.

doug from the woodlands

Htown34s
07-14-2006, 03:02 PM
Why is everyone down on Payne? He's been our best DL when healthy.

PapaL
07-14-2006, 03:04 PM
Why is everyone down on Payne? He's been our best DL when healthy.

He's never healthy - thus he is never our best DL.

Str8tupg42k1
07-14-2006, 03:24 PM
he was healthy all of last year and if i'm correct the year before last, except the game against the browns where i think he tore his tricep of bicep something like that. correct me if i'm wrong.

CloakNNNdagger
07-14-2006, 03:24 PM
http://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/nj/middlesex/tsimages/stjames/turk-m.jpg

Where He Be????????

infantrycak
07-14-2006, 03:37 PM
He's never healthy - thus he is never our best DL.

He has missed starting games in ONE of the last 7 seasons and those were all due to a single typical football injury resulting from turf so bad they changed it mid-season. I really don't understand where some of this stuff comes from.

cuppacoffee
07-14-2006, 03:48 PM
Is there a pressing need to cut players now?..idonno:

Why the hurry? Wouldn't it cost the same if players are cut now or during training camp?..:money:

The guys are signed with the team, give them a training camp and preseason games to impress the new coaches and the fans.

Lets see if some of the 'old' guys respond to the new coaching techniques and schemes.

I, for one, think we will be pleasantly suprised.

:coffee:

El Tejano
07-14-2006, 03:55 PM
I think we all just want something to speculate about. Its called the off season.

infantrycak
07-14-2006, 03:57 PM
Is there a pressing need to cut players now?..idonno:

Why the hurry?

Three main considerations--(1) consideration for the player, allowing more time to find a new home, (2) practical considerations for training camp on a limited number of reps--no point in giving them to someone you know won't be with the team and (3) injury concerns--there may be some players who are injured (Wong, Wade could be) that the team wouldn't be able to see in TC anyway--if film review doesn't show them as likely to make the team, they might go ahead and cut one loose.

MorKnolle
07-14-2006, 03:59 PM
Is there a pressing need to cut players now?..idonno:

Why the hurry? Wouldn't it cost the same if players are cut now or during training camp?..:money:

The guys are signed with the team, give them a training camp and preseason games to impress the new coaches and the fans.

Lets see if some of the 'old' guys respond to the new coaching techniques and schemes.

I, for one, think we will be pleasantly suprised.

:coffee:

Yes, but at the same time if they know the player doesn't have a chance of making the final roster (Wade does not at all fit a zone blocking scheme), then they might as well cut them now so other guys can get more reps in TC (beneficial to the team) and so the cut players have a better chance of signing on somewhere else (beneficial to them, if the team decides to be nice to them).

*Infantry beat me to it.

TexanFan881
07-14-2006, 05:25 PM
Wow. Good call guys :shocked

TexanFan881
07-14-2006, 05:35 PM
http://www.khou.com/sports/texans/stories/khou060714_cc_texascutwade.115b524a.html

Today the Texans announced they have waived 3 players including 6 foot 8, 314 pound lineman Todd Wade.

Wade, Fred Brock, and Terry Pierce were cut today.

I knew Pierce wasn't going to make the team:ok: We've got too much competition at MLB with Cowart, Ryans, and Rainier, for him to even have much of a shot. Atleast now all three of these players will have a chance to hook onto another team.

Insideop
07-14-2006, 05:38 PM
He has missed starting games in ONE of the last 7 seasons and those were all due to a single typical football injury resulting from turf so bad they changed it mid-season. I really don't understand where some of this stuff comes from.

In this case, I think it comes from Maryland!lol:

Runner
07-14-2006, 06:22 PM
To squeeze some more juice out of this thread, I think interesting questions are:

How did his exit physical go? Will the Texans have to pay an injury settlement? Is it a career ending injury? etc.

aj.
07-14-2006, 06:52 PM
My understanding is since it is after June 1 the majority of his cap hit goes against our cap next year, and just his pro-rated amount of his signing bonus for this year counts against this year's cap.
.

The minimum hit they can take this year is the one year proration. They can always take more. Teams often split the amount 50/50 over two seasons but it all depends on how much is being amortized and how they want to split it. They are dealing with Walker's 7 million as well so I doubt they push all but one year of both Walker and Wade's dead money to next year. That's a wallop. I was pissed when they spent 31 million in bonus money on Walker, Wade and Smith and now it's biting them in the ass.

