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TEXANS84
07-04-2006, 12:06 AM
I thought it would be an interesting debate to see who you think will have the most sacks this season with going to the 4-3 defense.

Vote responsibly.

TexansSeminole
07-04-2006, 12:08 AM
Antwaan Peek

Brandon420tx
07-04-2006, 12:22 AM
Jason Babin

South Texan
07-04-2006, 12:23 AM
Why wasn't David Carr on the list?

He is in every other thread!! (Whoops... he's in this one now!) :stirpot:


My prediction:
Until Mario get's used to double and triple teaming, Peek-A-Boom could easily grab the sack lead early on with his non-stop motor, and have several on his heels by the end of the season.

I also predict the Defense is really gonna be fun to watch this year.

Texans86
07-04-2006, 12:23 AM
The great Babino

AFD1717
07-04-2006, 12:32 AM
If it isn't Mario by a long shot, we're going to be forced to listen to the "Bet they wish they had that pick back" talk all season long. Maybe for the next 10 years.

South Texan
07-04-2006, 12:52 AM
If it isn't Mario by a long shot, we're going to be forced to listen to the "Bet they wish they had that pick back" talk all season long. Maybe for the next 10 years.

Well, if Mario ties up several defenders so that the overall production of the D-Line increases they can say that all they want. Like I put in another thread, think Reggie or VY will take their teams to the Super Bowl this year?.

There was some great talent in the draft this year and I think in retrospect (like many others) that Mario was the best fit for what we needed for the team. :redtowel:

thunderkyss
07-04-2006, 01:01 AM
Why wasn't David Carr on the list?

He is in every other thread!! (Whoops... he's in this one now!) :stirpot:




Mother.......... fu.....

stole my darn line.

In that case, I'm voting for TJ......

mexican_texan
07-04-2006, 02:06 AM
I see Mario leading the team in sacks this season, he learned how to get through cut blocks, he has speed and power, and he's playing alongside Payne, who is used to taking up two blockers, and Weaver, who should be like another DE next to Mario. Late in the season, when I expect teams to double or triple team Mario, TJ or Weaver may get plenty of sacks or QB pressures.

Nice to finally see the Bull Pen though, instead of just the David Carr section...but I bet this somehow turns into a Carr thread though...like how he caused around 38 sacks last year.

AggieTexanFan
07-04-2006, 03:35 AM
as more attention shifts to Williams, Ryans will fly in and blind side the hell outta the QBs all season long

TK_Gamer
07-04-2006, 05:51 AM
you dont have weaver on the list, id say weaver or babin
idont think teams are gonna give mario alot of angles he'll have a tough time but ryans could also get his chances depends on how often we use 2-3-6 and nickel sets

HOOK'EM
07-04-2006, 05:59 AM
Super Mario, the first in Texans history with double digit sacks!

Corrosion
07-04-2006, 09:50 AM
I think it will be Babin . He's returning to his natural position and will likely start opposite Mario , probably wont see a lot of double teams with Mario on the other side .

Obviously Mario Williams is going to see a lot of double teams which will limit his overall numbers but create opportunity for other's to make plays one on one.

I dont think Peek is going to see the field enough to lead the team in sacks . I expect him to be a backup behind Babin at DE and Ryans / Greenwood at LB .

I do expect Payne to have a much better season than any he's had (Stat Wise) simply because he will be attacking instead of just trying to tie up blockers , but I dont see him leading the team in sacks from the DT position .
.
Travis Johnson ..... He's probably a back-up at best with the quality of D-Linemen the Texans have this year . Is he a DT or DE ? .... I wonder if he knows the answer ? I suspect he will see time at both positions .

