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View Full Version : Im so glad we picked Mario Williams!


TK_Gamer
07-04-2006, 04:59 PM
In Light of all the ramblings of Carr skeptic/homer threads, Ithought I would try something different. Lets truly evaluate our options we had for the offseason/draft this year. im not gonna go into texans/Carr past history too much we all know it, they sucked. ok, Bush, Lienart, Young, Wiliams, Hawk, D'brick, personally I think these were the valid top picks in the draft we had to choose from.

Bush: would taking bush have stopped Carr from getting sacked? I dont think so, Ithink we allready have more than enough back in DD, and we have a pro bowl kick returner also, so dont think we needed to waste ALOT of salary cap
on Bush.

Lienart: decent drop back/pocket passer, but i think he would have got sacked more than Carr, he just would have run OOB less, and thrown more picks. So I think we do better without another learning curve QB project

Hawk: 1 helluva good LB, but we have a surplus of good LB's never been our problem.

Young: special player, biggest weakness is he is as unorthodox as they come with so many intangibles. throws 3/4 sidearm, most sidearm qb's have to alter their delivery in the pros because the trajectory leaves it open to deflection at the LOS. Young got around this in a unique way. Texas basicly designed their offense around him. he had to throw from the shotgun so he could be far enough from LOS to loop the passes over the defense. then if he dint have an open guy. each pass play became basicly a draw play with Young as the back. I dont think any NFL team is gonna alter there offense enough to make young effective. so he will most likely work on his delivery from the backup qb spot for at least 2 years. Iwish him luck. but I dont think he would have helped us enough to warrant #1 pick

D'Brick: physicaly gifted good technique for a colllege lineman, but rarely do offensive lineman warrant a #1 pick for maturity reasons.

enter Mario: fills one of our biggest needs as bonafide pass rusher, good size, speed, agilty, and durable . my top pick to help the team the most

I guess yer saying , "whats yer point" my point is since mario was our best choice for draft, and there were no viable options IE, major upgrades in free agency, like him or not we will have to play with David Carr one more year, so lets get on with it and quit arguing , Lets get some sacks , Win some games, and worry about who starts at QB next year, cuz this year its David carr and there wasnt a whole lot they could have done about it

GO TEXANS!

Kaiser Toro
07-04-2006, 05:01 PM
:mario: :fireball: :bowser: :mario:

Texan Asylum
07-04-2006, 05:21 PM
Count myself in this opinion as well.

TheCD
07-04-2006, 05:59 PM
Bush: would taking bush have stopped Carr from getting sacked? I dont think so, Ithink we allready have more than enough back in DD, and we have a pro bowl kick returner also, so dont think we needed to waste ALOT of salary cap
on Bush.

Young: special player, biggest weakness is he is as unorthodox as they come with so many intangibles. throws 3/4 sidearm, most sidearm qb's have to alter their delivery in the pros because the trajectory leaves it open to deflection at the LOS. Young got around this in a unique way. Texas basicly designed their offense around him. he had to throw from the shotgun so he could be far enough from LOS to loop the passes over the defense. then if he dint have an open guy. each pass play became basicly a draw play with Young as the back. I dont think any NFL team is gonna alter there offense enough to make young effective. so he will most likely work on his delivery from the backup qb spot for at least 2 years. Iwish him luck. but I dont think he would have helped us enough to warrant #1 pick


I agree with you perfectly here.

The problem I have with everyone saying Bush would reduce sacks is that they don't have proof. Will he spread the defense by motioning him into the slot? Yes. But good defenses won't worry about him as much as everyone says. I call this the "Michael Vick" syndrome. If you're not experienced with playing against Vick and knowing how he does things, you're going to worry so much that you'll over- or underdo you assignments so that you won't be caught off-guard. Yet if you look at the Panthers and Bucs who play him twice a year...they have a proven method for stopping him. He just doesn't have much success against those defenses. I think the first few games of the year that he plays teams will be worried, but then they'll ease off as the season goes on and they realize he's just a mortal.

The problem I have with Young coming here is that he doesn't provide anything Carr doesn't. Yes he has legs...but Carr's been in the top 5 for QB rushers the past 3 years, he's in pretty good company. Likewise, developing him would have taken a while as well, and I wouldn't have all been surprised if 4 years down the line we had people saying "See, I told you he'd be a bust like Carr" and "He just needs a chance to shine, like Carr deserved". I could be wrong, but that's my opinion.

SF49erFaithful
07-04-2006, 06:40 PM
IMO i think you guys should have taken Bush. Yes, i know RB wasn't a need, and you guys already have DD. But, Bush is a very rare player, who you could probably line up to do many different things. I also think if you guys decided not to take Bush, to maybe trade down a little to take Ferguson. Williams is still an amazing prospect though. I'm just totally happy SF picked up Davis/Lawson!!!!:redtowel: :redtowel: :yahoo: :yahoo:

B.Diddy
07-04-2006, 07:01 PM
I disagree with you 49er i feel we took the best player even though i was one of the V. Young Homers (how could you not be the guys a winner) .Mario Williams was the best player to take and to realize why you have to look no farther than our divisonal bully the COLTS. Even if we had Reggie Bush we would not out score the high Powered colts, looking at two of their loses last season the only way they were beaten was the pass rush (shaun Meriman, Jerry Porter ect) without pressure payton manning will eat you up.
My second reason is we are useing the bronco offense and we all know just about any running back will thrive in that system.

SF49erFaithful
07-05-2006, 02:12 AM
I disagree with you 49er i feel we took the best player even though i was one of the V. Young Homers (how could you not be the guys a winner) .Mario Williams was the best player to take and to realize why you have to look no farther than our divisonal bully the COLTS. Even if we had Reggie Bush we would not out score the high Powered colts, looking at two of their loses last season the only way they were beaten was the pass rush (shaun Meriman, Jerry Porter ect) without pressure payton manning will eat you up.
My second reason is we are useing the bronco offense and we all know just about any running back will thrive in that system.
That is a good point you bring up about getting a pass rush to beat Indy, as it is also one of the keys to winning most games. But i still feel that you guys should have taken Bush because he is a player that you can do so many things creative with. Also, i believe the pass rush could be addressed by the Texans later in the draft with someone like Hali or Kiwanuka(if you traded up a little bit that is) even though Williams will probably be a better player.

bigbrewster2000
07-05-2006, 07:41 AM
That is a good point you bring up about getting a pass rush to beat Indy, as it is also one of the keys to winning most games. But i still feel that you guys should have taken Bush because he is a player that you can do so many things creative with. Also, i believe the pass rush could be addressed by the Texans later in the draft with someone like Hali or Kiwanuka(if you traded up a little bit that is) even though Williams will probably be a better player.
The Texans actually tried more than once to trade down and never had any takers. They were also considering moving up into the 1st round again(so I have heard and been told) but, it was for the possibility to take Deangelo Williams supposedly. The biggest reason why they didn't move up is that they did not want to give up any picks. IMO. Plus our 2nd and 3rd rounders were great.

beerlover
07-05-2006, 08:13 AM
Has Reggie Bush signed yet? this was the sticking point that swung the Texans over to Mario in the first place. concerning any trades once signed what incentive would there have been to trade him? things all happen for a reason, all these top draftees should become great NFL players for their respective teams, maybe Bush can help rebuild New Orleans- that would be a great thing. If Mario Williams becomes a proto-typical DE like Bruce Smith I'll take it :fireball: :bowser: :mario:

nunusguy
07-05-2006, 08:39 AM
Has Reggie Bush signed yet? this was the sticking point that swung the Texans over to Mario in the first place.
Yea, this is my belief to. I think there's a good chance that McNair & the
Texans got their feathers ruffled because Bush was not very responsive about
the questions surrounding the free rental house his family had. They may have even felt the Bush lied thru his teeth about the controversy when they questioned him. Right up to that, he was probably their guy.
It remains to be seen if the Texans or Bush made the biggest mistake in how
they handled things and the decisions they made right before and on Draft Day.

Frills
07-05-2006, 09:09 AM
Simple.

Without help on D, Bush wouldn't see the field.

An offense with 11 top picks is negated by a 15:00 differential in ToP

edo783
07-05-2006, 09:22 AM
Yea, this is my belief to. I think there's a good chance that McNair & the
Texans got their feathers ruffled because Bush was not very responsive about
the questions surrounding the free rental house his family had. They may have even felt the Bush lied thru his teeth about the controversy when they questioned him. Right up to that, he was probably their guy.
It remains to be seen if the Texans or Bush made the biggest mistake in how
they handled things and the decisions they made right before and on Draft Day.