There's a new CBA rule (that doesn't apply in Wade's case but it did in Walker's) that made it allowable for teams to identify up to two players for release pre-March 1 and gain the post-June 1 cap benefit of splitting the dead money over two seasons. The only catch is that the releasing team has to carry the player's full current year cap hit from March 1 - June 1 which ties up a little cap money during the free agent period.

TwinSisters
07-14-2006, 07:03 PM
I think the more interesting question is who scouted him and who brought him on board to a team that above all else need some solid players on the line?

Blu
07-14-2006, 07:48 PM
Todd Wade Cut?:yahoo:
A good draft and now cutting Wade.
I'm starting to feel 100% better about our Oline.
I was thinking the Texans were reaching when they just resigned Wade to that multiyear deal.

aj.
07-14-2006, 08:18 PM
The Texans didn't just re-sign Wade to a multi-year deal. They signed him to a ridiculous six year deal in '04.

Texans_Chick
07-14-2006, 09:03 PM
I think this is partially what Carr was talking about in his interview with 610 recently.

That we got guys for our Oline without really having an offensive philosophy of what sort of Oline we were putting together.

Wade is a nice guy and I wish him luck in the future.

aj.
07-14-2006, 09:13 PM
I think it was more conflicting philosophy, i.e. Capers/Palmer v. Capers/Pendry than no philosophy. Wade is a Capers-Pendry kind of dozer/grinder. Wand, for example, is more of an agile Palmer kind of tackle -theoretically at least. Dom couldn't navigate the confusion.

PapaL
07-14-2006, 09:18 PM
In this case, I think it comes from Maryland!lol:

Just because I live in MD now doesnt mean I have always lived in MD. Missed one start due to injury, how many games in total? Is the time he is on the field worth his total salary?

threetoedpete
07-14-2006, 09:58 PM
I think it was more conflicting philosophy, i.e. Capers/Palmer v. Capers/Pendry than no philosophy. Wade is a Capers-Pendry kind of dozer/grinder. Wand, for example, is more of an agile Palmer kind of tackle -theoretically at least. Dom couldn't navigate the confusion.
What was that Dangerfeild line..She was an earth sign & I was a water sign ...togtether we made mud. Was that what we witnessed last season ? Hawg Waller.

Texans_Chick
07-14-2006, 10:53 PM
I think it was more conflicting philosophy, i.e. Capers/Palmer v. Capers/Pendry than no philosophy. Wade is a Capers-Pendry kind of dozer/grinder. Wand, for example, is more of an agile Palmer kind of tackle -theoretically at least. Dom couldn't navigate the confusion.

It may just be semantics. Conflicting philosophies mean no philosophy--anarchy or mud, I suppose.

It was kinda painful to hear Carr in the interview trying to say nice things but explain what happened. The whole Pendry not completely doing his system and not feeling comfortable with the blended system and then sorta relinquishing the play calling for a couple of halves. It was ugly.

I think the whole Kubiak/Smith deal, and the hires that they have done with that are a reflection of a new determination to have everyone on the same page. I am not sure if it is all going to work, but it looks like they are committed to a philosophy, even if it means they have younger people to make it happen.

BTW, noticed in the McNair interview that he really played up the fact that one of the best things he liked about Smith is his openmindedness, and not just being committed to doing things the Denver way but to find best practices and incorporate it into the job. It was hard listening to that without making the mental jump that this was almost a sideways way of distancing himself from the Casserly traditional Redskins way of doing things.

Don't know if I was reading too much into that, but it was the first thing that came to mind.

I think a lot of times when we have failures in our lives, the next moves we make are often a reaction to that. That whatever our next move is, we just don't want it to be the same as what came before. It doesn't mean the new thing will work better, but we just don't want to repeat the same mistake.

Certainly, getting an offensive minded coach is a reaction to our conservative defensive minded coach who helmed a team that was embarrasing offensively. Hopefully it will work better than Seifert following Capers in Carolina.

CloakNNNdagger
07-15-2006, 12:30 AM
It may just be semantics. Conflicting philosophies mean no philosophy--anarchy or mud, I suppose.