Morlon Greenwood and Demecco Ryans will likely be the starters at the OLB's . They could both put up good numbers considering their speed .

nunusguy
07-04-2006, 10:14 AM
If either Babin or Peek get the majority of the playing time including 3rd down
and other passing situations, I gotta cast my vote with that guy, whichever
one it might be.
The weakside DE in the 4-3 has the natural advantage to be the leader in
this stat over the strongside guy, and since Mario will be a 21 year old NFL rookie, its gonna take some time for him to negotiate the transition from
college ball and all that goes with it.

Hulk75
07-04-2006, 10:17 AM
Shoot Mario.....................He better right Reggie.:cool:

JK NO doubt he will lead our team with sacks..............Consider te NFL Rookie Sack record to go to Mario.

Kaiser Toro
07-04-2006, 10:20 AM
I went with Mario, but felt awfullly compelled to hit Babin. Whoever is opposite Mario should be able to put up some numbers.

AFD1717
07-04-2006, 11:12 AM
Well, if Mario ties up several defenders so that the overall production of the D-Line increases they can say that all they want. Like I put in another thread, think Reggie or VY will take their teams to the Super Bowl this year?.

There was some great talent in the draft this year and I think in retrospect (like many others) that Mario was the best fit for what we needed for the team. :redtowel:
I'm not a Mario hater, but tying up several blockers won't get him on Sportscenter. Mario could dominate an entire game by forcing the offense to account for him on every play, but if he doesn't get a sack in that game and Bush gets 27 yards on 12 carries but happens to return a punt for a TD - the trolls will be out. Not that I really care, I'm just making an observation.

real
07-04-2006, 11:17 AM
No doubt it will be J.Bab

Hulk75
07-04-2006, 11:23 AM
No doubt it will be J.Bab
NO doubt.........Wow.

MorKnolle
07-04-2006, 11:53 AM
Why wasn't David Carr on the list?

He is in every other thread!! (Whoops... he's in this one now!) :stirpot:


My prediction:
Until Mario get's used to double and triple teaming, Peek-A-Boom could easily grab the sack lead early on with his non-stop motor, and have several on his heels by the end of the season.

I also predict the Defense is really gonna be fun to watch this year.

I think it is the opposite, until other teams learn that they have to double and triple team Mario he is going to tear them up, then once they start really focusing on him it will open things up for Peek/Babin, whoever is playing the majority of the time on the weakside. Orr should also get a decent amount of sacks from the SLB position. I think Mario will definitely lead our DLine in tackles and probably in sacks, if he draws a ton of attention and if they decide to play him inside at DT frequently on passing situations then Peek or Babin could end up leading the team, depending on who gets more playing time between the two. I'm not at all convinced Babin will be on the field more than Peek, and I still see Peek as the better pressure rusher between the two that will get more sacks relative to the number of plays he's on the field.

Shoot Mario.....................He better right Reggie.:cool:

JK NO doubt he will lead our team with sacks..............Consider te NFL Rookie Sack record to go to Mario.

I can definitely see him setting the rookie sack record.

powerfuldragon
07-04-2006, 11:57 AM
Babin. Mario's but a rookie yet. He'll have his sacks soon enough, though.

MorKnolle
07-04-2006, 12:21 PM
Babin. Mario's but a rookie yet. He'll have his sacks soon enough, though.

Jevon Kearse and Julius Peppers both enjoyed career-high sack numbers in their rookie seasons that they have yet to surpass after 6 and 3 more seasons, respectively (not to mention Peppers had his 12 sacks in only 12 games). Peppers was a little inconsistent early on as 4 of his first 6 games he had 0 sacks but the other two games he had 3 sacks in each contest, then he got more consistent the rest of the year. Jevon Kearse had his best year in terms of sacks his rookie year, then his 2nd best sack total, then his 3rd best sack total and hasn't gotten 10 sacks in a season since. Dwight Freeney also only had 3 total sacks in his first 7 games then had 9 sacks over his next 9 games to finish his rookie campaign with 13. I don't know why everyone thinks Mario will struggle just because he's a rookie, frequently DEs have very good numbers their rookie years before opposing teams have a chance to figure them out and game plan for them. I think Mario is easily as talented as Peppers, Freeney, or Kearse coming out of school and I don't expect him to have any less success than these guys had their rookie seasons, especially with a new defensive scheme for us that opposing teams might not be as ready for early in the year. I have seen Babin and Peek play for 2 and 3 seasons and from what I've seen out of both I don't expect Babin to ever get more than 10 sacks, and Peek I can see being similar to Robert Mathis for Indy (although he is a lot bigger) and get 10-12 sacks a year if he plays starter's minutes.