Add to that that Lloyd Lakes, a known gangster, is the one that funded all of the money that flowed to RB and family, and I would have been very surprised if McNair would have come anywhere around that type of situation.

HOU-TEX
07-05-2006, 09:29 AM
Simple.

Without help on D, Bush wouldn't see the field.

An offense with 11 top picks is negated by a 15:00 differential in ToP

I was a Bush beleiver myself before the draft. Now that we've drafted Mario I'm kind of looking for ward to this season even more. Although I think some of us might be setting ourselves up for some disappointment. I want him to succeed just as much as anyone else but just remember he's a rookie. I'll be expecting some mistakes from him, but in the end let's hope he comes out on top. The fact that he's a mammoth, a very quick one at that, is in his favor.:bowdown:

:gotexans1

trane
07-05-2006, 09:50 AM
Bush: would taking bush have stopped Carr from getting sacked? I dont think so, Ithink we allready have more than enough back in DD, and we have a pro bowl kick returner also, so dont think we needed to waste ALOT of salary cap
on Bush.

Hawk: 1 helluva good LB, but we have a surplus of good LB's never been our problem.

Young: special player, biggest weakness is he is as unorthodox as they come with so many intangibles. throws 3/4 sidearm, most sidearm qb's have to alter their delivery in the pros because the trajectory leaves it open to deflection at the LOS. Young got around this in a unique way. Texas basicly designed their offense around him. he had to throw from the shotgun so he could be far enough from LOS to loop the passes over the defense. then if he dint have an open guy. each pass play became basicly a draw play with Young as the back. I dont think any NFL team is gonna alter there offense enough to make young effective. so he will most likely work on his delivery from the backup qb spot for at least 2 years. Iwish him luck. but I dont think he would have helped us enough to warrant #1 pick

D'Brick: physicaly gifted good technique for a colllege lineman, but rarely do offensive lineman warrant a #1 pick for maturity reasons.

enter Mario: fills one of our biggest needs as bonafide pass rusher, good size, speed, agilty, and durable . my top pick to help the team the most

GO TEXANS![/QUOTE]

Your thread almost changed my mind. Although I have come to agree with the Mario pick, I disagree with your thoughts on the players we passed on.

Bush: I think Bush would have helped the offense tremendously with his speed and versatility. Although we need a pass rush, we also could not put points on the board. The only knocks I had on Bush is that I think he will be injury prone and his contract demands would have been over the top.

Hawk: He would have ultimately had more of an impact on the defense than Mario. Plus he has more leadership ability than Mario. Mario seems to be too laidback. There was a surplus of LB's but a shortage of "good" ones. The good news is that Demeco Ryans will provide the same spark that Hawk would have.

Young: He will be a superstar in this league. He does have flaws but with the right coaching and his work ethic...those flaws will be quickly diminished. What still doesn't make sense to me is that if the Kube's offensive scheme calls for the QB to scramble. why pass on one of the best scramblers of all time. I guess this speaks to Carr's potential rather than Vince's faults.

D-Brick: Would not have been a bad pick if we could have made a trade with the Jets.

Overall, I think Mario is probably the safest pick and he should be a good player. However, when this draft is evaluated years down the road, Bush, Young, and Hawk will have proven to be the better picks.

MorKnolle
07-05-2006, 03:31 PM
Has Reggie Bush signed yet? this was the sticking point that swung the Texans over to Mario in the first place. concerning any trades once signed what incentive would there have been to trade him? things all happen for a reason, all these top draftees should become great NFL players for their respective teams, maybe Bush can help rebuild New Orleans- that would be a great thing. If Mario Williams becomes a proto-typical DE like Bruce Smith I'll take it :fireball: :bowser: :mario:

Signability did not alter their decision to take Mario, they've said that numerous times and I've heard rumors that they had a deal just about worked out with Reggie but decided they wanted Mario more, and Reggie said in an interview right after the draft last he knew the Texans were going to take him and negotiations were going well, then they changed their minds.

SF49erFaithful
07-05-2006, 04:20 PM
The Texans actually tried more than once to trade down and never had any takers. They were also considering moving up into the 1st round again(so I have heard and been told) but, it was for the possibility to take Deangelo Williams supposedly. The biggest reason why they didn't move up is that they did not want to give up any picks. IMO. Plus our 2nd and 3rd rounders were great.
If it is true they tried trading down from the #1 overall pick, they were probably asking for a ridiculous amount (Probably along the lines of what NO were asking for when Bush fell to them) BTW, is it just me or is this the most talented draft class you guys have ever seen?

B.Diddy
07-05-2006, 04:22 PM
I agree in three to four years this draft class will run the league

trane
07-05-2006, 04:33 PM
BTW, is it just me or is this the most talented draft class you guys have ever seen?[/QUOTE]

I think it will be. What makes it interesting is that it is a class not heavy on a particular position like the years when a lot of good QB's come out. There is a lot of talent at different positions much like the draft of '89 (Aikman, Barry and Deion Sanders, and Derrick Thomas...Mandrich was the bust). I think Mario,Bush,Vince, D Brick,Hawk, and Vernon Davis will all be Pro Bowlers....at the very least.

TexansSeminole
07-05-2006, 05:09 PM
Im not sure if its the best draft class ever, yet again that is a hard statement to give any draft class. We would have to wait 10 years to give an accurate answer for that.

I do agree that there were alot of very talented prospects this year, more than I have seen in the last 5 years.

AFD1717
07-05-2006, 05:15 PM
What may make this turn out to be a truly great draft class is that we have a different system than most other teams in the nfl. While other teams compete for players that fit their systems, guys who fit ours slip through the cracks. Mario, D-Wreck, and the linemen should all be good (or great) pros, but it will be guys like Daniels and Lundy that put this class over the top.

TheOgre
07-05-2006, 05:18 PM
[The Texans] were also considering moving up into the 1st round again(so I have heard and been told) but, it was for the possibility to take Deangelo Williams supposedly. The biggest reason why they didn't move up is that they did not want to give up any picks. IMO.

I think we had a trade in place with Tampa Bay or some other team that was picking right after the Patroits. We would have made the trade if he had still been there. I agree, though, it probably worked out for the best getting Ryans and Winston.

MorKnolle
07-05-2006, 10:18 PM
I think we had a trade in place with Tampa Bay or some other team that was picking right after the Patroits. We would have made the trade if he had still been there. I agree, though, it probably worked out for the best getting Ryans and Winston.

I think the trade was going to be with the Bears and it sounded like they were trying to give up their 2nd and 4th round picks for the #26, so they would have given up on DeMeco Ryans and Owen Daniels to get DeAngelo Williams, but the Bills jumped in and gave the Bears a 2nd and 3rd to take a guy (McCargo) that most likely would have been available with their 2nd round pick anyways.

DominickDavisFan76
07-05-2006, 11:32 PM
Umm....Last time I checked isnt the Atlanta Falcons offense based on Michael Vick running and passing on the West Coast Offense?

threetoedpete
07-06-2006, 12:54 AM
Im not sure if its the best draft class ever, yet again that is a hard statement to give any draft class. We would have to wait 10 years to give an accurate answer for that.

I do agree that there were alot of very talented prospects this year, more than I have seen in the last 5 years.

Well I'll say, some say not, but for my money this was the deepest draft in a very long time. We'll see what the cuts look like come August. I'm guessing a lot of the day two guys will make rosters. More than in average years.They will be heard from in the near future. Wasn't just the top end of the draft the draft was deep... way into day two clubs were getting great value for their picks. Even on this board we've had rantings and ravings over the fourth round choice. Tells me there was some tallent floating around out there.

bigbrewster2000
07-06-2006, 08:24 AM
If it is true they tried trading down from the #1 overall pick, they were probably asking for a ridiculous amount (Probably along the lines of what NO were asking for when Bush fell to them) BTW, is it just me or is this the most talented draft class you guys have ever seen?
Well it apears to be very talented, we will se in the future. And the Texans actually had no calls come to them. They called back several times with no interest whatsoever. Oh well. While it would have been nice to see Bush, he isn't on our team and Mario is so I want to see this kid blow up. I am not really thinking about Bush anymore.