It was kinda painful to hear Carr in the interview trying to say nice things but explain what happened. The whole Pendry not completely doing his system and not feeling comfortable with the blended system and then sorta relinquishing the play calling for a couple of halves. It was ugly.

I think the whole Kubiak/Smith deal, and the hires that they have done with that are a reflection of a new determination to have everyone on the same page. I am not sure if it is all going to work, but it looks like they are committed to a philosophy, even if it means they have younger people to make it happen.

BTW, noticed in the McNair interview that he really played up the fact that one of the best things he liked about Smith is his openmindedness, and not just being committed to doing things the Denver way but to find best practices and incorporate it into the job. It was hard listening to that without making the mental jump that this was almost a sideways way of distancing himself from the Casserly traditional Redskins way of doing things.

Don't know if I was reading too much into that, but it was the first thing that came to mind.

I think a lot of times when we have failures in our lives, the next moves we make are often a reaction to that. That whatever our next move is, we just don't want it to be the same as what came before. It doesn't mean the new thing will work better, but we just don't want to repeat the same mistake.

Certainly, getting an offensive minded coach is a reaction to our conservative defensive minded coach who helmed a team that was embarrasing offensively. Hopefully it will work better than Seifert following Capers in Carolina.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

It seemed that with all involved in the old regime, everything was in stone. No matter how unsuccessful, essentially philosophies never seemed to change, all the way up to the end. Reminds me of a saying my dad used to use:

"A stubborn person never gets anywhere because he thinks he is already there."

MorKnolle
07-15-2006, 12:52 AM
The minimum hit they can take this year is the one year proration. They can always take more. Teams often split the amount 50/50 over two seasons but it all depends on how much is being amortized and how they want to split it. They are dealing with Walker's 7 million as well so I doubt they push all but one year of both Walker and Wade's dead money to next year. That's a wallop. I was pissed when they spent 31 million in bonus money on Walker, Wade and Smith and now it's biting them in the ass.

There's a new CBA rule (that doesn't apply in Wade's case but it did in Walker's) that made it allowable for teams to identify up to two players for release pre-March 1 and gain the post-June 1 cap benefit of splitting the dead money over two seasons. The only catch is that the releasing team has to carry the player's full current year cap hit from March 1 - June 1 which ties up a little cap money during the free agent period.

OK, thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't sure if the teams had the choice of exactly how much they wanted to split it up over the two season.

TwinSisters
07-15-2006, 12:57 AM
:um:

They changed the system for Carr several times?

aj.
07-15-2006, 05:08 AM
BTW, noticed in the McNair interview that he really played up the fact that one of the best things he liked about Smith is his openmindedness, and not just being committed to doing things the Denver way but to find best practices and incorporate it into the job. It was hard listening to that without making the mental jump that this was almost a sideways way of distancing himself from the Casserly traditional Redskins way of doing things.

Don't know if I was reading too much into that, but it was the first thing that came to mind.



There's no "almost" about it.

Remember McNair's remarks when Reeves was hired? It was obvious then that Bob wasn't real happy with his GM playing the "that's the way we do it in the NFL" card on him. Bob's a smooth operator and for him to allow that to bubble up to the surface in public was quite telling at the time. It obviously burned his butt.

Rick Smith's "open-mindedness" is also code for McNair being a different owner now than he was as recently as two years ago. Now, if McNair sees something that he thinks is broken, he won't hesitate to play his CEO card (and Smith knows it) - instead of trusting his management team to work their way out of it - "because that's the way we do it in the NFL."

Our owner is going to be actively involved in this thing until he sees it working consistently the way he wants.

DocBar
07-15-2006, 05:24 AM
There's no "almost" about it.

Remember McNair's remarks when Reeves was hired? It was obvious then that Bob wasn't real happy with his GM playing the "that's the way we do it in the NFL" card on him. Bob's a smooth operator and for him to allow that to bubble up to the surface in public was quite telling at the time. It obviously burned his butt.

Rick Smith's "open-mindedness" is also code for McNair being a different owner now than he was as recently as two years ago. Now, if McNair sees something that he thinks is broken, he won't hesitate to play his CEO card (and Smith knows it) - instead of trusting his management team to work their way out of it - "because that's the way we do it in the NFL."