If you changed the question around to who will cause the most sacks, Mario is easily the choice there. He will likely create a lot more sacks than he will actually get credit for finishing off.

South Texan
07-04-2006, 12:25 PM
I think it is the opposite, until other teams learn that they have to double and triple team Mario he is going to tear them up, then once they start really focusing on him it will open things up for Peek/Babin, whoever is playing the majority of the time on the weakside. Orr should also get a decent amount of sacks from the SLB position.

I was thinking the same way too at first and really do hope you are right, but then I started thinking the Defense last year didn't exactly strike fear into the other guys hearts. With all the hype Mario is getting and his obvious talent, I can see a scenario where they may be thinking shut down the kid and no worries. Either way, Mario is going to cause hurries and sacks this year, wether he is the one in the QB's face or he makes it possible for someone else to dance the Quarterback Crunch. :crutch:

Scary thought for the day: You are the blocking FB protecting your QB. Mario is heading at you with a full head of steam!:shocked

Hutch13
07-04-2006, 12:28 PM
Mario Williams the guys a beast at 6'7 285 who has outstanding speed :fireball: but i think demeco will be not far behind

Kaiser Toro
07-04-2006, 12:38 PM
All I want for Christmas is Peyton's two front teeth. :)

MorKnolle
07-04-2006, 12:39 PM
Mario Williams the guys a beast at 6'7 285 who has outstanding speed :fireball: but i think demeco will be not far behind

I don't really expect DeMeco to get a ton of sacks, for one I'm not sure how much he'll be in the game throughout the year (I don't think he'll start but I think he'll see a lot of time on nickel formations on passing downs, so he could get some sacks there), but I also don't know how much they'll blitz with him, a lot of that depends on what LB spot he is playing. It seemed like they will rush their SLB a decent amount from the practice I saw, but I don't know about the MLB and WLB, which are the two positions Ryans is more suited to play.

TexanFan881
07-04-2006, 02:31 PM
I'd like to see Mario have the honor, but watch Greenwood. I think he will have a lot better of a year than he did last year.

AFD1717
07-04-2006, 05:13 PM
All I want for Christmas is Peyton's two front teeth. :)
Love it.

HOU-TEX
07-05-2006, 11:46 AM
I'm actually hoping that several of our front seven have a hand in the sack jar. That being said, I think Mario should come away with the most by a small margin just because he's a mammoth that hopefully is very fast around the outside.:superman:

HJam72
07-05-2006, 11:52 AM
I'm actually hoping that several of our front seven have a hand in the sack jar.

I certainly hope so. :)

wrestler4life
07-05-2006, 12:40 PM
Why wasn't David Carr on the list?

He is in every other thread!! (Whoops... he's in this one now!) :stirpot:


My prediction:
Until Mario get's used to double and triple teaming, Peek-A-Boom could easily grab the sack lead early on with his non-stop motor, and have several on his heels by the end of the season.
Yeah, or he could give up some huge runs by not reading the line and overpursuing.:shoot:

trane
07-05-2006, 03:28 PM
I agree that it will be Babin. The trend is that one good pass rusher can free up others on the D line. I think Mario will cause a lot of QB "hurries" and maybe get a few knockdowns.

DocBar
07-05-2006, 04:13 PM
If it isn't Mario by a long shot, we're going to be forced to listen to the "Bet they wish they had that pick back" talk all season long. Maybe for the next 10 years.
At least we diddn't use it on VY. THAT would have been worse than...asking Ryan Leaf to come out of "retirement". Why not add something PRODUCTIVE,gripe about current moves, etc... instead of whining about things that are said and done?