DocBar
07-06-2006, 12:09 PM
This is probably the deepest draft I've seen in my 25 years of watching them. I still can't believe we picked up Ryans, Spencer AND Winston without having to perform draftday backflips. All we had to do was stand pat and we netted our best draft by far. All of the MW/RB discussion will fall to the wayside the 1st time MW slobberknockers some poor QB (I hope it's McNabb) into a dull fog of pain and confusion. Maybe MW can score as many TD's this year as RB( RB isn't known as a goal line threat...yet). How sweet would that be? Defensive TD's are like sugar and I have a sweet tooth.
:fireball: :bowser: :stirpot:

thunderkyss
07-06-2006, 01:57 PM
Your thread almost changed my mind. Although I have come to agree with the Mario pick, I disagree with your thoughts on the players we passed on.

Bush: I think Bush would have helped the offense tremendously with his speed and versatility. Although we need a pass rush, we also could not put points on the board. The only knocks I had on Bush is that I think he will be injury prone and his contract demands would have been over the top.


We already had Moulds, and Putzier...... why would we think we needed another offensive weapon?? Plus we've got Mathis & Armstrong, who are expected to step it up if they want to stay on the team.

And the biggest reason we couldn't put points on the board, is because we didn't try....


Hawk: He would have ultimately had more of an impact on the defense than Mario. Plus he has more leadership ability than Mario. Mario seems to be too laidback. There was a surplus of LB's but a shortage of "good" ones. The good news is that Demeco Ryans will provide the same spark that Hawk would have.


I don't see the "ultimately more impact"


Young: He will be a superstar in this league. He does have flaws but with the right coaching and his work ethic...those flaws will be quickly diminished. What still doesn't make sense to me is that if the Kube's offensive scheme calls for the QB to scramble. why pass on one of the best scramblers of all time. I guess this speaks to Carr's potential rather than Vince's faults.


& it looks like Vince will be starting sooner, rather than later.....



D-Brick: Would not have been a bad pick if we could have made a trade with the Jets.


I still don't think he is what Kubiak is looking for....... if Kubes thought he could get Spencer in the third, he might not have had any value fro DBrick so early..... then getting Winston as well........ damn.



Overall, I think Mario is probably the safest pick and he should be a good player. However, when this draft is evaluated years down the road, Bush, Young, and Hawk will have proven to be the better picks.

If Mario gets double digit sacks this year, then there will be no question. Especially if our defense ends up in the top half of NFL Ds.

I'm fine with the pick, two things I wanted.

under no circumstances could we pick Reggie Bush, & we'd better not be looking for a QB 2 years from now.

AFD1717
07-06-2006, 06:07 PM
And the biggest reason we couldn't put points on the board, is because we didn't try....
Amen.

AFD1717
07-07-2006, 10:04 AM
The biggest reason I love the Williams pick isn't necessarily because I am convinced that Mario will be the better player (I'm leaning that way, but we really don't know yet). The reason I love this pick is because it shows some swagger. Kubiak really believes that his system works if all of the players buy into it. I love the message it sends to his players - "Get on board and we'll win. No one individual is bigger than the team."

DocBar
07-07-2006, 10:07 AM
The biggest reason I love the Williams pick isn't necessarily because I am convinced that Mario will be the better player (I'm leaning that way, but we really don't know yet). The reason I love this pick is because it shows some swagger. Kubiak really believes that his system works if all of the players buy into it. I love the message it sends to his players - "Get on board and we'll win. No one individual is bigger than the team."
That's kind of the way I'm thinking about this new staff. The bottom line will W's & L's and the productive people will be on the field regardless of draft position.

mapleleaf
07-07-2006, 07:37 PM
The only advantage is that Mario Williams might be able to sack the other QB and get some revenge from those teams that sacked Carr.

Texans_Chick
07-07-2006, 09:18 PM
Young: He will be a superstar in this league. He does have flaws but with the right coaching and his work ethic...those flaws will be quickly diminished. What still doesn't make sense to me is that if the Kube's offensive scheme calls for the QB to scramble. why pass on one of the best scramblers of all time. I guess this speaks to Carr's potential rather than Vince's faults.

D-Brick: Would not have been a bad pick if we could have made a trade with the Jets.

Overall, I think Mario is probably the safest pick and he should be a good player. However, when this draft is evaluated years down the road, Bush, Young, and Hawk will have proven to be the better picks.


Young I think will be a great player. The Texans situation was not ideal. Year 1 of a new offense when the owner wants to win right away is not a great situation. The reads in this offense are fairly involved--Young's running ability is more than the Kubiak offense really needs. New system and rookie QB with a lot of expectations and a defense needing help might be too much.

I think D-Brick would be a waste in a Denver zone blocking system. It is more of a shared responsibility line versus one that relies on individual effort.

DocBar
07-07-2006, 09:48 PM
Young I think will be a great player. The Texans situation was not ideal. Year 1 of a new offense when the owner wants to win right away is not a great situation. The reads in this offense are fairly involved--Young's running ability is more than the Kubiak offense really needs. New system and rookie QB with a lot of expectations and a defense needing help might be too much.

I think D-Brick would be a waste in a Denver zone blocking system. It is more of a shared responsibility line versus one that relies on individual effort.
Why do you think VY will be a great player? All the odds are stacked against him. He will be a novelty and gimmick guy just like Cordell /sucks/ Stewart and Michael Vick. Teams will figure him out and he will fizzle out. Running backs run the ball in the NFL. QB's THROW the ball or HAND OFF the ball to RB's. The Wishbone and Option Offenses never made it in the NFL for a reason: they work against lessr opponents and there is no such thing(along the lines of lesser college opponents) in the NFL. There's also a reason the Texans got no takers on the 1st puck of the draft. There was WAY too much depth amd VY and/or RB wasn't worth it. IMHO, VY will stink up the league for a few years then be a UT analyst on game day. No more special that 85% of the players drafted each year.

DocBar
07-07-2006, 09:50 PM
Other than the VY thing, I think you do a great job with the blog and posts.

Texans_Chick
07-07-2006, 10:13 PM
Why do you think VY will be a great player? All the odds are stacked against him. He will be a novelty and gimmick guy just like Cordell /sucks/ Stewart and Michael Vick. Teams will figure him out and he will fizzle out. Running backs run the ball in the NFL. QB's THROW the ball or HAND OFF the ball to RB's. The Wishbone and Option Offenses never made it in the NFL for a reason: they work against lessr opponents and there is no such thing(along the lines of lesser college opponents) in the NFL. There's also a reason the Texans got no takers on the 1st puck of the draft. There was WAY too much depth amd VY and/or RB wasn't worth it. IMHO, VY will stink up the league for a few years then be a UT analyst on game day. No more special that 85% of the players drafted each year.

Not worth debating any more.

It is based on my eyes and the only stats I have to work with:

Vince Young's college stats compared to other college players (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=17246)

I don't think he is easily compared to anyone else. With most of the guys he has been compared to, his college stats are more favorable.

If the Titans don't ruin him, I think he could be a really good player in the league for a long time.

TexanFan881
07-07-2006, 10:52 PM
It's great to see Mario in a Texans uni :redtowel: It's also great to see Mario in Houston :texflag:

http://www.kwtx.com/home/headlines/3286781.html

Hookem Horns
07-07-2006, 11:13 PM
It's funny how some of you point out VY's sidearm throwing motion however seem to forget that was the knock on Carr when he came out. Four years later and he still has that funky sidearm motion.

That being said, I am not convinced that funky motion that BOTH Carr and Young have is as big a problem as many make it out to be.

TexansLucky13
07-07-2006, 11:47 PM
As someone who has seen Mario in person, I completely understand the pick. He is a monster, and they say he can run a 4.4?? I feel sorry for Peyton.

Besides, I am very defense-oriented. I would take a great defense over a great offense, hands down.

"Oh...I'm afraid the deflector shield (Mario Williams) will be quite operational when your friends (Reggie Bush, Vince Young and Peyton Manning) arrive."

-Emperor Palpatine

DocBar
07-08-2006, 07:23 AM
As someone who has seen Mario in person, I completely understand the pick. He is a monster, and they say he can run a 4.4?? I feel sorry for Peyton.

Besides, I am very defense-oriented. I would take a great defense over a great offense, hands down.

"Oh...I'm afraid the deflector shield (Mario Williams) will be quite operational when your friends (Reggie Bush, Vince Young and Peyton Manning) arrive."

-Emperor Palpatine
I can't wait to see this guy in action. I agree with you about the D. I'm going to do some SB research and see whether great O or great D has led to more SB's.I'm leaning towards D right now, but there's the whole 49ers, Rams and Broncos thing. Should be interesting.
EDIT: Heres a cool link for anyone wondering the same thing. http://www.superbowl.com/history/stats

DocBar
07-08-2006, 07:26 AM
Not worth debating any more.