Our owner is going to be actively involved in this thing until he sees it working consistently the way he wants.
I hope ( and don't think it will) that doesn't lead to a situation like Washington has with Snyder or, to a lesser extent, Jerry Jones with a micromanaging owner.

aj.
07-15-2006, 09:02 AM
Bob's ego (at least the part that desires attention) is non-existent compared to those two. So I wouldn't worry about that part.

Bob's ego (the part that is a competitor) is alive and well but he doesn't want to be GM. He really will let Smith, Kubiak and Ferens do their thing, but, it will be worth watching the level of his involvement during the next year or two.

I think Bob will be watching the operation more closely and if he thinks an assistant coach isn't pulling his weight, he won't be afraid to speak up. I also think he will be far less accomodating in the future when writing obscene signing bonus checks to guys like a past prime Gary Walker and average players like Todd Wade.

He's a more confident owner now but I don't think that translates to him becoming the meddlesome owner that causes more harm than good. I don't think he has it in him. I think he knows the line he can't cross if he still wants a functional organization beneath him..

He doesn't want a coach and GM who are afraid to make decisions, but at the same time he will be watching things very closely until we get this thing turned around.

CloakNNNdagger
07-15-2006, 09:41 AM
aj,

A way that I read somewhere some time ago that some clubs "play" with the cap, is to set up a bonus based on performance of supposed "easily" obtainable goals. But in fact they are virtually impossible for the player to attain. This is done so that a credit can be returned to the club later in the year when monies are needed to replace an injured player.

Have the Texans, as far as you know, used this "loophole" and how does this approach usually play out?

DocBar
07-15-2006, 09:41 AM
That's what it seems like to me also. It can be a fine line to walk when you consider ALL the ego's involved.

ojthecat
07-15-2006, 09:48 AM
I hope ( and don't think it will) that doesn't lead to a situation like Washington has with Snyder or, to a lesser extent, Jerry Jones with a micromanaging owner.


Jerry Jones == 3 Superbowls. I will take that anyday. I beleive that the owner should take a active roll in the managment of the team. McNair is a very intelligent man that knows how to win I am very happy that he has become more active with the team.

Kaiser Toro
07-15-2006, 09:53 AM
Bob's ego (the part that is a competitor) is alive and well but he doesn't want to be GM. He really will let Smith, Kubiak and Ferens do their thing, but, it will be worth watching the level of his involvement during the next year or two.

Since you mentioned Ferens, doesn't there have too be some culpability with him due to the contracts for Walker, Smith and Wade? Or was he just signing away at Capers or Casserly's wishes? I just find it hard to believe he is still around. His resume is not that impressive in my opinion. Lead negotiator for the Steelers? That was and always has been the Rooneys. IMG? Golf and Tennis. Working the financial arm for a company that prospered because of Arnold Palmer and Nick Bollettieri does not really transfer to the American game of Football.

This guy is now our VP of Football Administration and I just do not see it. If you have any takes on him it would be greatly appreciated.

aj.
07-15-2006, 10:14 AM
My understanding is that part of Ferens charge was to look out for the long term cap health of the team, but prior to about January 27, Ferens worked for Casserly so the culpability is relative, especially when the organization becomes desperate for quick fixes as the wheels fly off.

Coach C.
07-15-2006, 10:16 AM
I will weigh in like I have before. Ferens should be gone also. He is not a football guy and the Rooneys got rid of him because he did not go with their hardball tactics with players. Look at how the Steelers, Patriots, and teams of the like deal with players, Ferens does not fit that description. The thing is he is a good numbers guy he knows better which makes it even worse. He is one of McNair's people really so he will likely be around for a while until he pisses Kubes off with some off the wall signing.

aj.
07-15-2006, 10:41 AM
aj,

A way that I read somewhere some time ago that some clubs "play" with the cap, is to set up a bonus based on performance of supposed "easily" obtainable goals. But in fact they are virtually impossible for the player to attain. This is done so that a credit can be returned to the club later in the year when monies are needed to replace an injured player.

Have the Texans, as far as you know, used this "loophole" and how does this approach usually play out?

You're talking about likely to be earned incentives (LTBEIs). If a team writes any LTBEIs into a player's contract, they immediately count on the cap when that business year begins on or around March 1 in a normal year. If the player doesn't achieve the incentive during the season, the team gets that money back the following season in the form of a cap credit. The Texans reeived a cap credit this season for Corey Bradford's unattained LTBEIs - whatever they were.