AFD1717
07-05-2006, 05:56 PM
At least we diddn't use it on VY. THAT would have been worse than...asking Ryan Leaf to come out of "retirement". Why not add something PRODUCTIVE,gripe about current moves, etc... instead of whining about things that are said and done?

Read the entire thread before you bash me. I like the fact that we took Mario and I stated pretty clearly in post number 17 of this thread that I was making an observation about what the rest of the country will think of us despite the fact that Mario will turn out to be the better player. That's called looking at the future in my book, not whining about things that are said and done. I'll make my own decisions about what is PRODUCTIVE. Do your homework.

Porky
07-05-2006, 06:29 PM
Let's put it this way. Mario BETTER lead the team in sacks.

Double Barrel
07-05-2006, 06:34 PM
I picked Mario out of optimism. Looks like I'm not alone with 62 votes at this point. :thumbup

MorKnolle
07-05-2006, 11:20 PM
Out of curiosity, who in the world picked N.D. Kalu (at best a 2nd string DE) and Robaire Smith (a DT that likely will not be a starter and isn't exactly a sack machine anyways)?

mexican_texan
07-06-2006, 12:16 AM
Out of curiosity, who in the world picked N.D. Kalu (at best a 2nd string DE) and Robaire Smith (a DT that likely will not be a starter and isn't exactly a sack machine anyways)?
Well, ND Kalu went to Rice, so there's the homer factor.

threetoedpete
07-06-2006, 02:38 AM
I'm not a Mario hater, but tying up several blockers won't get him on Sportscenter. Mario could dominate an entire game by forcing the offense to account for him on every play, but if he doesn't get a sack in that game and Bush gets 27 yards on 12 carries but happens to return a punt for a TD - the trolls will be out. Not that I really care, I'm just making an observation.

Agreed.
I picked Mario. But I hope It's Babin. Course a week befor the draft I thought tinkerbell butt was a lock for the number 1. Here's hoping for a bunch of third and longs and oportunities for sacks for everyone. Cheers.

HOU-TEX
07-06-2006, 11:03 AM
Agreed.
I picked Mario. But I hope It's Babin. Course a week befor the draft I thought tinkerbell butt was a lock for the number 1. Here's hoping for a bunch of third and longs and oportunities for sacks for everyone. Cheers.

I'm kinda expecting more from Babin this year myself. I don't know why but I think he has a chance to shine this year as long as he stays healthy. I used to like Peek over Babin, but after last year Babin just seems to have better football knowledge. IMO

Lucky
07-06-2006, 12:36 PM
1st round 4-3 DE rookie sack totals (since '98)

Andre Wadsworth - ARI - 5
Grant Wistrom - STL - 3
Greg Ellis - DAL - 3
Jevon Kearse - TEN - 14.5
Ebenezer Ekuban - DAL - 2.5
Lamar King - SEA - 2
Dimitrius Underwood - MIN - 0
Patrick Kerney - ATL - 2.5
Courtney Brown - CLE - 4.5
Shaun Ellis - NYJ - 8.5
John Abraham - NYJ - 4.5
Erik Flowers - BUF - 2
Justin Smith - CIN - 8.5
Andre Carter - SF - 6.5
Jamal Reynolds - GB - 2
Julius Peppers - CAR - 12
Dwight Freeney - IND - 13
Bryan Thomas - NYJ - 0.5
Charles Grant - NO - 7
Michael Haynes - CHI - 2
Jerome McDougle - PHI - 0
Calvin Pace - ARI - 1
Will Smith - NO - 7.5
Kenechi Udeze - MIN - 5
Erasmus James - MIN - 4

A mixed bag. 3 guys with 12+ sacks, 8 with 2 or less. But, should Mario really be compared to all of these guys? Peppers, Bruce Smith, Reggie White, and maybe Neil Smith are the only DEs who've come into the league in the past 25 years with the physical ability Williams possesses. And both Smiths failed to put up double digit sacks as rookies.