It is based on my eyes and the only stats I have to work with:

Vince Young's college stats compared to other college players (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=17246)

I don't think he is easily compared to anyone else. With most of the guys he has been compared to, his college stats are more favorable.

If the Titans don't ruin him, I think he could be a really good player in the league for a long time.
Sorry about going on a rant. I haven't really weighed in on the VY thing and I guess now I've said my piece. The stats vs talent thing has run its course on another thread also. great posts.

MorKnolle
07-08-2006, 10:52 AM
I can't wait to see this guy in action. I agree with you about the D. I'm going to do some SB research and see whether great O or great D has led to more SB's.I'm leaning towards D right now, but there's the whole 49ers, Rams and Broncos thing. Should be interesting.
EDIT: Heres a cool link for anyone wondering the same thing. http://www.superbowl.com/history/stats

I already did one a while ago, check it out. Defense appears to be extremely important to winning championships.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=22907&page=2

DocBar
07-08-2006, 11:02 AM
I already did one a while ago, check it out. Defense appears to be extremely important to winning championships.

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=22907&page=2
Cool. I figured someone had probably done it. Thanks for the link.

SF49erFaithful
07-08-2006, 02:40 PM
As someone who has seen Mario in person, I completely understand the pick. He is a monster, and they say he can run a 4.4?? I feel sorry for Peyton.

Besides, I am very defense-oriented. I would take a great defense over a great offense, hands down.

"Oh...I'm afraid the deflector shield (Mario Williams) will be quite operational when your friends (Reggie Bush, Vince Young and Peyton Manning) arrive."

-Emperor Palpatine
Mario is a great athlete but he doesn't run a 4.4.......he is very fast for his size though and it is remarkable for someone his size to run 4.66

DocBar
07-08-2006, 02:44 PM
Mario is a great athlete but he doesn't run a 4.4.......he is very fast for his size though and it is remarkable for someone his size to run 4.66
I could probably hit that in the 40 inch dash. Combine that with my 4 inch vertical leap and bench pressing a soft pillow 35 times, maybe the Texans will give me a look!!!!
:bananasplit: :whip: :bananasplit:

DocBar
07-08-2006, 02:55 PM
Mario Williams

Position: Defensive End
Drafted: Round 1, 1st Overall
Height: 6'7"
Weight: 290
College: North Carolina State
Birthdate: January 31, 1985
NFL Comparison: Julius Peppers
Strengths: Mario Williams has prototypical dimensions for a defensive end. He is tall with a large wingspan and a frame to add more weight if needed. He has both the strength to bull rush blockers and the quickness to run around them.

Williams possesses good ball skills to where he could drop back in zone blitzes. Has an explosive first step and the speed to create mismatches and wreak havoc in the backfield. He already has a variety of pass rush moves which will make him tougher to block. Williams has the size and pursuit ability to be effective against the run.

Areas of Concern: While Julius Peppers, the player he is most often compared to, was a holy terror in college, Williams has only terrorized in some games and been minimized in others. 10.5 of his 14.5 sacks in 2005 came against three teams (Wake Forest, Southern Mississippi and Maryland). Perhaps his best college performance was a three-sack day in 2004 against Florida State. Scouts say he must be more consistent, show hustle on plays away from his side of the field and develop better hand technique.

2006 Expectations: Williams is expected to fit into the rotation at defensive end immediately. Due to his size, he should be capable of contributing both on run downs and passing downs.

by Bob Hulsey

YEAR G TAK TFL SACK FF FR
2005 12 62 24.0 14.5 1 1
2004 11 57 15.0 6.0 0 0
2003 13 56 13.0 5.0 2 1
TOTALS 36 175 52.0 25.5 3 2



Mario Williams
Home

Return to The War Room

SF49erFaithful
07-08-2006, 04:02 PM
I could probably hit that in the 40 inch dash. Combine that with my 4 inch vertical leap and bench pressing a soft pillow 35 times, maybe the Texans will give me a look!!!!
:bananasplit: :whip: :bananasplit:
LOL......like Spongebob when he lifts up the stick with "2! Count 'em! 2......marshmellows..."

thunderkyss
07-08-2006, 04:06 PM
Why do you think VY will be a great player? All the odds are stacked against him. He will be a novelty and gimmick guy just like Cordell /sucks/ Stewart and Michael Vick. Teams will figure him out and he will fizzle out. Running backs run the ball in the NFL. QB's THROW the ball or HAND OFF the ball to RB's. The Wishbone and Option Offenses never made it in the NFL for a reason: they work against lessr opponents and there is no such thing(along the lines of lesser college opponents) in the NFL. There's also a reason the Texans got no takers on the 1st puck of the draft. There was WAY too much depth amd VY and/or RB wasn't worth it. IMHO, VY will stink up the league for a few years then be a UT analyst on game day. No more special that 85% of the players drafted each year.


John Elway, Randall Cunningham, Donavan McNabb, and Dante Culpepper, just to name a few. Even Aaron Brooks are good examples of how beneficial and succesful your club can be with athletic quarterbacks...... especially when they have shown an undestanding & dedication to the passing game. They've all been succesful on teams with little talent around them. I'm not saying they never had talent around them, but even in years with little talent, they were successful. Elway, and McNabb have got their teams into conference Championships with no talent around them to speak of. Brooks is an idiot, but he's had some successful years, with only one reciever(Joe Horn) and no serious help from a runningback..... etc....

Vince has already shown that he understands he has to become a better passer...... his passing stats are equal to Matt lienarts, when you factor in attempts, completions, and the fact that Vince didn't play 4 quarters very often his senior year..... if he had, he would have thrown for more than 4000 yards against the big twelve......... this is not speculation, it's extrapolation of his current stats...

If you were an NFL coach, you don't have to convince him that throwing the football is better, more effiecient for his team, the same way that Vick has still got to learn.

& while we think Vick is a failure, as a "quarterback" he wins football games, put people in the stands, and gains fans from all around the country..... watch a GreenBay vs Atlanta game in Greenbay, I gaurantee you will see at least 5 Vick Jerseys.......

DocBar
07-08-2006, 04:26 PM
John Elway, Randall Cunningham, Donavan McNabb, and Dante Culpepper, just to name a few. Even Aaron Brooks are good examples of how beneficial and succesful your club can be with athletic quarterbacks...... especially when they have shown an undestanding & dedication to the passing game. They've all been succesful on teams with little talent around them. I'm not saying they never had talent around them, but even in years with little talent, they were successful. Elway, and McNabb have got their teams into conference Championships with no talent around them to speak of. Brooks is an idiot, but he's had some successful years, with only one reciever(Joe Horn) and no serious help from a runningback..... etc....

Vince has already shown that he understands he has to become a better passer...... his passing stats are equal to Matt lienarts, when you factor in attempts, completions, and the fact that Vince didn't play 4 quarters very often his senior year..... if he had, he would have thrown for more than 4000 yards against the big twelve......... this is not speculation, it's extrapolation of his current stats...

If you were an NFL coach, you don't have to convince him that throwing the football is better, more effiecient for his team, the same way that Vick has still got to learn.

& while we think Vick is a failure, as a "quarterback" he wins football games, put people in the stands, and gains fans from all around the country..... watch a GreenBay vs Atlanta game in Greenbay, I gaurantee you will see at least 5 Vick Jerseys.......
I agree with most of what youre saying, but VY seems more in line with Vick than any other QB. All the others you named used the THREAT of scrambling to enhance their passing game. Vick and VY do the opposite. Much has been said about VY's ability to absorb a playbook and be able to play in a Pro offense. If he can learn that, he might do well, but I'm betting against it. And Vick doesn't have stats to show he wins games. Falcons are 40-39-1 since '01. He hasn't played a full season either. The NFL just isn't suited for that type of QB. ALL the players are elite at that level, unlike college. And lastly, NFL history is littered with talented college players that never panned out in the pros. Just MHO, though.

thunderkyss
07-08-2006, 04:40 PM
I agree with most of what youre saying, but VY seems more in line with Vick than any other QB. All the others you named used the THREAT of scrambling to enhance their passing game. Vick and VY do the opposite. Much has been said about VY's ability to absorb a playbook and be able to play in a Pro offense. If he can learn that, he might do well, but I'm betting against it. And Vick doesn't have stats to show he wins games. Falcons are 40-39-1 since '01. He hasn't played a full season either. The NFL just isn't suited for that type of QB. ALL the players are elite at that level, unlike college. And lastly, NFL history is littered with talented college players that never panned out in the pros. Just MHO, though.