Not sure about intentionally gaming the system but if there's loopholes, teams will find them. I vaguely recall something about the Redskins doing this in the past. Not sure on specifics.

DocBar
07-15-2006, 10:44 AM
Jerry Jones == 3 Superbowls. I will take that anyday. I beleive that the owner should take a active roll in the managment of the team. McNair is a very intelligent man that knows how to win I am very happy that he has become more active with the team.
With the coaching staff and talent, that might have been in SPITE of Jones' meddling.

aj.
07-15-2006, 10:50 AM
I will weigh in like I have before. Ferens should be gone also. He is not a football guy and the Rooneys got rid of him because he did not go with their hardball tactics with players. Look at how the Steelers, Patriots, and teams of the like deal with players, Ferens does not fit that description. The thing is he is a good numbers guy he knows better which makes it even worse. He is one of McNair's people really so he will likely be around for a while until he pisses Kubes off with some off the wall signing.

I doubt if Ferens ever acted independently under Casserly - and Casserly was highly influenced by the wants of the coaching staff. It was a tangled web.

Ferens gained power in January and it will be interesting to watch the working relationship between him and Smith. I don't have a copy of Bob's org chart so I don't know if they have Ferens reporting to Smith or (more likely) having him report in to McNair, parallel to Smith. Sometimes you can't tell from titles, photo size, or name order in the media guide.

NFL Ops Business Managers don't have to be football guys, in fact most teams cap guys and contract negotiators are lawyers and finance guys. Ferens was one of two unanimous selections for best NFL capologist in a poll of 50 NFL executives in 1998.

CloakNNNdagger
07-15-2006, 10:53 AM
You're talking about likely to be earned incentives (LTBEIs). If a team writes any LTBEIs into a player's contract, they immediately count on the cap when that business year begins on or around March 1 in a normal year. If the player doesn't achieve the incentive during the season, the team gets that money back the following season in the form of a cap credit. The Texans reeived a cap credit this season for Corey Bradford's unattained LTBEIs - whatever they were.

Not sure about intentionally gaming the system but if there's loopholes, teams will find them. I vaguely recall something about the Redskins doing this in the past. Not sure on specifics.



Thanks for explain.

Texans_Chick
07-15-2006, 10:59 AM
There's no "almost" about it.

Remember McNair's remarks when Reeves was hired? It was obvious then that Bob wasn't real happy with his GM playing the "that's the way we do it in the NFL" card on him. Bob's a smooth operator and for him to allow that to bubble up to the surface in public was quite telling at the time. It obviously burned his butt.

Rick Smith's "open-mindedness" is also code for McNair being a different owner now than he was as recently as two years ago. Now, if McNair sees something that he thinks is broken, he won't hesitate to play his CEO card (and Smith knows it) - instead of trusting his management team to work their way out of it - "because that's the way we do it in the NFL."

Our owner is going to be actively involved in this thing until he sees it working consistently the way he wants.


Well yeah. I said "almost" just because I am not a mind reader so I can't say with 100% certainty, but it would be certainty enough to bet money on.

Bob ain't gonna be doing pregame speeches and walking the sidelines during games or telling his coaches that they have to take Vince even if they don't want him, but yeah, you are right with: Now, if McNair sees something that he thinks is broken, he won't hesitate to play his CEO card (and Smith knows it) - instead of trusting his management team to work their way out of it - "because that's the way we do it in the NFL."

I think, from hearing him talk, he is more interested in the process of things, best practices, and the big picture of how they are doing stuff (running football operations as a business), then the details of what they are doing. So if you are doing a big trade (P-Buc for two draft picks, for example) he wants to make sure that there is a process in place that makes sure that we have done our due diligence.

Texans_Chick
07-15-2006, 11:06 AM
Jerry Jones == 3 Superbowls. I will take that anyday. I beleive that the owner should take a active roll in the managment of the team. McNair is a very intelligent man that knows how to win I am very happy that he has become more active with the team.

Alternative history is a funny thing.

I've always wonder what would have happened had Jerry Jones been able to get along with Jimmy Johnson. Fewer or more rings? It will be interesting to see how the Tuna experiment ends because if it ends poorly, Jones runs the risk of becoming the next Raiders--meddling owner that quality coaches don't want to defer to and work for.