Both Peppers & White played on talented lines as rookies. A case could be made that Mario played with more talent in college last year than he'll line up with as a rookie. Plus, how well the Texans play the run will have a bearing on how often Williams & Co. will be able to pin their ears back and rush the passer. Not to mention, Mario may line up at DT in some nickel situations. All of that will have an impact on just how many sacks Williams will administer. Really, I don't think it matters if Mario comes up with 7 or 17 sacks, as long as the Texans pass rush is much improved.

HOU-TEX
07-06-2006, 12:50 PM
1
A mixed bag. 3 guys with 12+ sacks, 8 with 2 or less. But, should Mario really be compared to all of these guys? Peppers, Bruce Smith, Reggie White, and maybe Neil Smith are the only DEs who've come into the league in the past 25 years with the physical ability Williams possesses. And both Smiths failed to put up double digit sacks as rookies.

Both Peppers & White played on talented lines as rookies. A case could be made that Mario played with more talent in college last year than he'll line up with as a rookie. Plus, how well the Texans play the run will have a bearing on how often Williams & Co. will be able to pin their ears back and rush the passer. Not to mention, Mario may line up at DT in some nickel situations. All of that will have an impact on just how many sacks Williams will administer. Really, I don't think it matters if Mario comes up with 7 or 17 sacks, as long as the Texans pass rush is much improved.

That's my feeling to the tee. Most will probably say for the money he's being paid he should be the sack leader. The way I look at it is, the four down linemen work as one. If one get's doubled then one of the others has a better chance of getting to the QB.:twocents:

DocBar
07-06-2006, 01:29 PM
I can definitely see him setting the rookie sack record.
I want to see him get the SINGLE SEASON sack record!!! Why aim low?

jerek
07-06-2006, 02:33 PM
Bennie Joppru.

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out how much David Carr sucks. If he'd just cut his hair, stop going to church, divorce his wife, sell his children, take up alcoholism, get smerter with the fotball!!1 and deliberately disfigure his face with a dull stone, he'd be a real leader.

DocBar
07-06-2006, 02:34 PM
Bennie Joppru.

I'd like to take this opportunity to point out how much David Carr sucks. If he'd just cut his hair, stop going to church, divorce his wife, sell his children, take up alcoholism, get smerter with the fotball!!1 and deliberately disfigure his face with a dull stone, he'd be a real leader.
So what are you getting at? Don't hold back any!!! Tell us what you really think!!! LOL

jerek
07-06-2006, 02:38 PM
A mixed bag. 3 guys with 12+ sacks, 8 with 2 or less. But, should Mario really be compared to all of these guys? Peppers, Bruce Smith, Reggie White, and maybe Neil Smith are the only DEs who've come into the league in the past 25 years with the physical ability Williams possesses. And both Smiths failed to put up double digit sacks as rookies.

Both Peppers & White played on talented lines as rookies. A case could be made that Mario played with more talent in college last year than he'll line up with as a rookie. Plus, how well the Texans play the run will have a bearing on how often Williams & Co. will be able to pin their ears back and rush the passer. Not to mention, Mario may line up at DT in some nickel situations. All of that will have an impact on just how many sacks Williams will administer. Really, I don't think it matters if Mario comes up with 7 or 17 sacks, as long as the Texans pass rush is much improved.

On a more serious note, Lucky's answer covers it well. Defensive playcalling and teammates will factor into any one player's ability to get sacks. I think Mario Williams will command serious attention as a pass rusher. This alone should free up other blitzers and contribute to defensive efficiency, but won't necessarily be noted in Mario's stat column.

Man, football season can't come soon enough. Hello, legitimacy. Meet competitiveness. I for one am excited.