Look a little closer at the stats...... I don't have them with me, but with Vick, they win........ without him they loose....... true he hasn't played a full season, and believe me I am not a MikeVick fan. I think it was absurd for the Falcons to sign him for 10 years, $100 mil............. insanity.... when he's yet to play a full season.

But you haven't watched either of these guys play, if you think Vick is the closest comparison we've got for Vince. Like Texans_Chick says, you can't really compare him to anyone. But, IMHO if you do compare him to anyone, it would have to be McNabb, except Vince is a better passer coming out of college.

DocBar
07-08-2006, 04:52 PM
Look a little closer at the stats...... I don't have them with me, but with Vick, they win........ without him they loose....... true he hasn't played a full season, and believe me I am not a MikeVick fan. I think it was absurd for the Falcons to sign him for 10 years, $100 mil............. insanity.... when he's yet to play a full season.

But you haven't watched either of these guys play, if you think Vick is the closest comparison we've got for Vince. Like Texans_Chick says, you can't really compare him to anyone. But, IMHO if you do compare him to anyone, it would have to be McNabb, except Vince is a better passer coming out of college.
That's what makes these boards fun. I just don't see it with VY. Great collegiate athelete, fair to middling pro.

TK_Gamer
07-09-2006, 02:32 AM
I did see vince young play, and he did the same thing every time on passing downs, drop back after shotgun/snap check off 2 targets watch lb's for hole to run thru. the nfl will pick up his paterns quick and lay him out. imho

TexansLucky13
07-09-2006, 02:37 AM
Mario is a great athlete but he doesn't run a 4.4.......he is very fast for his size though and it is remarkable for someone his size to run 4.66

Yea, I saw that today and meant to change it, but I don't feel like it. :tease:

WiiBrawler
07-09-2006, 10:48 AM
Oh yeah since we love mario williams so much look what the astros fans said about him
http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-astros&msg=52100.1&ctx=0

really clueless and classless fools, thats why I post here

Tx'nFanLostInSkinCountry
07-09-2006, 11:01 AM
That just wrong. Then their most likely cowgirl fans. And the cowgirls can have them. Too bad their 'stros fans. That just wrong.

DocBar
07-09-2006, 12:03 PM
After all the VY talk on a MW thread and comparisons to Michael Vick, I thought I'd share this from the Profootballtalk websites All-Turd Team:

Michael Vick, QB, Falcons: Grossly overrated player who allegedly gave a girlfriend herpes. If only the ability to pass from the pocket were an STD

Ouch!!! That has to sting a little!!!

TK_Gamer
07-09-2006, 01:17 PM
After all the VY talk on a MW thread and comparisons to Michael Vick, I thought I'd share this from the Profootballtalk websites All-Turd Team:

Michael Vick, QB, Falcons: Grossly overrated player who allegedly gave a girlfriend herpes. If only the ability to pass from the pocket were an STD

Ouch!!! That has to sting a little!!!

thanks for bringing that up, its partially the reason i made this thread , not to talk about mario williams, but to talk about and compare the choices, Iactually wanted to also talk about the FA choices we had if we wanted to go another direction with Carr. most of us agree now or are at least optimistic that mario was a good pick draft wise and sice after lienart and cutler there were no "upgrade" picks for QB. what about FA? personally I think Kubiak saw all this too and decided keepin carr was the best choice. oppinions?

DocBar
07-09-2006, 02:42 PM
thanks for bringing that up, its partially the reason i made this thread , not to talk about mario williams, but to talk about and compare the choices, Iactually wanted to also talk about the FA choices we had if we wanted to go another direction with Carr. most of us agree now or are at least optimistic that mario was a good pick draft wise and sice after lienart and cutler there were no "upgrade" picks for QB. what about FA? personally I think Kubiak saw all this too and decided keepin carr was the best choice. oppinions?
Glad I could be of service, however unintentionally it was. LOL

bayoudreamn
07-10-2006, 12:47 AM
......... this is not speculation, it's extrapolation of his current stats...


.......[/QUOTE]

Extrapolation?

bayoudreamn
07-10-2006, 01:00 AM
......... this is not speculation, it's extrapolation of his current stats...


.......

Extrapolation?[/QUOTE]

Extrapolation and speculation are synonyms.

DocBar
07-10-2006, 02:02 AM
Extrapolation?

Extrapolation and speculation are synonyms.[/QUOTE]

DocBar
07-10-2006, 05:08 AM
YA"LL would be WAY better off with BUSH.
Mario will not make the difference that BUSH will for the Saints.
We already have a kick returner...when he gets healthy. What was Bush's contract again? OH!!!! That's right...he hasn't signed one yet. Between Deuce and Reggie, you should have the RB's to take the load off of Bree's shoulder(s). I just don't see the Saints going anywhere this year...unless it's San Antonio.
:stirpot:

bigtex77
07-10-2006, 05:23 AM
I'll take my chances with Mario, we'll be fine.

thunderkyss
07-10-2006, 07:49 AM
Oh yeah since we love mario williams so much look what the astros fans said about him
http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=ml-astros&msg=52100.1&ctx=0

really clueless and classless fools, thats why I post here

If it makes you feel any better, Rocket fans feel the same way........ but I'm after the Rudy Gay/Shane Battier thing, it doesn't sting so bad.



I did see vince young play, and he did the same thing every time on passing downs, drop back after shotgun/snap check off 2 targets watch lb's for hole to run thru. the nfl will pick up his paterns quick and lay him out. imho

On many of those though, he'd take off running, and still look downfield..... and complete big passes...... that was a big contributing factor to his effieciency rating.

Extrapolation?

Extrapolation and speculation are synonyms.[/QUOTE]

Extrapolation is speculation based on past facts.....



YA"LL would be WAY better off with BUSH.
Mario will not make the difference that BUSH will for the Saints.


?? You've got Duce, Stallworth, Joe Horn, and a better than decent tightend.... you aren't getting anything out of Bush, that you weren't getting before.....



We already have a kick returner...when he gets healthy. What was Bush's contract again? OH!!!! That's right...he hasn't signed one yet. Between Deuce and Reggie, you should have the RB's to take the load off of Bree's shoulder(s). I just don't see the Saints going anywhere this year...unless it's San Antonio.
:stirpot:


That would be cool........ but they're going to Los Angeles

edo783
07-10-2006, 08:25 AM
LOL! a known gansta???????

Yes a gangster and a gang leader in SoCal., and he has recently went to jail on an unrelated item. It has been reported by several news sources. The San Diego Telegraph is one IIRC and you could search for it.

TK_Gamer
07-10-2006, 11:22 PM
On many of those though, he'd take off running, and still look downfield..... and complete big passes...... that was a big contributing factor to his effieciency rating.



idont know about a big factor, but yes at times he showed a glimpse of what he could do. i have no doubt he will be good in the future. he runs like emmit smith , north south cutting in holes, actually waiting behind his lineman for a hole to open. scary. he could prolly play fullback if he wanted to. i just think the pros wont give him the time or comfort level he used to his advantage in texas. will take time

thunderkyss
07-11-2006, 07:06 AM
idont know about a big factor, but yes at times he showed a glimpse of what he could do. i have no doubt he will be good in the future. he runs like emmit smith , north south cutting in holes, actually waiting behind his lineman for a hole to open. scary. he could prolly play fullback if he wanted to. i just think the pros wont give him the time or comfort level he used to his advantage in texas. will take time


Well Donavan McNabb has been able to take what the NFL has given him to the NFC championship game three times, and one SuperBowl.



And I believe Vince will be better than McNumbnuts.

DocBar
07-11-2006, 08:55 AM
Well Donavan McNabb has been able to take what the NFL has given him to the NFC championship game three times, and one SuperBowl.



And I believe Vince will be better than McNumbnuts.
I hate to be picky here, but the NFC East wasn't exactly a powerhouse division those 3 years and the Bucs thumped them pretty hard. McNabb is a good QB but he's more of a pocket passer than a Michael Vick type. He's very mobile(at least he WAS) and could throw on the run, but I don't remember seeing a lot of straight up bootlegs designed purely for him to run the ball. Give the devil his due...3 Championship games and a Super Bowl is hard to ignore. Statistically speaking, of course( I had to say that for all the stats haters out there).