Or if the Oilers had stayed in Houston and not had the horrible lame duck season and the travelling seasons. Does Steve McNair's team go to the Super Bowl--did the adversity help them or did it just delay their development dealing with all the junk?

We will never know. I personally prefer owners that stay in the box and out of the limelight, and hire quality football people.

Insideop
07-15-2006, 11:11 AM
Just because I live in MD now doesnt mean I have always lived in MD.

I wasn't implying you were born and raised in Maryland! Just pointing out to Infantrycak where "some of this stuff" was coming from now. It was meant to be a joke! Thus the lol:

Peace my friend. We are on the same side!:gotexans1 :logo: texanpride

MorKnolle
07-15-2006, 12:08 PM
I doubt if Ferens ever acted independently under Casserly - and Casserly was highly influenced by the wants of the coaching staff. It was a tangled web.

Ferens gained power in January and it will be interesting to watch the working relationship between him and Smith. I don't have a copy of Bob's org chart so I don't know if they have Ferens reporting to Smith or (more likely) having him report in to McNair, parallel to Smith. Sometimes you can't tell from titles, photo size, or name order in the media guide.

NFL Ops Business Managers don't have to be football guys, in fact most teams cap guys and contract negotiators are lawyers and finance guys. Ferens was one of two unanimous selections for best NFL capologist in a poll of 50 NFL executives in 1998.

There is a certain amount of blame that can be assigned to Ferens for many of the bad contracts that were signed in the past four years, but at the same time Casserly and the scouts were likely responsible for informing how good the players were and the ballpark figure that they should be looking/willing to sign the player for, since Ferens isn't a scout of any kind and doesn't know how valuable players supposedly are. Despite many of these drastic overpakd contracts, the Texans have never been in a real bad cap situation like the Titans, Redskins, and some other teams, so at least Ferens has kept us under the cap pretty well.

Kaiser Toro
07-15-2006, 12:15 PM
Despite many of these drastic overpakd contracts, the Texans have never been in a real bad cap situation like the Titans, Redskins, and some other teams, so at least Ferens has kept us under the cap pretty well.

I am dying to see his magic for the 2007 off season with Walker and Wade's dead cap slapping us in the face.

At some point you have to tell your football people you are friggin crazy and negotiate with them rather than with the player's rep for the fiscal health of the team. We have not been in dire straits, but the decisions have been extremely questionable.

Coach C.
07-15-2006, 12:19 PM
KT you are right, but Walker's dead money is on this year is it not? Also, I am we will need to start negotiating certain contracts next year, mainly AJ and Peek. I would not let Peek go without some type of compensation and if AJ can return to form we need to lock him down sooner than later.

aj.
07-15-2006, 12:23 PM
Walker and Wade's 14 million or so in dead money will be dealt with this year and next (exact proportions TBD). And it will be felt. They will be required to take at least a one-year proration this year ($3.5 million) but hopefully they can take more to save space for next year.

Kaiser Toro
07-15-2006, 12:36 PM
Walker and Wade's 14 million or so in dead money will be dealt with this year and next (exact proportions TBD). And it will be felt.

Yep and people wondered why we drafted Mario and brought Wand back from the dead. We will most likely only have room for signing our rookies next year. There is no major contract set to sunset in 2007 other than Cowart that we could possibly cut for a minimal dead cap hit to help with the load.

What is an interesting residual benefit of a bad cap situation is that players such as P Buch are in a very difficult spot. He must perform this year as he will not have much leverage with us or able to have leverage against other teams. I expect him to have a very good year and move on and then we go CB with the first pick.

aj.
07-15-2006, 12:46 PM
Weaver (through '10) and Robaire (through '09) have similar deals to Wade and Walker. But at least they should be able to play a few years - theoretically. Robaire needs to dominate this year or else he will be next. Payne's deal is not as painful.

Robaire and Weaver will account for more than 10 million between them on the '07 cap. Why they paid Weaver all that jack is still a bit puzzling.

Brandon420tx
07-15-2006, 12:49 PM
Yep and people wondered why we drafted Mario and brought Wand back from the dead. We will most likely only have room for signing our rookies next year. There is no major contract set to sunset in 2007 other than Cowart that we could possibly cut for a minimal dead cap hit to help with the load.