U4ikrob
07-12-2006, 05:27 PM
IMO Mario really was the right pick for us and he will show that in his play on the field in the years to come if he can stay healthy and continues to improve and play liek he has so far. Of course were fans, a little biased and want to support our local team for the most part. The oft-questioned FO decisions asside especially after the last few years choices are understandable. But in the end this is one choice IMO will bring some stability to this franchise and help create its identity for years to come. Bush and Young certainly would have butts in seats and sell jerseys, but like the article mentions below - Were going to be hard pressed to out-gunsling Manning and the Colts, so Management decided to flip around the equation

Here's another article from a few weeks back on Mario and the Texans that explains quite a bit and has takes from the Coach, McNair and his old roomate Demeco on the draft, the team and the future.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/texans/2006-06-20-williams-cover_x.htm

:wherewill

CloakNNNdagger
07-12-2006, 05:32 PM
Here's another story about the Mario (http://story.scout.com/a.z?s=113&p=2&c=546069) Texans pick. It plays out the Hakeem/Jordan/Sam Bowie comparison.......I think we'll take another Hakeem.:)

thunderkyss
07-12-2006, 06:34 PM
I hate to be picky here, but the NFC East wasn't exactly a powerhouse division those 3 years and the Bucs thumped them pretty hard. McNabb is a good QB but he's more of a pocket passer than a Michael Vick type. He's very mobile(at least he WAS) and could throw on the run, but I don't remember seeing a lot of straight up bootlegs designed purely for him to run the ball. Give the devil his due...3 Championship games and a Super Bowl is hard to ignore. Statistically speaking, of course( I had to say that for all the stats haters out there).

Well, getting to the NFC Championship game means beating more than just the NFC East..... three years, they beat the best of the best, making it to one superbowl. And no, you didn't see many plays designed for him to run, but at Syrycus, he wasn't much more than an option QB........ and my point, is/was that Vince was a more established passer than McNabb(and McNair, and every other running QB) coming out of college......

texan279
07-12-2006, 06:53 PM
Well, getting to the NFC Championship game means beating more than just the NFC East..... three years, they beat the best of the best, making it to one superbowl. And no, you didn't see many plays designed for him to run, but at Syrycus, he wasn't much more than an option QB........ and my point, is/was that Vince was a more established passer than McNabb(and McNair, and every other running QB) coming out of college......

McNabb set the Syracuse and Big East career records for touchdown passes (77), and he finished his college career ranked second in the school's history with 8,389 yards passing, 548 completions, 938 attempts and a 58.4 completion percentage. As a senior he ranked sixth in the nation with a 158.9 passing efficiency rating. McNair, in his senior season, passed for over 4,000 yards and had 2,000 yards rushing.


Vince Young college career stats
Year Passing Rushing
Comp Att Yards TDs Int Att Yds Avg TD
2003 84 143 1,155 6 7 135 998 7.4 11
2004 148 250 1,849 12 11 167 1,079 6.5 14
2005 212 365 3,036 26 10 155 1,050 6.8 12
Totals 444 718 6,040 44 28 457 3,127 6.8 37

thunderkyss
07-13-2006, 07:41 AM
McNair, in his senior season, passed for over 4,000 yards and had 2,000 yards rushing.


were you awake when Donavan did this??

because if you were, then nobody would be talking about Vince's 3000 passing yards, and 1000 rushing yards........even though it didn't happen in the regular season.


From Wikipedia

McNabb set the Syracuse and Big East career records for touchdown passes (77), touchdowns responsible for (96), passing yards (8,389), total offensive yards (9,950) and total offensive plays (1,403). He set the school's all-time records for total yards per game (221.1), passing efficiency (155.1) and yards per attempt (9.1). He finished his college career ranked second in the school's history with 8,389 yards passing, 548 completions, 938 attempts and a 58.4 completion percentage. Started every game during his career, compiling a 33-12 record. As a senior, led Syracuse to an Orange Bowl berth vs. Florida as he completed 157 of 251 passes (62.5%) for 2,134 yards. His 22 TD passes tied the school's single season record set by former Eagle Don McPherson (1987). Also rushed 135 times for 438 yards and 8 touchdowns.. Ranked sixth in the nation with a 158.9 passing efficiency rating and 22nd in total offense (233.8 yards per game). Tied a school record with 4 TD tosses vs. Cincinnati and accounted for 5 TDs vs. Miami (3 rushing and 2 passing). Amassed 2,892 yards in total offense in his junior season to set a school record. As a freshman, was the Big East rookie of the year and tossed a 96-yard TD pass vs. West Virginia, the longest in SU history. He redshirted in 1994.

bigbrewster2000
07-13-2006, 07:58 AM
were you awake when Donavan did this??

because if you were, then nobody would be talking about Vince's 3000 passing yards, and 1000 rushing yards........even though it didn't happen in the regular season.
Actually he said Steve Mcnair had 4000 passing and 2000 rushing his senior year, not McNabb. But, the reason why it's not talked about is 1 that was 11 years ago and 2 McNair played for Alcorn State which is 1-AA.

thunderkyss
07-13-2006, 08:02 AM
Actually he said Steve Mcnair had 4000 passing and 2000 rushing his senior year, not McNabb. But, the reason why it's not talked about is 1 that was 11 years ago and 2 McNair played for Alcorn State which is 1-AA.


ahhhh......

read the whole thing first, then open mouth.......... gotcha

real
07-13-2006, 08:11 AM
So are you all trying to say that Mcnair, and McNabb were better prospects coming out than VY ? Or even better passers ? Look at who VY played....McNair played 1-AA football...C'mon guys the odds are in VY's favor...

texan279
07-13-2006, 08:21 AM
So are you all trying to say that Mcnair, and McNabb were better prospects coming out than VY ? Or even better passers ? Look at who VY played....McNair played 1-AA football...C'mon guys the odds are in VY's favor...

The point I was trying to make was that Young was not more of an "established passer" than McNabb or McNair coming out of college.

real
07-13-2006, 08:38 AM
The point I was trying to make was that Young was not more of an "established passer" than McNabb or McNair coming out of college.

But he was...

texan279
07-13-2006, 09:11 AM
But he was...

You honestly think Young is a more established passer coming out of college than McNabb and McNair were?

Vince Young's college stats
61.8% completion percentage 6040 yards 44 TD's 28 INT's QB rating 144.92

McNabb's college stats
58.4% completion percentage 8389 yards 77 TD's 26 INT's QB rating 155.09

McNair's college stats
55.5% completion percentage 14496 yards 119 TD's 58 INT's QB rating 144.79

real
07-13-2006, 09:27 AM
You honestly think Young is a more established passer coming out of college than McNabb and McNair were?

Vince Young's college stats
61.8% completion percentage 6040 yards 44 TD's 28 INT's QB rating 144.92

McNabb's college stats
58.4% completion percentage 8389 yards 77 TD's 26 INT's QB rating 155.09


Im not going to count McNair....But McNabb Started all four years at Syracuse...And Young 2....Multiply VY's stats X2....LOL....No but seriously...He had a better completion percentage and the only reason that he didn't have as many yards and TD's is because he didn't have as many years on the filed as McNAbb...IMO, He was a better overall prospect than McNabb coming out of college....and IMO, He was the better passer...I noticed his INT's were high, but that doesn't mean much when you are winning...

thunderkyss
07-13-2006, 09:33 AM
The point I was trying to make was that Young was not more of an "established passer" than McNabb or McNair coming out of college.


Ask any coach/GM...... Vince is more advanced than either of the two coming out of college....

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/htt13312032244.widec.jpg

your stats back up my point against McNabb......
Scout.com (http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=64&p=8&c=1&yr=2006&nid=1774749)
Exploded into prominence with a national championship campaign for Texas which landed him second to Reggie Bush in Heisman Trophy voting... Unanimous Big 12 offensive player of the year... Finished with 212 completions on 325 attempts for 3,036 yards and 26 scores... Completion percentage of 65.2% helped Young to a 163.9 passing rating (third in the nation), despite ten interceptions... Passing touchdowns (26) tied a Texas school record... Averaged 6.8 yards on 155 rushing attempts to finish with 1,050 yards, leading the team and setting a Texas record for quarterbacks.
From MSN: Vince (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6448213/did/10340270)The pass efficiency rating for a quarterback who was told he couldnít throw is a nation-leading 168.6.
As a senior, led Syracuse to an Orange Bowl berth vs. Florida as he completed 157 of 251 passes (62.5%) for 2,134 yards. His 22 TD passes tied the school's single season record set by former Eagle Don McPherson (1987). Also rushed 135 times for 438 yards and 8 touchdowns.. Ranked sixth in the nation with a 158.9 passing efficiency rating

the 4000/2000 of McNair doesn't help me out, but I didn't pull the idea out of thin air........ that is what has been said about Vince since he made himself eligible for the draft.