What is an interesting residual benefit of a bad cap situation is that players such as P Buch are in a very difficult spot. He must perform this year as he will not have much leverage with us or able to have leverage against other teams. I expect him to have a very good year and move on and then we go CB with the first pick.

Anyone know any CB prospects to keep an eye on?

Kaiser Toro
07-15-2006, 01:00 PM
Anyone know any CB prospects to keep an eye on?

I will be watching Leon Hall this year, but his 5'11'' frame concerns me due to Dunta on the other side. In sports 5'11'' usually means 5'9''. BTW Dunta is listed at 5'10''.

Anyone to add Mork?

CloakNNNdagger
07-15-2006, 02:34 PM
I will be watching Leon Hall this year, but his 5'11'' frame concerns me due to Dunta on the other side. In sports 5'11'' usually means 5'9''. BTW Dunta is listed at 5'10''.

Anyone to add Mork?

__________________________________________

Might want to watch this one:

CB Marcus McCauley, Fresno State… 6-0, 205, SR… McCauley played in the shadow of former Fresno State CB Richard Marshall, a second round pick by Carolina at the 2006 draft, but is an emerging cover corner in his own right. At 6-0, 205, McCauley the size to match-up with most big receivers, plus he has excellent speed and quickness with a nice break on the ball. For good measure, McCauley is also a tremendous leaper who will battle for the ball in the air. McCauley had 4 picks and 11 other pass breakups the past couple of years; he’s also a very good tackler who had 45 stops last fall; at the same time, though, McCauley isn’t all that aggressive coming up to support the run defense, but is an excellent open field tackler.


link (http://www.gbnreport.com/playerstowatch.html)

Wolf
07-15-2006, 02:48 PM
www.houstonprofootball.com

The Texans waived right tackle Todd Wade on Friday, aborting the four years left on a free agent contract he signed with the team in 2004.

Wade, who finished last season on injured reserve, became expendable this offseason following an overhaul of the coaching staff and a subsequent change in offensive philosophy. The oversized tackle, at a mammoth 6'8" and likely more than 320 pounds, was probably not quick and agile enough to succeed in the revised zone blocking scheme being implemented by the team.

Sadly, in letting Wade go with four years remaining on his contract, the Texans will be absorbing $6.67 million in dead money on the salary cap. While the team has the option to push $5 million off to the 2007 cap, it is expected that the team will eat the entire amount on this year's cap.

Replacing Wade at right tackle will be Zach Wiegert, who mostly played right guard over his career in Houston, though he does have ample pro experience at his new assignment. The Texans also drafted two tackles, Eric Winston and Charles Spencer, in the third round of April's college draft. Both rookies, along with free agent addition Ephraim Salaam, will likely challenge to play right tackle should Wiegert get injured sometime this season.

In addition to Wade, the Texans also released two other players on Friday, linebackers Fred Brock and Terry Pierce. Brock was signed as an undrafted free agent in May following his career at Texas Southern, and Pierce had been added to the roster following a three year stint with the Broncos.

aj.
07-15-2006, 03:13 PM
I saw that earlier. I have an email into Keith to see if he has good info on that or if he's just speculating.

Runner
07-17-2006, 01:20 PM
I don't know how Wade's exit physical went, but here is what I found out about injury compensation. Someone more in tune with the CBA might want to check these "facts" in case I'm in error.

If Wade doesn't make a team (I don't know if that means this year or forever) than the Texans owe him and additional $275,000. This is a drop in the bucket compared to his $6.67M of course, but I think it may be in the CBA to provide some support to players who get hurt before earning the big dollars that others get. It seems like a saftey net set up for younger players that highly paid players can also receive under the same circumstances.

wrestler4life
07-17-2006, 01:44 PM
I am curious why we did not try to trade these guys? Were they just no good as bait?

El Tejano
07-17-2006, 02:26 PM
Fat contract + injured = not interested.

TexanFan881
07-17-2006, 04:40 PM
I am curious why we did not try to trade these guys? Were they just no good as bait?

Most likely we wouldn't get anything for Wade because of his huge contract. I'm sure most NFL teams that were interested in him knew that we were considering releasing him and they would just wait until he got cut. Pierce and Brock were worth next to nothing to NFL teams except maybe a slim shot at making the team. We wouldn't be able to get anything for them.