Sure, you have your critics who totally ignore his passing stats(performance), but the guys who objectively look at him, say that he is what Michael Vick, is supposed to be..... he is now, where McNair & McNabb were two years(or so) into the NFL.....

real
07-13-2006, 09:37 AM
Im not really worried about VY...I will continue to root for him...And I have a really good feeling that he is going to make a lot of people eat crow...thats JMO...And about McNair...Thats not even a fair comparison....He played 1AA ball...which is a huge jump....Can you imagine if VY would have went to Alcorn State...C'mon......

texan279
07-13-2006, 09:48 AM
Ask any coach/GM...... Vince is more advanced than either of the two coming out of college....

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/htt13312032244.widec.jpg

your stats back up my point against McNabb......




the 4000/2000 of McNair doesn't help me out, but I didn't pull the idea out of thin air........ that is what has been said about Vince since he made himself eligible for the draft.

Sure, you have your critics who totally ignore his passing stats(performance), but the guys who objectively look at him, say that he is what Michael Vick, is supposed to be..... he is now, where McNair & McNabb were two years(or so) into the NFL.....

So why did you only compare McNabb's senior season against Young's senior season? I compared all three of their careers. One good college season doesn't guarantee he is a future NFL star. And do you have a link or quote from any coach or GM who says Vince is "more advanced" than the other two? And I thought the original topic was who the better established passer was in college...

powerfuldragon
07-13-2006, 09:49 AM
Young is good, he probably will be good. We didn't need a qb.

real
07-13-2006, 09:49 AM
So why did you only compare McNabb's senior season against Young's senior season? I compared all three of their careers. One good college season doesn't guarantee he is a future NFL star.

He only had two seasons...And it doesn't garuntee he won't be a star either...

texan279
07-13-2006, 09:50 AM
He only had two seasons...

Young started two and a half seasons.

real
07-13-2006, 09:50 AM
Young started two and a half seasons.
ok...compared to McNabb's four... He should have more TD's having played 1 1/2 seasons more...

bigbrewster2000
07-13-2006, 09:57 AM
So why did you only compare McNabb's senior season against Young's senior season? I compared all three of their careers. One good college season doesn't guarantee he is a future NFL star. And do you have a link or quote from any coach or GM who says Vince is "more advanced" than the other two? And I thought the original topic was who the better established passer was in college...
I think the original topic was how glad we all were to have Mario Williams on our team.:fireball:

texan279
07-13-2006, 09:57 AM
I think the original topic was how glad we all were to have Mario Williams on our team.:fireball:

I wasn't the one who derailed the thread, I just came in on the discussion going on.

real
07-13-2006, 10:00 AM
Ya'll didn't know?!?!?!?......Every thread turns into something it wasn't meant to be....get with the program guys...

bigbrewster2000
07-13-2006, 10:03 AM
Ya'll didn't know?!?!?!?......Every thread turns into something it wasn't meant to be....get with the program guys...
I know that I was just being a smart A**.

DocBar
07-13-2006, 10:04 AM
Ya'll didn't know?!?!?!?......Every thread turns into something it wasn't meant to be....get with the program guys...
Somebody should post the stats of the QB I will not name in this thread...you guys know who I mean.

bigbrewster2000
07-13-2006, 10:18 AM
___________ was one of the most successful athletes ever to play for _______. He was the starting quarterback during the 2000 and 2001 seasons after redshirting in 1999. Under his leadership, the ________ went 7-5 and 11-3. In his senior season the team beat Colorado, Oregon State, and Wisconsin, all members of BCS conferences. There was speculation about whether the ________ would qualify for a BCS bid, something unprecedented for a 'Mid Major' conference team. During his collegiate career _________ completed 587 of 934 passes for 7,849 yards. He threw 70 touchdowns versus 23 interceptions. __________collected many honors and awards during his final college season, most notably the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award.
Fill in the blanks for this unnamed QB and you win a prize.

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-13-2006, 10:22 AM
Fill in the blanks for this unnamed QB and you win a prize.

No one cares about David Carr's college career. I'm an LSU fan, I have never once been like "well let's talk about what LaRon Landry did in high school"

Vambo, the Marble Eye
07-13-2006, 10:37 AM
No one cares about David Carr's college career. I'm an LSU fan, I have never once been like "well let's talk about what LaRon Landry did in high school"

Did you GO to LSU? (Yes, it matters... Si vous Ítes un fanatique de tigres, avez-vous oubliť les Saints ?)

powerfuldragon
07-13-2006, 10:38 AM
http://www.redandwhitefromstate.com/images/articles/20051126135536674_1.jpg

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-13-2006, 10:42 AM
Did you GO to LSU? (Yes, it matters... Si vous Ítes un fanatique de tigres, avez-vous oubliť les Saints ?)

Yeah I went to LSU. And no i can't read french.

bigbrewster2000
07-13-2006, 10:46 AM
No one cares about David Carr's college career. I'm an LSU fan, I have never once been like "well let's talk about what LaRon Landry did in high school"
And the last time I cared about the Titans was...........yep just as I suspected , NEVER.texanpride Oh and you ruined my smart alec post. Thanks alot:mad: :D

DocBar
07-13-2006, 11:06 AM
Are Titans fans so damn lame they have to come here looking for intelligent conversation or are we just such great fans with outstanding knowledge of the game that NFL fans in general are gravitating to our website? And I was wondering how Carr's college stats looked compared to the other ones posted on this thread. Just because VY happens to be black doesn't mean he has to be compared only to other black QB's(that seems to be how it goes...maybe I'm wrong on that). John Elway and STEVE Young were 2 of the best scrambling QB's in NFL history. So was Fran Tarkington. And DC ain't no slouch at it, either.

real
07-13-2006, 11:21 AM
Are Titans fans so damn lame they have to come here looking for intelligent conversation or are we just such great fans with outstanding knowledge of the game that NFL fans in general are gravitating to our website? And I was wondering how Carr's college stats looked compared to the other ones posted on this thread. Just because VY happens to be black doesn't mean he has to be compared only to other black QB's(that seems to be how it goes...maybe I'm wrong on that). John Elway and STEVE Young were 2 of the best scrambling QB's in NFL history. So was Fran Tarkington. And DC ain't no slouch at it, either.

I think that He gets compared to Vick and McNabb because of their stlye of running...When those guys take off they can normally make amazing things happen, almost like a running back or receiver...Wheras the likes of Elway and Carr just seem to have good speed and tend to run out of bounds when the first defender shows...McNabb and McNair actually run more like that now...thats why its more of a VY/Vick thing because of HOW they run...

El Tejano
07-13-2006, 11:33 AM
And Steve Young ran kind of crash course, thus the retirement due to concussions.

CloakNNNdagger
07-13-2006, 11:39 AM
I think that He gets compared to Vick and McNabb because of their stlye of running...When those guys take off they can normally make amazing things happen, almost like a running back or receiver...Wheras the likes of Elway and Carr just seem to have good speed and tend to run out of bounds when the first defender shows...McNabb and McNair actually run more like that now...thats why its more of a VY/Vick thing because of HOW they run...

Vick and McNair during their successful years have used their feet to affect their running game.............wherease Elway and Carr have used their feet to affect their passing game.

real
07-13-2006, 11:45 AM
Vick and McNair during their successful years have used their feet to affect their running game.............wherease Elway and Carr have used their feet to affect their passing game.

I just think that they were better passers and not as good of runners...Thats all it boils down to IMO...

thunderkyss
07-13-2006, 11:48 AM
I think that He gets compared to Vick and McNabb because of their stlye of running...When those guys take off they can normally make amazing things happen, almost like a running back or receiver...Wheras the likes of Elway and Carr just seem to have good speed and tend to run out of bounds when the first defender shows...McNabb and McNair actually run more like that now...thats why its more of a VY/Vick thing because of HOW they run...


that, and if he's like me(34) and didn't get into football till '94 or something, he probably don't remember seeing Steve Young, Elway, or Montana as much of a rushing threat......... scramblers for sure, but they weren't no Randall Cunningham............ who also just happens to be black.....

DocBar
07-13-2006, 12:03 PM
that, and if he's like me(34) and didn't get into football till '94 or something, he probably don't remember seeing Steve Young, Elway, or Montana as much of a rushing threat......... scramblers for sure, but they weren't no Randall Cunningham............ who also just happens to be black.....
My 1st Oilers game was in 1975. Been a fan ever since. Steve Young and John Elway started out as as much of a running threat as a passing attack. Oppossing D's constantly had to keep a spy on them to help prevent that. They may not have been as atheletic as Vick, Cunningham or McNabb, but if they didn't see what they liked, they hauled the ball in and ran. Maybe my problem is not so much being a new fan as it is remembering how older guys from another era did it. Any of you remember watching Fran Tarkington? He could put some moves on way back in the early '70's. FWIW, I simply don't like the college style of QB play. IMO, NFL players across the board are much too atheletic for a QB to have CAREER success playing that style of offense. They would be better served to play the QB position and let RB's run the ball.
All of the QB's mentioned ended up as more traditional style QB's because the wear and tear of running the ball against NFL caliber D's is detrimental to the overall health and career longevity of anyone running the football consistantly.

real
07-13-2006, 12:25 PM
Well Anywho...I dont think people give VY enough credit...I don't think he's going to try and run as much as people think...I think he understands and knows when to run....In fact in college he wasn't as run happy as people think...A lot of times he could have ran, but waited instead for a reciever to get open...People just think he's run happy because almost evrtime he ran he ripped of 20+ yards...

bigbrewster2000
07-13-2006, 01:41 PM
Are Titans fans so damn lame they have to come here looking for intelligent conversation or are we just such great fans with outstanding knowledge of the game that NFL fans in general are gravitating to our website? And I was wondering how Carr's college stats looked compared to the other ones posted on this thread. Just because VY happens to be black doesn't mean he has to be compared only to other black QB's(that seems to be how it goes...maybe I'm wrong on that). John Elway and STEVE Young were 2 of the best scrambling QB's in NFL history. So was Fran Tarkington. And DC ain't no slouch at it, either.
Carr's Career Stats
Year G-GS Att. Comp Int Yds. Pct. TD LG
2001 14-14 533 344 9 4,839 .645 46 79
2000 12-12 349 216 12 2,729 .619 23 73
1999 Redshirted
1998 7-0 41 22 1 228 .537 1 26
1997 4-0 11 5 1 53 .455 0 19
Totals 37-26 934 587 23 7,849 .628 70 79
Here are the stats from the Fresno State web site. His senior season includes post season play. And his 2001 awards.

# Carr's 2001 Awards Johnny Unitas Award
# Football News Offensive Player of the Year
# Sammy Baugh Award
# WAC Offensive Player of the Year
# First-team All-WAC
# CNN/SI Honorable mention All-American
# Sixth player ever with at least 4,000 passing yards/40 TDs
# First in the nation in passing yards (4,308) and TDs (42)
# USA Today National Player of the Week (Oct. 3)

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-13-2006, 01:47 PM
Carr's Career Stats
Year G-GS Att. Comp Int Yds. Pct. TD LG
2001 14-14 533 344 9 4,839 .645 46 79
2000 12-12 349 216 12 2,729 .619 23 73
1999 Redshirted
1998 7-0 41 22 1 228 .537 1 26
1997 4-0 11 5 1 53 .455 0 19
Totals 37-26 934 587 23 7,849 .628 70 79
Here are the stats from the Fresno State web site. His senior season includes post season play. And his 2001 awards.

# Carr's 2001 Awards Johnny Unitas Award
# Football News Offensive Player of the Year
# Sammy Baugh Award
# WAC Offensive Player of the Year
# First-team All-WAC
# CNN/SI Honorable mention All-American
# Sixth player ever with at least 4,000 passing yards/40 TDs
# First in the nation in passing yards (4,308) and TDs (42)
# USA Today National Player of the Week (Oct. 3)

Yeah, and that does what for the Texans? Why don't you post his NFL stats? Or maybe you're a Fresno State fan and just reliving the good times? I really like Brady Quinn, I think I'm going to go brag about his high school stats....

infantrycak
07-13-2006, 01:49 PM
Yeah, and that does what for the Texans? Why don't you post his NFL stats? Or maybe you're a Fresno State fan and just reliving the good times? I really like Brady Quinn, I think I'm going to go brag about his high school stats....

Someone specifically asked for Carr's college stats and Brewster was being helpful. It's fine to have an opinion, but don't be a troll and inject useless comments everywhere please.

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-13-2006, 01:50 PM
Someone specifically asked for Carr's college stats and Brewster was being helpful. It's fine to have an opinion, but don't be a troll and inject useless comments everywhere please.

Should i PM him and let him know that www.google.com exists?

infantrycak
07-13-2006, 01:51 PM
Should i PM him and let him know that www.google.com exists?

If the person who responded didn't mind doing it, why should you care? [note--rhetorical question]

bigbrewster2000
07-13-2006, 01:57 PM
Hey DocBar did you get those stats? Someone was puting unwanted "TACKS" in front of my posts.

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-13-2006, 01:59 PM
These aren't the droids you are looking for.

bigbrewster2000
07-13-2006, 02:02 PM
These aren't the droids you are looking for.
I am a Texan fan your "Tacky" mind tricks don't work on me.

bigbrewster2000
07-13-2006, 02:03 PM
Carr's Career Stats
Year G-GS Att. Comp Int Yds. Pct. TD LG
2001 14-14 533 344 9 4,839 .645 46 79
2000 12-12 349 216 12 2,729 .619 23 73
1999 Redshirted
1998 7-0 41 22 1 228 .537 1 26
1997 4-0 11 5 1 53 .455 0 19
Totals 37-26 934 587 23 7,849 .628 70 79
Here are the stats from the Fresno State web site. His senior season includes post season play. And his 2001 awards.

# Carr's 2001 Awards Johnny Unitas Award
# Football News Offensive Player of the Year
# Sammy Baugh Award
# WAC Offensive Player of the Year
# First-team All-WAC
# CNN/SI Honorable mention All-American
# Sixth player ever with at least 4,000 passing yards/40 TDs
# First in the nation in passing yards (4,308) and TDs (42)
# USA Today National Player of the Week (Oct. 3)
bump

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-13-2006, 02:04 PM
I am a Texan fan your "Tacky" mind tricks don't work on me.

Scruffy Lookin Nerf Herder

DocBar
07-13-2006, 02:12 PM
Hey DocBar did you get those stats? Someone was puting unwanted "TACKS" in front of my posts.
Yeah, I got 'em. Thanks for humoring my laziness. Sorry to all those offended by that.

DocBar
07-13-2006, 02:14 PM
Yeah, and that does what for the Texans? Why don't you post his NFL stats? Or maybe you're a Fresno State fan and just reliving the good times? I really like Brady Quinn, I think I'm going to go brag about his high school stats....
Maybe you're a blowhard who can go sit on a "tacks" site and be a troll. You're on our turf. Go take a powder or something.

bigbrewster2000
07-13-2006, 02:18 PM
Yeah, I got 'em. Thanks for humoring my laziness. Sorry to all those offended by that.
Do you really care if a Titan fan is miffed? He can't really hurt my feelings. Especially after we sweep the floor with them this year. Back onto the off topic topic:rolleyes: His passing #'s are great comparably. And although his running #'s aren't posted they weren't nearly a good as the other 3. I think he had like 150 or something his senior year.

Titan "Tack" Fan
07-13-2006, 02:20 PM
I,M glad also... Thanks for Reggie:bananasplit:

I'll be in New Orleans this weekend. My 2nd Fave city in America (behind NYC)

I'm so glad you guys got Reggie, i'd hate to see him twice a year!! congrats

DocBar
07-13-2006, 02:20 PM
I,M glad also... Thanks for Reggie:bananasplit:
NOT a problem. Glad we could help.

DocBar
07-13-2006, 02:22 PM
Do you really care if a Titan fan is miffed? He can't really hurt my feelings. Especially after we sweep the floor with them this year. Back onto the off topic topic:rolleyes: His passing #'s are great comparably. And although his running #'s aren't posted they weren't nearly a good as the other 3. I think he had like 150 or something his senior year.
:offtopic LMAO

The Pencil Neck
07-13-2006, 08:36 PM
Any of you remember watching Fran Tarkington? He could put some moves on way back in the early '70's.

Oh, hell, yeah. I remember him both as a Giant and as a Viking. What was great about Fran was that he didn't run past the line of scrimmage. :) He only ran from sideline to sideline waiting for his receivers to open up.

TexansLucky13
07-13-2006, 08:47 PM
Oh, hell, yeah. I remember him both as a Giant and as a Viking. What was great about Fran was that he didn't run past the line of scrimmage. :) He only ran from sideline to sideline waiting for his receivers to open up.

He got the tar sacked out of him each time he made it to the SB, though. :rolleyes: